It starts from the Inside
Hey guys, first time poster, although I have been an active reader of this blog for a couple years now, and decided it was about time to get my feet wet.
I often read all the comments, and have noticed that there are a tonne of people clamorring for a shutdown corner in the first round, which I strongly disagree with in terms of eying that as our biggest need, although if a certain player were to drop and warrant a "Best Player Available" type of situation, then I may be all for it.
Before I go any further I'd like to note that this is all my entire opinion, and is not meant as a shot at other peoples opinions. If i come across as ignorant, I apologise.
#1 corner, or often spoken of as "Shutdown corner" really bothers me. I have noticed that a few people have said we need a shutdown corner in the draft or free agency.
If I were to name the amount of shutdown cornerbacks in this league, my list is only two people long. Darelle Revis and Nnamdi Asomugha with Charles Woodson being very very close. Game in game out, these guys do nearly everything right and leave their Wide Receiver counterparts irrelevant. Nnamdi Asomugha is so good that quarterbacks wont even TRY to throw in his direction. Woodson is tested a lot, and often comes out on top with some great route jumping, but also gets beat bad every now and then. Revis is just insane.
The next tier down is the range of so called Number One cornerbacks, by which, these guys hold their own pretty well, and a lot of them are on the cusp of true shutdown greatness, but never hold the consistancy to truly be known as a shutdown corner.
Names like Asante Samuel, Ike Taylor and Leon Hall come up in this conversation, and guys like Nate Clements, Al Harris and Ronde Barber were all number one corners in their better years.
Cornerbacks very rarely jump in and are brilliant straight away. A lot of the best guys took a few years to develop into a starter. Some guys perform brilliantly in the nickel, but are never suited to be a starter in man on man situations.
William Gay rings a bell right about now, although I feel a year of being torched, gives him a tonne of tape to work on, and could make significant strides his second year. I also see Joe Burnett developing into a solid cornerback, with a little more control and instincts. He jumps routes very very well, but also jumps on play action and pump fakes.
Anyways to getting down to my point. You cant just say "We need a number one corner" or "draft a shutdown corner in round one" and expect it to happen just like that.
I saw some people clamoring for Antonio Cromartie, which is a joke. The guy is softer than my sisters teddy bears. Not a steeler footballer, hes a guy who lived on being a zone corner with solid partners like Jammer doing the dirty work.
Now I'm getting to my point. Defensive and Football success starts from the inside. From the front lines. Much like the army, its the ones leading the charge in the trenches that are able to set up the rest of the gameplan.
If you have a solid offensive line and defensive line, you should win football games. There are of course always differences in team mentality and gameplan, but that is usually a one hit wonder type of scenario.
Sometimes the difference between being an average/solid/elite Offensive line is often the ability to make one last nudge, hold the block for an extra half to full second. Its the difference between a running back getting a clean lane into the second level, or being ankle clipped because a defender got his hand free.
Good offensive lines make or break some running back and quarterbacks careers. Looking at Marc Bulger is a great example. Orlando Pace in his prime still, and Bulger hit 4300 yards and less than ten interceptions. He was protected much better from his blindside. Pace gets injured and Bulgers career has been in a massive decline since.
Same situations can apply on the defensive side.
Cornerback success is reliant heavily on pass rush. You'll notice that the worst Passing Yardage Allowed teams in the league, often have terrible pass rush or sack count.
Guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are masters at looking off defenses and using pump fakes to deter defenders. Get a good pass rush to bull the offensive line backwards, and suddenly they do not have the time to throw the pump fake, to turn their head the opposite direction, to step up into their throw.
Cornerbacks are probably the least important position on the defense, yet they are the pretty boys of the league with their interceptions and touchdown returns. But as we saw in that hilarious link by Johnny_S in the six pack, they are often reluctant to get their head down and make tackles.
Im sort of old school in my approach, but I see if you have a good offensive line and and a good defensive line, you will always be in the conversation of playoff hopefuls.
The Steelers have been in contention nearly every year of this decade, because they have had a great defensive line and continuity. Last year, the front office showed last year that they believe continuity with the O-Line, and for the most part we had great success, especially running the ball, when of course, our much maligned OC ran the ball.
It starts from the inside, and works it way out. Casey Hampton stays at the anchor. I would be very surprised to see any thing other than an Offensive Guard or Tackle or Defensive Lineman taken in the first two rounds.
Casey Hamptons extension gives us time, but we still need his eventual replacement. We have Evander Hood to wait in the wings behind Aaron Smith, and Sonny Harris could well prove to be the eventual man to replace Brett Keisel, if or when his production drops off.
To try and some up my rambling. The lines set up everything for everyone else. It also helps to have a long haired ballhawking safety who can attack from anywhere.
Anyways, looking forward to interacting a little more with you guys, looks like we have some real characters here.
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Where have you seen a "tonne" of people clamoring for a shut down corner in the draft?
I only saw one person that was being serious.
We have had discussions about Joe Haden, but getting him is just about as unrealistic as Eric Berry falling into our laps.
As it stands, the Steelers have 4 back up corners on the squad (including nickels), and a couple others that can slide from safety to corner.
They can’t all be Revis clones, man, but I think we’ll do just fine with the boys we have.
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
I think
The post is quite timely with the emergence of another new poster….
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want them to bury me upside down, so that my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
by John Stephens on Feb 26, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn't attacking
I know the importance of new faces on websites, and his is well written. I only asked a question, and added my own observation, with facts to prove a point.
I apologize if I came across too harsh. Maybe the interaction with steelerfamily7/celtsfan had me on edge against new posters…Oh well, done’s done.
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
No no
I am saying I believe this may have been directed at another new poster but he used “some of you” to mask that.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want them to bury me upside down, so that my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
by John Stephens on Feb 26, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Oh...That makes sense, actually.
Still, he did say “a tonne of people”, which didn’t sound to me like he was aiming at one person and masking it.
I don’t know why I’m on edge today….
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
ESPN Message Boards
Get to you after awhile. Here is a much more civilised place to share my thoughts, whether they be stealthly aimed at people or not…thats for you to imagine : )
Without me, youre only you
It is much more civilized here
For the most part we get along pretty well. All of us, at one time or another, have had some pretty heated arguments about things, but it never gets past the argument stage.
There are a few exceptions, of course, but that is what they are. Exceptions, not the rule. I think you will make a fine addition to our “Debate Squad”.
Welcome aboard! :)
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
: )
New poster threadjack in progress…
To try and fail may be unacceptable, but failing to try, is accepting failure.
don't anyone get enraged!
"You know how football is - if your mother's on the other team and you're coming out to play football, you're gonna hit momma" --L.C. Greenwood
Holy crap!
Where have you been? I was about to have you paged…
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
ha
here and there – wife is due v. soon with a baby, been cleaning up the garage, restoring an old jointer, working, trying to get more exercise, you name it!
"You know how football is - if your mother's on the other team and you're coming out to play football, you're gonna hit momma" --L.C. Greenwood
How soon is "soon"?
Fever Jr’s 1st B-day is April 10th…
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
I think the official due date
is April 13
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Mar 3, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Are you going to be a gramma for the first time?
My mom won’t shut up about it…Especially when she gets drunk…She’s a lot to be around even when sober…Ugh, sorry about the mini-rant…
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
No, actually
this is grandbaby #6. So I’ve had lots of practice. And I don’t think I carry on about it, but then I don’t get drunk either…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Mar 3, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Practice makes perfect
Unless we’re talking about some players on the team, that is…hehe
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
To tell the truth
I looked at “grandbaby #6” and I couldn’t believe it. I still don’t exactly feel like a grandmother…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Mar 3, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
And don't you be hatin'
on my boy Limas again. SMH, SF
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Mar 3, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
SF= Serious frown?
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
silent fart
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
I was actually thinking about "No play" Willie Gay when I wrote that...
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
I think maybe he's embarrassed
to be seen hanging out with his mother…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Mar 3, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Moms always ruin the best stuff... :P *hides*
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
It's so true
Dang those moms anyhow
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Mar 3, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
i wouldn't post here if my mom did
that’d just be awkward… like the scene in Seinfeld when George’s Mom is telling him that she needs an eye job because she is “out there” and George says if she is “out there” than there is no amount of voltage in the world to electroshock him into coherence.
I guess it's lucky
that we aren’t related, then…
And BTW I’m not getting an eye job…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Mar 8, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Eye job?
Is that what the DI promises the Marine recruit in “Full Metal Jacket”?
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
with butterfly kisses with the eyelashes
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
Oops wasn't done...
That’s called a “Winky”…
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
Debate
Is a beautiful thing.
Dont worry, i know entirely that you werent attacking. I may have exaggerated a bit when I said a tonne….ok i DID exaggerate that point, but its not the only blog Ive seen the Cromartie discussion come up. ESPN’s message boards were overrun with cornerback ideas
Im not quite sure on what you meant by the last line of your first comment in regards to Revis….I loved Revis at college and think hes a potential Hall of famer, my point is that cornerbacks jobs can be made much easier by pressure up front, and as long as we have that, our cornerbacks do not have to be the “shutdown” corners that everyone wants
Without me, youre only you
I know I would like Revis
but realistically I know the cost of acquiring someone like that after they have been developed in too dear. I think we are doing the right thing by drafting prospects and developing them.
I may be old but I... oh d*mn, I forgot what I was going to say.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 26, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
When is the last time a team went really far with a heavily paid DB? I can remember some very heavily paid LBs in the SB, but not too many CBs.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want them to bury me upside down, so that my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
by John Stephens on Feb 26, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
Consider that we won 2 superbowls
With cornerbacks that arent recognised by others as elite, I could live with not having a superstar like Revis, it be nice to show off some bling, but its the pricetag that lowers my entusiasm
Without me, youre only you
Not only that
We had arguably one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL with out an “elite” cornerback.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want them to bury me upside down, so that my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
by John Stephens on Feb 27, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Touche
Cornerbacks dont win championships :P
Tracy Porter will argue me that one though I guess
Without me, youre only you
I think that Wayne lost his footing on that play
and thats what allowed Porter to take it to the house
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 28, 2010 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
They can't all be Revis clones
It means Revis, IMO, is the #1 corner in the league, and not all corners can be as good as he is.
There are still very good corners out there, and who’s to say that Burnett or Lewis won’t develop into one of the top corners in the league.
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
I don’t consider Haden a true shutdown corner. At least he’s not a complete corner. Next year’s top corner, Patrick Peterson from LSU is a true shutdown corner, as well as being stong against the run. He’s already drawing comparisons to Darrell Revis.
Haden is the only 1st round corner this year
There could be better shut down corners in this draft, the combine will show them better (I think).
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
Corner is a need
We don’t know how the two rookies are going to pan out, or if both will even be on the roster next season. We need to upgrade that position with a higher draft pick. And I’m pretty sure Ike will be in the final year of his contract next season.
The front office has spread our 1st and 2nd round picks around evenly the last few years. The only positions that haven’t been upgraded with high picks are CB, K/P, OL. We’re obviously not going to draft a kicker in the 1st.
Remember John Mitchell saying that they typically don’t take defensive linemen in the first? And then they ended up taking Ziggy, who I think is going to be a very good pass rusher.
CB and OL need to be addressed early in the draft. Farrior’s replacement can be found in the later rounds. After all, we did find Mike Wallace in the 3rd.
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 26, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
And our very own James Harrison went undrafted
Keenan Lewis, who went on IR early this season with a back(?) injury, was selected in the 3rd round as well.
Burnett was a 5th rounder, and it showed in his play, or lack thereof. I think Lewis will be the #2 corner this upcoming year, with Gay relegated back to nickle, and there will be no more talk of needing CB’s…
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
Im still hopefull for Burnett
We didn’t see too much of him as of yet. I will honestly say that I did not see him play a lot of college ball either. I couple college FB junkie friends of mine down here go on and on on how lucky we were to pick him up, and they do not man-crush easily.
"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.
by kick him in the head on Mar 1, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
I'm hopeful for all our draft picks
It’s just sometimes college skills don’t translate to the NFL immediately. If at all. Just look at Jamarcus Russel…Or Joey Harrington.
There’s a lot more guys who were superstars in college, but could never make the transition to the NFL successfully. I just can’t think of any more right off the top of my head.
I’m still holding out hope for Redzone Redman, and Frank Summers as well…
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
Well
CB and OL need to be addressed early in the draft. Farrior’s replacement can be found in the later rounds. After all, we did find Mike Wallace in the 3rd.
You cn use the same logic with CB and OL. Its not like every elite CB was found in the 1st round. Ike is pretty darn good and he was a 4th rounder. Just saying.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 27, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
You missed my point
We have at least one first rounder at every position besides those two. Don’t you think that needs to change?
The Rooney’s have already stated they want us to run the ball more effectively. What better way to do that than to draft top talent?
And everyone already knows the secondary needs to be upgraded.
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 28, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
I imaigne there's a reason we don't have a first round cb or guard
In our defense you don’t need elite cbs, and first round guards aren’t that common these days because drafts are usually deep with them.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Is that why we were trying to get Revis instead of Timmons?
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 28, 2010 2:21 AM EST up reply actions
Well we were probably trying to get Revis
because he was by far the better player, Timmons is good but there was a huge drop off in talent in that draft after the first 10-12 players and he was a bit of a reach, and at the time we really had no place for Timmons, and had almost no cb depth. That doesn’t mean elite corner talent is important just that Revis was the better player and better fit at the time. Now we have Burnett and Lewis depth isn’t as much of an issue. Though I imagine if they think the absolute BAP when they get on the clock is a corner they’ll take him. I just doubt they’d take one because they think they need one.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Something is wrong with BTSC, everything I click on brings me back to this CB thread.
To try and fail may be unacceptable, but failing to try, is accepting failure.
I've been having the same problem lol
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Mar 2, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
It'd be cooler
to not have Max Starks on Bens blindside.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
How do you know that both Lewis and Burnett will make it past training camp?
I remember when Ryan McBean was supposed to be our next great lineman.
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 28, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Were people actually expecting Ryan McBean to be our next great linemen?
He kind of sucked. But because they actually played meaningful minutes this year, wasn’t McBean on the practice squad most of his first year, or at least he rarely dressed. And were better than one incumbent starter, Gay, and not 400 years old like Townshend, where as with McBean he wasn’t better than our top 4-5 dlinemen.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Yes they were
And you should know that considering what people were saying about Redman. He’s basically on his way to the HOF already without having played a down in the regular season yet.
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 28, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
I've literally never posted on here
until like three days ago. So I have no idea what people were saying.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Well in that case, welcome to BTSC.
In the event that you ever want to liven up the blog, just mention one of (or all of) these three players in a joking manner:
TJ Duckett
LeCharles Bentley
Tim Tebow (be careful with this one though)
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 1, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
Why Duckett and Bentley?
I assume Tebow because he poops rainbows and changes lives.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
TJ Duckett is the perfect back for the Steelers fans, he’s big and slow, so obviously he’s like Bettis, who before he was slow was awesome.
LeCharles Bentley was refined from the springs of pure awesomeness that flow from Mt. Olympus. He was designed and destined to become the next great center of the Steelers until The New Orleans Saints conspired with the Eye of Sauron and Bill Belichick to prevent the Steelers from winning 7 Super Bowl Titles in the 2000’s. Then he went to Cleveland, and his career decayed and fell into ruin, just like anything decent and pure that goes to Cleveland.
by Phantaskippy on Mar 1, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Hilarious!
I getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
Doesn't Redman belong on this list?
or is it too soon?
I wasn’t pleased because we didn’t win - Mike Tomlin (after the 2009 week 2 loss to Chicago).
Im still part of the pro Redman Brigade!
"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.
by kick him in the head on Mar 1, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that
but honestly I think the team direction right now is that they don’t need a first rounder at OL and CB. We’ll see though.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 1, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
They've seem convinced they don't need a first round OL for a long time
aren’t they running out of other positions to take at this point.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
lol
Yes they are. But it’s interesting to look at the FO approach, they are convinced that you don’t force a pick, if there is a special guy you want you go after him. We’ve been screaming for OL for the past 5 years and haven’t gotten it. If they don’t get one this year year, I think we can give up hope. Again, it may be the philosophy that continuity is just as good as talent, we’ve seen this play out for the patriots and the colts, who haven’t drafted many OL in the 1st round in the last 15 years, which I think the colts have only drafted 1 and the pats haven’t drafted any. Then again it may be the way Ben plays offense that a good OL will be rendered useless because Ben will hold the ball for 5+ seconds a play if he has to. Although we do have a new OL coach why not give him a stud on the line. But when you look at the money aspect of it, they already have a lot of cash tied up with Starks, Chris K., and they keep tendering Colon. Hartwig just got a new contract last year right? It may not make financial sense to draft a 1st round OL with 1st round money. I do know that we have no depth at T, none at LB and none at S. I expect we’ll draft a T somewhere in this draft, it may be in the 3rd round again. I think the best value for S is in the second round which leave LB for the first round. So we’ll see. The same is true for CB when was the last time we drafted a CB high in the draft? Rod Woodson was the last guy and he was a truely unique player and the steelers had the chance to draft him and they did. Also we drafted 2 CB last year. Remember when Detroit kept drafting Wr 3 years in a row. Its not a draft model that I would like to follow. So we will really see what the FO is up to, I wouldn’t put any stock into what they say before the draft, they do not tip their hand on what they plan to do. I don’t even believe they know what they will do, they have a plan for what might happen and will be open to whatever happens in the draft. As it looks now Bruce Campbell may be Oak’s #1 pick. lol
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 1, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Yep
The fact that we wanted Revis a few years back, to me, seems to fall in line with your point, and that we will only pursue a first-round CB and OT for our scheme if there is value. If not, then, we can make due without a special player at those positions and will, instead pursue LBs, WRs, RBs, QBs, NTs, etc…
Troy Pull-a-muscle? :(
So having Faneca on the line made absolutely no difference?
How about Marvel Smith? Those were 1st and 2nd round talents that really helped us for a couple of years.
You can’t argue that an upgrade in talent would hurt us at that position. The same can be said for CB.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 1, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Not saying that they didn't help
All I’m saying is that the line maybe good enough through continuity where you don’t need the talent. Remember last year was the first full year this line as played together. We’ll see how they improve next year if an OL is not taken. Upgrade wouldn’t hurt at CB but an upgrade in consistent pressure on the QB would render the upgrade at CB position useless. The QB can not throw accurately if he is being hit.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 1, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
If you have a chance to upgrade a position
You have to take it.
Being set in your old ways doesn’t always work. Every team in th NFL would tell you that they want elite corners in their secondary. If you get a good one in the 1st or 2nd then you might be set for the next 8 years.
If we never take d-linemen in the 1st round, then why did we take Ziggy? Because he’ll eventually be an upgrade to an aging Aaron Smith.
And besides, the last DB in our secondary that we chose in the 1st round worked out pretty well for us.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 1, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
When don't they take the chance?
Going BPA usually leads to upgrading more positions than reaching for need.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
What I mean is that
They’re doing exactly what you’re describing, if Revis has been available they would have taken him but he wasn’t so instead they upgrade another position. it has nothing to do with them not wanting to take certain positions in the first round it has to do with them going with the player they think is the best available, and for the last few years there’s usually been run on linemen, or sometimes corners before it got to our pick so they chose to take a bigger upgrade at another position. How is that being stuck in their ways or different from what you’re describing.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I know the Steelers strategy
And how would choosing a corner be reaching for a need?
You guys forget that after the combine things start to become more evident. Guys you’ve never heard of pop out of nowhere and you start trying to find film of them on youtube.
I’m telling you this corner class is a little better than you all think.
Everybody thinks the world of McClain. I’m telling you that guy is overrated. He’s good, but he’s not that good.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 1, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
If there's no corners on the board worth it
That’s the point we don’t know who’s going to be available if they pick, if they don’t think a corner is the best player on the board they’re not going to pick him.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I will attempt to hold you to that prediction
… but, to date, there are no CBs rated around where we are picking, or even close for that matter.
Furthermore, rather than stating we haven’t taken a CB or OL in recent memory, and we are therefore due, it could also be a matter of philosophy as previously argued. Unless a CB is a top talent, we draft guys with decent cover skills and good athleticism and develop them over time.
I remember when we drafted Mendenhall and Sweed a few years back. Tomlin was questioned as to why he didn’t select an OL. He responded that one could diminish the opposing pass rush by either: a) having excellent blockers, or b) having receivers that get open faster.
It seems pretty similar with defense. If CBs are too expensive or too overvalued, you can have: a) a better front seven, or b) have better S to help with protection.
I see us utilizing the value available this year and going after NT, S, ILB and maybe DE in 3rd or later… because this year everybody is focused on finding the next Revis or the next Woodley.
Troy Pull-a-muscle? :(
There must be something said for throwing everyone a curveball
Draft unexpectedly, and nobody can be sure who you are targeting. With that said, I was surprised as hell the Steelers went D line in the 1st last year.
We got to cheer a LEGENDARY defense last year, and they went that way with the first pick. I couldn’t believe it.
The Steelers have a history of taking no-name guys and turning them into superstars, household names…guys who give opposing coaches nightmares. James Harrison, or Mikey Wallace, anyone?
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
Wasn't Chad Scott a first round pick?
Right or wrong about that, the Steelers don’t need a “shutdown” corner, they do however need a quick twitch athlete that can sink his hips and explode out of his brakes and then CATCH the damn ball when the scheme and his athleticism (ie. no more 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 2!) put him in position to make a play on the ball. William Gay is not that athlete. Ike is until the ball gets there. Quarterbacks just aren’t afraid of Ike.
I think those opposed to a 1st rd corner have good reasons for their opposition. I think the pass rush could also improve with an additional half second of time to get there. Without Troy back there (hopefully that doesn’t happen again to the extent it did this year) QB’s had no fear of any repurcussions when the ball left their hand. Face it, even when Ike covers well (which is actually fairly consistant) they don’t fear throwing at him anyway. That in my opinion is why our secondary needs an upgrade. But that’s not to say the FO will go that way because we as fans don’t know what they think about our DB picks last year or what they think of the players available in this year’s draft.
I don’t necessarily think we have to spend a first round pick on a corner, I just think we need additional playmakers back there so Troy doesn’t have to be a one man show out of the secondary. When he goes down the entire defense suffers from a no man show in the secondary.
imagine
Joe Burnett playing across from Ike with Troy and Thomas over the top. We’d have the most instinctive pair of safetys in the NFL
I'm getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
Ike is in the last year of his contract
If there’s a corner there that the front office likes, they should pull the trigger.
We can’t resign everybody. We probably only have room to extend Holmes, Woodley, Colon, and maybe Reed. I think they let Ike walk after the year.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 2, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
That is the best argument I have seen for drafting a corner
So, if Ike is a cap casualty, which still seems odd considering he is a top CB, then it would necessitate picking a top-flight CB, with Burnett, Lewis, and Gay as CBs 2-4.
Yet, other than Ike’s age, a similar argument could be made that Colon will be let go, and we will draft a cheap, young RT with the ability to replace him in a year or two.
Looking at the draft, the likelihood of our getting the CB we would need to replace Ike is much lower than getting a RT to replace Colon, or a LT to allow Starks to slide over and replace Colon.
I agree with the above priority list, but it also shows me that Reed should not be too confident with these contract negotiations. Sure, for a year or two, we can swallow his contract. After that, however, Reed making $2.5 million vs. an entry-level kicker would save about $2 million.
Troy Pull-a-muscle? :(
I'd disagree on Ike being a top cb
I think he’s a solid cb, and clearly our best, but I wouldn’t say he deserves near top cb money. And with multiple other players extensions looming I think he would be near the top of the list to be a cap casualty. not Colon so much as guys like Woodley and Miller. And I imagine they wont want to draft to replace Colon to keep some type of continuity, especially if they’re going to end up replacing some other pieces on the line.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I don't disagree on preferring Colon
but Ike is, from everything I have seen, a top 10-15 cover CB in the league
Troy Pull-a-muscle? :(
Yeah but top 10-15
Doesn’t mean he deserves anywhere near top cb money. I mean once you get out of the elite cbs is there that big a difference from 20-10? Especially in our defense which has never depended that highly on cb play?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Ike holds his own against the top recievers.
I’ve always been impressed when he takes on the elite recievers and holds them to under 50 yards and no TD’s.
If only he could catch a ball!
I wasn’t pleased because we didn’t win - Mike Tomlin (after the 2009 week 2 loss to Chicago).
Yeah but it's mostly because of his speed
not his actual ball and coverage skills. As he gets older and his speed declines he’s going to lose value a lot faster than corners with above average coverage/ball skills.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
It made a difference
but we’ve obviously succeeded without them too, I mean we’ve won two superbowls without an “elite corner”, and plenty of other teams have won without elite corners also. What he’s saying is there’s no reason to reach for need when blue chip players are available for other positions.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Yeah I actually have no problem with their approach for the most part
I think trying to accumulate blue chip players rather than reaching for needs makes sense. I actually do think if their hadn’t been insane runs on OT’s the last 2-3 years before we even got close to one we probably would have drafted one. And I imagine we would have gone with Revis if not for the Jets sneak attacking.
But yeah my biggest problem isn’t neccessarily not reaching for OL’s in more all the money we have tied up in pretty mediocre Olinemen. i think we have some decent corner depth, and have for a few years, and we don’t seem to tie up as much money in lesser options. but all the money we keep giving to those so-so o-linemen seems like a waste of resources to me.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I love it
as well as being stong against the run
I am going to start a rock group and call it “Stong Against the Run”
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Mar 3, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
There's 4 cowgirls players who have a rock/metal band...
Maybe you could recruit one of them…If you have the stomach for dealing with guys from Jerry’s Playhouse…
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
Great first post
My only one disagreement is that a QB like Ben can over come a struggling OL. I definitely think our line has gotten better, but they were pretty rough in 2008 and we still won the SB. I’d argue that was the worst OL to ever win a superbowl.
Anyway, much deserved REC. Hope you post more and lurk less.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want them to bury me upside down, so that my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
I was going to make a mention about Big Ben
But didnt want to ramble too much. Big Ben is just incredible, the most distinctive style of quarterback without being a true scrambling quarterback. A real chink in the armour when it comes to the whole OL makes QB debate.
The 2008 OL was pretty bad, but the 09 one came along in leaps and bounds, particularly Chris K. The San Diego game was a thing of beauty.
Thanks for the support too guys.
Without me, youre only you
Good post
I may be old but I... oh d*mn, I forgot what I was going to say.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 26, 2010 6:48 PM EST reply actions
Welcome
Nice read. Thank you for posting it.
To try and fail may be unacceptable, but failing to try, is accepting failure.
+1
"Every Day I walk past 6 Lombardi trophies not 6 rushing titles" - Greatest Tomlinism ever.
by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Feb 26, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Good job. I'm in this camp as well.
Especially with Troy and Aaron back, things will look much different. An emerging Ziggy, another solid year with your avatar/namesake…..if the front 7 and Troy do their part, the rest falls into place.
great first post
thanks!
agree on your analysis as well.
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
I like the new guy...
On point with everything. Welcome aboard, great post.
Overseas or up north GotWoodley? Tonne? (Not the usage, just the spelling.)
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 26, 2010 11:49 PM EST reply actions
Haha you my friend, are good.
Born in Pittsburgh, family moved to Australia when I was about 3 years old, so cant say I remember much, but the old man made sure I grew up with Steeler Football
Without me, youre only you
Well Good on ya
and mind the jellyfish.
Sorry if I got that wrong. The wife of one of my nephews keeps getting posted to Sydney by the company she works for (or did, I think she left). They love it there and keep making noises about returning permanently.
I may be old but I... oh d*mn, I forgot what I was going to say.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 27, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
I live in Melbourne, VA
In a place called Berwick. I’d love to move up the coast to Queensland. Most gorgeous beaches Ive ever seen
Without me, youre only you
nice post Aussie-burgh :)
Except……you said
“To try and some up my rambling” You “sum” up ramblings.
This site has hawks for grammar and spelling. Sorry :)
Otherwise, applause for posting, and I concur with your take. You make a strong case and explain why you feel that way. The way a good post should be.
Good on you.
I'd like our non-sucky team
focus a little on the sucky ST and especially on KO returns… It pains me to see Reed having to save anything with his (ahem) tackling skills since it’s an almost sure 6 for our opponents.
When the tailgate drops, the BS stops. Shut up and play!
I disagree with your conclusion
In today’s game where match ups are critical and thoroughly exploited, and the corners support the run, an upgrade at corner is needed at this time.
I suspect two men named Blount and Woodson may also disagree with the priority you assign to the position.
Enjoyable read though.
You know
If Blount played today, he’d be a LB.
Just saying.
by Phantaskippy on Mar 2, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
You can see the combine live on the NFL.com front page
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Rec'd
Good stuff and thanks. Love the login name too. All the talk of drafting a CB into a team that rarely uses it’s rookie players sorta contradicts what we need for immediate improvement in our secondary. We need 43 back, we need our second year guys to progress, we need Mr. Gay to work his ass off in the offseason. I’ll give up on Ike interceptions, and I’m fine with that, good enough trade up.(not directed at you GotWoodley)
"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.
by kick him in the head on Mar 1, 2010 4:39 PM EST reply actions
Willie worked his a** off last offseason with Tom Shaw
And got torched all last year. It’s best that he is not asked to start again anytime soon.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 1, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
He does
Have a tonne of tape to look at of him getting beat, so he has a lot of work to do, but he has the resources at least to see where he is going wrong
His starting career now rests on his ability to adjust and learn, fast.
Without me, youre only you
I don't think the front office wants him to be a starter
He’s best suited as a backup. That’s why I think we draft a corner in the 1st or the 2nd this year. I have a hard time believing that either Lewis or Burnett is a #1 corner.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 3, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Don't get too excited
Your logic is very flawed.
You think our defense will instantly get better once we draft a good corner, not paying attention to the fact that we never start rookies.
You also neglect the fact that we didn’t have a consistent pass rush last season. Did you miss watching the part where Bruce Gradkowski and Matt Cassell had all day to pick apart our defense? Darrelle Revis can’t stop that.
Ask the Giants how good their defense was without that vaunted pass rush.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 3, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah what we REALLY need
is for someone to build Aaron Smith some bionic limbs.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
it starts from the inside?
thats what she said
by klompus on Mar 8, 2010 1:48 PM EST reply actions 3 recs

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