The Boys Are Back in Town: Foote and Randle El Ready to Ignite Steelers
If Larry Foote is good at anything, it's getting you excited.
He made a fairly pedestrian tackle of Rashard Mendenhall in Pittsburgh's 28-20 victory over host Detroit last season, and he jumped up, Stomped, and got his defense fired up.
Tell me you didn't smile when you saw that.
He did the same thing in a game against Minnesota early last season. Detroit actually competed with the eventual NFC North champions, and Foote was helping stuff the Vikings high-powered offense for a half.
As he quickly found out, though, one half was probably too much to ask from the hapless Lions.
SteelerBro and I attended the Vikings/Steelers game at Metrodome in 2005, and there was a point where Foote made a tackle behind the line of scrimmage, did The Stomp in SteelerBro's direction. SteelerBro jumped up, waving his towel, and Foote pointed at him, yelling and sort of motioned his arms in the air, encouraging the noise.
He's a emotional and vocal leader, and he comes to a defense that desperately needs both.
Antwaan Randle-El got a rather ridiculous contract from the Spendocrats in Washington after that 2005 season. He coupled some decent punt returns in with a few gadget plays, and it turned into a five-year parlay where he didn't produce much as a third receiver, or punt returner.
The Steelers' symphony played on, winning two division titles and a Super Bowl without him. But Pittsburgh did it without an outstanding punt returner, and without a veteran receiver who wasn't accused of domestic abuse (see: Wilson, Cedrick). Stefan Logan is a capable kick returner, but punt returns weren't a strength last season. A slew of Steelers returned punts in 2008, but contingency returner Santonio Holmes was the only one who provided any explosion. Nate Washington did a decent job, but his El-like departure after Pittsburgh's latest Super Bowl championship brought in Mike Wallace, an impressive but inexperienced player.
Moves for depth? Yes. Not eye-popping? Indeed. Veteran players with ability who bridge the gap between two championship teams and play within a familiar system? Now we're on the right page.
These signings in no way reflect positional controversy. But they are both well-liked players at a low price who can provide a team in a transitional period between veteran leadership and youthful contribution. And for us nostalgia fans, chills go up our spines thinking of No. 50 and No. 82 making plays, no matter how routine, and hopping off the ground, excited, providing a spark to their teammates.
Pittsburgh gets a boatload of intangible factors from two relatively young players who lead as if they're 10 years older. Both know how to win.
Most importantly, neither of them won with their previous teams. Like many free agents who leave Pittsburgh, they saw low levels of individual success and even lower levels of team success. They're hungry. They're healthy and ready to be contributors to a championship level team.
In other words, they are perfect additions to the Steelers.
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Beats the crap out of the Chad Brown, Willie Williams resignings!
I’m not hoping for an injuray to any of our starters, but having someone fresh to spell Farrior from time to time can only be a good thing, and Randel El is fearless and shifty in the middle. Can he still pile up YAC, probably not, but I’ll still take him on a reverse with an option to throw or run any day.
"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"
at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.
by PA ARMY OFFICER on Mar 17, 2010 8:30 AM EDT reply actions
except arians
wheres the fullback I mean tight end come into play on the nope can’t do it
by billsteelcity on Mar 17, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's the rub
Those plays with El were under Whiz and Cowher. There might be, with a better OL under Kugler, a chance for Arian to make use El and it would be negligent not to.
I am reserving judgment on BA until we see what he does with an improved line and new weapons in the mix, but he is on probation.
Double Secret Probation?

I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.
BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.
by carolinaeasy on Mar 18, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
farrior
I would be most excited if it was the other way around if Farrior was spelling Foote or LT. I think it is time for the nation and the steelers org to realize his time has past him and he is becoming a liability on D. I thought signing an ilb was a priority this off season for said reasons. I loved everything that Jimmy Farrior has brought to the Steelers since his signing. Truley a class act by all means, I hope he can swallow his pride and step aside for the youth of the organization.
by TheCommish on Mar 17, 2010 10:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Farrior > Foote
In every single year (including last year), James Farrior has had more tackles than Foote. He had over 100 tackles, 5 passes defensed, one forced fumble, and an int this year, playing on a superior defense, and yet you’re saying his time is up. I mean, Foote was never second place for Defensive Player of the Year.
You seriously want Foote to be the starter (in a position he’s never started in) and Farrior to back him up?
Farrior, Foote, Timmons and the ILBs in a 3-4
I don’t think anyone serious is suggesting that Foote replace Farrior at the mack. I think there are people who are suggesting that Timmons might be able to replace Farrior at the mack and then Foote would take his old job at the buck.
To understand why people think this might work, you have to get a bit of a sense of what is asked of each of those two roles in the type of defense we run. I am probably not the best person to do that, but I will give it a shot and smarter football minds should step in.
Here is a good article on the packer’s 3-4 defense which modeled after the Steelers. As you can see the buck (or Strong Inside Line Backer) in our system is essentially asked to take on blockers and be a tough banger in the trenches. Foote did that with great success in Pittsburgh for many years.
Last year Timmons stepped in and took over that role. While he is a much more gifted athlete than Foote – Timmons never really had the skill set to bang around at the Buck. He is on the other hand, much more suited for the Mack . The Mack has to have a nose for the ball. While the linemen and the Buck clog the line and fight in the trenches the Mack is like a seek and destroy missile shooting towards the action. He needs to be smart, fast and good in space. Farrior has done a great job at this position for most of his time with the Steelers. As RickVA points out below and others have noticed he seemed slower and less capable last year, missing some big open field tackles late in games. This may be due to age, or could have been due to the added weight.
Bottom line is it is possible that Timmons, while not as smart and savvy as Farrior – could have better physical tools to play the Mack right now, in which case Foote could take back his role at Buck. I don’t think we would switch Farrior back to Buck – although he did play it when he first came to Pittsburgh.
Anyway, as I said, that’s my understanding of it. Let the smarter football minds weigh in.
by SteelerBuddha on Mar 17, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Hypothetically
If we moved up to grab Rolando McClain, could he be a Buck type or would he compete with Timmons to be the Mack of the future?
by barnerburner on Mar 17, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That's about right
Another way to look at it is the mack is the smart one and the buck is the physical one. I think the hope is Timmons is able to eventually play the mack, but his athleticism has basically no rival, and he can play either. He’s just not experienced, and Farrior is one of the smartest linebackers you’ll find. I think he’s gonna stay at the buck, in my useless opinion.
Foote was not brought in to spell Farrior. That’s not being debated.
I’m not sure McClain is the choice at 18, either. I think Brandon Spikes of Florida shows enough all-around ability and smarts to be groomed for that spot, and I think he’ll be on the board when the Steelers draft in the second round.
by Neal Coolong on Mar 18, 2010 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions
he’ll be on the board.....
That’s interesting. I saw that big jay had him falling to 85. Wow, did he take a tumble. He was almost always in everyone’s top 40 until recently. I really like how he tackles. I assume that some of that toughness and grappling ability would translate into blocking well at the buck position. It must be because he is so slow that he fell so far. If we were to take Spikes, I think we would eventually need more speed at OLB position beside the buck…. which isn’t going to happen….
"Believe you can and you're halfway there." TR
by Concomitandt on Mar 18, 2010 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions
No to Spikes
Character issues. And he had a lot of time to train for the combine and UFs Pro Day and tested poorly for both, which shows a poor work ethic. That won’t change once he gets some money in his pocket.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 18, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Other than one eye gouge, what has he done?
Not trying to be facetious, but honestly curious as to whether or not there was more.
And to me, having a lot of time to work on something, and then coming out and doing poorly isn’t poor work ethic. Him not working is poor work ethic. If he was working, and still tested poorly, that’s limited ability/ agility. If he wasn’t working at those things you have a point though. Do you know he wasn’t working at them?
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 18, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He's run a faster 40 before
And he likely wasn’t injured. Several scouts mentioned how he looked very slow and how it seemed as if he wasn’t in shape.
And he has had a few other “issues” that you don’t know of.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 18, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I take it back
Yeah…that 5.0 40 puts him somewhere later on Day 3.
by Neal Coolong on Mar 19, 2010 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Very good points
Right now, I just worry that we don’t have a position for Timmons that will allow him to shine. He’s young and athletic, but not as good in space as Foote (for the buck position), and not as smart as Farrior (for the mack). And we certainly don’t need him as an OLB.
He might be an upgrade as Farrior/Foote get older, but I don’t know that he’ll ever play as good as they have in their best years, whichever position he settles in.
Washed up?
Maybe. There certainly seems to be a faction of fans that feel that’s the case. Let’s remember that he is just one season removed (I belleve) from a pro bowl year. I also distinctly remember that after he signed his contract extension (funny that the FO would screw up and offer an extension when he had one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.) he announced that he would play the season twenty pounds heavier than the previous year (218. Relatively light for an ILB). This would certainly explain why he appeared to be a step slower. Of course, a better solution than unemployment just might be shedding some or all of those 20 lbs.
I remember him talking about adding weight
and I firmly believe that it was that extra 20lbs. that had him playing so poorly at 238 instead of his more natural 218lbs.
I remember that Jack Lambert looked “like some guy on the street until he was in pads” according to a couple of opponents.
Lambert had a Hall of Fame career with four Superbowls playing at 6’4"/220lbs.
Weight issues
Actually, I remember reading that Farrior had weight issues in the other direction. Specifically, that he’d lose weight during the course of the season, no matter what he ate. He’d start the season at his target of ~240, and drop 20 lbs by the playoffs. Can’t remember where I read that, though.
I think we need to calm down on the Farrior thing
hes had one bad season, it just happened to be last year. I need a repeat offense in order to be convinced that he is no longer a reliable ILB.
Roll with it
We’ve got the fuel, the air, the bored out high compression motor. Now we need that spark. Fire these young boys up. Randle El and Foote man will do that. Keep an eye on the sidelines next season and I’ll bet you’ll see 17 and 82 doing a lot of talking ;)
Brian: Face it Peter, you get competitive about everything.
Peter: I am so not competitive. In fact, I am the least non-competitive. So I win.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Mar 17, 2010 9:33 AM EDT reply actions
You're excited about Randle El?
Is he your 4th, 5th WR? A slow and small WR that once made a good throw in a SB game. He’s one of the worst punt returners now, no explosion. He loves to go east and west, not north and south. I’m praying he’s your return man all year. Santonio Holmes makes me shit my pants, he should be your return man.
Smart football teams don’t use their #1 WR as punt returner unless its in desperation.
With the 18th pick of the 2010 NFL Draft the Pittsburgh Steelers select Florida QB Tim Tebow. (not a RB!)
Swaggin
The things that antwan randle el brings to the table cannot be touched. They are intangible and imperative to a champion team’s success. I would suspect someone from Bmore would realize this. El’s intangibles were never realized in Wsh bc he was surrounded by an underachieving organization. Needless to say he will bring some swagger back.
by TheCommish on Mar 17, 2010 11:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh and our return man will be the NCAA all american punt returner out of UCF…his name is Joe Burnett and you will all be acustomed to it by the end of camp.
by TheCommish on Mar 17, 2010 11:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not sure if Burnett will return punts
But it won’t be Randle-El. As many have pointed out Randle-El is no longer and effective punt returner in this league.
by SteelerBuddha on Mar 17, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
the job is his to lose
last year the rookie lost it with two fumbles early in pre season which opened he door for Logan. This year I expect the sophomore to step it up. Think about how lost a rookie can be in week 2 of training camp…this guy was one of my favorite value round picks in years. He has all the tools and is downright electric returning punts. Time will tell but I am expecting bigger things from him in 2010. I wouldn’t base all of your judgement of a players success based upon a rookie campaign on a defending champ. those are overwhelming circumstances.
by TheCommish on Mar 17, 2010 11:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
One last thought
Since we introduced ourselves a few months back I realized I am older than many of you at a robust 29. If I can pass any of my life experiences to the younger crowd, this one is a must.
Enough with the banter!!!…It is St. Patty’s day. Get to the closest bar and start early today. For my non drinking friends grab yourself a cornbeef sandwhich. We are all Irish today, now let’s celebrate in true Pittsburgh Rooney fashion and celebrate.
by TheCommish on Mar 17, 2010 11:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Lets Raise a glass!!...
….To better special teams and a more solid redzone scoring offense…
@B
by Andrew Bush on Mar 17, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll drink to that
But the more I drink the more I drink :/
Brian: Face it Peter, you get competitive about everything.
Peter: I am so not competitive. In fact, I am the least non-competitive. So I win.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Mar 17, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Smart NFL teams
Seems like it’s the only league where it’s not a good thing to give your playmaker more touches…
Consider it unleashed!
Yeah because Ben needs no more touches
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Ha!
I don’t see what everybody complains about. The coaching staff told him to work on his release during the offseason and that seems to be what he’s doing.
Consider it unleashed!
ok
now you guys are just taking the piss
by SteelerBuddha on Mar 18, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
how ironic.....
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Mar 18, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
He won't be returning punts
and I think its reasonable to think that a guy could have an impact in a 4th or 5th receiver spot when he was a 2nd receiver on another team.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 17, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
He had 50 rec for 530 yards and 0 TDs last year. You’ve got 3 way better WR’s already. He’s a special teamer for you guys.
Nope, he's Hines insurance.
He’ll be a very effective slot receiver, and on occasion a fourth wideout.
Something about former QBs – they seem to be able to find the holes in the defense. Randle El didn’t fit the Redskins idea of offense (hell, few of their players did, including their QB).
My heros have always been Steelers...
So what?
Who was throwing him the ball?
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
by chewiesteeler on Mar 17, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
4th WR
Randle El will likely be the 4th WR for the Steelers.
Is he a game-breaker who will rack up +1000yds/10 TDs? Heck no. But I do think he is a better player than Limas Sweed/TylerGrisham (~1/15yds – 2009 4th WR) or Sweed (6/64 yds – 2008 4thWR).
by S0rcerer1984 on Mar 17, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
50 rec for 530 yards
is great for a 4th receiver… what did your 4th receiver get last year?
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 17, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
stats don't matter on teams
BBs patented no look to El in the slot on the goalline is priceless.
by TheCommish on Mar 17, 2010 11:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He fits the system
And when you are worried about Hines knocking the head off of one of your safteys, or Holmes, and Wallace blowing the top off the coverage, guess who will have plenty of room to run underneath matched up against a lb? He is a good fit.
I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.
BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.
by carolinaeasy on Mar 17, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Just having anyone besides Cambell throwing to him makes him look 100% better
Brian: Face it Peter, you get competitive about everything.
Peter: I am so not competitive. In fact, I am the least non-competitive. So I win.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Mar 17, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Not ANYone...
Jamarcus Russel makes Cambell look like Drew Brees…
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
hello
A slow and small WR that once made a good throw in a SB game. He’s one of the worst punt returners now, no explosion. He loves to go east and west, not north and south. I’m praying he’s your return man all year.
thanks for sharing your opinion!
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
Slow? Good one!
He went from a 4.38 to a 4.5 at worse. See him with a real QB before throwing the towell!
Consider it unleashed!
Exactly
It’s like saying Randy Moss sucks because he had Andrew Walter throwing to him.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 17, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
It's just funny seeing a ravens fan tell us anything about a wide receiver
and to belittle El’s throwing of a Superbowl winning touchdown is just silly. But that one didn’t count because Seahawks fans are crybabies, right?
With regards to the signing, I like the fact that we have a capable backup for Ward that won’t deplete the rest of the receiving core. Even though #86 had one of his best years in 2009, we can’t expect that to continue forever.
I don’t know how anyone could complain about the Foote signing, that is perfect. He should have never left.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
There's more to a team...
…than just your elite players. While I understand you guys are pumped up because you finally got a receiver that can produce, but we’ve got three of them already. We had to add depth at both the flanker and punt return positions.
by Neal Coolong on Mar 18, 2010 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions
These guys have got to be
really happy to be back in the B&G. No matter how much you’re paid, losing is never fun. And knowing LeBeau’s defense will make Foote that much more effecient from the get-go.
Why are we excited about Randle El? Well, as you may know, we have another small, slow receiver, his name is Ward. He’s been pretty effective for a number of years despite those characteristics.
My heros have always been Steelers...
Nice blog post
I totally agree with your sentiments about these two.
Foote singing is Farrior Insurance policy
I don’t really see what’s to be excited with this signging. If Foote couldn’t replace Farrior on 3rd down two years ago, I don’t see him doing it this year. I think this is an insurance signing. It’s to create more competition and to have a fall back plan if Farrior has really declined as I would contend. (He got burned by Ray Rice in the Baltimore game on a critical 3rd or 4th down) I didn’t see him making plays like in years past. If training camp / early season reveals Farrior has declined, Timmons moves into Farrior’s 3 down LB spot and Foote or Fox takes over the other spot. If Farrior hasn’t declined, I’m wondering if Foote even makes the team. I haven’t seen the contract numbers and perhaps that will detemine it.
by steelerfaninphilly on Mar 17, 2010 11:44 AM EDT reply actions
On the subject of The Foote Stomp
Anyone else remember during the Detroit game when Willie Gay did The Foote Stomp after a big stop? I laughed my ass off, but others around me (one or two, IIRC) said it was classless. I thought it was hilarious! Agree with me, or them/him?
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
It wasn't classless
Just harmless fun. Sounds like some people need to take the sticks out of their as*es.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 17, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of people need to have a stickectomy...
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
When I get off the John I usually do the "Randy Moss"
Some call it classless. I call it Hilarious.
Brian: Face it Peter, you get competitive about everything.
Peter: I am so not competitive. In fact, I am the least non-competitive. So I win.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Mar 17, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The Stomp
Friends inside the league do that all the time. It’s not disrespect, it’s just a sign of recognition. Besides, you know as well as I do Foote was running his mouth the entire game. That’s what he does. Willie was just ribbing an ex-teammate.
I found it funny myself.
by Neal Coolong on Mar 17, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you!
I got so much crap from those guys for laughing. They didn’t get it…
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
He fits the system
But does he fit the offensive scheme? He was here with Whiz, not Arians, so he never played for this Steelers Offense.
I didnt like these signings, except on a locker room atmosphere way. Foote was expensive. I believe his 3 year will be a 2-year deal.(will be cut on the last year) and Randle El ? Really, he was important for our 5th ring, but what could he do now? He wont be the slot, he wont stretch the field. he isnt a possession receiver. He isnt good returning punts anymore.
Now, how about Kevin Mawae?
Because, in all seriousness, right now we could put a yello lab at center and get the same results we’re getting now.
We need one more free agent, and what better place to do it than adding a borderline HOFer at center? Heck, considering the history of Steelers centers, playing for Tomlin would be what finally puts Mawae where he belongs.
Unlikely Observer...
Mawae has struggled with larger DT’s, and we have them a plenty in our division. Plus, we just resigned Hartwig to an extension. Regardless of the opinions of posters, myself included, coaches seem more than content with Hartwig. I can’t remember the post, but one of the Steelers front office guys talked about Hartwig being the best linemen we have.
I think the level of expectation we have for our offensive line is a little high when you take into account the playstyle of our signal caller. They aren’t great, but Ben doesn’t do them any favors either.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 17, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Randle El's role
I am at a loss as to why people are convinced the Randle El signing is an upgrade in the punt return game or provides some new offensive spark. The facts do not support this conclusion.
In 2009 Stefan Logan averaged 9.3 ypr on 30 punt returns to Randle El’s 6.0 ypr on 17 returns. In fact, Randle El has averaged less than 6.5 ypr the past 3 year, and has averaged more than 9.3 ypr only twice in his 8 year career, 2003 and 2005 (12.2 and 10.3 respectively). In the past three years, Randle El has averaged 52 rec, 617 yards (11.9 ypc), 1.7 tds. In 2009, the “inexperienced” Mike Wallace had 39 rec, 756 yards (a league-leading 19.4 ypc) and 6 tds (or 1 more than Randle El had the past 3 years total). In fact, Randle El only has 15 receiving tds in his entire 8 year career. Mike Wallace is already their top deep threat and fastest player, and he more than proved his ability and willingness to do the dirty work of a Steelers WR, blocking and going across the middle. Whether or not Randle El is technically going to be the “3rd WR” or not, he is going to demand touches, which will come at the expense of Wallace. They should have stopped with the signing of Arnaz Battle, who is much more versatile and valuable to than Randle El as a special teams contributor, and is more than capable of providing WR depth in case of injury. In fact, he has 2 career 50 catch seasons, only 1 less than Randle El’s 3 career 50 catch seasons, and Battle has 11 career receiving TDs, in one less season (7 vs. 8 for Randle El).
This signing made no sense on anything other than a PR basis. Yes, they are not making a huge financial commitment, and Limas Sweed has proven unreliable at best, a bust at worst. But, the need at WR, especially after signing Battle, was not so much that they couldn’t give Sweed one more season to try and prove himself. Or they could have drafted a 4th or 5th round WR in what is considered the deepest draft in a very long time and saved some money and gotten younger.
This team is aging very rapidly, and this move does nothing to solidify the future of the organization. All it does it block any efforts to get younger for 2-3 years.
by Tim Tomczak on Mar 17, 2010 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
How does it block efforts to get younger?
The idea is to win now, not later. We’re not a rebuilding team.
What team has been as successful as us with a young roster? I seem to remember the Pats winning three Super Bowls and almost winning a 4th with a veteran roster. Same thing with the Colts, although they’re starting to get younger.
Give me a team full of veterans.
by StoneColdSteel on Mar 17, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay George Allen
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 17, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
You have to have a mix
you need youth for their energy, to keep things freshand replace the veternas, but you need veterans to teach/mentor the youth and show them the right way to do things. we do need to get younger in certan areas, but we still need the veterans to develop the future.
Things can always be worse....
There are only 53 roster spots
It’s tough to draft and retain young talent when the rosters spots are occupied by aging, overrated, underproducing veterans (i.e. Randle El). Especially at a position that is not in need of a production boost. WR is arguably their strongest position outside of QB and LB.
I’m all about winning now if you’re signing guys to upgrade the position. This position didn’t require upgrading, so why not use the roster spot to develop another young player with bigger upside to ensure continued success beyond the next 2-3 years?
And, who’s to say younger guys can’t produce better than some veterans? You don’t think the defense could have used an influx of youth last year? You’re point about the Pats and Colts relying on veterans to win is spot-on, but the Steelers have enough veterans/leaders. They are potentially returning all 22 starters from 2009 (18 of whom started on the 2008 SB champs), depending on the Ben situation and on what should be an open competition at RCB between Gay, Lewis, and Burnett.
By the way, great George Allen comment by NYSteelersFan4. It’s always nice to find the rare Steeler fan that appreciates NFL history and not just Black and Gold history.
I'm a perpetual student...
But thanks. There is always more to know, and always time to learn. I love the game of football, plain and simple.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 17, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Great and thoughtful write up
Consider me a Tomczak fan! ( ;
Seriously though I think you are spot on about Randle-El blocking the development of a young guy. Young receivers are an interesting bunch. As we have shown in the past, you can find a young guy in the 3rd, 4th or deeper who can flower into a fantastic NFL receiver, can play ST and learn under the top guys.
I love AR-E but I wonder if adding him was worth it. I could see there being a shortage of balls to go around considering all the guys we have at WR. While AR-E is a high character guy, I can’t see him being a positive force in the locker room if he only catches 10-15 balls next year as our fourth receiver.
by SteelerBuddha on Mar 17, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
wow you guys!
steelerbuddha you and tomczak need to chill and let kevin colbert do his job. they no more about the steelers than you two.
Chillin'
Don’t worry 123over. I am chillin.
I think Tomczak is too. We aren’t freaking out. Just sharing our thoughts about the way that free agency played out. It’s what makes this site fun. People argue (often about football).
Kevin Colbert definitely knows more about the Steelers than I do. But, I am pretty sure that my posting here is not going to interfere in any way with him doing his job.
I also think that Bruce Arians knows more about the Steelers than all of us, but that doesn’t mean we should never discuss our thoughts about his offense.
Bottom line, I remain skeptical about the value of the AR-E signing.
I may well be wrong. But the whole fun of this board is talking it out – and trying to make intelligent arguments. I think I’ve presented one.
by SteelerBuddha on Mar 17, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
I appreciate the kind words and support. I have no issue with Randle El and appreciate his past contributions, but I think everyone is over-romaticizing the impact he can make. I just don’t think, at that position, his contribution outweighs impeding the growth of younger players.
by Tim Tomczak on Mar 18, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
You don’t think the defense could have used an influx of youth last year?
Yeah, second-year man William Gay and second-year Ryan Mundy made me completely forget about veteran savvy…
by Neal Coolong on Mar 17, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Gay was terrible, but...
I’ll concede Gay as he was terrible, but Mundy was not really part of the 5 game losing streak, and the ancient Carter/Townsend tandem was out there getting torched.
by Tim Tomczak on Mar 18, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Watch the fourth quarter of the Oakland game
And tell me Ryan Mundy was not a complete liability. He got beat for 20 yard completions twice, picked up a helmet-to-helmet penalty, then took out his own guy on a separate helmet-to-helmet hit.
by Neal Coolong on Mar 18, 2010 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions
"He got beat for 20 yard completions twice, picked up a helmet-to-helmet penalty, then took out his own guy on a separate helmet-to-helmet hit."
I’m just shaking my head slowly back and forth and looking at the floor. That 4th quarter was a low point that we hopefully won’t see for another decade. How could we go from 2008 eye of the tiger to that garbage in one year? Geeze. Gradkowski was just throwing up bombs and no one was doing anything about it. Pathetic. That look Gay had after he got knocked out summed up the whole worthless season perfectly.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
?
I don’t think we could have read a more clear “missing the forest through the trees” argument.
So lemme boil this down simply: You want to get younger by not signing veterans, and just using draft picks to lock in our 4th and 5th WRs?
You’re one bad step away from putting a 3-WR set (something the Steelers run very often) in the hands of one rookie and one second year player.
“Veterans know how to prepare for games better than rookies do. It’s just that simple.” – Hines Ward
Did you see how many times we threw last season? You’re ok with a second-year guy and two rookies occupying those roster spots? You conveniently don’t point out Mike Wallace as a rare exception of a rookie receiver making a big impact. You may remember, we spent a second round pick on a receiver with all the physical talent in the world. You should remember him, he’s the guy you said was “at best unreliable.” You want to put the depth of that position solely into the team’s ability to pick up a starting caliber receiver on Day 2 of the draft? A 4th receiver has to be good enough to replace a starter in the likely event of an injury. Did you know this was the first year Santonio Holmes managed to play all 16 games?
I’m glad you’re not in charge.
How many Super Bowls has Arnaz Battle won? You throw out a stat like 11 career receiving touchdowns vs. 7, but winning means nothing? Last I checked, Randle-El played on a lot of very run-heavy Steelers teams, especially at the goal line, but what’s even more ridiculous is the thought that you’re going to find 70 catches, 900 yards and 10 touchdowns at a 4th receiver’s price. Randle-El is a pro’s pro. He works hard, he lives a clean life, and he does everything he can to win. I’m sure he’s sorry his career punt return total isn’t to your liking, but no one’s asking him to be Devin Hester. He won’t even be the main return man, but he’s an option who is good enough of a receiver to dress every game. The fact is, he is more versatile as a football player than Logan is, and decisions on the 48th, 49th and so on spots on the roster are decided by that.
by Neal Coolong on Mar 17, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also, there is room for draft picks on this roster. Are we going to be drafting WR’s? No. We don’t need to. Wallace and Holmes should be quality WR’s for a good time, and we don’t draft guys to develop as third and fourth WR’s, there are plenty of FA’s to fill those spots, IE Randle-El. As for him, 50 catches and 500 yards in a horrible Redskins offense is consistent. We know what we are getting with him, and he isn’t overpaid. As for Ego’s, if someone in our WR core can’t handle competition, please let us know, because there is a front door they can walk out anytime.
As for the defense, they could have used an influx of health last season, or some good veteran depth. Hey look we got veteran depth. There are spots at LB open to win, Bailey, Andre Frasier, Keyaron Fox (who is all of one year younger than Foote and not nearly as good) Derrick Doggett; there aren’t young talented LB’s not getting chances to shine because we resigned Larry Foote. If we draft an LB they will stay on the roster.
Places we need players now are NT, DB, OLB, and O-Line. Allen replaced Carter at Safety, but a young pick can easily take that spot or a depth DB spot from Townsend or somebody. NT or DE will have a spot on the team without anyone good getting cut, and at O-line there are spots to win, even if we did get a backup OT.
We put a whole bunch of Band-aids on a whole bunch of holes. If we get good players in the draft we aren’t going to sit them for a veteran they are outperforming. That’s why Foote lost his starting job in the first place.
But seriously, Seriously Randle-El over Sweed and Foote over Fox isn’t causing this team to suffer, it’s upgrading our roster.
by Phantaskippy on Mar 17, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
perfect skip i said foote would come back the last thing we need now is a LB and everyone is mad now cause they were wrong guess what guys we need a CB hahahahahahaha
LB
If there’s a future mack LB who falls lower than his value displays, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them take him, but I think they need to concentrate on providing some depth at OLB. Maybe a guy who can play both?
I’m still calling FS Earl Thomas at 18, though.
by Neal Coolong on Mar 18, 2010 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Again
in the 3-4 you never have enough linebackers. No one has been proven wrong yet because the draft is still over a month away. Patience my friend. We have no idea who the Steelers will pick up, I still think the best value would be McClain. Foote is no spring chicken, he’ll be 30 too this year and the only young viable inside linebacker we have is Timmons. Do we need our CBs to play better, of course, again the only way I see the steelers getting a CB in the first is if Joe Haden falls. CB just isn’t a primer position in our defense. Thats why the last first round pick at that position was Chad Scott in 1997. If the QB is getting pressured and sacked you don’t need shut down corners the ball is either coming in where the CB doesn’t have to have a lot of talent to make the play or the QB is getting sacked. The Steelers problem is that teams spread them out. They use a quick running back or a good receiving tight end to exploit our coverage. They want to have the quick RB up against a slower LB or a good receiving TE against a slower LB. Why do you think ray rice had so much success against us? It wasn’t the CBs. You could really see this in 2008, when we played teams like Dallas and New England, they’d hit us with draw plays and screen plays and use a quick RB (Tashard Choice) and he would squeak through. When troy comes back a lot of coverage issues will be taken care of, so we need a Safety who can take over if Troy gets hurt again. As far as CB goes, you only take one of those if you feel like Burnett and Lewis can’t do the job. If we take a CB high in the draft its because of the lack of faith in those two guys or Haden fell. Personally I don’t think we’ve seen enough to make that call. Also any CB we get will likely not contribute this year, burnett only got on the field because gay was doing so bad. Lewis was hurt last year. So I think we’re still going to go LB, S, NT in the first two rounds, you draft for the future these FA pickups are to win this year because 2011 isn’t guaranteed. But we’ll see.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 18, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
the good news is
We seem to be swinging back towards BPA. We can add receiver to QB and TE as things we will not draft in the first round, but apart from that I think we are pretty open to taking the best player on the board.
by SteelerBuddha on Mar 18, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea
I still am hoping Sweed pulls through. We need a tall, fast receiver to be a play maker for us. I just don’t know if his head will ever get in the game.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 20, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
great counter Neal
To some good points made by Tomczak. Good stuff all around.
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
by Michael Bean on Mar 22, 2010 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
you're crazy
you make no sense tomczak. he’s a good sign that we needed and at cheap price who’s been there. they’re not going to stop looking at younger guys that could help the team but when you have a chance to improve your depth, you go for it. so chill and watch the game and leave the transactions to the organization.
Both......
Foote and Randle El will be solid,steady players,and always seemed to be classy guys. Great signings to bring both back.
Welcome back
I love the signings, the main reason being flexibility, especially for the LB corp. now there is depth, and Foote and Fox can be rotated in and out or step in if one of our other backers goes down (provided Foote doesn’t start already, ya never know). Randle El isn’t what he was but will be a solid #4. I cannot wait for the draft, I truly hope they bolster the secondary, although I am torn between them taking a CB #1 or drafting big Mike Iupati #1. The thought of him and Kemo plowing openings for Mendenhall is pretty enticing. Bring on the draft!
by BlackandGoldSSgt on Mar 17, 2010 6:40 PM EDT reply actions
Anyone else see Ben on South Park tonight?
Funnier ‘n hell. Butters: "Me I just, I just can’t stop thinkin’ about bush." Ben: “I heard that.” A must see!
Farrior is old but...
Lets keep one thing in mind, before we judge Farrior based on last years performance. Last years defense was decimated by injuries. They were missing key players on all 3 levels of the defense (Aaron, Troy, and LT off and on). That affects the dynamics of the group a lot. I’m not saying Farrior hasn’t lost a step or two, i’m just saying we should evaluate him when the rest of the defense is healthy before we give his job to another player. Now, that being said, I think Foote will only help the team, both on and off the field.
The primary reason Randle El was signed...
Was to be able to replace Ward when he is injured. We had some heated discussion late last year about Ward playing hurt and how it affected the game. The conclusion was a hurt Ward was better than Sweed. This year, Ward being out will not be a problem because ARE will be able to step in seamlessly. I see the FA signings this season as depth because last season we were exposed depth-wise and it cost us some close games. Don’t worry, there will still be room on the roster for phenoms or youth.
Foote Benefits Everyone
Bringing Larry Foote back has the potential to pay multipule dividends for the Steelers.
They now have five starter capable linebackers. Remember how smart the STeelers looked when they were able to take Max Starks off of bench when Marvel Smith went down?
Everyone is focusing on how Foote can benefit James Farrior, but his presence also potentially benefits James Harrison as well.
There is no downside to bringing Foote and Randel El back, although the perhaps the Steelers motive for doing so is more worriesome…. For more on these latter two points, you can click here.
by Hombre de Acero on Mar 18, 2010 12:01 PM EDT reply actions
Wex, D. Lolley believe E. Thomas could be Steelers next playmaking CB at no. 18
Do you guys think this guy could start at CB for the Steelers this year? Or do you think that is too much of a projection pick? I’m kind of torn. Mike Mayock believes that E. Thomas is the best playmaking DB in this draft, and even have him rated above Eric Berry on his board.
Would you guys go with Thomas or a playmaking CB/KR/PR like Kyle Wilson?
I think the beauty of our spot is that if both of them are gone there will be another talent worthy at a position we need, good OLB, DB, and OL will be there, not all but one or two of those positions. The second round there are some DE and DB’s that will likely be there, and Navarro Bowman just got a workout scheduled and he’s a third round projection. We could see some major youth coming in on defense this year.
I really would love to get Wilson or Thomas, even if Wilson doesn’t fit our system naturally.
by Phantaskippy on Mar 18, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I also think that the jump between those pair of players and also put Joe Haden and Kyle Wilson and it is
quite normal endind up a little bit messed up, at least, I also end up like that. At this point Mayock´s opinion just feel a little more of stir?. Been that way at this point the only I hope is Earl Thomas or Joe Haden or for the better be confident with Our FO.
O sales tickets,...and let D rest a little, and D Win Championships.
Going back to the Header, I feel like a bomb that Mr Limas Sweed ask the FO to be released or traded
when he know that Randle-El was back in B&G?
Toughs?
O sales tickets,...and let D rest a little, and D Win Championships.
You can say that again
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Well...
I dunno what to tell ya, Limas…this is how the business works. You’re still cheap, the FO is hoping you can take it as a challenge and react to it in a sense of competition. Or, he can just use the facilities to continue working out, and bide his time for when he gets released. We’re hoping to get a seventh-round pick in 2013, and considering we now have five receivers on the roster without him, I’m sure that’s the best we could get.
I’m sure we’d rather trade him out of the division, cuz you know full-well Cincinnati is circling him like the castoff pirahnas they are. He’ll have a contract offer from them about 45 seconds after the ink dries on his release papers.
by Neal Coolong on Mar 19, 2010 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Going back to the Header, I feel like a bomb that Mr Limas Sweed ask the FO to be released or traded
when he know that Randle-El was back in B&G?
Toughs?
O sales tickets,...and let D rest a little, and D Win Championships.
I didn't mean literally
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
This head movie
makes my eyes rain.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Mar 19, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
More of a "Log" guy myself.
"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe
by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 20, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
What about your nose goblin collection?
You know, the one on the underside of the coffee table? Oh, how is your pet shaved yak?
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
Hey New to SB Nation
Long time Steelers fan….can’t wait to kick off the new season fresh! I like the Randal El and Foote coming back! Now hopefully Ben will be back with us too!! haha
by MercedesFreak1991 on Mar 21, 2010 6:18 AM EDT reply actions
welcome freak
it’s going to be a great season this year indeed
"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.
by kick him in the head on Mar 21, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
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