Big Ben got Nifonged
by vin2k on Apr 22, 2010 9:02 AM EDT
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PrintThe narrative is the same, a white privileged athlete takes advantage of an innocent college girl in a small bathroom. The DA holds a press conference to proclaim the athlete guilty in the court of public opinion. The mob demands justice and to send a message to all privileged athletes.
The reality is that Ben was not charged with a crime. The DA could not prove a crime was committed nor did he even have probable cause to arrest Ben on the allegations. There is no DNA evidence and the alleged victim could not recall the incident or if there was an incident due to her level of intoxication. When the alleged victim was first questioned, she stated that she was not raped. The "witnesses" that did come forward were mostly intoxicated and did not witness the alleged crime but were sure that a crime had been committed. Amongst the most preposterous allegations was that two police officers colluded in kidnapping and detaining the victim to facilitate the rape. If one were to objectively look at ALL the evidence, ALL witness statements and weigh the veracity of those witnesses and look at the physical evidence, can you really come to the conclusion that a rape had occurred in the manner that was told by the alleged victim's sorority sisters? Can you really believe that the officers aided in the rape by dragging the alleged victim to the bathroom as her friends claimed and blockade the door to keep her from escaping? The alleged victim stated that Ben penetrated her while she was sitting on the toilet. Ben is 6'4, is that even physically possible in a 5'x5' bathroom stall? And finally, where is the DNA evidence? So often DNA or lack there-of has been used to clear the wrongly persecuted, yet in this case, we are willing to ignore this physical evidence and deem a man guilty based on statements from intoxicated eyewitnesses that did not witness the commission of the crime.
Big Ben is guilty of many things but he has not been charged, prosecuted or convicted of rape. In the court of public opinion, shaped by the same narrative as the Duke La Cross case, he has already been deemed guilty by the angry mob. Rodger God'ell, by suspending him yesterday on these allegations and the mood of the public, has put himself on a slippery slope. No longer is the high bar of conviction a reason for him to take action but mere allegations, no matter how false, are justification enough. Yes, the NFL is a private entity and any player that wants to be employed by the NFL must abide by their rules, but by setting this precedent, those rules are a lot more vague today than they were yesterday.
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That might have had to do with how you said it, not wjat you said
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"It's a great day to be a mountaineer, where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Apr 22, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
Rodger God’ell, by suspending him yesterday on these allegations and the mood of the public, has put himself on a slippery slope.
Goodell cited 2 things – that Ben had purchased alcohol for minors, which is illegal, and that his conduct was unbecoming, which is his call. I personally think that either Goodell or the Steelers had to give him a significant suspension, just because of that court of public opinion that you decry. After all, it’s not like putting him in jail – he’s losing some money and some face, which I think he needs to wake him up to the stupidity of his behavior. There’s ‘legal’ and ‘illegal’, and we will never know exactly on what side of those lines his behavior fell that night, because in the end nobody was there except him and her. But there’s also ‘sensible’ and ‘stupid,’ and his behavior clearly fell well short of the ‘sensible’ mark.
And I am in no way holding the young woman innocent of wrong-doing, either. But she is an anonymous coed, he is an NFL superstar. He needs to be smarter than a 20-year old sorority sister, for his own sake if nothing else. I pray that he gets the help he needs to more sensibly assess his behavior, before he does the next stupid thing. What would be even better is if he would also actually become a better person. But he needs to at least play one on TV, as they used to say…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 22, 2010 9:38 AM EDT reply actions
While I think...
that Ben made a stupid mistake in having sex with her there, one of your two points is completely invalid to me. It’s the club’s responsibility to card people in their establishment, not Ben’s. I’ve not seen anywhere that he knew they were underage (though if that’s the case I rescind my statement and certainly agree with your opinion). If it was a private party, not at a club that should be checking that sort of thing, then yes he would be at fault. Here, I don’t place the blame on him. Only the blame for making an idiotic move on a girl.
by TheRebelMonk on Apr 22, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
As to the underage thing -
the club allows minors in, but they don’t get a wristband, which you have to be wearing to be able to drink. She didn’t have one. Buying drinks for people he didn’t know in a college bar, just because of the very possibility that he was buying drinks for underage women, was asking for trouble. Especially given that some of them were said to already be pretty intoxicated. Ben himself complained that the accuser was “too drunk” prior to the alleged incident. All of which illustrates that, whatever else his behavior was, it wasn’t sensible.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 22, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
So
what do you think about claim’s from Ben’s lawyer that the facts of the case is that Ben didn’t supply the girls with alcohol. It may be very technical and safe to say now that the case is closed but I just thought it would interesting to say that.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
see reply below
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 22, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
sorry
replied too fast.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Bottom line on alcohol to minors
Ben could have been charged with this but to charge him the DA would have also have to charge the girl (s) who received the alcohol. That is the law in GA, so he decided this girl had been through enough so he did not go after it.
In many states a person underage can get into a bar (have to be 18) but cannot drink. They have to have a hand stamp or a bracelet to drink. I think they even do this in PA but I am not sure.
Again, everyone keeps focusing on the little things. You need to focus on the big picture. Whether the girl in GA is telling the truth or Ben is doesn’t matter. It is Ben’s pattern of behavior all the way back to the motorcycle accident. Athletes get much more leeway already. Many, if not most, people would have been let go for the motorcycle accident b/c they would need the job done. They might rehire you once you get better but they don’t have to.
Ok, that makes...
more sense then. Didn’t realize it was that sort of a club, so that definitely could make a difference in my opinion.
by TheRebelMonk on Apr 22, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is that by suspending him, God’ell has really muddied the rules by relying on something other than due process. This country was founded on due process and on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. Of course he can do whatever he wants because this is not a criminal action and throw it under the umbrella of “conduct unbecoming”, but what now is the threshold for him to suspend a player? Charlie Batch was accused of drugging and gang rapping a woman in 2000 and charges were never filed. If that happened today, would he get suspended? An Colts player was just accused of groping a hotel working last year, no charges have been filed, does he get suspended?
It is a business
not a court. Businesses fire/sanction/penalize employees who cause them embarrassment all the time. Ben has managed to embarrass the team 3 times by putting himself in dubious situations. I don’t know any company that wouldn’t out right fire an employee (who wasn’t related to the owner) for this type of behaviour.
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 22, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Precisely.
Well said, sir.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 22, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 22, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Definitely agree...
for the most part. There is, however, one very big difference. Most companies don’t have to figure on that person very possibly making their company looking foolish for getting rid of them or having that person directly compete with them on a every couple of years basis. For example if he does clean up is act (a big if, definitely) and remains the caliber of quarterback he is, wins another trophy or two for another team. Then the team is embarrassed by him again because they parted ways with him too soon and rushed to judgment.
It’s a really, really tricky issue, which is why I’m glad that I’m not running the show. Personally I subscribe to the 3 strikes idea unless the strikes are just too great to overlook, so I want to give him one more chance (for the record, I don’t really count the motorcycle incident as a strike because it’s really not the same deal at all and not nearly as bad for the other two issues involved…essentially, if you did that while working for a company, it wouldn’t have nearly the impact of the other two cases).
by TheRebelMonk on Apr 22, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The motorcycle incident
would definitely have counted against a key employee in many firms. They would warn the employee and keep an eye on them in case they would need to replace him/her at short notice. I knew a few people who were on short leases and in some cases were reassigned to less valuable work for a single incident.
I am talking in terms of large companies/organizations. Usually non-union positions.
How do I break it to the cat that since he has been declawed, the rabbit he sees in our backyard would kick his sorry butt?
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 22, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm..
That varies from positions I’ve seen, but that’s just around here. Non-union positions are what I am talking about, also. In fact my old boss had a similar situation, motorcycle accident, no helmet, was the other person’s fault. He moved on to bigger and better things but disciplinary actions were never considered. Either way, it’s not nearly as damaging to a company in publicity as sexual assault type cases.
by TheRebelMonk on Apr 22, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Not disagreeing with you that he can do what he wants because it is a business. But what is the bar now for suspension when there are only allegations and not an arrest or conviction? What if the allegations are false but salacious? Does he suspend if the allegations don’t produce a large public outcry? What if it doesn’t fit the privileged white athlete narrative? Like I said, it’s a slippery slope.
Funny, those 3 dubious situations you mentioned of are not out of the norm for most young males.
or many young women, for that matter, I gather -
which is sad. I wish we all had more respect for each other, and ourselves, than that. Just my opinion as an old fogey.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 22, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Your opinion
is one I wish more people shared…and I’m a 24 year old guy who would be in the middle of all of this, haha.
by TheRebelMonk on Apr 22, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Young Males
Often get fired if they are being dorks when they represent their firm. NFL players, especially stars, are always representing their company. When was a younger man I had the pleasure of a long private lecture from a director because I was seen drinking in a bar frequented by our customers when I wasn’t there specifically to represent my firm. Continued drinking in said bar would likely have resulted in either my being fired (unlikely in our firm) or being sent to work in the mail room or with the supply clerks (how many legal pas would you like sir). You have rights but you also have responsibilities. Own up or move on is how the real world works.
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 22, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
The bar for suspensions is based on how much bad press (lost money) you bring to the NFL. There are many narratives the media can make money off of: “privileged white athletes do something stupid but we’re not sure how stupid”, “black hoodlums fulfill stereotype”, etc.
If a story doesn’t fit into one of those narratives, say “black guy that white people like seems to be connected to hoodlum-like occurence”, it’s a little harder for it to make big press, and Goodell was better off letting the story (and Harrison) fade off the screen.
charity standing orders
Media
Goodell have given the media absolute power. If the media decides it wants to take a story and run with it then Goodell will react. If the media decides it wants to ignore a story Goodell won’t react. For example, Marvin Harrison. He has been under investigation in connection to a murder. Not a DUI but a homicide. This has been reported on about 3 times. Harrison is no longer playing but he did the year the new broke. You never heard anything from Goodell though because it was not reported like Ben’s situation was.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course
they will do what they think will draw the most attention.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
“The media” doesn’t “decide” to do anything. It just follows the stories that will get people to buy newspapers, watch TV ads, click on advertiser links. Ben provided them with such a story – and here we are discussing that story on a website with advertisements on it.
Welcome to the 21st century. Get used to it.
charity standing orders
Uh really?
So it just blindly follows the stories that so happen to get people to buy newspapers, watch TV ads, and click on advertiser links?
So why don’t they report news that doesn’t get people to buy newspapers, watch TV ads, and click on advertiser links?
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s exactly what I’m saying: they blindly follow stories that will sell stuff, and they don’t report news that doesn’t sell stuff.
charity standing orders
You're wrong sir
They don’t blindly do anything. There is a process to how the news is reported. There are people who’s job is to make sure the news is geared to get people to buy newspapers and etc. There is no blindness in it. It is all intentional and it serves a purpose. Watch the news, what leads off? Its not the news about a lost cat, its probably about a double homicide or something that will be angled to capture your attention. The media is not innocent, the details of this case that shed a negative light on the girl have been completely ignored. You’ll be hard press to see reports on the girl following Ben around for hours, wearing the DTF tag and openly flaunting that her nickname is DTF. How many reports notes that there were several changes in the girl story and that witnesses saw Ben sitting with the girl talking with no type of force being applied. The media does pick and choose what it will report in order to gain more attention.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude
We’re saying the same thing. The media chooses stories based on how much money they’ll make. As it turns out, Apple builds products based on how much they’ll make, too. Drug dealers sell products that people want – they don’t try to sell taragon.
As long as there is a demand for something, someone will fullfill that demand. I’m not saying it’s right, just that it’s inevitable.
charity standing orders
lol
I guess we are. Carry on
Rabble Rabble Rabble.!!! lol
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
of course not
:)
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Goodell is only a hired hand and ben is his own worst enemy.
The only people you can complain to about Goodell are his bosses. This is the Rooneys and other owners in the League (the Board of Directors). Goodell is the guy they hired to carry out the garbage. If you want someone who is going to act differently then you need to write the league’s board of directors.
The NFL is a company, Goodell is the boss. In a normal company you are employed “at will” meaning that you can be fired for any reason or no reason at anytime. Likewise, you can quit for any or no reason at anytime. The only exception is discrimination. “Due process” is in a court of law, it has nothing to do with your job. Now you can have an employment agreement (contract) or you could be in a union. This gives you a little more protection but not as much as you think.
People have got to get it out of their minds of what is right or wrong, fair or not. Life is not fair. What does Rahm Emanuel, Chief of Staff to Obama, say when asked a difficult question? “I serve at the pleasure of the President” How long will you be here “as long as he will have me.” See, Ben is the guy you hire to throw the football, he happens to be very good at it. But Ben is not entitled to play in the NFL it is not an inalienable right. Ben got taken down by his boss a notch or two. Boo hoo! If he did not derserve it no one does. He has a job. He is so stupid that he got drunk with a bunch of underage girls in a club and then proceeded to a bathroom with one. Whatever happened does not matter. If the CEO of PNC or HEINZ did this they would be fired too. Are you kidding me? When you have a job you are always at risk of getting fired for numerous reasons including doing nothing wrong. Layoffs. Whatever. Ben is already about as lucky as you can get. At this point it looks like the majority of fans 61% want him gone, not sure how scientific this poll is? The fans who want him here need to pray he lasts the summer and be thankful he is still here. BEN IS HIS OWN WORST ENEMY, he put himself in this position and now he has to face the consequences. He has had plenty of chances, if he was smart he would be down on his knees praying to God that nothing else comes out so he can stay in the league and maybe stay on the Steelers. Life has never been fair but I guarantee it has been a lot fairer to Ben than most people. Tell the guy who was late and got fired this morning that Ben is not being treated fairly.
Goodell is simply a mouthpiece for the owners, he is an employee too.
Goodell does not own the NFL! The rooneys and all the other owners hired goodell, if you think he is being unfair you have to get the rooneys and all the other owners to replace him. and you have to ask the owners to bring in a “fairer commissioner” Good luck with that. They will get a good laugh at your expense.
Now if you want to take a real stand you have to stop buying the merchandise, stop buying the NFL package, stop watching the games on TV and going to the games in serious numbers accross the league. If multiple owners felt it in the wallet and they started to lose money, like the Steelers then you might have a slight chance.
See what the league has told Goodell to do is clean up the league. I mean it is far worse than the NBA. Dog killers, manslaughter, bringing a loaded gun into a club in your underwear, dope, prostitutes, murder, DUI. The NFL is equal opportunity criminal league, pretty much every crime is committed. I will go as far to say NFL may have more crime per capita than regular society. i mean you could go on and on. But even percentage wise the NFL is clearly worse than the NBA (a.k.a the thug league). See everyone likes to criticize the Bengals or Ray Lewis or whatever. That’s great but when your guy gets into some s*** then it is a conspiracy or Goodell is unfair. I mean Ben could always quit and not have to put up with this terribly, unjust and draconian Goodell. That is pretty much his only choice other than toeing the line. Goodell is very fair, when he fist heard the DA he thought Ben needed indefinite. B/c he thought Ben had lost his mind. In this case Ben happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. There are still too many players getting in trouble so what better way for the owners and Goodell to show how serious they are: Make an example of a stupid, moron star QB. If it happened to Peyton or Brady Steeler fans would be calling for an indefinite suspension, guaranteed. I would. We are all biased there is no way around it. We want to be better. We are proud of the team. We want to think the Bengals or Ravens have all the criminals and the Steelers to only have guys like Hines an Troy. Unfortunately, every team in the NFL has criminals on their roster there is no way around it. It is also impossible for Goodell to be fair. It is not his job to be fair either, his job is to please the owners.
Life is not fair, not even close. Are you going to tell me that Dante Stallworth didn’t get away with manslaughter. Really? Didn’t he plead out and only serve 30 days. How is that even possible? I mean, in NY people have been charged with murder for a DUI death. I suspect Donte paid the family off. Just like Ben might have done in this and other circumstances. Who knows but an everyday person who put themselves in these kind of situations may not be able to hire a great lawyer or pay people off. They would be sitting in jail with some silver bracelets on. Stars are different, they are given the benfefit of the doubt, they can pay hush money and they can hire the best attorneys. All I know is that with fame and $ you can get away with almost anything including murder (OJ).
If the players did not keep putting themselves in bad positions then you would never hear about Goodell except when he announces the first round draft. Problem is more and more keep getting into trouble. And if the players (employees of the NFL Company) can’t behave then Goodell will go even further (the owners will tell him to). He will have to get more unfair and harsher. These are grown men we are talking about, they are privileged to play in the NFL, it is not their right. They are employees, not owners. Everything else is just BS.
What I don't get is
the lawyer said ben didn’t buy alcohol for minors. We all just accept this as fact but that has been disputed.
I personally think that either Goodell or the Steelers had to give him a significant suspension, just because of that court of public opinion that you decry.
I agree with this and wish it was different. Public opinion is ignorant. But hopefully this benefits Ben and he can at least alter his behavior. I don’t see him going out anymore. Whats the point?
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I would guess
that the lawyer was splitting hairs, as they love to do. I presume that his argument was based on the fact that Ben bought a bunch of drinks and set them out for anyone to help themselves to. Therefore he technically didn’t buy alcohol for minors, since he didn’t specify who was to receive any given drink. The “all my bitches take my shots” statement makes this a slightly less compelling argument, however – you could argue that since he said “all” then he was encouraging, nay ordering, all of the women, of whatever age, to drink.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 22, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea
I just am of the opinion right now is, I don’t know what happened and never will. Ben got suspended because of media coverage which mad the NFL look bad.
Everyone wants to know the standard for getting suspended if its not due process. The standard is that you shouldn’t be associated with the excessive consumption of alcohol. That includes you and those who you surround yourself with. If I understand what Ben lawyer was saying this morning, anyone who is shed in a negative light with alcohol will be suspended.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
If the beer commercials promote excessive consumption of alcohol
Should God’ell suspend himself?
An excellent point, sir.
Maybe that’s the problem – if Ben had stuck to beer, none of this would have happened…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 22, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Beer Commercials
In Canadian TV ads, actors are not allowed to be shown drinking because it is considered to promote excessive drinking. The art of pouring a beer into a glass in such a way as to make it appealing became very important to our advertisers.
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 22, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
how interesting
it’s amazing what knots people can tie themselves in by wanting to seem to take a stand, and yet not lose any money…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 22, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, if they are going to have a substance abuse policy
then some might argue that they are being less hypocritical than society at large by extending that to inappropriate use of alcohol.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 22, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Hypocritical
and wide reaching, there aren’t many NFL players out there that haven’t been drunk at one point in time I imagine. I have no problem with the rules. What I have an issue with is changing rules at the time to fit your desire. Whether we agree or not we can all agree that this is unprecedented and the rule has never been applied like this before. Which is why I would hope that the NFLPA will step in regardless and appeal this ruling. They wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t, even if they agreed to the conduct policy, they could argue they never agreed for it to be used in this manner.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
This is the slippery slope I was talking about
This sets a very bad precedent that the NFLPA really needs to deal with.
NFLPA won't step in
if ben show’s he’s serious about changing things it’s a 4 game suspension.
in a unique situation with pacman jones he was suspended for 4 games after having an altercation with his bodyguard. it’s been implied that alcohol was invovled, at least on jones’ part. cops were called, however no charges were ever filed and jones wasnt arrested. jones did have a very long history of proven past offenses & suspensions.
also it seems (from the DA’s statement) due to extenuating circumstances ben wasnt charged with providing alcohol to minors. ben wasn’t charged because if he was, then the alleged victim would also have to be charged. setting the precedence of charging anyone claiming rape of underage drinking when the incident occurs is the real dangerous precedence to set.
There is a difference
between occasional and habitual. Getting caught smoking pot once is occasional. Five times is habitual. Getting in trouble once when drunk is occasional. How many times does it have to happen before it is considered habitual?
If Ben has an alcohol/substance issue then it needs to be dealt with. If he doesn’t either prove (through the testing) or his actions that he doesn’t have one then he will be dealt with like any other employee whose employers become cognizant of a possible drinking problem with an employee. They are either sacked or the conditions of their employment are made so intolerable that they need to leave.
This is not a court. It is business.
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 22, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I’m not saying it is court. I’m looking at it from a business. I believe ben’s problem is habitual. But what I am saying is that the policy hasn’t been used this way. What other changes will there be? Where will the line be drawn?
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Ad Hoc
I expect these things will be dealt with in an ad hoc manner more or less within certain guidelines (which I do not know). Ben may well be considered a special case in which case you may never see anything like this again or they may be taking a sterner view from now on.
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 22, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
So where is the evidence that Ben has been drunk and sexually assaulted someone more than this one allegation?
No evidence of assult
but plenty evidence of being drunk.
Pictures are worth a thousand words, nothing more to say here.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
And there are pictures of me like this as well
Doesn’t make me a serial rapist.
but
it may make you appear irresponsible and immature in the eyes of a prospective employer.
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 22, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I have pictures of my old boss
at one of his bands shows, falling out from behind his drum kit because he was so wasted…
"Hey baby, want some Adam West penis?"
- Adam West
so you are good
unless you leave for another job. If that happens hopefully the pics don’t end up in your new employer’s email.
I am not saying I was a saint. I wasn’t any less a twit than many other people when I was young (though I kept myself in my pants in public).
How do I break it to the cat that since he has been declawed, the rabbit he sees in our backyard would kick his sorry butt?
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 22, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
didn't say that
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
There doesn't have to be evidence
Business leaders, at least good ones, don’t wait till things are before the courts to deal with them. They may or may not have enough evidence, circumstantial or otherwise to make their decision.
At this point we need to wait and see what happens before we have a further clue as to what they* truly believe.
- they meaning the Rooneys
And then we all woke up!
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 22, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Think like an economist:
Ben gave the NFL a bunch of bad publicity, Goodell punishes him. Goodell doesn’t care how good or bad Ben’s actions were, just that he cost the NFL money, and thus punished him to deter others from doing the same things. Goodell responded to the media.
The media – say what you want about how immoral what they’re doing is, but they’re just responding to popular demand for celebrity drama. If they can conjure up a story that can’t be refuted and make a bunch of money off it, they’ll do it.
This is why NFL players are held to a higher standard than the law: their actions can generate or squander millions of dollars.
charity standing orders
So even if the allegations are false, but it still cost the NFL money or makes the NFL look bad, then a player is open to suspension and forfeit of his salary? Where is the NFLPA?
The allegations aren’t false – and here I’m not talking about criminal allegations, but doing something that can attract negative attention to the NFL. If you’re a celebrity, you have to act like it, not some horny 22 year old.
charity standing orders
So if you are an NLF player and someone decides to black mail you for your money and threatens to make an allegation against you that would bring bad publicity to the NFL, what should the player do?
Pay them off
thats your only choice now.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
What are they blackmailing you for? Did you do something wrong? Then yes, quietly seek legal counsel and probably pay them off and get them to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
If you’re sitting in a cafe drinking a coffee and a stranger tries to blackmail you, be honest and your accuser will come off looking like a crazy bitch, the way McNulty did, even though Ben was being a dumbass in that instance too.
There has not been one case in which Goodell has suspended someone where there was no questionable activity by the suspendee.
charity standing orders
So you think it was justified to suspend him for the Georgia case because it shows has a habit of doing this stuff, even though the other incident you are using as proof for the habitual claim is clearly false?
There is a habit of getting drunk in public
and that is what he is being suspended for.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
He was consuming alcohol in public, had 2 off duty police officers chauffeuring him around, was not arrested for public intoxication and has no history of arrest for public intoxication.
So if you get drunk in public but are not accused of anything, do you get suspended?
if the media makes a big deal out of it
I would guess so.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Apr 22, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
read what i wrote above
there were 3rd party witnesses making it seem it was very likely underaged girl were drinking alcohol purchased by ben while he was in the same room as them. there is also a good chance he knew some of the girls were underage. and it probably didnt help him that it was only for girls given what he was accused of.
I thought we were talking about blackmailing someone? I also don’t believe I said anything about it being habitual playing a role in the suspension – other than the fact that the media was quicker to jump on it this time.
charity standing orders
You're right
I got your post confused with another post about Ben having a habitual problem.
Most of us could be fired just for wearing a devil T-shirt to work. I have no problem with the commissioner metting out discipline for, at minimum, bad judgement.
Of course, Ben wasn't at work,
but I think the point that the commissioner is trying to make is that Ben, as a highly visible NFL player, has to represent them well at all times, and in that sense I suppose he’s at ‘work’ 24/7. Which seems harsh, but heaven knows he makes enough money…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Apr 22, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
The Duke Lacross Boys Were Guilty
of being stupid, arrogant college students. They just weren’t guilty of rape. I am sure they treated that stripper like she was a whore and offended her. Just because one takes their clothes off for money does not make them a whore in the true definition of the word. Just because she came out to entertain these entitled rich snobs does not give them the right to treat her the way I am sure they did; as a whore. Otherwise we are all “whores” of our particular job. While the Duke players were not guilty of a crime and IMO were punished way to severely they all hopefully learned a valuable lesson. You do not treat those you deem beneath you with disrespect and contempt. What comes around goes around. Oh, and like most politicians Nifong is a self serving ass who got what he deserved in the end.
The Big Stupid One is also guilty of being a stupid and reckless, arrogant college student. He was punished a bit too severely as well. I’m sure it was done in conjunction with and with approval of the Rooney’s. I can only hope the punishment doled out to Big Stupid makes him stop and think and learn.
It is my hope that like Ray Lewis, Roethlisberger takes this set back and changes his life. Like Lewis, he too can rehabilitate himself in the eyes of his family, teammates and fan base. Ultimately he will always be seen as a sexual predator to those that watch the NFL but don’t cheer for Pittsburgh. My hope is that someday I no longer thing of him as Big Stupid, just plain Ben.
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
Grow up. You can’t be “sure” of anything regarding the Duke case because you have no idea what happened. Here’s a hint – the other stripper didn’t have any issues with the Duke kids. So instead of trying to assume what happened, maybe you should do some research. Those Duke kids did learn a valuable lesson – that someone can railroad you and try destroy your life with unfounded and false accusations.
Much like you can’t be sure of anything regarding Ben. You were the same one calling Ben a rapist, but now he’s punished “too severely”? Make up your mind. You were ready to lynch the guy based on unfounded accusations. Sound familiar?
The Big Stupid…is you.
Hey man, don’t mess with fitty. The Duke kids found out that sometimes when you put yourselves in compromising situations, you get compromised. Ben needs to learn the same lesson.
charity standing orders
I’ll mess with fitty all I want if he’s being the Big Stupid.
By the way, the Duke kids found out that when you combine a lying gold-digger with a lying opportunistic DA who is in an election battle, you can get railroaded regardless of the facts. Don’t even try to put any blame on those kids. They didn’t do anything wrong, PERIOD and they almost went to jail because of the lynch mob mentality. Don’t comment about what you don’t know. One of those Duke kids happens to be my neighbor’s kid and used to mow my lawn. He’s a damn good kid and it’s an absolute travesty what happened to him.
by Blackadar on Apr 22, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m sorry, if you associate with low-lifes you’re opening yourself up for this sort of thing, especially if you’re a privileged young white guy or a $100M QB. The Duke guys brought the girls into their house and antagonized them. Not illegal, but certainly a crumby thing to do. It’s unfortunate that the consequences were as severe as they were, but if you have enough to lose and if someone else perceives they have enough to win (and is desperate or crazy enough), stuff like that happens sometimes.
What ended up happening to them anyway? Media attention and lawyer fees? Free drinks from Republicans for the rest of their lives? I think they’ll be alright.
charity standing orders
Sorry, but you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Antagonized them? What, by paying them for a legal service?
And what ended up happening to them? Reputations ruined. Kicked out of school. Arrested. Having the threat of 10+ years of jail time looming over your head for a year. Death threats. Lawyer expenses. Since you don’t think that’s any big deal, may it happen to you and/or one of your loved ones. I’m sure you wouldn’t think it’s any big deal to have your life ruined for over a year. After all, that’s your attitude, isn’t it?
Talk about blaming the victims…
Right, I’m sure those guys treated them like princesses.
They paid a price for their actions, for the actions of their accuser, and the actions of the DA. It was unfortunate that things went as far as they did for them. Still, this event didn’t ruin their lives. They got their names cleared, people didn’t follow through on their threats, and they still graduated from good shools. I don’t envy the year they had, but I think they’ll be alright.
Next time don’t hire a stripper and act like a jackass.
charity standing orders
Please Tell Me Where I Called Ben A Rapist?
I call Ben stupid. Big Stupid. IMO he is stupid for continually getting himself into these predicaments. That’s why he gets & deserves punishment. Please provide a link to where I called Ben a Rapist? If you do not provide a link to where exactly I called Ben a rapist then you too are making a false accusation Mr. Nifong.
And thank you for respecting my opinion and the opinions of others at BTSC. While I disagree with many of the posts and comments you have so readily eviscerated I have refrained from attacking you personally. Just as I, you are “entitled” to your opinion. I apologize if I’ve hurt you with my comments about your little lawn mower boy. Your hurt is coming across in such an arrogant pompous manner you seem like an internet bully. It’s a shame if that’s all this situation taught him. If he has trouble later in life finding a job because of his unfortunate situation of no fault of his own have him look me up in Cali. I will find him a job based on your high recommendation. We should agree to disagree.
To vin so quick to join in his own “mob” with you I do not comment on every post. Yours intrigued me and I thought you might want divergent discussion instead of blind faith.
And finally to my paisan 45, Mahalo my bruddah! Fuuuuuuuu!
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
by 5020 on Apr 22, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, you’ve called him more than that, haven’t you? An insinuation is as good as outright calling him a rapist in my book. But I’m not willing to go back and find the exact posts in which you make those insinuations, so I’ll move on. If your intent wasn’t to make those insinuations, I’ll apologize in advance.
On the Duke case, don’t confuse opinions with facts. If you want to assert that 2+2 = 5, it’s a falsehood, not an opinion. I have no respect for “opinions” when it’s obvious those opinions are factually incorrect. When you make the assertion that the Duke players somehow “disrespected” Crystal Gail Mangum, you’re making an incorrect assumption regarding a situation you know nothing about. There’s the truth and there’s speculation. What you’re posting are incorrect speculations that the facts don’t support. Those are also called lies. There is no agreeing to disagree with falsehoods and lies.
By the way, the girl who was “disrespected” enough to make false accusations? She was arrested for attempted murder about two months ago. Was her victim guilty of “disrespecting” her too? How about the guys prior to the Duke case that she also falsely accused? Those kids in no way deserved any of what they got and a post like yours really irritates me because it attempts to justify the outright evil that was done.
On your opinion of this:
The Big Stupid One is also guilty of being a stupid and reckless, arrogant college student. He was punished a bit too severely as well. I’m sure it was done in conjunction with and with approval of the Rooney’s. I can only hope the punishment doled out to Big Stupid makes him stop and think and learn.
I’d entirely agree. He is guilty of being an arrogant jackass by most accounts. Big Ben probably has a Big Head. Unfortunately, that’s all too common amongst younger celebrities. What Ben needs is a better handler, which is what usually keeps most of these guys out of trouble.
5020, I respect all opinions and have not disparaged you for yours, especially on your comments about the Duke kids. No one knows what happened that night with the Crystal Mangum and the Duke kids except those that were there, but you made comments about them as though because they are white and attend an expensive university that they had it coming to them, a lesson for the white boys. If they were black, would you say the same thing? You also comment as though having been charged with a felony was no big deal and it was justified because they hired a stripper, c’mon, seriously? The DA in that case was using them for political gain and was rail-roading that case. Although the judicial system prevailed in the end, they were close to trial and anything could happen when the DA starts making up and hiding evidence.
To my point about the angry mob and the privileged white athlete narrative, you prove my point. “Well, even if he is guilty, so what, he probably got away with other instances just like this and he probably treated her like trash and he is a selfish and probably had it coming to him”.
Hear You vin
Maybe I didn’t word it correctly. They totally DIDN’T deserve what they got. The punishment was SEVERE. If they did nothing but hire a stripper and watch her dance slipping her one dollar bills and telling her how beautiful she was then you are correct and they did not bring any of this on themselves. I certainly do not wish them ill will because they are white and well off.
But, odds are that they were drunk and arrogant. Odds are the other stripper was a little better looking and perhaps some things were said to Mangum by some of the younger, drunker and more arrogant in the frat which were unflattering and unsavory. This probably motivated her heinous behavior. IMO that is what happened as in my experiences I have been at many of these parties before. And you notice what I called Nifong? A self serving ass.
What she did was heinous. All I state is that IMO the Duke boys were not completely innocent and well behaved little angels. The quote says they were guilty of being drunk, stupid and arrogant. I don’t think my view of the Duke children or Ben deserves me be called out as stupid, treated disrespectfully and then have you jump on that bandwagon but that’s just my humble opinion.
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
I love strip clubs. I will own one some day when I grow up. The thing is I’ve been around enough clubs and attended enough “parties” to know what can happen with a couple drunks in the crowd. C’mon Man! You really think in reality someone didn’t piss off the one stripper with some unsightly behavior and comments? And I’m stupid?
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
Ahem…the Duke kids weren’t in a strip club. They were at a private house. As I said before, please educate yourself before posting.
As I posted, don’t try to justify Crystal Gail Magnum’s actions by saying she was “disrespected”. She was arrested for attempted murder about two months ago and had made false allegations prior to the Duke case. She’s the Tawana Brawley of this decade. Don’t blame the victims, it’s really unbecoming.
Ahem
I’ve been to too many “bachelor parties” at private residences that could have gotten a tad out of hand without proper security.
Neither of us were at that party that night so neither of us know what happened. I don’t doubt that Ms. Mangum is an unscrupulous character. Maybe she took advantage of these well behaved, sober college athletes as you suggest? But maybe she wasn’t treated in the manner she deemed acceptable and decided to payback their behavior with some sordid behavior of her own?
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
And that’s speculation, which you assert as a fact in your original post.
“I am sure they treated that stripper like she was a whore and offended her.”
So, you were sure of that when you posted it but now you admit that you don’t know what happened? Which is it? If you were falsely accused at one of your “too many” bachelor parties, I guess you’d think that it was justified and that you “learned a valuable lesson” because someone may have gotten offended?
Seriously, where do you get off trying to justify ruining people’s lives because someone may have been “disrespected”? Would you have blamed Cheryl Araujo for getting raped on a pool table because she happened to be in a bar?
what's your problem?
you just call everyone stupid if they dont agree with your opinion and tell them to leave steeler nation.
you act like an immature 6 year old & need to grow up. this a community on BTSC with ppl having a lot of different opinion. this isn’t your backyard sandbox where you get to make all the rules.
Facts are not opinions. That’s kind of what this whole discussion is about. Thanks for playing, please try again later.
i guess you struggle with the english language
maybe it’s not your first language so let me help. so when you tell ppl their opinions are wrong and they’re big stupid because of it. or tell them to leave steeler nation because of it that would be vehemently disagreeing with other’s opinions and acting immaturely.
by t1mmy10 on Apr 22, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t see you criticizing 5020 for calling someone Big Stupid. Gosh, am I detecting a bit of hypocrisy? It appears so. I’m just being a bandwagoner for calling someone else Big Stupid. He used it so often I figured it was the new trend.
:D
P.S.: with your grammar, punctuation and spelling, I don’t think you should be commenting on the proper use of the English language.
last time i checked we’re here to critique the players and teams of the nfl and debate & share our opinions. not to critique the ppl who have those opinions. i’m also pretty certain any time i ever insulted you was after you first insulted another member of this community. i’d appreciate it if you’d stop insulting other members of this community or telling them to leave.
Mahalo t1
You and I haven’t always agreed on content but I appreciate the civil discourse that we often have and appreciate and agree with your sentiments here.
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
What about this?
What does the Tone move and shopping Ben have in common? Maybe this:
“I saw the transition from when Ben ran the plays he was told and when he started talking about plays he didn’t want to run,” Smith told the Tribune-Review in a phone interview….
“I remember me and Ben talking about the differences between the coaching staffs — how he wasn’t allowed to do certain things with the other coaching staff that he was allowed to do now,” Smith said. "He kind of felt like he was treated as a rookie even in his second and third year in the league…
“We all have bad games here and there, but I remember when Ben would have a bad game that clearly affected the outcome and the coaches wouldn’t say nothing to him directly or even address the fact he might have had three or four (interceptions) that game,” Smith said.
“They would address the other bad (stuff) that happened but not address the glaring issue of throwing a pick in a drive. … We’d talk about turnovers, and (coaches) said we had this amount of turnovers, but they don’t address it like: ‘Have better ball security, (or) read the safety instead of throwing it straight to him when he’s double-covered.’
- ”http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_677603.html" target="new">Marvel Smith
You either get in line, or you get kicked out of line.
Star QBs are known to get preferential treatment
It is impossible for a HC to treat and respond to every player the same. People that haven’t played sports before don’t understand what it is like to have to deal with all sorts of different personalities in a lockeroom.
"Don't Call It A Comeback"
by StoneColdSteel on Apr 22, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
was just curious if maybe it had something to do with MT maybe trying to rein in the team, or maybe just a couple of individuals
LOL
Have better ball security, (or) read the safety instead of throwing it straight to him when he’s double-covered.
Burned.
charity standing orders
both sides of the picture
I can understand both sides of the issue. One the one hand, if I were to see a bunch of Baltimore Ravens at a club getting drunk, could Godell suspended them all for public intoxication? No Drinking alcohol is legal. Drinking in a bar is legal. If they were to all go out and drive afterwords, there would likely be punishments and suspensions. However, I don’t think Godell suspended him just for drinking. If Ben were suspended for just drinking and getting drunk, there would be no NFL because all the players would be suspended all the time. If Godell is punishing Ben for “tarnishing the image of the NFL”, then it goes a step beyond what “I” would deem reasonable. If that were the case, then NFL players would have to wake up in the morning, eat their cereal, go to practice, and then go home and stay in their house until morning so no one can accuse them of anything. They would not be in the public eye. No amount of money could make up for living like an indentured servant. The players have to be given an opportunity to have a life. Goodell can’t expect young, rich single guys to not go out and have a good time. They can’t be cooped up without being allowed to go have, oh my, FUN!
However, there is the other side to this issue that I can’t completely dismiss. If he was contributing to the delinquency of a minor, that is a criminal offense. That deserves some punishment. Also, no matter what anyone says, no one outside Ben and the accuser really know what happened in that bathroom. The situation is shady at best and, yes, criminal at worst. While I understand that players should be allowed to go out, go to bars, and have fun, they have to use some common sense. No matter what happened, going into an empty bathroom with a drunk 20 year old at the end of a hall in a bar while your buddies stand watch and stop anyone from getting close is just stupid. The PERCEPTION is there that the situation is not right. If it was your 20 year old daughter, how would you react? That is why I think Godell is completely justified in his punishment. I have always been a Steelers fan and will stand by the organization, with or without our mulletheaded face of the franchise.
by montanasteelerfan on Apr 22, 2010 2:18 PM EDT reply actions
i say we just build a cross and crucify BB right freaking now...
just kidding of course. All of your ppl who can’t see past the media and goodell’s bullshit need to get a freaking clue. Leave BB alone and get on with your lives ppl. You judgemental self-righteous idiots make me sick. Your failure to see through the medias one-sided libelous campaign against BB is truly pathetic. Let’s just hope you soft-headed ppl don’t EVER get called for jury duty. I’m gonna go vomit now.
seriously?
Did you even read what I wrote? I’m not saying we should crucify him. I’m not saying he should banned from the game like Pete Rose. However, what he did was completely stupid. I understand there are women out there looking for a free meal ticket and will exploit rich athletes (i.e. Dirk Nowitski). That being said, you’re ignorant to assume that every athlete out there is just a victim. I suppose you think Santonio Holmes was a victim, too. I suppose you think Mike Vick was a victim, too. I am far from self-righteous. Everyone makes mistakes. I’m also smart enough, however, as to not put myself in a situation where those allegations can even come to fruition. Ben was an idiot for even putting himself into that position. Your failure to see the pattern of behavior and to realize the seriousness of the allegations is pathetic.
by montanasteelerfan on Apr 22, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I believe what he is saying is that people are ready to lynch him based solely on an allegation. He was not arrested, was not charged with a crime. The DA even said that he did not have probably cause even for an arrest, which has a lower bar to meet than a conviction.
This pattern you speak of and the ones that are willing to lynch him consists of what? Being named in a civil suit which looks like a clear money grab? I don’t buy the circular logic of the pattern of behavior argument if the Tahoe incident is the one you are claiming establishes the pattern. As for putting himself in that “situation”, do you mean going to a bar with his friends to celebrate his birthday? Shame on him, shame on me, I did that too.
If I recall, Michael Vick and Santonio Holmes were both arrested, Michael Vick coped a guilty plea.
Could it be because the police and everyone involved screwed up at every juncture in the investigation. I mean, come on. “Losing” the tape recording. Then, we have enough DNA but not to match, which turns into we didn’t have DNA, the cops who were with Ben have been punished. If you have ANY DNA, it is possible to match it with new technology to amplify and replicate the DNA.
As for “putting himself in that situation”, I went out and celebrated on my birthday, too. However, I didn’t lock a girl in a bathroom with me while my buddies stood outside the hall and wouldn’t let anyone within 50 feet.
Also, why does everyone assume that because the Tahoe incident (which I, just like you, think was just a money grab and a total crock) was probably made up, that automatically this incident has to be made up and could in no way be true.
I was using Vick and Holmes in a totally sarcastic sense. Tiger would have probably been a better comparison; star athlete who gets crucified in the media for indiscretions.
by montanasteelerfan on Apr 22, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The girl was 20 years old, she is not a minor. At worst, he served alcohol to someone under age. A minor is someone under 18 and if she was a minor, it would be statutory rape.
I have a problem with the ruling because I believe it was made based on a standard that is vague and in that sense, impossible to define and abide by. It is without question what BB did was stupid and immature. However, the narrative in the press has been basically identical to the Duke La Cross scandal, the entitled white jock takes advantage of the innocent college girl. This narrative and the slanted coverage is inflaming the mob and people are ready to lynch the guy without knowing all the facts of the case. The DA did not help by holding the press conference, which only purpose was to put him on a national stage, why not just put out a memo stating you decline to prosecute?
I still don’t see the message that God’ell is sending? If you are accused of a crime and even if it is false and you are not arrested or charged, if the public outcry is big enough due to the salacious details in the reporting, I am going to suspend you?
You're right
Sorry, you’re right. I meant serving alcohol to someone under age. Thanks for the correction.
As for the statutory rape however, I have to disagree. If you are saying statutory rape, that is in essence saying he did in fact have sex with her, which he is denying. It can’t be statutory rape without the sexual assault in the 1st place, which he denied.
I agree completely with the whole Duke Lacrosse comparison. In the end, they were exonerated. However, Duke reacted exactly like the NFL did; preemptive suspension. Those players were suspended pending the outcome of the trial. While there won’t be a trial for Ben, that doesn’t completely relieve him of guilt. Criminals are freed all the time for bad procedures and a mistake with protocol. Does that mean they are not guilty? No, they simply aren’t going to jail or let out of jail. The Milligeville (SP?) police screwed up at every turn of their investigation. To be clear, I’m not saying I think Ben is guilty. I have no clue. However, the NFL can’t let players totally off the hook.
One other note that a lot of people are forgetting. The Rooney’s are completely behind Goodell on the suspension. If Goodell wouldn’t have suspended Ben, The Rooney’s probably would have. So why is everyone ripping Goodell apart but giving the Rooney family a free pass?
by montanasteelerfan on Apr 22, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
So you are sure that Ben knew she was underage?
"Don't Call It A Comeback"
by StoneColdSteel on Apr 22, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse.
I completely understand what you’re saying. If she was in a bar where alcohol is served, and they do use those colored wristbands, it’s easy enough to get one, throw it on your wrist, and party the night away.
However, whether he knew or not, it doesn’t matter in the eyes of the law. Giving someone who is under 21 alcohol is a crime. It doesn’t matter if she has the best fake ID in the world, it’s still a crime.
by montanasteelerfan on Apr 22, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The issue here is a matter of consent. I am sure that something sexual took place in the bathroom, the question is did she consent to it at that time? It is clear the next day she did not consent to it, but what matters is the point in time she was with BB. Remember, she did not report this, her friends did. When the officer questioned her point blank, she said no, she was not raped. Go back and read her account right after the incident and the account the day after.
As a matter of law, minors cannot consent to any type of sexual encounter with an adult. Even if a minor said yes, the law assumes that she is not old enough to consent in the first place, so it is always considered statutory rape when it involves a minor. The girl in this case is not a minor, so it goes back to consent.
The Rooney’s didn’t suspend Ben because if the Club acted, Ben could appeal the suspension. God’ell has absolute power, Ben cannot appeal a suspension handed down from the commissioner. Too much power in his hands in my opinion, and the vagueness of this action should make the NFLPA take notice.
I agree 100% with you on the 1st two paragraphs.
Yeah, you’re right about the Rooney’s. They couldn’t suspend him or it could be appealed. But they did stand behind the commish on his ruling. I still think they would have tried to punish him if Goodell didn’t and take their chances with the NFLPA.
I do agree about your assessment of Goodell. There has to be a system of checks and balances. One man with absolute power eventually becomes Stalin or Hitler. Pretty soon, we’re going to see “Tom Brady caught littering. $50 fine by Boston police and a 5 game suspension by the NFL and Roger Goodell.”
There needs to be a committee of owners, coaches, and players (or even an outside panel) that can review his punishments. They can’t add to, exonorate, or hand out their own punishments, but they can agree with the punishments or lighten them.
by montanasteelerfan on Apr 22, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Please make this all go away
I am so sick and tired of the Ben bashing bonanza. I got through about 8 comments and scrolled down just to make this comment.
Ugh, I guess I should know better by now than to click on any of these.
Can’t wait for the DRAFT tonight!!
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
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