Information about the Steelers' new veteran OT, Flozell Adams
by prophicide on Jul 29, 2010 7:02 PM EDT
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PrintI combed the web for information because I wanted to make sure this is good news. Adams will make the team better this year, but I think we'd be better off if Colon were on the line.
Here are the basics from NFL.com:
http://www.nfl.com/players/flozelladams/profile?id=ADA280969
Flozell is entering his 13th season in the league with 178 career starts and 5 Pro Bowl appearances. He missed 10 games in 2005 but other than that has started every game since 1999.
Here's a statistical analysis of the individual starters on the Cowboys' 2009 O-Line:
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2010/5/26/1486897/the-2009-cowboys-o-line-individual
In 2009 he was penalized for holding 3 times and was called for 5 false starts. As LT he gave up 6.6 sacks, 9 QB hits, and 24 pressures. This article is a decent read because it's a fan's take on the man. They got their data from PFF...
Here's the nitty gritty from ProFootbalFocus:
ProFootballFocus ranked Willie Colon the 3rd best tackle in the league last season behind Joe Thomas and Jake Long. Max Starks was ranked 25th and Flozell was ranked 49th out of 77 tackles.
And finally here's an excerpt of a table from footballoutsiders.com. They ranked the Dallas O-line 3rd in the league at run blocking. This data is the most promising because it shows that Dallas (who ran well all year) ran most effectively when Flozell was involved.
| LEFT END | LEFT TACKLE | MID/GUARD | RIGHT TACKLE | RIGHT END | |||||||
| TEAM | ALY | Rank | ALY | Rank | ALY | Rank | ALY | Rank | ALY | Rank | |
| 3 | DAL | 5.21 | 3 | 5.03 | 4 | 4.19 | 13 | 4.16 | 15 | 4.80 | 6 |
The picture of Flozell that I'm getting is that he's a hardened veteran, an OK pass blocker and still a good run blocker. I've heard rumors that self promotion and his high profile team got him into those Pro Bowls, so maybe there are some attitude issues. He was cut by the Cowboys and he's entering his 13th season, so he should just be happy to be here. If he fits into our O-line then the Steelers should be fine next year, but Willie Colon would probably have been better.
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I'm cool with this
I see this as all about creating competition. Throw them all out there and may the best man win. Clearly this will be inferior to colon, but they are trying to make lemonade.
Truth
I get the negativity because of his speckled past, but this move greatly improves our OLine. This takes away any one getting the job just because. Now those guys who were the fodder for RT now have to beat out a very accomplished tackle to take the position. That is great news. It raised the level of competition much higher than it was after Colon’s injury. I feel a lot better about the OL now.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 30, 2010 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm In As Well
This only makes the Steelers roster deeper and the Steelers stronger. I think this guy could start at RT and Foster and Pouncey will battle it out for RG.
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
He will know what it means to play for the real Americas team
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
You can say that again.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jul 29, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Arn at your house?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 30, 2010 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
"In Hoc Signo Vinces!" (With this as your standard, you shall have victory!) -Constantine I
by Webslasher81 on Jul 30, 2010 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions
He will know what it means to play for the real Americas team
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
Excellent : )
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jul 29, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
haha double post
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
Im happy with the signing
I personally agree I think hes a good run mauler which, even with age, can still be possible. Faneca is kinda at the same point, hes a good run blocker but the feet go with age and the pass blocking disappears.
I think he’ll be adequate. I was pulling for J. Scott to make it but we’ll see. A little veteran presence couldnt hurt.
repoasting my comment from one of the 17 other flozell threads
he has a hearing problem in his right ear, which many in Dallas speculate contributed to his false start problem. Moving him to the right side could help… reference: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/120207dnspocowlede.257cffc.html
I tend to agree with the PGH guys in liking the move, he’s a nasty run blocker, and his pass protection problems could be minimized by moving him to the right side. ( http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=9634 )
"You know how football is - if your mother's on the other team and you're coming out to play football, you're gonna hit momma" --L.C. Greenwood
Hi honey -
You know, you really need to change your sig… ; )
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jul 29, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
no he doesn't
because when I was playing baseball in high school, if my mom was pitching and my team was down by two with two men on, I’m going to be trying to hit a home run off of momma
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"I have a dream where a man is judged not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character" Martin Luther King Jr.
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jul 29, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 30, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
sounds like you’re assuming that you’re on the other team? ;)
"You know how football is - if your mother's on the other team and you're coming out to play football, you're gonna hit momma" --L.C. Greenwood
lol!
hmm…
"In Hoc Signo Vinces!" (With this as your standard, you shall have victory!) -Constantine I
by Webslasher81 on Jul 30, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, you know how life is in the NFL -
one day you’re the momma everybody loves, the next day you find out that you’ve been traded to the Raiders…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jul 31, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I really disagree with PGH in one respect
I think they are way too dismissive of how good Colon has become. He is a big loss, and hopefully Adams or one of the others can just minimize the loss. Colon could have been ready to really break out this year.
agree with this
"You know how football is - if your mother's on the other team and you're coming out to play football, you're gonna hit momma" --L.C. Greenwood
great summary
many questions about the signing I had immediately got answered. Let’s hope he creates some good competition – if he gets beat out for a starting spot, to me that shows that whoever starts at tackle really is ready to step in.
Also as always
I will tell everyone to take the PFF position rankings with a grain of salt.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
+1
don’t like the rankings, just like the info
Oh momma I'm in fear for my life from the long arm of the law
Lawman has put an end to my running and I'm so far from my home
Oh momma I can hear you a'crying you're so scared and all alone
Hangman is comin' down from the gallows and I don't have very
long
If Troy, Harrison and Woodley are on top of their game, that is good for 9 wins right there, regardless of what is going on with their offense. - Mr MaLoR 28/6/10
by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Jul 30, 2010 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
But what else you got
The site studies every lineman on every snap and analyzes the play statistically. Very few posters watch every Steeler lineman on every snap, I’d bet no one records the data/result of every play. Now multiply that by 32 teams.
by steelerwheeler on Jul 30, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Not ragging on the site at all
It is an amazing resource that I myself and I’m sure many other BTSCers have used when writing poasts. I’m just saying that the rankings are often way off what they should be.
Oh momma I'm in fear for my life from the long arm of the law
Lawman has put an end to my running and I'm so far from my home
Oh momma I can hear you a'crying you're so scared and all alone
Hangman is comin' down from the gallows and I don't have very
long
If Troy, Harrison and Woodley are on top of their game, that is good for 9 wins right there, regardless of what is going on with their offense. - Mr MaLoR 28/6/10
by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Jul 30, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Not everything can be attributed statistically
On no plays does PFF actually know what the lineman (or any player) was supposed to do. They don’t know the play, the blocking scheme, the audible, etc. PFF and a coach could look at a player’s performance on a play and come out with completely different opinions on how the guy did. It is a good place to get a rough estimate, but it should not be the exclamation point on your argument. Sort of like Wikipedia as a reference.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 30, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
What?
What I don’t learn from chain e-mails I learn from Wiki. I read it on-line, it must be true.
by steelerwheeler on Jul 30, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
One time I didn't forward the email to 15 people
And I died. True story.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 30, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Bwaaaaaa Hahaha!
"In Hoc Signo Vinces!" (With this as your standard, you shall have victory!) -Constantine I
by Webslasher81 on Jul 30, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
d'oh!
"In Hoc Signo Vinces!" (With this as your standard, you shall have victory!) -Constantine I
by Webslasher81 on Jul 30, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
you guys ps3 or xboxing it?
"I sweat at the sound of hearing the names of Harrison and Woodley."- Mr MaLoR
by kick him in the head on Jul 30, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
he isn't jsloan...?
Oh momma I'm in fear for my life from the long arm of the law
Lawman has put an end to my running and I'm so far from my home
Oh momma I can hear you a'crying you're so scared and all alone
Hangman is comin' down from the gallows and I don't have very
long
If Troy, Harrison and Woodley are on top of their game, that is good for 9 wins right there, regardless of what is going on with their offense. - Mr MaLoR 28/6/10
by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Jul 31, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Great info, thanks...
Still up in the air on the signing, but we will see.
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness"
— Charles Bukowski
PFF ratings and statistics
While I definitely agree the statistics on PFF can be misleading considering play design and blocking responsibilities, it is still worth noting that Hartwig and Essex were dead last in the league at their positions. Harwig was #34 out of 34 and Essex was #84 out of 84 and nearly the exact reciprocol of the #1 guard on the list. Maybe for different reasons, but my opinion of them isn’t far different.
On the Flozell note, he was rated just a few spots above Jonathan Scott. As discussed earlier that may or may not mean anything. IMO he will likely shore up the right side affectively, or be a step backward if they try to move Max back to the right and plug Flozell in on the left.
Ineresting too, Alan Faneca was really low on the guard rankings and Kemo was right in the middle with essentially nuetral stats.
Tweet from Wexell:
Starks volunteered for RT but Tomlin leaving him at LT. Adams to RT.
Good, good.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
hmm...
won’t that mess with Adams and his bad right ear with the snap count? just wondering!
"In Hoc Signo Vinces!" (With this as your standard, you shall have victory!) -Constantine I
by Webslasher81 on Jul 30, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
If its a bad right ear
You want him to be on the right side of the line. Then the good ear is on the side of the QB.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 30, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
In an article that came out...
when he first visited, that is what the author said. That, due to his bad ear, if he could play on the right side, he had the potential to be effective as well as cut down on his false starts. Possibly, even pick up his play some since he did not have to concentrate so much on snap counts. The only drawback the author pointed out was that he would have to learn the footwork since it is opposite of what he is used to.
Things can always be worse....
hmm...ok
nevermind i misread…lol!
"In Hoc Signo Vinces!" (With this as your standard, you shall have victory!) -Constantine I
by Webslasher81 on Jul 30, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm cool widdit,
and this may signal BA’s (grudging) acceptance of a more balanced attack. Flozell can still run block effectively.
Unfortunately, I also think it signals a lack of confidence in the other RT candidates.
My heros have always been Steelers...
BA's more balanced attack
Will this be screens, & some short routes?
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
So 2010 OL is
Starks; LT/RT
Kemo; LG/RG
Harwig; C/G
Pouncey; RG/C/LG
Adams; RT/LT
Backups (8) They’ll keep what 4 max?
Essex; LT/RT/G
Foster; G/RT
Legs; C/G
Urbik; G/RT
Scott; LT/RT/G
Hills; LT/RT
Jones; G
Brooks; G
How does this look?
Starks, Kemo, Pouncey, Essex, Adams
Hartwig is cut here.
This is also a 2 position change and next year go
Starks, Kemo, Pouncey, Colon/Foster/Urbik, Essex/Colon/Scott/Jones
One thing for sure the OL battle will be titanic in camp this year.
If you buy a foreign made product you give money to a person who will not be buying an American made product that you get paid to make. Think about it next time you're at the store.
I say the backups would be.....
Urbik, Foster, Legs, and Scott. If Legs beats out Hartwig, perhaps they cut Hartwig and keep Essex?
by SteelerMessican on Jul 30, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. I've been making myself a primer of stuff to watch for
and the big one is the O line drama. I can’t wait!
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jul 31, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont see Hartwig being cut
I know there is a great portion of Steeler Nation that thinks he’ll be gone, but I don’t see it.
Logically I agree
But, the influx of OL men, him not being ready for OTA’s, Pouncey getting drafted, no cap, all add up to a possibility that normally would not occur.
If you buy a foreign made product you give money to a person who will not be buying an American made product that you get paid to make. Think about it next time you're at the store.
You forgot Redman LT/RT LG/RG C and QB FB HB SS CB ....
And head coach.
I wasn’t pleased because we didn’t win - Mike Tomlin (after the 2009 week 2 loss to Chicago).
also DB
"Who is Joe Namath? This is a guy who, if he played in the league today, I'd probably just go hit him late and see what he did, just for the hell of it. Joe Namath can go to hell; he can kiss my ass." - Greg Lloyd, after NBC commentator Joe Namath accused Lloyd of playing dirty.
by count'em_six on Jul 31, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
OC, OLB, ILB, NT, DE, team preacher and waterboy
Oh momma I'm in fear for my life from the long arm of the law
Lawman has put an end to my running and I'm so far from my home
Oh momma I can hear you a'crying you're so scared and all alone
Hangman is comin' down from the gallows and I don't have very
long
If Troy, Harrison and Woodley are on top of their game, that is good for 9 wins right there, regardless of what is going on with their offense. - Mr MaLoR 28/6/10
by Josh Roberts (ESGB) on Jul 31, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
well, the guy is definitely saying the right things
also, for those wanting Pouncey to run first team RG – I read that they had Essex in there to tell Adams what to do when and help him along. I am sure 2 new guys on the right side of the line for the first couple practices would be a lot more difficult.
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