The Real Steelers Issues Starting into Season 2010
by MarkJoel66 on Aug 31, 2010 10:11 AM EDT
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Despite the fact that the NFL season always lags the Madden season by a year... It's 2010, and the Steelers have some real issues and questions heading into this season. That, everyone knows.
But IMHO, people are looking at the wrong issues... Here's my list:
What doesn't worry me:
Who will start at QB for the first four games?
Who cares? Dixon or Leftwich... Leftwich or Dixon? Both? Neither (I heard a talk show host make an impassioned plea for Charlie Batch yesterday...) The point is, what do we really expect at the end of four games? My guess is 2-2. 1-3 does not necessarily put us out of the playoffs. I am a lot more concerned about how we finish than how we start. For the record, though, I think we start 2-2. My gut tells me we lose the opener, and we lose to Baltimore in week 4. I think we beat Tampa Bay, and probably pull out a win against the Titans. Call me crazy, but I am no believer in VY (who should have been suspended, BTW, for his strip club antics... Goodell lost a lot of respect on that one. Ben gets six games while not being charged for a crime, VY gets an assult rap in a strip club at 2:00am and he gets nothing? Pffft!)
Who Kicks on Kick-off team?
The fact is that Jeff Reed is a curious under-performer in kickoffs. I can't understand how one of the biggest kicker in the game (I mean by size...) can't get the ball past the 20. But at the end of the day, the poor performance wasn't about kicking, it was about tackling, and -- unless you have a kicker who can boom it out of the endzone -- that problem is not solved by changing kickers. Either the new special team guy fixes it, or he doesn't. Special Teams is a concern. The kicker isn't.
Why did we look so pathetic against Denver?
We need to remember that preseason is not about winning games, it is about evaluating talent. Don't believe me? How about this: The Colts went 1-3 in preseason in 2006 (the year they won the super bowl.) They did the same thing in 2009 (again ending it with a Super Bowl appearance). The Steelers did pretty well in preseason in 2008 (with probably what we will finish with this preseason: 3-1). The Cardinals were 2-2... and the Detroit Lions had the whole NFL talking with a perfect 4-0 in preseason. The Steelers and Cardinals went on to meet in the Super Bowl while the Lions went 0-16.
My point is, I'm not going to worry about the Preseason games. They are not strong indicators of what is to come. When Dick Lebeau has his starting 11 set and starts scheming game plans, then I'll worry about final scores. The fact is that 13 points could easily win 2 out of our first four games, and no matter who is at QB, I think we can get 13 points.
What Worries me... A lot:
How well does Ben play when he returns?
Let's face it, Ben hasn't exactly been a "Work out hard in the offseason and come in ready to play" kind of guy. He has been more of a "Party like a Rockstar and come in fat and hungover" kind of guy. His talent has carried him, as well as a defense that kept him in the games early in the season while he shook off his rust and blubber. This year is different. On his own, he'll have to stay focused and work hard. He looks like he is ready to do that. And the upside of having a gunslinger as opposed to a Tom Brady sort of guy is that timing doesn't matter as much in the sandlot type of football Ben likes to play. That being said, Ben has consistently under thrown Mike Wallace. The 47 yarder last Sunday might have been six points if he had hit him in stride. So, it isn't like learning his receivers isn't important. But it is what it is... How the Steelers finish in 2010 is resting on how well Ben can get ready for his season.
Can the defense stay healthy?
Troy Polomalu recently had his hair insured for $1 million dollars. But with all due respect to the 7 layers of hair protection... it's his knees I worry about. And his ribs. And his shoulders. Troy is a torpedo looking for a target, and he blows up plays that others can't even see. But this just in, Troy is made of flesh and blood. And the reckless way he plays the game is his greatest weakness as well as strength. Having a healthy Troy back there changes the game just by his presence. Having a Troy on the sideline with Million dollar hair doesn't help us at all. And, lets not forget Aaron Smith. For as important as he is to the defense, he is incredibly fragile. This defense is going to have to keep us in games, and win them at the end, or the only game to be played at Heinz field this January will be played by the Penguins.
Who is Mike Tomlin?
I loved Mike in 2008. I even really liked him in 2007 (though I thought Whiz was the right pick then...) But in 2009 he went from wiseman to punchline. When he held a press conference and promised to release hell in December, I was on board... then his team went out and lost to the worst two teams in football, and it was only inspiring if you were a Ravens fan.
Clearly, Mike T has something to prove this year. In 2007, he inherited a very good team. In 2008, he tweaked it, and inspired it to a great team for one glorious year. But what can he do with a pretty good team? The verdict is out.
When he talks about defending every blade of grass, and walking past six Lombardis... having a big windshield and a small rearview mirror... and all of the cool one-liners he unleashes: It is great... when you are winning. But trying to fire off one-liners while you are in a losing streak doesn't work so well. You end up looking like Joe Biden touting "recover summer."
Mike needs to get to the playoffs this year. Yes, I know Ben didn't do him any favors... but the fact is: This is what you hire a head coach for. He needs to make tough decisions, put together a strategy, and win games. He has enough talent to do that. Other coaches around the league have made it to the Super Bowl with less talent than Mike Tomlin has on his roster right now.
Getting to a Super Bowl is hard. Winning it is even harder. But the playoffs, for this team, is achievable.
If we fail to make it there this year, you can blame Ben if you want to... but I'm looking at Mike Tomlin. Last year was embarrassing. That the defending Super Bowl champions didn't even make the playoffs was a disaster.
To quote Mr. Tomlin: The expectations around here have not changed.
It's time he started living up to his own rhetoric.
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Agreed on everything...
…which brings me to a specific question about Troy: reading your very apt description of his playing style, and mindful of his limited shelflife, isn’t it about time we implemented contingency planning? Just like a very talented offensive catcher is slated to DH more often or even play 1B in his late prime years in baseball, shouldn’t something similar de considered with no. 43? I know, I know, he’s so special to the current Dick Lebeau scheme, but how long can he keep it up? Does the team exploit him fully, with a possible retirement at 30 because he can’t take the pounding anymore (i.e. the Win Now at All Costs Theory)? Or do we start scheming him to be more of a centerfield safety, and bring in a possible clone for him to train in his Tasmanian Devil ways (i.e. the Thinking About the Future Now Since the Suspension Will Screw Up our 7th Title Run This Year Anyway Hypothesis)? Just a mental note for the future.
"I am a sinner who does not expect forgiveness, but [Thank God] I am not a government official" Francis Wolcott in "Deadwood", Season 2
by Flying Polamalus on Aug 31, 2010 10:41 AM EDT reply actions
how much does losing Holmes effect Ben
He was using him a lot last season, I know Wallace is good but it seemed to take a few seasons for Ben to really start to rely on Holmes in some games.
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Aug 31, 2010 11:40 AM EDT reply actions
now it is more Tomlin's team less Cowher's
Tomlin won the SB by tweeking a few things left over from Bill but now the team is carrying a lot more of his draft picks and his personality. so we will really begin to see if he can win on his decisions.
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Aug 31, 2010 11:41 AM EDT reply actions
Yep
Thats why he won the next year after Bill retired. Wait….
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Aug 31, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
So it begins....
“When he held a press conference and promised to release hell in December, I was on board… then his team went out and lost to the worst two teams in football, and it was only inspiring if you were a Ravens fan.”
‘HIS’ team? lol
As soon as we hit December with a 9-3 record it will be “OUR” team again, eh? haha!
Arguing the semantics is pointless
I think the point on Tomlin was a valid one. A lot of Steelers fans are nervous about what type of coach Tomlin actually is, myself included.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I think a lot of fans do that subconciously
Its not as if they are actually denouncing their team. I know I read a paper on it when I took psychology in college, or was it sociology? Some sort of -ology
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, just good ol' fashioned ribbin' for fun...
Like after doing somthing really stupid, your mother looks at your father and says “He’s YOUR son!”
lol
I
totally get that, I do that to my dad when my brother does something stupid. I’ll tell him, ‘Its your fault, you made him, should have stopped at 2 but no you wanted to be greedy and have 3.’
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 1, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Tomlin's one liners
I too am beginnging to tire of Tomlin’s cliche speak. Also, he’s lacking the decision making at two important areas, Special Teams and Offense. Our special teams is still broken even though Sepulveda is kicking off and can actually make a tackle, the other teams didn’t attempt to block Reed. The offense is a mess with Arians running a QB boot on 4th and 1. Pathetic.
Memo to Mike, stop making one liners and start putting your stamp on this team.
- Sit Leftwich and Dixon (I thought he was the one, he isnt’t) and start Batch. The HC and OC love affair with Leftwich is puzzling?
- Tell Reed to sitdown for kickoffs and don’t get back up, because we are going 10 on 11 with you kicking
- Tell Ike and Keenan to stop acting Louisiana dumb, not a good look for either. It’s in the water in New Orleans
- JScott, Hartwig, Essex, and Urbik look flat out horrible as offensive linemen. Please put Ramon foster at RG and let’s run the rock down their throats.
I agree on starting Batch
"I wore my purple camo to the practice, but they wouldn’t let me into the autograph zone. No clue why."- Mr MaLoR
by kick him in the head on Aug 31, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Problem is
Batch has taken under 10 snaps with the 1s all camp
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
QBing is all about timing. There is no way he has that relationship with Wallace.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Would force the run game to happen
"I wore my purple camo to the practice, but they wouldn’t let me into the autograph zone. No clue why."- Mr MaLoR
by kick him in the head on Aug 31, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You may be right about that
But he did throw to him many times, everyday in camp.
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
Did he throw to him in 11on11 frequently?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe you know the answer to that
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
when has batch ever needed time to prepare as a starter? thats why he is such a great backup. he has come into games frequently in his stint with pittsburgh without looking lost. he would fair just fine I think
Yeah
Those were the days when he would actually get snaps with the 1s in practice. Batch has gotten essentially none.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the idea of starting Batch is absolutely absurd. If for no other reason than one hit and he will be down and out.
Yes
and he’s too familiar with our system…
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
That had nothing to do with what he said, and what he said has proven true the last few years...
Batch takes one hit and is done for the year. That’s how we ended up with Leftwich the first time, and how we ended up starting Dixon last year. His lack of durablity is real.
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Aug 31, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
But it was sarcastic
Which is the first thing that comes to my mind, whenever I see something authored by worldtrip.
I’d like to see Batch start Thursday. Yes, Batch has been injury prone the last couple of years, but he is still on this roster. Let’s put him in and see what he can do. He may get injured, but he may do well. We are probably going to have to cut one of the QBs when Ben comes back anyway, are we not? Why not give them all a start in preseason, as (some sort of) a baseline evaluation?
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
The internet fools you, tone is implied by the reader...
There was nothing sarcastic in that sentence, unless you read it that way. But this is really just a “for the record” for me, I understand why someone would infer sarcasm with WT, and in reality it could have been sarcastic for all I know. One thing I was sure of, it was accurate.
In fairness, I’ve never been a Batch fan. From what I’ve read, he’s a hell of a nice guy, and a smart player now. But the man is as close to the end of the line as anyone in the game and he has had so few reps in the preseason and camp that it’s pretty clear the team feels they’d be better served elsewhere. Charlie has played well for us in the past, and I am not knocking what he did, but we have several better options who are more physically skilled in every way. If we could put Batch’s brain in Dixon or Leftwich none of us would even be debating who should start, we’d all be like that guy right there.
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Aug 31, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
+112 this is a great idea
Batch’s brain in DD’s body. Someone call Steve Martin, Quick!
"I wore my purple camo to the practice, but they wouldn’t let me into the autograph zone. No clue why."- Mr MaLoR
by kick him in the head on Aug 31, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel ya dogg...
I was thinking you were serious, and by chance I was right. Mark it down. I was right about something and worldtrip was serious… same day same post.
And Peter King picked the Steelers to win the Superbowl, so wait… wait….
Yes, the Four Horseman of the Apocolypse are riding over the hill now, and the ground has gotten cold as if it were frozen from beneath.
This is it.
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Aug 31, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Holy shit!
You have an avatard!
I love the smell of burnt O-line in the morning!
-Me, ripping off Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now
we now have a face to the most sarcastic person on BTSC
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Don't wory, I'm an untrained professional" WVPF
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
And I have a new picture to put up on my dartboard
The Ray Lewis one is getting a little worn out…
I love the smell of burnt O-line in the morning!
-Me, ripping off Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now
Figured you'd like that one
I love the smell of burnt O-line in the morning!
-Me, ripping off Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now
Good heads up
The internet fools you, tone is implied by the reader…
I have learned a good lesson today: One’s normal style, is not always consistent.
Thank you.
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
I learned this lesson the hard way.
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Aug 31, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
why thank him? was the lesson all that difficult to learn? was he the only one in the universe with this knowledge and somehow you have pried it from his unwilling hands?
yep
NYSteelersFan4 is all knowing.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 1, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was bait
Wanted to see if anyone would be offended, by courtesy.
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
That will teach you
to be nice around here, al – they’ll bust your, um, chops for that every time.
Don’t make the mistake of thanking me for that advice, either… : )
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Something for the dinning table then?
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
Thanks -
I’ll display it with pride…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
So testy lately...
You need more meatloaf in your diet.
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Sep 1, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Good man...
Get your learnin’ in. There will be time eventually.
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Sep 1, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Something tells me
that I am missing something here, and for that I am grateful…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Here ya go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK-FRac7m58
I love the smell of burnt O-line in the morning!
-Me, ripping off Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now
the backup is always the best option syndrome
This is the same thinking that leads fans to believe that they should start their backup instead of the starter. It’s the thinking that gets Rex Grossman a job over Kyle Orton (even though their winning percentages are flipped), it gets McNabb traded away even though he’s still likely got 4 good years in him.
Batch looked fine. But he played against absolute scrubs. Last week we were calling for Dixon cause he also beat up on the scrubs. Leftwich has the tools to be a game manager who can make a throw when it’s needed. No need to try to have Charlie get up to speed with all the 1’s who haven’t practiced with him in years.
by Chicago Steeler on Aug 31, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
McNabb was at the end of his contract
and they would have lost Kolb who was at the end, too. No one around here has been calling for Kolb.
"Successful destination is the pinnacle, make no mistake, but the fun is in the journey." - Tim Gleason
by chewiesteeler on Sep 2, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Informative...
opinionated, splashed with a wonderful dose of humor and steelerness
joe biden quote tickled me
by Steelchamps !! on Aug 31, 2010 10:19 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks for the recs
A couple of comments on the comments…
Charlie Batch: If he is the best of the three, then start him. If he gets hit and hurt then you were no worse off than if you hadn’t started him. Unless your his mama, his getting hurt doesn’t enter into the equation: you start him… But, for whatever reason, I don’t think he’s going to get the shot. I think Leftwich is the guy. And I think we end up 2-2.
on Resting Polomalu … I don’t think that works. For one thing, I don’t think it is in his DNA. When I think Troy, I think Spartan… and when they went off into battle they were told to come back with their shield, or on it.
On Blitz-burgh questioning my Fanhood… Say what you want. It is Mike Tomlin’s team. I root for them. I cheer for them. I might even live and die with them… but at the end of the day I am not responsible for them playing in January… Mike Tomlin is. If you don’t get that, you’re not worth my time…
On the question of how much Holme’s loss will be felt: Well, it would have been felt anyway. Holmes is out as many games as Ben is. I think that the loss of Holmes will be more felt if we make it to the playoffs. He always seemed to play bigger when the game was bigger. Wallace may yet make us forget Tone… but Santonio could also take a punt return to the house… so, yeah, we’re going to miss him….stupid pot-head…
For a moment there
I thought you said that he could take a blunt to the house. Too bad he didn’t stick to punts…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Aug 31, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Really Dude?
Well Mark Joel66, I take issue with your comments regarding coach T’s must make the playoffs stance. You still have to take into account injuries, schedule toughness and other unforseeables. Because Ben has already put us behind the eightball. And I dont care who’s still in denial about it.
Also are Steelers are getting up in age. I think Farrior has been showings signs of that even in preseason. That’s just an example.
So come on dude. Get your analysis up to snuff before you go putting a possible playoff absence on coach T.
Plus, the fact of the matter is other teams get better also.
Go Steelers!
I'll agree...
OK, if there are a ton of injuries that no one can help… sure, we can miss the playoffs and not blame Tomlin.
But last year?
Take off your rose colored glasses for a second. Here’s all we had to do to make the playoffs last year. Pick one:
Beat a Kansas City team that finished 4-12. (One of those wins were against us.) This is the same KC team that Cleveland beat. The same team that finished 25th in Pass Offense, 22nd in Pass Defense and dead last in Rushing Defense.
Beat an Oakland Raider team that finished 5-11 (also beat by Cleveland). Raiders rankings? 29th in Passing Offense. 21st in Rushing Offense. 29th in Passing Defense.
Score 14 points on the Browns at Cleveland Stadium. 14 points? Against a team that ranked 21st in defense in the NFL. (And last I checked Farrior, Polomalu, and Smith don’t play on offense… so explain to me again how injuries or age were the real cause?)
So, yeah… I think it was a real problem that we didn’t make the playoffs last year, and I think the coach has to be held responsible for that. Not that even a great coach can’t have an off year. I’ll give Mike T that… and I just did. But if he wants to be considered a great head coach, we need more than great one-liners.
As for this year, I for one, expect the Steelers to make the playoffs. (You don’t I guess? I guess you’ll be happy with an 8-8 season, and watching the playoffs between other teams…? Sorry, I’m not happy with that.) They can and should make it. If they don’t I think someone needs to provide some answers as to why, and those answers need to start from the top.
But your analysis seems to consist of: “Hey, we’re the Steelers! Go Steelers!”
I don’t see how I can argue with such cogent counter-points…
Losing the top two defensive players last year?
You don’t think that counts as a ton of injuries? And now this year, without the starting qb for the first four games and probably the best offensive lineman on the team is out for the year, and you are saying anything but playoffs is a bust?
Frankly I think the team making the playoffs will be a minor miracle. The AFC has a number of very strong teams this year.
I always laugh when people say that a team should do this or should do that. There are no shoulds. Everybody is a professional out there. The difference between winning teams and losing teams is razor thin. I just want the team to be competitive, and the games to be fun and exciting to watch, just like they were last year. Any expectations beyond that is really just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Yeah... it's a laugh all right
Losing Smith and Polomalu is a valid excuse for not making it to the Super Bowl.
But I can’t accept it as a valid excuse as to why we lost to KC, Oakland, and Cleveland.
All we needed to do was beat one of those guys. Hell, Detroit put 38 points on Cleveland. KC was beat by Oakland and Cleveland…
You’re going to excuse those three losses on two injuries?
Nobody is guaranteed wins. The Steelers didn’t play great last year. There is no disputing that. Lots of players played poorly, particularly in those games. Still, they were in all the games last year, and frankly, that’s probably all we really ought to hope for.
Just to be clear...
If the Steelers go 0-16 this year, but never lose a game by more than 3 points… you are happy with that?
Look at reality
9-7
The only reason we didn’t make the playoffs was because of tie breakers and because the Jets were lucky enough to have 2 teams lay down for them in the playoffs. Don’t look at the situation in a vacuum. You have to take in all of the variables if you are going to criticize. Yea its easy to say, coach should have adjusted this, or he should have done that, we should have won this game.
Coach is responsible I get that, but Holmes could have caught that ball against the bears, reed could have made those field goals, Sweed could have caught that ball, Holmes could have not fallen on his route against the bengals, Farrior could have made that stop against the 4 and 1 on the bengals, Burnett could have caught that interception against the raiders, Defense could have stopped Ray Rice on fourth down. Look at the situation as a whole, is the coach directly responsible for these guys simply just not making the play?
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 1, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually agree with all your points just you
are overlooking that The Steelers are expected to be in control of their destiny.
And after 45 minutes of radiers KC and browns twice there should of been 2 guaranteed wins right there.
Not being ready to unleash hell in December is all on the coach.
by steelerstyle on Sep 1, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't understand that
We are spoiled to the point where we think that if we miss the playoffs due to arbitrary tie breakers its the same as a 4-12 season. It isn’t and shouldn’t be but we hype ourselves up to thinking that. Everyone is a professional in this league. You are not going to win every game against every team. We had beat the browns 12 straight times in cleveland or something stupid like that, they were due for a win. As much as we hate to admit it. This isn’t college football. There are no San Jose St, and Richmonds to schedule for a ‘guaranteed’ win.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 1, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Guaranteed wins
against a team that has been a 5 win team for several years. Yes that should be a guaranteed win. When it is a lose it stems from a mental problem, not talent.
Yea
like I said, there are no guarenteed wins, this is the NFL where those ‘5 win team for several years’ also get to pick from the creme of the crop of talent for several years. They will eventually get some good ones in there and have talent.. As bad as you think those teams are, the league is designed so that they don’t stay bad for long and certain teams go through cycles. Like I said this isn’t college there are no guarenteed wins. What about when we lost to Oak with bill cowher, was it his fault then? I don’t remember people blaming the coach then, it was just oh ben threw a couple of picks not the coaches fault. Why is it different now? Why can’t it just be burnett dropped the game winning pick and it has to be the coach failed to prepared the team mentally?
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 1, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you think it was acceptable we lost to KC, Oakland &
twice to the browns. To me it was not acceptable. Yet I fear you do not understand my point. The point is not that with those four wins we were 13-3 instead of 9-7.
As I said above :“And after 45 minutes of radiers KC and browns twice there should of been 2 guaranteed wins right there.”
My point is that two or even one win in these late season games would have put us in the playoffs. Given the personnel we had last year I cant believe anyone would consider a playoff appearance unacceptably high expectations.
Steelers didn't lose twice to the Browns
"Successful destination is the pinnacle, make no mistake, but the fun is in the journey." - Tim Gleason
by chewiesteeler on Sep 2, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
should've would've could've
but the point is you can’t always go 13-3 and beat the teams that you should beat, it just doesn’t work like that in this league, you will always lose some that you shouldn’t and win some you shouldn’t, you just hope that in a single year that you win more that you shouldn’t than you lose
We should have lost to the Vikings, Detroit, Titans, and Green Bay last year but we didn’t. So it balances itself out.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 2, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
You cant always go 13-3
Which is what I said so we are in agreement
So if you undertand that
then you don’t say its acceptable, but you understand that it happens. Its how it is designed, the league isn’t designed for one team to dominate for a long period of time. So when you understand, you don’t get too bent out of shape your team went 9-7 one year after going 12-4 and 10-6 in previous years. There are plenty of teams that would kill for those records.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 3, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
The semantics between disappointment and unacceptable
Browns raiders and chiefs. To lose to one is a disappointment. to lose all three is unacceptable.
Unacceptable calls for changes to be made. They maybe as small as getting back an experience CB or a new line coach or both or a large change like a new OC (my preference)
by steelerstyle on Sep 4, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
As you said about 5 win teams
this is the NFL where those ‘5 win team for several years’ also get to pick from the creme of the crop of talent for several years. They will eventually get some good ones in there and have talent..
True Very True
But as you see in Detroit, Cleveland and St. Louis it is the GM, HC, and director of scouting, even OC & DC that it is the people at the top as much or more than talent that yields success to a franchise.
Who says there should have been? There are no such things as guaranteed wins. And it is indeed not all on the coach. It is very much on the players to perform.
It is on the coach
in as much as he has final authority and responsibility for the teams performance.
Who's performence?
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Sep 1, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
No win is guaranteed
Any team can beat any other team on a given day. That has been proven year after year. There are no guaranteed wins.
I love being the most-hated guy here. I love beating them while [their fans] are flicking me off. --Hines Ward
Reality?
Come on… seriously?
The only reason we didn’t make the playoffs was because of tie breakers and because the Jets were lucky enough to have 2 teams lay down for them in the playoffs
If you really think that the Steelers didn’t make the playoffs because of " arbitrary tie breakers" then I really have nothing more to say to you.
The Steelers didn’t make the playoffs because of one reason, and one reason only: “We weren’t good enough to make the playoffs.”
It wasn’t the Jets fault. It wasn’t the NFL rules committee’s fault. It was the Steelers under performing.
And when a professional team under performs, you need to look at your coach.
I agree
they weren’t good enough to not let tiebreakers decide. but by record the jets were no better than us. so it was up to the tie breakers. If you can’t see that then you have a problem.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 2, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
My exact quote
I just want the team to be competitive, and the games to be fun and exciting to watch, just like they were last year.
That would no longer be the case in your scenario.
Depends
On your definition of competitive… If they were in every game, you could argue that they were competitive…
But, I like to see you’ve come around on this whole idea of: “Your team needs to actually win the games to be considered competitive…” thing.
Now if I can only get you to understand that the meaning of “Competitive” in the NFL is to compete for the Super Bowl… and to compete for the Super Bowl, you must make the playoffs…
When its brown
it should be wiped until it is gone so it doesnt become a stain
by steelerstyle on Sep 1, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Not Buying It.
I’m a huge Tomlin fan, I think he’s the long term answer and one of the top tier coaches in the league.
I also think your post is logical, all we should expect is our team to be average. Expecting a football team to be dominant every year of every decade is like expecting the Pirates to turn it around and start competing with the Yankees.
However; we are not talking about any team. We are talking about the Pittsburgh Steelers. We are teh measuring rod for the rest of the league, any game against us is a big game, simply because the other team is facing us. Even during last year when we were losing to anyone, wins against us were touted as evidence of the opposing team being a quality team.
We don’t operate at everyone else’s standards of expectation. The standard was set by Noll, Cowher brought it back and Tomlin has touted rather forcefully that it doesn’t change. I don’t for one instance believe that Tomlin thought our hanging in games against Oakland and KC was in any way shape or form anything but an unmitigated disaster and completely unacceptable for the team that was on the field those days.
We lost Aaron and Troy, but the defense on the field those days was more talented than 70-80% of defenses in the league, and our offense had weapons and a line that played better than the one we won a Super Bowl with.
I agree that this team is getting old and our defense is starting the transition to a different era, but they still are one of the best in the business, and with the Ravens are the gold standard other defenses are measured by. I’ll be satisfied with one thing this year, the same thing I’m satisfied with any season.
I expect that the Pittsburgh Steelers be the most frustrating, demoralizing defense the other team plays each season. I expect that our team will be the single toughest out in our league. I want teams to cheer for our opponents in the playoffs, I want OC’s having nightmares trying to prepare a game plan to go against LeBeau. I want, no, I demand Pittsburgh Steeler Football.
We have different viewpoints. I am a Steelers fan, and a big one. I am also a football fan, and a big one. The Steelers didn’t make the playoffs last year, but I still enjoyed watching every playoff game, even without them. I went to a Steelers bar and for almost every Steeler game last year, and despite the losses, enjoyed every one of the games. They were competitive each game, and in the playoff battle right to the very end. I have friends who are fans of other teams who don’t get to experience that every year. or even many years. I am grateful that I do. And, as I mentioned before, it is all I really ask. It’s hard to win consistently in the NFL. I honestly believe more than any other sport. I genuinely appreciate that the team has a shot at the playoffs every year, even if they don’t make it upon occasion.
We are different
I didn’t enjoy the playoff games. There was this terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach, because I knew we should have been there…
Lots of fans feel like their team “should” have. The only teams that should have are the ones that were.
Lots of fans feel like their team "should" have.
The Difference being that we are Pittsburgh Steelers fans… we’re right.
Good point
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 2, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm with you
those losses are not tomlin’s fault. there is not another coach at any level that i would rather have for the pittsburgh steelers than coach Mike Tomlin.
...die trying
http://www.agentorangerecords.blogspot.com
Wow... why?
I like Mike T. I’m willing to give him another year to show us he wasn’t a one hit wonder…
But no other coach at any level?
Give me Tony Dungy. Never had a losing season… made the playoffs for ten consecutive years… Did it with a great team Defense with Tampa Bay, and a great offense with Indianapolis…
And… oh yeah… hired a young coach named Mike Tomlin.
You can have the protegee… I’ll take the master.
Unfortunately, Tony is unavailable… but you said any coach…
wow
another year? how gracious are you? Thats rhetorical, especially when considering the previous coach took over 10 years to win the SB. I bet you were calling for his head in 1999/2000.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 2, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
'95...
I love the smell of burnt O-line in the morning!
-Me, ripping off Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now
but he didn't win it
so he still had to prove he wasn’t a one hit wonder.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 2, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
tony is admittedly a good coach
and i would obviously be happy if he were the coach of the steelers. but, given the choice between he and the warrior poet, i’ll choose coach Tomlin everytime, at least to coach the pittsburgh steelers. if i was looking for a coach for the rams, or the texans, or the vikings, i would pick Dungy. but for the steel city, who never quite got over “the jaw,” i would opt for the impressively intimidating coach T.
it’s not a stats thing, or even something you can measure.
when the time comes, many of us will be arguing that Hines Ward should make it to the Hall of Fame. when we do that, one of the components of our argument will be the “intangibles” that Hines has written into his resume. there is no stat for blocking or teaching rookies or jumping up after a big hit with a smile on your face. but that’s a huge part of who Hines is and why we love him in black and gold.
likewise, i think Tomlin is a good fit, not just because of his W-L record, or the lombardi he got to kiss, but because he has a certain something that i would rather have on my side than across the field.
...die trying
http://www.agentorangerecords.blogspot.com
Two years ago...
Two years ago, I would have agreed with you. He seemed to be the best coach in the world and I was thinking: “How did we get so lucky?”
I loved his one-liners, and his presence. I even liked that he looked like the neuro-surgeon from House.
What turned me was the whole “We will unleash Hell” thing before we lost to three of the worst teams in the NFL. That’s when I started to wonder if his talk wasn’t just talk…
I honestly don’t know. When I say I’ll give him another year, what I mean is by the end of this year we should know.
As for Dungy… we know. There is no doubt that Tony Dungy was one of the best head coaches ever to walk a sideline. The fact that he was our coach first really bugs me… we could have had Tony, but we chose Bill Cowher instead. I know it is sacrilege around here to say that Bill Cowher wasn’t a great coach and the best thing to happen to the Steelers since Chuck Noll… but I am not so sure.
He put up some good numbers, but he also had some down years and was out coached in several AFC Championship games. What would the Steelers record had been if we had hired Dungy in 1992 instead of Cowher?
In fact, I have often wondered if the Rooney’s had severe regrets about it. I wonder if the reason they fought so hard for the “Rooney Rule” was to right a private wrong. Maybe they let Dungy get away because some marketing genius told them that the Burgh wasn’t ready for a black head coach?
Or maybe they just wanted anyone with ties to Chuck Noll gone so they could turn the page… I don’t know. I just can’t figure out how we had the guy as our defensive coordinator and let him get away…
Could
the fact that he didn’t win the Super Bowl last year have anything to do with it? Winning makes everything different, cure all ails. Tomlin is the same coach now that he was last year, sure he learning every good coach does, but he is the same coach that lead us to the Super Bowl. That something you can’t take from him, he has the ring, not cowher. Everyone acts like the shy is falling over one 9-7 year. I don’t get it. Do you seriously expect to win the Super Bowl ever year? If that goal is not obtained then the Coach all of a sudden sucks? That doesn’t make sense to me. This team lost games they shouldn’t have lost just like they did under cowher. That is the nature of the sport these days where the worst teams in the NFL sometimes have the most talent, just hasn’t gelled as a team yet. So I don’t think it reflects on the coach when a team loses some games it should win in the NFL, it reflects on the NFL. That is how it is suppose to work. Every team loses some games that it should win, thats why rarely do teams go 16-0.
I think you’re trying to string things together using very thin strings, imo. Is it possible? Idk but looking at Tony Dungy he isn’t different from Cowher, looking at his record. Tony Dungy personality wouldn’t fit in Pittsburgh. I don’t know about his race, I’m not familiar with the culture of Pittsburgh enough to know that answer. But I do know that Pittsburgh likes brash, tough, in your face style. That is just not Tony Dungy.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 3, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Cleveland killed me
Of all the games mentioned Cleveland looked like our coaches completely got their asses kicked. The raiders was flukey our secondary just couldn’t do anything in the 4th quarter. I’m not sure how a coach prevents that.
But Cleveland was pure game planning in my mind. Hines was injured, but trying to play and the Browns simply put man coverage on him and jammed him at the line. He couldn’t get away.
The Steelers should have pounded the ball all night. I’m not normally one to say that Steelers football is the running game and everyone should fall in line, but that night it should have been. The wind was strong, Ben looked awful and Hines was hurt. We knew the Browns offense wouldn’t put up more than a few points, so we should have just played it safe and shoved the ball down their throats. Instead we kept getting Ben sacked. Sigh…
by Chicago Steeler on Sep 1, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
A good coach needs to adjust.
You can blame BA, of course… or Ben, since he basically pulls BA’s strings. But I blame Mike T for letting it get out of hand.
I really think that the beast got out of the cage on Mike T too fast. He came on board, the FO signed Ben to a huge deal, and he was trying to make his franchise QB happy. He let Ben basically pick his guy. Ben, smarting from Whiz’s tough love approach, wanted an easy “Disneyland Dad” instead, and he got him in BA.
My hope is that the recent Ben fiasco has righted the power structure and now Mike T has what he needs to assert the control a head coach needs.
That is what I am hoping…
by MarkJoel66 on Sep 1, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Are you serious?
Whiz left because he had a better job. Not because Ben pushed him out and Tomlin Ok’d it. The guy had a choice either be a head coach for Az or stay the OC of the Steelers.
What would you do? As soon as he wasn’t picked for the job he was gone.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 1, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
i dont think he ment that
he didnt mean Ben kicked Whiz out of Pittsburgh, he knew Whiz was going to go so he wanted BA, because BA is a tard and likes throwing the ball a ridicules amount of times and puts the game in the QBs hands
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert
"Going after the QB is like playing king of the mountain. When you get the QB, you're on top of the mountain." Joe Greene."I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." Jack Lambert. "I'm a steeler fan, you damn well better believe I'm better than you". Yours truly
"I beat rival fans like Woodley beats QBs......With a club!!!!" yours truly
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Sep 1, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
And how
is that reflection of the ‘making the QB happy and letting him pick the guy’. Did he let the defense decide to keep Lebeau too? Tomlin promoted BA because he wanted to keep continuity the same reason why he kept Lebeau. There is no way he would have known BA and Ben were butt buddies. Truthfully we didn’t know until the whiz left.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 1, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ben lobbied for BA
And after the Super Bowl, he was quoted as telling Tomlin: “Don’t lose this guy! We have to keep him!”
And after last year, when rumors of BA’s demise were flying around, there were reports of Ben lobbying Tomlin to keep BA.
So… yeah… I think they were keeping their superstar QB happy. But now, the QB is just happy to have a job… so I think those days are behind us…
Ridicules
The lazy and underachieving younger brother of Hercules, rarely spoken of in Greek mythology.
who
was it in reply too, i’m curious?
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 1, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
sweet
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 1, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
One of my favorite
obscure Greek semi-dieties
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Leftwich
They need to stick with Leftwich for the 4 or 3 or 6 games that Ben is suspended. They have a plan and they need to stick with it.
hey,
remember when tomlin was playing in the secondary and dropped that easy interception that would have secured the win against oakland?
yeah, that was his fault.
...die trying
http://www.agentorangerecords.blogspot.com
yeah Tomiln did that in more than one game,
funny his number was different in all those games. Don’t forget he missed two fieldgoals in Chicago too.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
So if I understand what you are saying...
Nothing that happens is Tomlin’s fault.
Which means, by inference, that nothing that happens is to his credit, either. I mean, you can get all smarmy and say that Tomlin didn’t drop an interception… but he also didn’t return one for a TD in the Super Bowl either… right?
So, I guess we you are saying that he is irrelevant?
And, I guess BA is too… Hell coaches don’t impact the game at all, I guess? Might as well fire them all and let Ben take over Offensive Coordinator duties, Harrison take over the Defense… and hire some babe who looks good on camera to walk the sidelines and pretend to be coach, huh?
I think he said the dropped INT wasn't the coach's fault
The rest is a little extreme
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
enough with the slippery slope already
are you really saying that Burnett dropping that INT was Tomlin’s fault? agentorange’s only point for me seemed to be that without that individual mistake, we might not be blaming Tomlin at all because he got us in the playoffs even without Troy and Aaron. That’s as bad as blaming BA for the first Dixon pick last week…
What I am saying is that you can't have it both ways
Either the head coach is relevant… or he’s not.
The Tomlin Apologists (and I used to be one) want to say that he is a great motivator… but when your team loses three crucial games to the bottom feeders of the NFL, your argument looks ridiculous.
I’m pretty sure that when Mike Tomlin’s agent went in to ask for a contract extension his argument wasn’t: “Yeah, the team failed to make the playoffs last year, but he doesn’t actually play the game, so none of that was his fault… on the other hand.. the Super Bowl? That was all him…”
Any one play did not make or break the season. You have to take the full body of work and look at it. And when you do, you see a team that seriously underperformed. And when that happens, the coach has to take the blame.
no, you CAN have it both ways
because it’s not all on the coach, and not all on the players. Sure, there were some things Tomlin could and should have done better. But to be quite honest, that was the case in the Steelers’ 08 Super Bowl season as well… it just happens. nobody is perfect. What you cannot do is blame him for everything. A coach can only do so much, the rest is on the players. Or why did Tony Dungy, who is admittedly a great coach, only win one super bowl in the past decade?
I agree with you on looking at the full body of work. Absolutely. But you cannot argue that one missed opportunity by Burnett could have changed the season. Now, should it have all hinged on that play? Absolutely not. but it did, and the player, not the coach, didn’t deliver. Hence, it’s not all on the coach, and not all on the players.
As I said in another thread
I’m out on this discussion… We’re never going to convince each other, and we have better things to discuss after last night…
no, what he’s saying is that mike tomlin/lebeau/whatever coach you want to credit, put burnett in the spot to make the play. at that point in time, the coaching is done, and done well, it’s all about execution.
Well...
Maybe they should have coached him to catch it better.
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Sep 2, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
all the coach can do is put a player in position to make the player, its up to the player to make that play
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 2, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you all
for clarifying my point.
i’m most certainly not arguing that coaches are irrelevant, but that they simply cannot get on the field and execute the plays, as much as they might want to (i remember cowher nearly trying to make a play along the sideline once). Simonsen is right on: if burnett holds onto the damn ball, then we aren’t even having this conversation. furthermore, klompus makes the point even stronger by pointing out that the scheming was obviously successful because burnett was right where he needed to be to secure a victory. he just screwed up.
as for the flip side of the coin, i don’t tend to give too much credit to coach’s for individual plays, either. i think a head coach’s best work is in game planning, in creating a team atmosphere and personality, and in making adjustments in the heat of battle. i, for one, like the fact that since Tomlin came aboard, this team has been like a “band of brothers.” i like his leadership, and if i could, i would sign up to have him lead our team for many years to come.
...die trying
http://www.agentorangerecords.blogspot.com
pretty convenient
Pick one play and let’s pretend the whole season came down to that? That s intellectually lazy. One play never decides a season.
Burnett was in the right spot you say… but why was he in a position where the whole season came down to him? How many other times were the schemes wrong? How many times were the team not prepared? Why did they seem unmotivated when the season was on the line?
One guy? One play? Please… there were hundreds of plays and 52 other guys? You can’t put the whole season on poor Burnett!
The team underperformed last year. There can be no debating that. There is no way the 2009 Steelers should have missed the playoffs. The talent was there.
Happily, we start 0-0 this year.
Let’s see what Tomlin does…
yea
its just pretty convenient that a bunch of times guys were in the position to win the game and they didn’t come up with it. So lets see there were plenty of times when guys were in position. Doesn’t sound like a coaching issue to me.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 3, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
agree to disagree
thanks for the lively discussion!
...die trying
http://www.agentorangerecords.blogspot.com
(sarcasm)
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Sep 3, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty late on this one, but I have thouroughly enjoyed reading this post.
Wll done MarkJoel, this has been a great string.
I think both sides of the Coach Tomlin discussion are valid here. The only thing I would add is that as the head coach, he and his assistants are not and can not be directly responsible for the actualy playing on the field since they aren’t physically out there. However, as the Head Coach, ultimately it IS his responsibility for how the team does. Ugly wins are forgivable; but as expectations are higher for the Steelers, ugly losses are not acceptable.
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