Peyton Manning and the post season
by scottd7 on Feb 9, 2010 6:26 PM EST
96 comments
While I admire and respect Manning's work ethic and regular season success, I have never been much of a fan of his. I heard on NFL radio today a Steeler fan suggesting that Manning would not win behind the Steelers line. (I agree). The hosts thought if Manning had played for the Steelers, with their defense, he may have 4 rings. I completely disagreed, but I decided to check it out. If this is right, then Manning delivers in the postseason, but does not have a good enough defense to win. He must lose a lot of shoot outs due to his great quarterbacking, but poor defense?
I don't think so. I looked it up. He has nine losses in the playoffs. His offense has scored more than 2 TDs a grand total of one time. He has scored: 16,17,0,14,3,18,24,17,17.
In his super bowl win, he had one TD, and one pick .
Sorry, this does not cut it. The guy clearly cannot get it done in the post season. Like I said, I don't like the guy, so I am biased. But facts are facts. . Had a chance to go down with 5 mintues left to tie the game, and he could not get it done.
Great regular season QB. Maybe the best ever. That is all.
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Those are interesting stats
Alot of Indy fans claim that he is the best of all time but the bottom line is he doesn’t get it done in the postseason. I’ll keep Big Ben….
by Dr Del on Feb 9, 2010 7:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
AGREED!
he would not win with the O-line BB has!
by nycsteelerfan on Feb 9, 2010 8:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Really, the line's not good?
Tell me more.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The O-Line is good enough bt not as good at pass blocking as the Colts line
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 10, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just like Ben makes his o-line look bad
Manning makes his o-line look good.
Dixon didn’t get sacked once against the Ravens. A team that sacks Ben at least twice per game.
When Manning was pulled against the Jets the rookie Painter was sacked on his first play.
I getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
by Steel in FL on Feb 10, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shhh...
No one wants to hear that. :)
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
The weather is nice here along de Nile…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by momma rollett on Feb 10, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Saints tore up Minnesotta’s O-line, Manning never really got hit, and he wasn’t getting rid of the ball quick.
If we had Peyton his full career we would have more SB wins. Seriously Bettis and Kordel won 13 games in 2001. Put Manning in there for Kordel on a rookie contract and we win the Super Bowl if more passing means Bettis is healthy for the playoffs. Heck Peyton could get hurt but if Bettis was healthy we win.
A few seasons of Manning, Burress, Ward, and Jerome would have been ridiculous.
But last year, no way Peyton wins the SB with that line. No way.
by Phantaskippy on Feb 10, 2010 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Peyton throws a pretty ball
But I can’t remember seeing him hold the ball until the last instant, then throw a perfect pass just before getting drilled by a blitzer. On the SB interception, the Saints were in an all-out blitz, and it looked like Peyton tossed the ball out there so he could avoid the hit, instead of taking the time to throw a good pass. Maybe it’s because I don’t watch the Colts very often, but to me, Peyton doesn’t seem as tough as Big Ben or even Farve. In the playoffs, against an aggressive defense, Peyton seems to get smaller and smaller as the game goes on.
by Steelin on Feb 9, 2010 8:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He may throw a pretty ball, but....
He’s a pansy. Peyton simply isn’t willing to take a hit. If you’ve ever seen a play break down to the point that a defender is running free right off the snap, he simply hits the turf. Is that a smart move on his part? Sure, it extends the length of his career. Is it always a prudent move? NO. I think the SB illustrates that. He’s predictable. When he’s pressured, he either hits the turf or gets rid of the ball as quickly as he can. Now, I’m not saying he’s a bad QB. Far from it, in fact. I’d take him over Brady and likely all the other QBs in the league, save one: Big Ben. I’m just saying that when the pocket breaks down and he’s facing pressure, he just isn’t that great.
by SteelerBoy86 on Feb 10, 2010 1:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly don't care
The argument about who is the best quarterback is largely irrelevant. Peyton is an awesome quarterback. If you really want to make the case for Ben being the best quarterback of all time, post a thread about it in about ten years. Then we’ll be able to see whether Ben fulfills all the promise of his career thus far and gets the three additional rings he’s shooting for.
by prophicide on Feb 10, 2010 12:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
sorry for slightly off topic
I’m tired and responded to the implication of your post and not the content. As a Steeler fan though this just seems like dogpiling on an easy target. The poor guy just lost the Super Bowl to the Saints, cut him a break, he’s pretty good you guys.
by prophicide on Feb 10, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the "poor" guy
is a “poor” teammate. he’s piled on his own players with swearing at them on national TV, criticizing them for losses he played a huge roll, and just frankly thinking he’s better than everyone else (especially teammates and coaches).
i offer no pity to a player like that and i loved his pick six in the super bowl. he is great and one of the best of all time but he’s not a good team player, and for that he deserves every ounce of criticism he gets.
by t1mmy10 on Feb 10, 2010 2:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great post scott
Earlier this year I got in an argument with someone that 20 is the “magic” number. If the defense can hold the other team under 20 they should win. A good offense should be able to consistently score more than 20 points especially when the defense is doing a great job at keeping the opposing offense off the field. From these numbers and the “magic” number, you can see that Manning just ain’t getting it done in the playoffs.
Does it tarnish his legacy? Well, IMO, it does to an extent. No doubt Peyton is the greatest QB of all time as far as numbers go. However, being able to crush stats and win MVPs does not making you a complete player. Clutch play is very important in a sport that does not have playoff series but win or go home. How much would we think of Jordan if he had missed that shot against the Jazz (or missed any of those other games in the POs on poor performances)? That is why I have a hard time putting Marino in my top 5 QBs all time.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
by Johnny_S on Feb 10, 2010 7:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Peyton is 6-2
In the playoffs when his defense holds teams to 20 points or less. By the way, I don’t believe in any magic number that equals a win. The numbers provided in the post, while 100% accurate, don’t tell the whole story. Here is Peyton’s full postseason record, with game scores.
L- 16-19
L- 17-23 (OT)
L- 0-41
L- 14-24
W- 41-10
W- 38-31
W- 49-25
L- 3-20
L- 18-21 (2005 Steelers)
W- 23-8
W- 15-6
W- 38-34
W- 29-17
L- 24-28
L- 17-23
W- 20-3
W- 30-17
L- 17-31
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't ask you to believe it or not
Statistically the average for points scored against is around 20. This year it was 21.5, 22 in 08, 21.6 in 07, 20.6 in 06, 20.6 in 05, etc, etc. So maybe it is more like 21, but still the same story applies. You don’t have to believe it or not, but generally the teams above this average make the playoffs, and teams below it do not. Obviously, there are exceptions like any rule, but it is pretty accurate.
Teams allowing less than 20 this year: NYJ, DAL, BAL, SF, NE, CIN, GB, IND, CAR, MIN, SD. So all but 2 of those 11 teams were in the POs. That means, only 3 playoff teams came from below that number. ARZ, NO, and PHI. And all three were above the league average of 21.5.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
by Johnny_S on Feb 10, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't trying to disagree or really even agree with that logic...
I was just pointing out that his record in those games was pretty good.
If we took the number 17 for instance. He’d be 10-5-3 in games where his defense supported him even more. (You may wonder why I chose 17. That happens to be the average points allowed by the Steelers defense over the last decade.) But of course, if you decrease the points allowed by a defense, any quarterbacks numbers will get better as a result.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was more replying to this line...
“From these numbers and the "magic" number, you can see that Manning just ain’t getting it done in the playoffs.”
Yes, from those numbers that looks true, but they aren’t the full list of numbers we should be looking at. If you take a players numbers only from his losses, he’s going to look worse as a player.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
When it is win or go home, the losses seem to stick out a bit more than wins.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
by Johnny_S on Feb 10, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't mean the wins aren't there...
Focus on the negative, and all you’ll see is the negative side. Look at both sides and you get the full picture.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
9-9 is still 9-9
My point is when you need to advance, and when you are the favorite like he has been many times, the losses stick out more. If he was losing games they were not supposed to win I’d understand.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
by Johnny_S on Feb 10, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
9-9 is still 9-9, but the numbers that were referred to were 0-9 numbers...
That’s what I meant before, all the numbers above were only from his losses… thus 0-9 numbers.
Expectations change peoples thinking, about a lot of things. If he failed to reach some one’s expectations of what he should do, then fine, he fell short of his own expectations too. That’s a fair arguement, but it doesn’t tell the whole story, that’s all.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
what he is trying to do is show that when they lose its not completely on the defense….
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 11, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its obviously a team sport
but you can’t go blaming those losses on the other side of the ball. for a lot of those games, indy sacrificed having good D to boost their offense & knew that they needed to do very well on offense to have a chance of winning the game. so let’s look at it a different way
if a lil above 20 is the avg: 8 of his 9 losses came because HIS offense didnt get the job done well enough (if you will). granted that’s taking a very simplistic look at things.
IMO, he’s a great player but him and ben are 2 different style of qbs.
by t1mmy10 on Feb 10, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree fully...
I’m not trying to blame his defense solely. His team didn’t get it done, Peyton and his defense included.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When you add our defensive numbers to the equation you must also equate the drop off in the offensive line. Jeff Saturday is a member of the all decade team for a reason, and I believe he has more Pro Bowls than our entire OL. It’s nice to say “oh well if he had a better defense” blah blah…but the money they don’t spend on D is spent on offense. And the money we spend on defense is not spent on OL and high priced receivers. Is that Peyton’s fault? No. But you cannot just magically give him a better defense W/O taking something else away.
The thing is, many of Peyton’s playoff losses he had a chance to put his team in good shape. Like this SB he was only down 7 with the ball against a D he had picked apart pretty well all game. Instead he got flustered on a Blitz and threw a bad pass that ended the game. Against us in 05 his offense didn’t score a TD until the 4th. In the 07 loss to the Chargers I remember he threw a crucial pick in the game.
He may not have the best defense in the world, but they have certainly put him in a good spot in his history and he has floundered.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
by Johnny_S on Feb 10, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
And this last line:
“He may not have the best defense in the world, but they have certainly put him in a good spot in his history and he has floundered.”
That’s the big one. A great player can put you in a position to be successful, but it takes great team around him to finish the job. And if that great player plays below his expected level, chances are, that team has no chance.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crunch time
I think the point is big games. He is better in early rounds – except for his 1-3 record after a first round bye. The dude can play, he just does not bring his best as the stakes get raised.
by scottd7 on Feb 10, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But, when the stakes get raised...
Chances are you’re playing a better team than you were earlier in the playoffs. And, if a team is better, then your team better rise to the occasion. Peyton has failed to do that, and so has his defense.
Great players can win you games, great teams win championships.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Before I even start...
Ben is my quarterback. If I have to say it in bad sunglasses while crying… I will. I would take Ben over anybody.
But Peyton Manning is the most skilled quarterback that plays in the NFL. He has an unbelievably accurate and strong arm, he disects defenses at the line of scrimmage and controls every aspect of his offense.
I love the “he’s a pansy” arguement. He’s 6’5" 235 lbs. He can take a hit. He’s just smart enough to recognize that there is such a drop off from him to his back up, that losing him for any strtch of time almost guarantees a loss. Which one of these twovquarterbacks will help his team more on the next play of the game:
As much credit we give Ben for for being a warrior (very well deserved credit), it’s not very difficult to recognize that we’re better with him than without him (and I am a Dixon supporter too). Maybe a few more slides from time to time aren’t a bad thing. And if you think Peyton slides every time he’s about t be hit, that’s not accurate either. There’s a time and a place for everything. Quarterback is all about decision making.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 9:31 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
well..
I think we all can agree ben needs to slide more, but i question Peyton’s decisions to have such happy feet in the pocket, he wasn’t sacked once in the super bowl but he extra sensitive to pressure, i was watching the game like ben would have never thrown that pick because he wouldn’t care there was a guy 5 feet away from him and closing in, he will hold that ball.
A sack is better than a pick 6 anyday.
While Peyton is the better QB. Who would you rather have on your team, John Elway or Dan Marino?
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 10, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Either...
Both were extremely talented players. There’s no reason to choose one over another. If I had to choose one, I’d take Elway for his mobility.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
you can only have 1 QB, I understand what you are saying, both are great and belong on the same plateu, it all depends on what qualities you value the most in a QB, and I personally value a QB that can get it done in the SB with the game on the line, a QB that gets it done in the playoffs moreso than one who can put up stats. I’d take Rivers before I take Romo just because he has done so much more in the playoffs and when you have a team that is all that matters. Thats just me, some people like the stats.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 10, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh...
But even Elway would have never gotten it done with out Terrell Davis and a top ten defense. There in lies the rub. Even the very best players need a little help.
Did you know every single time Dan Marino had a defense that ranked in the top 15 he helped take that team to the playoffs. In the eight seasons during his 17 year career they failed to make the playoffs, his team finished with a defense that had an average ranking of 22nd in the league (actually 21.857, I rounded it off). He played through the 49ers hey day, where they won four Superbowls because they were one of the greatest teams ever. During the same time span, the Redskins won 3 Superbowls with 3 quarterbacks, because they were a great team. At the tale end of his career he ran into another all time great team, the 90’s Cowboys. Great players get denied championships because of great teams all the time.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Teams do win championships
but QBs get graded on those championships, they usually get the most money and touch the ball on ever offensive play, so with great power comes great responsibility sometimes even more than you deserve
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 10, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Quarterbacks can be graded by championships...
It is part of the equation, but it should not carry as much weight as it does. Just my opinion.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But championships does not a great quarterback make
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by SteelFever on Feb 10, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so
does Terry Bradshaw makes it to the Hall of Fame without his championships?
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 11, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't Kyle Boller QB the Ravens in 2000?
And Brad Johnson won SB 37 with the Bucs…Are they great QB’s?
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by SteelFever on Feb 11, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Terribly sorry, it was Trent Dilfer who was QB for the Ravens that won SB 35
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by SteelFever on Feb 11, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and now that no talent ass clown thinks he is smart enough to rank QBs... he puts Ben on the third tier. like seirously? homer much
by klompus on Feb 11, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who, Dilfer?
Citation needed
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by SteelFever on Feb 11, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
here's the link
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview09/columns/story?columnist=dilfer_trent&id=4436281
this jerkoff put Rodgers below Hasselbeck and Hasselbeck on the same level as Ben… not to mention his blurb right under “Stars” says that this group has “big game success” despite having 4 superbowl losses in the group.
by klompus on Feb 11, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean 3 SB losses.
Both Eli and Ben have won, McChoke, Warner and Hasselbeck all lost theirs.
Ben has more SB wins than Manning, and Pey-Pey is still elite, whereas Ben is “just” a Star…WTF?? Rivers has NEVER won, or even played in, a SB, and he’s ranked above Ben? Wow! The Steelers mjust have scrambled his brains but good before he retired to become an “expert”…
What a prick.
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by SteelFever on Feb 11, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thought Warner won with the Rams...
I’ll check Wiki…
Yes, he won SB 34 with St. Louis
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by SteelFever on Feb 11, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Upon further review...
Warner did lose to the cheatriots with the Rams. You remember correctly sir.
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by SteelFever on Feb 11, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone else think anything of Manning's body language on the last play?
To me, he seemed to look around, saw nothing was open, and then just throw the ball even though he knew there was little chance of anything happening. Then, as he was walking off the field, he kinda shrugged as if he was thinking that there was nothing else to do.
I am curious if anyone else saw this. It did not seem to me to indicate that ‘killer instinct’ that is always loved. Again, I agree that the Ben vs. Manning as better QB is largely silly, but I will say this: would Ben have just throw that ball into coverage like that, while knowing that there was almost no shot, or rather would he have began to run and be willing, if nothing else, to be tackled by three guys before he just gives the other team the ball?
Troy Pull-a-muscle? :(
by sctx109 on Feb 10, 2010 11:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i didnt notice that but it might be true
problem is that wayne was open and he dropped the ball. he would have feel in for the TD
by t1mmy10 on Feb 10, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree.
I saw him locked into Wayne the whole way. That contributed to the db jumping the route. He did not look around. Collie was wide open on the drag and peyton did not even notice.
If it were a QB other than him, eveyone would be climbing all over the bad decision.
by scottd7 on Feb 10, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
Eveyone’s doing a pretty good job of climbing all over that one as it is.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Manning INTENTIONALLY threw that pick
Watch the replay from the camera angle behind the line of scrimmage. Porter is already in front of Wayne before Manning lets go. Manning threw it right to him. Reminded me of O’Donnell in 95.
Peyton plays great all game, then just suddenly has a monumental mental lapse? In the end, Peyton didn’t have the heart to beat his hometown team and crush the city’s hopes.
by SteelerMessican on Feb 11, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If that's true, then avoiding Brees after the game doesn't make sense.
I don’t think Manning was ‘thinking’ on that play. Seemed to be a rare lapse for him.
by SteelersVT on Feb 11, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He had to make it seem he was upset.
by SteelerMessican on Feb 11, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, if the conspiracy theorists have no problem readily admitting...
That the reason Manning “threw the Superbowl” was to allow the Saints to win, because that was his hometown, will they then admit this….
The Seahawks threw their Superbowl in order for Jerome Bettis to win a ring in his hometown.
Well, why not? I have just as much evidence as you do. I mean, they did lose the game, and it was JB’s hometown… So in this jump to conclusions exsistence we have, I think that’s 100% true.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 11, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Go ahead...
Start hitting me with the +1’s anytime you want.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 11, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
-1
Seahawks had no vested interest in Bettis gettin a ring. Peyton’s hometown is New Orleans. He was sort of beloved by that city (now probably even more so).
I’m saying all this tongue in cheek though.
by SteelerMessican on Feb 11, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of thought you were...
But you never know.
Although, I’m sure if I dig deep enough, I can find some connection somewhere that would make it plausable.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 11, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In Manning's Defense
(I can’t believe I’m doing this, but…)
It’s not fair to say whether or not Peyton would succeed behind the Steelers O-line. Teams are built behind their QBs strengths. Could Ben succeed in the Colts timed precision pass game? I don’t think so, because if that were his strengths I feel like the Steelers would’ve catered to them. And don’t you think that the Steelers would’ve paid a little bit more attention to the O-line if they had an immobile QB? The answer is yes (remember that for all you who castigate the line and yet dump loads of love on Ben).
To compare Peyton and Ben in their first ten playoff games we see a more favorable comparison. Even though Ben’s record 8-2 is better than Peyton’s 4-6, Peyton completed almost twice as many passes accruing nearly 400 more yards with 16 TDs and 9 INTs. Whereas Ben had 15 TDs and 12 INTs. All in all, pretty close.
But consider the point differences: the Colt’s D allowed 230 points over those ten games, but the Steelers only allowed 120 points. That makes a difference.
I love Ben (even though he makes me crazy) and I don’t like Peyton, but I wanted to temper some of these numbers tossed out against him.
by 13thieves on Feb 10, 2010 12:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent points.
It’s just that none of us want to be reasonable, since we’re sick of hearing “the Great” stuck in front of Peyton’s name, when all our QB gets from most of the sports media is “Big.” I think that there is little dispute that the Steelers couldn’t have won either SB, particularly 05, without great contributions from the defense in particular. But then again, Peyton wouldn’t win so much of the time if he didn’t have people protecting him, people to throw to, and a defense that was at least adequate to keep IND in the game. If the world wants to talk about Peyton like he’s the greatest guy to ever pick up a pigskin, and as if he IS the Colts, then he has to expect to be reamed out when he doesn’t come through. Or at least we all think he should be…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by momma rollett on Feb 10, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember..
Peyton plays in a dome…that inflates his numbers.
by nycsteelerfan on Feb 10, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a valid point
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 10, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Technically...
He still has to perform well (or not well) in order to get those numbers. A dome only provides him with a greater oppurtunity to perform at a high level. You’re right though, it certainly helps a lot.
A lot of those picks he threw were outside, from what I remember (4 against NE at Foxboro). Changing from a controlled conditions field to an outdoor field where wind and snow is a major part of the equation has definitely effected him.
Without looking at dome versus open field splits it’s hard to say how much though.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why the F
would you make this argument here and then argue with me against it in another post? Do you argue with people on here for arguments sake?
The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games
by chewiesteeler on Feb 12, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just leave it alone, man...
You won’t even make a dent. Trust me…
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by SteelFever on Feb 15, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me throw this out there....
Pun intended.
Waddya think about Manning throwing the game for dad and NO? The worst pass all day, practically right at the defender. Considering all the routes the receivers were running all day, and how tight and accurate the throws needed to be, that last one was really too stupid to not be on purpose.
Waddya think? Huh? Huh? Huh?
by IronJake on Feb 10, 2010 1:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
woohoo - a conspiracy theory!
Just the thing for a snowy day when we’re all stuck at home! I like it, but I don’t believe it. But go ahead and convince me…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by momma rollett on Feb 10, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of stuck at home, whats that I hear about Pittsburgh being on martial law?
by SteelersVT on Feb 11, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If they are, I wouldn't know about it.
My car is under several feet of snow, and if I dug it out I wouldn’t be able to get anywhere. It seems unlikely to me, though – people are walking around my neighborhood, even late at night.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by momma rollett on Feb 11, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mayor Luke shut down the City so he could drive the Hummer around without traffic in his way.
Apparently he’s fulfilling a childhood dream. I know I’m proud of him.
by Phantaskippy on Feb 11, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
Just wow. Yeah, I don’t think so.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And they got Pete Rose to bet on the Saints...
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by SteelFever on Feb 10, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you might have something there.
I’m calling Roger Goodell.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by momma rollett on Feb 10, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FedEx Punxsatawny Polamalu to him while you're at it...
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by SteelFever on Feb 10, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That could 'fix'
a lot of things…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by momma rollett on Feb 11, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As in a tennis racket to the jewels?
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by SteelFever on Feb 11, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
could be a rackit
would’ve been better. Shucks, missed a good typo joke!
"Our O-line is developing, they just don’t show it." From "Buc It" a Bucs fan.
by alfresco on Feb 14, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Him and Favre. The love for the Saints runs deep in thier souls.
by SteelerMessican on Feb 11, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as we are banging on him....
He only lost 5 games in high school, as a three year starter. Did not win a state championship. Did not win national championship in college, but Tennessee won it the very next year after he graduated.
I guess is was the poor defense’s fault.
by scottd7 on Feb 10, 2010 2:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I guess if your biased against him...
There’s really nothing anyone can say to change your mind anyway.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But seriously, Tee Martin won the national Championship with pretty muh the same team Manning couldn’t. Peyton don’t win the big one.
by Phantaskippy on Feb 11, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Biased
I did admit in my first post that I don’t like the guy. Can’t help it. That having been said, I think it is an interesting case that has been made that the guy is not a good post season QB. He is still great, just like I think Marino was great.
I get motivated into these dicusssions by the media’s slobbering love affair with Manning. It makes me nuts!
by scottd7 on Feb 11, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you...
At times it is too much. (I wasn’t trying to be a dick before, by the way. Hope I didn’t come across as one, although I probably did.)
But, let me ask you this. Is your disliking of Peyton more because of the media’s attention then him personally? Because, if so, I think your problem is with the media more than Peyton. Which, by the way, I don’t blame you for at all. They’re a joke, at best. I just think there’s a lot of anger at him because of something completely out of his control, that being the slobbering love affair they have for him.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 11, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The media. I hate Peyton because they still whine about him getting robbed of the Heisman, talk about how many Super Bowls he’s going to win in his career (it drives me nuts when they do it for Ben too), and because he plays the game like a pretty boy. I like to see the QB’s get beat up, I like it when they get blood on their face and can’t play at the same level anymore. I like it when football breaks up the strategy fest with some good old-fashioned American violence.
It’s not the prettiest, most intellectual team that wins. It’s the most violent. Peyton shies away from any kind of contact, I like QB’s that are not afraid to mess themselves up.
by Phantaskippy on Feb 11, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My favorites are recent, Warner against the Pats in the Super Bowl, and Brady against the Giants in the Super Bowl.
by Phantaskippy on Feb 11, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to say
My dad asked me on Sunday why I don’t like manning. Hard to say. Why do fans hate on teams and guys? One reason is he never takes the blame for anything. Lose to the steelers in 05? “Protection problems”. Pick six in super bowl? “Porter made a great play.” Never heard him once say “I should not have made the throw”. Which is of course, true.
Don’t like him. Think he is smug. Overexposed. Overrated (?). He is great and I give him credit. Hardest working guy in the league. But………
I know I am biased, that is why I tried to carefully research this to make sure I am not just banging on the guy. (Like I do with Ray Ray).
Anyway, it is a good discussion. Winning a super bowl is clearly too important in QB evaluation. It does not make you a great QB. But……if you can’t win one, it says something. Manning does not put up points in his playoff losses. Why? I don’t know. Maybe he is “Overthinking it”. I would take him, but glad we have Ben. He is a playmaker.
by scottd7 on Feb 11, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was and is a good discussion...
And I’m really not trying to nit pick, but if you looked at his wins too, you would see that he indeed does put points on the board in the playoffs (41; 38; 49; 38; 29; 24 [in a loss]; 30)
Does he play at the same incredible level he plays at in the regular season, no. But, I suppose you can fault him for setting the bar too high for himself at times.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 11, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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