Steelers, Browns to Renew Storied Rivalry
by maryrose on Dec 30, 2011 4:03 PM EST
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PrintI know, I am in the minority here. You don't even need to put up an argument. Most Steelers fans, especially younger ones and those not in the middle of the Pittsburgh-Cleveland geography, believe that the Steelers and Ravens are more of a rivalry than the Steelers and Browns. The Steelers and Ravens are both good teams, fighting for division titles lately in epic, hard-hitting battles. I get all that. But what happens when one of the two teams goes into a tailspin? All the sudden the rivalry, built on a beach sand foundation, goes by the wayside as if it never happened.
The Steelers and Browns, however, are not built on the moment. The rivalry is not dependent on both teams being good at the same time. The rivalry is not fleeting like the Colts-Patriots (what rivalry?). The foundation is not temporary sand, but the permanent cement of hatred. Go over to the Browns site and spend some time looking. You will see hate after hate after hate. You will see signatures with references to the Steelers. Even the site editor had a signature defacing the Steelers until a couple of my comments led to him changing it. Read the comments and articles. Anti-Pittsburgh garbage is spewed throughout the site like nothing you might ever imagine. It's almost unbelievable how much Steeler hate is written on that site, far beyond normal expectancy of a routine division rival.
The talk shows keep bringing up that one game in 2009 (as if we pull out a single game in the last 20 to talk about). That 2009 Browns win was their Super Bowl. The players still talk about people coming up to them in the community and thanking them for a glorious Christmas present - a team that won four football games.
That folks, is a real rivalry. It is a rivalry steeped in tradition - the two teams have played twice every year since 1950. It is not Johnny-come-lately. It is a rivalry steeped in geography - not two random geographies that have nothing to do with each other. Pittsburgh and Cleveland are cities that fought for turf in the steel industry when jobs were at stake for members of their respective communities. With Youngstown as the line of demarcation, both cities featured the same hard-working people who took steel lunch boxes to work and could never really get their hands clean.
Both franchises, ironically owned by a man named Art, were instrumental in keeping the health of the other in great shape. When the NFL desperately needed three teams to switch from the NFC to the AFC in the 1970 merger of the NFL and AFL, it was Pittsburgh and Cleveland, knowing that all they needed was each other, who agreed to the switch that allowed the merger to happen. That folks, is a rivalry (though interestingly and anecdotally, Baltimore was the third franchise). Those of you too young to remember the 60s and 70s have no idea what I am talking about when I refer to the vicious blasts of Joe Turkey Jones and Jack Lambert and Dave Puzzouli and Joe Greene and Ron Bolton and Mel Blount and on and on and on.
Just like the Steelers have been the Browns' "daddy" in recent times, the Browns were the daddy in the 1950s. In 1956, tired of losing, Steelers' Head Coach Walt Kiesling told the players, one-by-one, that their entire year's pay would be docked 10% if they didn't beat Cleveland. With a year's mortgage on the line, they fortunately did. That was Pittsburgh's championship game that year, and all the players felt 10% richer. Trust me, the game this Sunday is the Browns Super Bowl. They have come out and said so. The city will dance in the streets if Cleveland wins, even with nothing to play for. In fact, if Cleveland does win, it will actually hurt them. They will fall in the draft order a few places which would cripple the potential for a high pick or blockbuster trade to get their franchise quarterback. Doesn't matter. When you hate as badly as they hate, all the chips are on the table Sunday.
I don't hate Baltimore. I don't think on the whole they hate us. Hate is not fleeting. It is too strong of an emotion to be temporary or built on sand. Hate doesn't happen with random geography. It doesn't mysteriously vanish when one team goes in the crapper. I have four goals every year. The first is to beat Cleveland. The second is to beat Cleveland again. The third is to make the playoffs and the fourth is to win Lombardi. Two of the three goals have been accomplished. The fourth goal is really an unlikely achievement for any team, considering each is only one of 32. But that third goal is on the line Sunday. I was born in Pittsburgh. I lived in Youngstown for 20 years and Cleveland for 15 years. I am in a pretty unique position to understand the rivalry. Trust me, buckle your chin-strap Sunday for a rival game that since 1950 has withstood the test of time.
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For me MaryRose
When Art Modell moved the browns to Baltimore…all that storied history went with it… similar I suppose to the Oilers being in TN… Im every bit sure the Brownies are determined to end out playoff bye hopes, but much of the recent brown history hasnt been one of rivalries… I hope for a building of on in the years to come, find then Bengals more a rivalry currently then the Browns…
You won't get any argument on this point from me.
I remember the 1950s and 1960s when the Browns would beat us and rub our noses in it. Then in the 70s, when we did the same thing to them, we found that their fans could dish it out but not take it. Browns fans definitely hate the Steelers with a passion unknown in Baltimore or anywhere else in the football universe. You’re right that this is a venerable hatred which has stewed for decades in its own bile. If the Browns do nothing else this season, they would dearly love to end the season with a victory over the hated Black and Gold. For my part, I hope we rub their noses in it one more time.
Same for me
I remember Leroy Kelly and Jim Brown making us look terrible! Rogel up the middle etc.etc.After all of those years, we relish our recent success.
Ex-Pat Pittsburgher in Baltimore...(married to a Browns fan)
I don’t hate Baltimore. I don’t think on the whole they hate us.
While I do agree that Cleveland is a more historic rival when you look at the grand scheme, I disagree with a) Baltimore doesn’t hate us a whole and b) that Baltimore isn’t are our current main rival. I’ve lived in this city for the last 5 years and have never seen such hatred for a sports team as Ravens fans have for the Steelers. I’ve been to Orioles games in the middle of May when a random “Steelers Suck” chant starts up. (and no, I’m not dumb enough to wear any black and gold gear to even an O’s game so they didn’t start it because of seeing me wear a shirt or hat) This is even when the hated Red Sox or Yankees are in town. I can’t say that this might not happen in Cleveland, too, but I’ve never heard of such a thing before moving here. I’ve haven’t ever lived in Cleveland (although my Browns fan wife wants to move there…) but I can tell you that most of her family are Browns fans and as a whole, they might hate certain players (Harrison and Ben…) but they all seem to respect the franchise. I feel like here in Baltimore they hate the players, the city, the fans, and some of them even hate the Rooneys. Like it or not, the Ravens are our biggest rival and I don’t see that changing any time soon with how poorly managed the Browns are. That being said, I still hate the Browns but I guess part of me feels sorry for them. I think being married to one softened my stance a bit. They’re as pathetic as my beloved Pirates.
Mike – Behind Enemy Lines
Nah!
When it comes to bitter, diabolical and visceral hatred for the Steelers, Cleveland reigns supreme. Besides, drinking is merely a pastime in Baltimore, but in Cleveland it’s a form of self-preservation.
by Billy52 on Dec 30, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I live in the DC area and I agree that Ravens fans loathe all thinks Pittsburgh
I went to a game and was threatened multiple times. Also, for me when the Browns moved to Baltimore, my hate moved with them.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 30, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe we could do "man on the street" interviews to settle this.
“Tell me sir/madam, what comes to mind when you hear the name Pittsburgh Steelers?” We can give extra points for creativity.
I suspect most would just dump beers on our head and move on to their sad little lives putting Old Bay on everything
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 30, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
Here We Go!
The Only Sign Of Life In Cleveland….“Pittsburgh 142 Miles”
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
well....
to me baltimore is cleveland. for now.
the first couple of years all the players were the same, so it was easy to make baltimore the new cleveland at the time.
my problem in viewing this as a ‘rivalry’ is that cleveland hasn’t done squat since re-emerging in the league. it’s like making fun of the goofy-looking girl at school. not cool.
That goofy-looking girl rejected you in 2009 and kept you from going to the prom. She then threw a party for all her friends at your expense.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
by maryrose on Dec 30, 2011 5:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
since ive been a fan (2002)
the browns have been like a mentally challenged little brother who i’ve pitied too much to have any strong negative feelings for. however the attitute of the fans at DBN is starting to change that. they made a post over there after the last meeting, and almost every one of them was fantasizing about the browns delivering some career ending injury to James Harrison as a form of revenge for his ‘headhunting’, and they were dissapointed that the Roethlisberger injury wasnt more serious. I dunno about you guys, but im having trouble feeling sorry for them anymore.
Don't feel sorry for them...
…Pity them, because:
1) They live in or near Cleveland
2) They root for a team that makes the Bengals organization look normal
3) They live in or near Cleveland
4) They dream of only two victories a year, and rarely get half of that. All other wins mean nothing to them
5) They hate themselves almost as much as they hate Pittsburgh, because they (see #1 and #3)
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Why is it that you feel the need to defend Browns fans? I understand the points you’ve previously made about the issue and everything, but why is it of such high importance to you?
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
It’s not about Browns fans. It’s about generalizing about an entire fan base.
I’m not sure there is a group of fans that are the subject of negative stereotypes more than Steelers fans. Since we are the subject of it so often, we shouldn’t engage in it.
I’m all for people criticizing other teams players, coaches, front offices, all of that. But every single fan base has fans that live in the city, outside the city, overly critical fans, assholes, great people, fans of all types. So why make negative generalizations?
Thank you for explaining.
I agree with some of your points. Yes..we are the subject of many negative stereotypes as Steeler fans, and yes, I often use that fact as a reason to not engage in it towards others.
However, when it comes to Browns fans, I can’t agree. Maybe the ones that are on the internet aren’t the best representation, but it’s not just there. Two weeks ago I was at a bar with my friend, and we were talking about our teams, some Browns fan overheard me talking about the Steelers..and felt it necessary to start with the standard Brown fan shit talk. It probably would have gotten ugly if the bartender didn’t tell him to shut up or leave. It’s everywhere. They are miserable. They root for injured opposing players more than they root for their own team.
My brother in law is a Browns fan, and he feels the same way. I’m sorry, but if you have 100 experiences with a Browns fan, and 97 of them are negative, you are going to assume the worst. And when the stereotype becomes a fact, that’s just something they have to deal with. I don’t see many of them stepping up to help their reputation.
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
Well that hasn’t been my experience with Browns fans, but then I live in San Francisco, so maybe it is a mellower group out here, although they are pretty hard core with their passion for the team. I mean the team sucks yet they keep showing up every Sunday to watch the games. And perhaps they act differently with me because I’m frankly pretty chill about it all, and maybe that influences their interactions with me.
Of course there is a significant percentage of Steelers fans attitudes that I find to be incredibly annoying and off-putting, so there’s that as well. The reason I like this site so much is that I find a this to be in general a much more even keeled group than what I think exists overall in the fan base. I’m afraid if I actually lived in Pittsburgh the fans would annoy me so much they might make start cheering against the team.
but then I live in San Francisco, so maybe it is a mellower group out here
Duh! Hippie capital of the world? Grateful Dead? Come on
(just kidding)
I admire their resolve and passion (to the ones that actually like the team, not the ones that just hate other teams). But I’m getting from your line after that that you are trying to say that I’m not pretty chill? Almost like, maybe you’re saying I brought the shit I’ve gotten on myself maybe?
Well..that’s not the case. I never rub the teams success in people’s noses, or do any of the things you may be thinking. I don’t talk shit about how good they are, none of that crap. I find those same things off putting that you do, I would imagine. But if me and my friend are talking about the games our team just played, and I’m here saying my team should have played better, despite a win, and some asshole starts yelling “that’s as good as they can play because they suck blah blah blah” that’s not on me.
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
Cuz' they started it...
And I have to put up with the absurd and visceral taunts from idiotic Browns fans just about every time I go out to watch the Steelers game on TV. Kids with me? It doesn’t matter. Wife, mother, disabled kid? Doesn’t matter. Some of these people take things a littel too seriously..I have been threatened, pushed, had beer thrown at.me..etc….and that was by my very own brother. I have no qualms about generalizing. I hatem and they stank. After we beat the Browns I have a pep in my step and a gleam in my eye. There is one guy I know that goes to the same place ever week hoping we will be there just so he can show us how much he hates the Steelers….he owns a t-shirt or jersey from every other NFL team, and wears the team that the Steelers are playing that week. He doesn’t love his team..he HATES the Steelers. Absurd, venemous, spiteful, rude….I could go on.
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
I bet there are Browns or, better yet, Patriots or Ravens fans, who say a lot of the same things about their experiences with Steelers fans.
I don’t think you’ll find one Steeler fan in the world that owns a jersey of every team just to wear the one of the team playing the Ravens/Browns/Patriots, or any team for that matter.
Guys from Cincy Jungle posted their stories about going to Heinz for the Steeler/Bengal game this year. Not a negative word was spoken about their experience.
You think a Steeler fan will have that story about this Sunday’s game?
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
Again, you are talking about individuals. Not the entire group of fans.
I am damn confident if the roles were reversed, and the Browns continued to kick the Steelers asses year after year, there would be plenty of Steelers fans that would have such hate for the Browns that they would do those things.
We happen to cheer for the team that always has the upper hand. Just imagine for a minute if the roles were reversed. How much would you hate their team?
individuals….the first one…the second one….
after awhile..it becomes the whole, and the individuals are the ones that aren’t like that. Again, I have to ask, and this is not questioning whether you are right or wrong. Why do you feel it necessary to defend these people?
As far as how I’d feel about a team having the upper hand. The Patriots have been fairly dominant against us in the last 11 years. I don’t hate them, and do not wish injury upon any of their players.
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
I guess because I like my Browns friends, and I have a lot of them, and I know that all they want is for their team to be competitive. To give them reason to cheer. And of course they are frustrated. Who wouldn’t be?
And you can’t use the Pats as a comparison. They beat the Steelers in a few AFC Championship games in a decade the Steelers have won 2 super bowls. As a comparison, it’s not even in the same stratosphere.
Oh, and the year Brady got knocked out for the season with a knee injury, I know for a fact there were plenty of Steelers fans who cheered.
Well..I like my brother in law, and I like my best friend, and I like a couple other friends that love the Browns…
They hate Browns fans too…HATE em…More than I do. The are constantly shamed by the bad name they are given.
Maybe people cheered Brady’s injury, I can’t argue for or against. But I am reasonable confident that there were less than 3 BTSC members that did. I’m also 100% certain that 0 of my Steeler fan friends did. So there’s that.
Now go on to DBN…a HUGE collection of Browns fans..and see how many thought it was so awesome that Ben got injured..
Sorry, but you can like your Browns friends without ignoring the fact that the vast majority of the fan base are miserable scumbags
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
And the Steelers fans would be miserable scumbags if the team was that bad too.
Hell, there were a ridiculous number of miserable scumbags coming out of the woodwork because the Steelers started 2 – 2
by worldtrip on Dec 30, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
this is a fact.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
Ok..well, I can’t argue hypothetical situations. I also can’t say that the two or three people that had problems when the team was 2-2 represent the entire fan base. I thin it’s irrelevant. You are making excuses for an extremely large amount of people.
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
I’m not making excuses. What I’m saying is all fanbases have all kinds of fans. Our team wins often, so it’s easy to feel like our fanbase is superior. It isn’t. If the Steelers sucked, I am confident that we would have lots of horrifyingly obnoxious fans who would get most of their pleasure from hating other teams and having their players get injured.
Fortunately the Steelers win most of the time. We only have to deal with those fans when the Steelers don’t win by enough points.
What I’m saying is all fanbases have all kinds of fans.
Yes..and it is this knowledge that prevents me from generalizing a fan base in almost all cases.
I even avoid generalizing Eagle fans, despite my better judgement.
However, I stand by, and will continue to stand by, my thoughts about the Browns fans. As I’ve mentioned, my Browns fan family members/ friends agree with me. It’s not just me that feels this way.
And again, I can’t argue the hypotheticals. I don’t really know how it would be if those things happened.
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
My hypothetical is based on what I have seen and experienced during those terrible down years when the Steelers go 9-7 and miss making the playoffs on a tiebreaker.
Well..i wasn’t necessarily discrediting you there, just saying I can’t argue, because I have no idea. Finding out about this site earlier in the year was like a slap in the face to me. I just didn’t think something like this existed. Of course, I never looked for one..but that’s neither here nor there.
I don’t know how people reacted then. Me personally, during the skid, I thought they had no business in the playoffs…then I thought “hey..we just won it all last year..it’s not that bad”
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
Warren Sapp
Doesn’t like you talking bad about him ;)
"Hey number 16! I'm coming to kill you and there ain't nothing he can do about it!" -James Harrison to Matt Cassel on his RT during the 08' beating of the Pats.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 30, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Your comparison of the angst expressed here...
…when the Steelers were 2-2, or after the KC or Colts game is nothing compared to what goes on over at DBN. Steeler fans went through 15 years of not reaching the Super Bowl after the first Dynast, until 1995, and we lost that one. Yet, had this site existed then, I would hazard you would NOT see the level of self-loathing projected outward against the Steelers by the Browns fans as you see at DBN, or hear on their local sports talk shows, etc.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Dec 30, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
You just can’t compare 15 years of not making the super bowl but by and large fielding competitive teams, and after winning 4 super bowls in many of the fans lifetimes who had to live through those 15 years, vs what Browns fans have to endure.
I stand by if the Steelers all of the sudden sucked and went on a horrifyingly bad run for an extended period of time, not only would the fanbase shrink dramatically, many of the ones who stuck around would be some of the most miserable football fans anybody has ever experienced.
You may think that Steelers fans are so much better than Browns fans. Personally, I don’t think so at all.
You missed my main point...
…and that was, prior to the 70’s, the Steelers were worse than the current Browns are now, and yet the Steeler fans had the reputation as tough, but fair minded, loyal to a fault to their Steelers, and self-deprecating. You can not possibly say the same for the current Browns fans’ reputation.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Dec 30, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think anyone ever argued that Steeler fans are so much better. Hell, I’m pretty sure that a lot of Steeler fans hate certain types of Steeler fans too.
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
well. I can’t speak for them. I don’t get that impression though. I don’t think them thinking the Browns fans are scum necessarily says they think Steeler fans are better.
You can have one without the other.
That said, if all I had to go by was looking at DBN, and BTSC…then yes..I can say I would wholeheartedly agree that Steeler fans are superior. However..that’s just based off the two sites.
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
Exactly
Right. Fans come to BTSC to share their pride. Fans go to DBN to spew their hate. It’s the current teams standings that dictate this. Still, I don’t think true Steeler fans would act as the Browns do towards us.
"Hey number 16! I'm coming to kill you and there ain't nothing he can do about it!" -James Harrison to Matt Cassel on his RT during the 08' beating of the Pats.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 30, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I don't get that at all, except...
…if you are comparing the over all tenor of the two blog sites, in which case you would be hard pressed NOT to think the BTSC bloggers are superior to the DBN bloggers. At least here we get multitudes actually having conversations, debates, arguments. When visitors come, they are, for the most part, treated with courtesy until they cross a line. At DBN, the attacks came unprovoked. I did receive a couple of decent responses, but the magnitude of vitriol was such that I just lost it and got myself banned for honestly calling myself a Troll and responding, in kind.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Dec 30, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t agree that visitors here are treated well. They are treated well as long as they kiss the Steelers asses and say positive things. But dare to criticize a Steeler player or claim they have better players or a better team, and watch people attack
Yes, you will get knee jerk reactions...
…but I"ve seen just as quickly, other BTSC posters jump to the visitor’s defense, against the jerk BTSC attacker.
I’m not saying Steeler fans are perfect, nor am I saying everyone on BTSC is a saint, but you cannot compare the Steeler fan base and the Brown fan base, based on their respective fan sites, and, I find it specious at best, to say that if the teams’ respective histories were reversed, the Steeler fans would be as miserable as the Browns’ fans.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Dec 30, 2011 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
wrong
other team fans whom come and give debate or opinion are treated like any steeler faithfull…on the other hand….loud mouths showing up on game day to do nothing but antagonize are treated accordingly…. like a rival walking into a steeler bar…. ….
by OR69faithfull on Dec 31, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Well we are superior to the Browns
The last 40 years prove it. Not to mention the team has done squat since coming back to the NFL and think their team can take on the world. It’s a pathetic fanbase and I stand by my comments.
Pittsburgh Sports: Creating sports history and legends since 1887.
Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee
Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Pirates and Steelers, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football club in the land: Manchester United.
All hail Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Emilio Renteria, Wayne Rooney, Nemanja Vidic, Phil Jones, Javier Hernandez and Nani for their brilliantness, defence and talent.
The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.
The Boston Celtics Basketball Club: Searching for Banner 18 since 2008. One of these days well get it....hopefully.
by Bradley James McEachern on Dec 31, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
In all honesty
I’m tired of seeing bandwagon fair weathered fans as much as any other real fan on this site. When our window closes (and I pray it doesn’t ever) and we start having .500 seasons the crap fans will leave. But I will never talk bad about the Steelers. They’ve a loyal fan base because the FO cares about it’s fans. The Rooneys care about their fans. The Browns FO doesn’t. The Bengals FO doesn’t. I don’t think I’m better than any loyal fan to any team winning or losing. I’m just blessed to have been raised a Steelers fan and see my team in 4 super bowls winning 2. Win lose or tie. Pittsburgh Steelers till the day I die.
"Hey number 16! I'm coming to kill you and there ain't nothing he can do about it!" -James Harrison to Matt Cassel on his RT during the 08' beating of the Pats.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 30, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Ok,
Ya’ caught me cheering…but as a whole, I don’t generally do that..usually. ;)
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
I already hate them
and they stank. And in the mid to late 80’s the roles were reversed….it was horrific…but we endured. I know that someday we will not dominate as we have the last 15 years or so. I also know that our down periods will not last forever…and that I will be just as dignifed in defeat as I am in victory. The problem with the ass hats I have run into is that they have no idea how to lose with grace…and even less of an idea of how to win with it.
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
You’re really comparing 5 years from 85-89 in which the Browns went 7-2 vs the Steelers, yet didn’t win a single super bowl, as a comparison to what is going on now? Really?
Wow.
It seems like it lasted a lot longer than that. If I hear someone sing “Bernie Bernie” again I may go into a sudden and unexplained rage.
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
Who the hell cares what any of them think?
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
I know I don't.
Pittsburgh Sports: Creating sports history and legends since 1887.
Ovechkin-Leich-Semin: The greatest line in hockey..............................Tee Hee
Proud supporter of the following clubs: Pittsburgh Penguins, Pirates and Steelers, Erie Otters, Columbus Crew, Boston Celtics and the best football club in the land: Manchester United.
All hail Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Emilio Renteria, Wayne Rooney, Nemanja Vidic, Phil Jones, Javier Hernandez and Nani for their brilliantness, defence and talent.
The Manchester United Football Club: Winning countless trophies and making City fans jealous and full of envy since 1902.
The Boston Celtics Basketball Club: Searching for Banner 18 since 2008. One of these days well get it....hopefully.
by Bradley James McEachern on Dec 31, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
he’s obviously old enough to have multiple kids. He has a pic in his profile, and if I’m not mistaken a kid that either recently entered the service or finished his 4 year commitment. I think it’s safe to assume that the “they started it” was for humor
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
Thanks for remembering!
My son is in the Navy, but home for Christmas! The kids got me a football signed by Jack Lambert for Christmas. Way cool.
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
Um yeah...
That was actually for humor..Good catch Frank. Tongue firmly planted in cheek. I’m gonna’ pull out a phrase here…I beleive that Arn will laugh when he reads it…
I live in Ohio…and some of by best friends are Browns fans,,,,,
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
You remind me of a guy in my neck of the woods, Browns fan
who wouldn’t say anything to Steelers fans unless and until the Steelers were trailing late in a game (something of a rare happening), then he would start taunting folks….Punk!
by Ivan Cole (RickVa) on Dec 31, 2011 1:50 AM EST up reply actions
Explanation
Referencing Ohio’s experience with Browns fans.
by Ivan Cole (RickVa) on Dec 31, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
Btw I agree with what PaVa said in items 2 and 4, although to say other wins mean nothing to them is obviously not true at all.
I am so grateful that I happen to have been born and raised the fan of a team that is so well run, and is so competitive every year. I know for a fact Browns fans are tremendously frustrated by their team and organization, and those really are great reasons to pity them.
although to say other wins mean nothing to them is obviously not true at all.
I don’t know man, it seems like it should be obvious that it’s not true…but I actually think he’s right. I’ve heard this many many times. I’ve seen it at DBN. Maybe before the season starts it’s not true, but after 2 or 3 games go by, and it’s obvious it’s the same ole’ Browns….
As I tried to say but probably didn’t say properly. I don’t generalize teams by a few bad apples. Browns fans are different. When talking to my brother in law, he’s a Brown fan, but not “one of them” For him, yes I have pity. I wish for him to get to see a successful season, I wish they could turn it around. Then I go to a bar, or go online, or whatever, and see one Brown fan…that goes right out the window.
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
One Brown fan
Is that like one blue fan….or gasp…one black fan? lol.
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
Can't argue with you there
I think they are frustrated and quite a lot of them turn that frustration into venemous hate. Not all of them….I am sure your friends are quite civil. But my experiences with people outside of the ones I know peersonally have generally been negative. No level headed thinking, no intelligent football discussions or playful banter, just rude and crude name calling, taunting, and insults. I have come to expect nothing less.
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
I grew up outside of Pittsburgh...
…and made the road trip to Cleveland to see the Steelers several times. I spent a lot of time in Ohio, around Cleveland, Youngstown, Akron, in my youth. I now live in northern virginia. The only good thing I can say about Browns fans is that they are vastly superior to Redskins fans, who have suffered as much losing as the Browns since child-king Snyder took over, but show no where near the loyalty or dedication to their team as the Browns fans do.
I can say with a straight face, that Browns fans, the vast majority of them, are as obnoxious, depressed, mean spirited and down-right miserable, as has been characterized here. I have nothing wrong with someone being a loyal, but decent and open minded, Browns fan, and I know several. But they are the minority. Normally, I would not presume to think that the cross-section of fans who participate in a blog such as BTSC or Cincy Jungle represented the majority of the fan base of that team, except for the Dawgs By Nature blog site. What you see there is what you get for the most part as Browns fans. Again, there are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions; DBN is more the norm.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
I am closer to Cleveland for what it's worth.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Dec 31, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
You nailed it, MR......
…spent three years in Cleveland in the 70’s. Purgatory. Sort of like being a big fish in a cesspool.
Was at the game when Turkey Jones augured Bradshaw into the ground. It was as awful a play as I’ve ever seen.
That said, I felt sorry for the Clevelanders when Modell moved the team. The inability to beat Cleveland twice a year interrupted the four part rhythm of our lives.
In our family, there was no clear line between religion and football. Autumn Sunday afternoons were always given over to Steeler football, and, like you, we believed in the four part rhythm of life. Beat the Browns once. Beat the Browns again. Make the playoffs, and win the Lombardi.
Eventually, all things merge into one, and two wins over the Browns run through it. I am haunted by water, cold winds and the memory of that night in 2009.
I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson
by Homer J. on Dec 30, 2011 7:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I like right in the heart of Pittsburgh (well, Crafton, a suburb, close enough), and I don't hear or feel the hatred for Cleveland that I do for Baltimore.
The problem is a lack of a true equal rivalry since the 80’s. The Browns dominated for the most part in the 80’s, and for a brief year or two in the early 90’s, the competition was pretty even, but then the Browns moved to Baltimore and that’s been pretty much it for the rivarly. Yeah, sure, the new Browns came up and bit the Steelers a couple of times over the years, but not enough to make me feel like it’s a real rivalry anymore. It’s all about Baltimore for me right now.
Of course, the only way for it to become a real rivalry again is for Cleveland to become a legit team and start whipping the Steelers around. Hopefully, that won’t happen anytime soonn.
how old are you?
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
by maryrose on Dec 30, 2011 8:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Rivalry at its best
I remember in the 70’s, horrific winters and when the Browns came to town, PennDOT opted out of plowing the PA Turnpike between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. The road hazard signs were all Steelers: “You’re in Steeler Country” “Welcome to the end of your season.” etc.
Oh yes… it’s a rivalry.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
The Brown truth
The Browns are hard to call a rival simply for the fact that they’re a division 3 high school football team. Of course if we play them 2 times a year they will win 1 game per decade. They can celebrate that win all they want. We own them because their organization is garbage from the ground up. Terrible decision making from the players to the FO. The purple Browns on the other hand have modeled their franchise after the greatest franchise in the NFL, ours. I respect the shit out of the Ravens but god do I hate them. I feel blessed that the Steelers have a division foe to keep us sharp twice a year. As Mike T said “Iron Sharpens Iron.” The Browns are hard for me to hate, considering I’ve only been a fan for about 15 years. I truly believe they could have been a better organization if they didn’t decide to try and resurrect a team that left for B-more. They could have called themselves something different and maybe wouldn’t have been cursed the way they are. In any sense, they are not contenders so I don’t feel the hate for them. But, thank you MaryRose for shining some history on me. The Browns of old had our number for years but those Browns painted their helmets purple and sought to leave the crap hole known as Cleveland. Good for them. As for Cleveland fans, I feel sorry for them. The hate they feel for the Steelers is nothing more than jealousy. They can only dream of their upstart franchise being run the way the Black & Gold do. We will show them again and again who the best in the division is. And until the year comes where they can sweep us like the Ravens did, I won’t consider them rivals. Here we go Steelers Here we go!!
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 30, 2011 9:32 PM EST reply actions
Someone left the barn door open again..
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
I seems, over the years, the word “Browns” has evolved into more of a meaning than just for the team’s namesake.
well, to me, it’s evolved into a euphemism for going to the bathroom…as in…taking the browns to the super bowl..
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
I use that phrase every day to announce my bowel movements
No joke.
"Hey number 16! I'm coming to kill you and there ain't nothing he can do about it!" -James Harrison to Matt Cassel on his RT during the 08' beating of the Pats.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 30, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
My brother in law says it too…and he always follows it up with “about time someone did”
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
Haha.
nice.
"Hey number 16! I'm coming to kill you and there ain't nothing he can do about it!" -James Harrison to Matt Cassel on his RT during the 08' beating of the Pats.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 30, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
omg
that made me laugh out loud and wake my kids!!!
"We're in hell right now gentlemen...believe me...and we can stay here and get the (s) kicked out of us or we can fight our way back...into the light, we can climb out of hell, one inch at a time." - Al Pacino, Any Given Sunday
by VA6BurghFan on Dec 31, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Man this went down hill fast
By the way….I’m on twitter now @Robase66
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Yea, one Browns doodie...
…and the whole thing is contaminated.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Dec 30, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
what can I hope to get from your twitter feed?
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
Not much
I don’t know what I’m doing. May not be worth the trouble but I’m just putting it out there.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
TWSS
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Dec 30, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
oh snap
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
That was pretty good
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
well. I was hoping you could ‘rope me in" to the Twitter…because youza boss… But..now i’m just going to continue to stay away from it
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
you don't have a twitter?
By the way…. I only have 6 followers. One of them just unfollowed me. LOL!
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
hahahah…you got unfollowed…LOSER!!!!!! Now you’re just like Kelly Clarkson hehe
No..I hate twitter…HATE IT. I hate when espn reports what someone tweeted, I hate the fact that people’s entire interaction happens in less than 140 characters…I could go on, but won’t…I’m not a fan of that, or facebook.
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
I am no Kelly Clarkson
She can sing and I’m smart
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
hah
I have one follower and I don’t know why I have that one. I didn’t give anyone my twitter info.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Dec 31, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
I only
Have one myself, my fiance
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Jan 1, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Porn pushers follow you to hook you
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
porn is boring
so they aren’t going to hook me
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 1, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
lol
It’s so boring I haven’t seen it since I was a teen-ish. It was funny then. But there are people that take the bait.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Question.
If I have multiple twiter accounts, does that make me a twatter?
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
No, just a media whore.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Dec 30, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
It makes you busy prolly
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Dooooood
I got a bunch of hooches following me and then they all got banned. LOL
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Ouch. I think...
was that d/t Mrs. Arn?
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
man I don't know
I’m lost dude. Big Play Willie Gay answered my tweet. I think that’s appropriate since I have had his back from day one around here.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
he answered? What did he say? or..what did you say that he responded to?
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
Just talking about U of L basketball
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
I can vouch for that
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
Hey Arn...
I made a funny up above. Didya’ catch it?
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
No
I got lost up there
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Well it went like this
I live in Ohio…and some of by best friends are Browns fans,,,,,
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
I said that before.
I even have family member s that are Browns fans. Oh wait you want me to look for it.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Well..
To get the joke..in others to think its funny… you may want to read it in context. But I just said it cuz’ I remember you having said it a t me or two before. No biggie. I obviously thought it was more clever than it actually was. lol.
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
Oh I get it
Brown = black people hahahaha wait…..
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Um no..
but I like what you did there.
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
I'm still kinda frazzled from twitter
I’m crushed that I’m down to 5 followers from 6
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
well…if you want your followers to go up, just start bashing Lebron, or some other big name celebrity.
Use Lebron, you’d be up to 10k by the end of the night.
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
I like LeBron
We have something in common. Crushing the heart of Cleveland fans
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
just saying..if you want followers…that’s the way to go..
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
I don't want folowers
I’m just “monitoring”
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 30, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Lyin’ fool. lol
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
shhhhh
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
I like LeBron
We have something in common
Is your hairline receding too? lol
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
I don't have a hairline anymore
If I do I can’t see it from the front. I just shave my head lol
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Man
It’s good to be back. Been so busy lately I’ve only been able to browse. So many new contributors. Still the best Steelers Blog on the internet!!!
"Hey number 16! I'm coming to kill you and there ain't nothing he can do about it!" -James Harrison to Matt Cassel on his RT during the 08' beating of the Pats.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 30, 2011 10:40 PM EST reply actions
+7
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Dec 30, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
I want to agree with you maryrose...
…but just not quite on the same page about the Browns being our greatest rival. I think that designation died the day Modell left town.
I grew up in Pittsburgh in the 70s and remember my dad go on and on about hating the Brownies. Stories about bar fights with a guy dumb enough to come into the local Moose lounge with a Browns jacket on. I hated seeing Metcalf carve us up or see them playing Denver in the playoffs instead of us.
But when Modell took them out of Cleve and put them in Baltimore, for my family, the rivalry shifted immediately. We hated Modell and the Ravens instantly more because they demolished our rivalry virtually overnight. I actually felt bad-ish for the Cleve fans that next day after they announced it. Not everyone remembers, but there was a protest in Pittsburgh during the Browns/Burgh game. They suck, but they didn’t deserve that. That was all that city had for goodness sake.
I was happy-ish to see the Cleve fans get the new team, but only because a historic fanbase and a blue collar city like that (love em or hate em) deserved a team. It made things right again to some extent, but definitely not the same. Now it’s like seeing the old high school bully at a reunion in a hobbled state…I don’t mind him still calling me a name if it makes him feel better about himself, because I’ll clearly always be better off than him going forward.
Regarding the level of hate that Cleve or Balt fans have to the Steelers. Well, I do think the Browns have it hands down, based on historical and recent experience. I live south of DC and am surrounded by Ravens fans. They don’t like us for sure. But the two Browns fans that work with me. Wow. I didn’t even know they were fans until I wore a jersey to work one time, and for the past 10 years since, EVERY loss or misfortune on/off the field gets me more unprovoked shitmail than I have ever gotten combined from the Ravens fans, even in 2008 when we beat them 3 times or after last year’s AFCC meltdown. The Ravens fans and I give and receive trash equally to each other but I don’t even bother with the rage filled Browns fans.
So if hatred towards the Steelers defines rivalry, then yes, IMO the Browns are that team. But if we consider that the definition of rival suggests a struggle between two that are near equal…equal in hatred towards each other and and equal in competition, for the past decade and a half…that is Baltimore in my book.
Thanks for the wonderful post!
"We're in hell right now gentlemen...believe me...and we can stay here and get the (s) kicked out of us or we can fight our way back...into the light, we can climb out of hell, one inch at a time." - Al Pacino, Any Given Sunday
Good analysis
I’m not old enough to remember much of the original Browns, but I still regard the Ratbirds as the “real Browns” and ten times more loathsome for having abandoned their fans, and adopted the persona of their murder-capitol city.
This is what I was hoping to find.
The reality is that the Ravens are the rivals from yester-year, just re-packaged in purple. The Browns may have the name, but it’s far from the franchise that those of us a little older remember.
just remember...
if it’s brown…flush it down. I hope Harrison punishes these clowns again. lol. GO STEELERS!!!
by SteelersFnRule on Dec 31, 2011 10:03 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for Performing a Valuable, Necessary Service, Mary Rose
Thanks for performing a valuable, necessary service. Institutional memory is important. If you doubt that, then look no further to the Rooneys, who don’t hit the panic button when a bad year, or a couple of bad years, hit them.
They know what true losing and futility is like.
You’re right, a lot of younger fans don’t really seem to know or understand the nature of the Steelers-Browns Rivalry.
As I wrote in commerating the 1989 Steelers victory at Cleveland Stadium, the hatred between the Browns and the Steelers was hard-wired into those players DNA’s.
So educating the newer generations of fans in Steelers Nation is an important task which you have been diligent in performing, at least as long as I’ve been reading this site.
But with that said, I have to agree with Tony Defeo above.
For me, the Steelers-Browns rivalry has never been the same since Art Modell ripped the heart out of Cleveland’s civic culture and moved the Browns. That move was just so fundamentally wrong on almost any level you can imagine. (Full disclosure, as a native Marylander I would have been a fan of and NFL expansion team in Baltimore, esp. had that team been slotted in the NFC. But there is no way I could support a Baltimore team given the way they got them.)
Yes, I know the NFL attempted to make things right by putting a team back in Cleveland, which was the least they could do.
But the truth is the Steelers-Browns rivalry has never been the same. I know, they gave us an horrible upset in 1999 and another in 2000, and then some playoff games in 2002.
But even with that, it always seemed to be different.
Interesting point about the Steelers and the Ravens, about what happens when one or both teams fall into decline. Having been away from MD for 10 years now, it is hard to say….
by Hombre de Acero on Dec 31, 2011 11:33 AM EST reply actions
By the way
I’m in the crowd that remembers when Steelers vs Browns was THE RIVALRY in the NFL. I still see it that way. Like you said if either the Ravens or Steelers should dip, it wouldn’t be considered a rivalry anymore. But Browns Steelers will always be. Along the same lines is the pockets of time the Bengals and Steelers battled it out. It still never became a rivalry. It’s just a series against division opponents.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Browns Leaving Cleveland
Several posts have indicated that the Steelers-Browns rivalry has not been the same since Art Modell took the Browns out of Cleveland. That is true, but I don’t think the Browns taking a 3-year hiatus is the reason you think the rivalry has declined. I think the real reason is that the Browns have not been good since their return in 1999, which happens to coincide with the hiatus. Let’s say the Browns came back in 1999 and within a couple years they became really good, and let’s say Baltimore and Cleveland switched places in the standings since 1999. Would you really say that Art Modell taking the Browns out of Cleveland had anything to do with anything?
The real reason that many people define rivalries is simply both teams being very good at the same time. I understand that, but I contend that when people define rivalries in that manner, those rivalries are fickle. They fade as quickly as they arrive when one team becomes bad. The truest and purest rivalries are not solely dependent on both teams being good. Oregon-Oregon State, Army-Navy, Pittsburgh-Cleveland, etc. Those rivalries transcend temporary fads. They rely on things much deeper than two teams currently being good. They rely on geography and tradition and other similarities that bind two teams into a holy war so to speak.
I define the best rivalries by asking the question, what if one team was good and the other bad? Then what? Rather than fickle, trend-of-the-moment battles featuring two good teams, the best rivalries rise above that. The Steelers and Browns prove that. Even with one team being poor, the hate still burns passionately. No way on earth that happens if either Pittsburgh or Baltimore falls on hard times. No chance whatsoever that one team considers the season finale a Super Bowl when it is 4-11. And if by chance Auburn and Alabama are both undefeated, or Army-Navy (never again) or Michigan-Ohio Sate or Pittsburgh-Cleveland, then it takes on even heightened meaning.
Pittsburgh-Baltimore is the rivalry du jour, simply because both teams are good during these recent years. Pittsburgh-Cleveland is a rivaly much deeper, one for the ages, one that will never fade. The hate is permanent and unwavering, not some fickle what-have-you-done-for-me-lately rivalry.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
The only aspect with this with which I disagree, is that I believe the rivalry with Baltimore is now permanent. Even if one team got bad. For a new generation of Steelers and Ravens fans, that is the rivalry. Even if the Browns rivalry regains its strength, the Ravens rivalry will remain. It’s now ingrained
Interesting. If we are 4-11, I would not want to beat Baltimore in the last game any more than I would want to beat anyone else. When it comes to Cleveland, if the Russians came to Cleveland and played the Browns, I would buy one of those Russian winter hats, a fifth of Stolichnaya and root like a mad-man for the visitors.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
Baltimore Browns
Very good points Tim, and I agree with them as far as what makes a real rivalry. To bring the point further to life, the Redskins-Cowboys rivalry has roots to the fact that the Redskins were at first the team of the south, and the Cowboys were interlopers on that territory.
But if we a agree then, then I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree on the impact of 1995.
I grew up in MD, raised in a household headed by two Pittsburghers who’d grown up in Brentwood-Baldwin. But they weren’t sports fans and/or particularly interested in the Steelers, unless we were in the Super Bowl.
But when I started taking an interest in the Steelers out of my own accord, in the late 1980’s, I kind of instinctively knew that the Browns were the enemy, even if Jerry Glanville and the House of Pain got most of the ink.
I used to write on my calendar, “Browns Die in the Blast Furnace” when the schedule came out.
But something changed on that awful day in 1995 when Art Modell confirmed that he was moving the team. If you’ll remember, the Browns first game after that was in Pittsburgh. And seeing Three Rivers Stadium there, with so many wearing arm bands in solidarity with the Browns, I mean that was kind of wired.
I mean, for as much as I hated the Browns, hated Cleveland Stadium (which seemed to be cursed for Pittsburgh) I felt sorry for them, knowing that they were being wronged (unteen years of consecutive sellouts, highest ratings in the league at the time), and knowing that it had to be as bad for them as it would be, if God Forbid, the Steelers were to leave Pittsburgh.
And as I said, that changed the nature of the rivalry for me, in spite of some of the fireworks that accompanied the Browns return to the NFL in 1999.
As I said in my first post, I see your point and I agree with you on a lot of it, and I do think it is important to “educate” people about this part of the Steelers heritage.
But as a fan my experience with the rivalry has been different since that day in 1995.
by Hombre de Acero on Dec 31, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Tim, I totally understand what you're getting at. I'm struggling with it though, to be honest.
I seem to find myself falling in the “older” segment of the followers here. By older I mean the “pre-move” days. Growing up in the early 70’s, I recall the times whenever Brian Sipe walked on the field, and everytime he did the adrenaline went up. Ozzie Newsome, who killed everyone back then, was the guy who I wanted to see double and triple-teamed. They played us pretty well back then, and as you pointed out, they did even better against us in the 50’s and 60’s. That organization, that team, those players, all left and moved to Baltimore. To me, the rivalry against the “Browns,” went with them. Right down to Ozzie going south and becoming the GM.
This version of the Browns only shares the name and uniforms. The players are different, the FO is different, and dollars to donoughts, I bet the city of Cleveland isn’t as tuned into this group – though getting better acquainted – as they were the group that moved.
Are the Cleveland Browns one of our rivals? Yes, sir. But I’m sturggling with the thought of them being the same rivals. I don’t see it from the standpoint of these Browns not being competitive, I think it’s more-so that the historical Browns changed colors to purple.
My take on this, is that the city rivalry of Cleveland & Pittsburgh may well be as intense as it ever was…but the football rivalry is not quite in the same class (yet).
Ironically, I have wonder how the folks in Baltimore feel about the old Colts rivalries, and how that compares to their Ravens.
Great topic, by the way, just look at all of the replies to this. Well done!
Many of your thoughts I find sound...
I think in reading some pretty harsh head banging on this thread, the rivalry you speak of is more fan base then franchise based….
For me, I never had a rivalry with a fan bases…to be sure over my life, certainly with close friends fans of other teams…
My rivalry mindset is franchise, coach, and player related… Ive always given another fan base their just praise when earned…
Specific ownwership, coach’s or players on certain teams whom seem to have our number raise my rivalry terrible towel… as much as Malor rubs my a** at times, if he were fortunate enough to get to and win the show, I would tip my hat briefly….but my bow ends there…
I am guessing you don’t live in Youngstown, Canton, Akron, New Castle, Sharon or any other town that dots the turnpike between Pittsburgh and Cleveland. People whi live in those towns can attest to the fan-based rivalry. if you are outside the geography, you cannot feel the fan-based aspect of it. Kids in school, fans in bars – half Hatfields and half McCoys. I’m telling you, go over to the Browns web site of SB Nation. Pittsburgh and Baltimore are equal threats to the Browns, and in fact, Baltimore is the pace Modell took his team from Cleveland, yet you will find 100 times the hate and vitriol against Pittsburgh there than you will against Baltimore.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
Correct
though I have been a loyal steeler fan since 69 and been to many venues watching steeler games round the country… seems to me the hate you describe is seeded in immaturity….and youth… and if 50+ yr old men and women still carry that torch only further confirms that point…
What in particular has a fan Ive never met who supports another organization ever done to warrant hate…on the other hand… A Rex Ryans mouth, a Bill Belichicks spygate, or a Tom Brady having our number year in and year out brings the things you describe to mind…not that teams fan base…… my view anyway… thanks for the write up…
by OR69faithfull on Dec 31, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Proximity makes a difference
It’s the same thing in college in the NC triangle area between fans of NC State, UNC, and Duke. I pretty much feel the same way about UNC that you do about the Browns.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Dec 31, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Food for thought
for cleveland based fan sentiments..
Longest professional team championship drought in any sport
winner- SD 47yrs
runner up- Cleveland 46yrs
Let me lay it out simple
Fans of old remember the Browns beating the snot out of us on a regular basis. We then emerged in the 70’s and beat the snot out of them on a regular basis. Hence where the storied rivalry comes from. That Browns team is now called the Ravens. The new Browns team is a pushover and young fans, such as myself, have a hard time calling them rivals because of their current level of competition. Yes the fan base is still the same group from Cleveland. But year after year of watching their new “Browns” struggle, they have channeled most of their energy into hate towards Steelers Nation. I get that. I think in summary, the Steelers fans of old have to understand that the Browns they hated as kids are now the Ravens. The franchise that currently resides in Cleveland is not the same team they rooted against. Merely a mirage. Because of this we have the disagreement. The fans of the Cleveland franchise will always hate the Steelers. So let’s just say the Steelers and the fans of any NFL team in Cleveland will always be a storied rivalry. Love your work Maryrose. Thank you for everything you contribute to this blog.
"Hey number 16! I'm coming to kill you and there ain't nothing he can do about it!" -James Harrison to Matt Cassel on his LT during the 08' beating of the Pats.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 31, 2011 9:22 PM EST reply actions
I think it’s safe to say I hate em both. I was around for the “old” rivalry and while I may look to see where the Ravens fall on the new schedule first (only because they are the rival that is the most sound in strength) I certainly look for the Browns because they were, are and ever shall be the original enemy of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I want them to lose every single game they ever play because they ARE the Browns.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
Happy New Years 1Blk!…
Oh yeah…and F the Browns…
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
Happy New Years, Frank!
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
Happy new year
And flush the Browns? Lol
"Hey number 16! I'm coming to kill you and there ain't nothing he can do about it!" -James Harrison to Matt Cassel on his LT during the 08' beating of the Pats.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Jan 1, 2012 10:05 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Same to you SoCal! Nice to see you posting again! Flush ‘em, toss ’em, smash ’em… doesn’t matter to me as long as we take care of the “business”. lol
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
this
Happy new year lady
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Jan 1, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you sir and right back at you! Can hardly wait for the games today!
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
I get the idea of trash talking your opponent, but I have never understood why people feel the need to extend that garbage past the team to other fans or cities on such a personal level. And I would never root for any player to get hurt. The Browns “fans” that do nothing but spew hatred are actually an embarrassment to me. That being said, I grew up in Cleveland and currently live in Erie, PA which is a predominantly Steelers town, and I have been on the receiving end of a lot of crap from Pittsburgh fans. I’m not going to guess about percentages, but I know it exists both ways. But my experience in either direction is that the loudmouth jerks are generally the minority, and most fans are generally good-natured in their ribbing of the opposing team and their fans. Hell, even though I am hoping the Browns pull off an upset on Sunday despite the damage to the draft order, once the playoffs start I’ll be cheering for Pittsburgh. If my team can’t go the distance, I want my division to represent.
by BrownsFanAlways on Dec 31, 2011 11:49 PM EST reply actions
I'd say good-luck tomorrow, but I think you know that score already....
Well put thoughts. I feel the same way about having the division represent; as much as I can’t stand the Ravens, if (heaven-forbid) the Steelers don’t make it, I respect the Ravens enough to want them to finish the job.
now..if you could go share those same sentiments at Dawgs by Nature…
I’ll just give you a quick preview…you’ll be banned…banished…hated, despised..however you want to slice it. Just go look at the top 3 stories there. Click em…Read the comments…
These miserable people will ban you for using the subject line…they are that sad.
People like you..I can never have anything against. And i go in to every situation assuming the person I am encountering is just like you. But my fuse is short.
You are in the minority (in my experiences, as a person that has lived in NW Ohio for quite some time) As OhioYinzer has stated, and I’ve stated..it’s too much to ignore. It gets way too serious with certain people. As I’ve stated, I almost got roped in to a fight just because some loud mouth browns fan overheard me talking about the Steelers. The event in question was the Harrison hit.. I wasn’t even defending it..just saying “how on Earth did no one on the Browns sideline notice he was dazed..I noticed it on tv” That’s my experience…that is far more normal than meeting someone like you. i’m sorry.
This is the problem with the Flacco hate, people don’t really know who he is as a person. - Mr. Malor. Crazy Raven fan/possible stalker.
It smells like seven layers....that beaver eats Taco Bell.
Great response.
Hope you and yours have a great 2012.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
I'm sorry, but it's hard to drum up a lot of hate for the Browns, I just pity them too much to hate.
They claim this rich, deep, football heritage and history, yet that heritage and history was never earned, it was given to them by lawsuit. That team in Cleveland is an expansion team, no better than the Jacksonville Jaguars, only the Jaguars have a longer history and more playoff success. Do Ravens fans claim Johnny Unitas’s records, no, why not? He played in their city. The Colts leaving was just as traumatic for the city of Baltimore as the Browns leaving was for Baltimore. They don’t do it because the city of Baltimore didn’t sue to keep the name and records just so they could pretend later on that everything was still the same. They took their loss, moved on like most grown-ups do, and years later, were able to start fresh with a new team.
The whole thing reminds me of when my sister’s kid lost her pet beagle, Max. Max got off his leash and just ran away one day. My niece was very distraught over losing her dog, so my sister and I bought a new beagle, named it Max, and tried insisting to her that it was the same dog. She didn’t buy it for a second. Maybe if we lived in Cleveland, we would have had an easier time convincing her, but then again, Cleveland fans know this team isn’t the same one Jim Brown, Eric Metcalf, and Bill Cowher played for. They just choose to be stupid about the facts. And that’s why I can’t hate the Browns (Homer J. help me), because they’re too pathetic to hate.
The cleveland browns actually think they should have the status and great victories that the Steelers have.
They compare their team to the Steelers and I think it’s laughable. They’ll never have the kind of leadership that the Steelers do, so they’ll never be able to compare. No browns fans, you do not deserve to enjoy AFCN Titles and Superbowl trips. Your team sucks and you need to shut up and learn to live with it.
Jealous, whiney asshole fanbase. Hate ’em. And they do stank.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
Franco Harris:
"If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time."
You know worldtrip, sometimes fans like to make statements with some hyperbole on their own fan website
without being harassed by the PC Police. This is a story about an old rivalry with everyone sharing their opinions on a division rival. What do you expect to see?
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
Franco Harris:
"If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time."
Did you feel harassed by my comment that never is a long time?
What do I expect to see? Nothing in particular, but if you are commenting about a subject in an open forum such as this, you should also expect that people might respond to your comments.
I've just seen a lot of the exact same types of posts from you as the years go by. I was expecting your remark actually.
I don’t want to argue with you excessively though. We each do our own things around here. I’ll keep ragging on opposing teams and fan bases when I feel they deserve it and you can keep ragging on Steelers fans when you think they deserve it.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
Franco Harris:
"If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time."
I’m not sure who you’re talking about…both my friends and myself are fully aware that the Browns suck right now, but thinking about the good ol’ days helps ease the pain a bit. We also know that eventually we’ll get better personnel and we’ll be able to compete, even if it’s still a long ways away.
And EVERY fan, for every team, deserves to have there team win their division and make it to the Superbowl. Despite negative attitudes from others.
by BrownsFanAlways on Jan 1, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'm talking about the dozens of idiots I've met and the 1000s of comments I've read.
My decision is made on that fanbase. However, I realize there will be some outliers such as yourself. Nothing is absolute, but the browns’ fanbase is a bunch of garbage. IN MY OPINION of course. No one is going to change that opinion. And I want browns fans to SUFFER. Again, my opinion. Not changing.
Regarding competing and getting better, I expect an ebb and flow of quality from the browns, but they will not have the level of consistency the Steelers have achieved. They’re not set up like that.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
Franco Harris:
"If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time."
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