Emmanuel Sanders Has Knee Surgery, Another LB Shakeup
by Neal Coolong on Nov 8, 2011 1:21 PM EST
in Steelers Injury News
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Steelers WR Emmanuel Sanders had arthroscopic knee surgery, and could be out a few more weeks, several sources are reporting Tuesday.
Sanders missed Pittsburgh's Week 9 loss to Baltimore, and with WRs Hines Ward (concussion-like symptoms) and Arnaz Battle (hamstring) both suffering in-game injuries, the Steelers were left with just Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Jerricho Cotchery at the split end and flanker positions.
Sanders originally injured his knee in Week 8 in a win over New England, and that, coupled with the death of his mother, led to his lack of participation in the 23-20 loss.
Steelers coach Mike Tomlin indicated Ward is ok, and could play Sunday in a critical divisional game at Cincinnati. Battle's status is equally undetermined, but Tomlin did confirm he has a strained hamstring.
The game of Musical Linebackers could see yet another twist this week. Steelers OLB LaMarr Woodley also has a strained hamstring, and may not be available Sunday, which would be only his second missed game since he became the team's starting LOLB. Second-year LB Jason Worilds started for Woodley against Baltimore, but Tomlin indicated Lawrence Timmons may start for Woodley instead of Worilds, because LB James Farrior may return after missing the last two games with a calf injury.
Timmons replaced James Harrison from Weeks 5-8, after he broke an orbital bone in his eye. Harrison returned to the lineup Sunday, and possibly earned Defensive Player of the Week honors with his three sacks of QB Joe Flacco.
With all the personnel rotation, the Steelers played an excellent defensive game. The decision to play their defensive backs in man coverage on Baltimore's final drive has drawn some skepticism, however. One week prior to Sunday, the Steelers were praised for their decision to play New England in mostly man coverage.
It will be an interesting game plan Sunday against Cincinnati, considering the Bengals have less - albeit improving - talent at the WR and QB positions in comparison to Baltimore and New England. Since the Steelers have to go their sixth consecutive week of not starting both Woodley and Harrison, they will again have to figure out how to generate a pass rush.
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Did you mean Baltimore and New England?
“…considering the Bengals have less – albeit improving – talent at the WR and QB positions in comparison to Baltimore and Cincinnati…”
Just once I'd like someone to call me "Sir," without adding, "You're making a scene."
lol--Charlestown Chiefs.
You’re welcome.
Just once I'd like someone to call me "Sir," without adding, "You're making a scene."
This sucks
the good news is Cotchery is legit. He does a great job filling in for Ward. Hes not as good of a blocker (no one is) but he makes the tough catches in the middle of the field to move the chains. Sanders is a huge loss, but it could be worse. I would rather have Sanders out than Wallace or Brown. I think we will be fine. We still got Ward (hopefully), Cotchery, Wallace, Brown, and of course Mr. Dependable HHHHEEEAAAATTTHHHH Miller.
I hope not
How is Worlids suppose to prove himself if Tomlin is going to play shuffle linebackers? Worlids did a decent job last week not seeing action in a long time. Timmons is out of place at the outside weather he is on the left or right side. Foote has done a great job in the middle. We arent missing that much with Farrior, especially on passing downs. He is too slow to cover anyone anymore. He does do a good job against the run, but we havent struggled since loosing him in the run game, actually our numbers have been better in the run since he has been out. Rotate Foote and Farrior, put Timmons back in the middle where he belongs and get Worilds back in there. He will prove himself.
I'm not sure Tomlin has the same outlook
He’s concerned first and foremost with getting to the playoffs. Development of his players is important, but Woriilds had all pre-season to show his development and quite frankly, underwhelmed. Now we’re playing big boy ball, and switching around your proven varsity starters is a better option for Tomlin than checking out how one of his junior varsity kids with potential is. Woriilds will hopefully learn the playbook better by next year, or we’re drafting a linebacker. Write it down.
I'll be hiking the Pacific Crest Trail from May, 2011 to Sept., 2011, to raise money for charity. For more info, please visit: http://thf2.wordpress.com
by Fifty-Eight on Nov 8, 2011 2:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
I couldnt agree more. At this point, having an able body in there is more imortant than grooming someone for a particular position. Worilds can prove himself as a team player who will fill in when asked, thats what is needed most right now.
by indianasteelers on Nov 8, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
this isnt high school football
And, so far Timmons hasnt proven himself at the outside. You say we dont have time to develop players, Than how long do we need to develop William Gay from a nickel to a starting CB? Another 2 or 3 years? The only reason Worlids hasnt been in before is becuase he has been hampered by his injury. Name a play where he screwed up last week. He didnt, and he did get pressure numerous times. Worlids isnt developing, Carter is.
Agreed
And I’ll say again, I think Tomlin just doesn’t want to give him a reason to lighten up. He rode him all training camp, I’m thinking he sees something special in him so he’s gonna push him to get better.
Tomlin has no specific reason to be truthful in the Tuesday presser about who’s gonna play where. Not saying he’s a liar, but it’s a good time to plant the seed in his head that he wants him to work hard this week, because he hasn’t won his job yet.
Makes sense
Tomlin is the master motivator. I think he will continue to keep people and try to get in the head of his young players. Remember him sitting Mendy, remember the game of two dogs one bone he played with Brown and Sanders last year? Worldis needs a little motivation to hit the ground running.
by SteelerBuddha on Nov 8, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
remember the game of two dogs one bone he played with Brown and Sanders last year?
That kind of stuff is exactly what I’m talking about. One of Tomlin’s gifts is his speaking ability. He has the skill to make bland sound fantastic, but the more you listen to him over the years, you can tell when he’s saying something he planned to say. He usually will speak of something when it’s fact, and be very vague about something when it is merely a possibility.
The fact he emphasized Timmons starting at OLB – or at least him indicating he doesn’t have a problem with Timmons over Worilds at OLB – suggests to me like he was sending a message through the media.
He may not have screwed up
but that might be more luck of the draw when he missed an assignment the play went away from him. I’d have faith the LB coaches saw enough bad film to make this decision. Besides, even if he didn’t screw up, he also didn’t exactly make an impact on the game.
I think that Worilds failed to impress and get more playing time
at least that’s how I’d interprit this. Evidently Tomlin feels better with Timmons on the outside than letting the mistakes Worilds made be exploited this week when Cinci studies the film.
It’s not just about Worilds, it’s about keeping Foote, Farrior and Timmons on the field at the same time. I liked the way Foote played against Baltimore, Farrior is a quality veteran, it’s hard to tell them to hit the bench for Timmons.
We’ll see how the week progresses.
Foote especially
I have always liked him, and I get the impression that what he lacks in physical gifts, he makes up for in intensity- the D always looks a bit more fired-up and focused when he’s on the field.
Plus, he’s from Detroit- in my experience, dudes from Detroit are usually pretty tough.
Re: Worilds. Hard to know what to make of him…is he still young, or is he just not panning out? While it’s unfair to compare him to Woodely (who got to start on an amazing D opposite Harrison), Worilds so far seems like he hasn’t lived up to his billing. Doesn’t mean he can’t, but I don’t know if Tomlin’s approach is the one that works best for him.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 8, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
please describe the mistakes Worlids made
He didnt make any serious mistakes and he didnt cost us the game in ANY way. this is all about motivating the player, you need to watch more game film. Worlids did his job and had pressure on Flacco on several occasions. Did well against the run also. Food for thought, we had all our starters in game one and look how many yards Rice had.
Polamalu didnt make an impact in the game either, but they didnt sit or pull him.
Wow, wasn't expecting that
How do we keep going from Sooo deep to so thin at every position? Good thing we have the standard. I hope for a speedy recovery from Sanders and hope 86 is suited up to play. I think I would rather see Worilds get some playing time and leave Timmons at ILB, I think we will need him against Gresham, I think Foote and Farrior will catch hell trying to cover that kid. Worilds needs to get playing time if he is gonna learn, now is as good a time as any, otherwise, put Carter in, he looked alright in the NE game.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
Injuries?
Hahaha…but if we weren’t sooooo deep, then we’d not be thin…we’d be disastrously depleted, and we aren’t that.
I'll be hiking the Pacific Crest Trail from May, 2011 to Sept., 2011, to raise money for charity. For more info, please visit: http://thf2.wordpress.com
by Fifty-Eight on Nov 8, 2011 2:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know, it's a good issue to have (talent at backup positions)
it is just getting old. it has seemed to go through a position at a time, not a player at a time, it has really been crazy how we keep getting thin at positions where we have depth. Think about it – down to 1 QB at one time, O-Line? D-Line? LB’s? Receivers? Really, it has been kinda crazy…
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 8, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
This pattern is noticeable and makes me think as well why does it occur
Can be pure (un)luck, we are simply wired to see patterns everywhere.
Or in some positions (especially OL) it can be like when you loosen a screw in a running engine, and all of a sudden the uneven load and vibration damages the other screws too.
Interesting way to put it
Not sure, I just don’t ever remember seeing whole positions get wiped out at the same time like this before…
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 9, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
If you didn't notice
on that last drive against Baltimore Heyward played ROLB next to Kesiel for like two plays.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
I didn't
Are you sure he wasn’t in his stance, playing as one of two on the line? He was standing up outside of the OT?
Cuz that would be interesting…
pretty sure he was in a two point and Keisel was on the field
I’ll have to look though
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
Correction
Saw it only one play on highlight where he was in a two point out side the left shoulder of the tackle. The personnel was Foote, Timmons and Harrison ( Harrsion was coming from the offensive right b gap) coming from the middle Carter from the defensive left and Heyward from the right while Ziggy was the NT. That technically makes Heyward the RE but was on the right outside shoulder of the Tackle that’s why it through me off. Last time I trust my memory until I trust my memory again.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
I thought Legursky
was a fullback.
And besides, I don’t think he’s fully back.
by SteelerBuddha on Nov 8, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
It was a joke
Ironic, considering I decided against using Trai Essex cuz of the harsh retribution I would receive for mentioning his name
exactly
Agree with you MDSTEELERFAN, another good pont and I made a previous blog, Farrior cannot cover guys out of the backfield and also struggles with TE’S. Farrior is good against the run, but we continously see how he is struggling against the pass. And, the standard is the standard, that is what Tomlin says, doesnt matter who is in what position and who is out. You meet the standard and play. Worlids is a good player and he needs to get playing time. As a matter of fact, they Tomlin and Butler both said in the preaseason that Worlids was going to get much more playing time this year to alleviate Woodly and Harrison to give them fresh legs on a consistant basis. This didnt happen because, unfortunately, Worlids has been hampered by a hamstring injury.
Worilds
will most likely see plenty of playing time in relief of Harrison and Timmons
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Nov 8, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I want to see him get some game time playing to evaluate what he's got
He definitely needs to work on his run assignments, but this guy could be a brutal pass rusher in the zone blitz scheme.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 9, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
This injury B.S is getting old
Pick on someone else!
This message will self destruct
Well last year it picked on Packers.....
could be a good sign?
Stay thirsty my friends.
by SteelerMessican on Nov 8, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
hmmmm
I gotta say, I like the way you think
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I cannot interpret the game tapes
So, let me ask, how did Worilds perform overall?
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
I thought he was definitely better than Chris Carter, and is a better pass rusher off the edge than Timmons.
I would furrow my brow if Sunday came and Worilds wasn’t starting (assuming Woodley won’t be playing).
Tomlin may just be playing head games with him. Don’t let him think he’s earned anything yet.
I am hoping it's that
Cause otherwise I would have to think he was playing head games with me…
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 8, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
He still does it to Wallace! You won’t read a positive quote from Tomlin about him without some subtle shot. He publicly calls him a one-trick pony!
I mentioned this in my notebook column, there was a spin-move Worilds put on Michael Oher that left him punching air, neither Woodley nor Harrison are athletic enough to do that. I could just be drunk on that one play and not evaluating him objectively, but I thought he did pretty well.
yeah, I have seen that quote and I saw your piece as well
Just want to feel a bit more secure about who is playing the injury bug has me a little gun shy right now.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 8, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Feel the same way
As we often do.
That said, I think Woodley recovers quickly, and I agree with Neal that, in a more consistent unit, Worilds would get some playing time in spot duty, and would be able to show that he’s earned it. That move he put on Oher was a thing of beauty, and I am guessing Tomlin rides him hard B/C he has talent, and he wants to see it maximized.
In other news, it looks like pre-back surgery James Harrison has returned. He looked dominant on Sunday night.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 8, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I couldn't have been happier with what I saw out of Harrison unless Woodley had also been on the field.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 9, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Asked this in another thread but no one said anything, and I am very curious...
Did you happen to notice Chris Carter out there? It seemed like Worilds played every single snap when we were in our base defense. Last week, after Woodley went down, it seemed like I saw Carter get overpowered on a lot of his pass rushes and pretty much voided out of every play.
Those who can...do.
Those who can't... post on message boards using a screen name boasting the name of those who can.
by Craig Sager's Wardrobe on Nov 8, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
I think the head games are appropriate for Wallace
I’m not convinced he is a whole lot more than fast. If he and Brown had the same speed, Brown would be the number one receiver on our team. I think Brown has a lot more game than Wallace.
Careful, I ruffled a lot of feathers with similar sentiment a couple weeks ago...
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 8, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
It's a totally fair question
Is he very good? Yes.
Does he do EVERYTHING you want a WR to do? Not to date.
Can he develop those things? I hope so. Time will tell.
Would the team be better if he excelled at more than going deep? Undoubtedly.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 8, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
LWG - I wasn't outright saying the same thing
but my sentiment was I think Brown is the most dangerous receiver that we are fielding right now, and a bunch of folks went nuts like I was somehow degrading what Wallace brings to the table which I was not, I just think Brown’s versatility is a bit higher (and yes, I realize that Wallace helps keep coverage off of Brown). so that is why I said a similar sentiment…
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 9, 2011 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
Are we sure Brown isn't the No. 1 guy?
I’ve said this a thousand times, but the term “No. 1 receiver” is a concept, not a position, so it’s not like it can’t change.
Right now, I’d say Brown is the Steelers No. 1 receiving option. He’s been targeted much more often than Wallace has the last three weeks:
Week 9: Brown 11, Wallace 6
Week 8: Brown 15, Wallace 7
Week 7: Brown 9, Wallace 7
Brown 35, Wallace 20.
Wallace is a vertical playmaker, Brown works underneath and inside (right now at least). It’s not as much an issue that either does one better than the other, it’s just that they’re really good at what they’re doing now. Why change it?
LOL!
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 9, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
So.....
Wallace = DeSean
Brown = Maclin
Stay thirsty my friends.
by SteelerMessican on Nov 8, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
It does contribute
and Wallace’s job is going to get harder every week, especially with the attention he has been getting in the media lately.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 9, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
how bout this
Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown are good complements to each other.
by steeler fever on Nov 8, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Ding ding ding!
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 9, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
I dont think we could be happier with our rec. corp
This guys have developed tremendously and it was a little concern that we lost Santonio Holmes, but that all has been wiped out and we are not missing anything by loosing him. Just hope at some point we can have everyone healthy. I feel Hines has also helped in their development. At times, on run plays, I feel they need to hold their blocks a little longer and use their blocking angles better, but that will come with time. Wallace especially. But these guys are probably at the top as far as total receiving corp Crotchery has really giving us even more depth.
I agree 100%
I think that we have the #2 squad in the league behind that ridiculous squad the Packers are fielding, but it is a very close second, and they are improving every game. I think that they will be one hell of a unit by the end of the year (hopefully Sanders isn’t on the mend for too long).
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 9, 2011 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
I think he could be
But I think you have a point that he hasn’t developed the rest of his talents yet, in part because the going deep thing has been so successful.
I think there were several quick passes to him in the Super Bowl where his comparative lack of lateral agility hurt him; they were the type of passes Santonio, poor attitude aside, used to grab, slip a defender, and then take for 30 yards. Wallace got pulled down for a loss a couple times.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 8, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
I would like to see Wallace
spend time working on getting in and out of his breaks and really focusing on his body language during his breaks, watch a guy like Welker – his body and head are almost always leaning away from his break right before he makes a cut – that creates distance with the DB and he almost always has his hands free to catch because of it. Little things go a long way in the league, if you get good at the little stuff, the big stuff opens up…
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 9, 2011 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
This
Well said. Wallace and C Johnson are two of the best young receivers in the NFL right now, but for as huge as they both play, they also both have things that clearly could use some improvement; if they make the necessary adjustments, the sky is the limit for either of them.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 9, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, there is no doubt he was better than Carter and Timmons at OLB and against some pretty stiff competition. He’s just not at Wood’s or Harrison’s level IMO. He still has a lot to learn.
What ever happened to Mario Harvey? Is he still on our PS?
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Nov 8, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
What ever happened to Mario Harvey? Is he still on our PS?
Nah, he did some radio show…“Rest of the Story” or something like that. I think he’s dead now.
“This guy here is dead!”
“CROSS him off, then!”
NVM
I found out: http://www.sknvibes.com/news/newsdetails.cfm/48923
Oh dear…
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Nov 8, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
you had me for a minute
until I realized the dude in the article was old and grey. Somehow I think you have your Harvey’s mixed up…
aw shucks
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Nov 8, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
yeah me too
“what? this guy is on the practice squad? he looks old”
was my response.
This message will self destruct
Anydoby know what's really the deal with him?
He seemed to have it all physically, except for an inch or two in height.
Was he not bright enough or just lacked good competition at Marshall?
too much competition at inside linebacker
plus he was hurt most of training camp, played only in the last preseason game. On the other hand, Mortty Ivy performed above expectation throughout preseason, and earned a PS slot over him. I would guess that if he’s still available, he will get another shot next offseason and then we go from there.
why not..
go to a 2 TE set and utilize Saunders?? He is big, strong and tall, should be good in the red zone, and quite frankly, we suck there!
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
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Steelers play plenty of 2 TE – or at least they did until the last two games. Saunders gets in on the 3-TE right now. He’s improving each game. Wouldn’t surprise me to see him replace David Johnson soon (credit to Stephens, who called that at the beginning of the year despite my adamant disagreement).
Saunders as the H-Back?
I just don’t see him in that role but that doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of it. Would Saunders be a capable target as a WR?
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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Nov 8, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Agree
Saunders can clear out an area better than Johnson, and can be a force in the blocking scheme. Like to see more of him this week.
"The standard is the standard." Mike Tomlin
The standard for Steeler football is #58. Me
by The 58 Standard on Nov 8, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
We should have made Limas a CB at least....
We still need a big strong receiver, Limas wasn’t goona drop passes forever. Watching the 2 rookies WR for Bal and Cin, I still can’t help but feel Limas could be helping us out, and didn’t get enough chances to shine and build confience. He would have been a good CB, me thinks. Brown has the best vertical leap out of all our WR’s, and CB’s it seems. Kinda sad… Like the refs on sunday night.
How can he play CB from the training table?
They might have considered giving him a shot, but he spent most of his time on IR
I used to have the same thought.
He definitely would have posed size matchup problems for other teams. Ideally, it would be as simple as plugging a guy in at any given position and letting him play. In Madden Football, I may have done this. Unfortunately, this is one of those areas where real life football and Madden differ. In Madden, you don’t have to teach technique and whatnot. The video game just assumes whichever guy you plug in at whichever position knows the respective technique.
Not to mention the confidence factor, which you must always take into account with a guy like Limas. By putting him at a position other than the one he was drafted so highly at, he may have interpreted it as your way of saying “okay, so you basically are a failure at the position you worked so many years to hone your craft at.” And then he would potentially have been even more of a lost soul than he felt at WR.
Those who can...do.
Those who can't... post on message boards using a screen name boasting the name of those who can.
by Craig Sager's Wardrobe on Nov 8, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
he also could take it as
his one ticket to stay in the NFL..
Some players can’t take the criticism (Eric Crouch) and some can (Scott Frost)
One of those had a decent NFL career as a DB
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I still remain perplexed
That Sweed panned out so poorly. I did not see that one coming, and for multiple seasons, kept waiting for the light to go on.
My other question for the general population is this: I know Tomlin loves his veterans; does it ever seem like he may NOT be at his best in bringing rookies along, particularly if they don’t take to it fairly quickly? Mendenhall, Sweed, Urbik, evens Timmons to some extent, all come to mind…
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 8, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
wait a second
Mendenhall? He got injured early his rookie year and then came back the next year with a 1,100 yard season and some great rushing efforts. The year after that, it was 1,300 yards and 13 TDs. I don’t think he should be included in that list.
Quite frankly, I think that it’s just one of those things where not every rookie pans out according to the schedule the team needs. For those couple of guys you mentioned, there is a LOT of other young guys contributing on this team right now that are doing very well. Hood hardly even made it onto the field his rookie year (speaking of not taking to it fairly quickly), and look what he does now. Same with Keenan Lewis, Antonio Brown (didn’t do anything on offense before the playoffs), Ryan Mundy, Ramon Foster, and so on…
Re: The Spin Doctor
I don’t mean in terms of success, I mean more in terms of getting along with Tomlin; actually, I think the game against the Titans this year, where he didn’t play, seems to have motivated him…I merely mention him as an example of someone who Tomlin has tried to bring along via tough love, which doesn’t always work for newly-rich 21 year olds.
I agree with your entire second paragraph. I don’t think we are contradicting each other; I am merely pointing out that a lot of the Steelers higher draft picks during the Tomlin era haven’t panned out. Whether or not that has to do with how Tomlin approaches them is not something we are likely to know.
But, my overall point was that, as a young guy himself, I wonder if he is better at dealing with guys who are closer to being his peers than guys who are close to a generation younger than him.
Also, with the young WR’s and D-linemen (Again, good analysis on your part), I think they had guys at their position group like Ward and A. Smith to help them- I suspect Tomlin is still working on his approach to younger players.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 8, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Additionally
This will be best judged 3-5 years down the road, when it is entirely Tomlin’s team. Certainly he’s had good success. I think he is a pretty good coach. But I DO think he needs to work on his patience with bringing some of the younger guys along. Maybe patience is the wrong word, because there isn’t a lot of room for that in the NFL.
But, I DO think his is an approach that works for most guys, not all guys. Sooner or later, I think he will learn how to deal with different personality types more effectively. I just don’t currently believe developing young players is his forte, And, unlike the Steelers of, say, the 90’s, Tomlin’s teams have been a bit veteran heavy, sometime to the extent that guys are kept on past their primes, for too much $.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 8, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
oh, undoubtedly
Tomlin is a good coach, but definitely has room to grow (which only makes me even more excited for the future). I agree with you on 99% of what you said, just took a little issue with Tomlin mishandling Mendenhall. Consider this: in the two games that Tomlin exercised ‘tough love’ on Mendenhall, Rashard came back with arguably the two best games of his young career: 2009 against the Chargers and against Jacksonville this year.
I like the idea of Tomlin having room for growth
and I suspect you are correct in that assessment.
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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Nov 8, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
without growth
there is only stagnation and/or decay
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Nov 9, 2011 7:27 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure I agree
Sweed was an anomaly. Mendenhall got sat down by Tomlin more than once and it has done what he wanted it to do and I think Mendy is a pretty productive back. He hasn’t been getting the looks lately though. Urbik, I can’t really speak to, not really sure what happened there. Timmons I think has been great, the one exception this year is he has played half a season out of position – I don’t think it is a fair assessment, he has been fabulous once coming into his own at ILB, OLB is not for him. he also made Brwon and Sander compete all year last year for a starting spot – I think that turned out well. ;-)
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Nov 9, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
I haven’t seen the game again.
How did Worilds do?
There was some mention of Harrison being winded on that final drive, but I saw some highlights and he definitely generated some pressure on that drive.
I think since the defense were on the field so much, they just couldn’t keep up with the wr of the ravens.
To me
Worilds looked like the guy they drafted. Fast, lots of potential and athleticism, and a couple plays where he showed what he could turn into, but he’s not there yet.
The other question though, is how he would look spelling Woodley or Harrison for a set of downs if the rest of the LB unit were stable around him, rather than beset by injuries.
To sum it up, he looked raw, but like he could very easily develop, given good circumstances. I actually thought he looked more natural at the position than Timmons has the past few weeks.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 8, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Fast and quick is right
But blew by run plays by shooting upfield. His blocking reads leave a lot to be desired. And he didn’t do much to impact the game either, so he’s a nice project, a good talent, but not a finished product by any stretch IMO.
Dick, what would Woody (Hayes) say to you now: "He'd say, 'LeBeau, get your hair cut.'"
200 yards too many
Did the Ravens have more success against the nickel or the dime defense? Seems like the record number of third down conversions came against the dime. If our secondary didn’t match up well against Baltimore in press coverage, not sure how well it will work against Cincy.
"The standard is the standard." Mike Tomlin
The standard for Steeler football is #58. Me
The Steelers don’t have to go into man coverage. I would imagine you’ll see them go back to zone against Cincinnati – defensive coaches don’t like to think their schemes are dictated by the offense. They want “to do what they do,” as it goes. Besides, Green is a monster, I think man would be a pretty difficult assignment for anyone.
Because the Ravens weren’t in many 3rd-and-longs, they attacked the Steelers nickel, but you have to credit Baltimore and Flacco for a lot of it. Sometimes the other guy just makes plays. Timing is so important, and when you have that down, it’s really difficult to stop. Regardless of where it was or to what receiver, it was a quick delivery, it was an accurate throw and the receivers made the catch.
I’m still surprised no one in the national media really got into the fact he was red-hot on third down and pretty below average on first and second. It just makes no sense. 14 third down completions is a huge number.
Agree
And…their running game never got on track. Don’t think Rice had more than 50 yards on the ground. It was the third down conversions (some short and some long) that was just unbearable to watch.
I live just outside Cincy, and I hope we rain on their 5 game parade in a big way. I do, however, like Marvin Lewis. A Pittsburgh guy that has tolerated Mike Brown (T.O. and Ocho, Ced and PacMan, and a host of other misfits and criminals) for as long as he has should be a candidate for sainthood.
"The standard is the standard." Mike Tomlin
The standard for Steeler football is #58. Me
by The 58 Standard on Nov 8, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Even with the injuries
Definitely want to see someone send the heat vs Dalton. He’s still a rookie QB. He’s played well (And by all means, I’ve been wrong about Dalton) but really, attack him. Especially off the edge of Andre Smith
If Joe Paterno walks, Graham Spanier better walk before him
Haha, fair point, fair point
If Joe Paterno walks, Graham Spanier better walk before him
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Nov 8, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
How many weeks ago was it?
IIRC several weeks back there were people grumbling about us keeping Cotchery, saying we were overloaded at WR and should have kept another XX (where XX was DL, OL or DB)?
I am glad we have the depth we have at WR and LB because if things look a bit tight now just imagine how back it would have been without this depth.
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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Nov 8, 2011 9:16 PM EST reply actions
Regarding LB's
I think you sit Woodley even if he thinks he’s ready and just use the bye week for additional recovery. Then most of our guys will be ready for the last stretch.
agreed
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Nov 9, 2011 7:29 AM EST up reply actions
Standared is the standered
keep playing Timmons playing ILB and Worilds OLB till he freaking learns. Why mess with two positions to save one?
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." ~Jack Lambert.
"Superman ain't got nothing on me, ... Kryptonite? C'mon now. It's just that you're never going to hear me say that somebody is tougher than me, ... Because I don't believe somebody else could be tougher than me." ~James Harrison
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Nov 9, 2011 9:09 AM EST reply actions
Because Timmons can play either/or, Farrior and Foote have to be inside and Worilds has to be outside.
I really liked what I saw out of Foote last week, and I think Farrior’s value to that defense is greatly under-appreciated by most. The value of keeping those two inside with Timmons outside is more of a gain than having Worlilds outside with Farrior and Timmons inside.
Just my $0.02. I honestly believe that last drive doesn’t happen if Farrior is on the field, if for no other reason than he keeps the team focused. He’s a leader.
Everything I’ve ever heard about Larry Foote, he’s kind of a spaz. Guys like him but he’s freaks out all the time. I saw a leaderless team on that final drive. Everyone is accountable, from the coaches down to the last player out there, but we’ve also never played in that close of a game without James Farrior since Kirkland and Holmes were inside and Farrior was in New York.
by Neal Coolong on Nov 9, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I don't mean to be argumentative
but I disagree with that statement
I believe that last drive doesn’t happen if the FO didn’t decide it was a good idea to re-sign the worst cornerback in NFL history
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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield
It’s not like they broke the bank for him.
Clark didn’t really do his job on that play either. That defense doesn’t work if you don’t have a safety playing as deep as the deepest receiver. He failed to do that.
He played a bad series, I’m not defending that, but he’s played well in other situations. With the development of Cortez Allen and Keenan Lewis, I’m not sure he has much of a role this time next year – if he’s even on the team.
by Neal Coolong on Nov 9, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
well
it depends on what you mean by “broke the bank”
to me, if it was more than a case of beer a week, and a few meals, that means they broke the bank.
Yeah Clark did screw up too. But if Gay wasn’t so bad, he could be a good team mate and cover up for his team mates mistake. He’s not
I agree though, he has been better than usual over all. But as usual, in games that matter…he William Gay’s it.
I hope he’s not here next year, and I hope Johnson is gone too.
While Johnson’s mistakes can be excused by some, they can’t by me. The things he does is indicative of the kind of player he is.
it’s one of those “you either got it or you don’t” situations in my mind.
Just my two cents..
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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield
Guy drops one pass and you want to cut him?
Cotchery dropped one last week. Should they cut him as well?
drops one pass?
not necessarily.
as I’ve said before. It’s that, then it’s last year in the Super Bowl…
he forgot where he was, looked the other way while Mathews was charging up the field, Mendy fumbled, and then he looked the other way again.
He is clueless, can’t keep his head in the game, and isn’t that good anyway.
It’s more than that one drop (which incidentally, cost our team the second big game in less than 8 months)
as has been said ‘you either got it or you don’t"
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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield
Agreed
First – Clark and Gay can’t be depended on consistently in coverage responsibiliites.
Clark is a hitter in the mold of the traditional strong safety but he is not good in coverage or even playing centerfield as exhibited on Sunday night.
Gay is what we thought he is – a better blitzer and general shit-disturber than a cornerback. He is widely inconsistent and tries to play like Ike Taylor if you watch his technique. He isn’t that big, that fast or 1/4 that good. He is the worst thing for a defensive coordinator – a CB who can’t cover consistently.
Johnson is below average in most ways – he’s slow, isn’t fluid, average blocker when actually blocking and inconsistent at the very least, and is not natural as a receiver. They use him because they have to – who else do they have? The hybrid TE/FB thing is a money-saver and also is aligned with BA’s mentality as an OC. I can’t imagine him developing into anything more than he is now. They will likely get rid of him as his minimum salary and cap hit increases.
"Franz" in NoCal
I'm not normally on the "let's hate Gay" train
i’ve actually defended him before.
that’s over. F him..
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GIMME FOOD GIMME FRIES GIMME SAMMICH ON THE SIDE - James Hetfield
On Clark
I think he has more int’s than any other DB on the team. I could be wrong.
true
he has 1
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Nov 12, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
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