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The Difference Between Quarterbacks

I made a quick comment - quick for me, only two paragraphs : ) - in Minihulk's post about whether Ben Roethlisberger would be the quarterback in Game 5.  Her post was prompted, of course, by the fact that Tomlin refused to declare Ben as the starting QB for that game.  I think that we are mostly agreed that, barring injury or some other unforeseen circumstance, Ben will be taking the snaps.  But why are we so convinced?  More speculation, after the jump:

Star-divide

I used the comparison of an orchestral conductor to try to illustrate the difference between Ben and our corps of backups.  But it occurs to me that many of you may have never played in an orchestra, or perhaps even a band, and that therefore the illustration is not entirely effective.  So I thought I would explain a bit more just what that means, and how a world-class conductor differs from the rest of the pack. 

 

The conductor's art is a rather strange one.  There are about 100 people on stage in a symphony orchestra, generally speaking.  All of those people are polished, seasoned professionals.  (We are assuming a world-class symphony for the purposes of discussion, not unlike, say, our own Pittsburgh Symphony.)  And all of those people are playing instruments, save for the person in the front of the group.  He (or she) is waving his or her arm(s) about, but not contributing a single sound to the mix (except for the cases of the conductors who sing along, and generally speaking, it doesn't improve the occasion.)  Because of this fact, there are numerous conductor jokes.  A typical one would be "What is the difference between a bull and a symphony orchestra?"  Answer - "In a bull, the horns are in the front and the asshole is in the back." 

 

So what is the conductor doing?  You probably assume that the conductor is helping the orchestra play together, and you might very well be wrong.  Because there are four sorts of conductors.  There are the complete hacks, who don't have the slightest idea what they are doing, there are the competent but uninspiring backups, there are the up-and-coming but inexperienced youngsters, and there are world-class conductors. 

 

So how on earth would a complete hack have the opportunity to conduct a world-class ensemble?  Well, it doesn't happen very often, but it does happen.  That's when, say, the president of a large corporation who has been a steady donor to an orchestra decides that they want to have a go at it.  They usually have a small amount of training and a large amount of hubris, and they worm their way into a gig by playing the money card, either overtly or by implication.  Or you have the famous musician, either classical or popular, who decides to take up conducting, and the orchestra calculates that their star power will attract enough audience to offset their downside for an occasional performance.  So what happens when an orchestra is being "led" by someone who is only marginally competent (or worse?)  The players batten down the hatches, avoid looking at the podium, and play together, generally following the concertmaster (the head violinist.)  This happens more than you might think, and the results are often quite okay, which merely encourages the hack conductors to think that they have something to offer.

 

Then you have the competent backups.  They are often young, up-and-coming conductors, who staff the major orchestra's "Assistant Conductor" list, and are hoping to make enough of a name to get their own orchestra. They have some real upside, but they aren't sufficiently experienced and polished to be a consistently good conductor yet.  They might eventually become an elite conductor, but they aren't now, and may well never be.  It's sort of like Dennis Dixon - he knows that he's highly unlikely to be the starter in Pittsburgh, but he's hoping he has enough chances to shine here that some team without a franchise quarterback will take him on as their starter.  Or they can be career backups, like Charlie, and like Byron has turned out to be - not what they dreamed of right out of music school, but better to be a backup with a great orchestra than the head conductor of a small regional orchestra, because you just don't have the same quality of personnel to work with.  They can step in and do a fine job as sort of a game manager.  They don't actually get in the way, as the hacks do, and they can craft quite a decent performance which seems great to the uninitiated.

 

But finally, you have that tiny, elite group of world-class conductors.  There aren't enough to go around - there are more excellent orchestras than there are elite conductors. (And without a top-quality conductor, an excellent orchestra is never going to take that final step to greatness.) These are the conductors that make an orchestra play better than they knew they were capable of - that draw things out of the music that you've never heard or noticed before.  So what is the difference?  Is it chemistry?

 

Strangely, chemistry is very helpful, but not entirely necessary.  A former conductor for many years of the Pittsburgh Symphony who shall remain nameless is a undisputed master at his trade. He moved on to bigger and better things when he left town. And pretty much nobody likes him.  You could even state it more strongly than that.  Yet orchestras play very well for him, even though they may begrudge it, because in the end they know that their reputation is caught up with that of the orchestra, but also, I think, because they can't help themselves.  So, is it technique?

 

Again, not necessarily.  I've heard some fabulous playing emerge from orchestras being led by conductors with no technique at all. Again, technique can be very helpful, but you can have a superb technique and yet not be in the top echelon of conductors. 

 

And then there is the question of how conductors are any use at all, other than to start and stop together.  After all, with the best will in the world, the players aren't looking at the conductor the majority of the time.  They have many fistfuls of notes to play, and since they play different pieces every week, they can't very well memorize them, so they have to be looking at their music most of the time.  The effect that the conductor has on the players is only partially visible.  So how is the conductor communicating?  I've pondered this for many years, and have come to the conclusion that it is some sort of weird mental communication.   And it is really difficult to explain, unless you've experienced it.  But it is almost as if the conductor reaches into your soul and shows you stuff you didn't know you knew.

 

Well, as with most analogies, this breaks down eventually.  A conductor is also, in a sense, the head coach for a team.  It would be as if Mike Tomlin coached the team all week in practice, and then stepped onto the field to be the QB on Sunday.  But my main point stands.  A hack may prevent the players from achieving anything at all, try as they may, or they may be on a tight enough leash that the rest of the players can compensate for their inadequacies.  A competent quarterback doesn't get in the way of the other players.  An up-and-coming quarterback may do some great, exciting things, but they may also make some major errors during the learning process. Overall, they probably won't draw a truly inspired performance out of the players. Conductors, like quarterbacks, have to learn on the job.  You can study all you like, (and you need to have a solid understanding that only comes with study,) but the true learning takes place on the field, in a game where the results matter.  But the elite quarterback, like the elite conductor, knows how to make his players look good.  They may be stymied by incompetence in the ranks, of course.  But given a reasonable situation, they make everyone around them better. 

 

Because of the unprecedented situation this year, I had the opportunity to directly compare the four guys during training camp. I quickly came to the conclusion that Ben is worth the money we pay him.  He is, in fact, in that small group of elite quarterbacks, even if this fact is not yet acknowledged by a lot of the talking heads.  He can, of course, destroy himself and waste his gift, and in the past year he seemed well on his way to doing that.  I'm happy to say that the consequences for his actions, although they may not have met a standard of impartial justice, have likely saved him from that fate.  I'm incredibly excited to see what he is going to be drawing out of our offense this season.  I'm grateful that we have people like Dennis, Charlie, and Byron to get us through the first few weeks, but I have no doubt that we will be welcoming #7 back to the fold for Game 5.  Go Stillers!

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Well said. BB without a doubt will be the QB upon his return. If not Tomlin needs his head examined. But it is still curious why he would hve answered the question the way he did, it creates silly controversy.

by JimmieDiesel on Sep 8, 2010 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Great Analogy.

I never played past a smidgen in college, but one of the things I remember most about my High School conductor is she had the knack of knowing when you were starting to get lost and you’d steal a glance up and she’d set you straight. Being somewhat scatterbrained I did that a lot. I was exposed in college as a very minor talent, and have no doubt that the high opinion people had of my ability was largely due to my conductor.

The point?

When this offense starts to break down and stall is when we sill see what Dixon is made of. If the guys rally to him and make plays when the chips are down, then we’ll know he’s got something special. Ben might not have been well liked in the locker room, but he’s gotten good performances out of guys named Cedric Wilson and Nate Washington that caused other teams to overestimate their ability.

It’ll be an interesting season for certain.

Again great analogy.

by Phantaskippy on Sep 8, 2010 2:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Another great write up.

It always amazes me how you can relate the musical/orchestral world with football, great job

Things can always be worse....

by ncmt40 on Sep 8, 2010 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Holy wall of metaphorical text Batman!

I hope I can read it all before the season opener.

by Blitz-burgh on Sep 8, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Sep 8, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you prefer

I can try allegory…

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 8, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Settle down there, home slice...

momma gets a tad verbose, sure, but her insights are unequaled on this site.

I’ll tell you what I’d tell anyone who complains about another persons writing style: “Don’t like it? Don’t click on the post.” Basically, you know what you’re going to get with a momma po(a)st, and if you can’t sacrifice 20 minutes (average) to read it, then don’t.

Pretty simple, actually.

"SteelFever gets #93. Just like Ron Artest. Great game just keep an eye on him that he doesn't go into the stands after a fan."
- 5020 on my making the BTSC active (riot) squad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC0NCHq4v3I

by Steel Spike on Sep 11, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

wonderful work, Momma

again i am impressed with your ability to write. it is a joy to read. thanks for taking the time to write it. and i couldn’t agree with you more: Ben is a master, and it excites me to think that maybe – just maybe – we haven’t seen his best yet.

...die trying
http://www.agentorangerecords.blogspot.com

by agentorange on Sep 8, 2010 4:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I get it

You want Ben to be your conductor for four weeks. Why didn’t ya just say so?

"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." - samliam

by alfresco on Sep 8, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Shucks, forgot the: ...

"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." - samliam

by alfresco on Sep 8, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why - do you have his number?

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 8, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

x3...

"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." - samliam

by alfresco on Sep 8, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

7

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Sep 8, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good one...

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 8, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

This may help

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2010/9/4/1669454/btsc-by-the-numbers

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Don't wory, I'm an untrained professional" WVPF
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Sep 9, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

BB and Beautiful Music

I will cede the discussion of whether Ben is a good conductor or a bad one… I’m sure you know more about that than I do… however…

I have to quibble a bit with this:

I had the opportunity to directly compare the four guys during training camp. I quickly came to the conclusion that Ben is worth the money we pay him.

I think that is a conclusion prematurely made. Ben may or may not be worth the money we pay him — that’s not the point — the point is, with all due respect, you can’t possibly know that from watching four guys play in the pre-season.

The number one rushing back in pre-seaon last year was Redman. This year it is Jonathan Dwyer… now (… the Redman running gag notwithstanding) does anyone think that the pony backfield should be Dwyer and Redman?

For that matter, IIRC, Ben failed to score a touchdown this pre-season. Both Dixon and Leftwich had touchdown passes… so, just what is it about Ben that you saw that made him The Anointed one?

I’m not saying he isn’t, mind you… I’m just saying that four games (or in Ben’s case three) against teams that didn’t game-plan is hardly a fair body of work.

If Dixon is 4-0 and tearing up the league (and for the record, I don’t think he will be…) I think we’d be foolish to sit him to bring in a QB who hasn’t played a meaningful snap in over a year, and is more rusty than the lock on Lady Gaga’s chastity belt.

Please understand that I am not completely disagreeing with you. I’m saying that it depends. If we are 2 and 2 (or below) Ben starts. No question. But – comparisons to Andre Previn aside — This isn’t an orchestra. Last time I checked, no one was trying to tackle or leg whip the conductor… (Too bad… because I can imagine the crowds the Philharmonic would draw around here if they would!)

Football is a violent game played by men who put their bodies on the line for a chance to play for the Lombardi. Yes, there is poetry found on some levels, but at its heart it is violence and impact. This team will follow the guy into battle who leads them to victory. If that guy is named Dennis Dixon — if he leads them to four victories and the guys believe in him… then he will be the guy leading them the rest of the way.

And Ben will have to be content to play second fiddle…

by MarkJoel66 on Sep 8, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions  

That is a momma-length reply!

You may well be right about this:

I think that is a conclusion prematurely made. Ben may or may not be worth the money we pay him — that’s not the point — the point is, with all due respect, you can’t possibly know that from watching four guys play in the pre-season.
However, the point I was trying to make is that what separates the great ones, either conductors or quarterbacks, from the rest is something almost indefinable. Certainly football seems more straightforward, with lots of statistics and certainly more measurables than most anything music-related. And obviously it doesn’t matter how much ‘star power’ a quarterback has if they aren’t producing the numbers. But I still contend that there is something beyond the measurables that separates the elite QBs from the rest of the pack.

As to what I saw about Ben, it’s all about his control of the field. It’s almost like time slows down when he’s out there – or is that just because he holds the ball so long? lol…

You may, of course, be completely correct. We’ll know, soon enough. But as to football being a different thing altogether than an orchestra concert, that’s pretty obvious. And yet they are both performances, and many of the issues – perhaps many more than you would think – are common to both.

And somehow, I can’t see Ben ever playing second fiddle. His giant hands would crush that tiny little thing. At least give him a cello…

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 8, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree about the intangibles

If you add in Ben’s IT factor in the playoffs and SB XLIII, I think your argument is much stronger…

And, drawing on a music analogy one more time… what was the quote… something like: “True genius is not measured by the notes… it is measured by the space between the notes…”

And as I said elsewhere… I think the discussion is somewhat moot, because I don’t think DD hands Ben a 4-0 team. I would love to have that problem, honestly… but I don’t think it will happen…

by MarkJoel66 on Sep 8, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

hey, I love the Cello!

played it for 10 years… great post momma

by Simonsen on Sep 9, 2010 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bass Fiddle should work

I would think

How do I break it to the cat that since he has been declawed, the rabbit he sees in our backyard would kick his sorry butt?

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Sep 9, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

As to what I saw about Ben, it’s all about his control of the field. It’s almost like time slows down when he’s out there

I agree. I spent several afternoons at training camp and I saw the same thing. There is a noticeable difference when Ben is on the field. It seems like Ben elevates the play of the others around him. Throws the other qbs were struggling with, he made look effortless and the receivers looked much better when Ben was throwing to them. The touch on the ball and the ball placement were far better when Ben was playing. Even in practice Ben shows that the others aren’t even close to being in his league.

by gsiegel on Sep 9, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly believe that Dixon has a 0% chance of winning the starting job over Ben, as long as Ben keeps on the “virtuous” pass he is on.

"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"

by John Stephens on Sep 10, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

pass = path

"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"

by John Stephens on Sep 10, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

wow

  I get back to reading the rest after I have sex with my super- model girlfriend.

"sale the team" sweetleb

by sweetleb on Sep 8, 2010 6:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I think

He is saying that both are as unlikely to happen…?

by MarkJoel66 on Sep 8, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know, just taking the chance.

by Phantaskippy on Sep 8, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

The Super Model part…OK… but if the pics get posted someone please crop them

by MarkJoel66 on Sep 8, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is this The Return of Hi5?

IIRC, he had a girlfriend who looked like a supermodel (at least according to him), and never made it past the first paragraph of my posts…

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 8, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dunno

But I do wonder about that sig of his… I wonder if he understands the difference between a noun (Sale) and a verb (Sell)

by MarkJoel66 on Sep 8, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

http://www.dorktower.com/2010/09/08/dork-tower-wednesday-september-8-2010/

How do I break it to the cat that since he has been declawed, the rabbit he sees in our backyard would kick his sorry butt?

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Sep 9, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tom is that you?

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Sep 8, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't recognize the world-class conductor, but I did recognize the hack.

Arians. He has the unique ability to make everyone look worse, no matter how much talent they have.

by Billy52 on Sep 8, 2010 9:27 PM EDT reply actions  

HERE'S ANOTHER TAKE ON THE MUSICAL ANGLE, SON.

BIG BEN IS DAVID LEE ROTH TO DENNIS DIXON’S SAMMY HAGAR. DIFFERENT STYLES BUT BOTH OF THEM BRING SOMETHING UNIQUE TO THE TABLE AND CAN TAKE OUR TEAM TO THE TOP OF THE CHARTS.

AS LONG THE STEELERS WIN (and getting keep churning out the hits ). IT DOESN’T MATTER WHO TAKES CENTER STAGE FOR THE STEELERS

by CUoNTour on Sep 9, 2010 2:51 AM EDT reply actions  

HERE'S ANOTHER TAKE ON THE ALLCAPS FEATURE

YOUR A DOUCHE TURN OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK OR TAKE YOUR VULGAR SCREEN NAME SOMEWHERE ELSE. NO ONE LIKES TO BE SCREAMED AT BY A CONDESCENDING JACKASS, SON.

"Successful destination is the pinnacle, make no mistake, but the fun is in the journey." - Tim Gleason

by chewiesteeler on Sep 10, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Did you...

just compare pre-DLR Van Halen with post-DLR Van Halen and say they were equal?? Wowza. You lost a lot of clout (not that there was much) with your “Mendenhall is better than Bettis” comments, but now what you say holds absolutely zero water.

Also I agree with chewiesteeler about the screenname. Not funny in the slightest and too obscene for shock value. You might want to change it.

by Cannon36 on Sep 12, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't forget about the album they did with

eXtreme frontman Gary Sharrone (SP?).

A buddy of mine went to a show on the only tour they did with Gary, and during a lull in the set, he yelled out “You suck, Sharrone!!”, and it timed out perfectly to where there was total quiet, and you could hear it loud and clear everywhere. Classic.

"SteelFever gets #93. Just like Ron Artest. Great game just keep an eye on him that he doesn't go into the stands after a fan."
- 5020 on my making the BTSC active (riot) squad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC0NCHq4v3I

by Steel Spike on Sep 12, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Conductors

I generally dislike celebrity reality shows, but one I did like, at least for a few episodes was this British one with celebs competing against each other conducting a symphony. This particular one had Goldie (legendary drum and bass or jungle DJ) on it, and that was just awesome, seeing how musically talented a conductor has to be, while being a leader at the same time.

Not sure bout the QB — conductor analogy, it may be more apt to like a player-coach type comparison, but I feel yeah. Hardest position in sports, imo.

by tkired on Sep 9, 2010 8:11 AM EDT reply actions  

and

Ben is a Maestro, SON

by tkired on Sep 9, 2010 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

As I said,

the analogy does break down, but in both cases the person is in charge of the performance. They can’t control all aspects of the execution, naturally – the individuals making up the team or the orchestra have to do that. Nor can they control the individual abilities of the various players, or control the amount of individual preparation that has taken place. But, come Sunday, they are charged with making it all work.

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 9, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice Post Momma

"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"

by John Stephens on Sep 9, 2010 10:34 AM EDT reply actions  

almost nobody at orchestra could tell you who was conducting if they closed their eyes.

This was a terrible “metaphor”. Almost no one at the orchestral performance could tell you who was conducting if they closed their eyes. I know the audience members pretend they can, especially if they paid over $30 for tickets. Conversely, almost everybody in the stdium can see the scary talent and command BB bring to the game.

by buddydial on Sep 9, 2010 12:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, to "see" the "scary talent" in the stadium

presumably people have to have their eyes open, so it’s hardly a fair comparison. And your assertion about the fact that “Almost no one at the orchestra performance could tell you who was conducting” is not the whole story. It is well known that the best conductors elicit a certain characteristic sound from orchestras – not just their own orchestra, but to a lesser extent orchestras that they guest-conduct as well. Certainly not everyone can hear the difference, but not everyone at an NFL game is educated enough about the game to see the difference either.

I speak from experience on both the musical and the football side – until a year and a half ago I knew nothing about football, and watching it (as I was forced to do for short periods on rare occasions) was meaningless to me – I just saw a bunch of guys running at each other. It takes a certain level of knowledge in anything as complicated as music or football to appreciate the nuances.

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 9, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well written.

And again, very good analogy as far as it goes. I liken it to playing the guitar, or any musical instrument for that matter. I can read some music, play some chords, and blast out a cool solo now and then, but no one with even a modicum of hearing would confuse me with John Petrucci, Steve Vai, or Eddie Van Halen. The great ones have IT. As indefineNle as IT may be, it is the truth. And BB definitely has IT.

"...and that you can print!.... Jeff Bebe "Almost Famous"

by OhioYinzer on Sep 9, 2010 4:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Indefineable?

Is that even a word?

"...and that you can print!.... Jeff Bebe "Almost Famous"

by OhioYinzer on Sep 9, 2010 4:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's a word -

but I don’t know what it means : )

Thanks!

"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Sep 9, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Momma- great proposal for a study

Momma,
I really like your posts and I go right to them. In this case I think you bring up an excellent study possiblity. Have a “typical” audience that does go to the symphony at least once a decade, and have them listen to 2 CD’s. One CD is of a respected orchestra with their own director. The other CD is of the same orchestra with a famed and higher-profile director. Take data on the responses. Surely some form this study has alreaday been done. We can then compare that data set with the response of the Yinzers ( and that would include me) to watching the Stillers with and without Ben as evidenced by this board in December.

by buddydial on Sep 9, 2010 10:56 PM EDT reply actions  


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