Congratulations, Dick LeBeau, 2010 Hall of Fame Inductee
by Neal Coolong on Feb 6, 2010 5:46 PM EST
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No one has contributed more to the game in your induction class than you, coach. Congratulations!
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Its about time that coach dad made the Hall of Fame
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: DIck Lebeau, Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
I want to have sex with this moment. And get this moment pregnant. VAsaintsfan after the 2009 NFC championship game
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
so what more does Cris Carter and Shannon Sharpe have to do to get into the Hall of Fame
apperently being the one of the greatest TE to play the game wont do it and being the best at being able to make catches on the sideline with hand isn’t good enough for the writers
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
I want to have sex with this moment. And get this moment pregnant. VAsaintsfan after the 2009 NFC championship game
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
Carter
Two-time All-Pro…career yards-per-game 59.4…led the league in touchdown receptions three times…led the league once in receiving yards…Similar career to Tim Brown, Andre Reed and Art Monk, can’t sniff Rice…neither Brown nor Reed are in the Hall. It took Monk a while to get in.
Why, exactly, is it a travesty that Carter isn’t in the Hall?
He’ll get in eventually, but the voters seem to be giving him the same level of respect as his statistical peers. He was never the best receiver in the game over one season. The only year he could make that argument would be 1995, and that was a year he had 122 catches with 17 touchdowns. Rice also had 122 catches (neither led the league) and 1,848 yards (to Carter’s 1,371).
Carter wasn’t even All-Pro that season!
He was one of the best of his peers through his career, he was never THE best in any one of his 16 seasons. He is Hall of Fame worthy, but the fact he’ll be on four ballots before he gets in at the earliest is right in line with the best receivers of his generation.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 6, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
IIRC
He was top 3 in every receiving category when he retired, wasn’t he? To me, that deserves a little more respect than it seems to be getting. Sure, he didn’t dominate at his position in given years, but you had Rice, then you had the guys like Herman Moore who dominated for 2-3 years then disappeared.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 6, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see Herman Moore on the ballot either
But at least Moore was a 3-time All Pro.
Carter is 4th in TD receptions with 130 and 8th in yards with 13,899. So he averaged 68 catches, 868 yards and 8 touchdowns a game through his career.
Not to suggest Moore should be in the Hall of Fame, but he averaged 74 catches for 1,019 yards and 6.9 TDs per season.
This seems far more even than it should, if Carter is getting absolutely screwed and no one is mentioning Moore as a viable Hall candidate.
Only three of the top 20 career receptions leaders are in the Hall of Fame – Rice (this August anyway), Monk (just got in two years ago) and Steve Largent. Granted, the game has changed quite a bit since even Carter played, and several of the career receptions leaders are either still playing (Bruce, TO, Moss, Gonzalez, Muhammad) or not yet Hall eligible (Harrison). My point is career receptions doesn’t seem to be all that high on priority lists of voters.
In my opinion Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith are first-ballot Hall of Famers because they have both monster career numbers, and they were the best at their positions for several years. They also both won multiple Super Bowls. Carter can claim impressive career numbers, but he can’t make a strong argument that he was the best at his position in any one of those years. He never won a Super Bowl, either.
So if Art Monk, Andre Reed and Tim Brown need 3+ ballots to get in, then I don’t see why Carter shouldn’t need that amount of time too. At least with Brown and Monk, teams had to game-plan around them. No one game-planned around Cris Carter.
I know that he's not top 3 now
But when he retired, I believe that he was top 3 in all 3 categories. Herman Moore was just an example of a player that seems to be on a HOF trajectory then falls off a cliff in terms of productivity. His per numbers probably look better than Carter’s because his peak was much higher but once he fell off, he was out of the league within a couple of years. Actually, I just decided to look up Moore’s numbers. According to his PFR site, he averaged 56 rec, 764 yards, and 5.2 TDs per year.
Anyway, I’m not totally outraged that Carter is having to wait, I just think it’s a little surprising that a guy who was in the top 3 in receptions, yards and TDs when he retired gets talked down so much. There even some that say he may not be a HOFer at all, or at least that they wouldn’t see it as a great snub if he never got in.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 7, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
I think it is the Era.
Passing defense is so regulated now that the numbers aren’t given nearly the weight they once were. I think we will see a lot of guys wait.
Speaking of pass-friendly era’s, I’ve been hearing a lot of debate on Peyton and where he ranks all time, I was wondering if you’ve done any work on QB analysis with Peyton, I always enjoy your stuff a lot.
I was surprised at his playoff numbers, among QB’s with at least 10 playoff starts only Marino and Moon have a lower win%. But on the other hand, only Favre, Elway, Bradshaw, and Montana have played in more Playoff games, so you could look at it either way. I guess if there was an all-time greatest regular season QB award Peyton would be at the top of my list. How do you see it?
by Phantaskippy on Feb 7, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
QB analysis
I did one a couple of years ago here on BTSC. It’s linked on the left side of the page. If you mean a playoff analysis similar to the Hines Ward post that I did a couple months ago, no. I haven’t done anything like that for QBs.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 8, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
That was a great job.
I’ve been trying to think of a way to do analysis on QB’s, obviously so much is due to system and talent around them. I was thinking of your RB post on their best set of years, but then QB’s don’t fade like RB’s do, so how many years to take would be rough.
I like the idea behind a great QB being someone who can pull off a big drive to win the game for you, but those are hard to quantify. I even considered looking at playoff wins and the production of the running game as a measure, to see if QB’s could win without the help, but that was way to rough to pull off, and nowhere near solid enough reasoning for a ranking.
This summer I might have the time to do a combo and rate QB’s by different quantifiers and not have a conclusive list, but several that would give an idea of strengths and weaknesses, but that might just end up reflecting the system they were in more than their talent. Gah. QB’s are too hard to deal with.
Congrats Lebeau
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
Did you plan the Bobby Knight quote?
I don’t get to the site often enough to know everyone’s tag lines but I thought it was kind of cool that you had a Bobby Knight quote in the message congratulating Dick LeBeau. To hear Coach LeBeau tell it, he developed the zone blitz to use some of Knight’s techniques in football. I wonder if Knight will be in Canton to talk about Coach.
I did not know that
Its just my signature that is in all of my posts. I put it in there since college basketball started up.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
by John Stephens on Feb 6, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Knight and LeBeau
Knight is from right outside Canton (Massilon, OH) and LeBeau is from right outside Columbus (London, OH). They’re pretty close in age, so yeah, I would think they’ve crossed paths a few times here and there.
The story was
that Knight and LeBeau are friends. LeBeau admired the way Knight used his players in innovative ways to bring new looks and pressure from unexpected avenues. He wanted to find a way to bring that speed and athleticism to football defense, so he developed the zone blitz. They stay in contact so it would not be a big surprize to see Knight show up in Canton. I have my tickets, so see y’all there!
LeBeau doesn't get the Hall of Fame
the Hall of Fame gets LeBeau.
by 13thieves on Feb 6, 2010 6:14 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Congratulations to Coach Dad!
What a player, coach and man. This guy is the top of his class in any respect. Canton is going to be a great place to be in August!
Yeah!!!
I’ve never been so happy to see someone inducted.
I know i never care about these things
but i almost shed a tear. Very much deserved. Great player, better coach, and even better man
by TrueSteelerForLife on Feb 7, 2010 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
Congratulations Coach LeBeau!!
Steeler Nation is proud of you!! Today you’re the DIAMOND, not the stone! (I loved that!)
When the tailgate drops, the BS stops. Shut up and play!
Awesome!!!
About a few decades too late but better late than never. Good news is Dermontti Dawson made it to the final 10 for the first time ever. Hopefully momentum for next year. There is no HOF without “Dirt”!!!
I had hoped this would be his year. Seems that he was more deserving of Grimm, but maybe the voters figure that Grimm has waited several years longer….
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 6, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve gotta believe the Grimm induction was more about wanting to get one of the Hogs in there rather than simply picking the best OL under consideration. Dawson will have his day though!
by BluegrassSteeler on Feb 7, 2010 4:04 AM EST up reply actions
There is joy in Steeler Nation....
….we rejoice that Coach Dad has received this high honor. We are happy for him, for he richly deserves this. And we will always be proud that Dick LeBeau has been a cornerstone of the Pittsburgh Steelers organization.
44!
I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson
I'm thinking of going to the enshrinement
anyone want to get together for it?
Dick Lebeau is going to be a great speech to hear.
LeBeau Gets a Just Honor, but What About the Repeated Snub of Dawson?
You’re right Neal, Dick LeBeau has forgotten more about defensive football than most defensive coordinators will never learn. So it is only right that the Hall of Fame selectors have finally enshrined him in Canton.
But what about Dermontti Dawson?
This guy belongs in the Hall of Fame, but he’s been up for induction five or six times now, and keeps going away empty handed. You can click here to see a discussion of this and other issues about the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2010.
by Hombre de Acero on Feb 6, 2010 10:11 PM EST reply actions
normally ti take a few years for Lineman to get in the Hall of Fame
It took Russ Grim 15 tries to get in so his day will come
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
I want to have sex with this moment. And get this moment pregnant. VAsaintsfan after the 2009 NFC championship game
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 6, 2010 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
The guy is amazing.
At his age, to still be at the top of his profession is incredible. Let’s get him a few more players in the draft to shore up that defense.
Akron is beautiful that time of year :)
….and it would be a great opportunity for some of us to get together. Don’t know if the Steelers are still at training camp that weekend — if so, Latrobe is a nice halfway point for those of us driving the 70-turnpike route from the DC area.
See you there, God willing. A fine day it will be!
I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson
'twould be awesome to go...
"You know how football is - if your mother's on the other team and you're coming out to play football, you're gonna hit momma" --L.C. Greenwood
'bout Time
Congratulations coach. Let’s hope your record setting years as a player are recognized as well as your genius in defensive coaching and formulation. Blessings!
John Randle? Really?
I must not have paid much attention. Was he dominant during his career? Don’t remember him being much more than undersized and loud.
by DwightWhite's Missing Tooth on Feb 7, 2010 4:07 PM EST via mobile reply actions
He had 137.5 Sacks, seven time pro-bowler and had six All-pro selections
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
I want to have sex with this moment. And get this moment pregnant. VAsaintsfan after the 2009 NFC championship game
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
Congrats guys
Great coach. He deserves it just for having to coach the Browns.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
I thought he coached the Bungals
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
I want to have sex with this moment. And get this moment pregnant. VAsaintsfan after the 2009 NFC championship game
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 7, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Congrats to Coach Dad
He always deserved it and is still one of the best in the game, I just wanna know whose leg you gotta hump to get Dermontii Dawson in the Hall of Fame, he was oh I dunno one of the best centers in the history of the game. I know we don’t care too much about the line, I just wish we would have gotten him a Super Bowl win, he’d be in by now.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
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