The O-Line
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 6, 2011 2:56 PM EST
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PrintI have been looking VERY closely at the O-Line lately and I want to know if you guys(gals) agree with my assessment. Remember, I don't get to see every steeler game because I am in NYC, but I do have the "red zone". So here goes. RT Marcus Gilbert in what I have seen has/is making excellent progress. Him and foster work well together and will push Colon for the starting RT next year. LT Max starks has been pretty good and still gets beat to quicker guys on the outside at time. Overall, a HUGE improvement over J. Scott, which I am still pissed was handed the starting LT job to start the season. Consider that Suggs got 6 sacks VS him in 2 games!! RG foster is more than adequate especially run blocking, less effective in pass blocking. LG Kemo, a DISASTER in pass protection, who constantly gets beat inside, but still remains a very good pulling guard. C pouncey, a down year from last year..injuries? But clearly our best O-line man..gets to the second level and finishes off blocks well. G/C Legs, Ok until he wilts VS Ngata due to being over powered, Kemo is better VS Ngata but Legs has heart, but not the tools to handle beasts like that.
Here is my solution for the upcoming year..I know its premature, but here it goes
1. Sign the best FA left guard we can find to solidify the A gaps, which is where we are weakest, still draft an O-line man in the second round(need to replace Snack soon)
2. move colon to RG and leave Gilbert there one more year before moving him to LT
2. Keep starks another year..
final result:
Starks, FA, pouncey, colon, gilbert
Not too bad!
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I don't see us bringing in a FA as a starter at guard.
Colon, I have no idea, we will have to see what he looks like when he shows up at camp next year. We have a fairly solid line at the present, I do imagine we bring in a rookie to compete at LG. I do not think we will reach for one early in the draft. But when BPA is working for us, we then take one anywhere from 2nd to 4th round. This rookie will hopefuly be able to pass block well and be athletic enough to get down field on running plays.
I still say we draft
a guard in the second round who can start. I don’t see us going FA for the line, its too expensive and if it doesn’t work out it really bites you. Whereas a rookie is a lot cheaper and if he doesn’t work out, you can still develop him.
Colon is never moving to RG, Gilbert will be a guard before colon is.
I’d sign starts to a 3 year deal, He isn’t that old.
All this group needs is one more star and its set if we can find that guy in the second round we’d be set on the line for a couple of years.
I love the Steelers.
this
Colon has never been a guard, Gilbert has.
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 6, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Colon has lost a lot of value.
His spot in the lineup has gone from pen to pencil. Until he proves that he can stay healthy, I’m not depending on him at tackle. Why not see what he does at guard?
Why not?
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 6, 2011 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
again
Colon has never played guard, Gilbert has. Also at a presser someone asked about Colon moving to gaurd and the answer was no, never. Trying to learn a completely new position is a long stretch. Others on the team that have position flexibility played those positions in college. Flozell was a right takle before being moved to left takle. the guard positions are more similar to each other, just like the takle positions are similar (in asignment and execution). I don’t think that Colon in built right for a guard either.
Torch- I don’t think Colon has lost any value, yes he needs to prove he can stay healthy. The only way to do that is being on the field, asking him to learn to play an entirely new postion really handicaps him. I do think that he will have to earn the starting RT position in camp next season, however.
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 6, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think he lost some value
durability is something I value
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Dec 7, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
It's not like asking him to play cornerback.
Basic job is the same, only different assignments. And I’m not saying he must, just that we should see what happens.
As a former offensive linemen this is a gross generalization
Interior linemen have a much different set of responsibilities. These linemen must be required to pull. Have to be athletic enough to peel off a double team and get to the second level. In the 4-3 they have to be sound enough to take a DT on by themselves. They have to have their head on a swivel because stunts are common and confusing. They also have a greater responsibility of protecting the play side in all plays whether it is to there side or not. In pass protection they can not drop back cause that would collapse the pocket. Communication and chemistry between them and the center is probably the most important difference then the tackle. Tackle don’t have to communicate as much to be successful but the interior linemen need to communicate or there blocking won’t be as successful.
That being said their were analysts that said Colon would make a better guard then tackle and I agree. He has a great drive block stays low and is strong, He only struggle is the speed rush which wouldn’t be there at guard. I know Gilbert may be more likely to play guard but I think Giblet has better “nimbleness” for pass blocking then Colon.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
This
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Dec 7, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Duly noted
And I think I’ll stick to my belief that Willie Colon probably has some hint of an idea of how to play guard and do it well. I’m not saying there would be no learning/practice involved.
By basic job, I meant pass block and run block. Substitute your word ‘responsibilities’ for my word ‘assignments’ (sure that’s better) and my comment is pretty much a more concise version of yours. Or is that a gross generalization?
my point is it is about the same as saying a TE and a WR have the same basic job. Or a FB and a RB. In the National Football league each position has its own intricacy. There is a reason some WR can’t play both the Y, X and Z. Same with idea goes with defense there is a reason some corners can excel only in the slot and other only on the outside. The reason I said it is a “gross generalization” is because vastly over simplifies these intricacies.
Again I do not deny Willie Colon can learn the guard position I am just saying that the two position are more different then they seem.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
Right, I get that, but
I don’t like people pretending that asking him to play guard is like asking him to be an Olympic pole vaulter. It’s different, but not foreign.
who was
acting like you were asking Colon to be a pole vaulter. I simply stated a fact that he never has, and that the coaching staff has showed no interest in trying that. I don’t believe they would ask him to play guard because it is completely foriegn to him, where as Gilbert has played guard before so that would make far more sense.
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 8, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Haha, no definitely not completely -or even mildly- foreign
Are you saying you think Colon has absolutely no concept whatsoever of how to play the guard position and would be a miserable failure if he even attempted to play guard? If so, that’s my beef. If not, there is no argument.
A separate point to consider…If Colon goes down at RT again, that’s likely two changes needed- Gilbert back to T and someone in at G. If he goes down at G, we have several decent backup guards.
Again, I am not saying I know for a fact that Colon would be an excellent guard. I am saying since two seasons on IR have greatly reduced his value, why not…see…what…happens…at guard before we say he must remain at the more valuable T position?
probably bad
wording on my part, completely should have been left out. My point was more that having never played guard it is foriegn to him, where as Gilbert has played the spot before.
You make a good point about Colon getting injured again, but what ifs are never ending. If he had suffered injury to the same body part I might think he were injury prone, but I don’t. It is just as possible that Gilbert suffer a injury and the double move would have to be made if Colon were a guard.
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 9, 2011 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Ha didn't even notice the typo
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
I would say that i disagree
Did you get to watch last weeks game? Did you notice how good the running was against that pretty damn good front seven? Yeah, most of that was Legs and Pouncey.
Colon has been on IR for two straight seasons, I would hope they get a replacement.
I’d keep Starks for sure.
I can’t see them signing a big name FA, since they usually never do that.
I haven’t seen much of a problem with Foster.
Can anyone explain to me why I keep hearing that Pouncey has regressed, or hit a sophomore slump, or whatever? I have watched every game this year, and I don’t see anything that is much different than last year.
This message will self destruct
Who the hell's interrupting my Kung Fu? - Black Dynamite
With two D's, for a double dose of this pimpin'
steelers on the hook for far too much guaranteed money
to give up on Colon just yet. He’ll be around next year and given every opportunity to start.
Contact me at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com or michaelbean06@gmail.com with comments, suggestions, complaints, etc. Find BTSC on Twitter. Follow BTSC on Facebook for regularly updated content and commentary.
I wouldnt say give up on him..
I would move him to guard..Who knows if he can play,,missed the last 2 yrs
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 6, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
He is not a Guard
Get rid of that idea. I remember a Steeler coach saying a few years back that Colon has never taken one snap at a G position
Formerly known as Steeler_
BTSC's token Kiwi fan. That means I'm a New Zealander. Yes, that small country next to Australia....no we are not part of Australia
by Michael Hewitt on Dec 7, 2011 3:43 AM EST up reply actions
tunch ilkin
has also said colon has tackle skills, not guard skills. they do different things.
remember reading that too
Stay thirsty my friends.
by SteelerMessican on Dec 7, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Now thats saying something when you consider
That we usually draft versatile linemen. Colon in the eyes of Steeler coaches is obviously not a Guard, and I guarantee he never will be unless injuries force the matter
Formerly known as Steeler_
BTSC's token Kiwi fan. That means I'm a New Zealander. Yes, that small country next to Australia....no we are not part of Australia
by Michael Hewitt on Dec 8, 2011 3:04 AM EST up reply actions
Colon has as much chance at playing guard....
As Antonio Brown playing corner.
Stay thirsty my friends.
by SteelerMessican on Dec 8, 2011 6:25 AM EST up reply actions
Pouncey
I think people expected him to get even better than his rookie year. He had a great year last year, and what made it more impressive was that he was a rookie….and we had been suffering through some uneven center play for a while. From what I can see, he’s having solid year.
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
If Colon stays at RT Starks LT, Gilbert LG, Pouncey C, Foster RG, Colon RT
Or better to me.
Starks LT, Legs/Rookie LG, Pouncey C, Colon RG, Gilbert RT
If you buy a foreign made product you give money to a person who will not be buying an American made product that you get paid to make. Think about it next time you're at the store.
we have had a lot of successful FA signings..
Wolford from the bills, who played awhile for us and well too! I mention this because I don’t want BB getting killed with a rookie in the A-gap, right where ngata is!
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
Are you factoring in coaching
This is Kugler’s second year, right? I keep feeling better about our OL situation, even though they still have their moments. I think if they draft well, between talent and coaching I think it would be fine
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
i agree, Kugler is a keeper
i feel like if we get a high draft pick on a guard this year that Kugler could make an extremely strong trio with Gilbert and Pouncey, throw in Starks, Colon, Legs, and Foster and we’re set.
by steel.curtain.number2 on Dec 7, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
i think we can either resign starks or sign a FA guard
not both. i would love to draft a Guard early though and have a bit of a mosh pile of guys competing in camp. Gilbert and Starks compete for LT, loser competes with Colon for RT, loser of that competes with the rookie and Foster for one of the G spots. one guy will be left out, making him a great backup.
by steel.curtain.number2 on Dec 6, 2011 4:25 PM EST reply actions
I could
definitely live with this
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 6, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
one of the G spots. one guy will be left out
that is definitely nsfw
This message will self destruct
Who the hell's interrupting my Kung Fu? - Black Dynamite
With two D's, for a double dose of this pimpin'
I wish that was what it meant
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Dec 7, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
Legs might not have the size to handle a man beast like ngata
But as others have said, Legs has big heart, he’s a really smart player, and he is really good at pulling, maybe due to his smaller size. If you go back to the Pitt/cinci game last Sunday, there are multiple examples of fantastic pulling blocks by Legs. Mendenhalls first TD was due in part to a fantastic block by Legs. Our oline is looking the best it has all year with the current lineup. I’d say no to bringing in a FA. When Colon gets back and we draft a guard in the 1st or 2nd round we should be fine for next year IMO
by blitzzburgh on Dec 6, 2011 4:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
who knows if colon will ever play?
Plus, we have to be built to beat the ravens. They spent the whole offseason building a team to beat us. Not saying we do what the eagles did, but an immediate upgrade VS Ngata not to terrorize BB or mendy..
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
You make a good point about beating the ravens
But I think the first game of the season where the ravens destroyed us was sort of a freak occurrence. And we really shoulda won the second game, the offense and oline did their part, it was the defense that let us down in the end. We have too many talented players on the roster right now that need to be locked up long term to consider going after a big name FA. Personally I would like to see our oline play with the same starters for an entire season together to really gel before taking any drastic measures
by blitzzburgh on Dec 6, 2011 5:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Let the Ravens hire consultants to figure out how to beat the Steelers...
…and the Steelers should continue what they’ve been doing, long range planning wise; how can you argue against the success this past decade and 1/5th?
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
That said, I do think more OL drafts are in order, but BPA, as they always have.
In Colbert and Tomlin I trust.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
to keep beating them is key..
which we have not done this year.
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 6, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
true
but the second loss had nothing to do with the O line. The defense couldn’t stop unibrow when it mattered.
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 6, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
true
But we get the first down and even a touchdown on the last drive and we win the game.
that wasn't on the line
that was on DJ dropping a pass and a mis-communication between ben and moore and the coaches , rightfully so, not trusting swish.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Dec 7, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
This one was absolutely on the defense. (I’ll even pass a little to the “delay of game” we-weren’t-gonna-try-it-anyway non-FG attempt.) The O-line played a very, very good game.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
Stopping him wouldn't have mattered if
A) David Johnson didn’t have his penchant for doing stupid shit in big situations
B) Sushi could make a field goal outside of 35 yards
C) Sushi could be trusted to take a field goal outside of 35 yards when the game was on the line.
This message will self destruct
Who the hell's interrupting my Kung Fu? - Black Dynamite
With two D's, for a double dose of this pimpin'
"sushi"
I believe has the best FG % in team history
by Steely McSmash on Dec 7, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
So
you’re saying, based on that information that may or may not be true (I don’t know honestly). if the game is on the line, and a 42 yard field goal is necessary at Heinz field to go to the Super Bowl…you’re fine with that?
Do you mean best overall field goal percentage of any kicker that has played for us, or do you mean, best field goal percentage of any kicker while playing for the Steelers? Because either one sounds crazy. His percentage with the Steelers is around 82%, and his over all is 80. I have a hard time believing there is nothing better.
This message will self destruct
Who the hell's interrupting my Kung Fu? - Black Dynamite
With two D's, for a double dose of this pimpin'
surprising sushi
Norm Johnson 0.827
Shaun Suisham 0.821
Jeff Reed 0.819
Gary Anderson 0.782
Kris Brown 0.777
Bobby Layne 0.696
Roy Gerela 0.643
Of these kickers, Suisham has the best average from 40-49 yds.
Roy Gerela
was the bomb in his day. Placekickers in that era, with one or two notable exceptions, really were worse than Roy.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Dec 9, 2011 8:23 AM EST up reply actions
wins in the regular season are nice
but let’s just see who’s left standing between the two in the playoffs before we start talking about having to build up to beat the ravens.
agree with your post and comments
I would actually go a step further. I think that after this season and Gilbert is more comfortable they need to consider switching him and Starks. Gilbert is getting better with each game and is holding his blocks longer, especially on pass downs. He is definitely more athletic than Starks. Starks clearly has trouble with speed and has lost a step or two. Starks is good at initial contact and consuming the player, but when the player has some distance and can use their speed, Starks cant keep up. I think Starks would be fine at Right tackle, and that is where he used to be when he first started. Colon is on his downside and they cant afford to hope he may or may not get injured next year. Legs is versitle and probably the most athletic next to Pouncey, but he does struggle severly against Ngata. He did great for us against Raji in the superbowl, but Ngata is whole different beast.
I also agree we can pick up a decent FA in the offseason. We have had good luck in the past with FA’s. The ravens have excellent drafts and do draft to beat the steelers. Newsome does an excellent job and knows their needs and addresses those through the draft and FA. Kemo just cannot pass block and it costs us on too many downs. I think Foster is also a better run blocker and has gotten better at pass blocking. Some day, if we ever get a line that is two dimensional, pass blockers and run blockers, Ben will break alot of passing records, instead of a holding a bad record in the most sacked QB since 2004.
really?
Boldin? Evans? Mckinnie, girode, all FA pick ups..
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 7, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
let's see
- Evans wasn’t a free agent, Baltimore got him via trade. What has he done this year?
- McKinnie, the guy who Harrison got 3 sacks on a few weeks ago? no thanks
- gurode doesn’t even start, and was pretty horrible this season when he did
- a Boldin-caliber FA pickup is way too expensive for a cap-strapped Steeler team next year.
not ALL from the draft..
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 7, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
Did any of those guys beat us?
No it was Torrey Smith and Ed Dickson and both were drafted.
I'm getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
"It would be tough for me to care less about their opinion, to be honest with you." Mike Tomlin
Wrong on beating the Ravens...
we still have 12 other teams to beat and a team built to beat the Ravens does not guarantee making the playoffs…or doing well in them. I totally agree with PaVaSteeler here. The FO knows what it is doing…we are merely fans and dilletantes.
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo (1970)
Don't you dare speak his name...
With Pouncey as the center we do not mention the two before him.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
that was a "low end" FA
a real R/L Guard! Why not? That could be the missing piece we needed to win the Super bowl last year. Kemo missing way too many blocks, costly penalties, revolving door getting BB killed.
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
the starting
center being benched didn’t help.
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 6, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
I think you mean "broken ankle"
or on the bench..
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
should have
clarified “benched with injury”
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 7, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
draft a guard if a stud is available and he's BPA
but it’s not desperate since we already made a major upgrade at LG IMO when Kemo found the bench… and soon to be his rightful place off the squad. We probably do need a good guard next draft – but I’m just not so sure he will wind up playing LG. If nothing else we need another body to take Essux’s spot on the roster.
Gilbert may push Colon for the RT spot, but it really doesn’t matter since Colon will be on IR by week 2 and Gilbert will be playing anyways.
Legs cannot handle the big DTs
Not strong enough..didn’t week 1 show us that? Kemo, for all his faults did well against the ravens last month. MUCH better than Legs
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
and Kemo may very well start at RG
if we meet the Raven’s in the playoffs.
by steeler fever on Dec 7, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
week 1 showed us that none of the team played well
I’m not ready to throw Legs on the scrap heap for 1 bad game – especially considering the number of games Kemo has sucked.
Strength had nothing to do with it
Leg set 2 Marshall weight room records squat ( 705lbs) and hang clean (430lbs). The problem has more to due with his 32 5/8 inch arms and small 6-1 body frame. Ngata is noted for his long arms which means Legs can’t get full power on him and because of his smaller build to be think enough he has to be a little “fatter”. This puts excess weight around the mid section causing him to bend at the waist more then at the knees. Those are much bigger factors then Leg strength when going against Ngata.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
Comparison
Ngata bench max 505lbs and Squat max 600lbs and cleans 407lbs
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
this
Legs has T-rex arms
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Dec 7, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
God I wiffed on Shipley so bad
I thought the guy could play well enough to over come his physical deficiencies. I knew he had T-Rex arms and was undersized but I let the player he is affect my analysis of him. I thought Shipley could be a solid back up and eventually a starter. Boy was I wrong.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
that's exactly my point
Legs is plenty heavy and strong for the position. The length of his arms can be overcome by technique. Put the guy into 3 months of intensive Aikido training this offseason and I guarantee he’ll be a budding star in the league. Don’t know what the hell Aikido is? It’s a martial art based on leverage which turns your opponents energy against them (and also helps make openings where you can get to your opponent). If you can stomach the horrible acting, just watch a Segal movie and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
The point is that either by martial arts like this or other training – it is possible to take that weakness and turn it into a strength by learning the proper technique.
Never
Technique alone can not overcome the athletic deficiencies that a guy like Legursky has. His efforts are admirable but effort and results are not the same thing. He is very small by comparison and is not as good of an athlete as the guys around him. Ngata and other big NT/DTs will destroy guys who are giving up 50-70 lbs and who are similar or worse athletes.
The pulling guard of old is almost extinct. The Steelers and most teams still have an O Power or Counter Trey type of play in the book but that is only used maybe 5 plays a game. What do you do the other 95% of the time? You zone block and pass block primarily. Nowhere to hide in the middle of the line – you are going to be challenged and exploited. Legursky holds his own against lesser defensive tackles but will always struggle because he simply isn’t that good.
"Franz" in NoCal
A couple flaws in your statements
The first is he could know every technique in the book if he is going against guys who have 36" arms he will be unable to get his hands on them.
Martials arts help O-linemen and D-linemen a lot but not from grappling. Most of the Aikido moves would be considered holding or some other penalty. Martial arts however does help in the ability to get the opponents hands off of you. The quote “hand fighting” in the trenches.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
My ideal O-line for next year...( not counting the draft)
Starks-LT, Legursky-LG, Pouncey-C, Gilbert- LG, Colon-RT
Why?
Starks has a good chemistry with this line andmore importantly Ben trusts him. He will cost more then the vet minimum he got this year but I think he will be very affordable. Legursky is technically sound, understands plays and is athletic enough to get out infront of the RB on his pulls. He has plenty of strength and those of you who think that the problem may not know much about the O-line. His problem is his arm length. His shorter arms prevent him form keeping the defense from getting into his chest in the run and in the pass his shorter arm decrease the margin for error. If he plays perfect technique he can win against 80% of the DT in the league and the fact Pouncey can help with chips and I think he would be fine. (though I see the Steelers going for a guard in the first three rounds and this drafted will probably start at LG). Pouncey is a no brainer after a slow start this year he is back to Pro Bowl form. (my opinion) The real conundrum is at RG. I wen for Gilbert who has experience at guard. Despite my thinking that Colon would be better because of his strength and lower center of gravity when he play Gilbert has the chemistry with Pouncey. When you have that chemistry with your center it help exponentially. My best comparison is a QB and WR having chemistry things jsut go better. That leave Colon at RT. He be on the team with money and he is a above average tackle, with a better interior pocket I think the struggles of the tackle will be hidden more as Ben can step up.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
I like your lineup
and you can interchange Colon and Gilbert and I wouldn’t mind it at all. I do think we need another stud for the RG position though even with this… since Colon will most likely be on IR by week 3 if history is any indicator.
Legursky...
this guy is weak, he can’t stand up to the people he plays against in the AFC North. The Ravens draft people to compete against the Steelers players they match up against. We have to draft an OG who can match strength with Ngata and Legursky doesn’t fit…enough said
I wouldn't do that..
in the first round..FA guard, draft NT/SS in the first round, second round the guard/tackle
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 8, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Not a FA like..
Mahan, J. scott, who got manhandeled by suggs
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 8, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
This clearly states
“Not counting the draft” and " I see the Steelers going for a Guard in the first three round as a starter at LG"
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
And if you read above
Legs is clearly not weak actually stronger then Ngata in some lifts.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
We need another #1 pick.
There’s a reason why Pouncey is our best OL guy; he’s a #1 pick. Big Ben is our most valuable player. If we don’t do everything in our power to protect him and stop making him the NFL’s punching bag, we’re frickin’ crazy. The OL we have is better than I expected when the season began, but it’s not good enough yet. We need another thoroughbred guy to solidify the line.
I agree
You have to admit, there arent many great options when you draft in the high 20’s year after year though. Not for instant starters anyway
Formerly known as Steeler_
BTSC's token Kiwi fan. That means I'm a New Zealander. Yes, that small country next to Australia....no we are not part of Australia
by Michael Hewitt on Dec 8, 2011 3:06 AM EST up reply actions
That's true about our draft position.
Top OL guys are really coveted these days and most of the can’t-miss guys will be taken early. But I still say let’s get the best guy remaining on the board when we make our first pick. But, of course, it might turn out that it’s better to wait until the second round, based on who’s available, etc.
Would anyone trade up for G DeCastro ...
He’d probably go in the 15 to 20 range but scouts are saying that he is the best guard that they have seen in years. With that being said, my picks are:
1 – G/T Barrett Jones, Alabama
2 – NT Josh Chapman, Alabama
3 – FS Bacarri Rambo, Georgia
4 – ILB Audie Cole, N.C. State
5 – CB Asa Jackson, Cal Poly
6 – DE/DT Matt Conroth, UVa.
6 – DE/OLB Jacquies Smith, Missouri
7 – K Philip Welch, Wisconsin
by datruth4life2.0 on Dec 8, 2011 10:52 AM EST reply actions
I don't know about trading up, don't wanna lose the latter picks!
But i’ve heard the same things about DeCastro, at least by reputation he is already a Pro-Bowler. I think Iupati has been the highest guard drafted in the more recent drafts and he went 15th or so; Danny Watkins went 23rd last year so DeCastro probably goes around 15 to 18. The draft time is the only time, i wish we had a sorrier team
by TrueSteelerForLife on Dec 8, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Our Steelers just do NOT sign fa's
without a dire need like injury. Though the fa debate makes for a hundred interesting fan posts each year
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."
--Aristotle
If we get Ko'ed by the Ravens
a third time, and BB gets sacked 5 times, they will/better!
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
Thats a mighty big IF.
We need to improve along the line, even when, we whip the Hell outta the Ravens, in the playoffs.
by steeler fever on Dec 8, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
your mouth, to God's ears!
Just want to keep BB around long as possible. out of all the “elite” QBs, BB has the worst line!
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
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