SB Nation Pittsburgh Editor's Pick
Bread and Circuses, or Who Gets the Thumb Down
Although it has been happening at a low level since the spring, today is the first of the big cuts. I'm afraid to look. My maternal instincts are repelled by the thought that some of these young men, who have given their all throughout the long, hot summer since being drafted or picked up via free agency, are about to end up on the auction block again. Them, and a whole lot more guys from other teams. And of course there are the soon-to-come bloodbaths, as the Steelers staff is forced to choose between guys that they would like to keep to get down to the final 53.
Naturally, I have some thoughts on this. Rather than descend into bathos by talking about how much it must suck to be one of the guys that gets cut, I'm going to think about it from the coaches' viewpoint, and muse for a moment on the issues of talent, effort, and potential, after the jump.
I don't have any idea how the coaches actually look at these issues, but if I were a coach, one of the things that would interest me a great deal is the question of talent vs. preparation. Several books have come out in the past few years about this very question, and the conclusion that the authors have come to, based upon recent research, is that talent is largely illusory, and that preparation is all. I frankly find their arguments interesting but ultimately not entirely convincing. They do, at least, admit that there may be physical reasons why someone is likely or unlikely to excel at certain things. For example, I don't expect that Mike Wallace would ever be a successful left tackle, prepare as he might. Then there are the cases that are a bit less clear, like the 5'2" running back at Clarion University. (If you didn't see the article, check it out here.) But three questions I would definitely be asking myself when determining who to cut are 1) how much raw ability does this guy appear to have; 2) how well has he used that ability thus far, and 3) how much potential does he have to improve in the future?
How much raw ability does this person have? That's a harder question to answer than you might think, even if you ignore the whole talent vs. preparation question. For a football player, there are some fairly obvious things you can begin with. How suited is their particular makeup to the position(s) they play? I began to understand more about this after reading The Blind Side. The author's description of the very specific physical type required for a left tackle was an eye-opener for me. After reading that I began to understand some of the things that had puzzled me in posts as a new fan - discussions about Willie Colon's short arms, for example. And of course you have the added wrinkle of assessing not just what a player was born with, but what they've got left after playing high school and college football. I presume that to a certain extent you have to go with your gut in deciding whether a player is likely to continue to have problems with, say, a blown out knee. The medical professionals are more likely to be able to tell you if something is sure to be a problem than to be able to assure you that something is not going to be a problem, so you have to add that risk to the equation.
Once you've gotten past that, you can look at some of the measures of basic athleticism, like the tests they run at the combine. That may give you an idea of how gifted a player is, and how well he has used his abilities thus far, but it may mostly tell you how well he prepared for the combine. It doesn't tell you whether his combine numbers were an anomaly. You might never see numbers like that again from a guy, or he might in fact be capable of much better than he did at the combine, for a variety of reasons. Now that you have seen him in camp, you've begun to get an idea of whether he is shaping up to be the player you hope that you drafted. That is, assuming that he didn't get hurt the first day of camp and sit out half the practices...
There is another aspect of "talent" that is even harder to assess. I don't know how the coaches do it, but if I were considering a player I would look at how intelligent he is, practically speaking. I wouldn't much care if he could diagram a sentence or excel at differential equations. I would care a great deal whether he can process a lot of information quickly, and whether he has the practical common sense to know how to use that information. Can he remember which route to run? Can he work out when things are going awry, and make the necessary adjustments? But even more than that, I would care whether a guy is curious. Is he interested enough in what he does to want to know how it is that the great players at his position achieved what they did? Is he curious enough to find out why things are done the way they are, and wonder whether there is another way to skin that particular cat? There may be no "I" in "team," but a team is the product of the individual contributions. As long as the players all have the same goal of winning games, and are willing to work with the coaching staff towards that goal, greater individual contributions are likely to equal greater team play. I wouldn't be very excited about a player who just did what they were told and left it at that. I'm not looking for rebels, but I am looking for active participants, for those who don't take the easy way out.
There are very few perfect players. I have become increasingly convinced that football is rather like a Greek tragedy, in which many of the best athletes have a fatal flaw. Depending on what that flaw is, it may or may not prevent them from having a successful career. You have, for example, the freakishly good athlete whose lack of discipline in their personal life means that they eventually end up suspended, in jail, or dead. You have the workout warrior who is dumb as a sack of rocks, and try as they may, they can't remember reliably where they are supposed to be when. And so on. So I would have to get over wanting the perfect player and start figuring out whether I can make better players out of the ones I have to work with. And a large part of that equation is the second issue, preparation. Or work ethic, or heart, or whatever you want to call it. Do they want to excel badly enough to go above and beyond expectations, whether it is working out, studying film, or just being willing to throw themselves at a guy that is twice their size?
But there is another element to this - are they coachable? Because you need guys who not only want to excel but who believe that you and your coaching staff can help them to do that better than they could help themselves. Mike Tomlin uses the expression "prideful" to describe the players, generally when they are losing. By that I presume he means that the guys take pride in what they do, and aren't willing to think that, say, a 9/7 season is good enough. But pride cuts both ways, and if it bleeds over into arrogance you've got a problem. It's a bit like the fine line he spoke of in terms of aggressiveness vs. getting slapped with big penalties. I wouldn't have wanted to be Keenan Lewis getting the dressing down from Tomlin as he pulled him out of the game on Sunday night (on national television, no less.) And yet Tomlin didn't seem entirely displeased when he discussed it in his interview yesterday. In football, as in so much of life, the dividing line between great and stupid is often rather thin.
Finally, there is potential. What if you've got a guy that you are almost certain is going to be terrific in a year? What if it is two years? What if you are almost certain that he is going to be terrific in three years, but right now he just isn't getting it? How do you balance your future needs with your present necessities? The practice squad might not be a viable option for one reason or another, and then what do you do? If it were me, I would wish we had a farm team...
All of this musing has brought me to one main conclusion - that I'm really glad it isn't my decision who goes and who stays. I can't imagine how the coaches can work intently day after day with these fine young men, and then have to tell them that they didn't make the cut. I'm sure that the members of the coaching staff are losing a lot of sleep right now. Here's hoping that they make the right choices. And when they have made them, here is a momma flutter of the handkerchief to the guys that didn't make the cut. I wish you all the best, and thank you for what you have brought to the Steelers, whether it was for a few months or for multiple seasons. And I really wish it didn't have to be thus.
72 comments
|
Add comment
|
9 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
What a day!
First a write up by MR, and within minutes a write up by…..MR!
It’s been a little bit of heaven today at BTSC.
Great write up momma, glad to see you back!!
IT is great the way you wrote this from what has to be a coach’s point of view. Seems like you nailed it on the head.
Things can always be worse....
That's the length I'm used to
Great post, Momma. I think it’s time to start farm systems for teams. I think a practice squad of 8 guys is not enough. Especially if they move to 18 games.
by Chicago Steeler on Aug 31, 2010 4:26 PM EDT reply actions
Nice piece
Enjoyed sharing camp with you and your family.
Seems like the Steelers could use your articulate style, to let about 20 guys go.
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
Are you saying
that they could have me talk to the players they are thinking of cutting, who would then just leave rather than have to listen to me? It’s worth a try, and I’m willing to give it a go.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Aug 31, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
No, that isn’t at all what I meant.
I meant that you would tell them in a way, that wouldn’t hurt as much.
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
Thanks!
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
MOMMA ROLLET FOR TURK!!
"Successful destination is the pinnacle, make no mistake, but the fun is in the journey." - Tim Gleason
by chewiesteeler on Sep 1, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
MR and MR
the dynamic duo.
Thanks Mama for another great post. I am surprised this isn’t front page yet.
How do I break it to the cat that since he has been declawed, the rabbit he sees in our backyard would kick his sorry butt?
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Aug 31, 2010 4:33 PM EDT reply actions
Good stuff Momma...
Step back and think stuff. I like it.
Also, I’d like to see more on the RB… the 5’2" one. There are no video clips of him anywhere, and being vertically challenged myself, I like to root for the little guys.
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
That was a fascinating article -
the question is, will anyone be able to look past his height (insert obligatory short person joke here) and see the complete player? I would certainly hope so. I loved the idea of him hiding behind the O line…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Aug 31, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed momma, and agreed worldtrip...
If the recollection of what the scout said per the coach is accurate, he has the tools. That’s why I tried to find some Youtube clips or something, but there were only photo montages.
I would like to see him play, becuase a small, fast back with good hands would fit in well with the Steelers, in my opinion. Also, Philadelphia loves guys like him, if anyone would take a shot on him, it would be the Eagles.
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Aug 31, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Alfonso Hoggard 5-foot-23/8 150 pounds. Darren Sproles 2.0, it would be a pain for the D to try and find him, and if he can catch it makes him that much better, a very small returner seems like a good deal as well
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert
"Going after the QB is like playing king of the mountain. When you get the QB, you're on top of the mountain." Joe Greene."I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." Jack Lambert. "I'm a steeler fan, you damn well better believe I'm better than you". Yours truly
"I beat rival fans like Woodley beats QBs......With a club!!!!" yours truly
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Aug 31, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Stefan Logan
is listed as 5’ 6’’ and 180 lbs. I highly doubt either of those are true. Wouldn’t be surprised if 5’ 2" and 150 were closer to reality.
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
I'm still confused as to why he hasn't gotten any looks at HB really...
And I think that’s part of the reason I’m pulling for him to make a play and secure a spot on the roster.
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Aug 31, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
excellent
thoughtful, insightful – very pleasant to see your ideas fleshed out on the page – always with a slightly different viewpoint.
thank you!
by lamarr_the_BEAST! on Aug 31, 2010 4:55 PM EDT reply actions
Excellent
I’m not sure the maternal-me could have an easy time making the cuts (especially if a veteran player’s head is on the block…. one you know, that gave years of blood/sweat/tears) and the yearly wrestling match within me comes down to being loyal to an individual or loyal and unbiased to the team. Glad I don’t have to make those decisions…. but what I could do is be the take-him-by-the-ear and provide the very stern talking to when foolish penalties move the chains the wrong way. I have experience in that department.
When the tailgate drops, the BS stops. Shut up and play!
Indeed.
I sometimes think that a few stern momma-looks would do more to straighten up the guys then all the spittle-flying lectures from the coaches. Personally, I think they should pay us to sit on the sidelines and keep the guys in line…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Aug 31, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Works for me
Let the contracts be drawn up. Personally I think Lewis needs to sit in-between us for a few games…. just till we’re sure he understands.
When the tailgate drops, the BS stops. Shut up and play!
Comment fail : (
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
It's all relative
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
No, no, no,
Btsc is being really wonky this morning, at least on my iPad. “Comment fail” was supposed to go under the reply that ended up under your comment, and obviously the one about the ear was supposed to be in response to 1BlkGldFan. It’s looking like it’s going to be a long day : (
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
ok.....
You’re ipad is possessed
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
*your
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
I made the same "you're" mistake a couple of days ago
It was embarrassing.
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
Yeah
I was actually going to say something else that did start with “you’re” but I deleted everything but “you’re” because the new statement began with “your” but never thought to change the spelling.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Oh those IPad's...
Try this… see if that helps.
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Sep 1, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, interesting idea.
I think I’ll pass, though : )
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Ha... good call...
What do you think of that thing? Worth it to buy one?
I bet a fun thing would be to go way back in time to where there was going to be an eclipse and tell the cave men, "If I have come to destroy you, may the sun be blotted out from the sky." Just then the eclipse would start, and they'd probably try to kill you or something, but then you could explain about the rotation of the moon and all, and everyone would get a good laugh.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Sep 1, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally love it.
But it would entirely depend on how you want to use it. And actually, probably an ordinary golf ball would work better for the use they put it to in the video…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You can borrow "the glove" if you change your mind
To try and then fail, is not unacceptable. But failing to try, is accepting failure.
I am not worthy...
But I am honored that you would offer.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
We could each grab an ear,
And squeeze if he shows signs of being restless.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Tony Dungy
would love this.
Steelers football is supposed to be 60 mins, recently it's been 45. The additional 15 are currently under construction.
by tannofsteel84 on Sep 1, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Excellent!
Very well written and thought provoking. As one who has always had more desire and drive than actual talent (as an athlete and musician) I can empathize with many of the things that the guys on the bubble are going through. Too bad I never had someone as nice as you tell me I stunk…..
"...and that you can print!.... Jeff Bebe "Almost Famous"
by OhioYinzer on Aug 31, 2010 11:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
lol
Nice.
Hope you’ve been well man.
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
by Michael Bean on Sep 1, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
great post!
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
did you expect anything less from Momma
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Don't wory, I'm an untrained professional" WVPF
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Sep 1, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
It took me two days to read that
Just kidding. And don’t make any cracks about PG County schools!
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Luckily for you
I left out the whole bit where I compared it to singers. It would have taken you a week. ; )
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
hmmm
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Hmmm
Now that is something I can relate to on many levels. If I recall correctly you made a similar analogy in a post awhile ago (maybe last year?) and I found it an excellent comaprison.
"...and that you can print!.... Jeff Bebe "Almost Famous"
We could each grab an ear,
And squeeze a bit if he seems to be getting restless…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
*scratching head*
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
See above...
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
nice write-up
you ask a lot of questions that ppl have been debating for decades. there is certainly no clear cut formula for figuring out what’s most important
hands down
this is the best thing i read on the interwebs today. i am now a momma rollett fan!
...die trying
http://www.agentorangerecords.blogspot.com
Gosh, thanks!
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent, excellent piece momma
I think you are very close to, if not dead on concerning the issues of talent evaluation and development. I recced it because you uncovered some different levels that I’m sure many fans don’t even consider.
Let me take it a bit further. I discussed this with former with a former player. What about the player who may too intelligent? What do I mean? What if I question certain types of decisions because there might be a long term negative effect on my health, or because I might understand (even before the coaches) that the results will either be counter productive or simply unnecessary for success. To the point; do I want a critical thinker who might not automatically salute every decision? Do I want someone who has other life options (think Rhodes Scholar Myron Rolle) and may be less inclined to undertake certain risk, such as playing hurt, because of fear of losing his job? These factors may come into play as well.
Thanks momma. Really good stuff.
by Ivan Cole (RickVa) on Sep 1, 2010 6:27 PM EDT reply actions
Rick, you make an excellent point.
A singer that is ‘too intelligent’ can have problems resulting from the fact that they overthink everything. That’s why I inserted the proviso “practically speaking.” I’m not sure it is so much a matter of too much intelligence per se, but of intelligence that is introspective in nature. And since ultimately both choral singing and football are team sports, that doesn’t work so well.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Momma, you bring a unique perspective to this site, thank you
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
Praise from maryrose
is praise indeed.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
How are you MR?
I’ve been slowly perusing From Black to Gold. Would have loved to sit down and read it in one shot but, with the new arrival, things have been nuts. In any event, I just read Chapter 4 – The Rivalry. Having been born in 1971, I grew up a Steelers fan in the hay day of the one sidedness favoring the Steelers (Browns didn’t win at TRS until 1986). Your descriptions bring back so many memories. One of the most vivid being Turkey Jones slamming TB into the turf after the whistle. And SI had the nerve to say that Tom Brady plays in a tougher era! HA! Anyway, love the book. I very much look forward to the limited time I get to pick it up and read.
"Successful destination is the pinnacle, make no mistake, but the fun is in the journey." - Tim Gleason
by chewiesteeler on Sep 2, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
This is the type of writing that can be related to on many levels and many fields.
And probably couldn’t hurt to be posted on many an HR Office wall…not just sports teams/coaches.
Great job Momma R…..
Honorary thumbs down to Roger Goddell
for giving Shaun Rogers a fine for bringing a loaded gun to an airport, otherwise known as a federal offense, instead of some sort suspension
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Don't wory, I'm an untrained professional" WVPF
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
I don't know
that anyone would lose much sleep over giving him the thumbs down, at least not amongst Steeler Nation. Although I still think we will realize in a few, trouble-from-Ben-free years, that he actually did us a favor.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 1, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
i know everyone is mad at Roger for his arbitrary discipline system, but i’ve been saying from the outset of this thing that it will be good for the steelers in the long term, even if damaging in the short term. and if we get through the first quarter of the season at 3-1 or even 2-2, then it isn’t even that horrible for the short term. just think: at the start of the second quarter of the season, you get a fresh and healthy starting qb, while many teams will be playing with QB1’s who are banged up.
and from a big-picture perspective, i truly believe this is good for Ben. and what is good for Ben is good for the steelers. the Tomlin quote in Momma Rollett’s box says, “you learn more in failure than you do in success.” i believe that applies here, if anywhere. and we will find a more competent and able leader guiding our pittsburgh steelers in the years ahead. and for that, i’ll go ahead and stand up and wave my terrible towel.
...die trying
http://www.agentorangerecords.blogspot.com
I was watching ESPN yesterday
and they said Goodell could decide to reduce the suspension to 3 games after the meeting on Friday and that the Steelers plan to specifically request that. I was under the impression this whole time that Ben was suspended at minimum 4 games. Anyone else hear anything similar?
"Successful destination is the pinnacle, make no mistake, but the fun is in the journey." - Tim Gleason
by chewiesteeler on Sep 2, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I heard that BB's representatives were going to ask for 3...
but they did not want to ask for too much out of fear that he won’t reduce it at all, which is always a possibility with Goodell and they way he has been handing out punishments. Case in point, I caught the headline teaser that Tone will still get to practice with the Jets while he is suspended.
Things can always be worse....
CORRECTION
I just found the article…He can attend meetings and workout at the Jets’ facility, but cannot practice with the team, nor meet with the coaches.
Things can always be worse....
So
how can he attend team meetings without meeting with coaches?
"Successful destination is the pinnacle, make no mistake, but the fun is in the journey." - Tim Gleason
by chewiesteeler on Sep 2, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
that was my thought as well...maybe sit in the back with his "dunce" cap on
Things can always be worse....
yeah, I'm cornfused
"Successful destination is the pinnacle, make no mistake, but the fun is in the journey." - Tim Gleason
by chewiesteeler on Sep 2, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
pretty sure
that the commish dotes out his penalties after consulting with the psychic hotline, or casting lots. or maybe he spins a giant wheel like on the wheel of fortune.
...die trying
http://www.agentorangerecords.blogspot.com
Ah, that would explain it
Dione Warwick doesn’t know shit from shinola
"Successful destination is the pinnacle, make no mistake, but the fun is in the journey." - Tim Gleason
by chewiesteeler on Sep 2, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
she doesn't know
candy from paint chips either….if you know what I mean
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
There's a difference?
"Successful destination is the pinnacle, make no mistake, but the fun is in the journey." - Tim Gleason
by chewiesteeler on Sep 2, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
doh!
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by 
















