Big Ben Has Answered His Critics
by Joseph Munley on Jan 3, 2011 10:32 PM EST
Email
Print
As the 2010 season began there were very few people who gave the Pittsburgh Steelers a second thought as an elite AFC team. There were simply too many questions, and the biggest of those questions were centered on Big Ben Roethlisberger.
Now that the Steelers have answered any questions regarding their 'elite' status by securing the second seed in the playoffs & winning the AFC North with their impressive 41-9 victory over the Browns, this is as good a time as any to look at how Big Ben has answered those questions aimed at him.
The win over the Browns actually served as a nice bookend to Ben’s regular season as it was the Browns whom he faced in his first game back from his 4-game suspension at the beginning of the season. In that contest, Ben threw for 257 yards, 3 TDs & 1 INT. That game served to answer the first question, "How rusty will Roethlisberger be when he returns?"
Sure, there was some rust but the comfort of having a starting-caliber QB back under center was undeniable. The combination of Dennis Dixon and Charlie Batch may have been serviceable through the first three games of the season, but the contest against the Ravens in Week 4 made it achingly clear that the Steelers were in need of their franchise quarterback.
While enduring off the field controversies, the one thing that most athletes can depend on is support from their teammates & coaches. Perhaps it was the fact that his latest incident was considered to be one too many, or perhaps it was just a matter of his growing ego, but Ben’s teammates sent him a clear message during the pre-season when they did not vote him in as a team captain. That may seem like a non-issue, like no big deal, but for a franchise quarterback who has already won two Super Bowl rings not to be voted in as a team captain; well it is a pretty big deal.
That brought to light the second question for Ben this season, "Can he win back his teammates?" Nobody other than the players in the Steelers locker room can ever answer that question definitively, but it seems that Ben has gone about things the right way. Hines Ward, one player who was critical of Ben’s actions, had this to say after the season-ending blowout win over the Browns, "Ben came through adversity. He stepped up, not that he hasn’t in the past. But this season didn’t start like other seasons".
The last question that Ben still has to contend with is not one that he can answer through his play on the football field. Quite the opposite, Ben has to prove that he has learned his lesson off the field. Fans of anything, but especially sports fans, are extremely forgiving as a whole. However, just like teammates who have the power to simply not name you as a team captain, fans can send a message if they feel you’re not representing their favorite team –and them – in the proper way.
Think how different things could have been this season if, instead of receiving a warm reception from the Steelers faithful, Ben encountered a more hostile fan base. Consider the way Vince Young was booed off the field in Tennessee. Fans have a low tolerance for millionaire athletes who refuse to grow up, or at least grow up a little. To Ben’s credit, strictly from the outside looking in, it seems that he has heard the message from the NFL, the Steelers organization, his teammates, and his fans loud and clear. Time will tell, but in my opinion Ben has answered his critics & is ready to move on for good.
- JM
128 comments
|
Add comment
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Voted for the Fans...
…. only because there was no closer choice. There are many non-football fans that knew of him and were proud of what he help represent for a Pittsburgh sports team. HIs off-field issues stripped him of respect by those people. Give him another off-season year of clean living and maturity (a little public charity & a “No is No” public service campaign would not hurt) and they’ll forgive him too.
The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.
I tend to agree with a few other people here that a ‘No means No’ campaign would be an admission of guilt & that is probably the last thing he wants to do.
As a father of 3 girls, I can sympathize with both sides of everything that went down. If what was written in the police report was actually the truth… Then the man who did those things to any of my daughters would not be safe anywhere on this earth.
However, there are a lot of disputed facts & I think he should just move on without bringing any more attention to the incident.
I’m sure he’ll do his share of charitable work in the community this off-season.
by Joseph Munley on Jan 5, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Good point Joe
The Burgh - Been there, played the game, have the gameshirt.
Once from the Confluence, always from the Confluence.
by Hollywood Steel on Jan 5, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
If you think what was in the police report as bad(what happened that evening in Milledgeville), and he wouldn’t be safe in this world because of it, then I suggest you send your daughters away to become nuns, because you will have to keep them away from everybody.
Everybody?...
… I don’t know how you roll, but I don’t have my boys block a girl’s retreat so I can have my way with her. I guess I’m not like everybody
by Joseph Munley on Jan 8, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
you're makin' that up
Again, even after this much time, you still believe what you read in sports entertainment blogs? That little tidbit over ‘blocking exit’ was provided by who? Read all the reports objectively before committing to a judgment.
If it was made up, I didn’t make it up.
I’m going by the handwritten words of the victim in the case. I’m not going to argue about whether or not she was telling the truth because we’ll never know.
I’m a Roethlisberger fan, and I hope he stays on the path he’s on right now.
But…. I can tell you that if my daugher is ever grabbed by the arm, brought to an empty room, and then accosted by some dude that outweighs her by more than 100 lbs… He better be real careful about where he goes from that moment on.
That’s all I meant to say.
by Joseph Munley on Jan 9, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
it was in the police report
and the bar manager did back up her friend’s story that the her friend(s) came to him and wanted to get her out of the bathroom w/ben but was being blocked by ben’s bodyguards. otherwise why would she go to the manager for help? yes, it is possible she is a criminal mastermind (they pre-planned to take ben down) or she wanted a menage a trois but what makes the most sense is she was truly worried about her friend. this is a separate issue as to what happened w/ben and the girl in the bathroom.
everyone is sick of this story, however, it would not surprise me one bit if something more is leaked or someone else comes forward with new info. i mean someone like Julian Assange could hack into a computer and find a confidentiality agreement. if the gov’t or bofa can’t keep secrets then who can? time will tell but the internet destroys secrets and confidentiality.
read the reports
There is more to the story than what you recounted. Besides, independent corroboration is only able to confirm specific actions, not the motivation behind them. The previous poster made assumptions about why, and all other events leading up to the ‘so called’ blocked entry/exit.
there is much more to the story.....
you original statement was it was made up on the blogs, that “you’re makin’ that up.” i was just pointing out this as a false statement.
the girl’s friend said she was blocked from the bathroom and went to the manager. when questioned, he confirmed her story. ben’s bodyguards said they did not block her from the entrance. these are the facts. who and what you believe about these facts is the subjective part.
from your knowledge, it appears you didn’t read the report.
I voted Fans
Under the context of “Other teams fans”. Some out there still do not have total understanding of what he has done for this organization and his talents on the field. He needs to keep building a Hall of Fame Resume and then maybe that can appreciate the sort of player they are watching.
Iron sharpens Iron
+1
Other teams’ fans have declared him guilty and I can’t tell you how many times people have said “How could you support a team that has a rapist for a quarterback?” or something to that effect. It’ll take at least one clean off-season until people will shut their mouths about him, and very likely more.
"Roethlisbeger didn't win those Super Bowls." (Pats fan)
"Did you watch XLIII?"
"No"
"Stop talking."
by Steeler fan of MN on Jan 6, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
this will follow ben forever
people will stop talking about it but they will never forget, b/c this is his reputation. fair or unfair, how many people on here believed michael jackson was a molester? he was never convicted, right? how about ray lewis, kobe, oj? their fans stood beside them and defended them thru it all. there are many who to this day believe it was just a conspiracy against michael jackson, that it was all for the $. but as katt williams put it, f*** Michael, f*** that if people been calling you a child molester for 20 years, then you a child molester!
ben is part of the steeler family so steeler fans will defend him, like you would defend your heroine addicted brother. just like raven fans have had to defend ray lewis all these years. whether ben is truly guilty or not, only he, his accusers and God know. the only thing we can say for sure is that ben has had more s*** floating around than any other non-convicted NFL QB (or player) for that matter. since i don’t know him, i can’t defend him off the field.
if you want to complain about something totally unfair happening to an NFL player, then Vick is worth defending. Yes, Vick had an illegal dog fighting ring and yes he lied to the feds but we are talking about dogs here. Don’t get me wrong, i love dogs but let’s be real, in China they eat dogs for dinner. Compare Vick to Dante Stallworth, who driving drunk killed a person (not a dog) in Miami. He had to give up his DL for life, serve 1 mo. probation and pay off the dead guy’s family a bunch of money. He pretty much bought his way out of manslaughter and real jail time and he is back in the NFL. In my mind, if you are willing to risk driving drunk and someone dies, you should serve minimum 10 years b/c you made the choice to get behind the wheel.
so in the big scheme of things, ben has gotten off very easy and most people will forgive as long as nothing else comes up. i am pretty sure this was his last chance at least as a steeler, one more mistake and he is gone, period.
turn about is fair play
all football fans hit below the belt. i mean steeler fans still call out ray lewis murderer, bellicheat all the time, happened hundreds of times this year on this board. so how can anyone complain if people call out ben? including steeler fans.
if you want for people to leave ben alone, then we have to move on from bellicheat, ray lewis, etc. good luck getting people to agree with that.
Twelve weeks of decent football answers nothing.
I have been one of Ben’s biggest fans since he first came into the league. Right away I saw in this young man the skills and the mind set to be a great champion, and barring any career threatening injury, an eventual hall of fame athlete. There is no other QB that I would rather have leading this team in the pursuit of on the field excellence.
Off the field is another story altogether. I’m uncertain as to whether or not I would be able to sit down and have a beer with this guy. For a fact, I wouldn’t allow him within a hundred yards of one of my daughters.
I gave Ben a pass when the first allegations came out in Nevada and I still believe, given the available information, that it was actually Ben who was victimized in that first unfortunate incident. Feel free to disagree.
Concerning the events in Georgia, only Ben and the young "lady" in question know what happened that night. Whatever did transpire, a few things are obvious. Alcohol impaired the judgment of both parties, Ben Roethlisberger is no gentleman, and had there been even a shred of evidence the DA would have done everything in his power to crucify our meat headed superstar. That’s really about all we truly know.
To say that Ben has answered his critics presumes upon information that we do not possess, unless of course you know the man personally. Forgive me if I have misunderstood your post but it seems to me that you have allowed Ben’s professional prowess to color your estimation of his personal progress. The former was never in question or at least it shouldn’t have been, and the latter is a matter between Ben, his family, friends, associates and ultimately whatever higher being Ben may or may not be a believer of.
I tend to be optimistic when it comes to the subject of redemption. All appearances would have us believe that Big Ben has learned some valuable lessons over these past many trying months and that he is a changed man. I hope that’s the case. At least for now I will maintain that optimism, with caution, and on the off chance that he should come calling for one of the young ladies of my household, a loaded shotgun near the door.
by justagame on Jan 4, 2011 5:12 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
The title of the post was really in reference to all of the analysts who basically had Ben written off before the season started. In that respect his professional prowess was in question as there were more than a few of these ‘experts’ who openly wondered if the Steelers shouldn’t draft a QB to replace Ben, if Ben should be given his starting job back upon his return from the suspension, or even if the Steelers should just trade him away & move on.
I think, in that respect, Ben came out this season and put a sock in the mouths of those critics. I’m pretty sure that if those same analysts were asked the same question today (should the Steelers move ahead without Big Ben) they’d all answer very differently than they did in the preseason.
by Joseph Munley on Jan 5, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
it depends on your perspective
the rooneys were going to cut ben if he was charged by the DA and they were seriously thinking about trading him. why? he is an employee, and every employee is expendable, even the most talented. they had to weigh the tremendous investment already in ben, steeler/football fan reactions, sponsor’s opinions, the pr nightmare and whether they believed ben could stay out of trouble. if he was just an average player or easily replaceable he would have joined santonio looking for a new team. why take the risk w/o the reward?
i also believed the rooneys sat ben down and told him that he had one way to remain a steeler, pay off this girl in GA to end her cooperation and avoid a civil suit. ben would have objected as any employee lying to keep their job “but i didn’t do it!” rooneys replied, “we don’t give a f*** if you are guilty or not, pay her.” with a civil suit, other girls might come forward. maybe her friends go on oprah, who knows but it would still be in the news. rooney is a lawyer so he knows what’s up.
football fans only care about one thing how many more rings can he bring (although they might draw the line at a paroled child molester). management wants rings too but not at any cost, they have to consider reputation and other competing interests. the rooneys made a business decision (risk vs. reward) to keep ben.
so far so good, but wasn’t if favre who was called out 2 years after he sent p**** pics? how many times did holmes have to fail a drug test? oh, only 3. any little thing, even in his past could topple ben at this point and a current misstep will not be forgiven. even staunch Catholics like the Rooneys, have reached their limit to forgive.
certain personalities need to test the limits, they need action/risk, so they invite trouble and they self-destruct. mike tyson is the poster child. ben riding w/o a helmet is a clear sign that he shares some of these personality traits. the message is clear: f*** the law, my employer, my contract, my team, i can do whatever i want and f*** the consequences, it is very revealing and it is part of who he is.
with ben the risk has paid off, but this is a long-term bet and it could turn to s*** overnite. the ending to this story is yet to reveal itself, it could be a fairy tale or a disaster . either way, i am not naive enough to believe it is time to declare victory.
by kk99 on Jan 11, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You really don't know
If he deserves redemption. You assume he did something wrong.
What did he do wrong, other than participate in socially acceptable behavior? Unless you think being arrogant and egocentric as “wrong.”
exactly
damn IronJake u took the words right out of my mouth!
by the duchess of steel on Jan 8, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
My best estimate
comes from those closer to him than the fans – his teammates and the media. We can’t be sure how his teammates are feeling about him, but so far they’ve been very appreciative about his on-field performances and his locker room demeanor. It looks like the old guard has taken him back, and the young guys, like Pouncey, Wallace and Sanders, are delighted to be playing on his team.
The media is another story. By all accounts, Ben was a sullen, dismissive subject in years past (witness his bemulleted, slovenly performance in his “press conference” after his suspension was announced). This appears no longer to be true. His relations with the media throughout this year, even before his return to the field, have been respectful, informative and even warm at times. He has given them more time and been much more forthcoming in his answers, and above all has given credit to others – teammates, coaches and even opponents – when it’s due. He has been willing to discuss his very few on-field mistakes honestly.
I’d suggest that Ben was faced with changing the course of his life or losing the most important part of it, his football career. It’s happened to others, including Namath, Marino and Favre. Facing such consequences can have remarkable effects on a person.
My heros have always been Steelers...
by wozzle on Jan 4, 2011 9:33 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree with your assessment that Ben “was faced with changing the course of his life or losing the most important part of it”.
No matter who you are, you will go through a time in your life that inevitably changes the course of your life. Ben’s made some really stupid mistakes, but he seems to have taken the right mindset in dealing with everything. I’m rooting for him.
by Joseph Munley on Jan 5, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
maybe
he was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, and he is a victim of circumstance. He has responded well, though.
He has handled himself very well. Hopefully he does a better job in the future of staying away from the wrong places.
by Joseph Munley on Jan 8, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Goodell has some type of problem with Ben and the Steelers
he seems to be against the team as a whole, given harsher fines and suspensions. I think the NFLPA needs to look into it.
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
V for Vendetta
It certainly seemed like the league had a ‘Steeler Watch’ initiative throughout the season… I wrote a piece about it early in December. Read it here… Public Enemy No.92
by Joseph Munley on Jan 5, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
its shameful that the NFL would approach steelers issues like they are high treason, but other teams players getting in fist fights on national television, get a slap on the wrist. And its not just the league , but the media as well. I want to scream when I hear a radio host say that he feels sick about what Ben allegedly did or didn’t do, according to some unsubstantiated police report .
Ben in Pittsburgh
For all those who wanted to get rid of Ben at the start of the season. I hope you have all come to your sense now. We wouldn’t be where we are without him, he is a QB for the Pittsburgh Steelers organization, he is tough, strong in mind and a playmaker who can play well in bad weather. Plus he is s winner…enough said!!! I miss Tone but we have people to replace him, we couldn’t have replaced Ben.
by ColinP on Jan 4, 2011 10:14 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
voted teammates
Good poast
First of all, i think most in stiller nation are sold on big ben, your poast re-affirms that.
I dont really give two shits about what another team’s fan thinks about Ben. Because frankly that doesn’t matter to me a whole lot. He has his support from his fans.
To me there probably was lasting damage done in the locker room, and I think Ben has done a hell of a lot of work to prove to his teammates that hes serious, hard working, dependable, etc…
To me though, you have guys that are to smart to be won over by one season. Guys like Ward and Farrior who’ve seen it all. So I dont expect Ben to suddenly be their god now. (thats Redman)
He definitely showed grit and durability this year and that goes a long way in peoples minds and hearts, but really we’ll know after this offseason. What happens between February and August. And will he be voted captain.
+1
They held the fort while he was away, ensuring he wouldn’t be joining a sinking ship; let him shake the rust away. And now, all that’s left is for him to contribute, with them, to bringing Lucky Number Sleven back home.
"I am a sinner who does not expect forgiveness, but [Thank God] I am not a government official" Francis Wolcott in "Deadwood", Season 2
by Flying Polamalus on Jan 4, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
He's answered his critics on the field
Off the field is a whole different story.
We don’t know if Ben has really changed as a person yet. I’ll take the “wait and see” approach with him.
"Don't Call It A Comeback"
The wait & see approach is the only approach. Hopefully Ben realizes that he’s not your average 20-something with cash to spend & no worries. He’s got to understand that he’ll have a massive target on his back for the rest of his career.
by Joseph Munley on Jan 4, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
I voted Fans
From my outside perspective, Ben has proved himself to his teammates. For the sake of the organization, that was/is the most important. There is always be fans who think negatively towards Ben regarding the allegations.
Watching the games, last season, Ben and Hines were clearly not getting along. They didn’t talk to each other on the field or on the sidelines. Hines wasn’t smiling. Obviously, the team knew about the coming allegations and were not too happy about it.
Ben, apparently, used to be a real a**hole to his teammates. From what I have heard and from what I have read, Ben is now a different, better teammate. Just watching Hines and Ben interact during the games, this season, you can see a difference. They talk all the time. Hines is smiling all the time. They believe in each other.
Of all the QB in the league, Big Ben is the only QB I want leading the Steelers. With the team gelling, as the are, it’s going to be one heck of a run to the Super Bowl.
Just read the first line, then comment.
by LuvMLB on Jan 4, 2011 12:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
There has definitely been a marked difference in team chemistry this season… And it seems like everyone is healthy, gelling & ready to make another run at a ring.
by Joseph Munley on Jan 4, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody
Ben is a man, and as such I don’t feel that any man has any need to prove himself to anyone else, man, beast or god.
That being said, I used to curse the man up and down. His antics off the field cost this team too much, and caused me, as one of the few Steelers fans in my circle of friends, incessant ridicule. Boohoohoo, I know, but when some scum-sucking Dallas groupie starts opening his yap about my QB and all I can respond with is “Yeah, well Jessica Simpson isn’t going to age well, so Romo can %^$@ himself!”, it makes for a bad day.
I took a deep breath at the beginning of this year and decided to give the man another chance. I still had to suffer the slings and arrows of my friends (fans of upstanding teams such as the Chicago Ditkas and New England Favorites), but I was willing to deal with it, because I thought I detected a change. Come the end of the season, it’s becoming clear to me that given this opportunity, Ben has chosen to make the effort to grow into the role model…uh, role…and is surrounded by people (Ward, Tomlin, Polamalu, the Rooneys, Goodell, etc etc) who can help him along the way. It’s not an overnight thing, and it’s not easy. I’m about the same age as Ben, and I haven’t exactly been a model citizen myself – I can’t imagine how, given money, fame, and athletic ability like he has, I may have surpassed his track record for retarded ish. As it stands, all I got was good looks, so my ability to cause damge was a bit more limited, hahaha.
What I’m trying to say is, if you want someone to get better, you have to believe that they can. Nobody is going to improve if nobody shows them that they believe they can, and if you have your eyes closed to it you’re not going to see it happen. Ben still has strides to make, but from what I’ve seen, he’s well on his way to earning peoples faith back.
PS – A No means No campaign would just add credulity to that shoeprint-faced trollop from Georgia and prolong the stigma, despite the intentions.
PPS – Seriously, have you seen this chick? Nobody’s assaulting her. She looks like Seabiscuit and Quasimoto had a baby. Like a Girls Gone Wildly Wrong video. I’ve seen better looking skidmarks is all I’m getting at, here.
I thought jokes were supposed to be funny? This one was an epic fail.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
Fail is not a noun, and epic doesn’t mean anything like the way you used it. Off topic, I know, but it’s something that drives me nuts.
So I guess unless I’m a regular here, caustic or dark humor isn’t welcome? Making fun of Tom Bradys looks (his haircut counts, I’m pretty sure) is cool, but when someone accuses our franchise QB of a crime without any evidence to back it up, poking fun at the way she looks isn’t?
Forgive me if I’m not understanding the dynamics here in my first month. Is it that I took it too far for your tastes? Is it that you’re not familiar with ascerbic people and so my language and demeanor were insulting? I suppose it could just be that I’m not funny, but I doubt that people just tell me that to appease me.
As I mentioned in my post, I’m pretty far from perfect/innocent/what have you, but I certainly didn’t think this was out of line. I’m not on the field, and I don’t think I’m out of line expressing my opinion on the matter – but correct me if I’m wrong. This seems like a pretty classy place, and I’d hate to be the one to come in and make all of us look bad.
I'm pretty sure it was an epic fail
and I don’t care how you want to define it. Definitely an epic fail.
That's easy
The most salient point is that it was insulting. What you call acerbic humor or wit… isn’t wit at all.
It doesn’t matter what the chick looks like. Your “joke” was in poor taste and therefore, was not well received.
To have to explain “WHY” tells me that you don’t get it, and possibly never will.
One of the great disappointments of a football game is that the cheerleaders never seem to get injured.
I am female
And my signature stands. It was a football quote I found from someone and I found it funny.
One of the great disappointments of a football game is that the cheerleaders never seem to get injured.
I wouldn’t presume to so much as consider asking you to do anything with it.
I just find it funny that you’re telling me that what I said was insulting when you find a comment (obviously jokingly) mocking violence against females.
Whether you’re a woman or not doesn’t matter to me. My intent wasn’t to insult anyone, except possibly the party specifically mentioned, and I don’t really understand how it could be construed as personally insulting to anyone else. Crass, sure, I’m used to that. But insulting I don’t ever intend to be.
I'm truly amazed
at what people find offensive these days anyway…I mean words on a MB from a complete stranger regarding someone that you or anyone else on this board have never even met…so u did not think she was attractive and u stated that in your own way to make a point…okay I did not think she was attractive either….Ben clearly had the beer goggles on that night I think.
by the duchess of steel on Jan 7, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t make the rules, and I normally don’t follow them either…but I’ve already stated my intent to do so here, so I’m gonna play nice.
so far
I can agree with everything you’ve said, and how you’ve said it. You have a good grasp of internet communication(and writing in general)
I’ve been known to be ornery as well, but the ‘joke’ however, wasn’t really funny – but everybody’s sense of humor is different.
To each his own
One of the great disappointments of a football game is that the cheerleaders never seem to get injured.
He doesn't know DC ladies are crazy huh?
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
He's just deflecting
I can live with it. It’s like when Rodney Dangerfield says “Take my wife, please.” You just don’t take it seriously, any more than someone should take my signature to mean I advocate violence against women. That’s reaching, at best.
One of the great disappointments of a football game is that the cheerleaders never seem to get injured.
Yeah
part of my statement was a reflection of your signature. :) And I know you don’t take me seriously, because if you did….. I know you DC women. I graduated High School from around there. I would rather fight a dude than a DC chick. lol
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Oh and along those same lines
I was thinking about some of the poasts and comments I have put out. I’m asking this because I know you’ll be honest with me. :) Do I give the idea that I am a “womanizer” or “sexist”?
I’m asking because I’m far from it. I also realize that I may be posting pictures (not as bad a Slash though…sorry Slash doh!) that some could taken as exploiting women (sort of speak).
I don’t think I’m wording this the way I want to, but……
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
I know what you are asking
I do not think badly of you based on your poasts (or posts, depending if you are serious or just having fun). There are more pics of ladies than I would like, but it’s just because I can’t relate. It does not mean I am offended. I just scroll through and move on.
One of the great disappointments of a football game is that the cheerleaders never seem to get injured.
Well
I guess what I’m trying to say is, for the most part I don’t care what people think about me unless it’s something I’m projecting that is not really me. And I am not a womanizer and I don’t cheat on my wife (that was in my distant past) and I don’t lust after or chase skirts. I’m really candid about my past. It’s mostly because it’s just that, ThePast.
You might find this funny, but I have a line when it comes to humor and I think I cross it a lot on here. That’s something I’m working on. I got the big things fixed.
I think being able to love people even when they aren’t lovable is a good start.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
that is what I call rambling
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Here’s the deal 25cents: You may have read this blog for months before opting in and that’s awesome. I hope you enjoy your experiences here and are a frequent poster. (you can form a complete sentence and that most certainly is a plus.) On this I’ll gladly say “Welcome!”…. Now…. let’s address the matter above:
Caustic humor/dark humor is most definitely welcome here and used frequently. (meet worldtrip and klompus) I don’t believe the “joke” fit that category. I’m a female also (there’s a surprise, huh) and yes, I found your comment to be in pretty poor taste.
Throughout this whole Ben ordeal there were only 2 things we knew for sure: There was a young man and young woman whose lives would never be the same. I’m not going to get into the “he said; she said” thing because it doesn’t matter. What she looks like doesn’t matter either. She’s a human being that was tossed into a lions den along with an NFL QB that draws a lot of press. If Ben were anyone else…. it probably wouldn’t have even made the local newspaper. Right, wrong or indifferent…. she’s paying a big price, too. Show a little compassion: She’s not Tom Brady.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
Looks like I’ll have to do a little research to feel out the boundaries.
I apologize for making a scene, and thanks for explaining things so clearly. I’m none too bright from time to time when it comes to people and emotions, so laying it out like that helped me quite a bit. I’m not normally one to care terrible much what happens to people I don’t know, but I’ll try to keep my more aggressive comments to myself.
I'm female
and I was not offended…go figure!!!
by the duchess of steel on Jan 6, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
It's because
you’re a dutchess
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
I'm female,
and I was. People do stupid things when they hang out for long hours in bars with people they don’t know. Therefore, I’m not a fan of that. I have no idea whether this young woman had more in mind than an idle flirtation with someone famous. Whatever the case may be, whatever actually happened, I find nothing about the situation to be funny. I don’t like it when people joke about the Ben side of it either. I find comments on the physical attractions/endowments/what have you of either party to be even less funny.
I’m sorry you got jumped on your first time out on BTSC. I look forward to hearing more from you – just not about Milledgeville. Which I think most of us are heartily sick of by now…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 7, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not the first time I took the first punch to the chops. Besides, like I said, I’m not here to try and rile anyone up – Steeler Nation is near and dear, so I’ll be sticking around and hopefully the content of my posts will stray a bit from touchy subjects.
I am pretty aggressive, though. Hopefully I can be taken with a grain of salt.
I'm sensitive to these things
a lot more than many women. My career has landed me in too many boardrooms where my ideas and comments aren’t taken serious until a man repeats them. It’s a male dominated world and it is exhibited all the freakin time. Most women have no idea how much or how subservient they really are. I have learned to navigate the world as it is.
I’m not one to cry foul all the time or even take offense when Arn posts another picture of some random cheerleader. Maybe the PPS pushed it over the limit for me. I feel a lot like momma rollett on the subject and I don’t find anything funny about the situation. I don’t find it funny when people degrade anyone’s looks. Too many people are judged by their looks and not their skills or more importantly by the content of their character.
I didn’t mean this to be a “punch to the chops” so if it felt like that I apologize for my part in it. When I see something that goes over the limit for me, I have no qualms about pointing it out.
I’m a diehard Steeler fan and don’t want this board to feel offensive to anyone, so welcome to BTSC. One thing that I find from people in Pittsburgh is that they can call you an ass one minute and buy you a beer the next. I wish Norcal people could be more like that, but we are all smug rich liberals out here. ;-)
I’m over it and the next beer is on me.
or even take offense when Arn posts another picture of some random cheerleader.
Now that’s the feedback I wanted. I’ll reevaluate that.
One reason is, that came after the paragraph with the is in it
my ideas and comments aren’t taken serious until a man repeats them.And I am in no way one of those guys. My preference is to not even be mentioned in this type of conversation. Thanks.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
excuse my typing
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Too many people are judged by their looks and not their skills or more importantly by the content of their character.
Like say….a president? lol
"I hated putting on that purple uniform, and I hated that raven bird. What really ticked me off is when we played Pittsburgh our whole stadium seemed to be filled with Pittsburgh fans." - Orlando Brown
by Tap That Pass on Jan 7, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
lol
wow
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
What offends me is
when a person accuses someone of rape to the authorities and then backs out of the accusation…..once the police report has been taken it CANNOT and NEVER WILL be taken back…that to me is VERY offensive….funny how I almost never see that discussed anywhere.
by the duchess of steel on Jan 7, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
but in Ben’s case the girl never recanted, she declined to cooperate. i suspect many women who are raped do not want to go into court and relive it. total fraud like the charges against Duke Lacross team are very, very rare. in cases like that the accuser should go to jail.
there are many possibilites why she did not go forward such as she was paid off, she did not want to have Ben’s defense crawl up her a**, or she could have been lying.
very soon after she hired counsel, she decided not to go foward. my personal opinion is that she was paid off, it just makes sense. any decent atty would have counseled her on how public and difficult a trial would be. ben’s and kobe’s cases have a lot of similarities and it is almost guaranteed that kobe paid that girl off. the case against ben was much weaker (kobe they had dna and blood) but in both cases the accuser decided not to go forward at the critical junture. just my opinion.
my point is
once the genie is out of the bottle u cannot put him back in
by the duchess of steel on Jan 8, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
yes
this is one of the risks of a free society, you have the right to your day in court. you can accuse anyone of anything and that person has the right to defend themself in court.
if we truly want to stop fraudulent rape accusers (Tawana Brawley and the Duke Strippers are 2 examples), then we have to totally change our society and legal system. for example, we could make the penalty for a false rape accusation 25 years, no parole. but in order to keep it in line with other penalties, rape of a minor would be death penalty and straight rape would be life, no parole.
In China, you are guilty until proven innocent, this is one sure way to reduce crime. our system is about as good as it gets, no system is truly fair. we are willing to live with higher crime (or potential crime) to maintain our freedom.
the tragedy in AZ this weekend is a perfect example.
1. we are ok w/ automatic handguns with a 31 round clip, he had 4.
2. the guy had threatened to kill someone else recently but he has rights so there was not much anyone could do to prevent this.
3. if he was politcally motivated then it is a by product of our free speech and politics.
4. but the saddest thing is the 9 year old girl who was interested in politics. she is a very unfortunate victim of our freedom but even her father said so much thru his tears.
yes, some people are wrongly accused (the genie gets out of the bottle) and they may suffer but like the 9 year old girl, they too are unfortunate victims of our freedom. is it fair? of course not, but what is the alternative?
by kk99 on Jan 10, 2011 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yes duchess
I’ve never been sexually assaulted, but if it indeed happened, my personality would take it down to the wire, even with all the scrutiny.
I’d want to impose the stiffest penalty (uh, excuse the pun) if he were in fact guilty. I have a feeling she just went along with the group, and that’s why she can’t put the genie back in the bottle. She would face charges if she recanted.
a different perspective
I think most people think they would take it to the bitter end but when it really happens it’s not so cut and dry. When your attorney informs you that the defense is going to dig into every sexual experience you ever had then your mind starts racing ("even the menage a trois four years ago in college?" "what about that failed a*** attempt with my ex?"). the defense will use anything they can to make you look like a gold digger or slut and this is the reason it is so easy to pay victims off. This girl deserves respect, especially from women. I can’t believe that more women don’t defend her. it seems more men than women defend her but, unfortunately, silence from women perpetuates rape. who knows, maybe this high profile event helps prevent someone’s daughter here from getting raped. this is just an average college girl, she never recanted and had no way to go to criminal court b/c the DA dropped it. She is just a girl (like your sister) who had the balls to come forward and be heard. she may be a steelers lucky charm but we are too stupid to see it. hell, she could have done ben a huge favor, had she not come forward, maybe ben tests the waters again and goes away for 15 hard. maybe we should be thanking her, not calling her skidmark and quasimoto’s spawn.
let’s be honest, most women would have not approached the police immediately they go home to cry and think about it. then the doubt and fear set in and too much times goes by.
i would bet everything i own that she was paid off and possibly her friends too. And if she was paid, she deserved every penny, even if ben thought he did nothing wrong. obviously if she was raped, she deserved the money. but if you are the aggressor and your partner is very drunk how do you really know you have legal consent? boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife already know, but someone you just met? if she is not willing to be the aggressor then you have to move on. Just like driving drunk, if you get behind the wheel and you kill another driver even if they are also drunk, doesn’t matter, you are guilty. There is no fairer way.
my wife told me she was raped in college before i knew her, i was the only person she ever told. had a Tony Soprano dream, where i found the prick and used the garotte.
the only celebrity of our generation that i can remember serving time for rape was Iron Mike Tyson. You can’t tell me with a straight face that there was only one rape in the last 30-40 years committed by a celebrity. really? we must be living in nirvana, who knew.
I read the police report
did u? Common sense says no semen no rape…oh wait I guess Ben paid off the hospital that performed the rape kit and the lab as well and the cops and the girl and her friends and ghee who else….really…the girl was asked twice by the cops if he was raped and she said “NO” both times…HELLO…she also said she had sex with Ben while sitting on a toilet…how the heck does THAT happen…bottom line in my opinion is that u have an issue with Ben for whatever reason…and I think u need to resolve that on your own and not here. Yes I am female..so what…doesn’t mean that I can’t recognize a false accusation when I see one….this just makes it that much harder for REAL rape victims to be taken seriously.
by the duchess of steel on Jan 13, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
her statements are pretty clear
3/4/2010 policeman typed “i was approached by complainant in front of Buffingtons, she advised me that while in Capitol City, she was sexually assaulted or manipulated by the subject.”
3/4/2010 drunken scribble “i don’t know if this is a good idea” and he said “it’s ok and he had sex w/ me..”
3/5/2010 next day handwritten “i said no, this is not ok, and he then had sex with me. He said it was ok.”
if she told 2 other cops NO i wasn’t raped, maybe she thought is was assault. maybe she heard the question wrong, or the police heard it wrong. i would give much more credence to the written statement.
i am not disagreeing with you, her story is far from perfect. maybe she was too drunk. maybe she is lying. maybe she remembers part and is filling in what she thought happened in other places. again anything is possible.
i never said you should believe everything she or her girlfriends say. nor would i believe everything ben or his entourage say. the whole truth is far from our grasp.
this is why i believe all rape accusers deserve the utmost respect. by villifying these women, you make it less likely for others to come forward. if you later find out she i was lying, then call her a skidmark, quasimoto’s spawn, post her pic and go at it. she would then deserve to be ridiculed.
BUT until i know better i won’t judge her or ben b/c there is no way to really know what happened. the guy thinks the girl is consenting and the girl believes she is not, both can be right and both can be wrong, or something in between. it is a very gray area, these date rape cases are almost never black and white.
+6 or 4 with good behaviour
Well said. In fact, that was so well said they need to make this green along with a statement to all BTSC’ers that from henceforth, any post pertaining to or eluding to Ben’s charges will be insta-deleted and the perp suspended from posting!
And a $75k fine too.
"I hated putting on that purple uniform, and I hated that raven bird. What really ticked me off is when we played Pittsburgh our whole stadium seemed to be filled with Pittsburgh fans." - Orlando Brown
by Tap That Pass on Jan 13, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Goodell is that you?
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
either Goodell or
the guy has a sister who works in a Hotel in Lake Tahoe or she’s a college student in GA…I mean I’m just saying…LOL!!!
by the duchess of steel on Jan 14, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Shhhh
you’ll blow my cover
"I hated putting on that purple uniform, and I hated that raven bird. What really ticked me off is when we played Pittsburgh our whole stadium seemed to be filled with Pittsburgh fans." - Orlando Brown
by Tap That Pass on Jan 14, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
too late
consider yourself “blown” by a Duchess
by the duchess of steel on Jan 14, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Hey...
that doesn’t sound so bad!
"I hated putting on that purple uniform, and I hated that raven bird. What really ticked me off is when we played Pittsburgh our whole stadium seemed to be filled with Pittsburgh fans." - Orlando Brown
by Tap That Pass on Jan 14, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
doh!
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Jan 14, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
But it's ok
To drag Ben through the mud. Leave her alone, not even for a silly comment about her looks(as though Ben hasn’t had his share), but make no objection to post entry’s detailing Ben’s “Redemption” and how he is a new man. Gee, that’s really objective. Especially since most of what you’ve quoted is the accusers’ side, nothing from the other. You’re talking out of two sides of your mouth.
take your own advice, cause most of this thread you’ve pretty much outlined : Ben guilty of some kind of assault, or setting it up at the very least, and then he paid her off. .
payoff does not mean guilt.
i was respoinding to the duchess about the girl saying “NO” to some cop twice. if ben gave a stmt to the police let me know and i will post that too.
yes, i am taking both sides b/c i see both sides. unless this girl was crouching or standing on the toilet it is hard to imagine how rape was possible. i would be even more skeptical if she was wearing jeans (getting a real drunk girls tight jeans off is a nightmare standing up) , from what i can tell it was a dress. and usually you get DNA, so where is it? on the other hand, she went to the police immediately. why would her or her friends be so upset with a hookup? from what i can tell they were experienced in the game. they had DTF hats on and they were probably looking for hookups that night. so why get upset, especially if you achieve your goal with a football star? maybe ben was set up? maybe she was upset with unprotected sex? maybe she had second thoughts? maybe she is telling the truth? maybe she is a criminal mastermind who had planned to take down the first pro QB to visit Miledgeville, GA? i could argue every side with equal vigor.
as to the payoff issue, maybe i could have said i believed that a confidentiality agreement was reached or that ben would be stupid not to go for one. this would be more PC and make people feel better, it sounds better than payoff.
in my mind, a payoff in this situation has nothing to do with guilt or innocence, it is just smart business and your attorney will demand it. your attorney will remind you that if you have 2 civil cases, the accusers could depose each other, now even the reno girl might start to look credible.
a confidentiality agreement is like saying we both agree to disagree and not discuss it any more. if you don’t want the money, great, let’s donate it to charity or we pay your legal fees. maybe this girl paid ben, but either way i feel some type of agreement is in place.
this does not put me against ben, i believe almost all rich celebrities or businessmen faced with a/ similar situation would seek out a confidentiality agreement.
you can hang me in effigy for being wrong if this girl does a magazine article or ben talks about it on letterman. this would be legitimate proof i am full of s*** and i will admit to being wrong on the confidentiality. what is the saying, opinions are like a**holes everyone has one.
Oh Momma!
I’m sorry but I have to disagree. Humor helps everybody deal with difficult situations, and sometimes it sheds light on other things that are otherwise ignored – which can be very pertinent to moving forward and learning about things and ourselves.
I have spent long hours at bars with people I don’t know and have NOT done stupid things(unless you are opposed to alcohol and drinking, even to excess). You can in fact have a good time. You might not be comfortable in situations like that, but it doesn’t mean everybody who does it is either stupid or does stupid things.
Jake, I didn't mean to imply
that everybody that hangs out for long hours at bars with strangers is going to do something stupid, so I’m sorry if I implied that. It does often happen, though, and I’m perhaps more sensitive to this than some people, as a young woman (not my family, but very dear to me) was in a bar, had a date rape drug slipped to her, and was raped. She doesn’t hang out in bars anymore. I’m not opposed to drinking, and I drink myself from time to time. I do find it mystifying that people would prefer to spend most of their disposable income on something that makes them feel like crap the next morning, but it’s not my call.
As to the thoughts about humor, yes, I take your point. The right sort of humor can indeed help people to deal with things. So I guess we’re back to whether it is funny to denigrate the looks of someone who is a) a victim of sexual assault, b) a money-grubbing opportunist, or c) someone who paid for foolish behavior by being subjected to an experience she didn’t enjoy, but which fell short of sexual assault. (Those, as far as I can tell, are the 3 options, unless you want to add a conspiracy by some of her sorority sisters to which she was not privy.) In none of those three cases were the remarks about her physical attractiveness funny, at least to me.
You can argue about whether they were warranted in case b), I suppose, but I wouldn’t say they were. However, I am one of those people who don’t find remarks about Ray Lewis being a murderer or Bill Belichick being a cheater funny either, so perhaps my sense of humor is lacking. Nobody who knows me, however, has mentioned that to me. Which may just mean that I’m bitchy and intimidating as well. “O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us!” Appropriately enough, the poem from which that quote is taken is Robert Burns’ “To a Louse”. I believe he means of the insect variety…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 11, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t presume to know a thing about you, but here’s my take on the humor thing.
The only person in the world who has a bad sense of humor is the person who can’t laugh at themselves. Now, you may be a bit (or a lot) more conservative than I am, and you may find different topics funny than I do, but that doesn’t mean you lack a sense of humor. I’ve never met anyone without a sense of humor, and the only person I can think of who makes a good case for not having one altogether is Joe ‘monotone’ Flacco.
So you didn’t find what I said funny – hell, my parents probably wouldn’t either. Most of the people I associate with would though. Nobody’s better or worse for having their opinion on it.
I posit that if you thought about it some more, you’d come up with a few more options about the girl. At any rate, all of them sound like extremes, and fail to lay a bit of guilt on her, and based on the reports(of which I have read ALL, in detail, and tried to be as objective as possible) I can’t say either way. They both were at the bar. It is what it is, and there is no way to verify either claim. This is the part I have a problem with – people thinking they know, or make assumptions based on their biased morality.
Regardless, I’m not about to presume over your sense of humor or lack thereof.
Please, take no offense at my comments. I just like good repartee and thoughtful discussion.
Be careful
Our girls here don’t play
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Himself
He has to answer to himself.
Bill Beeelichick proved that in America it’s okay to cheat, as long as you cheat your way to the top. – Eric Cartman
by Alba on Jan 4, 2011 3:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If my daughters were still single,
I would trust their judgment as to whether Ben was a suitable person to date, given what we’ve seen this fall. Only Ben really knows at this point whether he’s truly changed or not, but the initial signs are heartening. One of the big signs along the way is the fact that the local press gave him the Chief award. It’s hard to pretend to be something you’re not, week after week, to a press corps who is asking annoying and embarrassing questions, and apparently he went above and beyond the call of duty.
Ben made a statement in an interview this fall that the events in Georgia had more or less awakened him to where he was heading, and that he had taken the opportunity to return to the way he was raised to be. You can see it on his face. His smiles look like he’s genuinely happy behind them now. I’m plenty cynical about people in general, but I also believe in the possibility of redemption, and I believe that Ben took the opportunity presented to him to turn his life around. In the end it seems to have made him a better teammate and player as well as a better person. I don’t believe that you can completely divorce your on-field self from your off-field self, at least if you’re raised and constituted like he is. If Ben can stay the course, he will eventually silence his critics. If he doesn’t, well, no reason his critics should shut up.
And finally, please, no “No means No” campaigns. There are a billion other women-friendly causes he could espouse without that. Vick was a proven, convicted offender. Ben isn’t. Such a campaign is tantamount to an admission of guilt, and I for one am still willing to believe that although he was clearly guilty of gross stupidity, it’s entirely possible that it didn’t go farther than that.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 4, 2011 6:28 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
It is possible
That his whole demeanor is presented as a tactic to counter his persona as an arrogant, egocentric dolt. Do you think that maybe his agent hired public relation experts to improve his image? Coached him in dealing with the press? The guy is smart (he is after all, a superbowl winning QB) so it doesn’t surprise me that he’s doing all the right things, regardless of his actual or perceived guilt.
You have a very good point. That’s why I think time will tell, ultimately. Most people do shape up for a while after they get in trouble. It’s what they continue to do that defines them.
by Joseph Munley on Jan 8, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
Note that I said
“If Ben can stay the course.” Should the Steelers win the Super Bowl, it will be a huge test of the genuineness of his change, as once again he will get cut a lot of slack for being good at something. If he can stick with it then, that will argue that there was a genuine change. But again, only time will tell.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 11, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Frankly
I think the media didn’t like Ben because of their own self importance. He probably ignored them, and let the rings get to his head. That’s why he treated people around him as objects. Fine. That makes him a dick, not a rapist or morally corrupt. This was just a way for the press and ownership to get back at him, and they did- with a vengeance.
Simply because he talks to the media and plays nice in the sandbox doesn’t mean he was either a)an abuser, who targeted women for illegal and morally corrupt behavior b)an egocentric arrogant jock who got a big head or c)a normal person who is doing the best he can under the circumstances and now has “seen the light” and is “enlightened” to sound morality, or the niceness of a fairy tale prince – regardless of the time frame.
I don’t think winning the super bowl or getting their will have an affect on how he is treated. I do believe however, that he’ll be back in the good graces of the media, and will again appear in commercials and pregame highlights just like Mike Vick unless he goes down a road that has been determined to be off limits to him as a superstar football player.
I just glad he’s going to be able to get on with his life again. This was torment that was written all over his face everytime a camera was shoved in it.
I’m behind him 110% and I hope he continues to be satisfied with himself.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
by 1BlkGldFan on Jan 4, 2011 7:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Although I voted Nobody, I still believe he has to prove himself to his fans based on my daughter’s sentiments. She is a college student and she thinks Ben did something very bad. She was also in favor of not having him return to the team and that we’d be fine without him.
Since the Steelers have the largest female fan base, I think there are many other women who feel the same way my daughter does. Ben will still have to prove himself to fans like her.
One of the great disappointments of a football game is that the cheerleaders never seem to get injured.
And your daughter is basing her judgment on what, exactly? Maybe she just doesn’t like the type of people who drink vodka shots, or like to hang out with scantily clad women who swoon over celebrity, or hang out in clubs and get drunk on somebody else’s nickel?
As long as the fans who buy tickets and merchandise approve and keep doing so, then all is fine for the steelers and the NFL.
I don't know what her judgment is based on
I am just relaying what she said. And I suspect there are others out there that feel as she does.
One of the great disappointments of a football game is that the cheerleaders never seem to get injured.
In all fairness
maybe she has friends that were victims of sexual assault. There is a lot of that going on in college. (surprise) I think she may have a legit point based on what she feels (which I don’t know). I never wanted him to be cut because I think he deserves a chance to make smarter decisions. I also think that the Rooneys know Ben better than I and they made the decision. Whether it was a money decision or star service decision doesn’t matter to me. I’m giving him a chance because the Rooneys felt he deserved it. If anyone else feels different, I’m sure they have good reason to feel that way and my opinion is no higher than theirs. My wife thinks they should have got rid of him. I disagree. Funny thing. We disagree on whether Ben should have been gone but we both don’t care too much for the LIFESTYLE you mentioned.
drink vodka shots, or like to hang out with scantily clad women who swoon over celebrity, or hang out in clubs and get drunk on somebody else’s nickel
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
pretty much
Because they don’t know Ben
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Jan 11, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
But what I don’t get is in judging that lifestyle, they make assumptions that he did something morally wrong. This country is becoming increasingly divided, so it doesn’t surprise me that they throw out the baby with the bathwater – that is to say, that if you do these things, then you are morally corrupt and probably did something wrong, which is not necessarily correct, based on the facts.
People like being right.
I'm not a relativist in the big things -
in other words, I think that there are things that are wrong for everyone, like, say, murder. Essentially everyone would agree with that statement, especially if the gun was being held to their own head. But in the lesser things – like whether it is okay to hang out with scantily clad women et al, people draw the line at very different places, and as long as the behavior is legal, that’s everyone’s prerogative. It’s easier to point one’s finger at the speck in someone else’s eye and all that, though, and people love condemning behavior to which they do not subscribe, even (and sometimes especially) if they do it themselves against their beliefs.
But that’s the cost of a free society – a wide variety of behaviors, some of which are bound to be offensive to some portion of the population, are tolerated because the good of freedom is considered a greater good than the harm that might be generated by the behavior. (One of the behaviors that a free society has to tolerate, BTW, is the right to be judgmental. It may be unattractive, but it is another ‘right,’ if you will, unless it spills over into illegal behavior.) The alternative to an open society is to allow a subset of the population to determine the outward behavior of the rest.
People who have lived in a free society generally aren’t terribly keen on that, even if they were to agree with some or all of the tenets of the would-be dictators. Therefore the arguments against behaviors that have traditionally been illegal or discouraged are being re-examined in utilitarian terms. The drug issue, for example, is being discussed in increasingly pragmatic terms – in other words, does prohibition create greater evils than the evils that it is designed to prevent? Always a tough calculation, and one that can ultimately only be determined in terms of the public cost.
So back to the lifestyle question, how great is the public cost of the “scantily clad women” lifestyle? It probably cost the DA’s office in Georgia a fair amount of money to investigate the Ben situation, but that’s what they are there for. Presumably the number of such vodka-swilling evenings that end up having to be investigated are fairly low, leaving us with an acceptable level of public cost. (And by cost I mean both monetary and societal.)
But is there a private cost to such behavior? That would be pretty tough to calculate on a large scale, but I would presume that it varies according to a) the psychology of the individuals involved and b) the outcomes. It’s hard for me to see that there is a benefit to society by this behavior, but I would say that there would be a definite harm to society in prohibiting it, and therefore I am opposed to such prohibitions. I don’t thereby give up my right to consider such behavior unwise.
I would personally prefer that people who engage in such behavior on a regular basis had better things to do with their time and money, and better objects for their adulation than random celebrities. But it isn’t my call.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 11, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
In a perfect world, people wouldn’t be assholes to eachother, but this isn’t even close to a perfect world. As it stands, ignoring the rules that society puts in front of me is the only way that I can personally enjoy my own life – not to the detriment of others, mind you. And, sadly, most people (including myself) don’t have a key ingredient in the personality type that makes constructive behavior its own fun.
I didn’t get a golden lamp for christmas this year, sorry y’all.
I’m not really sure I understand what your point is through all of that, but in the end, we all agree that freedom is better than none, right? Either way, reading between the lines, I get the feeling that you believe drinking in bars and having scantily clad cohorts is not your bag, and you imply that those that do engage in this behavior are wasting their time, and are contributing to the bad part of society that the rest “tolerate.” I guess because you have a different definition of using your time wisely, or being productive.
Not sure I agree with that. Sometimes people fail to recognize the big picture or allow morality and judgment to influence or cloud objectivity about the public good and progress of humanity, or what life is about for that matter. There are no absolutes or black and white, and we live in a world of gray, right up to the minutest detail. Even murder can be justified – it’s how we deal with those conflicts that makes us who we are, and if we are able to get through it without unnecessary conflict and damage. The path of least resistance. Most that stand on the right of center and conservatism usually fail at this and see everything in black or white terms that affects or challenges their world view or upbringing.
Drawing a line in the sand, or even to be absolutist about certain behavior is coming dangerously close to limited freedoms.
Who is going to determine what is fair and what is not?
this has nothing to do with lifestyle
ben may be guilty of rape and he may be totally innocent. he may have even done it and doesn’t believe he did, this is what kobe said in his apology. consent is a very gray area, especially when drugs or alcohol are added to the mix. based on the circumstances, ben probably paid this girl off, even if he believed he did nothing wrong, this is my guess. notice there has not been a peep out of this girl or her friends since she hired an atty and no civil suit.
kobe went thru the same thing but he only had one accusation and he settled with the girl. in ben’s case there are more open ends and this was the 2nd public accusation, this is the reason for continued scrutiny.
BUT saying this is a lifestyle issue, is just B.S. date rape is a very common thing that happens all the time. clubs, alcohol and scantily clad women add to the risk but they are not the cause.
it is very possilbe for powerful people, especially musicians and athletes, to believe that someone “wants it” or is “asking for it” even if they are not. so when a woman says no to them, they may not believe it b/c they think “all woman want me, i am a super star!” not all stars are like this but many are very insecure and immature b/c they have been pampered their whole lives.
ben is going thru similar scrutiny as vick. if you are a hardcore dog lover, you may still hate vick and believe he should be in jail. vick is still getting much more crap than ben b/c he was convicted, some reporter said he should be executed.
if peyton or brady had 2 rape incidents, they would be going thru the same s***. this is life and it is the price of admission for being famous. but to blame lifestyle, is like blaming guns for killing all those innocent people in AZ. guns make it easier to kill, but they are not the cause.
again
You don’t know if he paid her off, or something else.
Keep hypothesizing. But while you do that, keep in mind that continuing the “guilt, redemtion” thing alive propagates the imposed morality.
what?
my opinion is that she was paid off and everything on this board is a hypothesis or opinion, it’s a free country right? isn’t there free speech here too?
her being paid does not prove ben is guilty of rape or bad morals. maybe the rooneys told him to settle with this girl to stop this mess in its tracks. this could have been a straight up business decision, 2 ongoing civil cases is unacceptable.
both ben and this girl may be right from their own perspective. this is very similar to the kobe case where both agreed sex was consensual until it turned to anal. at this point, kobe was still thinking consent while the girl claimed rape. so kobe paid her and apologized that he was sorry he did not get clearer consent.
right or wrong, guilty or not, this was a PR nightmare for the steelers. this is the reason you pay to shut everyone up and this means you will never see the girl or ben on oprah discussing any of this.
maybe someone will leak some info and i turn out to be wrong, won’t be the first time. maybe a copy of a confidentiality agreement falls into the hands of wikileaks, then i will be right, won’t be the first time.
The confidence you display about what you think happened, from the bar room to the attorney’s conversation with the accuser is astounding. Based on simple statistical analysis, I think you should bet everything you own on it. I’ll anxiously be waiting to drop a dime in your cup.
But yes, you have every right to express your opinion, no matter how wrong it might or might not be. At least I know what I don’t know and still have some sense of humility while not jumping on the bandwagon of conjecture. I’m sure you have a totally unbiased or objective position on rape, rape accusations, or gender politics.
all anyone with half a brain has to do
is read the police report and watch the interview of the young lady….it’s all there…..nuff said…do I think he went in there to play tiddly winks of course not…does not mean he’s a rapist or paid anybody off..gheez…he’s guilty of poor judgement and nothing else in my opinion.
by the duchess of steel on Jan 13, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
anything is possible
it’s possible to have rape w/o DNA, some was found but not enough. you can pull out, whatever.
it’s possible he was just guilty of bad judgement and still the girl got paid off.
it is just my opinion with the information flow stopping that some sort of settlement was reached and no civil suit.
Had it occurred to you that the dna might have been from someone else? His wasn’t collected, and the sample was deteriorated and not enough to make a determination. Does that mean it was his? Maybe in your mind it is. See how you are connecting dots where there are none to connect?
I think Duchess has it right.
wait a minute
these kinds of incidents happen all the time. it is not cut and dry, it is very possible that both people in their mind feel they are right.
right or wrong, it is the smart thing to do to pay off the accuser to put an end to all the bad PR. it is a business decision.
i am very confident a payoff occurred. that is the only thing i am confident of. i believe ben could be innocent and i also believe the girl could be mistaken or some variation of this. like she was ok up to a point then changed her mind. i also believe ben may truly felt he had consent.
i believe a payoff occurred b/c there were at least 3 with her that night, not a peep from one of them, not a rumor of a civil suit, nothing. i could be totally wrong, maybe this girl just dropped it and asked her friends to do the same. this is possible but it would still leave loose ends for ben, she could change her mind anytime and go civil. ben’s atty would almost force ben to pay if she was willing. it is possible a confidentiality agreement was reached with no money changing hands or ben donating something to charity. tiger is a perfect example, he paid off that girl even though he was not guilty of any crime, the rumor is $10mm. if he paid her, there are numerous possible reasons why he did it.
life is not fair, maybe ben got a raw deal, maybe the girl did, unless something weird happens we will never know. this is what a free society is all about. you have to think like a rich person, i lose more in endorsements and reputation by not paying her. i get to sleep not worrying a civil suit or a book is about to drop. will the rooneys trade me if i have another civil suit? i’d pay wouldn’t you?
My questions is: Why is this decomposed, rotting, dead horse beating beaten, yet-friggin-again when it’s water under the bridge?
There are people who want to believe he’s guilty regardless of evidence or lack of it…. and there are others who grasp at any theory that supports total innocence.
Fact is, we’ll never know the “whole story” but making it up as you go along is pretty much not the answer.
How about wishing both parties well as we leave their personal lives, mistakes, etc alone.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
by 1BlkGldFan on Jan 13, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Tell em!
Couldn’t agree more, but one small amendment…..
How about wishing both parties well as we leave their personal lives, mistakes, etc alone…..
….providing they continue to show they are committed to change as they have, so far, shown.
Well, by “they” I mean Ben of course. The girl can do whatever she wants, she’s not our franchise QB! :P
"I hated putting on that purple uniform, and I hated that raven bird. What really ticked me off is when we played Pittsburgh our whole stadium seemed to be filled with Pittsburgh fans." - Orlando Brown
by Tap That Pass on Jan 13, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
I hope
You aren’t including me in the “grasp at any theory that supports total innocence”
I have said in the past and will say it again. I simply don’t know, and contest those that think they do know because this is what our country is coming to. Just look at the tea party. No reason, logic or objectivity, just lies and misinformation to sway opinion.
Absolutely not, Jake
In fact I think your posts are the ones that make the most sense~ I’m with your opinion 110%.
I’m sick to death of people speculating that he dropped her cash (when they have no idea if he did or didn’t) … that the police reports are “tainted” (which is a cheap way of wanting someone to be guilty and blaming the “system” for letting him go).
No… I’m just done with the “he must have done something that’s being covered up” hogwash.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
public vs. private
unless you are really close friends with ben you will never really know him or even if you like him. same for peyton, brady, vick or brees. this is fool’s play trying to figure out who they are off the field (via media and pr) and it doesn’t really matter.
i know people who were berated by ben for asking for a picture at hines ward golf outing which they paid about $800 to play in. in private, hines apologized for ben and called ben an a-hole and said that is just the way he is. there are many other stories about ben mistreating fans. there were 2 other stories about ben fondling women, one in GA and one in LV. it is very likely ben paid off some women to keep them quiet.
you think athletes and entertainers don’t do this all the time? tiger paid and he didn’t even commit a crime. come on athletes have been paying off women and men forever. some were gold diggers and some were legitimate crimes and we will never know. confidentiality agreements are powerfull tools for any relatively rich person, paying $ is much better than losing your rep or career.
it’s better not to really know who they are off the field, especially someone like ben who has a lot of s*** swirling around, most likely you will be sadly dissapointed. you have to separate the player from the person, he is payed to be great on the field, period. if he can be cordial to the fans, stay out of jail and ride with a helmet that is all just a bonus.
His on field ability and leadership was never in question.
It’s just about his off field issues. To that respect he hasn’t proven anything yet, hasn’t really had much chance to either.
by Roa on Jan 13, 2011 7:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Something to say? Choose one of these options to log in.
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
"Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history."
Art Rooney Jr.
"Level-headed thinking." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Related FanPosts on Behind the Steel Curtain
Related FanShots on Behind the Steel Curtain
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
