Ben was own worst enemy
by tdbragg66 on Dec 20, 2011 5:01 AM EST
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PrintAfter watching the game Monday night between the Steelers and 49ers , its obvious the Steelers should have sit Ben down . Bottom line he should never have been on the field . He was clearly hobbling on one leg and could not push off on his injured leg . While it was a big game for the Steelers to take over the division lead again , there comes a time when you have to look at the big picture . Do you want Ben for the 49er game knowing you already have clinched a playoff spot or do you want him healthy and physically ready to go for those same playoffs ? If the Steelers have no more confidence in Charlie Batch than what there showing , then why have him on the roster ? You have a veteran backup thats started a ton of games , so the experience factor is not a problem . The guy helped win three games for you last season during Bens suspension , so whats the problem ? Only Mike Tomlin can answer that one .
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Tomlin want to win
and tougth Ben was the best chance, in fair conditions, I must agree with him, but yesterday the 9ers got plenty of help with all the injuries and mistakes (and suspension)
p.ex. in the end of 1st half they go for 6 instead of a long FG, why?, the kicker is untrustable and so
some dubious calling to the d, the holding on Foote and only holding on Woodley was the stadium size
by Ben Balesverger on Dec 20, 2011 8:43 AM EST reply actions
If we would have won, would this have even been a post?
BB gave us the best chance.
Things can always be worse....
I don't agree at all. He should have started but after they could see that he couldn't make the
throws that he is used to making and couldn’t get out of the pocket to save his life, they should have pulled him for Charlie Batch and then Dixon…otherwise we need to add another QB to the roster. I wonder how Charlie Batch felt??
Who's laughing now, O Line??? Ben Roethlisberger (from the Podium) to his O-Line and the world in Superbowl XLIII
by SteeladyinVA on Dec 20, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
He still passed for over 300 yards
yes he also had the 3 picks, but David Johnson didn’t get his head turned in time, the one sailed and Heath still almost made the catch, and the last, MW should have made a better adjustment to prevent the pick. Yes, he was not as effective as he usually is, but he did not play bad over all. Mobility was limited, and he still completed about 57% of his passes
Things can always be worse....
yep, my point exactly in the Fanpost defending the decision
It’s not like he was Ryan Leaf out there, he just wasn’t 100% Big Ben. Given what the offense needed to do to win, he was out best choice.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Don't worry.
I always wait till after the fact to decide what should have been done before the fact too. It’s served me well…
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
You may be right
I actually think he wrote a song about it last night..
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Hindsight is 20/20
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
Agree with all the sentiments that it's easy to say that now
There are so many factors that contributed to the poor play (power outage, terrible line play) that saying, “Ben should’ve sat this one out” isn’t a fair. Would Ben have played better if not for two delays that may have effected the pain shot? Could they have possibly known that Aldon Smith was going to beat Max Starks like a red-headed step child?
And if you’re calling for Charlie Batch, what makes you think he’s going to produce a different outcome? No pocket passer in the world would have had a chance with protection that poor. I’m not saying Ben is blameless, but let’s not act like everything else was clicking on all cylinders either.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 20, 2011 9:49 AM EST reply actions
NOT THE POINT
It’s not about whether or not CB could do better or which back up you would put in. . .instead it is that Ben was at greater risk b/c he couldn’t protect himself. Do you really think he is going to go to MT and say that he wants to come out of the game or that he doesn’t think it is a good idea for him to start the game. . .really?? Come on man! MT needs to step in and make the tough decision with his eye on the prize and sit him down so he can play like the BR we’ve come to know over the years and take us through a long run in January!
I CONCUR
The goal is to win the Super Bowl. The Steelers have been the 6, 1, and 3 seeds and went to the Super Bowl. I know that the number 1 seed was in their destiny. They can only do it with Ben. This is not in hindsight. Tomlin should have started Batch/Dixon and hope the defense “wins” the game. He should have pulled Ben after the 3rd quarter. Then Ben is in better shape for the PLAYOFFS and a stairway to seven~!
And the 49ers are right on our trail. They have 5 SBs. They are very beatable though,
with a healthy Ben, Troy and Woodley.
Who's laughing now, O Line??? Ben Roethlisberger (from the Podium) to his O-Line and the world in Superbowl XLIII
by SteeladyinVA on Dec 20, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
don't
forget an available Harrison
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 21, 2011 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
He should have played
If we won the game, number 1 seed looks nice right now with 2 teams that are down and out. 2 weeks of games where you can save some players with a 1st round bye and every game at home.
We lost, but guess what we are still in. Now there is no question you sit everyone with even a bump the next 2 weeks. I understand that a hot team going into the playoffs is key but for this team I feel a healthy team out weighs a “hot” team.
Basically we have a 2 bye weeks. See you January 7th or 8th.
You're Right
We should sit everyone with a bump or bruise, but that is not how MT works. . .if the doctor says they are physically able to play, they will be out there. . .nevermind if its significantly less than 100%
The 49ers were a tough team playing at home; you have to face the possibility that the Steelers may have lost last night regardless of who was starting at QB. The fact that it turned out to be a loss doesn’t automatically make it a wrong decision on the part of the coaching staff.
agree with this 100%....thought it was gonna be a loss going in...
Ben hurt…Pouncey out…Harrison out…west coast game on Mon Night Football, etc, etc….we REALLY needed the Planets to align just right for us to come away with a “W”…I’m actually surprised that the score wasn’t higher….special teams sucked….o-line had issues…turnovers….WOW…so glad Baltimore lost on Sunday because if they had won…….anyway the glass is still half full for us….now we need to heal and rest up and get ready for the playoffs!!!
I can resist everything but temptation.....
by the duchess of steel on Dec 20, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Wrong Notion
Its not the fact that we lost that makes it the wrong decision. . .rather it is the fact that he couldn’t protect himself that makes it the wrong decision. . .or the fact that they kept him in the entire game when it became quite apparent that we weren’t going to get it done today that made it a poor decision!
u are certainly entitled 2 ur opinion and hey anytime u want to jump in there and coach the team u go right ahead....
in the meantime I will keep the faith in Mike Tomlin!!!
I can resist everything but temptation.....
by the duchess of steel on Dec 20, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
I love this sediment. . .
So, let me see. . .MT is infallible b/c he is the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, right? I like MT and he is a pretty good coach. . .in fact, there is no one else I’d rather have right now but I think he needs to do more than let the doctor determine whether or not BR is going to play. . what about a determination about how well he feels he is capable of playing??? Oh. . .and I’m sorry. . .I didn’t get the memo that you are the only one that is entitled to give an opinion besides MT!
and I agree with his decision and you don't...yea I get that
my point is that armchair coaching is just that armchair…so please feel free to submit your resume to coach our team and thanks for sharing your opinion:)
I can resist everything but temptation.....
by the duchess of steel on Dec 20, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Armchair coaching. . .
there wouldn’t be a site if we all quit sharing our opinions. . .we all want the same thing and I guess we all get a little frustrated when the result is so undesirable with so much on the line especially when we feel like things could have been done a little differently. . .sorry duchess. . .didn’t mean to wrinkle your dress!
u didn't I totally understand where u r coming from...it's part of the sport to
try and run the team and say what we would or wouldn’t do…I just feel a little differently about this…Ben wanted to play and Coach agreed that he should play and he stayed on the field because he told Tomlin that he wanted the QB who started the game to be the same one to walk off the field after the game…he’s a Stud and he did not get hurt….my point was that the game was LOST long before the Steelers plane touched down in San Fran….but yea I know they still have to play the game…in my opinion the only way we were gonna win that game was if half the niners got knocked out in the 1st QTR!!!!
I can resist everything but temptation.....
by the duchess of steel on Dec 20, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Why is that the only way we are going to win???
Are you saying that we had too many key players out? Why do you believe this?? I agree with you. . .MT should be coaching. . .I just think the way this was handled shows us that our star QB has a little to much power and that MT needs to harness that a bit. . .the inmates can’t rule the assylum. . .Ben is always going to want to play and I think its up to the coach to exercise better discretion with his health and the big picture in mind- winning another SB!
Id take
a 60% healthy Ben over a 200% healthy Charlie Batch or Dennis Dixon.
"Leave the gun. Bring the Canolis."
by Paulie58 on Dec 21, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+7
I can resist everything but temptation.....
by the duchess of steel on Dec 21, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
How 'bout this
I’ll take a 100% CB now so we can have a 100% Ben when it matters most. . .in January!!!
My only question is this:
Why call 44 pass plays with a hobbled QB. It didn’t seem like the run was that unsuccessful.
"Hines always tells us he's trying to knock somebody's soul out of their body." - Ike Taylor
Oops, should be a question mark in there.
"Hines always tells us he's trying to knock somebody's soul out of their body." - Ike Taylor
How successful was the run?
We had 84 yards rushing on 19 carries, although the final rush was Ben’s near fumble on the last offensive play so we’ll disregard that one. 84 yards on 18 carries = 4.67 ypc
Sounds great right? Why didn’t we run the ball 35 times? We because the run for most of the night was either feast or famine. We have four rushes that accounted for 53 those yards (all in the second half) and of the 18 rushes in question:
- 12 of them went for 3 yards or less (67%)
- 10 of them went for 2 yards or less (56%)
- 8 of them went for 1 yard or less (44%)
Those are pathetic numbers and if 44% of your rushes are resulting in 1 yard or less, you’re offense is getting stalled out pretty quickly.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 20, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting
Thanks for breaking down the numbers. I guess my mind must have blocked out all those crappy runs and focused on the big ones in the second half. The offense stalled out pretty quickly with Ben throwing 3 picks as well. It was just a bad night all around losing to another Harbaugh.
"Hines always tells us he's trying to knock somebody's soul out of their body." - Ike Taylor
Get Mendy more involved in the pass game
Even if running the ball isn’t working, why not throw the ball to the RBs more instead? I think Mendenhall deserves more looks in the passing game. He is a very sure handed RB that has the ability to make big plays (even if he has been running sub par this year). There were several times where Mendy was wide open in the flats and could have at least moved the chains, one of which Ben threw a pick in the endzone. If Ben would suck up his ego and stop trying to go for the big play and check down occasionally he might cut down on those dumb picks and keep drives alive.
This decision speaks volumes about Tomlin
Basically, what was said (not in words but in actions) was that if the Doctor says BR can play, then he will play. In MT’s eyes, there is nothing else that goes into that decision. It doesn’t matter if he’s not 100% or if he can’t do the things that makes him great, or if resting BR would help to get him closer to 100% for a post season run (since we are already in the playoffs). It also shows that the tail wags the dog a bit here at least when it comes to playing time for our QB. I also find MT’s mantra of “next man up” and “the standard is the standard” to be a bit misleading at the very least b/c he shows no confidence in any other option at the QB position other than BR. This was very eye-opening to me!
I don't get it
If the Docs cleared Ben and Ben assured Tomlin that he was ok to go, why should we doubt his decision? Are you on the medical staff and know without a doubt that he could have further injured his ankle? I saw BB take some massive shots and get back up. I haven’t heard a return that his ankle is worse today or that he’s less likely to be healthy by playoff time.
Tomlin made the decision that Ben at 75 or 80% (or whatever level he was at) was more likely to win the game than Batch or Dixon. And don’t use Tomlin’s own mantra’s against him, guys play hurt all the time. That’s the way the game is played.
This is exactly the kind of hindsight reasoning that drives me nuts. If Ben wins the game hobbling on one leg, he’s a freaking warrior. A hero. A person we should all look up to and idolize. If however he plays in the same condition but doesn’t win, heads should roll. People should pack their bags and not even get to ride the plane back home. Absolutely ridiculous and makes me sad that we follow the same team and call each other fellow Steelers fans.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 20, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
WOW
Who died and put you in charge of Steelers Nation?? A lot to answer here. . .The doctor is only there to say if he is not going to further hurt it by playing not at what level he will perform. Do you really expect BR to tell MT that he is not ready to go?? Seriously?? I don’t think anyone is that Naive. It also shows that he has very little faith in CB. He looked gimpy in pregame which Steve Young pointed out on the broadcast and the 3 pics, and a fumble did nothing to discourage that line of thinking. . .don’t ya think?
Who died and put you in charge of questioning the doctors’ and MT’s decisions? Don’t you think they have about 1000 times more information that you do? Don’t you think they’ve seen CB every single day in practice and know what he’s capable of?
Were you also complaining about Ben going back into the game last week against Cleveland? B/c there’s no way that he was healthier in that game than he was against the Niners. He played a damn good defense that manhandled his offensive line all night long. Do you actually think Batch has a better game with that protection?
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 20, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn’t questioning the doctors, genius! I do think they have more information and that is my point. . .MT doesn’t use any of it except the Doctor whose job it is to say if he can play- not assess how well he’ll play or how well he’ll perform. So if they don’t have much faith in CB, then who is that an Indictment on? I’m not saying anything about CB’s game. . .I’m just saying that I would rather him or anyone else take the hits since, as Steve Young has said as well, he was unable to protect himself. At the very least, once it was apparent that our OL was being manhandled, as you pointed out, why not get him out of there and live to fight another game That has nothing to do with hindsightedness and everything to do with preservation!
MT doesn’t use any of it except the Doctor whose job it is to say if he can play- not assess how well he’ll play or how well he’ll perform.
And you know this for a fact based on what? You’re inside his head?
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 20, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
That is what he said on his press conference today in response to how he decides whether or not BR was going to play. . .in my head, come on. . .you’re the only legend- in your own mind in this blog. . .right average joe blow???
Did I say in your head?
No I said “inside his head.” As in you’re inside Tomlin’s head and privy to his thought and decision making process.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Well, like I said.. .
MT told us what is in his head at the news conference. . .so back to your question: that is how I know!
Why do you always decide to write stuff like this after we lose?
You’re one of the main posters who like to do it every time.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
It's legitimate to say that starting Ben in SF was a bad idea.
And not just because of the outcome, but mainly because we need him in good shape for the playoffs. Late in the 4th quarter, it was almost like we were trying to tell the world, “You might beat us but we won’t give you the satisfaction of pulling our stud QB, not even if he can barely walk.” This is known as cutting off your nose to spite your face.
EXACTLY!
If not sitting him then definitely getting him out of there once the outcome was no longer in question. . .once the turnovers began to multiply. . .he is our best chance of getting back to the promised land to face Green Bay once again! Let’s not be so narrow focused that we lose sight of the prize!
Who says Green Bay is a lock to make the SB, anyway? Another team gets a hot hand and the team representing the NFC may be wearing colors other than green and yellow.
I'd sooner get Flacco'd out here in the middle of nowhere than lose face in front of my friends and family.
by steeltech on Dec 20, 2011 6:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Good point
That was only my opinion. . .you’re right. . .it could be but the way I say it, after what I saw last night it is a two team race (GB and NO), the rest of the NFC is not in their league and GB has already beaten NO. . .just my opinion. . .While improved SF is still not ready. . .they had one good drive last night against a depleted Steelers team. Their 3 most impressive players in order were Aldon Smith, David Akers and last but not least Andy Lee!
Yes
GB already beat the Saints, but they were 100% then and the Saints have improved on the defensive side of the equation, where as GB has not. Also the injuries to GB O line may dictate how well they do. GB’s D is built to play with a lead, when they don’t have that teams can continue to run at them and destroy them
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 21, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
Great point
. . .But I think we can both agree that it will be either GB or the Saints. . .I see no one else remotely capable of hanging with either of those two teams in the NFC (although there are always teams like Seattle to produce the unspeakable upset like last year). . .
I do
agree it will be one of the two
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 21, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
my eyes
are sooooo wide right now!
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 21, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
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