What does the Randle El signing tell us?
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 10, 2010 8:05 PM EST
65 comments
Am I the only one who is highly confused by the signing of Antwaan Randle-El ? What is he coming here to do ? Certainly not be the #3 reciever, we already have someone who is better suited to that then Randle-El ever was. Does this mean goodbye Stefan Logan? Limas Sweed?
It's pretty clear that the Steelers have had a shift in philosophy since MT has taken over, and I for one am a little concerned by it. Signing a Ryan Clark to a lucrative deal, and now bringing back Randle-El suggests the Steelers are no longer holding to the philosophy of player turnover like they did in the past. The Steelers have been successful the past 20 years precisely because they did not hold an emotional value to their players once they got into their thirties. They lost players, and they replaced them, that's the way it was. Sure, once in awhile we said goodbye to a player who still had good years left (Rod Woodson), but more often then not, it saved us in the long run, and allowed us to remain a constant contender.
I had faith in the Steelers FO when they adhered to this strategy. It allowed them to be flexible, and somewhat youthful. They now have the appearance of an aging team, and seem to be embracing it. This has not been what the Steelers have been about, and I don't think this philosophy will succeed. In my opinion, 2 superbowls the last 5 years have clouded the Steelers path.
Nothing against Randle-El, he was great to have in his prime, but that prime has passed.
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I hope
they dont give up on Logan, he did break the Steelers record for return yardage in a single season, and almost returned 3 to the house
Leadership
It’s nothing to worry about.. who knows it might be to light a fire under Sweed’s ass. I would guess that we won’t keep Battle unless ARE proves to be more worthy than him. Not surprised if Sweed is traded either. Clark is a playmaker, he knows the defense and we need him to help groom someone for the future; it’s not like we gave his an outrageous contract.
Trading Sweed
I can’t see it happening. He hasn’t shown anything in the league, so his trade value is going to be next to nothing. A lot of people have speculated about trading him to a Texas team or the Titans, but what could we realistically get? A 7th round pick, next year maybe? I think it’s probably worth more to keep him at least through this season for the chance that he gets his head on straight…if that happens, he’s clearly more valuable than a future 7th.
Sweed has been in the league two years
Right now the Steelers don’t have alot invested in him. I think it would be wise to keep him around for at least one more year to see if something happens with him. We are not looking at a guy who is a complete zero. He clearly has real potential, but issues. I see Vincent Jackson in SD, and I think just hold on to him another year. Of course that is my opinion, and the FO may be thinking entirely different.
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 10, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to think
battle and ARE will collectively light a fire under Sweed’s a$$. Here’s hoping.
Bad Andy, Good Pizza.
by count'em_six on Mar 10, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
Trade Sweed
But who will take him. Over the last few years, the disfunctional organizations like the Browns and Redskins have hired qualified GM’s. Damn. I think the only really disfunctional teams that may not realize he can’t catch are the Bucs and the Raiders. Houston may be a possibility. If we can get a 6th or 7th out of them great.
by Steeler Nation VA on Mar 11, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Not great
we spend a 2nd rounder on him, to only get a 6th or 7th is a bummer
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 11, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
They signed Clark
to a very reasonable deal. And Randle El was never going ot be the 3rd receiver. If you read the interview…he’ll be 3rd receiver if Ward or Holmes get hurt. Meaning he’ll be 4th behind Wallace.
Bad Andy, Good Pizza.
They have signed alot of 30+ year guys in the last year.
It has not been their philosophy in the past. Clark’s deal might be reasonable, but it is certainly no bargain. We can look at any of the deals they have signed in this span , and call them reasonable, however it goes against the grain of what has made them successful.
When Cowher was in charge there seemed to be a pretty clear strategy of not paying older guys unless they had to. Think about it, Hampton, Keisel, Clark, Harrison, Ward, ARE. All inked to extentions, and all past their prime years. Yes, all with the exception of Clark, and ARE, had good seasons last year, but it is a dangerous trend.
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 10, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
30+ years for an RB is one thing...but
1. Fat Casey is coming off a Pro Bowl year.
2. Ward just had one of his best statistical years in his career…2nd best year in yards and receptions. He didn’t even miss a game.
3. Harrison passed his prime?? One year removed from DPOY and passed his prime?
4. Deisel had one of his best (if not the best) statistical year of his career this year too. Johnny can you hook a brutha up here with some stats?
I must disagree with you pretty much on all counts. Resigning Clark is a very welcomed surprise. He compliments TP very well. He knows the defense. Plus he gives us time to groom some up and comers…hopefully.
There’s no dangerous trend. I think this offseason has been quite Steeler-like in my HO.
Bad Andy, Good Pizza.
by count'em_six on Mar 10, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
the tight rope you walk when signing 30+ guys isn't immediately after they sign
It’s what happens in the later years of their contracts.
What’s really concerning to me is that if you think our defensive front seven is old right now, just wait a couple years. Smith, Hampton, Keisel, Harrison and Farrior are all over 30 years old and they’re all signed through at least 2012. Just imagine starting the 2012 season with five of our front seven over the age of 34. Are you looking forward to that?
How about 2013, when Keisel, Farrior and Harrison are still under contract and they’re all at least 35 year old?
My biggest problem with it is that in past we always seemed to focus on paying guys for what they can do in the future instead of paying them for what they’ve already done in the past. Bad teams pay for what guys did last year or two years ago. Is that where we’re headed?
Wait til after the draft
The Steelers will have a new NT and ILB plus they have Ziggy in his 2nd year. Woodley is on the other side of Harrison. Who knows what other goodies they might come up with but, clearly, youth is beginning to be infused. These veteran leaders that know this D are very helpful bringing the pups along. Why do you think the D continues to have pretty consistent success year after year?
As far as the O goes. Pretty young as a whole. Ward being the grandpa and Hartwig being next, I think there is some pretty darn young and exciting talent already on board.
The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games
by chewiesteeler on Mar 11, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
i get what you're saying but at some point we have to pay for those contracts
Assuming that there’s a cap, we probably end up cutting at least a couple of these guys before they see the end the contract. In that case we end up with dead money.
Assuming that there isn’t a cap and we draft younger guys, then you’re left with overpaid backups or role players.
And in response to your question, one reason I think our D has been successful year after year is because we traditionally haven’t paid guys over the age of thirty. Guys like Gildon, Porter, Kirland, Woodson, Greene etc were all shown the door before their playing days were over b/c we valued youth.
Not great with contract stuff
but, if I’m not mistaken, most of those contracts are front-loaded so they don’t end up with dead money later.
Those guys you mention all had a lot of tread on the tires and a history of injuries, except maybe Greene, don’t recall him being injured. I don’t know, it certainly is a fine line. I hated seeing those guys go. It is quite possible that, had they kept some of those guys for the veteran leadership, they might have actually won a couple of Super Bowls in the 90s instead of just getting close. I never really agreed with letting those guys go. I “nearly cried” when each of those men you reference above was let go.
The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games
by chewiesteeler on Mar 11, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I don't dispute points 1-4
I acknowledged that. My point is simple: Guys over 30 get injured more often, and stay injured for longer periods. Harrison and Ward were essential guys to re-sign, I get that.
Clark, Keisel, ARE, Hampton? Not so much. They got stuck resigning Hampton because they never found his replacement. We had been saying so long see ya to Big Snack since the first game of last year. Nothing against Ryan Clark, but he is not a 4- 5 million dollar a year safety… well, now he is. You say he compliments Troy well, I say Troy would make just about any pedestrian safety look good. He covers more ground than any other in the NFL.
I understand alot of people feel comforted by all these re-signings. I get it, people don’t like change, but change was a big part of what made the Steelers successful under Cowher.
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 10, 2010 10:20 PM EST reply actions
As much as I hate to say it.
You have to change your signature….. sigh
Brian: Face it Peter, you get competitive about everything.
Peter: I am so not competitive. In fact, I am the least non-competitive. So I win.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Mar 10, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
Dammit all
It’s been a never-ending s**t storm of disappointment (aside the FA signings) these past few days.
BTSC Obituaries
OldManSteeler, ominously died two days before Superbowl 123 where the Ravens are set to attempt their 7th superbowl win, facing the Detroit Lions on Sunday. He was 86. His last words are believed to be "MALOR CAN SUCK IT!!!". Like friends and family, we can only guess what this could mean.
by HighSchoolSteeler on Mar 11, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Agree somewhat on the 30+ year old guys
Unless of course they take advantage of hyperbaric oxygen therapy…but I digress…
Hampton’s signing was hardly a last resort. “Stuck resigning Hampton” is a bit of a stretch, don’t you think? I think they wanted him all along and realize his value to this team given our defensive orientation. If people were saying “see ya Big Snack” it was because we assumed he’d be gone via free agency, not because we don’t think we need him.
Change is not a bad thing. Though I’ve gotten somewhat acquainted with MT (from a fan’s perspective) and his “slow and steady” approach, it doesn’t mean I oppose change. This organization has always conducted business in this way, and I’m pretty damn satisfied and trusting in that. We only have 6 SB’s to show for it.
Cowher made changes when he deemed necessary, yes. ST sticks out in my mind. At the same time, the Rooney’s were extremely patient with The Chin…ie if management subscribed to the “change is good” theory, Cowher wouldn’t have lasted 5 years. How many years was it until he won a SB? MT has had way more success than Cowher by this point in his career, so why would we want this regime to subscribe to the “change” hocus pocus?
Bad Andy, Good Pizza.
by count'em_six on Mar 11, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Not Hocus Pocus
Change did us well for many years. We never had an elite QB in that span, but Cowher still managed to keep us competing for SBs much of the time. Not against MT. I think he’s done a stellar job here, but his philosophy is a departure with what has been successful in the past for us
As far as Hampton, if we really wanted him all along, then they would have made him a priority last year. Instead we chose to sign Keisel, because many thought Snack’s best days were behind him.
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 11, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Don't get me wrong
I loved Cowher, but I don’t get the comparison. It took Cowher a long time to finally get that SB ring. MT made short order of it.
Hampton was absolutely a priority…we signed him. Why did it have to be last year to prove they really wanted him around?
Bad Andy, Good Pizza.
by count'em_six on Mar 11, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
The difference between Cowher and MT success : QB
Against Dallas we had someone that needed to manage. Against the Cards, we had a proven stud. If Cowher had a BB his 1st ten years, how many superbowls would he have won? At least one more, maybe two… hell, maybe three.
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 11, 2010 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
pure unadulterated speculation :)
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 11, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
even unfornicated
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Speculation, yes. That's what we mostly do on this website.
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 11, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Uh Blog I mean
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 11, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yea
but we at least try to have some facts and reason behind our speculation, there is none behind that assertion, no offense
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 11, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Facts and Reason?
Did we forget that it was a QB 4th quarter meltdown that beat us in the Dallas game? Or the failure of O’Donell, and Stewart to ever lead a 4th quarter rally in the playoffs? I’m not making this stuff up, this was the Steelers of the 90’s. Great D, strong o-line-running game, and pedestrian QBs who couldn’t step up when asked to. For all of BBs problems, we know one thing, when they need him to be clutch, he very often is, unlike our QBs of the Cowher era
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 11, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
and Deisel
doesn’t even play the same position. Signing him “instead” of Big Snack doesn’t make sense.
Bad Andy, Good Pizza.
by count'em_six on Mar 11, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
Big Snack's postion is more specialized.
If anything, he would have been a bigger priority. We resigned Snack because we simply had very few options at NT otherwise.
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 11, 2010 8:14 AM EST up reply actions
I am with you
The more I think about the AR-E signing the less I like it.
I think it creates negative competition in a position where we have a ton of big egos at play – all of whom need to be kept happy.
I think it comes at the expense of signing high quality guys at positions of need
AR-E adds nothing at this point on ST
Looking back at all of our problems last year – lack of a quality fourth receiver never struck me as one of the big ones.
Negative competition
I don’t think such a thing exists.
Bad Andy, Good Pizza.
by count'em_six on Mar 11, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
I see the ARE signing as pointless
I don’t think Sweed will be motivated by it. He can either play, or he can’t.
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 11, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
and all he does
Is point and drop the ball every time he gets a first down….even though it ticks me off.
Competition breeds escalation. It’s not like we have a TO or Chad Johnson on this team.
Bad Andy, Good Pizza.
by count'em_six on Mar 11, 2010 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
There's nothing wrong with Tone's celebration
Joey Porter used to talk smack the whole game. And he did that leg kick every time he made a big play.
Larry Foote used to do that foot stomping thing where he mashed his foot in the ground and swung it backwards.
Kiesel does that guitar/bow & arrow(?) thing when he gets a sack.
Hines Ward did the river dance once.
Did you hate all of those?
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 11, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
I was agreeing with shleeve
I pointed out that the worst we have at WR is a guy that points and drops the ball. Meaning that’s not all that bad. I personally don’t like his timing on occassion. I wasn’t specific enough.
I used to do Porter’s leg kick in my own living room, and Diesel’s bow and arrow celebration is kick ass. So no…I don’t hate all of those.
Bad Andy, Good Pizza.
by count'em_six on Mar 11, 2010 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
I do
I can’t stand show boating
The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games
by chewiesteeler on Mar 11, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
FIRST OFF
Randle El is not done as a WR in the nfl.
Second Hines is a physical WR and may start slowing down. who do we have to back up or SPELL hines? No one thats who. Antwaan Randle El can and will be a valuable slot receiver.
Also what if Santonio gets hurt? same story as hines….NO DEPTH. Randle El provides an experienced shifty small wes welker type to provide flexibility. plus he is a capable QB. although extremely short.
I think we can officially call limas sweed a bust. with mike wallace we dont need sweed. El is icing on the cake
stepah logan? nothing more than a return man and backup RB. I dont even consider him a WR no matter what his listed position. he is more of an rb return guy.
stillers forums.com may you rest in peace. you rat basterds.
I think...
It tells us that the Steelers are looking to call Limas Sweed a bust and dump him. I think when Ward retires, which could come within the next year or two, they’d like another year of real veteran assurance. Randle El would provide that. Mike Wallace is still young and of course Holmes is a superstar. Randle El gives you a cushion for Hines.
This team, I think is pretty stacked on offense, excepting the O-line. The defense and special teams now need the focus. For defense, it’s about getting some young guys drafted, since this defense is entering the twilight years and the special teams… Well, to be quite honest, it’s a mystery to me.
Remember that ...
it is two Super Bowls and the league’s best 9-7 team ever. Three of five solid years seems to support folks knowing what they’re doing vice the other direction.
How do you figure the best 9-7 team ever?
My vote would be the Cardinal team we beat in the SB who was three minutes from hoisting up the Lombardi themselves
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 11, 2010 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
uh
they were considered the worst team to go into the playoffs that year, they just went on a run, cinderella’s clock hit midnight on 2/1/09
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 11, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
Yah, and we were real kick-ass this year.
Lost to Browns, Raiders, Chiefs,Bears. Not to mention the games we nearly blew in the 4th quarter. Oh, maybe those were the best last place teams ever?
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 11, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn't speaking
of us. just the cards.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 11, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think that team was a cinderella last year
They had that division wrapped up about week 8, and fooled around the last 4 or 5 weeks. At the end, that was a scary looking team
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 11, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Look, everyone benefits from competition, if their ego is too big to handle it then go cry in a corner.
All our WR’s have questions attached to them, can Hines keep going or will injuries and age take their toll?
Is Holmes going to show up every week, and stop dropping so many passes?
Can Wallace build on last season now that defenses have plenty of film on him?
Is Randle-El still a good WR, can he get it done on a team with quality WR’s?
Can Sweed’s athleticism, height, and work ethic overcome his mental issues, can he put it all together?
I’m confident in Holmes and Wallace, I think Randle-El will benefit from being back in our locker room, and I think the speed and play making of the other WR’s will benefit Ward and lengthen his productivity.
Most of all I think this shows the Steelers plan to spread the field and give Big Ben and Arians the chance to prove themselves the way they want to do it. If they can’t get it done with these Receivers they never will.
ARE signing
Makes me think the Steelers have given up on Sweed. We have already signed another veteran reciever. Steeler fans should want Sweed to be the guy. If he’s not, that is a big miss by the Steelers FO.
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
I'm a huge fan of Sweed
One of his biggest apologists. However, if the FO and Tomlin really think Sweed cannot be that guy, than I would accept them giving the boot. How long can we reasonably wait for a guy to “figure it out”? I would love for them to keep him and wait for that break out, but for how long can we keep a non-producing, drop-prone (albeit on a small sample size) WR on the roster?
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want them to bury me upside down, so that my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
than = then
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want them to bury me upside down, so that my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
um
one more year????
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 11, 2010 8:41 AM EST up reply actions
If Battle and ARE look better in camp
Then why wait that long?
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want them to bury me upside down, so that my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
Because
I am clingy. lol
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 11, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
At least one more year hopefully
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Mar 11, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
all it means is we're loaded at WR this year
Steelers were 5-6 deep at WR last year (Hines, Holmes, Wallace, Sweed, Tyler Grisham, Joey Galloway), now looks like we’ve got 8 on the roster (Hines, Holmes, Wallace, Sweed, Tyler Grisham, Randle El, Jason Chery, Brandon London). Training camp looks very competitive, and I see some of these moves as shoring up the special teams.
Also this:
Before anyone thinks Randle El (5 feet 10, 185 pounds) will replace rookie sensation Mike Wallace as the team’s No. 3 receiver, understand this: The Steelers have several offensive packages in which the third receiver can be either Wallace or another player, depending on the formation. It was that way last season and it will continue to be that way next season with Randle El.
And the 4 receiver sets. Nothing to worry about. Always good to have a guy who has averaged 50+ receptions the past 3 years. Plus another veteran with a decent public image (especially in Pittsburgh) and familiarity with the franchise. Probably a good thing for the organization right now…
The Bengals
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
who do they have behind joseph and hall?
i dont remember them being too stacked at CB. at least not enough to match up with wallace/are at the same time
child please
Who dey
Who dey
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
its the draft
In my opinion, we are committing to older guys out of necessity. Who is nipping at there heals? We have not successfully drafted/developed a d lineman in years. Our drafts have been good at the top, and only so-so after. The reason we sign guys like Allen, Randle El, etc is that we don’t have young guys waiting.
We need to do better in the mid rounds of the draft.
I agree with this.
This is likely the underlying problem. So when we see the re-signing of 30+ guys, it tells me that the FO doesn’t have alot of faith in the young guys behind them. Which means we haven’t been taking care of business in rounds 3-7. Teams that don’t draft well for a three or four year stretch are not likely to be top level for very long.
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
Personally, I am ecstatic that ARE is coming back. The O-line needs good leadership, both on the field and in the locker room. Not that I am doubting Ward’s abilities whatsoever, but let’s just say the Steelers may be suffering from a little self-esteem issues after this past season. Even if ARE doesn’t stick around for more than a year or two, he will definitely be helpful in bringing the O-line back up to speed.
I was a little upset (ok, devastated) when it appeared that Ryan Clark would have to move away. Even though his name is not always in the headlines, he is part of a good team with Troy, and definitely offers good defensive plays as a Safety. His transfer would have been our loss. He is a proven safety, and the Steelers do not want to gamble on someone else that would have to spend the 2010 season proving themselves. Thank God that MT and the Rooneys fought for Clark the way they did!
"God blessed me with the talent I have." - Deebo
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