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BTSC Steelers Six Pack: Settling into the Bye Week Edition

IX - I wouldn't say this is his finest effort, but I've still been enjoying Mark Kaboly's 'After Further Review' columns each week. In his latest, Kaboly breaks down the Steelers win over the Bengals, hands out grades for individual  performances, and shares a few statistics worth checking out.

X - Ben Roethlisberger granted a rare interview on Tuesday. In the short spot, Big Ben fielded questions about the Steelers' win over Cincinnati, his bevy of weapons in the passing game, using the bye week to get healthy, and how he keeps all his receivers happy with enough opportunities.

XIII - Jerricho Cotchery is a very good interview, always has been. On Wednesday he talked to Seibel, Starkey and Miller The Fan Morning Show about his increased role in the offense lately.

XIV - There's been lots of talk about the diminished role of Hines Ward lately. Ward though insists he's not frustrated or offended, just pleased that the wide receiving corps is playing well collectively. Something tells me he's going to help turn a game or two in Pittsburgh's favor down the stretch and come playoff time.

XL - Franco Harris is on a mission to try to get Joe Paterno re-hired at Penn State.

XLIII - And to conclude, how about a video detailing just how insanely special the 1974 NFL Draft was for the Steelers.

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Fun Fact

Jerricho Cotchery was born with six fingers on his left hand

by ChitownSteelerfan on Nov 16, 2011 11:50 PM EST reply actions  

My father

was murdered by a man with six fingers on his left hand

People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee

by stillergorillar on Nov 17, 2011 8:39 AM EST up reply actions  

My name is Inigo Montoya

Prepare to die.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter

by John Stephens on Nov 17, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Inigo Montoya's father was killed by Nigel Tufnel

six fingers on his left hand and his amp goes to eleven

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

That '74 Draft was fantastic,

but it remains a mystery how and why the Steelers botched the 1975 draft. Out of 21 draft picks, not one starter emerged, and only one player(Mike Collier-RB) played more than one season in a reserve role. The number one pick was CB Dave Brown out of Michigan, who spent his rookie season mostly on special teams. His performance was so disappointing the Steelers made him available to the Seahawks in the 1976 expansion draft. Ironically, Brown would develop into a fine player during a long career with Seattle.

by SteelStealth on Nov 17, 2011 12:03 AM EST reply actions  

interesting

wasnt aware it was that bad. definitely bizarre.

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Michael Bean on Nov 17, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

No room for new players to develop that year?

This is just a thought, not based on any real thought/knowledge, but could the 1975 draft class have run into a roadblock with so many fine players ahead of them from 1974 (slightly older and more experienced). Did the 1975 guys just not get any playing opportunities?

anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Nov 17, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The '74 Steelers did have depth,

so you have a good point there. But roughly 19 of those 21 draft choices couldn’t even make the roster, which seems more like a free agent tryout than a actual draft. Forgot to mention one of the cuts was TE Walter White, who was a good player for Kansas City for a few years.

It seems odd how the Steelers drafted so well in 1974, including finding talent in small colleges, but the magic deserted them in the 1975 draft.

by SteelStealth on Nov 17, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Ward is the greatest

Hines, you are truly a class act and Steelers Nation should be honored to have you on our team. It is obvious the influence that you have had on our young receivers. I pray that this year is not your last, but if it is, I pray that you return to the Steelers as a position coach. Your abilities, intelligence, dedication and team first mentality are a huge part of why the Steelers have been so successful during your years here. Any other veteran WR would moan and complain about his dimished role. You take every chance to teach your eventual replacements and make them the best they can be. While I don’t think ANYONE can replace you (your catches, that smile and the devastating hits you have laid), it is truly selfless how you have handled yourself this year.

I know that there is more in store for you this year. Those young boys are gonna get tired and get anxious in the playoffs. You and your steady play will be neccassary as a calming influence on them, and an outlet for Ben. God bless you.

by Spoon059 on Nov 17, 2011 12:48 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Ward could be a real factor

in these key games coming up, especially as a red zone target.

by SteelStealth on Nov 17, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

This

Ward has surely slowed down with age, but as the field shrinks down in the redzone, Ward has a uncanny knack for finding little seams in the coverage and getting open for the score, he also knows Ben’s scrambling, playground style of play better than anyone. Ward is the guy who knows how to get open best when Ben gets outside the pocket, they’ve been doing it for years together. Hes gonna be a big factor in this last half of the season. And I think he is gonna be huge for the Steelers in the playoffs.

by blitzzburgh on Nov 17, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Thank you.

Those who can...do.
Those who can't... post on message boards using a screen name boasting the name of those who can.

by Craig Sager's Wardrobe on Nov 17, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions  

What coverage has Hines been drawing in games?

I imagine with AB and Wallace, that Hines would be getting the 3rd CB- I think theres a lot of favorable matchups for him around now in that role. Just hope Ben throws it to him.

by SteelersVT on Nov 17, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

as a lifelong fan I say...

Franco, I appreciate the fact you love Paterno but stop it now!

The actions from this mess at best shows he was grossly incompetent in how they handled the mess, and at worse contributed to a cover up. There is no way to defend that, no matter how much you love the coach and all the good he’s done over the years.

The board had absolutely no choice but to terminate his contract. The University is a lot more than just a football program, and leaving him there would be like not cleaning up a nuclear waste spill. There is nothing Franco can say that will change this fact, nor will it change their minds. All he is doing is making himself look bad, although his intentions are good in sticking up for an old friend.

by lkwdsteel on Nov 17, 2011 1:03 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed

This is a situation where you step back and let things become what they will become.

-You're welcome.

by Jux on Nov 17, 2011 2:48 AM EST up reply actions  

"the actions from this mess at best shows he was grossly incompetent in how they handled the mess"

First of all, I think “gross incompetence” is a bit much with what we know right now. Second, you say “he” was incompetent about how how “they” handled things. So Joe Pa is incompetent for how other people acted?

I will not be wading into debates here about this, but you, like millions of other people, appear to be misguided. Your words reveal the confusion in your mind and your conviction to burn the old man at any cost.

Steelers fans of all people should know what happens during a rape scandal. Keep in mind you don’t know all the facts.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Nov 17, 2011 6:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Is it really a bit much from what we know now?

Penn State knows more than we do and they fired Paterno and let McQueary stay. I don’t think it is a huge jump to say that McQueary probably did more than Paterno to bring this situation to light (i.e. the former went to the police).

I think you, like many other JoePa supporters, are misguided by his legacy. You cannot believe that he totally screwed up here and allowed for dozens of children to be continually sexually molested by Sandusky. If there was any shadow of a doubt there, Penn State would not have fired him.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter

by John Stephens on Nov 17, 2011 8:01 AM EST up reply actions  

"Penn State knows more than we do and they fired Paterno and let McQueary stay. If there was any shadow of a doubt there, Penn State would not have fired him."

The PSU Board of Trustees spokesman stated that the only information they had at their disposal was the grand jury presentment. A member also admitted that they had to make the decision immediately to appease the media and because all the big wigs had to fly back to their jobs the next day. They rushed to judgment on someone who has earned the benefit of the doubt. Neither they nor you nor I had all the facts. We may never have all the facts.

PSU is a family like Steelers Nation is a family. That’s why I’ll stick up for the guy who always did things the right way for 60 years. Until I’m proven wrong with facts.

You’re a stats guy and a Steelers fan that survived the Spring of 2010 so I would think you would understand that.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Nov 17, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

where the heck were you earlier when I was getting teamed up on.....

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

working

holy crap dude you were holding it down! Man that was impressive. I’d wade into battle with you any time buddy.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Nov 17, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

lol..I don't know if you're being a smart ass or not

but if you’re being serious, thanks!

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

No I'm being serious I read all of that and wouldn't have been able to stay as logical and calm as you

You exposed some serious faults in peoples arguments in this thread. I am extremely biased in this situation, but I think I read that you aren’t. You just have common sense and the urge to speak out against BS. I respect that.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

Franco Harris:
"If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time."

by showtime on Nov 17, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

cool, thanks

that was the goal. it seems like people have too many knee jerk reactions, and their desire to find someone to blame takes them over.
either way, I have no ill will towards tann, we just disagree, but i still respect him as much as i did before this.

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

there are real victims in this case and Joe Paterno isn't one of them

Sorry, go and read the grand jury testimony if you want. More kids were victimized because Paterno wanted to protect his legacy and the university’s reputation rather than the children that were being attacked. There’s absolutely no excuse for allowing a child predator to continue to have access to more victims. NONE.

I agree also, very disappointing that Franco is mounting this effort.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

You know I read an article yesterday

about how this isn’t the only incident where Paterno put the University and his legacy first. In the early 2000s, black players on his team started to receive hate mail. Of course this coincided with a black QB starting for Penn State. Well the athletes and the President of the Black Caucasus at Penn State at the time went to Joe Paterno about it. He did nothing, he was too scared of how it would look for Penn State, stating, ’I’m just a football coach’ and ‘he would never do anything to put Penn State in a bad light’.

Safe to say, the hate mail turned to death threats. Eventually there was a murder, a young black male was found dead where a letter had previously said a dead black male would be. Could have Paterno prevented the crime? Who knows, Paterno is held is such high regard in that community his would could have very well calmed the storm. But silence was equivalent to permission in the eyes of the murderers.

Who knows what else has been covered up in Paterno’s 40 years at Penn State. I never had a desire for the man to get fired but there is clearly a track record here for Joe doing his best to make sure the University and his legacy is seen as beacon or morality. Ironically his and the University’s legacy will have an immoral blemish because of this blind devotion.

For those who said he did what he was legally obligated to do and that should be enough. I think the fact that he was fired like John said there shows there is more to this than we know. Also the fact that JoePa sold his property to his wife, a move that is done when one suspects they may be brought to court via lawsuit.

I could see both sides at one point, but I think he had to go now. If you are Penn State and you want to upload the image of morality then you have to let go JoePa since he may be not done anything illegal – he has done something immoral – harboring a child molester.

http://loop21.com/content/other-penn-state-cover-death-threats-against-black-students

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

The town is gonna have to change its name for the next 10 years.

I dont even like to see the word “happy” these days.

Your words reveal the confusion in your mind and your conviction to burn the old man at any cost.

I for one, would “burn” anyone that does that to any kid. It makes no difference that its Joe Paterno catching flack for allowing it to go on. The worst thing is that the majority of these things go unnoticed for years. He had a real chance to cement his legacy by standing up for the black players in the comment mentioned above, and seeing to it that Sandusky was reported to the police. Thats not being moral, thats just common sense. Although I’d find it morally bankrupt to sanction such behavior. I’m sure this is all hindsight is 20/20 thing but his inaction has been the grossest breach of authority in a long time.

by SteelersVT on Nov 17, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

tannofsteel84 I respect your opinion on the Steelers. I'll repeat my last sentence.

“Steelers fans of all people should know what happens during a rape scandal. Keep in mind you don’t know all the facts.”

And that is the last word about it from me on a Pittsburgh board. Now I’ve had my say. Franco and I will stand on our side.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Nov 17, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I know I don't know all the facts

I can see both sides of the argument really. I just think it depends on what you care about if you are PSU. If you care about how you look in the media then you fire him. If you don’t care then you don’t. They cared, they want to look like a university that does what morally is right, so they made that decision. I feel that it is the right one because you can’t say you stand for what is morally right when your head coach admitted that he heard information about a kids getting abuse and he admits he should have done more. Forget my opinion or what I do or don’t know, JoePa himself said he should have done more and I just agree with JoePa. I understand that others will hold a different opinion than me and thats ok I already hashed this out with Frank.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 18, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Mr Bean

I am extremely disappointed. How could you have posted an article from Deadspin? I guess you’ll be posting “articles” from TMZ, Yahoo, and Gawker. I realize it’s a bye week, but come on Mike…

It took me 10 minutes to research what Franco Harris said, and deadspin did exactly what they do. Spin.

I suggest all read the original articles from Pgh local media to really understand what Harris said before making judgments. I’m not defending either Paterno or Harris, but spreading misinformation and spin isn’t something I condone. None of us really have any details, of this or any other reports of the goings on in a nationally recognized university.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 10:31 AM EST reply actions  

So what exactly is the point here?

All articles point to this one. If you read the article carefully, Franco Harris was displaying loyalty to a former coach and asking for details, not condoning pedophilia or sexual molestation. The deadspin article was suggesting, based on cherry picked facts, that Harris thinks it’s OK to look the other way when sexual abuse occurs. Harris is not condoning sexual abuse or pedophilia. Or even letting anybody off the hook for ignoring it or following procedure because he remembers his previously widely respected former coach fondly.

Who care’s if casino’s fired him? When it comes to money, any remotely perceived negative association will be dissolved, and that’s exactly what the Casino did. Because the Meadows fired him must mean they don’t agree with Harris’ belief that one should follow procedure? Harris must be morally corrupt because he shows loyalty to his former coach? His firing means nothing in regard to what Harris thinks or the facts of the case.

The perceived reputation of Penn State University is what caused Paterno’s dismissal. And I’ll agree with what the university president said. “PSU is more than just football.” It is possible that Paterno is innocent of negligence – just as possible that he is guilty. We just don’t know at this point. Or at least I don’t. (Anyway, why didn’t McQueary go to the police? Why aren’t the same standards held for him as they are for Paterno?). The deaspin article and the ones you furnished haven’t said anything different. It’s gossip and intended to stir the soup, implicating anybody they can for profit.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, the 24 hour news cycle, profiteering, and the current penchant for turning grays into black and white makes this discussion The Good vs The Evil once again, and people’s livelihoods and reputation are at stake.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I for one

don’t give a crap about someone’s reputation. If Sandusky is guilty JoePa deserved to be fired. Franco should keep his mouth shut until he finds out all of the facts.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

The facts have not come out in BR rape accusation and his reputation is already ruined.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

all things not equal here

I agree about the Ben case and I was a staunch defender of him at the time, if only because the press were reporting any flimsy statement from whoever, including hearsay from persons not related or knowledgeable about the case at all – and especially things that weren’t in any true, or even possible.

But the case itself was unfolding at the same time that the BS news reports were coming out; in this PSU case, you have a 3 year grand jury inquiry covering events that happened years ago. The conclusions of that inquiry are that children were victimized and certain officials perjured themselves to cover it up. The conclusion is also clear that Paterno had the power to put an end to it and banish the guy from PSU facilities and he did not do that. Even if he only thought that the offenses were (as he said ) only “fondling” that’s still more than enough reason to make sure the guy never had access to children again. Would you want a “fondler” running a football camp for youth in your back yard?

And you’re missing the point here. Given the recent events and the tarnishing that the Steelers’ reputation has already taken in the last few years, making a public case for Paterno is exactly the last thing Franco Harris should be doing right now.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Like I said

I don’t care about someone’s reputation.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

If Sandusky is guilty Paterno deserves to get fired?

something sounds wrong with that statement.

So should the GM of the Ravens been fired because of what Ray Lewis may or may not have done?

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

he should

if the crime was reported to him and he tried to cover it up

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

ahhhh

“ain’t that America”

always looking for who to blame.

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

um

if you did something wrong shouldn’t you get some blame?

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

the person to be blamed

is only the person who did it, period.
The American way is to dissect something after the fact and try to dig your way till you can find some stupid connection all the way up to the victims second cousins.

Very strange that the one that “saw it happen” was the one who survived eh? He thought he had that job all sewn up, if he could just get Joe out of the way.

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

that's just silly

and it’s wrong. There are laws specifically pertaining to child predators – if you know something you are supposed to report it.

Are you saying if you knew a child predator, you wouldn’t report it? Or if a child predator had victimized your own child and someone else knew and didn’t say, you would forgive them for not speaking up?

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

see

you are saying “know” Joe Paterno didn’t “know” anything. He heard some things from some guy that really wanted a coaching position.

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

quick making Paterno the victim

it’s just sad for you to do that.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

did you mean quit?

did I make him the victim? or did i point out how ridiculous it is for you people to vilify him when he is by far the least responsible. I don’t know what it is about people like you that react after the fact like you know how everything could have/should have went down in order to make it ok in your eyes. That’s sad.

the hierarchy of responsibility goes like this

Sandusky-A.D, McQueery, Parents of the Children, Joe Paterno.

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

No one is vilifying Paterno

just pointing out that he is human and made a mistake.

Here is what you can’t understand.

If Paterno would have done something in 2002 there would have been less kids getting molested.

Point Blank Period. They knew of several instances where this guy was doing something shady and they did nothing to stop it.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

well, if Mark David Chapman's

girlfriend took him seriously, John Lennon would still be alive..
Is that his girlfriends fault? No sir.

Jerry Sandusky…he’s the one you want sir

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it the girlfriends fault

Yea, if my wife told me shes going to kill soemone. I’m not just taking that lightly.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

what's worse than evil men

are good men who do nothing to stop them

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

before or after the fact

I know if there is a child molester that is anywhere near me I am going to do whatever possible to stop it and make sure the person goes to jail.

You clearly don’t know the facts of the case. As I said before, take time to read the grand jury investigation. Paterno only acted to save his own reputation.

When you use words like “villify” and “least responsible” you are actually making a case that Paterno is the victim. He was the most powerful person in the athletic department, and arguable the entire university. Of course he could have acted.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

there is that "know" word again

“have heard” is more appropriate.

You clearly don’t know the facts either, because nobody does. It’s hearsay. One person’s words against someone else’s
That’s all you’ll ever have when you follow a news story, so it’s really silly to get so emotional about it.

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

like Bob costas said

if all these people are lying Sandusky must be the most persecuted man on the planet.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't say that he isn't guilty

I’m saying steelyballs saying Joe “knew” is ridiculous. He heard some things.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

if you heard "some things"

about someone who worked for you fondling kids, would you be quite so non-chalant?

And why did Jerry Sandusky retire at 55, when he was supposedly the heir apparent to the PSU head coaching job?

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

when the allegations came

from the guy who WANTED to be the heir apparent, yes, I would probably question McQueery’s motives.

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Question his motives you may

but you still have to follow up.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Joe admitted

he should have done more. Which suggest he knew more than ‘he heard some things’. Come on frank. Someone comes to you and says that guy is fondling little boys thats just not somethings.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

he should have done more

no one said that. He didn’t, that doesn’t make him responsible for what Sandusky did or didn’t do.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

it makes him at least

partially responsible for everything that happened after that point. He had the power to get rid of him and not allow children to be abused at his facilities, and yet he acted in his own self-interest to save his reputation.

The irony is, he could have put a stop to it and saved his reputation right then and there.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

no he couldn't

the same thing would have happened. People would start digging until they found something they could use to put on the news for shock value, and it would the same circus it is now.

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

?

If he would have done something earlier, less kids would have been molested.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

like i said

he made him an enabler.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

ok, not surprising you'd say that

this is America, where nobody is responsible.

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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

?

I’m saying that Joe is an enabler. He is responsible for his own inaction. Sandusky is responsible for his action. the GA is responsible for his inaction and the AD is responsible for his own inaction. What more is there to say?

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

duh-de-duh-duh-duh

grand jury investigation, dude. People have already been charged for perjury. MANY people’s words against somebody.

I hope your children aren’t ever abused, but if they are, I hope you aren’t so deluded.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

how bout you describe

exactly what is involved in a grand jury investigation, and why it has struck such a chord with you?

what do they do in one of these that makes it the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

now you're just being ignorant

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

so can you answer or not?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

the fact that people

have been arrested for perjuring themselves would be a start. There are 21 counts against Sandusky as a result, and that’s not a result of just “hearsay”. The university fired Paterno, and that had to be on something more than just hearsay. This is going to unwind for a while, but with information coming out that Paterno turned the family home over to his wife’s name says that he knew trouble was coming.

A grand jury investigation isn’t just he said/she said, it’s 3 years of interviews and fact-finding by the attorney general’s office of Pennsylvania. Your ignorance is in dismissing it like it’s just some fake news report.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I sweat it's like I stumbled across

Fox news on a football thread

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

You might want to stop...

…before insinuating ANY responsibility to the parents of the victims. Factual or otherwise, your including them in your “hierarchy” is repugnant at best.

United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.

by PaVaSteeler on Nov 17, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m guessing here, but I think what frank is getting at is that if the parents knew, they should have been vocal about it as well, avoiding possible further abuse instead of waiting for years to come forward.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, that is what I mean

thank you. There’s something to be said for not just picking out one word and over reacting about it

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

So

if I witness a murder or hear of the murder and do not go to the police, am I not complicit in the murder also?

Thats law. You can be charged with an Accessory to Murder for not helping the police or obstruction of justice.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

nope, you say you know nothing

because snitches get stitches.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats not the point

you can still get charged if they prove that you knew.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I was joking about that

but..no I wouldn’t help the cops in any way, for any reason.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats a shame

you could save someone live if you did. I always been of the thinking that no matter how many men abuse the power of the badge we still need them. They keep total anarchy for occurring and I don’t want my kids growing up in an America with no cops.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

what?

you said there was a murder. who am I helping live? the guy’s dead no matter what, let them do their job.

I’ve never encountered a cop that wasn’t a dick, so why would I want to help them?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Because

if someone murders someone that have the potential to murder more, you want that person off the streets and pay for their crime. Seriously?

It doesn’t matter if a cop is a dick, you need to help them.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

well, i'll take that in to account

should the opportunity arise.

But no..they get paid to do a job, I wouldn’t ask them to help me at my job.

Plus that “they may murder again” I don’t buy it. Most murders occur for a reason, not just randomly going out and killing people.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Frank

if you don’t mind me asking, how old are you?

Lets put it this way. If most murders occur for a reason, those reason can arise at any point which can cause another murder.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

We're not talkin hypothetical murder here...

…we’re talking about a serial crime, its very pathology includes a desire to continue until caught/unable to stop until caught.

The “crime” Paterno is guilty of is moral and ethical failure to ensure that no children were put into a situation where they would be at risk; that mean banning Sandusky from Penn State AND notifying the authorities that a potential predator may be at large.

If you hear a prowler outside your door, do you wait until he breaks in before calling the police? No, you call them because of suspicious behavior, even before you know if a cirme has been committed.

United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.

by PaVaSteeler on Nov 17, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Can you prove he didn't?

How is anyone going to prove anything, without being a part of the investigation. This is going to be sealed up due to the ages of those involved. I don’t think we will ever know exactly how this was allowed to happen.

by SteelersVT on Nov 17, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

So why all the witch hunting?

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont see it as witch hunting here.

So far, big name like his, of course its going to raise awareness and perhaps increase reporting of actual and even suspect situations.

by SteelersVT on Nov 17, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Awareness?

If we, as a society, have to raise cultural awareness about how pedophilia and sexual molestation is bad, then Imma gonna shoot myself right now.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure what you are getting at?

All of this stuff is so hush-hush. I’ve seen firsthand how these things get covered up. This isn’t rare- this BS happens on a daily basis, everywhere. These kind of crimes are usually hard to catch. To say that this is an issue that we as a society have made major gains in eliminating, is rhetoric at best.

by SteelersVT on Nov 17, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m talking about Franco.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

"Can you prove he didn't?"

Most (intelligent) people know that’s not how the law works.

by Riddlah. on Nov 17, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Paterno said himself

he thought the offenses were “just” fondling. Well “just” fondling is child abuse, and he let that child abuser hang around and have access to more victims at his football facilities.

Answer my question from earlier: Would you let a child abuser run a youth football camp in your back yard? Well Paterno did. And he knew something was going on, because he admitted it. Sandusky was forced to retire in 1999 but was allowed to use PSU facilities until 2002 for his football camp.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

so what am I missing

did he or did he not report it to his bosses? (remember, he’s just the coach…sort of)

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

smh

So him being the coach prevented him from reporting it to the police after he saw his bosses did nothing?

What about getting someone to watch Sandusky to get a confirmation that this was going on?

What about limited Sandusky access to Penn State?

Does him ‘just being a coach’ prevents him and absolves him of any moral obligation to do anything besides just tell his bosses?

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

so, you are making a moral judgement

not a legal one, or an administrative one. He did what he was supposed to do. People accuses people of things all the time. He’s busy doing his job.
I don’t know that he can really spy on him, I think that might be illegal.
“obligation” is a subjective word. The people responsible for action did not act.
Do you know what happens if you call the police and say “hey, this guy might be raping kids”
they would ask what you have to base those claims off of. Then when all he could say was “i heard it from a guy” they would not do anything

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

and if he did, and it was nothing

he would have dragged someone’s name through the mud and put a permanent black mark on him.
again, he heard a thing from a guy. But if it makes you feel better to put it all on Joe because he’s the most recognizable face at the school, by all means

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

and if he did and it was nothing

then its better to be safe than sorry.

And it makes you feel better to defend joe because he’s the most recognizable face at the school and you think he can do no wrong.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

better safe than sorry?

what? This is a coach he’s known for a long time against some grad student that wants to work his way through the coaching ranks.
That’s insane. So…it’s ok to ruin someone’s life, as long as later on it turns out to be true?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

You are applying the same flawed logic...

…in your characterization of the grad student that you accuse tannofsteel84 of applying to Paterno.

United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.

by PaVaSteeler on Nov 17, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

but...he actually "saw" something. right?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think he can do no wrong

I don’t even care about him or Penn St, at all. I do have a problem with the witch hunt, and people not blaming it on who it needs to be blamed on. He’s a coach, not the God of Happy Valley

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Its not a witch hunt

Your logic doesn’t make sense.

So Joe should protect Sandusky just because he known him for a long time?

And how would it ruin Sandusky’s life? All you have to do is find out what was going on. If nothing is going on no harm done, if it is then Sandusky already ruined his life.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

did you seriously just asked

how being accused of raping little boys can ruin someone’s life? You’re joking right?

Then the police get involved…

and you typed that right after saying my logic didn’t make sense.

Those Duke Lax players…definitely no harm done there huh?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Last time I checked

they are doing better than they would in jail. I have no sympathy for them.

There is more to that case than meets the eye anyways, but thats another conversation.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

so it’s either jail or an awesome life?
well i suppose if you put it that way…

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

There is only two things that can happen. Either you go to jail for committing a crime or at worst you could have your reputation a little dented. I pick the later 7 days out of the week.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

well, that just says

you’ve never been accused of raping someone.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually

it doesn’t.

I have been questioned as a child molester.

I was playing with my friends cousin (I was bouncing her on my knee). My friend was uncomfortable with it so I stopped. She asked if I ever liked little girls, I was like “heck no! You’re crazy, I’d never do such a thing, what would make you think that?’ Sandusky didn’t have that type of reaction, it was more, ‘do i like little girls…….. do I like… well I like being around little girls…. I enjoy playing with them… but no I don’t like little girls” Completly different answers.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

did the accusations go outside of you

and your friend?
and sorry, but the way you answer means nothing. Criminals are great at convincing people they aren’t criminals.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

The way you answered it

has everything to do with it.

Her sister questioned it too but that was the extent of it.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

but you didn't have to go to the police station?

your family wasn’t aware of it? your name didn’t get dragged through the mud outside of your friends house?

that’s not the same thing…at all

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

they confronted me though

Thats more than what JoePa did.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

And they had

a heck of a lot less evidence to go by.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

but

you are comparing yourself to what the Duke LAX players, and Ben Roethilsberger are going through, when there are absolutely no similarities. Please, I know there are a lot of different conversations going on here, but can we keep each one separate, it’s getting hard to follow

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Duke players not a valid example...

…what happened to them was a result of another person using their situation for their own personal advancement, and the supposed “victim” looking for a quick buck.

United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.

by PaVaSteeler on Nov 17, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

it's the same in that

they were accused, and presumed guilty, and even today they have to face that assumption of guilt

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont think

they have to face that assumption of guilt today

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

there will always be people

that remember the story, don’t know everything about it, and still treat them like they are guilty.
But, if you don’t want to use that, Then use Big Ben

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

difference is

you can’t name one person on that duke lacrosse team, most people can’t, they just know duke lacrosse team. Trust me, I live in Raleigh, next to durham.

I heard everything that came out of that case. There was some shady stuff going on and still is. Our whole SBI was audited and found guilty of withholding DNA results from police. So instead of actually finding the actual DNA results, they just burned them all.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

so, their friends and family don't know them?

is that what you mean?
they don’t have friends of friends that look at them funny? you don’t know that

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sure their friends

aren’t looking at them funny. They believe in their innocence. Their family may look at them funny for being drunk and having two black strippers over to their party.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

why they gotta be black strippers huh?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

um they were black strippers

they were black and they were strippers. Thats just facts.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 18, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions  

lol

i was kidding man…sorry…i’ve seen too much tv…shows like where “black” or “color” was named and the answer was “why they gotta be black” or blah blah blah..
sorry man

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by FrankWyt on Nov 18, 2011 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

i was calling you a racist basically..

what now?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 18, 2011 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

actually he was god of happy valley

His stature was such that even at 84 years old and clearly incapable of taking on the duties of a head coach, no one was going to get rid of him (pre-scandal). No one could get hired or fired in the athletic department without his approval.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

They tried to fire him

he just said no, and got an contract extension.

Yea, he’s ‘just’ a coach. lol

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

your arguments would actually make sense

if there weren’t a grand jury investigation that has already determined at least 8 victims. But there is. Furthermore, there is a record of bad judgments there for all to see.

A child predator was in their midst and instead they (the AD, university pres and Joe Paterno) all worried more about their own reputations than they did the children that were getting abused.

You’re just playing make-believe to think Paterno is being treated badly here.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

pathetic. just pathetic.

read the grand jury investigation. It was known they had a child molestor in their midst as early as 1997. He was forced to retire (why, one wonders?) in 1999, but continued to have access to PSU facilities until 2002.

That’s just shameful.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

2002?

He had access to PSU facilities this year.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

yuck

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

do you really think they would not do anything?

People get fired over moral judgement all the time. People getting drunk at office parties and get fired. How is this any different?

If you really think the police would not investigated when his GA was an eye witness, then you are sorely mistaken. Especially when they look at find that the guy has had these charges brought up before.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

yes,

i do think the police would do nothing

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

You're crazy

How would anything get solved if Police never followed up on tips?

If I called and said my friend found a dead body on I-40 they would send a cop to go look.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

i think they would give you an ogligatory

“look-over” but cops aren’t really interested in things that don’t generate money.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

???

So you basically admitted you was wrong.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

how?

cops would do nothing, as the do in most rape cases. There are articles and studies of how police react to those things.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Doing nothing

means nothing gets done.

Last time I check, they at least look into it. Which you admitted by saying -

i think they would give you an ogligatory
"look-over"

Which contradicts your previous statment –

i do think the police would do nothing

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

the " " around look over signifies that they will poke their head in for a minute, say “nothing to see here” and go back to trying to write tickets.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

and what if they poke their head for a minute and find a dead body?

Do they go back to writing tickets?

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

they may be forced to react to that

because they actually see something going on.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

which prove

what you said wrong.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

it does not

they actually found a body…in their face.
seeing if something was going on while performing a routine check-up, is not going get anything found.
unless they just happened to walk into the shower while the guy is doing what he did

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

you really believe they'd do that?

with the budgets police have, their lack of interest in anything that’s not going to have a criminal in their giving them more money, AND the fact that it’s only someone’s accusation?
Come on…

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

this isn't just someone's accusation

this is a repeated accusation, with several eye witnesses on different occasion. This isn’t a one or twice time deal.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

it wasn't repeated accusations until the story broke

last week, then it everyone else came out of the woodwork, right?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

no sir

1998, 2002 are at least two other times when these accusations surfaced.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, that's the point being missed

if Paterno was told once there was a problem, it would be one thing, but this kept coming up again and again. He knew it was a problem.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

CHILD ABUSE deserves an administrative judgment?

If we can’t make a moral judgment about child abuse, then what can we? This argument is just stupid. The guy was RAPING little kids. There’s no reason to consider what the proper legal procedure is. Just get him out of there and in jail. You’re really bending over backwards just to somehow save poor, poor legendary coach Paterno.

Well the legend let 8 kids - and maybe more- get molested on his watch.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I forgot that he

“his watch” included seeing all things at all times.
The all seeing eye of Joe Paterno…the 100 year old guy…

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s those special one inch optics he has on his face.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

in 1999

Joe Paterno was not 100. According to him, he was told a child was fondled. And yet Jerry Sandusky was still running his youth football camp at PSU until 2002. So Joe Paterno allowed a child abuser to have access to more kids at his own football facilities. If you don’t get that, you never will.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

so..about the A.D who Joe reported the allegations to?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

doesn't make

Joe’s inaction any better.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

HE'S JUST THE COACH!

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

One man's inaction

doesn’t excuses another. What does him being the coach has anything to do with it? I don’t care that he is ‘just’ the coach (lets ignore for a second the circumstances of him being ‘just’ the coach for now). PSU has to clean house, everyone has to go.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

what it has to do with

is that the people who could have/should have done something about it, didn’t
If Mcqueery wasn’t more worried about getting Joe’s job..he would have done something.
You can’t just take people’s words for things when the allegations are that serious.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Right
You can’t just take people’s words for things when the allegations are that serious.

Which is why you look into them to see if they have merit.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

and how can you?

the kids didn’t come forward. Sandusky isn’t going to come out and say he did it, and McQueary’s story has more holes than an Afghan

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Kids have came forward

where have you been?

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

between 97 and 2002?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

came forward to the police?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

yea man

now they have came foward. They aren’t identified for obvious reasons. But there are people pressing charges, parents speaking out. You gotta pay attention.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

so they did it now...

9-14 years later..
but..it’s on Paterno

so, when these things were happening, any one of those kids could have told their parents, the police, or anything..but they didn’t, right?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow dude

you really expect 11 year old kids to act as adults?

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

There are adults

who get abused and still are to traumatized to tell the cops.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

well, adults realize the old saying

that rape victims get raped twice.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

no.

tell their parents, yes

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

so…other people are more responsible for people’s kids than the kids parents? what now?

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

what if its the parents that had let their kid go with sandusky?

some parents just do not believe their own kids.

what is that saying then? what if? I don’t know, the kid has horrible parents I guess.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

but of course...!

its not “more” but rather- it takes a village to raise a child. If i see a judge and his wife beating the snot out of their mentally challenged daughter for downloading pirated music, you’d better be sure I’d do my part to speak up, evem if I knew I might get silenced due to the power they might have.

by SteelersVT on Nov 17, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

So you think

kids tell their parents everything they are suppose to?

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

My 6 year old doesn't tell me everything!

Kids will be kids- they are easily intimidated, abused, used, and co-oted. They do not have the power to fight or discern. This is why child predators are the worst.

by SteelersVT on Nov 17, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

Thats why we have laws to protect them.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

pretty sure

that every parent tells (or should tell them) what to do if anyone ever touches them in their no no place.
they learn that in school as well.
Kids don’t get the concept of fear of repercussions the way adults do.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

kids at these camps

were disadvantaged kids, many of whom probably didn’t have the best upbringing to begin with

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

you can tell your kid

whatever you want, that doesn’t mean they are going to do it

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

that's gotta be Paterno's fault

Coach, God, Babysitter..

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

that was a joke

but seriously, it’s easy to react and deflect blame. Sandusky is the man you want

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

oh...wait..i didn't mean it

that way. But he’s the devil here.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

That line of reasoning was invalidated at the Nuremburg trials...

…and also flies in the face of ANY moral or ethical belief system.

United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.

by PaVaSteeler on Nov 17, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think that line of reasoning is applicable here, but have you ever killed someone to save yourself or your family?

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't follow the logic.

I think the proper response is, ‘Have you ever killed someone cause your boss told you to’ right? am I am missing your intended point.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Saying he’s “just a coach” and he followed procedure isn’t applicable here. But in regard to the Nuremberg trials – The chain of command(do immoral things and murder because your commanding officer ordered you to), which is what PaVa is getting at I believe – some officers were threatened with death if they didn’t execute people in a firing squad, gas jews, or rat out others in their neighborhood. People are weak, they do things because of self preservation. People are also evil, and do things because it benefits them or their psychopathic ways.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

In this came, it at least seems, that Paterno didn’t do as much as he could have because it benefited him and his university -at least he thought it would. And the BOT fired JoePa because it benefited them.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

When I say Saying he’s "just a coach" and he followed procedure isn’t applicable here. is provided he knew everything explicitly from day one. That would clearly be turning a blind eye.

Also, do you actually believe Franco thinks Paterno will get his job back?

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea I do

I mean he wouldn’t be trying this if he didn’t think he could make a difference.

All I know is Joe admitted he should have done more. So are you saying Joe is lying and that he couldn’t have done more? I don’t understand.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

"if the crime was reported to him and he tried to cover it up"

There is absolutely no evidence that Paterno tried to cover up anything! Just like there’s no evidence that Ben raped anyone! Just because it was on more news sites and more people are going nuts about it doesn’t make it more true.

You sound fairly intelligent. Just because you probably don’t like PSU and Paterno doesn’t make him an evil person.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Nov 17, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you have to define

cover up. That phrase gets thrown around and I get the feeling we are applying two different meanings to it.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 18, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't feel I have to since I didn't throw out that allegation here.

Like Franco says, Joe has a well earned reputation for integrity and I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I believe he made a reasonable effort to deal with any allegations that came his way and I believe it will come out.

The point of the grand jury presentment was to give enough facts to indict the people who may have committed crimes. It’s not a full reporting on the situation.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

Franco Harris:
"If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time."

by showtime on Nov 18, 2011 6:02 AM EST up reply actions  

*so the Ravens GM should have been fired..

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Not cherry picking- but this is probably my definition of condoning.

Harris also was critical of state police commissioner Frank Noonan for suggesting that Paterno had a “moral obligation” to report Sandusky had sexually assaulted a boy in the showers at the Lasch Building to the police once informed by an eyewitness, a 28-year-old graduate assistant coach later identified as current Penn State wide receivers coach and recruiting coordinator Mike McQueary.

“When I heard that, it blew my mind,” Harris said. "Why would they bring the moral into the legal? Now, everyone gets to interpret in their own way. That’s what really bothers me: Joe did what was right for him to do. He forwarded the information to his superiors. That’s the legal procedure at Penn State.

He’s essentially saying that Joe did what he could do. And that if that didn’t stop the behavior as it were, well then its not Joe’s fault. That is condoning right there. He also suggests that it was a one time incident, with an “ex” coach. As far as I can tell, the “incidents” occurred several times, over the years. That’s just gross negligence if true, and right now, the court of public opinion is probably not on the side of Harris. Really surprised he would risk associating his name with that whole fiasco.

by SteelersVT on Nov 17, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s coming to the aid of his former coach, displaying loyalty. Look, I don’t know, and I’m not following this thing. I don’t know the facts, but answer this question :

Why isn’t McQueary, who says he actually saw the act, go to the police? Why isn’t he held to the same standard as Paterno? You think Paterno threatened him with losing his job? Violence? He would send former players to break his knees?

Also, what other facts do you know about what Paterno knew and when? How many scenarios can you think of besides being morally corrupt that would explain Paterno’s decision to ignore this? Did Sandusky just pull the wool over Paterno’s eyes? Was Paterno simply naive and lied to?

I have no idea, and I’m not getting on Franco’s case until all facts are known. Maybe Harris’ loyalty blurred his vision, but I tend to forgive people for speaking out of line every once in a while, and won’t jump on the “let’s blast Franco’s reputation” bandwagon just yet.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

He is doing more than displaying loyalty

His is saying that JoePa should have his job back. In other words saying that he was wronged in being fired. Thats not loyalty thats condoning what Joe did and did not do. Saying he should be able to keep his job for harboring and enabling a suspected child molester.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I ask once again. Do you think Franco Harris would publicly come to his former coaches aid if he actually enabled a child molester. Do you?

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats what he is doing.

Its not what I think, its what is happening.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess you know all the facts then? You know all the conversations between the university administration, the legal dept, franco and paterno, and everybody else in the case, yes?. You know more than the grand jury?

I can’t say the same.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

does Franco? So why is he doing what he is doing? You can’t pull that on me while defending a guy doing the exact same thing.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I would suggest that he knows more than you, or at least is closer to the situation than us. Have you spoken to Paterno?

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

You suggestion is noted

But highly doubted. What makes you believe that Franco knows anymore than any of us? Because he is on TV? He is in the exact same position as we are which is why he is ‘looking for more information’.

Doesn’t matter if I have spoken to Paterno. He isn’t who I would speak to anyways. Clearly he the man is capable of lying isn’t he? Or is he some diety that cannot lie?

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry, it's really hard to defend

what Franco’s doing. It’s not just a public opinion problem, it’s that it’s pretty clear that everyone who knew about this horrible affair acted only in a way that would save their own reputations and the university’s.

I don’t think that Paterno merely “forwarded the information to his superiors” is enough. When there’s a child predator in your midst, that’s something that should take precedence over all else. If his superiors wouldn’t act, then he should have. That goes for McQueary or anyone else in the equation.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

My understanding is that McQueary (i can’t believe the irony of his name) saw him perform oral sex on a 17 year old. Did Sandusky do it by force? Did he threaten him with violence?

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

No

McQueary saw him raping a 11 year old boy anally.

The janitor saw him performing oral sex at the high school.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Then McQueary should be fired, and jailed, right?

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

He should be fired

and legally he may be able to be prosecuted.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

don't know why he would ever want to stay at PSU

if he does he’s probably a dead man, given the anger we see just here on this thread

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

you are the only one that seems angry

I’m certainly not. I don’t know if tanno or Iron are though

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

those who would defend the indefensible kind of make me angry

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

it's indefensible in your mind Bill O Reilly

you are putting blame in the wrong place. It’s the classic american over reaction, looking for anyone you can to blame..
Joe didn’t put his peepee in any little kids.

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Bill O'Reilly!

That’s rich! I don’t blame Paterno for it happening in the first place, he couldn’t have known that his good friend and right hand man was a child abuser. But he did know later. You can argue that he didn’t, but he did. Sandusky was forced to retire, inexplicably, at the age of 55. Yet he still had access to PSU for all those years. He still ran youth football camps there. At Paterno’s facilities, on Paterno’s watch. The guy got a pass from Paterno because he was his friend and Paterno was worried about his own reputation. Period.

Sorry you don’t agree, but allowing child abuse to happen is as bad is doing it yourself.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Just to play devils advocate,

do you think maybe Sandusky hoodwinked Paterno? The simple fact he conducted an interview with Costas on National TV says something about his bravado. What if there were internal politics going on, and McQueary played Paterno like a fiddle? When it came down to who would get the jobs, then he sang like birdie?

Nobody answered my questions concerning possible scenarios other than Paterno simply protecting his reputation at the expense of sexual molestation and abuse of children.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

You scenario isn't plausible

If he wait to tell Joe when the Jobs was up then that would change a thing. Fact is Joe would have found out then its up to him to do something about it.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Fine, whatever

So for the sake of giving people the benefit of the doubt, come up with one you think is plausible.

But you won’t give him the benefit of the doubt because you are so sure with the limited information you have. You say “I don’t need more information” because he knew, and didn’t do anything about it.

Look inside that statement and ask yourself if it’s that clear cut. Everything is not so simple. Life is complicated. Very complicated.

Look, I don’t have all the answers, and am not defending Paterno. I just don’t know.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Benefit of the doubt

is not an obligation.

I don’t have to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone. It is a pleasantry extended upon based solely on who is giving the benefit of the doubt not the one who is receiving it.

I understand you give him the benefit of the doubt thats fine. But said himself that he knew and didn’t do enough. How can I give him benefit of the doubt when he has erased all doubt?

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Benefit of the doubt is rooted deeply in guilty until proven innocent.

I would say it’s an obligation to humanity.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

But when a person confesses

that removes all doubt. (in most cases at least) Doesn’t it?

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Hypothetically...

Did Paterno admit and confess to covering it up and allowing more kids be molested so his job and reputation would remain intact? Did others say he confessed to the conspiracy?

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

This is no hypothetical

Paterno admitted to the knowledge that it was going on and that he should have done more to stop it. Thats all that I have ever said. As far as a cover-up and his motives he has not confessed to that yet.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Waaaait a second.

You think I’m defending the indefensible?

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not angry at all

but yea he already has received death threats, its time to go.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

yes you're right

The reputation of Franco Harris is at stake (and by association, the Steelers) and he’s making some pretty bad judgments right now.

There has been a 3 year grand jury inquiry. The conclusions of that inquiry are not only that there are at least 8 victims, but that those in a position to stop the predator did much to save the reputations of themselves and the university and did almost nothing to stop the child predator. That includes Joe Paterno; if you think he didn’t have the power to get rid of Sandusky and stop him from having access to children at Penn State facilities, you’re kidding yourself. He very clearly was the most powerful person in the whole of the PSU athletic department, and the predator in question was his right hand man for years and the heir apparent to his head coaching position.

Again, this just isn’t the time to go on some campaign to try and show that Joe Paterno is the victim here. Franco needs to just back off of this.

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 12:27 PM EST reply actions  

ˆthis in response to IronJake

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

WTF does the Steelers have to do with this? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. This is the part I have a problem with, and the article is doing the same thing. Franco Harris is not guilty himself by extension.

I doubt seriously that Franco Harris would come to Paterno’s aid if he thought Paterno knowingly allowed this sexual molestation and pedophilia to protect his program. I guess most people are quick to make that assumption. I’m not. Because all I have right now is a article from a questionable website that implicates Harris for profit and gossip.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

you really are blind if you can't see it

Franco is a very identifiable former Steeler (see if you can find too many people that remember he played his last year for the Seahawks). The Steelers organization has taken some pretty big hits to its reputation recently. It isn’t fair, but the court of public opinion has already ruled on this PSU case and I daresay it isn’t too difficult for many members of our idiocracy to jump right from “rapistburger” (a term I only use to illustrate my point) to the next stupid and easy association Franco Harris is handing them on a silver platter.

I don’t like it, but them’s the facts. You can argue against it until you’re blue in the face but it won’t change how lazy most people are when it comes to lumping the guilty together with those that associate with them. So, to recap in less than six degrees: Child Molester > Paterno > Franco > Steelers

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

And I agree. But it don’t make it right.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

This phenomenon is a cultural flaw.

And by continuing it, we are all going down a slippery slope. This is how people were burned at the stake, and sent away to the gulag.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Whats weird is that there's never been a gulag or burning at the stake purging for all child molesters.

I guess its just easier if someone belongs to an ethnic group or is part of a minority, to do the whole burning purge thing.

by SteelersVT on Nov 17, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you're going too far here

All anyone did was fire the guy from a job he held for over 40 years. No where near equal to burning someone at the stake.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

not really

I posit the idea that the reason we are in Iraq is because of the same phenomenon.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea

no where near relational.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, the same thing, only bigger.

The end justifies the means.

Spreading lies, misinformation and associations is exactly what was used to take oil and give contracts to corporations.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Trust me when I tell you that what people say off the cuff and then justifying the extremist reaction to it (with no basis) can lead to very bad things. My family has experience with it.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think this is an extreme reaction

nor that the reaction itself has no basis.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

>Steelers Fans

we’re all guilty!!!!

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I was actually not there that night. I have an alibi. Do you want to meet her?

Franco can feel and say whatever he wants. He’s a grown man. I understand his feeling of loyalty to someone he holds in esteem. I applaud his loyalty. If not his argument. Franco is my favorite Steeler player and that ain’t changed because he gave voice to something he beleives, from his heart.

But Joe had to go.

by steeler fever on Nov 17, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Part of it is how the articles are written

Show me any article on Harris that also doesn’t mention or refer to the steelers. True for any athlete who’s name is a public commodity.

by SteelersVT on Nov 17, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

No, you are.

If the public, and the media want to make the connection between this and the Steelers, then I have nothing to say. How can an organization, removed from a former player by decades, have anything anything to do with this, is beyond me.

Does Franco Harris coach? Consult? Is he a paid spokesperson for the Steelers?

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 1:07 PM EST reply actions  

I think Mr. Bean is gonna have to add to the 'untouchable subjects' list.

Along with politics, religion, etc. now we won’t be able to talk about pedophilia cases.

by SteelersVT on Nov 17, 2011 2:16 PM EST reply actions  

lol

i think this is ok, no one is getting out of hand with personal attacks

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

it does tend to bog down the thread

"I respect everyone on the football field. But some people I don't like. And some people I dislike even more." - James Harrison

by steely mcballs on Nov 17, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

its thursday of a bye week

psst… we need something to talk about lol

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

This thread isn't bogged down

I think it is effectively dead as far as football discussion goes.

anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Nov 17, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

this post… so long, such beautiful debate. can be summed: all it takes for the success of evil bastards is the indifference of decent bastards

by klompus on Nov 17, 2011 2:55 PM EST reply actions  

I just wanted to stop and say

to Iron and Frank. That I think you guys are cool, I appreciate you having a discussion with me about this even though we have different views. I hope I didn’t offend either of you with the discussion.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Nov 17, 2011 4:23 PM EST reply actions  

No problem Tanno. And I repeat, I don’t know the facts of the case, and was arguing something more conceptual about our culture…oh yeah, and I don’t think Deadspin belongs here.

Frank is a troll, we should put him under a bridge somewhere. :-)

jk

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

that's me on the far right

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by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

You need to lose some weight

Formerly known as Steeler_

BTSC's token Kiwi fan. That means I'm a New Zealander. Yes, that small country next to Australia....no we are not part of Australia

by Michael Hewitt on Nov 17, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

hell no you didn't offend me

that was the most civil debate i’ve ever had, lots of potential to get ugly, but neither did.
i have no problem with debating things. You’ve been great as long as I’ve known you on here.

I appreciate you debating with me as well.

Also glad that it didn’t end with either of us hating the other (well, I can’t speak for you, but I don’t feel any different about you than i did before).

No worries man, you are awesome

This message will self destruct

GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, I’ve been called blind and I exaggerate. Nothing new for me. My reputation here has taken a serious hit. O_0

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think it was tann going that route though

the other guy, yes.

This message will self destruct

GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield

by FrankWyt on Nov 17, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh I know.

Tan’s cool. I have no beef with him. Or the others for that matter.

by IronJake on Nov 17, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

If you're wondering, here's the latest from the Penn State side of things

The Rumore mill says that the grand jury terstimony shows that 3 days after McQueary talked with Curley and Schultz, Paterno followed up and was told a full investigation was underway to investigate these matters. Not hearing anything, 3 months later, Paterno followed up and was told that the police and the DA were not going to pursue the matter. It is reported that Paterno’s reaction was one of anger and that he demanded that Sandusky be barred from campus/ Paterno was told that he did not have that authority, since he was only a football coach. Paterno then said that he was going to bar Sandusky from the football facility and was told he did have the authority. (4th hand from the AG office, take it for what it is worth.

Via Ben Jones

Tom Bradley- Bringing back Success with Honor since 11/9/11
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Nov 17, 2011 6:59 PM EST reply actions  

If that story is true, and he did have the authority to bar him, like you say he was told he did...

Then how come he never did end up barring him?

Those who can...do.
Those who can't... post on message boards using a screen name boasting the name of those who can.

by Craig Sager's Wardrobe on Nov 17, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

He was barred from the football facilities iirc

There’s a GIANT university gym near rec hall & along Atherton (Basically kinda on the fringe ends of campus) that’s accessible to any student and that’s the one he accessed. The ones the football works out in are in the basketball stadium.

Tom Bradley- Bringing back Success with Honor since 11/9/11 (Since the BoT aren't)
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Nov 17, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

They also work out at Holuba hall, which is where the team practices

But they might use the ones in the basketball stadium sometimes, I dunno where I got the basketball thing from, they might be separate, but I think both teams use them

Tom Bradley- Bringing back Success with Honor since 11/9/11 (Since the BoT aren't)
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Nov 17, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm...

I thought he was allowed to keep an office there even after he retired. The timeline is a little confusing to me.

Those who can...do.
Those who can't... post on message boards using a screen name boasting the name of those who can.

by Craig Sager's Wardrobe on Nov 17, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

If he was allowed to keep an office, that one might be on Curley, not 100% sure about that

Yeah, the timeline gets convoluted though, and honestly it throws me off too. The only sure thing so far is that Sandsuky probably did what he was accused of and that he mysteriously left in 99’

after that, it’s so many conflicting reports.

Tom Bradley- Bringing back Success with Honor since 11/9/11 (Since the BoT aren't)
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Nov 17, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  


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