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Deal or no deal?

I know everyone is tired of talking about Roethlisberger, but I think there's one tremendously important outcome that has yet to be determined and is more football than "sex" related -- should / will the Steelers trade him and what is a reasonable price for a two time Super Bowl winning QB?  I'm not going to advocate that they should trade him and I think parting with a QB of his caliber has amazingly high risk but I also believe that regardless of your opinion of Ben,  there are logical arguments for why a trade may occur.  One more off the field issue and he may be looking at a long-term suspension, he's already had multiple concussions and his style of play has to lead to increased injury risk as he ages.

Additionally, if the Rooney's are actually as upset about this as the media is telling it, they could be intent on trading him simply because they think he's a bad guy and they're in charge.  Portraying the Steelers' ownership as having higher morals than the other league owners may be a little ridiculous but they're clearly ticked off and they've shown through the Santonio deal that they're not going to let one player ruin their brand.  Finally, everybody has a price - so let's examine a few rumored teams and at least consider what could be an acceptable deal for Ben.

Star-divide

I think starting with the closest comparable transactions is best.  There have been other QB deals over the last few years but none other than Cutler's are a great fit.  NE traded Matt Cassel for a 2 but Cassel is nowhere near Ben's league and I'm not sure whether Belicheck took the best offer or gave his former GM and friend a discount.  Donovan Mcnabb for a 2 (37th) and 3 or 4 (TBD) could be considered similar but McNabb is at a different stage of his career.  Finally, Matt Schaub for two 2's (39th and 48th) and a swap of first rounders (dropped from 8 to 10), although Schaub was an unproven backup at the time.  Using the league's Value Chart the net value of the deals are (I'm estimating unknown pick values: i.e. 3rd or 4th for McNabb, I'm using the value of the last pick in the third round which is a probably reasonable considering it's unknown A. where the Skin's pick will be B. if it will be a 3 or 4):

Cassel: 560 pts, 34th overall + Vrabel

McNabb: 646 pts, which is the equivalent of around the 28th overall pick

Schaub: 1030 pts, equivalent to 16th and 154th overall

Cutler: Chicago gave up two first round picks (18th in 2009), Kyle Orton and a third (84th) for Jay Cutler and a fifth (140th): 2284 pts, equivalent to the 3rd, and 105th overall + Kyle Orton

Using the VC as a guide, that means the Bears paid over twice as much as Houston paid for Schaub AND they gave away at least a league average QB.  That's a pretty freaking steep price if you ask me.  And Jay Cutler isn't exactly the pope - he's known for great physical talents but being a malcontent and making stupid decisions at times.  In other words, we have a match for BB except that the price for Ben has to be higher because he's proven that he can get it done under pressure in big situations.  The point here is that elite level QBs don't get traded in the prime of their careers and if they do, other teams are wiling to pay a very high price.  The Steelers, despite potentially backing themselves into the trade, should not accept less.

So, now we can establish a minimal acceptable package based on history (using Oakland as an example):

2010 1st rounder (8th)

2011 1st (let's assume they get better with Ben and drop to 20th overall)

2010 2nd and possibly a

2011 3rd

Total of 2,600 - 800 pts.  Steelers draft best available at 8 and 18 (Clausen, one of the 3 top OT, Bulaga) and have 4 picks in ~ top 50.  However one of the these additional picks has to be used to replaces Ben (assuming you can nail another QB draft pick) so the net talent input is two top 50 players and maybe an additional top 100.       

Realistically, trading Ben has negative short-term implications which means the Steelers punt on this season and have a top 10-15 pick on their own next year.  However, if Ben is suspended for 4 or more games, they may be in this situation anyway.  Maybe that pick can be leveraged to move high enough next year so that they are able to grab a QB in a class that includes Jake Locker and Ryan Mallet  In my opinion, that's a TON of risk to take for getting younger at QB and gaining 2 additional players but the decision itself to deal Ben is done out of desperation.  If they somehow get all 3-4 picks right, and draft well using their own, they rejuvinate a team that's starting to age at a few key positions and set themselves up for long-term sucess.  So let's say, hypotethically Ben = Trent Williams or Bulaga + Patrick Robison or Terrance Cody + Jake Locker or Ryan Mallett (probably wishful thinking on the QBs)

Who could be interested?

Oakland (8):  Everyone knows Al Davis doesn't give a rat's behind about character and he would LOVE to have a big armed QB - almost a perfect match.

Buffalo (9):  Desperate to improve at QB

Seattle (6): Multiple first round picks in 2010; need to replace Hassleback 

Other less likely candidates in my opinion: SF (also 2 first rounders), Jacksonville

Clearly, Seattle would be ideal because you would eliminate the chance of having to face Ben in the AFC playoffs and they already have 2 picks which one would think would make them more amenable to a deal. 

So, what do you think - what is your asking price? FWIW, I think trading away a franchise move is a colossal mistake because they're so damn hard to find, but there the "other" factos are going to dominate this decision.

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Roflsburger’s trade would be even greater than Cutler’s. Not too many 2 time Superbowl champion QB’s come on the market. The deal would have to involve really, really good picks, and alot of them spread over a 3 year span maybe. Or Rooney can just pull a Santonio and get rid of Ben for a 3rd round pick and a washing machine.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 18, 2010 11:24 PM EDT reply actions  

So long as it’s a Maytag Neptune, otherwise it’s not worth it.

by gcn on Apr 18, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you'll throw in an extended warranty

we’ll talk…

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 18, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Steelers aren't getting the Cutler deal...

With a QB who has so much baggage. If you want maximum value, you would have to trade him after the season. Either you trade him for less than what he would normally be worth, or wait, or deal with him.

" Just go and lay your hand on a Pittsburgh Steeler fan, and then I think you'll finally understand"

" In America" Charlie Daniels Band

by idiscgolftexas on Apr 18, 2010 11:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Cutler had baggage too...

The I don’t want to play for your organization baggage… that invariably lowers the return rate.

by Piratefan13 on Apr 19, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting read

But remember, Cutler had 2+ seasons as a starter and although not a winner, had displayed his talents. Schaub was a back up. It is hard to compare any of these players except for Cutler, who was also young. McNabb only a couple years left in the tank. As for Cassel, l hope for the Chiefs sake he doesnt turn out to be Scott Mitchell.

I find it hard to believe any team would agree to a Cutler type deal again, even before all these alligations. And now, not a chance. Off the cuff, I’d say a 1st and a 2nd round pick would bemore doable. But then again, I doubt we’ll trade him.

by jharmon64 on Apr 18, 2010 11:54 PM EDT reply actions  

He isn't going anywhere

I am assuming that a) this has shaken him into growing up and b) the FO has inspected this and feels comfortable that he will grow up

by MEP12 on Apr 19, 2010 12:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Thank God

It’s about time someone posted something about Ben.

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Apr 19, 2010 12:33 AM EDT reply actions  

what is the count up to now 9 or 10 something like that

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"It's a great day to be a mountaineer, where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Apr 19, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm right here

"The color of truth is gray."
McGeorge Bundy
former national security advisor

by Blount Trauma on Apr 19, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha...nice

inadvertent shout out….but a shout out nonetheless

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Apr 19, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't see you guys trading Ben.....

If you do, however, I can’t see you getting more than the Cutler deal. For one, the Bears grossly overpaid for Cutler. Ben is unquestionably a top 5 QB in the league, but he’s facing an almost certain suspension, and is one mistake away from some serious time off. Cutler hasn’t proven himself, but he is physically the most gifted qb in the league. If he gets his mind together (which I’m seriously doubting at this point) he could easily be a top 3 QB for the rest of his career.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m by no means a Cutler supporter. All I mean to say is that the Bears WAY overpaid for him, and he didn’t bring the baggage that Ben does. I’d say they’re somewhere near even in trade value, but with Chicago looking like they got ripped at this point, I don’t see another team giving up more than the Bears gave for Cutler. I think a similar deal might be reasonable, but I have my questions about that.

by Kgrone on Apr 19, 2010 12:38 AM EDT reply actions  

If Jay Cutler had the right coach

He could develope into a pretty good QB. No lie.
Instead, he was traded to a team that RUNS THE BALL. L. Smith likes to run the ball more then pass. Cutler isn’t going to do any better in Chicago, and it showed this year. Besides, the Bears don’t have great recievers either. They have like, one.

What Would Brian Boitano Do?

by Mini Hulk on Apr 19, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bear’s just got the OC from the Rams’ greatest show on turf era. This is not going to remain a run-first team. But apparently the team is going to continue to overspend on FAs. See Peppers sale.

by betelgeuse on Apr 19, 2010 3:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not even close to being even

Cutler has never even sniffed the SB or a decent playoff run at that.

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Apr 19, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nor has he had cops sniffing around him...

On charges of sexual assault. I’m not saying Cutler is on the same level as Ben, but Ben has some huge baggage issues.

by Kgrone on Apr 21, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wasn't comparing Cutler to "that other guy"

I’m just saying that he has the potential to be better then we think.

What Would Brian Boitano Do?

by Mini Hulk on Apr 19, 2010 12:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Cutler peaked in Denver

He’s way too inconsistent and careless to be considered one of the better QBs in the league. I’ve been on his “potential” bandwagon in my fantasy football leagues for the last couple years and he just hasn’t panned out…not even close.

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Apr 19, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

True

But the little brat is still a child. I wouldn’t give up on him yet, but I wouldn’t put him on my fantasy league. (I won’t have one anyway)

What Would Brian Boitano Do?

by Mini Hulk on Apr 19, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m sure the one year I don’t draft him he’s goes off.

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Apr 19, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

only the stupidest human on the planet

 would trade big ben. I hope this answers the O.P.s questions.

Ben is INNOCENT!

by Hi5Steeler on Apr 19, 2010 3:04 AM EDT reply actions  

remember this..

If BB is traded, 3rd place finishes for at least 3 yrs untill we draft a QB and the growing pains..We got spoiled with BB fast progress, which is rare in the NFL…Guys, remember TB and his SLOW progress? Be careful what you wish for! IF BB gets suspended for 4 games, I hope the union will fight that down…4 game suspension, could be 0-4, depending on who we play..even 2-2 could spell doom for us…Cincy and the ratbirds have betered them selves, we weakened ourselves…Holmes was a killer to the ratbirds, what now?

by nycsteelerfan on Apr 19, 2010 7:46 AM EDT reply actions  

We couldnt do this trade anyway

The Raiders traded next years pick to the Pats for Seymour right

by Hpepperdog on Apr 19, 2010 9:57 AM EDT reply actions  

Good Analysis

Thanks for all the “points” also. Obviously Cutler is the starting point, BB worth far more than Cutler. However, assuming Ben’s suitor would be stuck w/o their new QB for 4 games that dampens his value. Add that fact plus the obvious…Chicago messed up bad…and the concussion and further suspension risk for BB and I think his current value isn’t much more than 1,000 points. Someone posted above about not selling low, that’s very wise. Ride out the suspension, give BB a stern talking to, find out if DD can play and BB and the Steelers should be ready to go for playoffs.

Any and all posters who are saying"dump this season" and “this season is lost” are really pissing me off. DD looked real solid in his only game. If memory serves correctly, he was allowed to run the ball just twice (a first down and a TD), and didn’t roll out too much. Of course that’s what you get when you’re offense coordinator is a (fill in derogatory insult here)…well, I think the backup that day was some 12-year old PPK winner so keeping DD safe was probably a good idea, but you gotta try to win the game at some point. Anyhow, back to my original point:

1. this team did not score a lot of points in the losses (Defense scored their fair share in the wins),
2. this team gets Troy Polamula back,
3. this team could employ 11 fat drunken keg shaped dudes on ST and be better than last year,
4. This team’s starting RB situation is better off right now than it was on average last season,
5. this team can get help via the draft for short yardage (RB or O-line…note: this is not a post for Isaac Redman, there are 46 more of those).
6. A backup blocking TE with a late pick will throw more blocks in 1 game than all backup TE’s threw last year.
7. DD went from 3rd stringer to “in the fire” vs. Baltimore and performed pretty well, given a summer as the “starter” we should expect even more.

Simply pit, a QB with some legs and leadership can get this team to the promised land. Yes, BB is the much better option but DD or Batch can do the job for the first 4 and maybe another game or two for injury. Only Hines Ward is passed his prime on this offense and he showed his age by putting up fantastic numbers. One should expect improvement from Kemo, Colon, Mendenhall, Wallace, backup TE and a FB if used. Randle El over Tonio is a downgrade, and FWP will not be that easily replaced by 3rd/4th rounder (99/389 no hands), but RG and maybe center is another spot for improvement via draft. Furthermore, having Essex or even a more seasoned Foster or Legursky as backups are also and improvement.

Who knows, having BB take a break might be a good thing, having him get the tar beat out of him for 12 games instead of 16 should help for January. If DD shows he has value and there is a new CB, the team gives him a high tender and gets 2,000 points for him or BB next year. All is well so long as BB stays out of trouble until after the SB.

by steelerwheeler on Apr 19, 2010 11:35 AM EDT reply actions  

Well said.

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 19, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

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