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Reflections On The Santonio Holmes Situation

Sigh. I really would prefer to not have to speculate about what may or may not have happened with Santonio Holmes in an Orlando nightclub earlier in March, and how his future may or not be subsequently affected by what exactly transpired on the night of his alleged wrongdoing. I don't really have a long-winded narrative about a 'change of culture' in Pittsburgh or anything like that, but like I did in the wake of Big Ben's alleged incident, I'll share some of my thoughts on both Holmes and the disturbing trend of malfeasance and poor judgment that has rocked the Pittsburgh Steelers organization this offseason.

* Let's start by acknowledging that the suit that has been brought against Holmes for allegedly throwing his drink at a woman in an Orlando nightclub on March 7th - just two days after Ben Roethlisberger was accused of sexual assault roughly 400 miles northeast of Orlando in Milledgeville, Georgia - is a civil suit. In other words, no criminal charges. Holmes faces a civil suit for assault and battery and the alleged victim will be seeking unspecified damages in excess of the jurisdictional minimum of $15,000.  

On the one hand, there are plenty who might say 'all you need to know is that the woman just filed a civil suit. She's probably just looking to make a cheap easy buck from someone who has plenty to burn on covering up mistakes that may not be the type of honest mistakes that we excuse ourselves, friends and family from, but are also not the types of evil transgressions that are worthy of lawyers, courtrooms and potential repercussion from NFL headquarters in New York.'  

On the other hand, according to Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk, circumstances that night may have affected the way that the alleged victim proceeded with recounting the incident to law enforcement:

She claims that, outside the club, she asked a police office to "reprimand" Holmes for his conduct. The complaint then alleges that "he" (it's unclear whether the pronoun refers to the officer or Holmes) "proceeded to inform the plaintiff that he was an NFL football player and that he could not face criminal charges." Mills also alleges that Holmes then "offered to give [her] money because he was a [sic] NFL star and could not get into trouble."

Bottom line is Holmes won't be facing any criminal charges for whatever he did on March 7th. He may be coughing up some money to a woman that perhaps deserved to be treated rudely for her behavior. That's not to say I condone throwing a drink at somebody when they've upset you. That's bush league, period, if for no other reason than somebody else is going to have to pick up the mess when you throw a beverage all over the place unnecessarily.

That's trivial though and what custodial staffs are there for I suppose. There's also the fact that you have to question somebody who decides to lash out in that way when they're upset, even if they have a legit reason to be pissed off. We all get angry, we all react in ways that we regret. But not many of us vent our frustration with somebody in the heat of a moment by throwing a drink on a woman. Maybe and regretfully one might call a an ill-intentioned woman an unseemly name or two, but nothing like resorting to drenching her with a cocktail.

Star-divide

* Okay, enough about that evening. I realized something about the sequence of events when thinking about all of this today. Let's travel back in time just a bit to March 12th when Holmes joined an Atlanta radio station to talk about his Super Bowl heroics the year before and the latest news surrounding Ben Roethlisberger's off field legal problems. In the interview - after a number of fluff questions had been asked about his jaw-dropping catch to win Super Bowl XLIII - Holmes was asked about two things. (Btw, that Bunk guy who wrote that post on that interviews site, that's me. I helped found that site a few years ago and continue to write on it when I can. I mention that only because it's why I even thought of the odd chronology in the first place).

Anyway, Santonio was first asked about reportedly butting heads with Coach Tomlin at various points throughout the 2009 season. Here was his answer:

"Yeah, but he's one of those guys that's always on your case to make you a better person. And if he wasn't that person, he wouldn't be doing his job. I have to commend him for what he's done for me. At the time, I didn't [understand], but in the long run, I definitely have to see the big picture when it's all said and done."

Okay, nothing really there exactly in that answer, but when this interview was initially referenced in a daily six pack the day after the interview was conducted, the commentary revolved was more focused on Big Ben and Santonio's thoughts about high profile athletes heading out to night clubs where not much good seems to happen. What I thought was more interesting (at the time at least) was the fact that Holmes was butting heads with Tomlin last year. For what? I don't know. Perhaps his role in the offense? I'm quite curious but I really have no idea. All I know is that Holmes played outstanding football for the vast majority of the 2009 season. I was as impressed by his development and performance last year as I was with anybody on the roster. Still, it's noteworthy that Holmes feuded with Tomlin over whatever the subject may have been in what was essentially a contract year for him and his future with the six time Super Bowl champion Steelers. 

One more thing about that interview before moving onto a a few more thoughts about Holmes' future in Pittsburgh. It really is quite ______ (you fill in the blank with any adjective expressing astonishment) that Holmes was asked about falling prey to the perils of nightclub life five days after Roethlisberger's incident, and just three days after his own mishap in an Orlando joint. Nothing had gone public yet, but there Holmes was on Atlanta's most popular and widely heard sports radio station talking about Big Ben's situation and about the broader subject of athletes and whether or not they should frequent nightclubs at all. Here's what he said at the time:

"You say that now, but when you're out having fun, you're just having fun. Like I said, you're entitled to go wherever you want to go. You're not expecting those things to happen, you're going to have fun and enjoy yourself. And when these things occur, how do you defend yourself?"

Again, I just find the sequence of events to be very interesting. Nothing that he said was all that novel or revealing. Just the fact that he had his own unfortunate incident two days after Big Ben's, and was on the air commentating - however indifferently and politically correct - just a few days after that. 

Hadn't really thought of this until just a second ago but who's handling his PR? Maybe his crew hadn't learned of the alleged episode by the time Holmes hit the airwaves in Atlanta, but if they did, why would they allow Holmes to go on the air to talk about unfortunate nightlife situations that he himself had just days previously subjected himself to? Who knows, maybe 'Tone went about that on his own without telling his agent and other handlers until a later date when the woman who was allegedly victimized had made her intentions clear by filing a civil suit. 

* Let's talk Holmes' future in Pittsburgh. If I had to guess right now, I'd sadly have to say that I don't think Holmes will be continuing his career as a Steeler beyond the 2010 season. I really, really hope I'm wrong in this regard because I personally think that Santonio Holmes is one of the game's most promising (yet already accomplished) young wide receivers.

I saw Santonio Holmes do amazing things on the football field during the 2009 NFL season. Sure his numbers may not have been gaudy once again. But I saw Holmes take over games multiple times last year; I saw him prove himself to be a better blocker than he'd been in his first three years combined; I saw him show more maturity on the field last year than in earlier years in terms of the way he kept an even keel about him and competed consistently each week without major swings in his performance and focus level; and oh yeah, I saw him put up career highs - by a long-shot - in receptions and receiving yards while playing a complete 16 game season for the first time in his short professional career.

I don't think 'Tone's future is done in Pittsburgh by any stretch of the imagination, but I think you can kiss goodbye any chance of him getting the type of extension this offseason that so many former Steelers have received during the summer before the final year of their contract. That ain't happening this summer with Holmes, even if he was guilty of nothing more than reacting in a less than classy way to an overbearing and conniving woman. With the labor situation nowhere near close to being resolved, I think the Steelers can take a 'wait-and-see' approach with Holmes' future with the organization.

For one, the Rooneys can keep a close eye on #10 all season long to see how he conducts himself on and off the field. Feuding with Tomlin won't stand this year if he hopes to return for 2011 and beyond. Obviously no more incidents off the field will be tolerated - even if they don't result in criminal charges. If there happened to be a lockout to start the 2011 season, well, then that might give the Steelers even longer to assess whether or not Holmes had proven himself worthy of a contract extension by virtue of keeping his nose clean since March 9, 2010. 

* Hey, why not, this has gone long enough but here's one more thought about the potential domino effect from this incident. Actually hold up...

* Before we go there, let's say this. Anybody who tries to argue that either Santonio or Ben will be suspended by either the Steelers or the NFL for more than a game or two are crazy and not worthy of your time or attention. It doesn't take a whole lot of research to realize that the two of their track records aren't worthy of a prolonged suspension - at least as measured by how Roger Goodell has governed in the past. And that's not to say that Goodell has been soft in any way shape or form. It's just that neither are walking on legitimately thin ice in terms of the NFL being forced to contemplate suspending them for a more than a game or two. At most. There have been others that have yet to be punished by the league for a multitude of mistakes greater than those turned in by either Ben or Santonio.

Let's be clear about that though. Both Ben and 'Tone could very well be suspended for one or two games to start the 2010 season. I'd rather not write much more than that there's a historical precedent of guys with somewhat similar 'sheets' getting reprimanded by the league during the Goodell tenure. And for reasons I'd rather not elaborate on, it might make more sense for the league to hand down similar punishments to both Holmes and Roethlisberger rather than try to make some sort of subjective assessment of who deserves to be suspended for one, two, or possible even three or more games than the other. 

* As I stated out the outset, I have no sort of moralistic or kitschy angle on all of this. Roethlisberger and Holmes have made mistakes, both recently and in the past. The extent of those mistakes is debatable both in a court of law (at least for now in regards to the latest allegations levied against the two of them) and in the court of public opinion. The Rooney family and Kevin Colbert now have a decision on their hands about how they want to negotiate the court of public opinion questioning whether the Steelers franchise is worthy of all the accolades heaped on it for the way it conducts business and of the reputation it has for being one that is bigger than any one individual.

Do I think an article penned by Mike Florio stating that the Steelers have established themselves as the new Bengals is a sign that the top brass of the organization needs to look themselves in the mirror? No, not necessarily. But the bottom line is all eyes are on Pittsburgh, and not for good reasons. Sadly, I think the Steelers will let 'Tone walk after next year regardless of what they think of him as a talent. I think they're confident enough in their abilities to plug holes in the roster to let him walk and subsequently reinforce their no-nonsense ethos as an organization. With Big Ben, I think it's a bit naive to think they'd decide to part ways with Ben for his alleged transgressions this past two years. Is he on thin ice? Yes, I think so. And another incident like the one brought against him this past two offseasons probably means all bets are off, but for now, I think he'll be just fine with the organization so long as he keeps his nose clean from here on out.

As for Holmes, I don't think he's done in Pittsburgh after this year no matter what, but if he were to remain in the Black 'N Gold beyond 2010, it might come down to him A) playing at a real high level all year...B) deciding deep down that he wants to be a part of something bigger than himself in Pittsburgh...C) and maybe even having the organization's hand forced by any number of factors such as Hines' health, Mike Wallace's development, Antwaan Randle El's ability to prove himself more than a ceremonial signing, etc, etc.

* Just to make sure I'm concluding in a disjointed fashion, let me go back to contract extensions. Mike Tomlin's contract extension. Poor guy. I think this string of bad publicity this offseason diminishes the likelihood that Tomlin receives the contract extension he deserves. That's just my opinion, but I think it would be mighty foolish to let go of a leader like Tomlin. But let's face it, this organization only hums if the paying public is happy with who they're paying their hard earned dollars to cheer for. Winning matters...more than anything else...but winning with law-breaking, self absorbed egos impresses us fans a lot less than some might think. I don't think at all that the majority of Steelers fans believe Mike Tomlin is responsible for creating a culture of unaccountability with the Steeler roster, but I personally think it's a safe bet to assume that the Rooney's will decide not to re-up Tomlin this offseason in light of the off the field problems of two of the team's bigtime offensive stars. I think Tomlin now has to hope for his players to keep their ass in line and turn in a successful 2010 season - i.e. a playoff berth at least.

That may not be fair (and I don't think it is, personally, because it's not Tomlin's job to babysit), but it's still probably safe to bet that the Steelers will be willing to extend the contract of their head coach during such an unsettling offseason, not to mention the fact that the squad is coming off a season where they missed the playoffs. I think Tomlin's here to stay for a long, long while. But for PR purposes, I think the extension will have to wait for a bit longer than usual. Maybe even into the season, which is fairly unprecedented for Steelers coaches and for head coaches throughout the NFL in the final year of their contracts.

* Allright, enough from me. I don't even know how to go back and review what I've written, but I'm glad I took a day to at least think about a few things before just racing to post something when we all heard about the unfortunate news earlier on Monday morning. 

Please respond to my all-over-the-board thoughts with some more of your own. Sorry for the disorganized nature of it all. Time for bed. Been a long day trying to think of something to write in response to the latest unfortunate setback in Steeler Nation. Hopefully the skies get bluer and less cloudy for the remainder of this already too tumultuous 2010 offseason. 

-Michael 

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Good ol' Blitz
That’s not to say I condone throwing a drink at somebody when they’ve upset you. That’s bush league, period, if for no other reason than somebody else is going to have to pick up the mess when you throw a beverage all over the place unnecessarily.

That’s exactly the kind of stuff I expect from you. Common sense from a different, measured perspective. Yes, of course it is distasteful to throw your drink at someone because someone else has to clean it up!

’Tone’s latest episode sounds like complete BS to me. Oh, the cop forgot to file a police report because ‘Tone is a big NFL star… Sorry complete BS. I’d bet there was never a complaint and never a report to not write in the first place. Just tryin’ to get that money! It’s gonna take a lot more than that nonsense for me to sell out one of our Superbowl MVPs!

I spent all last night sucking down the venom from the rest of the United States of America while reading all the PFT garbage. The rest of the league, especially the AFC North HATES us!! They really, really HATE us! Also, I have bad news, none of our Superbowls count, and we’re never going to win the AFC North or go to the playoffs ever again!! Oh no!

I have one thing to say:

Jealousy is a bitch.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Mar 30, 2010 7:01 AM EDT reply actions  

It sure is

teams are loving this because they wish they had our success, I’m not worried, Ben and tone will be on the field, tone may miss a game or two but we’ll still come back and have a good year.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

YOU STEELER FANS ARE COMICAL,

Your star QB puts himself in the same situation that he was in last offseason…bigben needs to learn what the word NO means. Something has to be really wrong with his brain to even have his name in the same setence as sexual misconduct. Super Bowl mvp holmes is in the police blotters again for throwing a glass at a female because she would not move when he told her to do it. She deserves to sue him. Alot of NFL teams will be watching how this unfolds because alot of players have been suspended for much simpler misdeeds than big ben second SEXUAL misconduct in the last 18 months. Pacman was NEVER CONVICTED OF ANYTHING but was still suspended….buy the way GO BENGALS!

Kenneth Lewis Moore

by lightskin350 on Apr 2, 2010 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

it's by not buy

and by the way scram troll

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Apr 2, 2010 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also, I have bad news, none of our Superbowls count, and we’re never going to win the AFC North or go to the playoffs ever again!!

Took you long enough to admit it. Good job buddy.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Mar 30, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

Ben petition:
http://www.repetitionr.com/repetitions/ben-roethlisberger-needs-to-stop-getting-into-trouble/e0ccf0b0-8cec-102d-8483-0030483394fa/success

by Zachary Beard on Mar 30, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sad;But a True Honest Opinion

   I sadly have to agree with most of your opinions here.In both Ben and Holmes case’s. I can understand over indulging and temporarily loosing control of your emotions.But I can’t condone it. Especially in Ben’s case, though he may or may not be guilty of a crime. His was still more of a choice of bad judgment you would expect from some one in their first or second year in college. Partying is a fun thing, but you have to know your own limitations. So you can be a stand up person at all times.

The more I learn -The less I think I know! Just enjoy reading and sharing.

by steeler junky on Mar 30, 2010 7:21 AM EDT reply actions  

bruce arians is thinking . . .

 . . . “this kind of thing NEVER happens to a tight end . . .”

by VIN K on Mar 30, 2010 7:34 AM EDT reply actions  

I bet you Jeff Reeed is the next Steeler to get into trouble

“He dyed his hair TOO blonde, it is a public distraction, and he will either have to pay 750K or spend 3 years in prison.”

Ben petition:
http://www.repetitionr.com/repetitions/ben-roethlisberger-needs-to-stop-getting-into-trouble/e0ccf0b0-8cec-102d-8483-0030483394fa/success

by Zachary Beard on Mar 30, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

jeff reed huh?

 . . . is it already his turn again?? . . . sheetz employees are already hunkering down i bet . . .

by VIN K on Mar 31, 2010 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm kind of hoping

that Jeff skips his turn this time…

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Mar 31, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whether it's garbage or not, it still reflects badly on the organization

Let’s face it: this isn’t the 70s when you could do whatever the hell you wanted and no one noticed. The microscope is huge these days and two of our team’s most high-profile stars don’t seem to realize that. First and foremost, I love these guys as football players, but their failure to understand the effect that their acting like arrogant punks is having on the franchise is alarming. I think Blitz is right about resigning Tone: if the Rooneys are still the Rooneys, they’ll want to restore some order, and if it comes down to re-upping Woodley, who’s been a true Steeler on and off of the field, over Tone, who going back to his Ohio State days has demonstrated a tendency to act like a jerk, I think they’ll do it.

The Dude, by the way, is indifferent to these shenanigans…

"Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."

by cliff harris is still a punk! on Mar 30, 2010 7:35 AM EDT reply actions  

Au contraire mon frere

This aggression will not stand, man.

The Dude would be highly disapproving of Ben and Santonio’s treatment of their lady friends. You’re absolutely right though: this is not the 70’s. Aggression against women will not stand, whether sexual aggression (as Ben’s cases appear) or physical aggression (as Tone’s cases).

Ask Joe Namath. HIs Suzy Kolber rant would have just been another Broadway Joe antic in the 70’s, but now he was forced to apologize and seek alcohol treatment or be scorned by the football and media worlds.

Finally, the players do seem more arrogant and obstinate under the Tomlin reign. Tomlin talks a big game and I think he is a fine coach, but he does not seem to have an iron fist. Despite the colorful characters of the Cowher era, there were few public/legal transgressions. His speech last week now goes down with his “unleashing hell” speech as two massive fails on the follow through.

by CarlWeathersMustache on Mar 30, 2010 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well-played, Mr. Weathers. The Dude stands corrected...

"Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."

by cliff harris is still a punk! on Mar 30, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

i agree tomlin doesnt have an "iron fist"

but i wouldnt blame these incidents on him. as i said below (i’ll save you from my rant), these guys were making dumb decisions before tomlin came to the team…under cowher. but i’m not blaming cowher either.

by t1mmy10 on Mar 30, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree on nearly all of what you say.....

…but I think the Steeler ownership has determined that Tomlin is the man for the long haul, and they fully understand that there are limitations on his control over the lives of jerks with hundred million dollar contracts in the off-season.

I wonder if the off-the-field shenanigans and stupidities might actually spur the Rooneys to re-up Tomlin soon….just to give him the additional authority and the real vote of confidence that he needs to deal with all the jackassery that has beset the Black and Gold.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Mar 30, 2010 8:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Would seem a very astute move to re-sign your head coach, one of the outstanding young coaches in the league, a product of the Rooney Rule that the owners of the franchise helped write, if nothing else then to get a little good news out there amidst the bad.

Big Ben seems to have too much time on his hands, and too many hands on his time.

by sctx109 on Mar 30, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

As Blitz said, it would be a bad PR move right now...

But he deserves it. It’s just going to have to wait.

If you were the CEO of a company, and it came out that your CFO was skimming money off the top and members of your personal staff were screwing around and doing nothing all day, and you got a raise out of it, would that not make the company look bad? Similar case here.

"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe

by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 30, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the relationship is being overstated

Using your analogy, this would be like one department skimming funds, while a young, highly talented manager of another department was setting record profits and experiencing tremendous success early in his tenure.

Would you not want to show how, even when one aspect of your franchise is acting underwhelmingly, another has shown itself to be quite commendable?

Big Ben seems to have too much time on his hands, and too many hands on his time.

by sctx109 on Mar 30, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, but the problem is most people don't think that logically...

Which is why it would look bad to most. I see the upside, you see the upside, hell, we all do. But outsiders, in the court of public opinion, will be more than likely against the move.

It’s a question of how much do you feel you can handle really. If the front office feels as strongly as most fans do, they will resign him. But the other BS that goes along with it has to be factored in when thinking about the timing.

"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe

by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 30, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

but just be nitpicking

but it’d be an extension not a raise…and these employees were doing it before the CEO got there. it’s far harder to stop something after it’s been going on than it is when it first starts.

by t1mmy10 on Mar 30, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

The draft will tell us a lot.

If they take a WR in the first 3 rounds, then Tone is most likely gone.

by JHolmes on Mar 30, 2010 8:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Nice Write Up Blitz

I knew around the end of the year in my statistical posts I was saying I would be pissed if the Steelers did not resign Holmes. In my mind, he was our future Hines Ward, that WR who would call Pittsburgh his home for his entire career. You name it Holmes has it. Big play ability. Great running after the catch. Great hands. Tremendous route running. Ability to beat double teams and zones. And good blocking. Everything, I could as for in a WR.

However, this most recent incident has left me an awful feeling. Like my mother said to me many times when I was a child, “I am not mad at you, I am just disappointed.” I am disappointed in Holmes. With so much on the line in a contract year…why? After your past problems and that moving interview you gave about it prior to the SB…why? Just 2 days after your QB made a stupid decision in a VIP lounge…why? Ben Roethlisberger may be called the Big Stupid, but this certainly throws you in the conversation for stupidest act of the off season.

Providing you your Daily Six Pack. If you have something good for a six pack, shoot me an email at john.stephens8@yahoo.com

by John Stephens on Mar 30, 2010 8:53 AM EDT reply actions  

My thoughts

First, I am a bit surprised that you don’t think that the Steelers will give Tomlin an extension this offseason. This may not be his personality, but if you give him reason to wait until next offseason (when, I believe, his contract is finished), he may just jump to another team. I’m certain that some team would pay Tomlin elite coach money if the Steelers don’t lock him up, regardless of the off the field issues with Ben and Holmes.

As far as Ben goes, at this point he just needs to stay out of the clubs for a few years. Even if he’s not guilty in either case, his reputation is diminished already, and he needs to consider that. Holmes’s future may have a lot to do with Sweed this season. If he actually steps up, then with him and Wallace on the roster, Holmes becomes expendable. I’m not sure that I agree with those that think Holmes is in the same company with other elite WRs in the league like Fitzgerald, Moss and company. I have seen him make great plays, but I’ve also seen him be very inconsisent at times.

One more, off-topic, point. 790 the Zone hasn’t been the top sports station in metro Atlanta for at least 5 years. 680 the Fan has more listeners, largely due to a larger coverage area. Just a little nitpick there. :)

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 30, 2010 9:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Holmes isn't expendable

Even if Sweed has an outstanding year. Holmes still isn’t expendable. Think about how long Ward has to play. We still need holmes to complete a good trio of receivers. I still have visions of a Pittsburgh offense with sweed playing to his full potential dancing in my head but that offense still includes holmes.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Wallace and Sweed develop

then El can be a solid number 3 for a few years. And, we can draft another WR in a couple of years when Ward’s ready to hang it up.

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 30, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

So you think

wallace or Sweed can be a number 1? I prefer not to have to draft another WR in a couple of years instead focusing on other areas on the team. If we keep holmes we wouldn’t have to worry about that. I don’t see wallace as a #1 maybe a solid #2. Sweed? Well he needs to show something but right now I see him as a #3. thats my opinion, holmes is the only one that can be and is a #1 right now.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hines Ward is still # 1 but Holmes has an upside, Ward on the downside.

Santonio Holmes 79 catches, 1248 yards, 15.8 yards per catch and 5 TDs
Hines Ward 95 catches, 1167 yards, 12.3 yards per catch and 6 TDs

That's how you be great!

by trusteelfan on Mar 30, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I know

it will be a couple of years before Hines is a liability at WR. But he will have to retire sooner or later and you have to ask yourself who will be the #1 receiver. Take Tone out of that discussion and you have Wallace, Sweed, Battle, Logan, and Grisham. I don’t want to have to draft and WR, hope that he has his head on straight and develops into a #1 receiver. Look how long it took for Tone to get his first 1000 yard season. This is his 5th-6th year? Thats why Holmes isn’t expendable, we need that #1 WR to keep the window open for a couple of years till we’re talking about Holmes wearing down.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Trade of Free Agency

I totally agree. Holmes may be a very good #2 but I’m unsure if he is a fit for # 1. He doesn’t dominate like a Larry Fitzgerald. He’s more of a Anquan Boldin (Batman’s Robin). Anquan Boldin has the potential to be a # 1 but the jury is still out on him as it is for Holmes. If push comes to shove I believe we will make a trade or get a # 1 WR very FA.

That's how you be great!

by trusteelfan on Mar 30, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

No way

we get a #1 WR via FA too much money, I think holmes can be a number 1 we’ll see.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sweed

FA was a push comes to shove situation. If we lose Holmes we have to have a # 1 by all means for our 100 mil QB to throw the ball to otherwise it makes no sense to pay Big Ben that type money and not have some great to throw to. Otherwise, we might as well just turn it over to Dennis Dixon or a Trent Difer type QB. I’m still hopeful Sweed will develop into # 1 and Mike Wallace # 2 eventually.

That's how you be great!

by trusteelfan on Mar 30, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, as a Sweed backer...

I’d say the chances of him developing into a true number one are rather low at this point. I’ll be happy to see him contribute… anything.

He has the skills, but his head gets in the way.

"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe

by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 30, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

#1 WR ?!

Saying ‘Tone can’t be a #1 is the same thinking that let Plaxico walk … to become the Giants’ #1 WR for 4 yrs (including SB title), and caused Steelers to ante up a #1 pick in ‘06 for a top WR prospect to be their #1 ("Tone), which he’s now prepared to be after 4 years.

Saying that he’s not Fitzgerald or R Moss or A Johnson misses the point that there aren’t 30 WR’s like Fitz/Moss, etc. D Mason has been the Ravens’ #1 WR for 20-21 years (joking) and they make the playoffs most every years … ‘Tone is better than D Mason, and he has the chops to be the #1 WR for 15, 20, 25 different NFL teams …. and 1,300 yds ain’t too shabby, so who says he’s not a #1?

by Watty4ever on Mar 30, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who said Santonio can't be a number one?

"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe

by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 30, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kobe

was Batman to Shaq’s Superman during the Lakers title run 2000-2002. Kobe grew into the Superman role and nobody can say they wouldn’t want KB24 on their team in the 4th quarter of a playoff game. Agree with you the jury is still out on Holmes.
Also with Tan in that the Steelers will never get a #1 FA WR . They will get a Ced Wilson or an Arnaz Battle not a Randy Moss or Santonio Holmes…

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Mar 30, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pre-Ben's contract

Do you think that situation will change IF we don’t have a true #1 WR on roster? We got Wilson and Battle because 1 & 2 were in place when Wilson came on and now 1, 2, and 3 are in place with the Battle FA signing. Do you think the mindset of the FO has changed since they opened their wallet and gave Big Ben franchise money? But then again they haven’t given Big Ben a top rated OL either so I’m unsure. That’s why I propose the questions.

That's how you be great!

by trusteelfan on Mar 30, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

OL in town

WOW, mins after my previous post I went to pittsburghlive.com and learned the Steelers are hosting two OL prospects today. Hopefully they well start the process of putting a top rated OL in front of Big Ben.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_674048.html

That's how you be great!

by trusteelfan on Mar 30, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with Homer on this one

I think they extend Tomlin sooner just to make it clear that for the players that think they can do what they want that there is no way out. In fact, if they extended Tomlin and then the organization (not Goodell) suspended Ben and Tone for a couple of games that might put everything back in order. Dixon gets to show what he’s got (or Charlie shows that maybe he’s not THAT injury prone). Sweed gets another bite at the apple. If the Steelers win and look good doing so then the zero tolerance environment is established once and for all. The Nation doesn’t want to see you go, but if we can win without Peezy, Faneca, Jerome, Plax, etc., we can win without you as well. Straighten up and fly right!

by Ivan Cole (RickVa) on Apr 1, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

amen

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 3, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Appreciate the write up Blitz

Someone please tell me if there was an actual police report written. I thought I read somewhere there was one, then I thought i read there was nto one written. If there is no report, how do we TRULY know what happened. It seems that we are considering Tone guilty of this allegation. Shouldn’t we wait and see what happens as they investigate, or whatever it is they will do, the same as we are dong with Ben? For all we know, there may not have been anything “thrown” for all we know he coudl have slipped or been bumped and she is making a big deal out of it for a few bucks. Not condoning the behavior, no woman should ever be abused in any way, shape, or form!!! Just something to think about…

Things can always be worse....

by ncmt40 on Mar 30, 2010 9:27 AM EDT reply actions  

yesterday . . .

thed orlando police dept stated that a police report was being completed . . . OPD spokesperson Barbara Jones alluded the the police report is still forthcoming . . .

by VIN K on Mar 30, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks

Things can always be worse....

by ncmt40 on Mar 30, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't misunderstand me. I think Tomlin is a very good coach, but...

I don’t think any of this would be happening if Cower was still your coach. Your player respect Tomlin but the both feared and respected Cower. I hope all of this ends up being overblown and both Santonio and Ben simply report for OTAs and plays football.

We only know what the media is feeding us and the single most untrustworthy segment of our society is the media. I saw Ben play a lot of college ball as a good friend of my nephew’s went to school with Ben. His behavior is not out of character for him. He was a party guy and like many athletes seemed to feel entitled to his excesses. I hope he is innocent but …..

Holmes is out of line but to compare the two is probably not in line. Does Holmes need to be taken down a notch or two… yea. He does need a wake up call As an OSU grad I want him to restore his name and move on. All of us IMO need to let the justice system do their job and reserve justice for them. It usually comes up with the right decision.

Athletes need to realize that they have been blessed with both talent and riches. They do not work any harder than the average Joe who gets up everyday and does his job for far far less and deals with stresses they don’t even have to think about. Personally I think they need to show us, the fans, more respect and not take the power we give them to rub our noses in it. Criminally guilty or not they can be properly accused of abusing the privilege we endow them with and should show some contrition – at the very least.

"Coincidence is God's way of staying anonymous"

by JUNGLEJOHN on Mar 30, 2010 9:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Yea

Because players never got in trouble when Cowher was the coach…..

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think any of this would be happening if Cower was still your coach.

Holmes was ARRESTED…TWICE in the offseason after he was drafted…under cowher
ben was driving a motorcycle without a license or helmet…under cowher

things happened under cowher

by t1mmy10 on Mar 30, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

indeed

The Bettis incident which closely mirrors the Ben situation for one.

by SteelerBuddha on Mar 30, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Things happened under Cowher

But Cowher kept Greg Lloyd, he of the “gun in mouth for missing homework/black belt neck breaker” fame, under control. I think he would be able to handle a big doofus like Ben and a beanpole like Holmes.

Remember, the motorcycle incident had nothing to do with character, simply stupidity. Holmes did those things immediately after the draft, when he had probably spent a total of 6 hours in Cowher’s presence.

by CarlWeathersMustache on Mar 30, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

the wrath of cowher couldnt keep bam morris under control

cowher probably did keep the team under control a lil better than tomlin, but it’s more like comparing chocolate and vanilla. they’re both really good, one’s just a lil better than the other. this all happening is NOT tomlin’s fault

by t1mmy10 on Mar 30, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ben and Tone have just been knuckleheads...

Still no police charges….they just need to cool their jets a bit and watch out for the gold diggers. As a long-time member of Steeler Nation, I would be happy to give them partying tips and help them with this sort of thing. For instance, Tone…please…have one of your posse toss the beverage at the tramp who wouldn’t get out of the VIP after being told to. See, simple. Ben…just hire hookers and be done. Simple. I’d re-up Tone in a heartbeat. Tomlin too. BB is under contract for a long time already.

by SteelersFnRule on Mar 30, 2010 9:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Tone's PR

I don’t know who is in charge of Tone’s PR, but apparently he can be trusted on the mic. he handled the questions perfectly, while not revealing much of anything about himself. when you’ve got a girl after your money, the last thing you want is to have it all over the airwaves. I think Tone has learned from past mistakes and also seeing Ben all over the media.

About Tone’s future, unfortunately I don’t see him being bestowed the same mercy as Ben has. We shall see, of course, and as always, these players are innocent until proven guilty.

"God blessed me with the talent I have." - Deebo

by steelersgrl on Mar 30, 2010 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

If you think Tone’ can handle himself PR wise you should read his twitter feed where he told someone to kill themselves yesterday.

http://twitter.com/santonio10/status/11282727131

I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!

by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Mar 30, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

while that is inappropriate

I said on the mic :) twitter is a whole other bag of skittles when it comes to privacy issues

"God blessed me with the talent I have." - Deebo

by steelersgrl on Mar 30, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

I tell my friend to go kill himself quite often. We actually play a game of who be the most creative in telling each other to go kill themselves. Its an expression not to be taken literally. Like go play in traffic…
go somewhere and mix ammonia and clorox in a closed room…
or lock yourself in the garage with the car running…
or stewie’s from Family Guy, "Let’s play, ‘Drink the stuff under the kitchen sink’ "
Its the same as kick rocks or go screw yaself….
I can see how this can be taken completely the wrong way to people who don’t understand how its being used.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

wow

not sure whether to take that seriously or not. you’ve had your head on straight in your other comments (as far as I can tell) brain fart?

"God blessed me with the talent I have." - Deebo

by steelersgrl on Mar 30, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well I'm being serious

its a an expression that people us, different culture – different verbiage. Him saying that isn’t such a big deal to me because I know what it means, he doesn’t actually want the guy to kill himself, just leave him alone. Don’t you have an express for that like go kick rocks or something?

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

And no brain farts here

My head is on straight. We at least the last time I checked…. you never know though, those things are funny like that.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's one thing between friends...

It’s another to do it to a total stranger over a computer. Much less one who possibly idolizes Santonio the player.

Communication over the internet changes things all together, it’s much easier to misjudge the meaning behind a statement made over a computer then it is face to face. (You basically said this in one brief line above, I just kind of wanted to expand on that one line tannofsteel, I hope I didn’t twist your words.)

"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe

by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 30, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

No you were fine

it is easy to misjudge over the internet. If you don’t know someone its very hard to detect sarcasm for example. I know its one thing to say something to a friend but I was just using my case to show an example, an expression that people sometimes use and its not specifically meant for the direct meaning that a person reading it might assume.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

But when it is so easy to misconstrue statements...

Is it wise to make such an off the cuff remark in that setting to a stranger? I think not.

"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe

by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 30, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its easy

to judge from afar what is done up close.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's easy to not tell someone to kill themselves.

"One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is preperation."
-Arthur Ashe

by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 30, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with letting Tone go - is what are you going to get that's better?

I’m I really don’t see him going anywhere.

That sad truth to this recent story is that if he didn’t tell the woman he was an NFL player and couldn’t get into trouble, then it’s possible this would just go away. It’s an unfortunate situation, but at the very worst it’s gray and unclear what happened in the night club.
He gets a slap on the wrist from the NFL, 1 or 2 games, agree.

Ben I’m more concerned with because it’s the second of related blemishes on the NFL. This is where good ol Rog re-adjusts the pole which is firmly lodged in his arse and may go deeper. Ideally it doesn’t go to court and it sticks around 1-2 games here also, but that’s still up in the air.

Moving past these two issues:
I think Tomlin is absolutely the right guy to move forward with. You don’t need to resign him right away, but it’s clearly his ship, and you are either on board or you are dead weight.

I get the sense ‘Tone wants to be on board, and will show this year that he’s serial about football and the Stillers. I think Tomlin is the guy that can keep him on this track too.

Ben, well whatever doesn’t kill your career….right? I think he’ll settle into being a smart dude here soon.

As for becoming the Bengals…..3 things:

1: Lets not put the cart before the horse for the sake of your on career or anything MF. 2: While you’re at it why not proclaim Brady Quinn as the next Joe Montana and the Jonas Brothers as the Beatles, you freak.
3: I’m sorry you must have me confused with that guy who actually gives fuck about your opinion Mike.

by JonnyNYC on Mar 30, 2010 9:59 AM EDT reply actions  

PS - about my title

’Tone is like any other #1 type WR in the NFL these days, performance on the field with baggage off it.

It’s amazingly hard to find that caliber talent without something packaged with it.

I think Reggie Wayne might be the only one right now….and he went to the “U” so it’s only a matter of time.

by JonnyNYC on Mar 30, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Different Opinion

We have no idea what happened. I guess you can call it homerism or whatever but at this point to speculate anything, in my opinion, is completely wrong. Maybe its me but why do we comment as if what the woman saying is true. I think its interesting what ‘tone has said…

I really don’t have much to say about it because I didn’t do anything. My lawyer is handling it from here."
“will be taken care of quickly, within the next 24 hours”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5037574

I think its interesting, we didn’t hear this type of confidence after the Weed incident, we didn’t hear anything from Tone. Of course this is what anyone would say when their in trouble, I just thought it was interesting to juxtapose the two situations and see the different responses. Is throwing your drink at a girl worse than calling her at our name? They both are wrong. But what we try to do as humans is make one worse than the other so we can feel good about ourselves and say, " I would never do that! " But the same anger that would cause one to “call a girl out her name” is the same anger that would cause one to throw a drink at her. So are they really much different? I think not, anger is anger, some just express it in different forms. If you don’t channel that anger appropriately you will do some stupid things. Those are just my thoughts. Our law system does differentiate crimes and punishment which corroborate the former line of thinking and that all that matters right now. So back to the facts of the case, no criminal charges filed, no police report, nothing of the incident from that night. Also if the police discourage her to press charges why would she then sue him? And why wouldn’t she sue the police department for ‘discouraging her’ from pressing charges. Thats not their job if that was the case then those officers need to be reprimanded. That’s just me but like I said before we weren’t there and have no clue what really happened. But I’m not inclined to believe her story at all.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 10:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Good points

It’s entirely possible that she’s lying just to get some money. As you said, no charges have been filed. Another point is that even if an officer weren’t planning to charge someone because he was an NFL player, I doubt they would say it.

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 30, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

you make good points

just worries me that holmes has had previous run-ins with the law but has been able to minimize them for various reasons and he might be assuming it will always happen that way.

for example, he was caught red handed smoking weed in his car. and because he donated the game ball from the superbowl (that he coincidentally was MVP & made the game winning play) the judge gave him a few hours of community service.

by t1mmy10 on Mar 30, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

On suing the police department

If you think suing an NFL player is hard, then suing the police department is like trying to break into Fort Knox with a piece of string, some bubble gum, and a coffee can. Courts and police are two sides of the same coin, upholding law and order. Courts are not very keen on beating up police departments, lest they suffer the same fate.

Trust me…I’m a lawyer.

by CarlWeathersMustache on Mar 30, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha!

"Hey baby, want some Adam West penis?"
- Adam West

by Steel Spike on Mar 30, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand

But it has been done before.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

One of your Grampa's Steelers shot a cop...

Just sayin’…

"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods

by Steel Spike on Mar 30, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fats Holmes
One of your Grampa’s Steelers shot a cop…

I’d love to hear a crazier story about an NFL player’s behavior, because I haven’t heard one! Maybe that guy on the cowboys that walked around beating off in front of people. I can’t think of any others.

I mean the dude was driving around in OHIO out of his mind on cocaine, shooting at a police helicopter that was following him! If that happened today he probably just would have been shot and no chance for the “aw he’s a good guy” routine. Goodell’s head would explode if that happened today.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Mar 30, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep that's him! LOL

"Hey baby, want some Adam West penis?"
- Adam West

by Steel Spike on Mar 30, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another great read Blitz

I am hoping that we keep Tomlin. I really don’t think the organization is going to draw a line from him to Tone’s and Ben’s transgressions. Same as with the Bengals – I don’t see how anyone could have said that Marvin Lewis was responsible for all the troubles their players were having. Bringing in a hardass to clean things up in this day and age likely ends up hurting your team in the long run. If there are issues (and clearly there are some here now) you work through them together……I’m sure Tomlin will approach things the right way.
On Tone – I tend to agree that this could be it for him as a Steeler. I know the draft posts all seem to bounce between Iupati, d Williams, Pouncey, McClain and other big bodies. Really wouldn’t surprise me though to see us go after CJ Spiller or Demaryius Thomas to either add back that spark to the O that Willie used to bring, or to replace Tone with a big bodied, big-play wideout. The other more popular suggestions make some sense but just don’t smell right.
A question here too – can anyone offer ANY kind of info on Sweed? Surely we’re not just tossing him to the trash heap are we? What the heck were his personal issues? Anyone?

by SteelerNorth on Mar 30, 2010 10:38 AM EDT reply actions  

What would we do

without holmes? Do you REALLY think we’ll get another wr like him? IT’ll take at least 2-3 years to develop one, and with Hines on his last legs, I doubt theyl’l want Mike wallace as their number one and a rookie as a number 2, especialyl with their commitment to the pass nowadays

by BlackandGold on Mar 30, 2010 10:48 AM EDT reply actions  

let him go, why?

I really can’t see any reason that Steelers won’t resign ‘Tone if the money’s right.

Like you say, it takes at least 2/3 yrs to develop a young WR to be true #1 (which is what it’s taken w/ ’Tone after Steelers elected to let their former #1 Plaxico depart via FA, which left big hole in the WR corps – hello Cedrick Wilson!)

High pick WR is just as likely to become Sweed (or Mike Williams or Troy Williamson), so then you’re left with Wallace and 2 older guys better suited for #3 and/or slot duty (Hines & Randle El)

Steeler way is NOT to give up on highly productive #1 draft pick entering his prime unless there’s a damn good reason.

by Watty4ever on Mar 30, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holmes F*&&&ing Up in a contract year

You would think that if a player is in their contract year that they’d be on their best behavior. And unfortunately for Tone, his track record with the Steelers so far off the field hasn’t been issue free either. He hasn’t been charged with anything during this latest ordeal, but this incident will probably give the Rooneys more cause for pause about signing him to that extension this offseason. It might be best to let him play out the year with a chip on his shoulder, let him try to have the big year to get his paper and then franchise him next year or let him walk.

I think Tone is developing into a no. 1 WR and I think that he and Wallace could be the best WR duo in the league in a couple of years. However, Big Ben’s off the field troubles has just made it tougher on every other player in Pittsburgh as far as what the Rooneys are going to tolerate off the field. If Woodley keeps his nose clean this offseason, then I definitely see him getting his extension during training camp instead of Holmes. Right now, I’d feel very nervous giving Santonio a lot of money.

by datruth4life on Mar 30, 2010 11:09 AM EDT reply actions  

Somehow, I doubt that in the middle of his tantrum

Holmes was thinking about his contract.

This is what happens when you pay a bunch of kids a ton of money and give them tons of undeserved praise and adoration.

by smashtheguitar on Mar 30, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Big Stupid & Hesher Holmes

Ben and Santonio are big game players and producers. I am disappointed in the behavior of both of them.They seem like immature little children who are entitled. If they acted “Monkeys” like this around me or my friends you guys would all know my real name. Why? Because I would be in the paper suing them. Would that make me a “whore looking for money?” Throw a drink at me or my lady Santonio. I freakin’ dare your lame ass. Same with Ben. My hot Cali lady asks him to take a picture and he tells her to sit on his lap she and I would both say “Eff you Rapelisberger” and I like these guys as players!

That said, I have stated that Pittsburgh ain’t the Vatican and the Rooney’s ain’t the papacy. It is just a shame when you read the denigrating comments on the Steelers and their owners in the comments section of the Holmes article linked above. If Holmes will play for a fair wage the Rooney’s will sign him. If Holmes wants “what he’s worth” and Sweed learns to catch a pass right in the hands Holmes could be gone. Time will tell but my advice to these two immature millionaires is to grow up already. As Nick Nolte said in North Dallas 40 “There comes a time to put away childish things.” Now is the time for 7 and 10.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Mar 30, 2010 12:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Well said all around

We have to remember that football is football and life is life. The two don’t always match up well.

I like Ben as a player because he is a cocky, insane, dude who throws all caution to wind on the football field.

Same exact qualities in the bar bathroom are probably less than appealing.

I love Santonio, because of the video of him during the superbowl. You can see him chattering in Ben’s ear, about how great he is and how much he wants the ball. You can tell the guy has a huge ego and that he wants it to come down to being all about him in the last moments of the game.

Same exact qualities that allow him to feel that way could also turn real ugly after 5 drinks, when someone is messing with you.

The example are countless. Think of all the star atheletes that have been less than stellar in their lives of the field. So many of them have been victims of the exact same qualities that made them great on the field.
Joe Namath, Mike Webster, Lawerence Taylor, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Mike Tyson, the list goes on and on and on.

We put these guys on some pedestal because of the crazy qualities they display on the field and are then shocked when some of those same qualities (recklessness, giant ego, willingness to put themselves in harms way etc.) end up causing trouble off the field.

I am not saying it’s a given that great atheletes will behave badly. Many don’t. But I think it’s important to remember that these guys are flawed young men, who in the timeless way of tragedies are often undone by the very qualities that brought them greatness.

by SteelerBuddha on Mar 30, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

WOW

But I think it’s important to remember that these guys are flawed young men, who in the timeless way of tragedies are often undone by the very qualities that brought them greatness.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Mar 30, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's like a Greek tragedy

in an auditorium full of ravenous hyenas.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Mar 30, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

interesting points

someone else once told me it’s why some war hero’s don’t always do a good job fitting back into society or being leaders of the society after the war. the same traits that helped them become war hero’s don’t fit in well with society and peace time.

by t1mmy10 on Mar 30, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually fifty

The Vatican might be a bad analogy given current events. ; )

by Ivan Cole (RickVa) on Apr 1, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh Danny Boy

Remember when Rooney was named Ambassador to Ireland and people were asking the rhetorical question, “How might this affect the Steelers?” Seems like the organization’s reputation keeps taking shots. I’m not really saying that Dan needs to resign and come back to kick some ass and right the ship.

With the state of our society, I can totally see how all of this could be BS. It saddens me though that my beloved Steelers are spending time preparing statements for tabloid-like media circuses instead of putting every ounce of energy into winning No.7. Maybe the accusations are BS, but the whole situation certainly is.

by jason m on Mar 30, 2010 12:43 PM EDT reply actions  

i agree with your take on holmes not getting an extension this offseason

and i also hope you’re wrong. my off-the-wall guess is they’ll go into “negotiations” and the steelers will low-ball him pretty hard. i do think they will work out something next year…barring another holmes incident or him simply demanding too much money.

dont agree with the tomlin take though. i can see having a 0-5 streak costing the defending champions their playoff birth while losing to 3 teams in the basement of the league as far more of a legitimate reason not to give him an extension this offseason (but i still dont see that as reason enough not to extend him). if anyone, this falls on the shoulders of colbert because he’s the one who is responsible for bringing these very talented, yet misguided players into our organization. i’m not saying i wish we didnt draft them (i’m glad we drafted them) but these players have a history of making bone headed moves BEFORE tomlin even came to the team (ben driving a motorcycle without a license or helmet, holmes’ 2 arrests the summer after he was drafted). so if the steelers are smart (and i think they are) the person whose contract extension that is affected by all this is Colbert. i bet he doesn’t get one, especially since Cowher will probably end up coaching the Carolina panthers next year & will be needing a GM. very good chance colbert ends up there next year.

by t1mmy10 on Mar 30, 2010 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

If anyone

this falls on the shoulder of Ben and Tone, Colbert cannot predict the future.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree with that but

it’s colbert’s job to TRY to predict talent & character. IF this negatively falls on the shoulders of any of the upper management of the steelers it should be colbert over tomlin.

by t1mmy10 on Mar 30, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see where you are coming from

I just don’t think the negativity should fall on anyone but those involved.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

just saw this on PFT
Our pal Brooks has done some online sleuthing regarding the plaintiff, Anshonae Mills (in the court papers, her name is spelled “Anshonoe”). She’s 21, she’s a student at UCF, and she previously posted on a dating profile, “I love money.”

gotta love that last line. maybe it isn’t as bad as initially thought?

by t1mmy10 on Mar 30, 2010 1:27 PM EDT reply actions  

When is physical violence deserved?

When your life is threatened/self defense. Unless that woman had a knife, I don’t think a strong NFL WR was threatened by a tiny woman.

Providing you your Daily Six Pack. If you have something good for a six pack, shoot me an email at john.stephens8@yahoo.com

by John Stephens on Mar 30, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Violence aganst a woman should never occur, unless of course it is TRULY self defense

Things can always be worse....

by ncmt40 on Mar 30, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even better

When is violence over “your” seat at a public place justifiable,

by jason m on Mar 30, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Musical chairs?

"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.

by kick him in the head on Mar 30, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

ohhhh

it all makes sense now

by t1mmy10 on Mar 30, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

'All you bitches, take my shots.'
~Alleged Big Ben Quote

by Cdsumm on Mar 30, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

awesome

"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.

by kick him in the head on Mar 30, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Drink like a champion today"

LOL

Ben petition:
http://www.repetitionr.com/repetitions/ben-roethlisberger-needs-to-stop-getting-into-trouble/e0ccf0b0-8cec-102d-8483-0030483394fa/success

by Zachary Beard on Mar 30, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Having a bona fide start changed the culture

The problem is that the Steelers never had a 100% certified star player before Reothlisberger.

I don’t mean that they haven’t had great football players over the years. They have, no question, a right to their own wing in the Hall of Fame.

But, until Roethlisberger came along the Steelers never had that one guy who was — in the eyes of the media — more important than the team as a whole. Coupled with the fact that the entire offense is now built around him, and it’s not hard to see where things got out of hand.

by theobserver on Mar 30, 2010 1:54 PM EDT reply actions  

How to replace Santonio?

Several people have commented that we can’t replace Holmes. One concern is that replacing him with a veteran free agent will be expensive. However, Holmes himself will be a veteran free agent in less than a year, and unless he is giving a hometown discount, he will be just as expensive as anyone we would sign to replace him.

Another concern is that all #1 receivers come with “baggage”. Here is a list of the top 10 WR in the league last year by yardage: Andre Johnson, Wes Welker, Miles Austin, Sidney Rice, Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Santonio Holmes, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson, Hines Ward. Other than Moss and Jackson (and now Holmes), I’m not aware of much baggage with these guys. I think there are plenty of good receivers out there that can keep their nose clean, so to speak.

This offseason, the Steelers are set up to draft any position in the first round and not expect that player to start. If they draft a WR, that player would have a year to learn the system before stepping in as one of the top three receivers. As others have pointed out, Sweed is still a possibility to bloom. Would the passing game suffer if Holmes leaves after this season? Probably, but might not be a big dropoff or a long one.

I don’t expect the Steelers to act until there is more information on the Holmes situation. But if they conclude that his behavior is not appropriate to the Steelers image, they are well positioned to simply not extend his contract and let him leave after this year. We can’t afford to have more than one knucklehead on this team, and that role is already taken.

by Steelin on Mar 30, 2010 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Steve Smith

has a lot of baggage…. punching your teammate in the face and breaking his jaw is what I’d call baggage.

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Steve Smith punched a fellow teammate in the face, suspended two games.

Providing you your Daily Six Pack. If you have something good for a six pack, shoot me an email at john.stephens8@yahoo.com

by John Stephens on Mar 30, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it was two games

Providing you your Daily Six Pack. If you have something good for a six pack, shoot me an email at john.stephens8@yahoo.com

by John Stephens on Mar 30, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

the draft ?

Sounds like you’re sayin’ we can replace ‘Tone in this year’s draft, which would require a high draft pick when team has several more pressing needs (OL, CB, DT, RB) and there’s high wash-out rate among 1st and 2nd Rd wideouts (Sweed is just 1 of many) …. so we’d have prospect sitting at what today is our most loaded position – this player wouldn’t even dress on Sunday with Ward, ’Tone, Wallace, El, Battle & Sweed on the roster.

Agreed, team COULD survive in 2011 without ‘Tone, if necessary, but it’s doubtful they’ll find his replacement via FA or this year’s draft. That said, Wallace might be just as good or better, so if Sweed did magically learn how to catch the ball in 2010 and can fill the #3 role and Hines keeps playin’ at high level …. anything is possible.

by Watty4ever on Mar 30, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe it was the Giants' Steve Smith...

he was referring to

Things can always be worse....

by ncmt40 on Mar 30, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions  

maybe...

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some perspective

Tone “reportedly” threw a drink in a woman’s face. If true, this may not win him the nice guy of the year award but I hardly believe it will affect the Steeler’s desires to sign/resign. Like it or not, he’s a valuable commodity and until he does something that rises to the level of criminal (weed incident aside), I think the story disappears by August.

Ben has ONE punishable complaint against him – and that’s still up in the air. There’s too much noise around the assualt last year to discern the truth but there seems to be a lot of evidence pointing towards consensual sex in his hotel room with a woman that decided after the fact that she was used. I’ll wait to hear from the GA athorities before speculating whether or not Goodell sees fit to punish Ben but I honestly believe that the motorcycle incident / Vegas accusations are not a factor in his decision whatsoever. If Goodell punished players for making poor decisions when confronted with a sexual opportunity, there wouldn’t be much of a league left. Ben may be a knucklehead, jerk, idiot…. whatever you want to call him but so far there hasn’t been an offense that amounts to criminal and that’s what gets punished.

Finally, I think it’s WAY off base to assume that the Rooney’s would evaluate Tomlin based on player offseason misconduct (again, mild misconduct when kept in perspective). Making football related decisions on football performance (and not hearsay or private matters) is why they are one of the best ownerships. To do as suggested and not resign him sounds more like a Pirate ownership decision.

by 16andCounting on Mar 30, 2010 2:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Whoa there chanchy

I’m going to have to disagree with you here. I don’t think there’s any way that Holmes is let go. Not for something like this. Tomlin needs to keep his players in line? I don’t buy into that either. At least not during the first few months of the offseason. No way the Rooney’s don’t sign him an extension, at least after this season. He had a great season, a “perfect season” and now a mediocre season. They need to at least give the guy a shot at trying to turn it around, ya know prove himself. Neither Ben or Tone will be suspended. I just don’t see Goodell taking that type of drastic measure against civil suites.

How many coaches have the Steelers had since the merge? Ya… think about it.

Brian: Face it Peter, you get competitive about everything.
Peter: I am so not competitive. In fact, I am the least non-competitive. So I win.

by SoCalSteelerFan on Mar 30, 2010 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Not really sure....

what you’re trying to say here? Very back-and-forth.

by havildar on Mar 30, 2010 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Yea

I read..

Sadly, I think the Steelers will let ’Tone walk after next year regardless of what they think of him as a talent.

And was like no….
Then I read…

I don’t think ’Tone’s future is done in Pittsburgh by any stretch of the imagination

And was like yayyy?

And then I read …

Please respond to my all-over-the-board thoughts with some more of your own. Sorry for the disorganized nature of it all. Time for bed.

And was like ok, he was sleepy. It happens to everyone. We understand what he was trying to say though. :)

Steelers football is 60 mins.

by tannofsteel84 on Mar 30, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nothing wrong with flip flopping about how you feel about a situation

But when people change their opinion constantly on an issue it bothers me

Providing you your Daily Six Pack. If you have something good for a six pack, shoot me an email at john.stephens8@yahoo.com

by John Stephens on Mar 30, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Multiple personality disorder

He’s going to have to mark each thought with the initial of the personality that’s speaking

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Mar 30, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

hehe good point

What I meant is that I don’t think Santonio is done in 2010. The Steelers aren’t going to part ways with him this offseason because of this. I just think he may be done after the 2010 season.

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Michael Bean on Mar 30, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gerry Dulac said on NFL Network that Steelers really like B. Graham, but he believes pick will be C/G M. Pouncey

Would U guys be upset if the Steelers traded back a couple of slots and took either B. Graham or Pouncey?

It’s looking like they’ll be able to stay at no. 18 and have their choice of NT D. Williams, G Mike Iupati, CB/S Earl Thomas or CB K. Wilson? Who do U think should be the pick and why?

Personally, I think if U can trade down and still pick up Thomas or Wilson in the first round, then your draft is off to a really good start. Thoughts?

by datruth4life on Mar 30, 2010 4:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Trade down

what do we get by doing this?

"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.

by kick him in the head on Mar 30, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trade down will net an extra 3rd & 6th round picks which will enable ...

The Steelers to either trade up in the 2nd round to get their man or ensure that they will get two players that they really like in the 3rd (perhaps RB T. Gerhart or A. Dixon with one of the extra thirds or a NT like Troupe). Or maybe they can trade that 3rd to move up in the 2nd to get NT Cam Thomas (if they don’t take one in the first).

The point is whoever the Steelers is looking at with pick no. 18 could very well be there at pick no. 22 or no. 23. If so, why not trade down and get a few more picks to help you maneuver around later on. I for one do not think the Steelers would be getting maximum value at pick no. 18 by taking a center. If you want him, trade down and then take him.

by datruth4life on Mar 30, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

see the logic

just didn’t know what our compensation would be

"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.

by kick him in the head on Mar 31, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Latest On Santonio

Steve Hartman on KLAC 570 AM in Los Angeles is reporting that the girl hired an attorney who is 25 years old and 4 months out of law school. While criminal charges will not be filed per the Pittsburgh Tribune civil restitution is being pursued by the girl. This is the lawyer’s first case ever. Nice first case ever.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Mar 30, 2010 5:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I was wondering if Tone may be trade bait even before this...

…and to be honest I treat any situation where a criminal offence only has civil charges filed. Screams gold digger. I know everyone’s out to make a quick buck in the US and that the legal system promotes that sort of behavior but still, what a joke.

With that said, I’m more concerned with Tone’s behaviour on twitter. And I did wonder with him being in the last year of his deal and probably a very expensive contract coming his way in 2011, if he might not have been possible trade bait anyway. With the emergence of Mike Wallace and the rehiring of Randle-El I looked at it as one of 2 things, Ward was going to retire or Tone was possibly going to get traded. The Limas Sweed argument is moot. Randle-El is too good to be a 4th WR and so is Wallace.

I think the chances of Holmes being a Steeler in 2011 were slim to none even before this. It would make sense, given our relative strength for this year at least, to trade him away for a pick in the draft or as part of a deal to move up.

Then this happens and all of a sudden, who’d give up much for him??

by KiwiSteelerFan on Mar 30, 2010 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

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