A team of choirboys? or My Take on the current "troubles"
There has been endless discussion about whether the Steelers should take the moral high ground or whether they should strictly think about what positions them best to win football games. And of course we all have our opinions on the decisions they've made (see Holmes trade) and the one(s) they have yet to make (surely I don't need to elaborate.)
But one thing that is maybe more pertinent than either is, what makes for the strongest team? Obviously we all want the Steelers to go 20-0 next season, although most of us are reasonable enough to settle for 15-5 or so, as long as one of them is the SB. But one of the things that I've grown to admire about the organization is that they are smart enough to take the long view. Much as I'm sure they would like another Lombardi in 2010, I think they would give that up if they felt it wasn't best for the long term health of the organization.
It is really easy to forget when discussing individual players that we must look not just at their abilities but how well those abilities serve the team. As those of you who have read my past posts probably grasped from the title, I'm going to look at this situation in terms of what I know - choirboys. Or, actually, choral singers of the adult persuasion. This may surprise some of you, given that the money and fame involved is practically non-existent, but choral singers demonstrate the same range of personalities as football players do, from the humble worker bee types (think Aaron Smith) to the self-absorbed divas (I won't point any fingers) and everything in between. You might think that the diva types were the best singers, and you would be wrong in many cases. The diva types tend to be the people that think they are the best singers. Sometimes they are, often they aren't. Generally, though, they are good enough to at least make their diva-ishness understandable, if not commendable. So what do you really need in a choir?
Just as in the NFL, there is more than one factor to take into consideration. There is naturally the basic quality of the voice (or the basic athleticism.) Then there is the talent, which is different than either just the voice or the athleticism. A singer can have a good voice and no talent for music, just as there are great athletes with no talent for football. The way I would express it is that there are things that can be taught and things that can't. You can teach someone to count, but it's almost impossible to teach rhythm. You can teach someone to sing the right notes, but it's very difficult to teach them to make music out of it when they haven't got a clue. Finally, there is the the desire/work ethic piece of the puzzle. If someone is just lazy, you may be able to motivate them to turn that around, but there has to be enough motivation for them to do so, and with some people you never find that motivator.
So how do those things stack up in a choir? First of all, you need a sufficient number of actually beautiful voices to give you a good basic sound. One really good voice can anchor a whole section (at least in a small group like mine.) And they need to be the right sort of voice as well - a huge operatic voice isn't made for teamwork, and a choir made up of that sort of voice generally doesn't sound very good - too many competing vibratos, and sometimes too many clashing egos. On the other hand, someone with a truly terrible voice may have all of the other attributes you need, but they don't work on your 'team' either, because their voice will stick out and be a distraction. Then there is the "fit" - a voice that isn't right for my group might be a fantastic addition to another choir, one that is a different size, or sings a different sort of music, or has a somewhat different purpose. All of which is to say that the 'best' voices in some larger sense aren't necessarily the best fit for my group.
You also need a basic level of of talent, or what you might call musical intelligence. A really good musician with a sufficiently strong voice can make everyone around them better. A person with a really strong sense of rhythm can help others to understand how to internalize the beat. A good musician with an awful voice can generally be developed into someone with an acceptable voice, if they are willing to admit that their voice isn't workable as is.
You need to have singers that clearly understand how much work they need to do individually. That of course varies greatly, according to the training and native ability each singer possesses. Somebody who isn't up to speed on their details can screw up a whole section. As a 'coach' you have to be willing to bench or even cut singers who have demonstrated a serious lack of preparation or lack of commitment, no matter how good their voice.
Finally, there are the intangibles. There is the person who can change the whole mood of a rehearsal that isn't going well with an apt witticism. There is the singer who isn't immensely gifted, but who inspires everyone with their work ethic and enthusiasm, or by how they lay aside their personal troubles and give 110% at each rehearsal. There is the singer who exhibits natural leadership - maybe they take their section aside after a less-than-stellar rehearsal and say "let's meet 20 minutes before rehearsal next week and work out this area that we are having problems." Conversely, there is the singer who sulks when they don't get assigned a solo that they thought they deserved, and whose surly attitude infects the rest of the group.
Naturally, one seldom comes across the 'perfect' singer, any more than you come across the 'perfect' CB, or whatever. Everyone has a ratio of advantages to disadvantages, and in the end you have to determine who is going to help you the most, and who has enough disadvantages that they are going to hurt you in the long run. I'll be the first to say that this is hardly cut and dried, and it's really easy to guess wrong. But the longer one is in the coaching business, the better one gets at sensing who might turn out to be problematic, or who has what it takes to elevate their game above what their native abilities would seem to suggest, and finally, who is going to fit in the best with the team you already have in place. And of course you have to be willing to cut ties with those who haven't worked out the way you thought they would, or have somehow changed for the worse.
So how does this apply to our current troubles? As I stated above, it's easy to look at the individual and forget the team thing, but football is a team sport, and no one player can ever be held above the good of the team, just as I can't keep a great singer who doesn't fit into or work well with my choir. It's easier to see this when discussing a player that is part of one of the lines. Thus we wouldn't draft even an amazing athlete like Ndamukong Suh, because he doesn't fit in our defensive scheme. Therefore, although he is, I gather, a remarkable player and according to most commentators the best overall player in this year's draft, he wouldn't be worth the money we would have to pay him, because he couldn't help our team as much as a lesser athlete who is more in line with our style of defense.
Then you have the case of someone like Santonio who is in more of a soloist role, and has performed well for us on the field. I gather that he is very self-focused and primarily concerned with getting his fifteen minutes of fame (not to mention his big payday.) This is scarcely surprising, but it doesn't contribute to the overall good of the team. He certainly wasn't thinking of the good of the team with his current rash of indiscretions. Perhaps that is too much to expect, but the Steelers didn't appear to think so, as they traded him for what most of us seemed to think was considerably under his market value. He is the sort of person that I might take as a singer because I was dazzled by his potential, but would eventually find was too high-maintenance to be worth dealing with. Thus I would either cut him or let him walk, because the abilities he brought were not worth the problems he caused. If I were the FO I would care a lot more about the locker room problems and run-ins with the coach than I would the substance abuse and VIP lounge incidents - the latter would just be some of the symptoms of his lack of concern for the good of the team and the organization.
And what about Ben? The problem is rather different here. As QB, and more importantly as a franchise quarterback he is more like, say, an assistant conductor than he is like a regular singer. The downside of losing him is far greater than it is with any other position on the team. Conversely, the downside of keeping him is potentially more damaging than any other person on the team. Therefore what you do is far more dependent on how you see the possibility for change and improvement than anything else. Obviously you would like damage control with your public image, but I suspect that the Rooneys are complete pragmatists. They figure that if Ben appears to be sufficiently disciplined by the organization, if he repairs his relationships with the rest of the team, and if he seems to be determined to turn his personal life around, most people won't care that much in a year. For one thing, he's going to be a better player if he works harder and puts the needs of the team ahead of his personal gratification. His team will work harder for him if they see that he is doing that. Ben seems rather like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde right now. I strongly suspect that what the Steelers do about Ben depends a great deal on which Ben they think will win the struggle. And that's a pretty hard thing to gauge. Stats are easy, people are difficult. I very much hope, for the good of the Steelers, that they get it right. And I very much hope, for Ben's sake, that he is capable of learning from his problems and turning things around. I certainly want to see him on the long road to earning back the trust of his coaches, his team, and his fans. Come on, Ben, you can do it!
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Good job
I was waiting for this and it didn’t disappoint.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Does she ever?
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 15, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The part about Suh????????????
"You never stand so tall as to when you reach down to pick someone up."
So re me fa so la ti re do
I heard if you get too hard in a particular spot in football, you sing soprano
by Dr Del on Apr 15, 2010 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Maybe temporarily, anyhow.
That’s why I call sufficiently tightey whiteys ‘tenormakers.’
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 15, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Got your syllables wrong, it's
Do Re Me San To Ni O Holmes!
by TheHumbleOne on Apr 16, 2010 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice - I'll use that
in our warmups…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 16, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Good one
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 18, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
The Return of the Patented Seventeen Paragraph Momma post
which is always entertaining, never seems to ramble, and somehow relates to football, how you pull that off I don’t know. But they are always a good read and makes sense and for that you get a rec
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"It's a great day to be a mountaineer, where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
Thanks!
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 15, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
good post
i think you’re points about santonio are spot on. i’ve had a bad feeling about him ever since his winning superbowl catch. his “thats how you be great!” talk never sat well with me. I’ve had a feeling in the back of my mind since then that he thought too much of himself because of that and his ego would grow too large for the team. personally, im glad to see him go, although i wouldve liked to have done this a few weeks ago when we might have still gotten a 1st rounder for him.
by steel.curtain.number2 on Apr 15, 2010 2:07 PM EDT reply actions
I dont think any team has ever went 20-0
I know the steelers will never be able to do it.
Ben is INNOCENT!
I didn't say it was possible.
I said that it is what we would like
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 15, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Momma
The best you can do is 19-0, that is the mistake.
20-0 would imply you play a WC game, but a 16-0 team would not have to do that.
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on Apr 15, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
what if three teams went perfect in a conference
or would world explode because of that
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"It's a great day to be a mountaineer, where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Apr 15, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it possible?
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on Apr 15, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
that is in division
we are talking about in conference (AFC/NFC)
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on Apr 15, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
still couldnt happen.
they would have to play each other in playoffs. and there are no ties in playoffs
Ben is INNOCENT!
Still not what we were talking about
We want to know if it is possible for 3 teams to go 16-0. That would force one team to have to win an extra game and they could there fore, theoretically, go 20-0.
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on Apr 15, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
therefore
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on Apr 15, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
ah you arent talking about record anymore but just going perfect in say the AFC up until the playoffs…..
sure more than one team could go 16-0 thats the race every year…which team goes undefeated longest……..
Ben is INNOCENT!
So it is possible to go 20-0
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on Apr 15, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
the best four teams in the nfl get byes in fact so four perfect seasons could happen and still not have a 20-0 team
Ben is INNOCENT!
Do you not take in anything you read
We said if 3 teams went 16-0. One of them would have to play a WC game. And if they won out. You’d be 20-0.
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on Apr 16, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
That would be sweet
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
So break it down
3 teams in the AFC go 16-0.
Odd tie breaker determines 1 WC team.
That team wins 4 games to win SB.
20-0.
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on Apr 16, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but each of those teams would be in a different AFC conference. Each conference plays another AFC conference.
The ability for three teams in different conferences to not play any of the other two does not exist. One of them would play another.
by Phantaskippy on Apr 17, 2010 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions
There ya go
So it’s not possible. Thank you
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on Apr 19, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe she counted pre-season games
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"It's a great day to be a mountaineer, where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Apr 15, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
And you're right -
the Colts had the chance to go for it and didn’t, but no one has done it.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 15, 2010 2:34 PM EDT reply actions
Well, all right
if you want to be pedantic : )
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 15, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll always love my momma
And I very much hope, for Ben’s sake, that he is capable of learning from his problems and turning things around.
I don’t just hope. I believe. I have to.
Very nice post. Rec’d.
Bad Andy, Good Pizza.
im beginning to warm up to rollett. could someone condense that thread down so i could read it though? that way i can comment on it.
Ben is INNOCENT!
LOL
My threads aren’t condensable, because you can’t encapsulate an entire philosophy in a few short paragraphs. If you don’t like philosophy, skip my posts – that’s the easy solution.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 16, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good point Momma. If you’re not looking to actually have to think, go somewhere else. :)
by Chicago Steeler on Apr 16, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think one of the best points about BTSC
is there are several contributors like Momma who can produce thoughtful and well written pieces that have some actually depth to them.
Momma it will be scary (in a good way) to see what you are able to produce after a couple more years as a fan. The FO should be looking to hire you in some capacity if only to keep that mind of yours working for the purpose of good (steelers) as oppsed to evil (the rest of the NFL).
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 18, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, COS!
But I would never ever go to the dark side : )
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 18, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe that!
:-)
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 18, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Good post
Let’s hope that Ben gets his act together and stays in a Steeler uniform. A lot of BTSC folks have opined in the past that they don’t care about style points, as long as the team wins. Well, here’s your chance to prove it.
Good post.
Just to bring some more points out.
Big Ben was slow to take on leadership on the team, the leading speculation/inside info said it was vets like Hines who just didn’t like the guy and didn’t want to listen to him.
The year James Harrison won team MVP over Ben was a joke, unless the team didn’t like Ben.
I don’t think they really do like him. He wins Super Bowls and they take him because of that, but I don’t see him being liked. Even the situation with Hines took on the flavor of Ben being a guy people just don’t like. Can’t say I blame them if he’s a guy who does this crap.
He is generally saved because he tows the company line all the time and says everything right. His actions appear to be different from his words though.
Even the situation with Hines took on the flavor of Ben being a guy people just don’t like. Can’t say I blame them if he’s a guy who does this crap.
He is generally saved because he tows the company line all the time and says everything right. His actions appear to be different from his words though.
I think his ego got way to big after his second SB win and the thing with Ward was just Ward trying to point that fact out. It’s proabably also the reason they traded santonio under market value. The more i think about it might be a bit big bigger problem than just him. I think the organisation didn’t handle success all that well and it showed on the field as well.
I know a lot of the players posted good numbers last year but overall i just think something was
missing for the most part of the season even when we were wining games.
As far as I’m aware if he gets suspended it will be the first time he’s done something that is detrimental to the team. And as long as he sorts himself grows up a bit and his teammates / coaches and the rest of the organisation feel like they can still work with him without his personality geting in the way I’m fine with it.
I don’t need to like him to be a steeler fan I just need him to be a good team player. If I feel like I need a good personal role model for me or my kids I’ll allways look to what players do off the field first http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/DanBickley/74722
Thanks for the great link -
Troy is one in a million, on and off the field. I don’t hold the other players to that sort of standard. But, considering all the money they make, they can be expected to put their personal agenda to one side on the field and to represent the team well off of it.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 17, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
there are class acts in the NFL
We often tend to overlook them because the jerks make better headlines. My favourite non-Steelers NFL player is Israel Idonije from the Chicago Bears. He is a great blue collar team player who is a class act off the field as well. One of my dreams who be for him to play for the Steelers but I don’t know that he has the skill set for a 3-4 defense.
I recently found this article about him.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1177693.html
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 18, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
that should read
“One of my dreams would be for him to play for the Steelers”
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 18, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice read momma
The analogy between music choirs (or orchestras, if you think about it) and football in relationto people’s talents and team work is dead on. It would be a lot more difficult to compare the HR problem of a football team with some other activity where there is no “unteachable” characteristic, such as ther is in music and in football; dealing with people that have “It”, if you will.
Definetly rec’d
It all starts in the trenches.
by The_Nation_in_Mexico on Apr 17, 2010 12:05 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks!
Absolutely orchestras as well – it’s just that I happen to work with singers. My youngest son is playing in one of your orchestras, BTW – he’s in the Mexico City Philharmonic. I’m happy to say he isn’t a diva, or divo, I suppose…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 17, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Very nice Momma
As a musician in a working/recording/performing sometimes(and greatly underpaid) band I totally get it. After years of playing in a variety of projects and bands I have learned that the best musician’s don’t always make the best bandmates. Talent alone has never been and will never be the sole reason for success in the music business, just like sheer athletic ability will never guarantee success in any sport, especially team oriented ones. I would rather be a hard working role player on a winning team than a superstar on a losing one.
"Whaddya' mean all the beer is gone..?
Well said, sir -
Talent alone has never been and will never be the sole reason for success in the music business, just like sheer athletic ability will never guarantee success in any sport
Not to mention
I would rather be a hard working role player on a winning team than a superstar on a losing one.Ask Larry Foote about that…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 19, 2010 11:23 AM EDT reply actions
All I know is that I'm tired
I’m tired of looking everyday to see what happens in this never ending saga. I know we should just talk football and I was all vamped up for a new season and then this happens. It’s hard to focus on the fun part.
Now it is waiting everyday to see what Goodell does and what the Rooneys will do.
I just want some sort of decision to be made.
I hope Ben enjoys his probable $2 million price tag for using the bathroom..if we are looking at 4 games that is probably what it is.
by newcastle,pa-gal on Apr 20, 2010 9:14 PM EDT reply actions

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