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NFL office losing credibility - Harrison fined again...



I don't use the word outrage very often.  And I've generally felt that those that feel our team is being picked on with the recent fines and flags are reaching a bit.  However, today's fine of $25,000 levied against James Harrison is truly an egregious blunder by the league office that has me outraged and I've lost a great deal of respect for the NFL office.  My rationale after the jump...

Star-divide

Let me first say that I think the commissioner handled the Michael Vick situation very well, and I give him high marks in general for his handling of off-the-field player conduct issues.  That is why I am so disappointed and stunned that the league office is making such a mess of their discipline policy for what occurs ON the field.

Here are the facts as we know them:  James Harrison is fined $25000 for a roughing the passer penalty that occurred between the whistles in Buffalo.  The penalty itself was debatable, and the fact that he got a fine at all is proof that he is a marked man with a zero tolerance policy working against him.  The fine was levied at this amount due to his "repeat offenses". 

Andre Johnson and Courtland Finnegan were also fined $25,000 for their fight this weekend which resulted in ejections from the game.  This came one week after Richard Seymour's cheap shot well after the whistle also drew a $25,000 fine and an ejection. 

The NFL is making it up as it goes along with the fines and punishment for what happens between the whistles, but apparently has a process in place to address what happens after the whistle.  This is what we've heard reported in response to all this.  I call BS on having an undefined policy that governs the league fines and punishment for what actually occurs DURING play, between the whistles when everyone is going full speed and acting on instinct, vs. having a set policy with an escalating scale of punishment for what happens AFTER the whistle, when players CHOOSE to hit, pile on, cheap shot or punch another player.  The league either needs to have a "shoot from the hip" approach to all discipline, or a set, defined scale of punishment  for all conduct matters.  They can't have both, as we have now, because it creates this massive incongruity between the two policies. At a minimum here, I say switch the approaches on this:  set a policy with defined discipline for what occurs during play, but keep the punishment and fines open ended for what occurs after the whistle, where a player makes a decision to go after someone.  To me, that is a worse offense worthy of higher consequences.

The result of these two different approaches is injustice and a very bad message reflecting on the NFL.  A player who is giving his all and acting on instinct and years of training gets an arbitrary fine for action that occurs during the normal conduct of the game.  At the same time, players who throw punches and get involved in fights or make cheap shots, occurring well after the whistle and having nothing to do with playing football, get the same fine, or even less (Harrison's fine for a football hit in the Browns game was $75,000)?  These fighting players made a conscious decision to take an aggressive act against another player - this is not a football move. 

How can the league justify the same punishment for a player PLAYING the game vs. players who act completely outside the context of the game by throwing punches, etc.?  Oh that's right  - its because there are two separate processes for how this is handled.  Here's my thought on that - cowards hide behind policies. It takes courage and leadership to recognize and correct injustice.  These two different approaches are bad for the game, and discredit the league.  NFL office - Mr. Commissioner - fix this mess.  You are inviting a rash of fights and cheap shots.  I don't think the intent of the office was to water down the aggressive play between the whistles while substituting that for more aggression after the whistle, but that is where this is headed. 

Think about it like this - what would happen if Buddy Ryan's Eagles were playing the Cowboys this Sunday given what we've just seen unfold in the league in the last few weeks?  One of the Cowboys best players gets his face smashed in by an Eagles practice squad player...and for the mere cost of $25000 and an ejection from the game. 

If Jack Lambert were playing today he would end up paying the NFL each week to play in the games, because every one of his hits and tackles were vicious.  And legal.

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Do you really think Godell even "reviewed" any of JH's hits?

If you buy a foreign made product you give money to a person who will not be buying an American made product that you get paid to make. Think about it next time you're at the store.

by SNW on Nov 30, 2010 6:20 PM EST reply actions  

The real question is

did any of the zebras “review” any of Harrison’s hits? Seems to me like they have the flag out before contact is made.

by BamaBlacknGold on Dec 1, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

The zebras were so quick on the draw

because he lowered his head before contact was made. I bet the official saw that and knew immediately to throw the flag. Also, I watched it in slow-mo and the flag is thrown just after the hit.

by Zephae on Dec 1, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Still a little sketchy

for an official to be reaching for a flag before contact is made shows a bias in my eyes.

by BamaBlacknGold on Dec 1, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but I bet

it’s a result of the “when in doubt, flag” aspect of the rule. The officials interpret that as “if you see any helmet-to-QB contact, flag” and the next logical step is to ready the flag before the hit is made.

by Zephae on Dec 1, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

WHEN 92...

… is seen coming in unblocked, or without his head being tornoff by the facemask,
zebras just go for the flag immediately because they have GODell’s directive & permission.

I mentioned elsewhere Sunday evening that I saw that ref holding the flag as Harrison made the hit, it’s replay proof…

“Upon review of the play, the ruling in the stands is confirmed, Harrison is Godell’s pet project – $25K and an automatic 1st down”

Go To -ell GODell.

See the protest plans in the post; http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2010/11/30/1847983/the-terrible-dress#53282783

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 1, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

the whole thing is just really sad

A few years ago it would be inconceivable to think my NFL fandom would fade. But the first time the Steelers lose a game from this horsepucky, or god forbid a playoff game, I will probably stroke out. If I survive, I don’t know how I’ll be able to be passionate about this league.

I can feel my passion fading… This league is not FAIR. And while this is going on I get to read people’s opinions on how the Steelers cheat and are favored by the league.

Such a shame.

"I don't want to injure anybody," James Harrison said. "But I'm not opposed to hurting anybody."

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Nov 30, 2010 6:39 PM EST reply actions  

I was pretty outraged by all this

The fact that a flag was even thrown on the play was ridiculous to me as it was a clear sign that the NFL is officiating one player differently from everyone else. The fact that he got fined just as much as two guys who got into a fight during a game and the same amount as another guy who clocked a QB after a TD for no reason is absolutely absurd.

Did anyone see Tomlin’s quotes on the matter though? When asked if the fine was fair, he said, "Man, life isn’t fair. I’m not concerned about fairness. I’m really not. I’m concerned about preparing for the Baltimore Ravens." What a man. I love our coach.
Link: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-steelers-harrisonfined

by Superstar25 on Nov 30, 2010 6:48 PM EST reply actions  

"
“Man, life isn’t fair. I’m not concerned about fairness. I’m really not. I’m concerned about preparing for the Baltimore Ravens.”

Yep that’s what I kept saying over the weeks this season but it’s getting out of hand.

"I don't want to injure anybody," James Harrison said. "But I'm not opposed to hurting anybody."

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Nov 30, 2010 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

He's playing the politician there

gotta respect that. We get to see clips of other team’s coaches going the wrong way about it with the media, and we get to laugh. Besides “raising hell..”()erg, he had me excited), Tomlin’s been cold and calculating in his pressers. I have to believe, behind closed doors, it’s a lil different conversation

"We didn't worry about the calls," Harrison said. "When you're getting a lot of penalties against you, it brings you together."

by kick him in the head on Nov 30, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

hey I'm not complaining about what Tomlin said

it’s the right thing to say. I was lamenting my own complaints, mostly the ones in my head. I try not to get too whiny about this garbage or it could spiral out of hand. Because it is crazy what’s happening.

"I don't want to injure anybody," James Harrison said. "But I'm not opposed to hurting anybody."

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Nov 30, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Definately!

Behind closed doors he ripping the league up and down, and telling the team to keep it up and turn it up. F the league and the fines. Just do your job. Tomlin has to say the things he does- because you cant go against the league publically, and doesnt want to draw additional attention to the team or Harrison.

by B. M on Dec 1, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

It's only a matter of time before they give ol' Roger the axe!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/fire-roger-goodell/

SIGN IT!

Some people think football is a matter of life and death...I assure you, it's much more serious than that."

-Bill Shanky

by Blitz-burgh on Nov 30, 2010 6:56 PM EST reply actions  

I'll add to this

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nflhardhits/

Xbox Live Gamertag - IMIeursault currently MW2 and Madden 11.

Official BTSC representative in the Xbox Live Online Franshise 2010.

http://www.youtube.com/user/infamousxBouncers sub to it for commentary's of the games in the online franchise aswell as other Madden and Call of Duty gameplay.

by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Nov 30, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

GOT THIS ONE TOO...

… don’t forget to leave GODell a message!

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 1, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

DID IT...

… NO TEE-SHIRTS?

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 1, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Harrison led with his helmet, into Fitz’s chest. I’ve heard it described as a helmet to chin hit, and if that happened the flag and fine are justifiable (based on the way the league has enforced hits this season). However I don’t see it conclusively, and during the game there was only one angle shown. Announcer Solomon Wilcots was quick to point out the helmet to chin.

The NFL doesn’t have a clear policy on roughing the passer and it seems like the Steelers are getting more than their fair share. I have NFL Rewind, and I’m going to spend a little time looking at the way it’s enforced throughout the league; before that, I can’t really say that I know the Steelers are being targeted.

by prophicide on Nov 30, 2010 7:07 PM EST reply actions  

not to mention

The ref that threw the flag was BEHIND the QB. Therefore there’s no way he was certain Harrison made initial contact with Fitzpatrick with his helmet. Everyone and their mother could see that flag came out fast….real fast. Whether he actually did or didn’t…how in the hell could a ref objectively make that kind of call, that fast? Total BS.

"I was in the right place at the right time. It was zone coverage, and he ran through my zone...That was a good, clean, legal hit. I put my head across the bow. To be honest, I laid off him a little bit. I could have put a lot more into him." -James Harrison on the Massaquoi hit

On the Cribbs hit: "I thought Cribbs was asleep," Harrison said. "A hit like that geeks you up, especially when you find out the guy is not really hurt, he's just sleeping. He's knocked out but he's going to be OK."

by count'em_six on Nov 30, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

and he threw the flag the same instant Deebo hit Fitz

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Its too bad that NHL is taken because the National Football League has become the National Hypocrite League" Mark Schlereth
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Dec 1, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

+100

He was reaching for a flag as Harrison was approaching. BS BS BS

by B. M on Dec 1, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Let us know the results of your research

Some people think football is a matter of life and death...I assure you, it's much more serious than that."

-Bill Shanky

by Blitz-burgh on Nov 30, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Solomon Wilcots

Also referred to Mike Wallace as Mike Williams for like a minute and said it like 6 times.. Hes a moron

by Mechem on Nov 30, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

At my house we all had a great time pointing out how dumb that idiot is.

“Rott-less-Burger”

by docsteeler on Dec 1, 2010 5:53 AM EST up reply actions  

i can tolerate that.

Some accents dont pronounce TH correctly.

But yeah he was pretty bad. Terrible replay work too. Seems like we’ve had bad broadcast teams the last few weeks.

by Mechem on Dec 1, 2010 9:12 AM EST up reply actions  

well..

As an english teacher I just know a lot of people grow up in different parts and there are subtleties that dont always conform to the norm.

We say haas instead of ’how’se for instance. My dad still goes aaaa instead of owww for almost everything.

by Mechem on Dec 1, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8 (Unnecessary roughness) in the NFL rulebook

(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily. Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures, including but not limited to:

(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; or

(2) Lowering the head and violently or unnecessarily making forcible contact with the “hairline” or forehead part of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body; or

(3) “Launching” (springing forward and upward) into a defenseless player, or otherwise striking him in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet or facemask to forcibly strike the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the defenseless player’s neck. (Examples: a defender buries his facemask into a defenseless player’s high chest area, but the defender’s trajectory as he leaps into the defenseless player causes the defender’s helmet to strike the defenseless player violently in the head or face; or a defender, using a face-on posture or with his head slightly lowered, hits a defenseless player in an area below the defenseless player’s neck, then the defender’s head moves upward, resulting in strong contact by the defender’s mask or helmet with the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face [an example is the so-called “dip and rip” technique]).

Note: The provisions of section (f) do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or noncrown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on an opponent.

(g) if the initial force of the contact by a defender’s helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder is to the head or neck area of a defenseless player.

Note: Defenseless players in (f) and (g) shall include (i) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (ii) a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass; (iii) a runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (iv) a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; and (v) a player on the ground at the end of a play.

h) If a receiver has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself, a defensive player is prohibited from launching (springing forward and upward) into him in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm to forcibly strike the receiver’s head or neck area—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm is lower than the receiver’s neck.

Note: Launching is defined as springing forward and upward by a player who leaves his feet to make contact on the receiver.

(i) a kicker/punter, who is standing still or fading backwards after the ball has been kicked, is out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the receiving team through the end of the play or until he assumes a distinctly defensive position. During the kick or during the return, if the initial force of the contact by a defender’s helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder is to the head or neck area of the kicker/punter, it is a foul.

(j) any player who grabs a helmet opening of an opponent and forcibly twists, turns, or pulls his head.

(k) Illegal contact with the helmet against the knee of the snapper during an attempt for a field goal or kick try.

Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be flagrant.

Note: If in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactics, the covering official(s) should always call unnecessary roughness.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Seemed like the incidental helmet contact

Is what got it called, BUT he did lead with the helmet.

Its just a stupid rule. Why CANT you hit a dude in the body with your helmet?

by Mechem on Dec 1, 2010 9:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Incidental would be like when someone is already going down...

And your helmet strikes there’s. Like the Josh Cribbs hit that Harrison was not fined for (although you wouldn’t know that in listening to the way ot was covered).

If the league thinks certain contact is avoidable, you better avoid it I guess.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Or like

How in this hit I think he grazed Fitzy’s Facemask with the tip of his head. Incidental, but it gets the call more often than not these days.

by Mechem on Dec 1, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Any chance this can be read online?

by axiomatic on Dec 1, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

It is tough to find...

I got this off of SteelerFury I think, I can’t remember.

I posted it when Harrison was fined 75k, but no one commented on it.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Its up on NFL's website

I’m too lazy to look at the moment but i’ve flipped thru it before

by Mechem on Dec 1, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ve seen sections like this never the whole thing. But if you say it’s there I’ll take another look.

by axiomatic on Dec 1, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/"hairline" parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily.

Do you think it was violent or unnecessary? And how can one term any kind of NFL tackle non-violent?

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

The key word there is not violently, it is unnecessarily.

He didn’t have to drop his head and lead like that, according to the league. According to that same rule, Fitzpatrick was “defenseless”:

Defenseless players in (f) and (g) shall include (i) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes he did have to drop his helmet like that, or else he would have been:

Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

He could have turned and just shouldered the guy down...

And it would have been roughing the passer.

I get what you’re saying, but the bottom line is, he hit the player with his helmet and was fined.

The rule sucks, I didn’t write it.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Shouldered him down? Then he is going to drive the player into the ground.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't have all the answers man, I'm sorry.

Look at the facts though, that’s all I’m saying.

There is the rule, watch the replay. If you don’t recognize he led with his helmet (which he did), and realize what that means within the rule, I don’t know what to say.

I’m just presenting facts here, I’m not sticking up for a rule that I believe is poorly written. But the rule is what the rule is, however poorly written it is.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Really the debate is on what is unnecessary, and that is not fact, it’s just opinion.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Fact is, its just impossible to properly tackle a QB anymore.

Cant hit the legs, cant even breathe on his head, cant lower your head. Best bet is to run straight ahead, but you have to be a foot shorter than the QB so no H2H contact is made.

You basically have to jump, turn 90 degrees, and do a hip/ass tackle

by Mechem on Dec 1, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I assume it would be similar to a butt-flop reverse.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Ala

woodley’s ass tackle from a year or two ago

by Mechem on Dec 1, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

That was the AFCCG in 08

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Its too bad that NHL is taken because the National Football League has become the National Hypocrite League" Mark Schlereth
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Dec 1, 2010 11:36 PM EST up reply actions  

It's impossible to tackle a QB unless

1. You’re coming in from the side so that you can avoid your head hitting him nearly at all
2. You stand him up
3. The passer is Big Ben

So long as your head remains attached to your body, I don’t see how you really get away from this penalty. Obviously, since you’re going to be leaning forward when you run, the head is the most likely thing to make first contact, even if you try and angle your shoulder forward, and as far as I can tell, by this rule that’s unnecessary roughness. This is doubly true when they say “when in doubt, flag.”

by Zephae on Dec 1, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I have an idea -

let’s issue all linebackers a burlap bag, and they can run up and try to pop it over the QB’s head. As long as nothing but the bag touches them, it’s legal. Unless, as you correctly note, your name is Ben Roethlisberger, in which case everyone is invited to join in the fun, including players not actually on the field for that series.

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Dec 1, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

The "unless it's Ben" thing is so true

Watching the video of his ankle getting rolled and there were defenders trying to force him to the ground even after he was clearly down. They stop after the knee hits the ground and Ben isn’t in a boot this week.

All in all though, I can’t picture how Harrison is getting a fair deal in any of this. Between “bringing down his full weight” to “helmet to helmet” contact. He’s being singled out and everyone knows it.

by BamaBlacknGold on Dec 1, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

To add to this, I’m waiting to hear an official be honest and explain the flag with “He just hit him too darn hard”

by BamaBlacknGold on Dec 1, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

My firs post on BTSC...

Was about Ben taking more than his fair share of contact without any calls being made, here it is.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Good post...

October of 2008 and it’s almost like it could have been written yesterday.

by BamaBlacknGold on Dec 1, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey thanks...

I know, re-reading it I was surprised at how it is still applicable today. Craziness.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean

it was only two years ago.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

And how much has changed in the past 2 years?

I mean, that was only a month after Tom Brady was out for the season (you know what kind of gift I REALLY want Santa) and that’s blasphemy.

by Zephae on Dec 1, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

A repeat of 2008?

the other knee? hmmm

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I know.

But with the emphasis on treating QB’s like glass, you think it might have changed… at least a little.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's do a series of simple questions, with simple answers.

It may seem pointles, but let’s try.

What is a defender’s job, in simplest terms?

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

defend

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

their goal line

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

from 11 offensive players?

by klompus on Dec 1, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks Arn.

In order to defend, what do the defensive players do?

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

impede progression down the field by tackling offensive players in a non penalty drawing manner.

by klompus on Dec 1, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Okay, so defensive player's job...

Is to defend through tackling.

So, I ask again, was Harrison’s hit on Fitzpatrick necessary to his job? Was the hit a requirement of what a defender’s job is, in basic terms?

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

if you’re going to evaluate football in simple terms you’re going to make a lot of mistakes. his hit was valuable to the defense as it helps make pass plays easier to defend throughout the game

by klompus on Dec 1, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Football cannot be understood in simple terms like that. What does a defender do? Well prevent the opponent from scoring. But he could have varying jobs: cover, rush, blitz, gap control, zone, etc. And within those there are dozens of things the defender has to do as well.

James Harrison’s job was to blitz the QB and sack him. That is what we want from him. Sacking him involves hitting the QB.

You seem to be a “by the book” kind of guy and the rule is that you can hit a QB after he throws it (if you are within a step or so). That is not illegal.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

You can hit a QB after a throw if you’re within a step. As long as you don’t do it helmet first John. It is that simple.

A little less simple then:

Did he lead with his helmet? Yes or no.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

Is it possible to make a tackle without your helmet being in front of you? Yes or no.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

but it would look silly

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I think they are looking for

the shoulder to contact first, but that’s not going to happen 90% of the time if you are face up son someone and making a form tackle. The helmet will at least graze them.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

how did "son" get in there?

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Even then if the opponent makes a slight adjustment you still end up spearing him.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

And, when that contact is made...

Is it fined for?

Did Harrison get fined for his contact with Cribbs? Did Kurt Coleman get fined for his contact with Austin Collie?

No, it was ruled incidental contact, by the league, and no fines were given.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Well Harrison got fined 75,000 for one hit? You’d have a hard time convincing me that the Cribbs hit played no part in that.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

good point

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, according to the league, it didn't.

Perhaps him saying what he said added to it, but officially, the Cribbs hit wasn’t part of the fine.

And that fine was bogus, so we’re on the same page. It is a terrible fine and the union should be ashamed that they couldn’t lower it.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, you're right, but...

Did he lower his helmet exposing the “hairline” and lead said “hairline” into the player?

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

no

he has no hairline and if he did it was under his helmet.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I said yes to that.

Did he do so violently or unnecessarily?

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, we were trying to determine necessity above...

And apparently I was too simple.

A defenses job is to stop the offense by stopping the ball carrier, correct?

Did this play stop the offense by stopping the ballcarrier?

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

no but neither does a block

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

but it was an attempt to do so

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Harrison’s job is to sack the QB. And if he cannot do that, he should pressure him into a bad throw, which sometimes involves hitting him without the purpose of stopping him.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Therefore

By the rules of the NFL, hitting the QB in that situation, is NOT unnecessary.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

he did stop him though.

right in his tracks

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, if he just hit him, then fine...

But he didn’t just hit him. He led with the “hairline” of his helemt, by your own admission, which is against the rule.

He broke the rule, plain and simple. Now, if you want to discuss how stupid the rule is, or how unfair the 75k fine was, I’m on board. But you can’t act like the rule wasn’t broken.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

No it is not. It says you cannot use the hairline violently or unnecessarily.

If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/"hairline" parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily

That is what I am arguing, that it was not violent or unnecessary. It never says “do not lead with the hairline at all.”

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

It says don't lead with the hairline...

Violently or unnecessarily into a “defenseless” player.

By definition, Fitzpatrick was defenseless, we’ve covered that elsewhere.

Harrison did lead with the “hairline”

And the hit was unnecessary to the play in question. The hit he put on Fitzpatrick neither tackled a ballcarrier, stopped a completion, or ended the drive.

If you want to say there are more implications of that hit than just the hit, I don’t disagree with you, but the hit itself was unnecessary to that play it took place on.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

It is not unnecessary. You are not going to change my view on that. He was trying to prevent an incompletion by ratting the QB. That is his job and that is legal in the NFL.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

In order for something to be true it has to fulfill all the criteria.

Defenseless, true
Lead with helmet, true
Violent or unnecessary, false

Because one criteria is false the entire thing is false.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

NFL definition of unnecessary

“By Harrison”.

They’re interchangable.

by BamaBlacknGold on Dec 1, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok this might be a bit of a silly question

Does this apply? It’s under the “Roughing the
Passer” rule (I know it was not the penalty called but still it’s worded a bit differently but seems to describe the same thing)

Hits to Passer’s (3) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defend-
  Head and Use ers impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or
  of Helmet and other parts of the body to hit the passer in the head, neck, or face (see also the other un-
  Facemask necessary-roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his
          facemask or other part of his helmet against a passer who is in a virtually defenseless pos-
         ture—for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head, neck, or face with the helmet or
            facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the pass-
           er by encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and violently or unnecessarily
          making forcible contact with the "hairline" or forehead part of the helmet against any part of
             the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown
              parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer. A defensive player
             must not "launch" himself (spring forward and upward) into a passer, or otherwise strike him
                in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet or facemask to forcibly strike the pass-
                 er’s head, neck, or face—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is
                      lower than the passer’s neck. Examples: (a) a defender buries his facemask into a passer’s
                         high chest area, but the defender’s trajectory as he leaps into the passer causes the
                          defender’s helmet to strike the passer violently in the head or face; (b) a defender, using a
                           face-on posture or with head slightly lowered, hits a passer in an area below the passer’s
                            neck, then the defender’s head moves upward, resulting in strong contact by the defend-
                             er’s mask or helmet with the passer’s head, neck, or face (one example of this is the so-
                                called "dip-and-rip" technique).

by axiomatic on Dec 1, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Holy format axio :)

Can you copy and paste that down below please? I can’t read it all jumbled like that. I hate it when these boxes get so small, it makes them tough to read.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

My apologies

Didn’t know it was going to come out like that apparently pdf’s clippboards and this forum code do not mix well :(

by axiomatic on Dec 1, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Posted bellow by the way…

by axiomatic on Dec 1, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll jump in here

the hit was very necessary its because of that hit the ball was incomplete, had harrison not hit him the play would have resulted in a first down.

Steelers football is 60 mins. The final 15 have been re-constructed with re-enforced steel and ready to withstand punishment and deal out some itself. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

How did that hit cause the pass to be incomplete?

Perhaps the pressure did, but not the hit itself.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

The

pressure was cause because of the ensuing hit. You don’t have the pressure unless Fitz knows the hit is coming. They are connected and cannot be separated in this instance.

Steelers football is 60 mins. The final 15 have been re-constructed with re-enforced steel and ready to withstand punishment and deal out some itself. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Players never stop their momentum...

When rushing at the QB? Ever? The threat of a hit is there everytime someone is coming after you in football, the actual hit itself isn’t, although it does happen more often than not.

And again, I’ll say that a hit there would have been clean, but could have drawn a flag, just no fine most likely (think the hit on Campbell). It was how he hit him that drew the fine from the league (not me… I didn’t fine him).

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

He should have just said boo then huh?

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

As much as I love the humor...

You can’t honestly say you never saw a pass rusher pull up after a pass and avoid the hit, can you?

Now, we could make a strong case for Harrison’s general contact being unavoidable, and I might agree with you (depending on how you argued it of course), but if it’s unavoidable, run through the guy, don’t dip your head like he did. You’ll probably still get a flag, but maybe not a fine.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

As pointed out

before he if he doesnt lower his head then he really hits him in the face is sure to draw a flag, he lowered his head to avoid H2H hit but it doesn’t matter, no matter what he does he is going to be flagged.

Steelers football is 60 mins. The final 15 have been re-constructed with re-enforced steel and ready to withstand punishment and deal out some itself. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

That is basically my point

He lowers his head with the purpose of avoiding Fitz’s helmet. I do not think he lowered it with the point of “ramming” him.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Noticed

I said in this instance. there wasn’t enough time for the player to stop said momentum so in this instance that doesn’t apply.

I don’t think a flag should have been thrown on either play. (Campbell nor fitz).. The only flag I agree on is the Brees one but I didn’t think that should be fineable. He was clearly a step late and should have pulled up.

Steelers football is 60 mins. The final 15 have been re-constructed with re-enforced steel and ready to withstand punishment and deal out some itself. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Why don't they give them an option of

wearing flags if they don’t want to get hit. Then if don’t wear flags you’re free game, but if you wear flags they can’t hit you. Or we could use skirts. If you tug their skirt they are down.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

He was very close on the Fitz hit...

In terms of actually pulling up. I don’t think he could have pulled up at all, and avoided contact all together.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

He definitely

Lowered his helmet a little bit. I watched that clip like 10-15 times when it was still up on YouTube (by the way, people need to start making fair use claims on vids of these hits and see where they go). I don’t think it would’ve mattered though. Had he not lowered his head like that, he would’ve been penalized for violating part 1) instead of part 2)

by Zephae on Dec 1, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

How do fair use claims work?

The video itself is filed under copyright laws by the league.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

The Fair Use Rule Says

“the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.”

In my mind, these clips fall under the commentary, criticism, and news reporting exceptions. You can never be sure it meets the 4-part test, but I think it would.

by Zephae on Dec 1, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting info...

Thanks.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

When I saw

“criticism” my case was closed.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I want to be way over on the side too!

As to the “unnecessary” part of the rule. What if Fitz is pump faking at that time and Harrison holds up? He did not on that occasion but Harrison can not know that at the time he begins the delivery of the hit. To his knowledge the QB still had the ball when his hit motion began.

by Chicago Steeler on Dec 1, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah,

Johnny and I love right side discussions, haha.

By the way, John, what do you think about Reggie Bush spelling Mendenhall next year? Just a tought. :)

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

I wouldn’t like him spelling him, because I don’t think he is good after contact (which you see a lot of with this line), but he would make a great pass catching 3rd down back.

Better we not rehash that one, lol

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think he can spell Mendenhall

Too many letters

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 2, 2010 8:37 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

To add to that question...

Was it a play that needed to be made, him hitting Fitzpatrick?

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes

This is tackle football, not touch. You sign up to play a physical game and you are going to get hit. You want to rattle the QB as much as you can when you get the chance.

Say Fitzpatrick pump fakes and Harrison had let up because hitting him would have been “unnecessary” and then Fitz gets a roll out and completes a pass for a big play.

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

yes. if we were facing the patriots that hit would be important. if you get there within the window you get to start shaking up the qb. its not all about sacks and loss of down.

by klompus on Dec 1, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defend-

ers impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or

other parts of the body to hit the passer in the head, neck, or face (see also the other un-

necessary-roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his

facemask or other part of his helmet against a passer who is in a virtually defenseless pos-

ture—for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head, neck, or face with the helmet or

facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the pass-

er by encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and violently or unnecessarily

making forcible contact with the "hairline" or forehead part of the helmet against any part of

the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown

parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer. A defensive player

must not "launch" himself (spring forward and upward) into a passer, or otherwise strike him

in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet or facemask to forcibly strike the pass-

er’s head, neck, or face—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is

lower than the passer’s neck. Examples: (a) a defender buries his facemask into a passer’s

high chest area, but the defender’s trajectory as he leaps into the passer causes the

defender’s helmet to strike the passer violently in the head or face; (b) a defender, using a

face-on posture or with head slightly lowered, hits a passer in an area below the passer’s

neck, then the defender’s head moves upward, resulting in strong contact by the defend-

er’s mask or helmet with the passer’s head, neck, or face (one example of this is the so-

called "dip-and-rip" technique).

by axiomatic on Dec 1, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Seems applicable to me...

Thanks for the re-post, much easier to read now. This seems to be exactly what we’re dealing with, do you have a link of some sort? Yeah, I know, I’m needy today. :)

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Now this is interesting

so you can’t use the facemask either now. I seriously wonder how you are suppose to tackle and not make any contact with you head. I guess you’re suppose to grab them and pull them to the ground while not landing on them. But then that takes the hits out of football which disrupts QB and helps defenses. If there is no fear of hitting then you’ll see more offense which is what I think this is all really about.

Think about it before that hit it was a shutout. The league wants to see more scoring and thats what they got.

Steelers football is 60 mins. The final 15 have been re-constructed with re-enforced steel and ready to withstand punishment and deal out some itself. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't write the rule :)

And I don’t disageree with you, except for the “it takes the hits out of football part”.

They’re still hitting out there.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Do a youtube search for Gregf Lloyd highlights...

27 tackles and only ONE was lead with the helmet. Would have got a fine maybe, but not flagged since it was a ball carrier, not a defenseless player.

It’s right around 2:12 of the vid.

Some people think football is a matter of life and death...I assure you, it's much more serious than that."

-Bill Shanky

by Blitz-burgh on Dec 1, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Sent you an e-mail.

A PM, a PM, my kingdom for a PM feature.

by axiomatic on Dec 1, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Appreciate it...

pm?

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, gotcha.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

bon-chica-bon-bon

1-900-Pri-vate

lol

Steelers football is 60 mins. The final 15 have been re-constructed with re-enforced steel and ready to withstand punishment and deal out some itself. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha, I have literally no instant messaging services.

So I’m outta this one.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Screw BBM

I need one so I can talk to my friend in India =(

by Zephae on Dec 1, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I don't really use it either...

I’ve got a Ravens fan friend of mine that I always talk smack with, but other than that, no real use for it. It’s the same as texting really.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

it is glorified texting. same as how iphone presents texts as conversations.

only unique thing is about it is being able to see peoples relative availability ‘online’.

by SteelersVT on Dec 1, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s weird the rules almost seem to contradict each other to some degree. Or at least the examples given do. They go extensively into describing situations where contact between helmet and face/chin/head must be made.

Correct me if I’m wrong but this did not happen. I haven’t watched the replay extensively.

by axiomatic on Dec 1, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

If

they are going to say you can’t use the facemask then year,t hat happened, he lead with his facemask or hairline of his helmet into the guys chest, the top of the helmet, crown, grazed the guy chin….. perfect tackle but against the rules

Steelers football is 60 mins. The final 15 have been re-constructed with re-enforced steel and ready to withstand punishment and deal out some itself. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

The NFL confirmed the fine in an email to the Post-Gazette this afternoon:

“James Harrison was fined $25,000 for roughing the passer, specifically he made helmet contact to the chest of the Buffalo quarterback, who was in a defenseless position at the time the contact was made.”

Apparently not.

by axiomatic on Dec 3, 2010 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

who was in a defenseless position at the time the contact was made

I suggest he take a defensive position next time to preserve himself.

How about a new rule. If a QB is about to get hit either he aborts the pass and protects himself or he is fair game.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 3, 2010 7:55 AM EST up reply actions  

sounds like propsal for Defensive Pass Interference

If the receiver gets his hands on the ball Pass Interference is nullified because he should have caught the ball

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Its too bad that NHL is taken because the National Football League has become the National Hypocrite League" Mark Schlereth
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Dec 3, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Not quite the same

Now if you said “if you see a defender about to hit you then you have a choice of defending yourself or catching the ball.” That would be ok.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 3, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Uh

Can we call it.
 “If you see 242 lbs of James Harrison running towards you at full sprint don’t be a dumbass and just stand there” rule?

by axiomatic on Dec 3, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

you got it

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 4, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Whre the head goes, the body will follow! Wrestling 101

Such crap, how do you tackle a guy when your running- which will mean your leaning a bit forward- and he is shorter than you? as far as im concerned Harrison should just run up to the QB and sock his ass in the head. The 25k fine youll get regardless-at least make it worth it!

by B. M on Dec 1, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

LET'S CLEAR THIS UP...

… Every hit by every player looks like it is led with the helmet. You have to drop your head to make a lower body contact. If you played the game you know this or you have really weird posture.

Harrison’s helmet went past Fitz’s side – noted by the fact the the helmet totally disappeared and it could not have sunk that far into Fitz’s body and he would still live to talk about it.

At speed, it appears the chin moved due to the helmet contact but in fact it was due to 92 finishing the hit with a textbook forearm lift-push. A side note: if you could see inside the mass of bodies during a run play, every good O-lineman (one who stays low) is blocking the same way Harrison made the hit – granted, at slower speed.

The helmet angle may appear to begin upwards but that is because at impact, James began an upward thrust (raising his head) with the forearm – again, old school textbook technique.

For the past decade (decades) everybody has become so numb to seeing check-blocking leg tackles, they forgot what good technique is and don’t know it when they see it.

This is why players wear pads in specific areas – gosh, Fitz got up after that hit didn’t he?

You need a pro DVR or an old VHS recorder to see some of this because Cable/Satellite DVRs only show every other frame in slo-motion.

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 1, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Harrison’s hit wasn’t nearly as bad as this unfined one…

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2010/11/1/1786653/brett-favre-injury-vikings-chin-stitches

Plus I can’t believe that there wasn’t a fine or anything on the hit Hines took to the head.
I’m sick of watching players from other teams smash into other players with their helmets and getting up and celebrating a stop, while it would be the end of the world if a Steeler did it.

I also wanted to turn the channel when I saw CBS and their Harrison video ready to run as soon as he hit someone hard.

by flashback on Nov 30, 2010 7:33 PM EST reply actions  

Of course there was no fine....

it’s a Patriots player.

Some people think football is a matter of life and death...I assure you, it's much more serious than that."

-Bill Shanky

by Blitz-burgh on Nov 30, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

$7500.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Worse than Harrison’s hit? I don’t think it’s even close.

And if you want to argue “repeat” offender. You really think that repeat is worth 17500?

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm just pointing out he was fined.

I don’t think the fines are fair to Harrison either, I’ve said that. I’ve got a post I’m working on, it’s just taking a long time.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Both great points -

I’ve been stewing about Chung not even being flagged for the HtoH hit, but I’d forgotten about Favre. That was a heck of a hit, and not a single yellow hanky anywhere around.

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Nov 30, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

look at that...

helmet into the chest and neck area. I’m sure he got fined $25 grand, right?

" Just go and lay your hand on a Pittsburgh Steeler fan, and then I think you'll finally understand"

" In America" Charlie Daniels Band

by idiscgolftexas on Nov 30, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Whether the Steelers are being targeted or not...

The way the league has enforced this is inane. You don’t try and shape a rule in the middle of the season. When half of your roughing penalties weren’t penalties a year ago, or weren’t at all being enforced, and you as a league make the decision that defensive players must adjust to a brand new system in the middle of a season, it’s the NFL that is effing up.

I don’t like the new NFL the way that it is being presented, but I respect that they have a direction they want to go in. You just can’t do this in the middle of a season, and think it will be a smooth transition in anyway.

BTW, anyone who lauds the new direction in the spirit of player safety, let me tell you the NFL cares little about player safety when they are trying to jam an 18 game schedule down our throat.

" Just go and lay your hand on a Pittsburgh Steeler fan, and then I think you'll finally understand"

" In America" Charlie Daniels Band

by idiscgolftexas on Nov 30, 2010 7:42 PM EST reply actions  

And today at Tomlin's presser

he said for the first time that Harrison is going to have to alter his style of play, because the league clearly doesn’t agree with Harrison on what constitutes a legal hit, or words to that effect.

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Nov 30, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow.

One week he says we are not going to alter our style of play, then the next week we will? That does not inspire alot of confidence.

" Just go and lay your hand on a Pittsburgh Steeler fan, and then I think you'll finally understand"

" In America" Charlie Daniels Band

by idiscgolftexas on Nov 30, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah,

but it’s better than getting game-changing 15-yard penalties all the time.

by Zephae on Nov 30, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't be surprised

if MT said we’re going to tell them what they want to hear in public. We’re going to “concede defeat to asshole Goodell” in the public earshot….. but on the field…. you play Pittsburgh Steeler football and we’ll go on.

HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."

by 1BlkGldFan on Nov 30, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

its not strong leadership to tell your team one thing and the media another

by klompus on Dec 1, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

disagree

you never tell the media what you tell your players 100% of the time, i thought that was understood?

Steelers football is 60 mins. The final 15 have been re-constructed with re-enforced steel and ready to withstand punishment and deal out some itself. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

it is understood

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

you would know tomlin.. i mean arn lol

Steelers football is 60 mins. The final 15 have been re-constructed with re-enforced steel and ready to withstand punishment and deal out some itself. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

gee whiz

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 1, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Tell the media what they want to hear!

and tell the team to keep it up and take off heads! The flags are coming regardless. As i said in a previous post. Harrison Should just run up the QB -sock his ass in the head, and take the fine he’s getting regardless. They obviously dont suspend you for hitting. Might as well make it worth it!

by B. M on Dec 1, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

and if we play New England

Use a backup lineman to pick up Brady and piledrive him on his head. Just kidding….

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 2, 2010 8:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I think he's more afraid

of getting game-changing suspensions

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Nov 30, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 30, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

thats what we drafted the lbs for, right?

by klompus on Dec 1, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

If I were Mike Tomlin,

I would figure out some other way to use Harrison altogether for a few weeks, until this all dies down. Let him put some hurt on the odd running back or whatever, just to keep his hand in. But I would have Harrison right near the line at all times, staring at the quarterback constantly, and make moves and line up as if he was going to pass rush. Any quarterback with any sense at all would be a wreck, wondering where it was coming from and when it would happen. And then you send Farrior up the middle, Woodley on the outside, or whatever instead. I predict that after about half a dozen snaps like that, you wouldn’t even need to put in the corners, which takes care of the BMac problem as well – just blitz with everyone else. LOL

I’m sure I’ve just exposed some of my fathomless depths of football ignorance, but that’s what I would do…

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Nov 30, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Tomlin's response was bull#$%^

Everyone’s right. This is getting out of hand and now was the time for Tomlin to stand up for James, instead of being careful not to anger the great GODell. Figure out another way to use Deebo? Like what? Long snapper? He’s arguably the best linebacker in the league and Roger Asshole is trying to neutralize his ability to play his game and help the steelers win. No. Now is the time for Tomlin and the Rooneys to flex their muscle and let GODell know he’s going too far. It’s not going to die down until Deebo stops making bone crunching tackles, and that’s the day I stop watching the NFL

by qwikdoc on Nov 30, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey Doc...

… I like your spelling of GODell…
wish I had thought of that.
Keep it rolling. ;)

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 1, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Simple solution.

Have Deebo wear Farrior’s jersey~ I’m sure the James’ wouldn’t mind switching for a game… lol

HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."

by 1BlkGldFan on Dec 1, 2010 7:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I like it!

He might have to wear special contact lenses, though, because you can’t disguise those eyes…

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Dec 1, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

TINTED FACEMASK SHIELD

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 1, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Except for the fact that

Harrison is a darker complexion and Farrior is a lighter one. Pretty easy to tell unless Harrison bleached his skin.

Steelers football is 60 mins. The final 15 have been re-constructed with re-enforced steel and ready to withstand punishment and deal out some itself. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 2, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

black people all look alike

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 2, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

especially when they are identical twins

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 2, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That's just crazy talk....of course black people don't all look alike....

:D

Some people think football is a matter of life and death...I assure you, it's much more serious than that."

-Bill Shanky

by Blitz-burgh on Dec 2, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

see

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Dec 2, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Farrior to Sun Tan City

that Insta-tan thing should work.

HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."

by 1BlkGldFan on Dec 2, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

but how do we pale Silverback out

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Its too bad that NHL is taken because the National Football League has become the National Hypocrite League" Mark Schlereth
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Dec 2, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

The ref’s seem to be focusing on Harrison. We could put pink polka dots on everyone else and it would go unnoticed….

HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."

by 1BlkGldFan on Dec 2, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

You've got a tonal point...

…. and I should have remembered….
Farrior is my cousin-in-law – long story.

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 2, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

after the first quarter i think they would notice that harrison was never blitzing and be able to effectively neutralize the others. when james wasn’t getting a pass rush last year farrior looked terrible on the blitz and woodley disappeared. remember?

by klompus on Dec 1, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

HEY TOMLIN...

… and the Rooneys for that matter…
you should be covering Harrison’s fines if for nothing more than your own form of protest.

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 1, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

HOW ABOUT...

… A BONUS !

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 1, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

So basically...

The hit that Harrison gave Fitzpatrick is equivalent to ripping a guy’s helmet off and punching them in the face several times. Unbelievable.

According to the rules, Harrison’s hit was probably deserving of the penalty, but I don’t see how that hit was finable.

by Zephae on Nov 30, 2010 7:43 PM EST reply actions  

I have only read the first paragraph

and am fired up..bravo

"We didn't worry about the calls," Harrison said. "When you're getting a lot of penalties against you, it brings you together."

by kick him in the head on Nov 30, 2010 8:40 PM EST reply actions  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V0EkHs9Jcs

Ok I just watched a bunch of vids trying to figure out if I should be pissed about this fine or not….

As I was perusing the material I came upon this video. Ya know this stuff never gets old….and the man in that vid needs no intro.

I counted 27 tackles, mostly sacks…
ONE of them would be fineable (depending on which of Goodell’s lists your on) but highly doubt it would have drawn a flag.

All I’m saying is, it can be done and Harrison needs to take atleast partial accountability. For the record, I still believe, whole heartily, that the refs have been mandated to tighten the vice just a little harder on certain players (the ones who play their hearts out every week) and make things easier for their cash cows like Manning and Brady.

Not too long ago they wrote a new rule into existence which made it easier for DB’s to get PI calls. Why? Because they sell more tickets when the poster-boys are throwing bombs into the end zone. When Brady went down for the year with that leg injury, there was a drop in revenue. So they made another rule…somthing to do with the way your allowed to hit a QB…spearing, leading with the helmet…wtf’ever it was, its dubbed “the Brady rule”.

Now here’s the irony of it all. If Steeler fans stopped buying tickets they would cater to us too…do whatever it took to get us back. But we don’t tuck our tails between our balls and stop supporting our team like Cowboys, 49ers, and Patriots fans do. In fact, I’m pretty sure most Patriots fans are former Cowboys and 49er fans….anyway….

 When will it be too much? If someone were to chart this, the trend would be that Roger will eventually get fired. Why not? More and more people are commenting on this by the week…analysts, coaches, fans, and the Bills O-line. If the chart showed an escalation in pissed-off’isticity with exponential growth, then its only a matter of time.

I for one cannot wait!

Some people think football is a matter of life and death...I assure you, it's much more serious than that."

-Bill Shanky

by Blitz-burgh on Nov 30, 2010 8:57 PM EST reply actions  

SEE THE PROTEST PLANS...

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2010/11/30/1847983/the-terrible-dress#53282783

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 1, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya, i love it!

Some people think football is a matter of life and death...I assure you, it's much more serious than that."

-Bill Shanky

by Blitz-burgh on Dec 1, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Very well written

I hope main stream media starts calling this out more. It has become ludicrous.

I’m not one for organization, but I would say a good campaign would for everyone at BTSC to start emailing all the talking heads in the world of football. Peter King, email him, Bill Simmons, email him, Mike & Mike in the morning, email them.

We as fans can not win against Roger Goodell and the league office. That is impossible, we’re too small and too unorganized. The media sways the overall opinion of the public. Control the media, you control the league. I vote Momma or Maryrose (like how i volunteer people?)writes up a form letter for us all to email out individually. If you feel called to write your own, awesome. But if every BTSC visitor emails this to the mainstream media, it will get coverage. And if it gets coverage the league office might well do something about it.

by Chicago Steeler on Nov 30, 2010 9:38 PM EST reply actions  

I'm down....especially if there's a pre-written letter involved!

Some people think football is a matter of life and death...I assure you, it's much more serious than that."

-Bill Shanky

by Blitz-burgh on Nov 30, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

hey wait….

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 30, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

im game

agree with the prewritten letter

by seton hall and steelers on Nov 30, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, I'm willing to give it a go,

but I would need a lot more information – like prophicide’s post, only for the whole season, along with information about previous penalties and/or fines for those players. I would want to make sure that there really is a pattern of targeting Harrison in particular, unfairly. (It would be hard to argue that he isn’t being targeted at this point.) In other words, Harrison is being penalized and fined as a repeat offender, so are there other repeat offenders that aren’t being fined, or fined as much? Of course, “repeat offender” is to a certain extent a tautology, because if you keep flagging someone they become a repeat offender by definition.

Sorry to make this complicated, but I don’t see any point in just banging out an angry letter that doesn’t have any weight of evidence behind it. If somebody wants to help with the research, I’ll write a letter, though.

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Nov 30, 2010 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

this letter has just begun and there is already one apology on the table. can we take bets for how many will be taken to compromise on the entire thing?

by klompus on Dec 1, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

emails

are too easily deleted. The lost art of the written word, with a RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED ~

Form letters are fine….just make sure the USPS delivers it :)

HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."

by 1BlkGldFan on Dec 1, 2010 7:56 AM EST up reply actions  

SEE THE PROTEST PLANS...

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2010/11/30/1847983/the-terrible-dress#53282783

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 1, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

you don't need to yell in the subject line

unless its in a game thread, at which point I tend to take that to extreme

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Its too bad that NHL is taken because the National Football League has become the National Hypocrite League" Mark Schlereth
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Dec 1, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry... I'm a passionate italian

The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 1, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I admire the passion and all...

But seriously, it’s right there on the right side of the screen. Re-posting it over and over again seems a bit overdone to me.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Im down!

I vote for momma as well.

by B. M on Dec 1, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

One question

Who has the power in the NFL to decide the future of Godell? Who can fire him? By the way, I agree with the letter , but momma is right, we should show some evidence with proper statistics to present a business case to prove our point. One picture is worth a thousand words. we might be able to place two pictures in the letter, the hit of Harrison and the hit on Favre? or another picture with the Texan and the Titan fighting?

by acerero on Nov 30, 2010 11:49 PM EST reply actions  

The owners

Steelers football is 60 mins. The final 15 have been re-constructed with re-enforced steel and ready to withstand punishment and deal out some itself. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2010 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

We need Mr Rooney!

to step up and tell the league and other owners its getting out of control. If not- GODell can be president and CEO of the NFFL. I bet you can guess what that stands for!

by B. M on Dec 1, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

The trouble is

that the Rooneys are one owner out of 32. You can bet your britches that there are plenty of the other owners that aren’t that fond of Steelers-style football, and would be happy to see it legislated out of existence.

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Dec 1, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

To be honest I think they’re stuck between a rockan a hard place. They need to get a new CBA done this year and the league/owners need to be unified as much as they can if they want the best deal that they can get. Unfortunately this probably means that they cant afford geting into a big argument over the fines.

by axiomatic on Dec 2, 2010 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Difference

We can’t draw a parallel between the hit being flagged or on on the field and a subsequent discipline by the league for the same hit. On the field the referee is guided by what he saw at lightning speed from just one angle, and he has to make a decision within 2 seconds of the event. The ref can’t possibly think of a player being the repeat offender or put his hit in the context of other hits or brawls in other games. Of course they will throw the flag for the hit that LOOKS bad. And in this sense I have very little problem with Harrison’s hit on Fitzpatrick.

Now, league sanctions are an entirely different, because the disciplinrians have all the time needed, all replays from all angles possible, they have the context. To conciously put Deebo’s play (and fine) even in the same category as FInnegan/Johnson brawl and Seymour suckerpunch!..

I’m just wondering – the NFL is very concerned about its image and a message that it sends to its fans, especially the young ones. Does Goodell really think that hard football plays, even if a little violent, show the NFL in the worse light than an open fight between two high-profile players ripping off each other’s helmets and dealing blows to an opponent as if it was a hockey fight? Or does Goodell think that it is fine to punch a non-suspecting opponent in the face after a TD? Apparently, Goodell thinks this is all the same.

You know, there are only two instances when you can’t argue with a proposition – one is when its logic is absolutely flawless, and the other one is when the logic is so utterly flawed that it is virtually non-existent.

With the NFL’s latest rash of inconsistent fines you can’t really argue.

Life's a journey, not a destination.

by kliuch on Dec 1, 2010 1:33 AM EST reply actions  

Harrion

I believe he is being singled out, The late hit on Fitzpatrick was a little to close to call and a flag was good enough a fine should have not have been opposed. The seymour,finnegan,johnson should have been a 1 game suspension to send a real message that this kinda behavior is not tolerated. Where was the fine when Hine was hit helmet to helmet Oh! it was the patriots the golden boys or goodell boys. What needs to happen is the player like Fitzpatric needs to stand up say it was close to being a late hit and if it was let the 15 yards be all that needs to be done this is a contact sport and in the past I am sure I’ve been hit alot later than that and no fine. Players need to come together on this and make a stand on the NFL officials, Let former players be on a board of some kind that puts out the ruling if it was legal or illegal they know the difference.

by pittboss44 on Dec 1, 2010 7:09 AM EST reply actions  

especially since

Finnegan was “warned” after 3 consecutive games this season (including our win over the Titans) would result in “stiffer” penalties. What does Goodell know about “stiff” anyway…. not surprised he forgot. Limp……..

HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."

by 1BlkGldFan on Dec 1, 2010 7:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Here's my take:

Tann said it – Goodell reports to the owners. And if enough owners tell him that they want hitting policed more strictly, Goodell will do it, if he wants to keep his job. They’re perfectly willing to sacrifice the spirit of football to protect their most valuable assets, the highly-paid skill players (QBs, receivers, RBs).

This isn’t about “player safety” at all – this is about protecting assets. And, for some owners, if hard-hitting, hard-playing teams like the Steelers are forced to dilute their advantage, all the better.

My heros have always been Steelers...

by wozzle on Dec 1, 2010 11:24 AM EST reply actions  

Exactly

Owners like big scoring games, fantasy football type players, and flashy play. And they hate their big VIP player going down.

Unfortunately the Steelers and its constituency, and Sir Rooney dont follow that BS and that puts us on the outside looking in.

by Mechem on Dec 1, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey I want to get in on this thread. Ok here I go. I’m mad that Harrison keeps getting flagged and fined for what appear to be legal hits. Whew. I feel better now.

by worldtrip on Dec 1, 2010 5:10 PM EST reply actions  

We're all full here at the inn

Try down the street

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Fine. I’ll put my own post up. Titled “Goodell is inconsistent with his fines and it appears the Steelers are being targeted and it’s totally unfair and they should give the quarterbacks flags like in flag football and make them wear skirts except for Ben who never gets a call and while I’m at it why I think the media is biased against the Steelers”

by worldtrip on Dec 1, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty long title

better break it into 2 or 3 fanposts

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

That was very helpful

Maybe I should put up a few as well.

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Dec 1, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

TWMS?

"The only way to stop Jim Brown was to give him a movie contract." -- Spider Lockhart

by alfresco on Dec 5, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Are there any employment lawyers in the house? Is there a case to be made that the NFL is breaking HR policies by singling out an emplyee? The NFL is a company, right? Harrison is an employee of the NFL. There has to HR policy and guidelines in place for the employee. Can’t the players Union get involved.?. It just doesn’t seem right. No organization should be able to single out an emplyee to be made an example..

If they’re going to fine Harrison for the play on Fitzpatrick, they’re going to need to hand out another dozen fines for plays exactaly like it this past weekend… Its only fair. be consistant across the board…

by WETSU on Dec 1, 2010 5:53 PM EST reply actions  

I think there was a great case for the union to have at least one of the fines reduced...

And they failed miserably, and it is a shame. The NFLPA is really at fault here too.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 1, 2010 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

The NFLPA has a lot bigger fish to fry right now,

and we’d better hope that they’ve got the griddle hot if we want to have a football season next year. I have to say that annoying as all of this is, it pales in comparison to what will happen if there is a lockout.

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Dec 1, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Now that more fines are coming out for these hits

It makes that 75,000 dollar fine seem absolutely ridiculous. Especially, since he is getting 25,000 dollar fines now…

"Stop being a troll." - Mr MaLoR

by John Stephens on Dec 1, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

union power is not real

union power is directly dependent to their employers success. where was the strike threat when GM went bankrupt and tore up the union contract? there was none b/c the workers were not worried about their wage scale but keeping their jobs. they were happy to keep a union, without a gov’t bailout there would be no GM union.

so compared to the auto and steel unions, the NFLPA has more power. BUT as we see it is the owners threatening lockout, not the players threatening strike. at the end of the day players have more to lose by not playing than the owners do. $20 million is everything to ben , to paul allen it is loose change that falls out of his wallet that he forgets to pick up. the owners could always get new players to play for less, but the players don’t have the capital to put together a new league.

back in the day unions had much more power but today employers have the power. good jobs and employers are the scarce resource, not employees. hell if the owners could keep a similar product on the field they would import chinese workers and pay them $10k a year.

NFL players are treated very well, their CBA gives them close to 60% of revenue, a very high number. you could compare this to goldman sachs and other banks where there are many highly skilled employees making $10-$50 mil a year, these businesses limit pay to about 43% of revenue, give or take.

in many ways the players have the same problems we do. many of our employers do us wrong and it is very unfair. this is life. the players just have more zeros in their pay but at the end of the day they answer to the “man” just like the rest of us.

by kk99 on Dec 2, 2010 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Salvation Army Kettle for damn good players

Do we need to start a fund for Harrison and others to keep playing at a high level and not worry too much about loosing $XX,000’s? We’re gonna need Harrison to be at the top of his game this Sunday, regardless of what pinch Goodel puts on him Monday.

by DB in RDU on Dec 1, 2010 7:50 PM EST reply actions  

there is only one way

letter campaigns never work, secretaries just toss them in the trash.
media pressure won’t work. they earn from the nfl.

the only way to get rid of goodell is if you can put pressure on the league’s revenue. you need to boycott advertisers, tv and nfl paraphanelia. it has to be a boycott where you reduce revenue by at least 15-20%. at this point they would be losing $ and worried about a number of the teams not owned by billionaires surviving.

if there was a better economy and not so many recent bailouts, politicians might get involved b/c public $ sometimes goes to stadium construction. right now they have too much on their plate.

it always comes down to the golden rule, whoever has the gold makes the rules. in the end everyone knows this including the NFLPA, coaches and even the media. that is why no one is willing to stick their neck out. if the players felt it was so unjust and unfair they could strike for real, right now. that is the only real power the players have, they could take the moral high ground. i wouldn’t wait around for this to happen.

at the end of the day, fans have power if they stop spending $, otherwise 99% of the power is with the owners and their lackey goodell.

by kk99 on Dec 1, 2010 8:04 PM EST reply actions  

you said it! $$$ = everything

Some people think football is a matter of life and death...I assure you, it's much more serious than that."

-Bill Shanky

by Blitz-burgh on Dec 1, 2010 8:09 PM EST reply actions  


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