Brady, an overrated playoff QB.
by SteelerBrazil on Jan 16, 2011 9:24 PM EST
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Well, every Pats fan tell us they have the clutchest QB on the league and blah blah, how great he is in Playoffs. Is it really the truth?
2001
| WK | Game Date | Opp | Result | G | GS | Comp | Att | Pct | Yds | Avg | TD | Int | Sck | SckY | Rate | Att | Yds | Avg | TD | FUM | Lost | |
| 19 | 01/19 | OAK | W 16-13 | 1 | 1 | 32 | 52 | 61.5 | 312 | 6.0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 15 | 70.4 | 5 | 16 | 3.2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | |
| 20 | 01/27 | @ PIT | W 24-17 | 1 | 1 | 12 | 18 | 66.7 | 115 | 6.4 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 14 | 84.3 | 2 | 3 | 1.5 | 0 | -- | -- | |
| 21 | 02/03 | STL | W 20-17 | 1 | 1 | 16 | 27 | 59.3 | 145 | 5.4 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 86.2 | 1 | 3 | 3.0 | 0 | -- | -- | |
| TOTAL | 3 | 3 | 60 | 97 | 61.9 | 572 | 5.9 | 1 | 1 | 5 | 36 | 77.3 | 8 | 22 | 2.8 | 1 | 1 | 0 | ||||
2003
| WK | Game Date | Opp | Result | G | GS | Comp | Att | Pct | Yds | Avg | TD | Int | Sck | SckY | Rate | Att | Yds | Avg | TD | FUM | Lost | |
| 19 | 01/10 | TEN | W 17-14 | 1 | 1 | 21 | 41 | 51.2 | 201 | 4.9 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 73.3 | 5 | 5 | 1.0 | 0 | -- | -- | |
| 20 | 01/18 | IND | W 24-14 | 1 | 1 | 22 | 37 | 59.5 | 237 | 6.4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 76.1 | 5 | 1 | 0.2 | 0 | -- | -- | |
| 21 | 02/01 | CAR | W 32-29 | 1 | 1 | 32 | 48 | 66.7 | 354 | 7.4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 100.5 | 2 | 12 | 6.0 | 0 | -- | -- | |
| TOTAL | 3 | 3 | 75 | 126 | 59.5 | 792 | 6.3 | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 84.5 | 12 | 18 | 1.5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||
|
2004 Postseason |
Games | Passing | Rushing | Fumbles | ||||||||||||||||||
| WK | Game Date | Opp | Result | G | GS | Comp | Att | Pct | Yds | Avg | TD | Int | Sck | SckY | Rate | Att | Yds | Avg | TD | FUM | Lost | |
| 19 | 01/16 |  IND |
W 20-3 | 1 | 1 | 18 | 27 | 66.7 | 144 | 5.3 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 29 | 92.2 | 4 | 6 | 1.5 | 1 | -- | -- | |
| 20 | 01/23 | @ PIT |
W 41-27 | 1 | 1 | 14 | 21 | 66.7 | 207 | 9.9 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 11 | 130.5 | 2 | -2 | -1.0 | 0 | -- | -- | |
| 21 | 02/06 | @ PHI |
W 24-21 | 1 | 1 | 23 | 33 | 69.7 | 236 | 7.2 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 17 | 110.2 | 1 | -1 | -1.0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | |
| TOTAL | 3 | 3 | 55 | 81 | 67.9 | 587 | 7.2 | 5 | 0 | 7 | 57 | 109.4 | 7 | 3 | 0.4 | 1 | 1 |
1 |
||||
Big Bens Stats
2005
| Postseason | Games | Passing | Rushing | Fumbles | ||||||||||||||||||
| WK | Game Date | Opp | Result | G | GS | Comp | Att | Pct | Yds | Avg | TD | Int | Sck | SckY | Rate | Att | Yds | Avg | TD | FUM | Lost | |
| 18 | 01/08 | @ CIN |
W 31-17 | 1 | 1 | 14 | 19 | 73.7 | 208 | 10.9 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 6 | 148.7 | 4 | 3 | 0.8 | 0 | -- | -- | |
| 19 | 01/15 | @ IND |
W 21-18 | 1 | 1 | 14 | 24 | 58.3 | 197 | 8.2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 14 | 95.3 | 5 | -3 | -0.6 | 0 | -- | -- | |
| 20 | 01/22 | @ DEN |
W 34-17 | 1 | 1 | 21 | 29 | 72.4 | 275 | 9.5 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 7 | 124.9 | 3 | 12 | 4.0 | 1 | -- | -- | |
| 21 | 02/05 | SEA |
W 21-10 | 1 | 1 | 9 | 21 | 42.9 | 123 | 5.9 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 8 | 22.6 | 7 | 25 | 3.6 | 1 | -- | -- | |
| TOTAL | 4 | 4 | 58 | 93 | 62.4 | 803 | 8.6 | 7 | 3 | 6 | 35 | 101.7 | 19 | 37 | 1.9 | 2 | 0 |
0 |
||||
2008
| Postseason | Games | Passing | Rushing | Fumbles | ||||||||||||||||||
| WK | Game Date | Opp | Result | G | GS | Comp | Att | Pct | Yds | Avg | TD | Int | Sck | SckY | Rate | Att | Yds | Avg | TD | FUM | Lost | |
| 19 | 01/11 | SD |
W 35-24 | 1 | 1 | 17 | 26 | 65.4 | 181 | 7.0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 98.4 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | |
| 20 | 01/18 | BAL |
W 23-14 | 1 | 1 | 16 | 33 | 48.5 | 255 | 7.7 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 32 | 84.8 | 2 | -2 | -1.0 | 0 | -- | -- | |
| 21 | 02/01 | @ ARI |
W 27-23 | 1 | 1 | 21 | 30 | 70.0 | 256 | 8.5 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 22 | 93.2 | 3 | 2 | 0.7 | 0 | -- | -- | |
| TOTAL | 3 | 3 | 54 | 89 | 60.7 | 692 | 7.8 | 3 | 1 | 8 | 58 | 91.6 | 5 | 0 | 0.0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||
But Brady lost his edge long time ago. He is a great QB, first ballot HoF, but is he really a GOD?
Big Ben has a better rating, despite having two or three defenders in his shoulder.
Ben is already a HoF. The best QB ever for our franchise.
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Why didn't you show the 2007 stats for brady?
"Did you really expect Joe to have it as easy as you think it would be against James "I want to stomp of your children’s testicles" Harrison and Lamar "I’ll kick your grandmother" Woodley? I sure as hell didn’t." - Malor
This was hard to read
"Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
Just want to show the stats of the titles
He was MVP two times, bla bla, but the stats dont lie, Big Ben was a big part for our two titles. And he should have an even better stat in 2008, but our OL was awful. Brady wouldnt make till playoffs with that OL.
Dockett had 3 sacks that day. And he is a DT.
All I need to know.....
Since the 2005 playoffs, Big Ben and the Steelers are 8-1 with 2 Super Bowl titles! During that same time, Brady and the Pats are 5-5 in the playoffs and no titles.
Paper Champs, I mean Patriots can’t seem to string victories together when it matters most.
PS.
What he did to be the SB MVP on 2001? 150 yards? 1 TD? really?
Kurt Warner and Brees played lights out on SBs and nobody put them on the conversation of the clutchest QB.
The real MVP of that game was Ty Law
Or maybe the entire Pats defense.
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever
-Napoleon Bonaparte
As for CJ, he’s going to get his. That’s what he does. You can’t hold him under 100 yards, so forget that.
-August West
CJ's Stat Line, 9/19/10: 16 carries, 34 yards, 1 fumble
Cornell University Class of 2014
by LV Steelers Fan on Jan 16, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Panasonic maybe?
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." Martin Luther King Jr.
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jan 17, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
No, Branch was MVP in 2003 vs Carolina
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever
-Napoleon Bonaparte
As for CJ, he’s going to get his. That’s what he does. You can’t hold him under 100 yards, so forget that.
-August West
CJ's Stat Line, 9/19/10: 16 carries, 34 yards, 1 fumble
Cornell University Class of 2014
by LV Steelers Fan on Jan 16, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
nop, Brady was MVP in that one too
Branch was MVP in 2003 vs Philly
by steelermaniac1991 on Jan 17, 2011 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, I forgot
I just remembered Branch being good in both of those games.
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever
-Napoleon Bonaparte
As for CJ, he’s going to get his. That’s what he does. You can’t hold him under 100 yards, so forget that.
-August West
CJ's Stat Line, 9/19/10: 16 carries, 34 yards, 1 fumble
Cornell University Class of 2014
by LV Steelers Fan on Jan 17, 2011 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
I always thought
if Brady or Manning or anyone else had put up Ben’s SB 43 numbers, that’d have been an automatic MVP. Because it’s Ben, the WR gets it
My Steeler Vs Raven Erection is still poppin through my sweatpants
just an fyi : )
by Steelchamps !! on Jan 16, 2011 9:47 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Wow, that is
WAY TMI!
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 16, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
hahahaha
"I hated putting on that purple uniform, and I hated that raven bird. What really ticked me off is when we played Pittsburgh our whole stadium seemed to be filled with Pittsburgh fans." Tackle Orlando Brown
this should be green
"I hated putting on that purple uniform, and I hated that raven bird. What really ticked me off is when we played Pittsburgh our whole stadium seemed to be filled with Pittsburgh fans." Tackle Orlando Brown
Really?
I cant really tell….
Iron sharpens Iron
by Michael Hewitt on Jan 17, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Burn!
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 17, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
That's cold
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
if he was doing that here
it certainly would be
"I don't mind being a symbol but I don't want to become a monument. There are monuments all over the Parliament Buildings and I've seen what the pigeons do to them."
"Canada is like an old cow. The West feeds it. Ontario and Quebec milk it. And you can well imagine what it's doing in the Maritimes."
Tommy Douglas
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 17, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
lol
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Ok
My wife is gonna show me how to do pics again……
Im not claimin" no King Kong here….but you WILL tell.. : )
( BOING)
Its starting to hurt cuz it wont go down!! ahhhh I Love it
by Steelchamps !! on Jan 17, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
If you have an erection that lasts over 4 hours...
"I don't want to see anyone injured, but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone" - James Harrison
by LifelongSteelerFanInVa on Jan 17, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Unless somebody correct me i believe that
That was Tom Brady third consecutive playoff game lost (Giants, Ravens and Jets), how bad that sound?
"Everytime NE Patriots lose, Football wins", myself
great signature
ur correct sir
"Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
true
they haven’t won since the 2007 AFCCG vs the Chargers…. love the phrase btw
by steelermaniac1991 on Jan 17, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
This round rating
Big Ben had a 101.8
Brady had a 89 rating. But excluding that last drive that was bullshit would be around 81.
With a great protection.
PS. Do you laugh when a pussy QB just fall to the ground on a sack. At least three of Bradys sacks would be avoided by BB.
yeah he is a huge bitch
literally throwing himself on the ground when he is grazed, and intentionally grounding to get out of trouble, damn pussy
"I hated putting on that purple uniform, and I hated that raven bird. What really ticked me off is when we played Pittsburgh our whole stadium seemed to be filled with Pittsburgh fans." Tackle Orlando Brown
Brady slipped to 14-5 (.737) lifetime in the playoffs tonight. Ben took his mark to 9-2 (.818), behind only Bart Starr on the all time winning percentage list.
There’s also an interesting article at Pro Football Reference (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=8328), which looks at how far above expectations (based on regular season performance) different QB’s teams play in the postseason. Ben’s 9th and Brady’s 25th on that list (which was complied before this weekend).
"It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we of Spurs have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory."
Former Tottenham Hotspur manager Bill Nicholson
here are some examples of how stats to lie.
brady was once 100% in playoff wins. so what. the more you play the more you are likely to lose. even after losing to the giants in his 4th SB he was 14-2 in the playoffs (87.5%). for ben to match this mark he needs to win the next two games plus go another year, win the division and go straight to win the SB.
brady has made the playoffs 88.8% and ben made it 71.4% of the time. by definition your playoff record will be worse b/c taking a marginal team to playoffs and losing 1st round adds one to your loss column. in essence brady is penalized for making the playoffs when he has anything less than a SB winner. even if you take a team to the SB but lose, that year, your playoff winning percent is at best 75% and worse 66.7%. no where is the fact that you didn’t even make the playofffs show up in the playoff winning %.
brady is 80% in AFC championship games (4/5). ben is now 66.7% by sunday ben will either be 75% or 50% (3/4 or 2/4) by sunday evening. i could go on all day. WTF? what does it mean? nothing.
a QB could only go to the playoffs once and win the SB and he would be 100%. at one time brady was 9-0. i doubt if that number has ever been reached even by bradshaw or montana. i could be wrong, don’t know.
I totally agree
Brady is definetly overrated. I will admit he is a great QB, but if you watch a pats game you will see how much time he gets in the pocket. He has upwards of 6 seconds in the pocket regularly, imagine what Ben could do with that kind of time. People do not understand how much Ben does, he makes the most incredible plays and wills his team to victory despite playing behind a sub par o-line and constantly being hit. Put all the top qb’s in the league behind the exact same O line and i promise ben would be the best finally considered truly ELITE and get the respect he deserves. We all know how brilliant Big Ben is but no one outside of steeler nation understands what a talent ben truly is. He is tough as nails and above all is a proven WINNER.
exactly
People do not understand how much Ben does, he makes the most incredible plays and wills his team to victory despite playing behind a sub par o-line and constantly being hit
I say draft nothing but O linemen this year. BB deserves the ultimate protection, then he might be unbeatable!
I hope you die in a fire, that was set accidentally, by someone you love.
-Jim Norton
by steelerfreak76 on Jan 16, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Tom Brady
I absolutely hate Tom Brady but I do recognize his ability and the success he’s had against the Steelers, but can anyone truly remember many games where Brady completed a game-winning touchdown at the end of regulation. I must admit that’s he’s set his teams up for game winning fieldgoals but thats it. I would take Ben 100 times out of 100 over Brady when the chips were down and with a leaky offensive line. Tom Brady has always wilted in the face of overwhelming adversity or facing a superior pass rush. Could you imagine Tom Terrific playing with a broken nose. He would need a stunt double. Tom Brady is great when he’s up by 21 points, but he aint the dog you want in a dog fight.
Dude should be known as a CHOKER.
Not a big game QB.
2005: Throws crucial pick to Champ Bailey to lose game.
2006: Throws game losing INT, trying to mount a late TD drive. FAIL. His team chokes and blows one of the largest leads in playoff history.
2007: He lays an egg in the Super Bowl, puts up only 13 pts, in perhaps the greatest upset EVER.
2008: Punk hurts knee. That didnt stop ROD from returning that same season.
2009: Stinks up the joint as his team gets hammered by Ravens.
2010: Stinks up the joint as his team gets hammered by Jets.
How many more years do we have to see this guy choke in the post season before we knock him off his high-horse and label him what he truly is: a punk azz choker!
That grounding pass to avoid the sack was just icing on the cake. punkazz.
Stay thirsty my friends.
by SteelerMessican on Jan 16, 2011 10:23 PM EST reply actions
Another thing I want to know???
… How does Brady rate to be ranked #21 on the NFL All Time Top 100 Players. Obviously, Belichick has a hacker who’s into the NFL computers. Maybe we need to start calling Billy BelicHACK.
The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.
by Hollywood Steel on Jan 16, 2011 10:54 PM EST reply actions
i hate tom brady, but how do you ignore his work?
currently best regular season winning percentage 77.6%, of all time.
in his first 304 playoff pass attempts, brady threw 3 interceptions, all time record.
brady threw 339 pass attempts without an interception, all time record.
won 3 SB in1st 4 years as a starter, all-time record.
best playoff % with at least 15 games.
bradshaw and brady currently have exact same playoff record 14-5, montana is 16-7.
started career 9-0 in playoffs, all-time record
5 players with at least 4 SB appearances: montana, bradshaw, brady, staubach and elway.
brady and aikman have 3 SB wins behind montana and bradshaw, staubach and elway only 2.
right now there are exactly 4 QB in 45 years who have 3 or more SB wins and only 5 to be in 4 or more super bowls.
if you are going to call brady a choker as i have seen here, then by definition bradshaw and montana are also chokers. it is one thing to hate tom brady because he beat us 2X in AFCCGs. it is another thing to ignore all facts in some kind of wishful thinking.
I'm not calling Brady a choker...
….and Peyton Manning should be ranked closer to Brady IMO (that’s a positive comment for Brady and a negative against Manning). Manning’s rank is an even bigger joke. If the press and NFL pundants what to talk about & use things like “It Factor”, then Roethlisberger has “IT”.
The problem with stats is that they are fixable – “best playoff % with at least 15 games” – factor… give me a break. I believe full-out playoff records state the Steelers with Ben have the best playoff record and the Pats with Brady are about 2-3 levels below. Best all time receiver for the Steelers between 2006 & 2007 is HInes Ward – what does that statement prove on the “greatest 100” list?
My point for several guys on that list is, the list says “Top 100 Greatest Players” – illuding to all time players. After this year, Brady’s & Manning’s stats drop in overall comparision depending on the next few weeks. I doubt the way the list is being generated that Roethlisberger will be ranked in the top 25 if he were to win SB XLV – he probably won’t even make the list.
If this list were not a popularity contest and strictly by stats… then let’s adjust the stats to 14 game seasons, no-dome-indoor stadiums (games played in weather), O line quality, D line quality, WRs stats, pass completions under 5 yds – over 5 – over 10, QB protection rule adjustments, etc. While we’re at it, let’s factor in an age number for those voting – some of the voters don’t even know or heard of great players like a Y.A. Tittle. Y.A. was one of the most talked about and respected players of the time and was on the cover of numerous publications, had his head cracked open in a game (blood gushing like a fountain) – got stitched up and went back into the game… he didn’t ask for a rule to be created – he didn’t even ask for a clean jersey.
QBs are only as good as their supporting cast – this was quite evident in the Jets – Pats divisional playoff (also Manning in Colts game). In addition to being sacked 5 times, Brady’s QB rating for that game ranged from 50.9 to the final average of 89.0 after the Jets went to prevent D in the 4th qtr and gave him the lower 20 passing yards for free. That sounds a lot like one of Roethlisberger’s bad days – should Ben then be in the top 30 players also? Ben on the list yes, top 30, probably not… not yet.
QBs in general get too many cudos for a gamewin/season when the men in the O-line-trenches make or break a QB’s performance (and RBs too for that matter). This goes for college level too. Matt Leinart for example – Heisman winner, 1st rounder with $51mil contract. He was headed for the list in his rookie year based on the PR – his stats could be “fixed” too.
The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.
by Hollywood Steel on Jan 19, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
i agree with you
stats are unfair, you can manipulate them anyway you want. here is the only fair way to compare ben to brady.
this is ben’s seventh year, he may go to the SB and win it for his 3rd. he has 2 playoff misses and lost in the playoffs twice.
in brady’s first seven years he went to 4 SB winning 3, lost 3 playoff games (one being the SB) and missed the playoffs once. at the end of brady’s seventh season he was 14-3 in the playoffs.
within 3 weeks, ben will either have 3 playoff losses or remain at 2. he has no way to match brady’s earlier record but he may be able to catch up b/c brady’s last 3 years have been weak by his standards.
when i said at least 15 playoff games, it was arbitrary but my point was that none of the all time greats have a 800 career winning percentage in the playoffs, brady included.
just because ben is 9-2 playoffs now doesn’t mean he will beat bradshaw’s or brady’s 14-5. as we speak, this is the best percentage ever amongst the top SB QBs.
what i am saying is you can’t compare ben’s winning % to brady’s b/c brady played in 19 games and ben has only played 11. assuming the next two wins, he will be almost identical to brady at the end of his seventh year. ben will be 13-2 and brady 14-2.
i think ben can surpass brady, b/c brady has underperformed in the playoffs in last 2 years. he will need some luck to stay healthy and he obviously needs a good team. it is possible the steelers can make a run like the patriots, 49ers or steel curtain did. i hope this happens, as i hope ben and the team are 17-2 in the playoffs, but looking at history there is a very low chance of it happening.
Thanks for the breakdown kk..
… as you outlined it above, it is a fair and objective statement.
Now I guess the NFL needs to set the standards by which they consider anyone (and any position) to be considered for the "Top 100 Greatest Players". The NFL probably should wait until careers have ended and then “Weight” the number of games in the career, including perhaps an age factor at the point of performance of the player, to calculate any stats supporting the rankings. For example; if a QB wins 2 SBs in his 30’s, that could (should ?) be weighted heavier than a QB with 2 SB wins in his 20’s. Maybe this is not necessary… but the method should be defined up front.
Chileburger is pretty darn good with stat spreadsheets – maybe he could layout a stat guideline that could be followed.
The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.
by Hollywood Steel on Jan 21, 2011 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
thanks
i made some mistakes, ben will have an 11-2 (not 13-2) playoff record if we win the SB this year.
brady’s playoff record was 14-3 (not 14-2) at the end of his 7th year.
ben didn’t make the top 100 b/c he had only 2 SB at the time they did the survey. ben has also improved greatly since the last SB win. if they do it again ben should make it. montana deserves to be #4, he went 11X to the playoffs and won 4 SB. peyton is nowhere near montana, brady or ben.
at the end of the day, winning has to carry more weight than anything. this hurts great talents like Marino, Jim Kelly and Elway but there is no way to tell how good they would be on better teams.
here is another way comparisons are unfair. let’s say you are the 2nd best QB in NFL history but you come into the league the same year as the best QB in NFL history. both of you get your teams to the SB but the 2nd best loses every year. in other words, the level of competition you play against determines your all-time ranking. maybe you are the best ever, but there is so much parity in the league you can only win 1 or 2 SB. maybe montana had weaker competition than brady or ben face? how do you weigh this? it is totally impossible to make it fair.
this is why i call brady an all-time great QB and i see ben as a possible all-time great QB too. if the steelers can pull off a SB win, i declare ben an all-time great QB, one of only 5 players who won 3 SB.
this is the best analysis i have ever seen
this is a ranking of the best QB of all time with at least 15 playoff appearances.
1. Joe Montana
2. Terry Bradshaw
3. Tom Brady
4. John Elway
5. Troy Aikman
6. Roger Staubach
7. Peyton Manning
this weights playoff and SB appearances and wins as well as playoff and SB %. assuming ben wins a 3rd SB he would probably be around Elway or Aikman. here is the link if you want it:
Great Article kk...
… what I respect with this list is they give the criteria up front – agree with the criteria or not, at least it sets the rules of the competition.
Thanks for the link-up.
The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.
by Hollywood Steel on Jan 21, 2011 2:56 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough... It'll never be Fair !
… Right now it looks like whoever has the most press (and/or commercial endorsements) gets the gravy.
The thing that pees me off the most is – you should not be able to make the list until your entire career is over & the stats qualify. They could have a “Future 100 Player” list (like HoF lists) for the yet active players. In that case, Brady & Manning & Ben could be listed there… and Farve if he comes back again.
The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.
by Hollywood Steel on Jan 21, 2011 2:43 AM EST up reply actions
the writer is fair
he mentioned ben but could’t include him right now, too young and needs more playoff games. and he says that both brady and ben have the chance to surpass montana. if that happens, it shows how good the competition is right now. right now you potentially have 3 of the top 10 QB ever playing at the same time.
the better question
how is peyton manning #8, brady and ben should be ahead of peyton.
Difference between brady and ben is
that ben still gets it done when the offensive line isn’t up to snuff. look at the 08 SB run and this year. The line for a myriad of reasons wasnt and isnt a good unit, talent-wise. Brady was the beneficiary of great offensive line play. if you switch Ben with Brady, NE would have been as good, if not better over the last 5 years while Pittsburgh would have been worse.
that may change this year
it will be the 2010 Steelers who hold the record.
"I don't mind being a symbol but I don't want to become a monument. There are monuments all over the Parliament Buildings and I've seen what the pigeons do to them."
"Canada is like an old cow. The West feeds it. Ontario and Quebec milk it. And you can well imagine what it's doing in the Maritimes."
Tommy Douglas
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 17, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
We will hold the record for most offensive line combinations ever
but not worst, Pouncey is a Pro Bowler in his rookie year and Flozell has been to a few Pro Bowls in his career as well. So it may be the 2nd worst line to ever win a SB.
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." Martin Luther King Jr.
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jan 17, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
okay
I will concede you that this will be the SB team that had the most o-line combinations during the season.
"I don't mind being a symbol but I don't want to become a monument. There are monuments all over the Parliament Buildings and I've seen what the pigeons do to them."
"Canada is like an old cow. The West feeds it. Ontario and Quebec milk it. And you can well imagine what it's doing in the Maritimes."
Tommy Douglas
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 17, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
yea, but
if bellicheck had ben, he would be less concerned with the OL and spend his money elsewhere. bellicheck knows he needs a good line to protect brady which means he can’t focus as much on the DL or the CBs. if Tomlin had brady, he would get an OL that can protect brady. if he wanted to focus more on D, which is pgh tradition then he would trade brady.
it’s like saying if Walsh wasn’t there to run the west coast offense, Montana would be just like Marino. Coaches are not stupid, especially Bellicheck and Tomlin, they decide what works best for their QB and work around that. NE D is not that good, they have to play to their strength and try to outscore you. at this point what other choice do they have until they repair their D. all the big name NE playmakers like Teddy Bruschi are long gone.
Peyton Manning is overrated in the Playoffs
Brady…..50/50
"They are an awesome group to have on my side. And on Sundays I always feel a little bad for the other quarterback, but not too bad."-Ben Roethlisberger on the Steeler's Defense-
100% Authentic woman. Yes it's true. I looked it up on Google
Procrastination isn't the problem, it's the solution. So procrastinate now, don't put it off
bottom line
brady made playoffs in 8/9 years he started. in those 8 playoff years he went to 4 SB. this is pretty good. every other playoff year he has made the SB.
before this year ben played 6 season. 4 playoff appearances and went to two SB. this is amazing also.
this year ben will either have 3SB in 5 years or 2SB in 5 years. either way, this is an amazing accomplishment.
brady’s early 3 of 4 SB wins as a starter are unmatched in history and all-time great type stuff. there was no way for him to keep up this pace, otherwise he would have 6 rings already which would mean steelers probably don’t win any during his time. in the last 3 years brady sat out one year and he lost 2X in first round of playoffs. this is less about him being clutch or overrated and more about him being human and unable to defy the “law of averages.”
to be honest
I am somewhat blinded by his early SB success still, probably like most people are.
But yeah, he has not been as good recently.
Appreciate the enthusiasm, but...
…really? We’re going to call a 3-time SB champion QB, with a 14-5 playoff record and one of the winningest QBs ever, a QB that’s somehow lacking in the context of playoffs? IMO, no way jose.
Hey, I’ll agree he’s struggled lately (three straight one-and-dones), but I don’t see how this completely offsets his earlier success. If he’s an “overrated playoff QB”, then who’s more deserving of this kind of honor? That’s going to be an extremely short list.
Know what I’m grateful for? The fact that our very own Big Ben is the one current QB that is even close to Brady’s accomplishments. In pretty much every respect (stats, postseason success, regular season accomplishments, etc), BB’s career has the potential to exceed Brady’s (especially if seventh heaven comes in three weeks). That to me is one hell of an impressive and awesome thing.
by gcn on Jan 17, 2011 1:44 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I don't think anyone is slamming his early success.
He’s thought of as being perhaps the best clutch QB in the playoffs of all time, but he hasn’t been anything like that the past 6 years. 6 years is a long time to be underachieving in the playoffs, and the Patriots have woefully underachieved in that time span.
He’s a great QB, maybe best all time, but he’s no longer the great playoff QB that he’s billed as any longer. Yes, 14-5 record, but he started 9-0, and the Patriots have lost games they were heavy favorites in the process.
" Just go and lay your hand on a Pittsburgh Steeler fan, and then I think you'll finally understand"
" In America" Charlie Daniels Band
by idiscgolftexas on Jan 17, 2011 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
hate brady, but put him in the right perspective.
ben is playing in his 7th season now, 2 SB, 2 playoff losses and 2 missed playoffs. by the SB he will either be 2/7 or 3/7, this is a huge difference. if he does not win this year he is far behind brady, to keep pace he will have to go to SB in next two years and win 1.
montana won 4/4 SB but he also had 7 playoff losses.
bradshaw won 4/4 SB but he had 5 playoff losses
brady played n his 9th season, 3/4 SB, 5 playoff losses, missed playoffs once. most of brady’s success was stacked earlier in his career.
here is where we tend to get into trouble. ben is 9-2 so we figure he will be 18-4 or some similar percentage, this is not how life works and it won’t happen this way. just like projecting that brady has lost the first playoff game in last 3 years so he will keep doing this.
there was no way brady or any human could maintain the pace of his early career or he would have 6-7 rings already. ben will fall back to earth also, just as brady did. ben will likely lose a SB in his career and he will get knocked out of the playoffs early, that won’t mean he isn’t clutch or overrated. it will mean he is human just like brady, montana and bradshaw who all have about the same playoff winning percentage.
very unbiased analysis but brady has 2 one and dones, not 3
our hatred for brady is distorting the facts, let’s not make stuff up to bolster our opinions. brady was a benchwarmer his first year, not sure if he got 5 snaps. here is his correct playoff history as a starter:
1. SB win (3-0)
2. missed playoffs
3. SB win (6-0)
4. SB win (9-0)
5. won WC, lost to broncos (10-1)
6. lose AFCCG to colts (12-2)
7. loses SB to giants (14-3)
8. brady is injured 1st game, sits out rest of season, miss playoffs
9. lost 1st round, ravens (14-4)
10. lost 1st round jets (14-5, his current playoff record)
steeler fans are biased against brady just like NE fans are biased against ben, but in our eagerness let’s not dream stuff up. people here had me believing pats lost in 1st round in last 3 years. even i started writing and believing this. someone else said that steelers went to 5 AFCCG while pats only went to 4. it sounded funny, so i looked it up, in his first 7 years, brady went to 5 AFCCG winning 4. now that is an amazing record even for the enemy.
the last 2 years are the only years brady was “one and done” in his 8 playoff years.in his last 3 years he lost one SB and exited the playoffs twice in the first round. great by NFL standards but Brady has set the bar way too high for himself. the expectations are so hight that anything else but a SB win is abject failure for Brady.
just an observation
in the years he played, brady has never gone 3 years in a row without being in the super bowl.
in fairness, here is ben's record
2004 – AFCCG loss to NE (1-1)
2005 – win SB (4-1)
2006 – missed playoffs
2007 – lost 1st round, jags (4-2)
2008 – win SB (8-2)
2009 – missed playoffs
2010 – beat ravens (9-2) rest is TBD
Just to confirm
Finally, Scott took a look forward while commenting on Tom Brady’s penchant on Sunday for seeing a phantom rusher coming.
“It’s not the first time we saw him duck,” Scott said. “We saw him duck the last time we were here. Ben Roethlisberger is one of the very few brave quarterbacks who’ll stand in there and take a bullet for his team.”
Bart Scott about Tom Brady.
it's no secret
that Brady lacks toughness.
stats are BS
but until ben or someone else gets 3 rings, you give it to brady. not to mention, brady has been 4X ben or peyton are closest with 2X.
call brady whatever you want, but 3 out of the first 4 years he played he won the SB. whoever retires with the most rings wins, everything else is just BS. ben can surpass brady but brady is also a moving target, ben needs two more rings without brady winning any. with one more ring brady is all-time, no QB has been to 5 SB and has 4 rings. best so far is 4/4 with montana and bradshaw. stats can be made to look any way you want but rings don’t lie. rings cut thru all the BS and represent the true winners.
Brady is far from done....
Look at that roster, I give Brady a ton of credit. Granted lately in the playoffs he hasn’t had as much success as he has in the past, but they will be back in the coming years with the stockpile of picks they have. That teams skill position players are well below most, if not all of the other playoff teams with one exception, QB. Without Brady and Belicheck that team is well below average, if not the one of the worst teams in the league.
I do not wanna write this guy off as being a choke artist, I can easily see that team winning again in the coming seasons, and then he will be much higher then 21 in the next top 100. I agree with kk99, 4 trips and 3 rings with a promising future is all that matters. I am just glad we get the Jets at home and don’t have to travel to foxboro.
exactly
the more you play the more you lose, the law of big numbers and averages get to you. in 9 years he played brady only missed the playoffs once. plus he took a team 16-0 even though the giants beat them. i am still amazed the patriots were 14-2 this season? who are their great players? none of them have had time to mature. plus they have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds.
next year will tell you a great deal whether the pats can make another run or brady sails into the sunset. he has to truly love the game and want more rings or he would just call it quits. he has nothing to prove.
we gotta get the facts straight
brady is not overrated unless bradshaw, aikman and montana are also overrated.
pats are not overrated unless the steelers are overrated too.
steelers are better in the last 5 years, pats were dominant in the prior 5 years. over the decade they have a slight edge even if we get 3 rings in the next few week.
steeler fans are so blinded by their hatred, we can’t get the facts. i have seen here that the pats lost the playoffs in the first round in the last 3 years. it’s just delusional. in the last 2 years, pats lost to jets and ravens 1st round. prior to that, brady sat the whole season and 4 years ago the pats went 16-0 and lost to the giants in the SB.
under brady, pats have been to 5 AFCCG, but i have seen people say it is only 4.
you want to say you hate brady and the pats, i agree. you want to say pats underachieved in last 2 years, ok. want to say the pats are done, this too is probably wishful thinking. Even with Kassel, when Brady was out they went 11-5 and missed playoffs by a hair.
brady’s 2nd year as a starter he missed the playoffs, since then he has never missed. 7 years in a row to the playoffs as a starter. this guy wants another ring and he will be back.
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