The 2010 Old School Steelers
by Chicago Steeler on Feb 17, 2010 5:54 PM EST
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PrintBumped. Great post idea from one of BTSC's super old-school readers and contributors. Thank you all for all the great posts and conversations this past few months. You've kept the site humming while I've been finding my 'legs'. - Michael -
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I'm appreciative of all the folks posting great info on the Draft and free agency. I don't have that kind of knowledge of college football so I depend on you fine folks to do the research and I'll reap the rewards in bar conversations.
What I am good at is playing the "what if" game.
The stories from Bullet Bill's time have made me fascinated with what the Steelers would look like now if you only had the small rosters where every one did everything. So what if the Steelers had to play with only 11 men on the roster? Who would make that roster and what positions would they play on offense and defense?
The 11 players and their positions on offense...
- Ben Roethlisberger (QB) - I think it goes without saying that Big Ben is the most important player on our team and would play his natural position on O.
- Aaron Smith (LT) - Aaron is such a smart athlete and is fantastic with his hand placement and footwork. I think he could step in on the offensive side and keep Ben pretty clean.
- Chris K. (LG) - I like the attitude and ability Kemo brings.
- James Harrison (C) - We know he can long snap. And I can't imagine any team wanting to see him pulling around the edge.
- Willie Colon (RG) - In part I put him here just cause we all so desperately want to see him play guard that in my dream world we get our wish.
- Lamar Woodley (RT) - Lamar brings a lot to the table and he could beef up a touch more to be a decent RT with tremendous drive in the run game and quick feet in the passing game.
- Heath Miller (TE) - He's only getting better and is tremendous at all aspects of the TE position.
- Hines Ward (WR) - Old? Who's old?
- Troy Polamalu (RB/Utility) - How much fun would he be on offense? He'd never hit the right hole, but you'd never know where he was until you see his hair flying past the endzone.
- Santonio Holmes (WR) - Anytime you have a Superbowl MVP coming into his prime you keep him on the team.
- Lawrence Timmons (TE) - I'm keeping Timmons on the squad for pure athletic ability. In terms of ceiling I don't think he's anywhere near his and his quickness and tenacity would make for an interesting TE matchup for defenses.
Offensive Analysis-
The offense gathered here is not your 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offense. I know there's plenty of fans that want to get back to that, but I don't think it's the roster I've created. With Troy playing half back I see more edge running letting him be creative with the ball. We've got a strong passing offense with most of our starters from offensive skill positions returning here.
The Defense:
- Willie Colon (RE) - I think Willie would hold his own on the end. He'd draw good double teams and keep the linebackers clean. Only concern would be maintaining contain when necessary.
- Kemo (NT) - He's ill-tempered and large. A perfect nose tackle.
- Aaron Smith (LE) - Best in the business
- James Harrison (ROLB) - Umm... Yeah
- Big Ben (LILB) - While we'd like to limit the number of hits large benjamin takes I see linebacker being the best position for him.
- Heath Miller (RILB) - Watching Heath take on tacklers makes me believe he should be able to easily take on blockers, shed them and lay a hit on a ball carrier. His hands and size should give him an advantage in coverage in zones.
- Lamar Woodley (LOLB) - Again obvious that we have a growing star and you let him do what he's best at.
- Santonio Holmes (CB) - He's got speed and can change directions on a dime. And he's got soft hands. I think he could shut down a lot of receivers.
- Hines Ward (CB) - Hines would be a similar player to Deshea Townsend on defense. Using his wily smarts to be in the right place and never get beat. And then he'd beat the crap out of you when you caught the ball making you wish you hadn't.
- Lawrence Timmons (SS) - Obviously I'm moving Troy over to free safety. I think Timmons combination of size and speed would fit him better at the SS position. He would continue to be a force against the run and could stay in some of the exotic blitz packages.
- Troy Polamalu (FS) - While I'm moving him out of his natural SS position, I think that with the players on the squad he can handle this while still doing the special things he does for a defense.
Defensive Summary-
The one thing you'd see in this defense is some hitting. We would never be out physicalled. (probably not a word) It's scary to have two new inside linebackers but having the bookends of Deebo and Wood is important and I think Heath would pick up his role really quickly. Large Benjamin would need to stay a little more svelt than he has these past few years, but he's an important cog still.
That's what I've got. What do ya'll think. If you only get 11 players who do you keep and where do you play them?
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Interesting and fun post CS
It is also really tough. The line between fantasy and what would work in today’s game is hard. I think Big Ben is to slow to play LB( really wish we could have 12 players), and the Steelers may need to switch to the 4-3 to field a team just because of weight mismatches along the lines, but let’s give it a try.
Sorry to some of my favorite players that I will leave off.,so I can have some realistic team feel. :)
off
QB- Ben
WR- Holmes
WR- Hines
WR— Taylor ( with stickum can’t be worse than Dwight Stone, and he does run a 4.2)
RB—Troy
FB/TE-Harrison
C-Hampton ( let’s see the other NT move him)
RT-A. Smith ( think his power would be great for the run, and his use of hands would be great in pass protections)
RG-Kemo ( wonder if he would be a better RG in RL)
LT-Woodley ( I am hoping his speed will make up for the lack of weight)
LG- Keisel (honestly the hardest spot to place when you try to be realistic. I really wanted to take Heath, but he doesn’t weigh enough. He also needs to get better in pass blocking s a TE in RL.)
Def
NT-Big Snack
LT-A. Smith
RT-Kemo ( no speed, but mean)
LLB-Woodley
RLB- Harrison
MLB-Big Ben (really worry about his speed:)
MLB-Keisel( Well Kirkland was really large for a MLB?? I just needed more weight on the OL, and Keisel is pretty quick and athletic for a DL man that weighs 290?? )
CB-Holmes
CB-Taylor( with stickum:)
SS-Troy
FS-Hines(You thought Clark could lay some licks as a FS( what’s that running back for the ravens that played for FL?). Let’s look back at Hine’s hits as a WR. With those devastating hits and his ability to catch the ball, he would make a great FS. He also knows how to catch the ball unlike 3/4s of the steeler’s secondary.)
What's funny is...
I’m watching America’s Game 2008 Steelers the other day on the NFL Network. And Coach Tomlin is talking about watching practice tape and using it as a tool to get the guys out to block on an interception or fumble (NostraTomlin?). And they’re showing practice tape, and all it is is Ike picking balls off. I had to change the channel, it was just too much to handle.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 18, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Photoshopped our practice tape...
"Our O-line is developing, they just don’t show it." From "Buc It" a Bucs fan.
I saw it too
I getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
no need
They will win out of guile and toughness. :)
by SteelBuckeye on Feb 17, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
I was gonna do special teams
But this post had been sitting in draft status for 3 days and I figured at some point I should just commit it.
I was thinking:
Punter: Ben – he’s shown ability there.
Kicker: Troy, just cause he’s one of the best athletes, I have to assume given some time practicing he could put it back there with the best of them.
Punt/Kick Returner – Troy/Holmes depending on the situation. Holmes has shown great aptitude for it, but there would be some teams I’d put troy up against just to see what he would do.
by Chicago Steeler on Feb 18, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Whoever doesn't suck at it
That’s how they did it in those days. BB could be the punter, based on that one time last post-season when he did that surprise punt. You wouldn’t pick anyone for the team based on their place-kicking ability; that would fall into place after the 11 men were already set.
I notice that most people are going with pass-heavy offenses. That is what today’s Steelers are built for. Back in the old-school days, though, almost every “back” doubled as a runner more often than a pass-catcher. And if you ran a Warner-style single-wing offense, your primary passer [“tailback”] was also your primary runner. But Roethlisberger is too good a thrower to replace. I’d probably at least consider incorporating a good RB/WR hybrid like a Mendenhall or a MeMo. Probably the former for his speed, given that he’d also need to pull his weight as a defensive back…
This is a fun thread.
by TheSpatulaMessiah on Feb 17, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
well
I was throwing around the idea of trying to build the team around the old 95 Corn Husker team.:)
by SteelBuckeye on Feb 17, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Who would be Tommy Frazier?
Don’t say Dixon.
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 17, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
no
was still thinking Troy maybe Hines
by SteelBuckeye on Feb 17, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
He can snap
as long as you don’t mind how far away the ball ends up…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Feb 18, 2010 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
Haha...
I thought the same thing.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 18, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Ben would have time to throw, and he wouldn’t have to drop back. As long as he can nail a 40 yard throw our short game would still be fine.
by Phantaskippy on Feb 18, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think I'll mix it up a little and leave Ben out, as well as some other changes
Offense
QB: Dixon (why not?)
RB: Harrison (thats right, the Defense will be scared to hit him and he’ll run hard. Remember the Super Bowl? Also, many people are clamoring for a bruiser RB, so why not?)
WR: Hines (is there any doubt? he’ll be on every list)
WR: Troy (we know he can catch and as a RB his durability would take some serious hits, rather see him as a WR)
TE: Heath Miller
TE: Lawrence Timmons (his speed more than makes up for any lack of catching ability)
LG: Max Starks
RG: Brett Kiesel (kudos to the person who named him first)
C: Willie Colon (or Kemo, doesn’t really matter to me)
RG: Aaron Smith
RT: Lamar Woodley
Defense
LE: Aaron Smith
NT: Max Starks (cmon, the dudes as tall as a building, he puts is hands up hes either knocking down a pass or blocking the QBs vision)
RE: Willie Colon
ROLB: Brett Kiesel (I moved Aaron Smith to LE so he can help Kiesel with getting to the QB, which he is pretty good at anyway, just not OLB good)
MLB: James Harrison (decided not to go with the obvious ROLB because I think hes got the speed and skill to play some MLB, where players like Kiesel would be severely lacking)
MLB: Heath Miller (big enough to lay some hits on)
LOLB: Lamarr Woodley (put him on the d-lines weaker side, a.k.a. the non-Aaron Smith side)
CB: Hines (who plays tougher, may not have the best coverage skills, though how would we know, but thats assuming the WRs get off the line after Hines hits them int he mouth)
CB: Dennis Dixon (hes got some speed so at least theres that).
SS: Timmons
FS: Troy
also, I thought about putting Sweed in there but I’m not sure what position he can play on offense.
Big Ben at LB
nice. He showed his tackling skills on the 05 Indy playoff game. Although it did take 60 yards for him to do it.
by SteelerMessican on Feb 18, 2010 7:55 AM EST reply actions
Great topic
I’ll have to give some thought to my final line-up, but one thing that intrigues me is the FS position in our Iron Men roster: many people are suggesting Hines Ward, and I can certainly see why: veteran savvy, great hands, hits like a wrecking ball.
But I’d put Ben back there. Why? Well, it’s a last-line-of-defense thing – if there’s one Steeler out there who can be trusted to make an open-field shoelace tackle to prevent a touchdown…
+1
Not bad… And it keeps Ben a little cleaner than being up at the Middle Linebacker positions…
by Chicago Steeler on Feb 18, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
What?
No fullback?
"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.
by kick him in the head on Feb 18, 2010 9:09 AM EST reply actions
Bruce Arians is still the offensive coordinator in my fantasy
I thought about just listing every offensive player as a TE but thought it might be a cop out.
by Chicago Steeler on Feb 18, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
well its a guy who is larger than a running back and who blocks for the running back but thats not important right now
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 18, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
surely you must be joking
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
He's not joking...
and don’t call him “Shirley.”
I just want to let you know, we are all counting on you
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 18, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Johnny, what can you make out of this?
by TomlinsPuffyJacket on Feb 18, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
I picked the wrong day to stop smoking
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 19, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
all right lets get some pictures
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 19, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
The tower! Rapunzel Rapunzel!
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Were coming in from the north at 0800 hours low under the radar
when will you be back. I can’t tell you that, its classified
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 19, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
This was a great idea
I love it!
Thanks
I may be old but I... oh d*mn, I forgot what I was going to say.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 18, 2010 9:41 AM EST reply actions
Great roster Chicago Steeler
I would love to see our 11-man team play against any other 11-man team the rest of the league could put up.
Perhaps we could get MaLoR to throw up a Ravens squad.
I think it’d be interesting, you need teams with an athletic quarterback to not have a huge hole on defense. Peyton Manning for instance is too valuable on offense to leave off the colts roster, but what the crap do you do with him on defense? Whereas a guy like Vince Young actually could do some good stuff on a defense.
by Chicago Steeler on Feb 18, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
malor
he would just have ray lewis as the entire team since he is the best player EVER lmao
lol
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
by Michael Bean on Feb 18, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
I made the front page! That’s a first, thanks Blitz!
by Chicago Steeler on Feb 18, 2010 10:07 AM EST reply actions
IMHO
This should be an option in Madden
by TomlinsPuffyJacket on Feb 18, 2010 11:13 AM EST reply actions
haha
I like that. So essentially you play the game in your throwbacks and only get 11 players. It’s make for an interesting experiment. You could see which wins, a great offense or a great defense? Have all the players on offense play both ways versus a team of all defenders playing both ways…
by Chicago Steeler on Feb 18, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Tried Holmes at CB
and then CB blitzed with him, which lasted about 3 plays cause I hit-sticked Flacco and injured me. Embarrasing
"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.
by kick him in the head on Feb 18, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
You have to put Ike in there
CB is the hardest position to play in the NFL and Ike is the fastest guy on the team. Even if you don’t use him at WR (because he can’t catch) he would make a hell of a running back.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Feb 18, 2010 12:17 PM EST reply actions
Are you sure he wouldn’t drop the hand-off?
I kid, i kid… I thought a lot about Ike, but couldn’t conceive of a proper person to drop for him. Maybe Timmons, but I thought that reduced the overall physicality of the team too much.
by Chicago Steeler on Feb 18, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
I’d run a wishbone offense and play Ike at QB.
by Phantaskippy on Feb 18, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Ike at RB
Don’t forget Ike was a running back his first three years in college.
I thought he played flag football his first two years at Swagger University
AKA Louisana- Layfeyette
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 19, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Great post! Thanks.
I especially liked that you included Colon “just cause we all so desperately want to see him play guard.”
You forgot to add that, on defense, he would finally get what he so desparately wants — to legally move before the snap…
Agreed
Between that and holding he’d be having a grand old time.
by Chicago Steeler on Feb 18, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Great post, excellent idea...
Somewhere Chuck Bednarik is smiling (wasn’t he known as the 60 minute man? Sorry, MaryRose is the history buff here).
I even liked the use of the jump as a cliff hanger, kept me wanting more. Well done.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
he was the last 60 minute man
playing both MLB and center
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 18, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Great topic
It was very tough to pick 11 guys who could play both sides of the ball, but I’ll give it a go.
Qb- Dixon – Wish i could give the nod to Ben but can’t afford the drop in play on defense.
Rb- James Harrison-Super bowl 43 int return, and any one else remember him huddling L.T.
WR.-Hines-super bowl MVP and HoFer in the making.
WR-Tone-Super bowl MVP and he is magic with the ball in the open field.
WR- Troy- No reason really just an amazing athlete.
TE- Heath-Best all around tight end in the NFl
LT-Timmons- He might be a little small but hopefully his athleticism would make up for it.
LG-Aaron Smith-He is a competitor and could fill in any position on the line.
C- Chris K.- A monster with a mean streak.
Rg-Keisel- Same as Aaron i think he could fill in nicely
Rt- Woodley- He sure beats enough Rt’s on Sunday so I’m sure he could hold his own.
Now defense is were it gets tricky but lets mix it up a bit.
LE-keisel-His is athletic and we know he makes plays
DT Chis K- He is mean i bet he would love to hit people.
DT- Aaron Smith- Yes this is a 4-3 D and Aaron would make plenty of plays here.
RE-Heath Miller-Heath is a smart guy so he can figure out how to be a top end in the NFL
Rolb- Timmons- He has speed to make plays
Milb Harrison- He would be a scary guy in the middle think lambert like.
Lolb-Woodley- He will continue to lay the wood for years to come.
CB- Holmes-I would hate to be on the other team when he get his hands on and INT.
CB-Dixon- His athleticism would allow him to make play.
SS-Troy- He makes plays as always.
FS- Ward- he can hit and catch what more could you want.
I would match these 11 up against anybody in the NFL.
Harrison MLB, nice one
"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.
by kick him in the head on Feb 18, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
an old school look.
QB/RB – Taylor
QB/RB – Ward
FB – Polumalu
RB/FB – Mendenhall
TE – Miller
WR – Holmes
OT – Smith
OG – Harrison
C – Timmons
OG – Kemoeatu
OT – Woodley
DE – Woodley
DT – Smith
DT – Kemoeatu
DE – Miller
OLB – Harrison
MLB – Timmons
OLB – Mendenhall
CB – Holmes
CB – Taylor
SS – Polumalu
FS – Ward
Running out of a T, Power I and some Wishbone, can switch Holmes into the Back field and move Rashard, Troy or Hines to the front as an HB. Hines can throw and run, Taylor for speed as well as Wallace, Troy blowing up people.
For O-Line I put Timmons at C cause I’d pull him out all day to blindside a LB, Kemo can jam in while Harrison just drive blocks somebody back 3-4 yards. I think Aaron and Woodley could handle the OT, Aaron would be downright good.
As for Defense, Miller and Mendy I fit in where I think they would work, I’d just blitz Mendenhall, plus I think the guy could cover in man. I almost put Wallace in for Holmes but I wanted Holmes’ running ability on offense, I think Wallace is a fast enough learner to play CB. I could see him glued on someone like a young Ike.
Forget Any Player Over 300lb.
Going both ways would dictate linemen in the 275-295 lb range. In fact, except for the WR/DBs most players would have to drop 10 to 30 pounds to go both ways. Out would be Colon, Kimo and Big Snack. You would be looking at some of the TEs to play both ways on the lines and look to Harrison and Woodley as guards.
Can any of these guys really play a full 12 minutes of football?
That’s right according to the WSJ, who put a stop watch on four games, the NFL “action” for the average game tops out at just over 11 minutes.
Going "Old School" Should Also Eliminate Some New Rules
No more penalties for:
Roughing the passer.
Pass Interference.
Return to the true “no holding” rule
Roughing the kicker.
Face mask and horse collars.
Flagrant fouls.
Helmet spearing.
No substitutions except for injuries.
No helmet receivers.
No instant replay.
More discretion to the refs.
Between having to play for 12 full minutes,
and the lack of penalties, it sounds to me like you would need a whole new team every year. Those boys would be finished!
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Feb 19, 2010 7:37 AM EST up reply actions
Alternative
After reading some comments I have an alternate squad, where I include Ike to bolster the defense.
Ike’s in – Ben’s out.
Ike – RB on offense
Troy RB/WR on offense
Hines – QB on offense.
On defense Hines slides to SS
Ike is in at CB
Timmons comes back to ILB.
I think this definitely improves the defense. On offense it hinders the team slightly, but would still be fairly effective.
by Chicago Steeler on Feb 19, 2010 5:27 PM EST reply actions
In that scenario there could be no RB screens to Ike...
but then again, FWP couldn’t catch either, so….
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
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