Thoughts and Ramblings After A Brutal Steelers Week 15 Loss at San Francisco
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 9:24 AM EST
in Steelers Postgame Recap and Review
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We're a bit behind, thanks to a certain rewind function of NFL games not providing the Steelers game until today. We'll have stuff on the upcoming Rams game soon enough.
-neal
It was definitely a tough one to watch once, let alone twice. So many chances...so many miscues. The positive to take away from this is the score doesn't reflect the game play-by-play. San Francisco's a good team, and they deserved the win, but Pittsburgh wasn't far off many times from flipping the result the other way.
Let's dig into this:
- Fine, so the power goes out. It could be worse. Remember when ceiling tiles at the Kingdome in Seattle were falling? Then again, Trent Dilfer wasn't on hand during that incident, showing the public his vast medical knowledge.
- I wonder if I should take the fact ESPN showed 12 players as San Francisco's defensive starters to mean anything. Is there a reason they want to highlight rookie OLB Aldon Smith? Probably not, right?
- This 49ers defense reminds of the Saints in 2009. Go for the takeaway first, hit second, tackle third. It's kind of dangerous, but then again, it's how to get four takeaways in a game. They miss tackles on Mendenhall and Wallace that both led to big gains, but they stripped Mendenhall a split second after his knee was down and pick Roethlisberger off in the end zone.
- On that interception, it appears there's confusion between David Johnson and Wallace as far as the depth of their routes is concerned. It's the kind of throw you hope is made in practice so you can clear those kinds of misunderstandings up. But you also hope your quarterback practices during the week.
- It appears Johnson should be shallower, Wallace should be deeper and Ben never should have thrown the ball. Judging by the delay Wallace had in releasing off the line, I wonder if Johnson was supposed to cut underneath Wallace.
- Monday Night Football brings it back to even by only showing 10 of their offensive starters. Clear-cut proof for 49ers fans the Worldwide Leader doesn't consider Alex Smith to be a viable starting quarterback.
- John Harbaugh's contribution to this game? Cut blocking. If the Ravens brought in outside consultants to teach the coaches how to teach their offensive line to do that, I hope they didn't spend more than $49.95 on them. "You see 98? I want you to get a running start and dive at his legs." Boom. Done. Bill is in the mail.
- It took Jason Worilds all of seven plays to get hooked. And it was by a tight end, no less. On two running plays toward Worilds, LT Joe Staley dropped into a pass blocking technique, suckering Worilds well into the backfield, and TE Vernon Davis simply got himself between Worilds and the ball carrier.
- In fact, as the game goes on, Worilds is becoming less and less of a factor. They're blocking him with Davis or Delanie Walker, but it may as well be Anthony Munoz. Worilds ain't movin'.
- Give some credit to Smith, he may not be firing bullets all over the field and racking up 330+ yards in passing a game, but he's hitting some well-timed precision targets. The throw to Crabtree near the end zone was a great read by him, and thrown with enough zip it arrives in time before Troy Polamalu can take it back for six.
- I'll bet Michael Crabtree looks at the Packers style of offense and drools. He's way too talented to be playing in one of the only run-first offenses in football. Ike Taylor is a big and physical cornerback. Crabtree is one of the few receivers I've ever seen Ike hit and not knock down hard.
- What a great game from Ryan Clark. Maybe he ate his Wheaties that morning, but he recognized so many plays in run support, he was largely the reason the 49ers did not rush for as many yards as they typically do.
- It's really too bad this loss likely puts the Steelers at Denver in the first round of the playoffs - a place where Clark isn't likely to play. Clark has a blood condition that is adversely affected by high altitude. He had his spleen and gall bladder removed after the condition flared up during a game in Denver in 2007. He did not play there in 2009.
- The Steelers second offensive drive of the game is one that will give coach Mike Tomlin and offensive coordinator Bruce Arians indigestion. The playcalling was perfect, and San Francisco gets bailed out of several probable touchdown plays by Steelers miscues.
- Look at the sequence of plays: 1st-and-10: Mendenhall four yard run. 2nd-and-6: Roethlisberger overthrows a wide open Mike Wallace (should have been a TD). 3rd-and-6: Roethlisberger fails to lead Brown on a drag route that would have netted big yards. Brown turns back to make a great catch, uses his balance and speed and is able to pick up the first down. 1st-and-10: Mendenhall four yard run, shows great patience and vision against a dominant run defense. 2nd-and-6: Mendenhall seven yard run, Miller lead-blocks for him and does an excellent job picking up the pursuing linebacker. If he fails to get him, it's third down. 1st-and-10: Roethlisberger threads the needle on what was easily his best throw of the night. It splits the converging defenders, and is right on Brown's hands. With only the slow-footed Donte Whitner between he and the end zone, there's little doubt Brown scores on that play. Except, he fails to catch the ball (should have been a TD). 2nd-and-10: Ben has as clean a pocket as he'll ever have, and more than enough time to make a good read and throw. Instead, he misses Miller badly 15 yards down the field, and gets picked off for the second time in two drives.
- For anyone saying San Francisco's defense dominated that game, watch that drive. It's not often you see two blown chances for 60+ yard touchdowns in seven plays. I'm slamming my head on the keyboard as I type this.
- Davis is a big boy, I get that, but you gotta take him down, don't you, Cortez? I mean, you almost pants-ed him for cripessake.
- If San Francisco ends up playing Green Bay in the playoffs, you will see that play-fake double-move throw to Crabtree. Guaranteed. It burned Ike Taylor, it can burn either Tramon Williams or Charles Woodson, with as aggressive as all three of those cornerbacks are. San Francisco set that up beautifully. Poor pass by Smith.
- Something that's been lost in all of this is how effective Mendenhall has been as both a runner and a receiver the last few games. You can tell he's fresh and rested. I'll bet he gets 20+ carries Saturday, especially if Pouncey returns to the lineup. I'll bet he fumbles too. He's carrying the ball way too high when he's in space. It's as if he feels his knee or hip will pop the ball out of his arm if he makes a move. Don't think for a second St. Louis isn't watching that right now.
- I hate to break it to Jon Gruden, but rules for chop blocks are different in run situations and pass situations. If it was a running play, what Gore did was legal. Since it was a pass, and Hood was engaged with an offensive player, he cannot chop him. Valid penalty.
- Without an end zone camera replay, it's harder to see, but Hood stunts to Hampton's outside on a delayed blitz. Goodwin, the center, initially blocks Hampton, but when Hood stunts, he passes Hampton off and picks up Hood. Pretty much at the same time, Gore lunges at Hood's legs. The rule states in a passing situation, when a defensive player is engaged with an offensive player above the waist, a second offensive player cannot block him from the thigh down. Goodwin probably should have known Gore was in protection on that play.
- As for the one on Redman...It's close, my guess would be they're calling it a "lure." Smith broke off Starks' block, and Redman stepped up to engage him. He blocks him low, and, only going off what could have been the official's interpretation of the play, since Starks is still pursuing Smith, Redman is "luring" him, making it illegal. My issue is Smith isn't anywhere near Starks when Redman first dives at him. The rule is Starks has to still be in a "pass blocking stance." Not sure how you pass block when a guy is behind you.
- What's interesting - outside the fact two chop block penalties were called in the same game - it doesn't seem either of them were the fault of the player on which the penalty was called.
- Andy Lee...6th round pick. You see what I'm gettin' at?
- I hope the Steelers got the full use out of that timeout in the locker room at halftime. Maybe they plugged it into Candlestick's power supply or something. Definitely didn't need it at the end of the half though.
- Week 15 edition of Why I Love Antonio Brown: He's a second-year receiver, and most receivers that age need to be taught body control, footwork and route-running. Antonio Brown needs to be taught why, after making a sensational catch, he needs to hold onto the ball with both hands in order to give him time to get his second foot down. It may have been a rightly called incomplete pass, but the fact he even made that play reviewable is amazing in and of itself.
- Really wish he didn't drop that pass in the first half though.
- On the 49ers play-action throwback to Davis on the backside, Williams smashes into Polamalu about 13 yards off the line of scrimmage in the middle of the field. Polamalu was starting to break over toward the ball, which was in the air. I'd call that pass interference, but only if Polamalu, or maybe two other players in the game, had been the ones hit.
- Before we start getting after Timmons for that play, let's keep that in mind. Polamalu was prevented from making a play, and somehow, it was missed by the back judge.
- Since that topic came up...I'm sorry, I'm not trying to make an issue with the officiating, but I really hope Tomlin calls the league up and asks for an explanation as to how THIS was missed:
- I'm sure there are others, too, 49ers fans. I don't care. You won the game, leave us alone.
- I mentioned Andy Lee, right? Yeah...6th round. From Pitt. Was 34-year-old Chris Gardocki solid enough to make us not look Lee's way in 2004? Is that what happened?
- If Whitner has any pass coverage instincts, you could have added two more interceptions onto the pile of turnovers. Two errant passes fell at his feet, and he looked like he didn't even notice. Just sayin'...
- Aldon Smith pushed Max Starks back into Roethlisberger as if he was a blocking sled on that fumble. Max got in his way, which was about it. A healthy Roethlisberger, though, easily escapes that situation, and doesn't stand a foot away from a defender.
- By the way, for all you Tuck Rule enthusiasts, Roethlisberger did pump the ball, and as he was struggling to stay up, he brought the ball back into his body. It was there the ball was knocked out of his hand. Valid fumble.
- As for Timmons shameful act of "leaping," as I understand it, if he jumps at the kick, he must start no more than a yard off the line of scrimmage. This rule just seems stupid. It seems to be the right call, but one in which everyone who heard and witnessed it lost something.
- No more about the officiating. It doesn't matter. The Steelers had multiple opportunities to win this game, and despite outplaying San Francisco in many areas of the game, they got beat 20-3.
- That's how you define one team making big plays and one team missing out on them.
- On to St. Louis...
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Max Starks
Starks got flat out dominated the whole game. He was dealing with one hell of a pass rusher though. Starks play was also made more noticeable because Ben couldn’t leave the pocket when it collapsed, and that really hurt us.
+1
It’s sort of a chicken vs. the egg thing though. Do we not notice Starks’ failures as much if Ben can scramble, or was this an isolated incident.
To me, he got whipped multiple times by the second coming of Demarcus Ware. If I’m a 49ers fan, I’m screaming at the top of my lungs “why does he only play 2/3rds of our defensive plays?!?”
I don’t care what your defense is, you get that kid on the field. I didn’t think there was a rival to Von Miller for Defensive Rookie of the Year. I was wrong.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Our DC said he is not yet ready to drop in coverage when needed.
Given our new coaches body of work this year, I would trust him.
Thinking that most of us, fans, scratched our head during the draft day…
and Essex was alongside Starks - it's like Starks was eating for 2, dig? Essex is a backup's backup
I pledge allegiance to the Terrible Towel and the only team in America, and to the franchise for which it stands, one nation under Rooney, indivisible, with the ability to crush you all.
"He was popping off down there the first time they were about to score. So you run your mouth, expect to get something. Everything's between the lines, so he got what he had coming. He was running his mouth and getting in the way of the train, and the train wasn't coming off the track."
-James Harrison on Kyle Orton
what the eff is up with this double posting?
I pledge allegiance to the Terrible Towel and the only team in America, and to the franchise for which it stands, one nation under Rooney, indivisible, with the ability to crush you all.
"He was popping off down there the first time they were about to score. So you run your mouth, expect to get something. Everything's between the lines, so he got what he had coming. He was running his mouth and getting in the way of the train, and the train wasn't coming off the track."
-James Harrison on Kyle Orton
Pouncey injury
If Pouncey plays, I bet Starks gets more help. It was similar to the KC game.
Nice analysis and rec'd.
This was just one of those games where almost everything seemed to go wrong. If a WR was open for a sure TD, Ben either didn’t see the guy, overthrew him or he dropped the ball.
I’ll grant that SF is a solid team but, give us a healthy Ben and a healthier OL and I don’t think we’d have too much trouble beating the 49ers. IMO, they don’t have the offense to hang with Green Bay, the Saints or the best AFC teams.
don’t have the offense
I will agree that our offense isnt the strength of this team it clearly is the defense and special teams (field position), what the offense does do well in ball control and not creating turn overs. The problem with the statement “they don’t have the offense to hang with Green Bay, the Saints or the best AFC teams.” is that we have already played 2 of the “best AFC teams” and are 1-1 with the short turn around going to baltimore IMO the biggest factor in that loss. The Saints dont play well outside of there domes and certainly will have a difficult time if they have to come to SF and play. It will be hard for Drew Brees to throw for 400 yards while he sits on the sideline and watches his defense play. The key to being able to defeat NO and GB if we should have to travel to both locations will be the ability to get 1st downs and limit the amount of 3 and outs. People talk about how many yards we give up each week and that number alone keeps our defense rank down but what they fail to mention in those sentances is the fact that we have allowed the fewest points in the league and we lead the league in turn overs. Which would you rather have a team that doesnt give up a lot of yards but gets burned for 24+ points a game from things such as short fields and offensive turn overs, or a team that gives up yards but is stingy on points allowed and pulls out a turnover in the red zone more times then not? I am confident in our abiltiy to play playoff football and in the words of your head coach “Play 49er Football” thats what its always about trying to get the opposing team to play your style of football and control the game. It wasnt that long ago that Big Bens main task was to not lose the game and rely on the defense to keep it close.
by LongDistance9ersFan on Dec 21, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
true u beat us..
I like you to see you beat us with a healthy BB!
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
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by nycsteelerfan on Dec 21, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Our best defensive player was out.
Nobody is 100% at this time of the year.
While he may be your best player, and I totally disagree with using Ben’s ankle as an excuse, missing a LB is NOTHING like missing a quarterback.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
I did not notice Steelers missing a quarterback.
There was some dude in Steeler’s uniform on the field, throwing some rather nice ball. Most of the time. ;)
Correct. But, your response to nyc mentioning “healthy BB” was “our best defensive player was out”
Now, lets say the BB excuse was valid, you coming back with the thing about WIllis implies that those would be equal.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Yes, I was implying that both teams are not 100%
But Ben was on the field making plays, so it is no excuse in my mind.
Steelers were
also missing their top pass rusher and starting center. No excuses, just so’s ya know.
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 21, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Missed the point
My point was that the original comment stated we dont need the offense to keep up with the GREAT TEAMS. We can play a smart ball control game and win with defense and not making errors. Last I checked we still have an 11-3 record good enough for second place in all the NFL right now without that high profile offense. We dont play a high profile flying down the field offense and I am ok with that as long as it produces wins. As far as you not having a healthy quarterback well that was your teams decision to play him not ours and sounds a bit like making excuses, instead you can just nod your head and acknowledge a hard fought defensive battle that was played well by the 49ers and if we see you again this season I think we would both agree it was a successful year.
by LongDistance9ersFan on Dec 21, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
You can't win in today's NFL unless your offense is a team strength.
Your defense isn’t good enough to hold down the score against Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees in a must-win game. And you don’t have the offense to play catch-up.
- Mendy absolutely gets careless with the ball too often. I get so nervous anytime he’s around defenders trying to make them miss b/c the ball is always in one hand at least six inches away from his body.
- On the timeout at the end of the second half, I live in Dallas and the Cowboys just went through a very similar situation a couple weeks ago. It took almost a week to get somewhat of an explanation but it was basically decided that since the offense was in the “hurry up” and Romo was calling the plays, it was primarily his responsibility to call the timeouts vs. spike the ball or call another play. I obviously don’t know if we have the exact same structure in this situation but Ben certainly seems like the kind of veteran, on-field leader that such a responsibility would be left to. Not saying we should all pile on Ben but it’s probably at least 50% his fault there, if not much more.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 10:16 AM EST reply actions
I think it was his ankle or foot.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Dec 21, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Dwyer will miss the rest of the season with a left foot injury
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Dec 21, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
I thought Cortez Allen made a nice tackle for a rookie out of citadel on one of the best TE ,in the NFL. Davis may have got the extra yard he needed for the first, but he didn’t get far. At least he wrapped him up as well as he could and didn’t just go in head first and bounce off, then watch Davis run for 10 more yards.
yea it's probably fair to say that he's never seen a physical specimen like Davis
His size and athleticism is pretty rare
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Not only that
but Davis gets nearly pantsed a lot.
We like the guy, but we see way too much of his butt crack. He’s a millionaire; surely he has the resources to obtain a belt.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
come on man, you clearly know how to keep it gangsta
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Cortez will be a good corner for us but that was a poor tackle. When a guy outweighs you by 50 or 60 lbs, you hit him at the knees or below. Cortez hit him above the waist and was lucky to slow him down as much as he did.
Speak of which
Troy blew up Davis a couple times, once with a diving missile hit low, and another time with the Tarzan leap where he just swung around the guy like a flagpole before pulling him down.
Speaking as a 49er fan, I gotta say: Having never seen Troy play in person before, the cameras don’t do him justice. He’s phenomenal.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
True
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
Offense
Please get a new OC next year; with talented players like Ben, AB, MW, Mendy, Heath etc, THIS SHOULD BE A TOP 5 OFFENSE EVERY YEAR in Scoring and yards. WAY more talent than NE overall, but look at the difference in production. KC only 13 pts, Cleveland 14 pts, and so on. This offense for years has greatly underproduced. Imagine Belichick with this team.
You're insane
You realized they had 400 yards on Monday, right? They left probably another 200 on the field due to lack of execution.
That’s easily Arians’ best game this year. The lack of points is in no way attributable to him.
I flat-out can’t believe there is this much disdain for the guy. I am not a card-carrying member of the Bruce Arians fan club, I’m just saying he called a great game. I typically find little fault with him, but there are exceptions here and there.
No way do those exceptions cost him his job. Watch the game again.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
everyone's gotta have a scape goat,
For some reason, there are fans who think every loss should be immediately followed by a firing and an impalled head on a stick for all to see. And we’re considered by and large an intelligent fan base……
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
I can’t say I understand it either. I guess everyone needs a scapegoat. The more familiar the scapegoat the better I guess
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
by FrankWyt on Dec 21, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
The Steelers were moving the ball pretty well against one the best defenses in a prime time away game.
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
One thing I do have a problem with though, and obviously I know the line situation etc, is that I really thought this would be a top five offense. I wouldn’t say that’s on Arians (or better yet, not all on him) but I really expected more from the O this year. Teams like the Broncos, Dolphins, and Vikings all score more points per game than we do.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
this is just a thought and I haven't done any research to back it up
But I’d love to see something like first half scoring or scoring through the first three quarters, b/c I feel like there are plenty of games where we build a lead then just go into a shell and become ultra conservative. Not saying that’s something to hang your hat or anything but I feel like MT’s “style points don’t matter” might play into our second half offense at times when we have the lead.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
You make a valid point.I have had that thought as well, but I don’t know why you wouldn’t just keep putting points on the board till they have no life left. But whatever gets wins is alright with me.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Maybe I can do some holiday research and see when we score the greatest percentage of points
maybe not…..who knows
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Frank
One thing I do have a problem with though, and obviously I know the line situation etc, is that I really thought this would be a top five offense. I wouldn’t say that’s on Arians (or better yet, not all on him) but I really expected more from the O this year. Teams like the Broncos, Dolphins, and Vikings all score more points per game than we do.
I think this is a fair statement. I will say, though, giving an offense time to gel and to develop a bit of cohesion is important too. Antonio Brown barely played last year. Cotchery is brand new. We’ve had three different players at each offensive line position. Johnson wasn’t the second tight end last year, Saunders didn’t even play the game of football last year.
That doesn’t explain why bad teams outscore the Steelers. Outside of the obvious “the Steelers aren’t playing from behind and gunning the ball deep all the time,” I would point to a quarterback who doesn’t complete a great percentage of deep passes, and a running back who, strangely, only had two runs of 20 yards or more this year.
Our kicker also sucks, not sure if you’ve noticed that. We’re dead last in the NFL at 73.1 percent.
Hmmm…should probably write something on that. Thank you, Frank, I haven’t been up writing since 4 a.m. or anything.
We’re not quite getting enough explosive plays to get that extra field goal a game.
If I’m taking your statement literally, though, there’s barely any difference in scoring per game between the Dolphins, Broncos, Vikings and Steelers. I get what you mean, though, just pointing out they don’t have any real advantage. It’s a point or two here and there.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Our kicker also sucks, not sure if you’ve noticed that.
Nope, hadn’t noticed.
Yeah, I realize it’s very close with the teams I mentioned. I guess my point is that they shouldn’t be near us. There is an almost 200 point difference between us and the Packers. I see the players we have, and I don’t see why that gap can’t be…maybe 20-50 pts?
I get the gel part, but there are teams that have had to use multiple quarterbacks (Eagles, Texans, Raiders for instance) that have scored considerably more points. I just expected more I guess. But again, wins are what matters.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
I see the players we have, and I don’t see why that gap can’t be…maybe 20-50 pts?
I can find ya 20 points easy in missed field goals, elections to not kick field goals, an injured quarterback (San Francisco and Cleveland) and the Baltimore Ravens and Houston Texans.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
yards are a worthless stat in a loss
I look at the play selection by Arians and just want to scream. Ben is injured and can’t put a lot behind his passes. WHY WOULD YOU CONSTANTLY ATTEMPT TO THROW DEEP??? We have talented fast receivers. We have shown that AB and MW can take a 4 yard pass and turn it into a 15 yard gain. I think most of us would prefer a 200 yard passing game and a win… kinda like the 49’ers did.
The running game appeared relatively effective on Monday, but occasionally we would lose 3 yards on a first down run. Rather than try to get a quick 6 or 7 yards on 2nd down and another 6 or 7 yards on 3rd down, BA would call a play trying to get 15 yards on 2nd down. SURPRISE!!!! Ben is injured and having a hard time standing in the pocket and waiting for a complicated play to develop.
These statistics are great when you win, but are meanlingless in a loss. We are taking too many unneccessary chances and getting poor results out of it. Our offense is most dynamic when Ben is running the hurry up offense. I would prefer to see Ben running the majority of the calls on the field. I think the Steelers need to get a dedicated fullback and call runs AND passes with a fullback on the field.
I would prefer to see Ben running the majority of the calls on the field.
Why do you think that bubble screen pops up so much? Or certain plays that we see at least 5-10 of every week? Those are the plays he wants.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Yep, I'd wager that Ben called plays much more often in this game than normal
We ran no huddle quite a bit in the second half.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Notice how it led to 3 points?
Definitely justifies giving Arians the ax and letting our 28 year old quarterback call the shots.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
yea for sure
please let title your next article be…. “Ben fires BA and names himself OC”
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
yards are a worthless stat in a loss
I’m only using it to point out to you they moved the ball pretty well. I’m pretty sure Arians didn’t tell Ben to throw two interceptions inside their 20 yard line, which is far more the reason Pittsburgh only scored 3 points than anything Arians did.
WHY WOULD YOU CONSTANTLY ATTEMPT TO THROW DEEP???
Cuz his receivers were constantly getting open deep. If Ben said he could play, then Ben needs to go out there and play. If they’re gonna dilute the playbook because he’s hurt, then he shouldn’t be in there. That’s what “the standard is the standard” means.
We have shown that AB and MW can take a 4 yard pass and turn it into a 15 yard gain.
I saw Brown drop a 10 yard pass that would have gone for 60. I saw Ben decide not to throw a four yard pass to Brown, instead he heaved it into a crowded area and got picked off. I saw Wallace take a short pass for good yardage, and it was called back on a penalty.
I think most of us would prefer a 200 yard passing game and a win… kinda like the 49’ers did.
So you’re saying if we gain LESS yards, our chances for winning increase? Interesting philosophy.
I would prefer to see Ben running the majority of the calls on the field.
Yeah, he did a great job of leading the offense at the end of the first half.
I think the Steelers need to get a dedicated fullback and call runs AND passes with a fullback on the field.
We should definitely ensure we take our playmakers off the field as often as possible. Wallace and Brown would be great as stand-alone receivers while we make the emphasis of our offense on something we don’t do the best.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
I support this message....
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Neal, I respectfully disagree with your reply. First and foremost, the 49’ers won the game with substantially less yardage than the Steelers. My point is that I would prefer the win as opposed to a 400 yard offense. You can twist that any way you want, but the point is that they won with less yardage. Putting up tons of yards doesn’t win games.
- It doesn’t matter if the receivers are open deep, it seemed fairly obvious throughout the night that Ben couldn’t get the ball to them. It seems counter intuitive to me that we would keep calling plays that the QB can’t make. If he can’t throw it deep, it really doesn’t matter how wide open they are. Maybe if all the receivers weren’t running deep routes, there would be more opportunities to complete a short pass.
- Play clock mgmt at the end of the first half was very poor and Ben is to blame. I admit that. However, the rest of the game was marked by poor offensive play calling by BA. It all comes back to my 2nd point here… if Ben can’t make the deep throw, STOP CALLING IT!!! Either replace Ben or call plays that he is able to make.
- I agree that running the ball isn’t our strong point. My argument is that we need to make an effort to improve the run game. We need to be able to run and pass out of the same formations, which makes it harder for defenses to adjust based upon our personnel.
My point is that I would prefer the win as opposed to a 400 yard offense. You can twist that any way you want, but the point is that they won with less yardage. Putting up tons of yards doesn’t win games.
No, I understand what you’re saying. My point is you cannot tell me there’s a direct correlation between less passing yards and victory. I’m not trying to twist anything around, but you are essentially saying if we would have planned for less passing yards, we would have won.
I think what you mean, based on your original comment, is if they would have worked a more higher-percentage throwing plan, they would have had more success.
I’m not sure how I feel about that, considering I would think any quarterback seeing a receiver open 40 yards down the field will throw to that receiver, and Smith, despite making some big throws in big moments, only completed 58 percent of his passes, and only had 6 yards per attempt.
The difference is, Smith got to work with four takeaways, which are not the fault of the coordinator.
if Ben can’t make the deep throw, STOP CALLING IT!!! Either replace Ben or call plays that he is able to make.
If they felt they had an advantage between our receivers and their defensive backs, then I don’t care if you missed four of them, if that fifth one is open, you have to take it. Wallace was open twice deep. To me, that suggests odds are good Wallace will be open a third time deep. If he connects on one of those throws, it’s a totally different ball game. Ben just couldn’t make it happen.
You’re acting as if they threw 15 deep passes. It was like four or five, with two of those coming when we were down 20-3 in the second half.
We need to be able to run and pass out of the same formations, which makes it harder for defenses to adjust based upon our personnel.
Agreed, and we’ve done that. Redman only gets carries now on passing downs because they use him to block more often than Mendenhall. They’re running out of a passing formation any time Redman gets the ball now.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
49rs gained about 10 yards on each punt/kickoff exchange.
That’s like free 100 yards a game. Hidden yardage that is reflected in the score.
No wonder Jim singled out our punter in a postgame pep-speech.
He Didn't Say
Less yards increases chance of winning. He said most of us would have a win instead of a 400 yard day (and a loss).
Name me one person on here who'd rather have 400 yards and a loss than 200 yards and a win?
Cuz I’ll boot their ass out of here.
That’s the most obvious statement made yet, and it didn’t need to be said. It goes a lot deeper than that, don’t you think?
My point is (for the third time now) there is no correlation between lower amounts of passing yards and wins. Because there isn’t, I fail to see the purpose of bringing it up as if there is.
If Ben only had 200 passing yards, we would not have won the game. If Ben had three less interceptions, and 200 passing yards, we may have won the game.
I am simply using yards as a way to empirically show we had some success as an offense. I also pointed out the much larger failures, which is really turning the ball over. That’s the reason we lost. Not the coordinator.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Why Don't You.....
Just boot my ass out of here then. I get tired of all the threats of shit like that.
Free speech is a God given right.
People are entitled to an opinion. While you mostly do a great job writing your articles, that does not mean that everything you think is arbitrary.
If it doesn’t matter, then why did you feel it necessary to highlight what spoon said? Because you wanted to take some pot shots at him. It was obvious what he meant. Nice superior dance.
I shall await my banishment, oh powerful one. The world shall end for me if I don’t get your approval.
By the way
I happen to agree with you, I just don’t like seeing somebody get picked apart for having an opinion.
I don’t think the “boot their ass out of here” statement was true. It seems to me it was said in jest.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Dec 21, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Your freedom of speech ensures the government cannot censor what you say. I’m neither censoring nor am I an agent of the federal government.
Let’s dial it down a few notches. What I wrote about banning people was tongue-in-cheek. My point was I feel anyone who honesty wants 400 yards and a loss over 200 yards and a win isn’t someone I want to hear from.
However, I can see how my statement can be taken the wrong way, and that’s my fault, so I will give myself a punishment of 10 push-ups.
(that’s a joke too. I don’t do push-ups)
As it is, if he has an opinion, he’s perfectly welcome to post that. if I or anyone else disagrees with that opinion, we/they have the opportunity to state that in the same space. That includes you and I. So his right to post it is not in any way diminished by my disagreement of it. I didn’t erase anything, I didn’t tell him he’s no longer allowed to post, so you have a tough time trying to tell me I’m in any way preventing his opinion.
And if you disagree with my opinion, that’s fine. I don’t care, but that’s fine. I didn’t erase your comment either.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Neal, my comment was directed at your statement that this might have been one of BAs better games, because we had 400 yards offense. My point (for the third time now) is that it is obvious that Ben struggled to throw deep. Ben threw the interceptions, I understand that. However, BA called for those long pass plays that Ben couldn’t complete. The blame is on Ben for throwing them, I get that. But why continue to call plays were there is a low percentage of completion? When it became obvious that his long throws were inaccurate, why in the world would they continue calling plays with long routes?
My argument is that we should have made changes faster. We should have realized much earlier in the game (or much earlier in the week) that Ben didn’t have control over the long balls. We shouldn’t have had ANY receiver running 20+ yards down the field on a route. All the receivers should have run short to intermediate routes, where there was a higher probability of success. I would rather get 5 yards per play continually rather than have 19 passes intercepted or incomplete and 1 pass for 25 yards.
IIRC, the reason some of the deep passes did not work
was that BB overthrew MW. To me, if he overthrows his WR, then he can make the throw, it is just the timing was off. Maybe it had something to do with his ankle, maybe not. The last pick was on a deep pass, but I blame MW’s lack of effort to prevent that as much as BB’s throw. Here again, maybe he had a Flaccovision of MW coming back for the ball and getting a PI called.
Things can always be worse....
We'll agree to disagree
I watched all of Ben’s passes, and to be honest, some were really good, some were really bad.
For me, I’m gonna give Ben the benefit of the doubt on a per-down basis. If he missed it once or twice, I like his chances of hitting it a third time, even if, like Monday, he fails that third time as well.
But why continue to call plays were there is a low percentage of completion? When it became obvious that his long throws were inaccurate, why in the world would they continue calling plays with long routes?
Play calls are often given to the quarterback as a list of priority throws. You have an intended receiver, but since there’s more than one receiver in a pattern, he has multiple options. I think you’re taking the call itself too literally.
It’s not “Throw To Wallace Deep,” but Wallace gong deep is one of a few options the QB has. Regardless of Ben’s health, Wallace’s strength in the deep ball. If he isn’t ever running deep, those shorter, high-percentage throws become considerably harder because the defense knows you aren’t going to throw it deep.
You’re gonna run about 55-70 plays in a game. Not all of them have to be successful. Some are like sacrifice bunts; they set up the next play while taking a loss. If he doesn’t show he can throw deep, you’ve got two safeties six yards off the line. How do you work a passing game then?
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
What?!?!
I thought the play calls in the huddle were something like “Wallace Deep” or “Brown across the middle”
I just wish we called more touchdown plays instead of just gain lots of yards plays.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 22, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
The most important statistic in the NFL is turnovers. When you lose that battle 4-0. You’re not going to win often, especially against a good team. I’m pretty certain Arians didn’t throw any interceptions.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Dec 21, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
I would say Arians did a better job
than usual.
One thing this game showed though was that they need more short passes to Mendenhall. It’s a good checkdown play, and he’s got the abilities to make something of it. He did as well as any RB this season against the Niners defense.
Great write-up Neal: one thing though with the Saints comparison- it’s not that the Niners defense is always going for the strip, it’s that Haralyson and Brooks are not great tacklers.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
You have a point
Neither Ben nor Arians have ever heard of it, but it’s been rumored around the league, spoken only of in quiet whispers behind closed doors, to be a successful strategy.
Every time I see an empty backfield for the Steelers, I yell at the tv “you have one of the best receiving backs in the league!”
So, as you may surmise, I yell at the television a lot.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
And you see how well that works when they lean on it, right?
It’s not hard to stop that. Did you notice how San Diego would just crash the end on Rice’s side and smash into him before he could release?
Flacco didn’t have his blankie to comfort him, and he got mauled throughout the second half.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Please help me understand...
while I may be a little more BA negative than you, I wouldn’t consider myself a hater either. Yet…how can we have a top 5 QB, a top 5 RB (previous 2 years), maybe the most dangerous receiving group in the league, the best all-around TE and be ranked number 22 in scoring offense?? Yet we are ranked number 12 in total yards, #9 in yards/play, #8 in first downs, #7 in time of possesion. Are you going to put all of that on the OL?
And OK, we had 400+ yards and scored 3 points? Just bad luck? I don’t mean to be argumentative, but there must be a reason why we appear so inept near the goal line?
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo (1970)
I think
turnovers really stop the Offenses ability to score
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 21, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Well…those turnovers wouldn’t happen if Arians hadn’t called “the turnover play”, now would they?
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
correct sir
Arians is a dick
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 21, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
We had 400+ yards....that's right
But we didn’t fail near the goal line. Hell we never got close the goal line. We had 400+ yards because we started inside our 20 on almost every drive. That was the Niners gameplan and they executed it to perfection.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 22, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Loss
The Steelers lost because the QB could not step into his throws and was wildly inaccurate on at least 10 throws, 2 of which were picked.
That begs the question...
should he have been playing?
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo (1970)
Why draft Andy Lee
When we got Bo Lacy, Nathaniel Adibi, and Matt Kranchick?
I’m always a big proponent of holding onto late draft picks and finding guys like Antonio Brown and Brett Keisel. However, it doesn’t make sense to keep them every year, because you end up with too many people you don’t need, like those guys I listed above. I hope they do that this year, because I think we really need a few instant starters to have success next year (see LG and ILB).
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
I agree
They need to package some late round picks, move up to select a few sure-thing guys, fill those holes, and not cut as many talented developmental prospects simply because they don’t have room on the roster.
And yes, get a punter. Andy Lee has quietly been the secret to a lot of San Francisco’s success this year. Sepulveda was good, but injuries may have cut his career short.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
would
rather they stick with Kapinos at punter, he is pretty solid, and get a kicker and QB in the late rounds
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 21, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
I'm hoping Coach Tomlin addressess a couple of issues...
…1) Wallace – may no longer be a “one trick pony”, but he better start being more than a parade horse on the field and start defending when interecptions occur; on one play, he literally just stopped, and watched as the defender ran on by
2) Mendenhall – I was quite pleased with his running, given our OL and SF’s rush defense, but the way he just swings that ball around as he runs, he’s just asking for a defender to take it away.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Wallace
On one of the deep TD passes he made no attempt to fight for the ball, especially with two defenders around him. He was just waiting for the ball to land in his hands.
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
Wallace
Wallace is going to get an earful watching film this week. I can’t believe there is no mention of him in this post. I saw it twice where he didn’t even change his course on two long throws. Its almost as if he can’t run and play football at the same time. He’s improved on his short routes, but he is getting worse at reading and reacting to long throws. Some of that is on Ben, who has never really thrown a nice ball on longer throws.
by ballparkfranks on Dec 21, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
I didn't mention him because they were poor passes
Wallace got open on the outside, Ben threw it to the inside. The defender had position the whole way, and regardless to what seems to be popular opinion here, even Mike Wallace won’t be able to clear the defensive back and make a play on the ball.
There was nothing he could do. Keep in mind too, Wallace is about 6-foot-1. A.J. Green can maybe go get that. Not Wallace.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
You make a good point
Is it safe to say that Wallace is not that good in grabbing jump passes? I not saying he sucks because of that, maybe it’s just not his forte.
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
It at least doesn't seem to be
I don’t recall any Swann-like catches he’s made. He’s doing fine with what he has, obviously, and it’d be nice if he really could battle for those balls, but the dude’s like a buck 85, soaking wet. The defensive back more often than not will just be stronger than he is.
I’m not gonna get into the perceived lack of effort after interceptions because I’m crabby after writing 5,000 words in the last six hours, but he just sprinted down the field, and to stop and start sprinting again when all that’s likely to come from it is for him to be completely destroyed by a linebacker cracking back on him is a bit unfair for us to ask.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
PI
Well, he’ll never get a pass interference call if he runs away from contact. The most glaring one for me was not the interception, but a ball thrown to the endzone where there were 2 SF defenders. Any receiver with a nose for the football, changes his angle and makes an attempt for that ball. I actually really like Wallace, but he has to improve in this area. I also am willing to pin some blame on Ben. He consistantly has been throwing uncatchable deep balls to open receivers, even when he isn’t hurt. Watch some of the other QBs in this league and you see nice spirals that float to the area the receiver is running toward. Ben tries to muscle the ball, and gets poor rotation which results in poor accuracy and inconsistant ball flight. I also really like Ben, so don’t take this as a Ben bashing.
I simply think we are too focused on trying to force the long ball with players that don’t really excel at that. Those two sidline passes to Miller and Cotchery were things of beauty, and should be our focus over chucking bombs when the game dictates getting the sure chunks of yardage.
by ballparkfranks on Dec 21, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Well, he’ll never get a pass interference call if he runs away from contact.
That’s a fair point.
Any receiver with a nose for the football, changes his angle and makes an attempt for that ball. I actually really like Wallace, but he has to improve in this area.
I’ve been trying to be subtle about this, but I’ve been saying this for a while now; Mike Wallace is not the great receiver people think he is. He is a great deep threat, but look at the great receivers in the league: Fitzgerald, both Johnsons, Gronkowski…these guy are MASSIVE, and they play like it.
I’m not saying Wallace isn’t a huge benefit to the offense, what I’m saying is he’s not a physical receiver. He will never be a Calvin Johnson I’d be anyone he’ll never catch more than 12 touchdowns a season.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Wallace is not a one-dimensional player
But he is only great IN one particular dimension, and that is going deep.
The good news is that he can work on a lot of the other stuff to where it becomes solid, if not great. The other piece of excellent news is that as his flaws and weaknesses have become more evident, it will make it easier for the Steelers to re-sign him if they want.
And agree; he is going to get an earful this week.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
But he is only great IN one particular dimension, and that is going deep.
Well said. He’s becoming more of a complete reciever but his only elite quality is taking the top off a defense.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of punters
Keep on eye on Brad Wing, out of LSU. The kid is RIDICULOUS. He’s a former Aussie rules football player, from Australia (ironically). Not only does he consistently put the ball inside the 5 yard line, but he also puts it right next to the sideline. With field position being so important, I would have no issue with a team burning a 4th round pick when he enters the draft.
How old is he?
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Dec 21, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
20
But I think he’s looking to go pro ASAP.
by Greig Clawson on Dec 21, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I would rather have us draft a kicker before a punter.
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
I would sacrifice one of my children for a kickers.
Of course, I don’t have any children…so..there goes that
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Proper statement is..
“I do not have any kids that I know about”.
I would like to preface this by saying that I have never coached football before but I’m pretty sure Jason Worilds needs to learn another rush move besides running wide, falling down and then have the tackle fall on him.
I think it'll come
Right now, and Monday in particular, he struggled to recognize the play. I wrote about that last week leading up to the game as well. He hasn’t quite put it all together yet. He took himself out of a few plays with an aggressive charge up the field, only to have the lineman hook him. They even had the LT drop into a pass blocking position on running plays a few times, which Worilds bought into hook, line and sinker.
Just needs more experience. Things will slow down for him.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
yea he was amazing last week
And perhaps the Niners picked up on his aggresiveness and gameplanned to use it against him this week. Hats off to them if that’s the case.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
They certainly did
Having Staley drop into pass protection was pretty damn clever. Worilds didn’t even see the handoff.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Plus, he was playing on the opposite side of the field
not sure if that would have anything to do with it, but it might have.
Things can always be worse....
In My Most Humble Opinion....
I don’t understand how it can be said that the 49ers D didn’t dominate.
4 turnovers and 3 points allowed is a dominating performance.
If our Steelers would have done that we would be calling them the greatest D in history.
I used the word "dominate" yesterday and got some backlash
But I still think they “dominated” in executing their game plan, which was to make us drive the length of the field without making mistakes (see how I can twist my own words in an attempt to still say I was right…hehe)
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I think this goes down to what our definition of “dominate” is in terms of a defense and an offense.
I think at least a few of their sacks were caused by Roethlisberger just not being comfortable as a pocket passer, so he stayed completely stationary. Not too tough to get a sack in five seconds if the QB doesn’t move.
All three of those interceptions were gimmes, Ben missed a bomb to Wallace that should have been six, Brown dropped a ball he could have taken for six. Granted, they didn’t make the plays, but those plays not being made had nothing to do with what the defense did.
Plus, most of their sacks came in the second half when they had a two possession lead. They could afford to pin their ears back and charge.
Houston’s defense and Baltimore’s defense in the opener dominated us. Our defense dominated Cincinnati in the second meeting and Cleveland in the first. To me, those were dominant performances.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Brutal Loss and Obvious Questions
I’m certain many Steeler fans are wondering the same thing: Why did Coach Tomlin start Ben Roethisberger and/ or why did he stay with Ben Roethlisberger? I am a fan of Coach T and BB, however it is the job of a head coach to lead. I watched Coach Tomlin’s press conference and was upset by his closed mindedness and refusal to discuss his decision to start and stay with BB.
We have Charlie Batch and Dennis Dixon. Agreed neither is Big Ben when healthy. But BB was not healthy and was put at risk of further injury. Is Batch not able to play at an acceptable level? If so, why keep him on the team? Is Dennis Dixon unacceptable? Why have him on the team? I watched Mike Tomlin’s news conference. It wasn’t that “we” didn’t get the job done, it was “you” the coach who calls the shots and who has responsibility to put the team in position to win. You did not!!! A healthy quarterback should trump an injured one, no matter how tough BB is and it showed.
The loss completely ruins any chance of winning in the playoffs on the road. Perhaps there never was one in the first place. Poor offense line, no penetration on the defensive line putting too much pressure on the Secondary. No real Offensive Coordinator with any game plan. Alot to overcome. Afraid it won’t happen this year. But Coach Tomlin needs to step up and accept his failures.
Signed:
Totally Frustrated
by Thundercraft29 on Dec 21, 2011 11:32 AM EST reply actions
One question.....
Were you asking the same questions of MT last week when Ben went back into the game b/c he certainly wasn’t healthier last week? He was a warrior last week b/c we won, don’t change the story now just b/c the outcome was different.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
come on now. EVERYONE is an expert on Monday or Tuesday.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
by FrankWyt on Dec 21, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
especially
Medical Doctors and offensive coordinators…
"Leave the gun. Bring the Canolis."
+100
I can resist everything but temptation.....
by the duchess of steel on Dec 21, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Re-think your statement of...
" A healthy quarterback should trump an injured one, no matter how tough BB is and it showed."
I’d much rather have Big Ben with a broken thumb and sprained ankle, than a helathy Dennis Dixon, Curtis Painter, Caleb Hanie, Rex Grossman, etc etc etc etc…. Big Ben is a Top 5 QB in this league.
"Leave the gun. Bring the Canolis."
The loss completely ruins any chance of winning in the playoffs on the road.
A tad dramatic, don’t you think? I didn’t see anything in that game that makes me think they flat-out cannot beat a good team in any stadium. I think it was a bad game, and you cannot play badly against good teams, or you lose 20-3.
You’re right, Tomlin’s job is to be accountable. Where in that is he required to state his accountability to the media? He was accountable for playing Roethlisberger. Because he’s not begging for your forgiveness does not mean he doesn’t feel accountable.
What Tomlin did is make an executive decision in the best interest of the team. He wasn’t cowering in a corner as Ben bullied him into playing. He evaluated Batch, Dixon and Ben and determined Ben gave them the best chance of winning.
We have no idea how well Batch would have done. We’ll never know. How much of that really matters right now?
People are so hell-bent on blaming someone for everything that happens in this society, we can’t simply just accept the fact (stuff) happens, and things don’t always work the way they’re supposed to. But since we feel someone HAS to be blamed when things don’t go our way, we develop an arrogant sense of “I-Told-You-So” hindsight-is-20/20 thinking.
I support Tomlin’s decision. If Batch went out and played half as bad, we would have still lost and Tomlin would be getting ripped for that.
He’s in that position to make those decisions, and he has my support because the dude’s won a helluva lot more games than he’s lost.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would Really Like It If........
We could now PLEASE rest the injured players and have them fresh to go on the road in the playoffs.
(I might change my mind again if Baltimore loses again)
I like
the last part of this statement the best
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 21, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
+7
I can resist everything but temptation.....
by the duchess of steel on Dec 21, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Hm-m-m
What Tomlin did is make an executive decision in the best interest of the team. He wasn’t cowering in a corner as Ben bullied him into playing. He evaluated Batch, Dixon and Ben and determined Ben gave them the best chance of winning.
Not so sure…Ben’s words: “When Coach tried to get me out, I said, ‘No, I’m not putting you in that situation, and I’m not quitting on our guys,” Roethlisberger said. “I started this thing. I’m going to finish it.”
Tomlin’s words: “He is a competitor, and I am not going to deny those guys those opportunities,” Tomlin said. “I know what kind of competitor he is,” Tomlin said. “I wanted to support him in that.”
I don’t think there was any big executive decision…I don’t think either BA or MT can tell Ben no!
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo (1970)
I don’t think there was any big executive decision…I don’t think either BA or MT can tell Ben no!
But THAT’S the decision he made. He let Ben make the call.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
I call an end to the BA experiment
it´s something like the slash Kordell Stewart, never give an edge and lose games when it count
back to the established run that means: Full Back and a solid OL
Big Ben is fastly becoming a Tim Couch with so many hits
by Ben Balesverger on Dec 21, 2011 11:48 AM EST reply actions
All failed experiments include 2 Super Bowl trips, with one win.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
all super bowl appearances were as a result of historically great defenses and the offenses were just good enough . . .
Ok. I’m not going to get in to this anymore, because at the end of the day, neither of our opinions matter.
But I will leave you with this. 1) Last years defense was NOT historic. 2)
were just good enough . . .
As opposed to…just bad enough
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
62.8 yards rushing per game isn't historic?
if the defense last year was 80 percent of what it was, the steelers would have been 8-8 or 9-7 at best . . . there was a point last year when the steelers gained something like 1,061 yards and only scored 2 or 3 touchdowns in that span . . . there is a pattern with arians . . .
Is that why he threw for 330 yards monday night?
Because he is becoming Tim Couch?
"Leave the gun. Bring the Canolis."
Congratulations
You guys have officially worn me out.
I’ll leave my last argument about Bruce Arians with this:
1.) this is clearly a passing league. If we are paying Ben Roethlisberger $15 million a year to hand the ball off, methinks we have our priorities mixed up.
2.) Let’s say Arians is fired or retires or is otherwise not with this club next year. Who do you blame for everything? Cuz I’ll buy you a car if Arians is gone and next year, we go 19-0 with the best offense the league has ever seen.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
What kind of car?
Cause I know it’s not going to happen, but it’s easier to dream if I have a visual.
Regarding point 1 though: I don’t disagree with you, but given his injuries, don’t you adapt the play-calling more to suit his current limitations?
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
He made that point already. If Ben is out there, he should be making the plays. “the standard is the standard” and such
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
I re-read above
And I saw that. And I definitely get where it’s coming from, but there is a difference between expectations of standards, and simply a physical inability to put weight on both feet, and run away from NFL defenders, no?
We might just disagree on this, and that’s ok, but I think there’s a difference between doing your job when you are physically capable, and having to adjust expectations and approach due to players who are injured (different than just hurting), but in the game.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
No, I get it. I can understand the point. But I would just have to ask you, what exactly would you do differently against a team like S.F?
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
That I don't know
Other than sneak up to Aldon Smith’s house the morning before the game, and slash his tires. Maybe Justin Smith too.
I DO think some more short passes to Mendenhall were in order. He made a lot of guys miss, and picked up a lot of yards that way. I also thought the passes to Heath worked well, and they could have brought Saunders in for that too, to maximize the number of three step drops to solid playmakers.
I also think they should have had Brown and Wallace go deep to stretch the field, with Mendy in the backfield to protect, and then run two tight end sets with Heath and Saunders, and dump the pass to whoever isn’t helping pick up opposing rushers. You don’t need to score a ton of points to beat the Niners, you just need to keep moving down the field.
In the big picture though, Tomlin’s the coach of this team, and he’s been to two Super Bowls, so he clearly is good at what he does. I still question the decision to start Ben, and not at least give Dixon a shot to see if his mobility would have helped, but I also believe MT knows a lot more about this team than I do.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Slashing tires
Shoulda thought of that.
What people need to understand about installing a game-plan is there are so many hours in the day. They have pretty thick playbooks and they go through every play, choosing the ones they feel give them the best advantage.
They have to make a decision as early as possible on which players are going to be in the game, because they have to select the plays based on that, especially when you’re talking about your quarterback.
Amid all of that, those players need to run through all of those plays so they’re physically prepared to run them in the game. If you throw out all of the deep passes (ones you’ve been using all season) in lieu of a ton of shorter ones, you’re drastically changing up what you’ve been doing, and you don’t have much time to run through and get used to the new stuff.
Now, on the other hand, they did have a bit more time to prepare for the 49ers game, but I’ll bet some of that time was spent advance scouting St. Louis, because they were on a really short week after the Monday Night game.
Plain and simple, the Steelers hoped Ben wouldn’t be as affected as he turned out to be. Gamble failed, and it shines even brighter considering the talent of the opposition.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
This is all entirely true
You make excellent points, and I can’t really disagree with them.
It’s simply that, in looking at playoff match-ups, I think we very well might see a BAL-GB Super Bowl, and that would be sad.
The Steelers are a very good team, but this might not be their year. I still think they drastically under-utilize Mendenhall in the passing game though.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
It’s simply that, in looking at playoff match-ups, I think we very well might see a BAL-GB Super Bowl, and that would be sad.
If that happened, I’m pretty sure I’d kill myself.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
I would like the Electric Blue Corvette
wait…since you are buying, maybe a Ferrari or Lamborghini instead ;)
Things can always be worse....
For you, NC, a Fiat
The one J-Lo is driving in those commercials…
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not screaming for Arians to be fired this week.
The turnovers killed us.
I will say though that I won’t cry if he’s gone next year and we replace him with a certain HC who is about to be fired in SD. Say what you’d like about Norv as a HC, but as an OC he’s 1000x as good as Arians.
And to those who talk about our SB trips with him as the OC… look back at the games those years and tell me we didn’t go in spite of him instead of because of him.
Obviously, the Steelers need to be (and remain) a passing team.
The thing that continues to bother me about Arians is the way he continually goes for the big play, even when the offense is successfully driving the ball steadily down the field. Deep passes, by nature, are low-percentage plays. So this usually means that we get zero yards on 1st or 2nd down. And even if we run the ball on 1st down and have a 2nd-and-5 or 6, for example, we still end up with a tough 3rd down to convert-even tougher if Ben gets sacked trying to find an open receiver on the bomb play.
I don’t think it’s smart football to go away from what has been working for you and depend so much on long passes to put the ball into the end zone. In fact, the thing that makes the bomb most effective is when the defense expects shorter, possession-type plays. But nobody ever expects that from the Arians offense.
Have no idea why some of the words ended up struck-through in my post.
I intended those words to stay in.
This is meant as a respectful counter to what you are saying
And I know you aren’t sensitive, so lets try to keep it civil lol
But to what you said. If you keep sticking with what is working, they know it’s coming, they adjust, it stops working. Even though it seems like they go for the big play too much, we are talking about, at most five to seven plays. That’s out of about 60-70 offensive plays. Even if they don’t work, they STILL put the idea in the defenses head that they will try it.
From what I’ve seen, the deep passes, for the most part, were not bad calls. they were the result of Ben not making the throw he should have made. So many times, the receiver has the man beat, and Ben just can’t get it to him.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
this
some plays, whether they work or not, are used to set up other plays. Those deep plays keep the safeties from cheating up constantly, hopefully opening up the run and the middle of the field
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 22, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
Wow
- Fire BA
- Ben is becoming Tim Couch
Wow, after one loss to arguably this best defense in the league and we’ve devolved to this……what in the ’ell is the world coming to…..
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Good write up
Agree with sentiments, the team that executed better won the game. I do though disagree on your penalty observation. I saw so many penalties not called on them it was unbelievable. It’s not an excuse but every other replay showed their o-line holding in plain view on a key block and that offensive pass interference no call on Polamalu wasn’t the only one I saw not called against their recievers.
I do though disagree on your penalty observation. I saw so many penalties not called on them it was unbelievable.
I highlighted one of them, complete with a photo!
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
There's a very simple reason why holding wasn't called on that play
the refs forgot Harrison wasn’t in the game, and assumed it was him.
(93 and 92 are pretty close).
Naturally, if James Harrison is being held, there will be no flag.
Bound to cover just a little more ground.
offense
Again, this should be a top 5 scoring offense with these players. We should blow out the poorer teams ie the Browns, Chiefs etc. Look what GB and NE do to people every week for years. Brady has no Wallace or Brown (or Cotchery) at WR, though he does have TE and WW. And no Mendy type back in either GB or NE. I don’t know where the blame is except, they should on paper be doing a lot better. When Ken W was the OC here they seemed a lot more balanced.
Look what GB and NE do to people every week for years
Years? I saw Green Bay score 14 points on the same Chiefs defense against which we scored 13. How’d the Patriots offense do against us in Week 8? And I’m sorry, everyone, Roethlisberger ain’t no Tom Brady. If you want a power offense and a lack of playoff wins in three years, then fine, let’s get Belichick on in here.
Maybe, just maybe, good sir, you’re grossly underrating many of the players and teams you mentioned here, and are overrating the Steelers’ offensive capabilities in their first year (or 14 games) of playing together.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Why isn't anyone advocating switching defenses with these "elite" teams?
Defense wins what???
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 21, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Neal I hear what you are saying on BA and the O and get the analogy's
I stated somewhere this game I thought BA called a good game. Balanced until they HAD to throw. And, maybe it’s simply that the O hasn’t had any consistency with injuries up and down the line. BB banged up. Young receivers,etc. But…..something isn’t right with this O. we have play makers galore and are so inconsistent. Again, I don’t have the answers but they should be more consistent and more explosive.
I think it’s sort of a “death by a thousand paper cuts” kind of thing.
It’s not just Ben’s injury. It’s the loss of Pouncey, which forces Legursky to center and Kemoeatu in at left guard against Cleveland. Kemoeatu commits four penalties. The combination of all of those things hurt the offense’s production. If you were to go back over a timeline of all the injuries, I think you’d find there were a lot more than we can remember, and they came in bunches.
On top of all of those things (which every team has to go through), you’ve got a lot of new players in the offense.
The Packers lost Jennings and two right tackles and scored 20 points lower than their season average. Continuity is important.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
don't disagree
It all adds up to inconsistency. Something still doesn’t feel right about this O. They are underachieving. It may be BB. The sandlot style may simply undermine any sustainable continuity or efficiency.
They're not clicking yet
That’s what us moron sports writers say…
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
they are not for sure...but usually aren't
They weren’t clicking heading into last yrs postseason. Horrible first half against Balt and horrible 2nd half against the Jets. Yr before no playoffs. Yr before SB win and even then I recall a sandlot style win against Balt in AFCC and yeah a pretty good O performance against SD. In 4 yrs I don’t recall this O ever clicking for say, a 10 game run. There are 4 constants on Offense in these yrs. BB, Hines, BA and Mikey T. This combo can’t find a way to put it all together.
Side note….this post was a great read! I saw the game live so always so much different and your quick hits were a hell of a lot of fun to read through.
Totally agree
With our talent level on offense we should be scoring a lot more points. Our red zone scoring stinks as well. Myself, I blame Arians, I never see any max protects for our QB who can’t move, or screens to backs, KC beat GB on running back screens, to keep the pass rush coming straight up field. I am biased though, I’ve thought he was a terrible OC since he was with the Browns and his play calling let us comeback on them in the playoffs in 03. We have won in spite of his playcalling and I will be glad to see him and his stupid offense leave. Way too much talent, a lot more than other teams who score a lot more or atleast have a steady offense where you know what to expect. We could score 6 points against the Browns one week and then struggle against Indy when other teams blow those teams out and we hang on because of defense. This is way longer than I wanted, Good riddance BA. And I don’t think every game is a bad gameplan by him, just about 12 out of 16 games it’s a struggle to score points and it’s because of him.
by SteelCity G on Dec 21, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
I used to be an Arians basher
but I’m less of a hater now. I think the OL issues are what keep us from being as elite an offensive force as we could. Their pass protection is poor and their run blocking isn’t much better. I’ll withhold judgement of Arians until we upgrade the OL to protect BB better and create more holes for Mendy to run through.
Neal, you may not want to lay it on the refs too much
and I agree. They didn’t lose the game for us, but they made some crucial bad calls. The worst may have been the call on the punt return fumble. it was obvious that the 49er being pushed by the steeler hit the ball with his arm before the returner touched it, causing the loose ball. The steeler didn’t even touch the ball, and there was no fair catch signal given. That gave them the ball at mid field instead of the steelers getting the ball deep in 49er territory.
The penalty was called because he was within the two-yard halo the returner is allowed to have to make the catch fairly. It had nothing to do with whomever touched the ball (which, yes, it hit both the blocker and the returner, and Lewis clearly recovered it).
Hard to argue, but easy to be pissed cuz guys violate that rule all the time, they only call it when the ball is dropped.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Are you sure there is a Halo rule in the NFL?
College I think so, but I did not think the NFL did.
If you buy a foreign made product you give money to a person who will not be buying an American made product that you get paid to make. Think about it next time you're at the store.
I'm pretty sure they do...
I rarely ever watch college football and I know how the rule works. What did they call a penalty on then?
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Have not rewatched yet, don't know if I will either.
If you buy a foreign made product you give money to a person who will not be buying an American made product that you get paid to make. Think about it next time you're at the store.
Oh, nice post by the way.
I agree with all your points. Though, I’m not as high on Mendy as you are. I think he’s a middle of the pack back.
I didn't say vote him to the Pro Bowl
I just said he’s looking really good. Hungry.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
QB
Pitt really needs to draft a quality backup QB this year, cut Dixon and Batch.
Good Post as Ususal
If’s and Buts were fruits and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas. we need to forget about this past Monday and worry about this Saturday, the Steeler’s still need to take care of business….
5 words you may never hear.."Bungals win the Super Bowl"
Roethlisberger to rest until playoffs
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
Not the worst idea
Behind that offensive line, I think Dixon has the best chance.
And, without Ben, I think the Defense, filled with veterans, knows it has to do its job. They will victimize Cleveland. Again. You know, in addition to the fact that they are already victimized by virtue of living in Cleveland.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
BA has had great calls this year.
Can anyone explain though, why so many first down handoffs to Mendenhall? Is it me or do they seem to end up with no or short yardage, making for more stress on the passing game. It seems with all the good receivers that a 1 yard pass on first down out of the run formation would be a little more deceptive and productive.
by ibygeorge on Dec 21, 2011 12:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Gotta establish the run
Then, a few series down the line, they sell out to stop the run and POW! Hit ’em with play action.
Football is like chess. More often than anything, one play is setting up another down the line.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
What about short passes to Mendenhall?
He’s really the ideal back for it. Can you talk to Bruce on our behalf?
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 21, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
They don’t typically call them because they want to get the ball down the field to their strengths; their receivers.
However, when Mendenhall’s in, he’s often a safety value, and Ben doesn’t throw it to him.
I think teams are recognizing exactly what you’re talking about here, and on those plays, I think the spy is a lot closer than you think he is. They’re usually seven or eight yards off him. Those guys are damn fast and can close that gap in a hurry.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
dominance
The 49ers didn’t dominate. For the most part, the teams were evenly matched on both sides of the ball, despite some dissappointing performances from the patchwork left side of our line. We ran the ball pretty effectively most of the game and receivers were open most of the night (four with more than 50 yards receiving). We moved the ball well (albeit only between our goal line and their 20). Gore did not have a big night and Smith was okay, but not great. We made the big stops on D (SF 4/13 on third down). They moved the ball well on their first two drives and after the Suisham field goal, but otherwise, they didn’t dominate on either side of the ball and we didn’t looked overmatched, except on the Aldon Smith sacks.
Poor field possession and four turnovers did us in. SF deserves a lot of credit for both. These are part of the game, so we can’t just shrug them off, but given that we looked tired (cross country game/especially Starks) and were battered before, during and after, it could have been a lot worse. A few plays that could have gone the other way might have changed the result. If Ben is somewhat healthy and mobile (big ifs), if Pouncey and Harrison play and if we are on a neutral field, I like our chances in a rematch, even with Willis on the field for SF. Plus, i can’t stand the Harbaugh brothers and hope we beat at least on of them this year.
I am all in favor of resting Ben until the playoffs. I think we are in good shape if weare in Denver if Ben is reasonably healthy. A bye would be great, but i think we have to give it our best shot with the back up qb for the last two games. My gut tells me we should give Dixon a shot and use Batch as the back up.
just scanned many of the views on bruce arians in this thread . . .
. . . but i have to agree with his detractors. arians does not take full advantage of the talent that the steelers offense has. why hasn’t there been a nibble from other teams to hire away the great offensive mind?? i remember when the steelers coordinators were being hired away almost yearly with the likes of kordell and maddox at quarterback. does the rest of the league know something the steelers don’t??
Boo!
arians does not take full advantage of the talent that the steelers offense has.
Antonio Brown’s first catch (or maybe second) will make Wallace and Brown the first dual-1,000 yard receivers since Ward and Burress in 2001 (and they had 1008 and 1001, respectively). Wallace still has an outside chance of breaking the team record of 1,398 yards (needs 298 in final two games…suppose that’s a long shot).
They’re both averaging 16 yards a catch. I gotta believe that would be a team record as well. And they’ve won at least 10 games in four of the five seasons he’s been in charge of the offense, with a Super Bowl ring and two AFC championships.
Mularkey (2000) and Wisenhunt (2008) never sniffed the offensive production Arians has put up in the passing game, and whether we like it or not, that’s the way you play the game nowadays.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
that's the story with Arians though
always a lot of gaudy yardage stats and mediocre to bad on scoring offense (the only stat that counts). I wasn’t on the hate wagon a few posts ago, but lets not get carried away.
If they got a good OC this off season and replaced him, I think we’d see our scoring offense explode.
Dear Santa – please let the Chargers fire Turner and have him make a visit with Mr Rooney this February to join our staff… That and a red rider BB gun please.
lol. I don’t know why people are so obsessed with Turner, or even think it’s a possibility he’d be hired/want to come here. Where does it come from? Gilbride was the last former head coach they hired, and that was after a 2 season failed experiment.
Obviously I can’t see the future, but I’d be willing to put up quite a bit that says there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell Turner is coming, and I don’t necessarily agree that he’s some sort of offensive genius. Nothing I can find under his OC record suggest anything special about the guy.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
nothing special?
He was the OC for the Cowboys in those great years. He was the first to make Smith in SF look half respectable. Also there’s that thing he’s been doing in SD where their offensive has been top 5 in scoring every year since he was hired! He is a very good OC – that shouldn’t be questioned. He’d also be a major upgrade over Arians, and that too can’t be questioned without bias.
The thing that makes him a great OC and makes Arians not so much is this: When something works Turner will wear out a defense with it until they stop him! Arians on the other hand will have a play work and we won’t see it for 3 weeks. However, a play that is stuffed normally will get played about 8 to 10 times that game.
No I don’t think Norv would come to be our OC, but tis the season to have happy thoughts, so I can dream it will happen.
Ok, in Dallas, he had at least 3 hall of famers, as well as a few others that people consider among the best of all time. Smith’s second year was also aided by having this running back named Frank Gore. It’s not just Turner. I’m not saying he wasn’t good, I just can’t imagine why you’d think he is solely responsible for something like.
As far as “major upgrade” followed by “can’t be questioned without bias” . I don’t even really know how to answer that. Saying something would certainly be better that would couldn’t possibly prove, to me, means it absolutely can be questioned.
For all you know, having someone like Turner here could destroy the team, or even getting rid of Arians. It seems like people expect 100% success. Not happening. No matter what the rankings are, his offenses have scored more points than the team’s defense has allowed a considerable amount of times.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
He was the OC for the Cowboys in those great years. He was the first to make Smith in SF look half respectable.
Has anyone ever lived on past success as much as Norv Turner? The guy had possibly the most talented OL in history, a HOF QB, RB and WR plus a very good TE. How could he not succeed?
Plus, why haven’t his underachieving clubs in SD outweighed his success 20 years ago (yes 20 years ago) with a historically talented cast of characters.
Go big or go home!!
by average joe blow on Dec 22, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
So lemme get this straight...
…We want to fire Bruce Arians so we can hire….Norv Turner?
Really? Norv Turner?
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Arians scoring offensive rankings
So in his time as our OC, Arians offenses with a franchise QB have been 20th or worse 40% of the time, 12th twice, and 9th one time. If our defense were in that range on a regular basis then even coach Lebeau would have no job security. I don’t see anything wrong with people wanting a change here.
2007 – 9th
2008 – 20
2009 – 12
2010 – 12
2011 – 22
before Arians:
2006 – 12
2005 – 9
2004 – 11
2003 – 19
2002 – 8
Ok, fine
It’s a WINNING league. Has Arians failed to do that?
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
he has not promoted winning . . .
i have said it before . . . if it were not for historic defensive performances, the steelers would not have made the last two super bowls; maybe even the playoffs . .
Seemed to me the offense, not the defense, was more responsible for the win in the second half of XLIII.
Offense also made plays at the end of the Ravens game in the playoffs when the defense needed two drops to close them out.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
Who's the best offensive lineman he had in that time?
A rookie Maurkice Pouncey and Max Starks? The team has drafted the position, and those players have done well (well, Gilbert and Pouncey at least).
Who else has he had?
He was also without his quarterback for a quarter of last season. Look, I’m not saying he should be nominated for the Hall of Fame, I’m just saying he’s getting the job done.
by Neal Coolong on Dec 21, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
+7
I think the lack of quality on the OL is the key reason for the overall mediocre performance of the offense, production wise.
It appears we’re moving towards solving that (Pouncey last year, Gilbert this year, hopefully a guard next year).
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Dec 22, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
so Norv's accomplishments in dallas and SD don't matter because he had talent
but Arians is great because only the lack of talent holds him back?
That’s a fantastic circular argument. I’ll take the guy who has proven to dominate the league in scoring with talent over the guy who leads the league in excuses.
Our O-line isn’t great, but our skill players are easily top 5 in the league. I don’t think it’s asking too much that we are above 22nd in the league in scoring. If you still love Arians – I submit the browns game that sunk us in 2009. Anyone who looks at that and doesn’t even question our OC has some serious rose colored glasses on.
I agree with the assessment of the game.
The Steelers were certainly sloppy and didn’t deserve to win, but had a couple of plays gone differently early on, things may have been a lot closer.
Right
And if the Steelers would have out scored SF they would have won.
We lost to a good 49ers team because our Quarterback is broken. Baltimore lost to a hungry San Diego team because their Quarterback is brokeass.
WE’RE IN THE PLAYOFFS YINZ, OTHER FOOLS SHOULD BE SO LUCKY – HAPPY MOTHERF*CKING BLACK & GOLD HOLIDAYS!!!
I pledge allegiance to the Terrible Towel and the only team in America, and to the franchise for which it stands, one nation under Rooney, indivisible, with the ability to crush you all.
"He was popping off down there the first time they were about to score. So you run your mouth, expect to get something. Everything's between the lines, so he got what he had coming. He was running his mouth and getting in the way of the train, and the train wasn't coming off the track."
-James Harrison on Kyle Orton
by TVsCHACHI on Dec 22, 2011 7:27 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
for holiday spirit
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 22, 2011 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
Dear Mr Rooney SHAME ON YOU!
Being a Pittsburgh Steelers fan for 40 of my 47 years has been a real honor to my family and I. I have spent a great deal of my families recreational spending on Pittsburgh Steelers novelties, Northern California Steelers games and postage trying for a chance to purchase Super Bowl tickets. This year my wife and I purchased 49ers season tickets just to ensure we could get tickets for the Steelers vs. 49ers game. I also attended my very first Pittsburg Steelers football game in Pittsburg Heinz Field. As soon as I depart the plane I knew that I was home with the Franco Harris statue in the airport, it was a dream come true. I enjoyed this game very much and bragged to my friends when I returned home.
My wife and I attend the Raiders vs. 49ers game (see enclosed photo I’m wearing the Blue Stanford Shirt with wife standing behind me for cover) the same week and we were traumatized at the amount of violence at that game. I felt a need to let the 49ers know that I was deeply concerned regarding the safety of my wife or family attending future games. Tyson Lamps phoned me right away to reassure me that measures were being taken to rectify my concerns. Then came the most disconcerting moment in my life as a California Pittsburgh Steelers Fan. My wife and I were able to upgrade our tickets to the Pittsburg Steelers vs. the 49ers game to a luxury Suite. At approximately 5:12PM I was returning back to the Luxury Suite when I noticed a man whom I spent years admiring. He was being escorted by two men one in front of him and one behind him with each being equally spaced distances between them.
It was Dan Rooney, to my delight I started to tell him how long I had been a Steelers Fan and about my first trip to Pittsburgh to see a Steelers Home game earlier this year. That I thought the Steelers were a extraordinary organization and I was proud to support them. The whole time Mr Rooney never broke stride while walking to his Luxury Suite # 80. What I happen next has left me heavyhearted regarding my support for the Pittsburgh Steelers organization. I asked Mr Rooney if I could take his picture he quickly replied NO and kept on walking. I could not believe my ears and was totally astonished. It seems that there are double standards for the owners and players.
The players are encouraged to socialize with the fans and sign autographs as this is a great marketing tool, and protect the shield. But as an owner who has reaped the rewards of dedicated fans like me his entire life and you don’t have 30 seconds to take a picture (Really Shame on you Mr Rooney) you have left me confused and a bitter taste in my mouth regarding my continual support of an organization that your father has built to what it is today. I think the Mr Dan Rooney should refresh and re-read his own mission statement.
Steelers Community Relations Mission Statement
The Pittsburgh Steelers are proud to be a part of the western Pennsylvania community. The organization’s strong commitment to this area dates back to 1933 when Arthur J. Rooney first founded the team. Steelers chairman emeritus Dan Rooney and president Art Rooney II are known as two of the most active NFL owners and are some of Pittsburgh’s most involved executives in civic affairs. Steelers players, coaches and front office staff are involved in appearances, charitable donations and outreach programs with nonprofit and community groups. It’s our way of giving back to the community that has given us so much for more than 75 years!
Sincerely
Terry Smith
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