2011 NFL Draft Analysis: Could The Cameron Heyward Selection Facilitate More Regular Deployment of 2-4-5 Base Defense By The Steelers In The Future?
The Cameron Heyward pick has me thinking. We have Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel - both excellent players, both drafted very low. Most teams running the 3-4 defense high don't value the defensive end position very highly - it doesn't produce a lot of sacks and generally serves the purpose of opening up lanes for the linebackers to make plays. As such, the prevailing opinion is that you can get by with lesser players at this position.
This is why the Heyward pick is so odd. A first rounder on the 3-4 defensive end position isn't necessarily unusual - we saw four (counting Dareus, who could play nose, and Heyward) in the first round this year, and this is after a guy like Tyson Jackson went in the top 3. This isn't even considering that guys like J.J. Watt and Cameron Jordan (who were dream 3-4 defensive ends) were projected very highly (though they went to 4-3 teams). Clearly the position is growing in importance, but why?
I think we need to focus on these defensive ends because of the growth of the spread offense. Examine our Superbowl foes and champions, the Green Bay Packers. They ran the nickel defense 55% of the time. For anyone not superb at math, that's over HALF the time. They had two down linemen, four linebackers, and five defensive backs on the field. Part of that was because, honestly, it was the best combination of their talent on defense. The big reason, however, was the need for fast and quick coverage guys to counter the growth of three and four receiver sets (which are now used a great deal in the NFL). It makes a lot of sense. When you have such great linebackers, you naturally want to drop a lesser position (which is defensive end in this scheme) to leave your primary pass rushers on the field to counter this defense while increasing coverage.
We saw this defense a lot this year, but not only from the Packers. I recall the Steelers running it frequently (though we ran it with inferior defensive backs, and suffered). I recall seeing a defensive set with two defensive ends (Ziggy and either Keisel or Eason) down with our four linebackers behind them. This set served the Packers very well and, strategically, makes a great deal of sense. It puts two decent pass rushers up front who can also occupy an extra blocker, free up your linebackers to blitz or drop into coverage. It's a fairly natural counter to the increase of the spread offense.
This is why the Heyward pick makes sense. I was initially skeptical, but I'm starting to believe it may have resulted (besides Heyward being the best player available) from the Steelers perhaps considering increasing the use of this scheme. It would certainly help us against teams like the Patriots or the Colts, both of whom we play this year (I'm desperately trying to get tickets to the Colts game, which is less than an hour north of where I go to law school) and whom we contend with each year for the top seeding in the conference. Putting a rapidly developing Ziggy Hood next to Cameron Heyward could give us an excellent pass rush/blocker occupying duo for the future while we run the nickel defense more often, and release our linebackers to blitz or drop into coverage. I feel like this could be the first signal in the shift from a base 3-4 to using the 2-4-5 more often (with the Packers using it more than half the time, it's obviously their base set, and could be ours). It could be a good way to counter the developing offensive strategies of the NFL, and is something worth considering.
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This is what I was thinking
when i read about Muhammed Wilkerson, but yeah, Heyward would likely fit the bill. And Hood seems up to the task also, or hampton and somebody on downs that could be run or pass, maybe?
Yes and no
Nickel simply means an extra DB. So you have x-x-5. Since that has to add up to 11 theres a few ways we do it.
Sometimes we run a 1-5-5 which has just one down lineman, can be hell to figure out where the blitz comes from but not always a stout run stopping setup.
Also the 3-3-5 is more balanced at the point of attack but we cut out a MLB, in 09 it was usually Timmons for some dumb reason, last year Farrior sat more which was 10x more logical.
The 2-4-5 is our most common nickel set but there are others.
Yes, 2-4-5 fits with Worilds and Sylvester both staying on field all 3 downs
The Steelers were either lucky or smart to get both Worilds and Sylvester last year. Worilds should be able to help Heyward/ Ziggy get pressure while Sylvester can cover short routes. Tomlin must have hated the dilemma of taking Farrior or Timmons off the field. As our new guys I mentioned develop, the 2-4-5 sounds excellent. EXCEPT for the 5 who may not be NFL caliber DBs!
but....
My draft guides and research says Heyward is not much of a pass rusher. Has some sack stats, but says he is not consistent in his effort, and does not have creative pass rush moves. I am skeptical of the pick
i remember hearing that about ziggy too
although ziggy was always touted as a consistently high effort guy. still, heyward is a carbon copy of the ziggy hood pick in 2009. he’ll get at least two years in before he’s asked to do much at all.
by steel.curtain.number2 on Apr 29, 2011 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
A 3-4 DE isnt really meant to rush the passer. If he can, its icing on the cake. Extra gravy in your mashed taters, Whipped cream on the cookie, extra cheese on the pizza…. etc…
If he has a motor which it seems he does he can definitely help collapse the pocket at the least.
Yup
In a 3-4 defense the DEs are enablers for the LBs, who are the “stars”.
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever
-Napoleon Bonaparte
The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.
-Thomas Szasz
Cornell University Class of 2014
by LV Steelers Fan on Apr 29, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Pass rush moves can be taught
I’m going to trust Tomlin and Co. to develop him up just fine, and I don’t buy the consistency thing. I’ve heard the same point, of course, but I saw this guy play a fair bit and I didn’t feel that way. Just a difference of opinion I guess.
Out of the 70 or so people that did the Draft contest
I think 3 picked Heyward for us
Back on the Sweed train. Choo Choo!
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
thoughts
1. Tomlin tipped his hand by saying he thinks everything revolves around the big boys up front.
2. I wonder if you will see more sets where Hampton comes off the field and some combination of Heyward, Hood, Smith and Kiesel stays.
3. If Heyward and Hood can generate pressure when we rush 3 – that is super good news.
I don't want to create a new FanPost, so I'll just ask here:
Do any of the writers have Twitter accounts? My Twitter basically serves as a newsfeed and I follow most of the stories of my other favorite team, the University of Louisville Cardinals, through what I see on Twitter (the guy who runs the UofL SBNation site tweets out a link with every story). I know I seem incredibly lazy but I rarely get on an actual computer anymore and although I like the SBNation mobile sites, I really don’t get on them that often. Although I’m trying to remember to check this site daily, I was just curious. Thanks.
by crazygameofpoker on Apr 29, 2011 9:24 AM EDT reply actions
I have a twitter @BelowZero8 and so does this website, @btsteelcurtain
Back on the Sweed train. Choo Choo!
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
by John Stephens on Apr 29, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Excellent points. Hadn’t thought of this, but it makes sense.
I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say I expect to see it as a base defense, but we might see it a lot more, especially if our run D remains stout and forces teams to throw.
I definitely found it to be an odd pick, but DL has got to be one of the oldest positions on the team. Not that our DL is washed-up, but as good as they are, there probably aren’t too many productive years left in that group.
Colbert
Prior to the draft Colbert said there were 20 special players in this draft. After he jumped out of his chair to draft Heyward, he had this to say.
We feel this is one of those special players I talked about the other day, It’s hard to find a hole with this guy. This is a special moment. Every pick that comes off of guys we wouldn’t be considering, our odds increased
Seems pretty obvious
Crazy how much faster our pick was than the 15 picks before. Each one took the whole 10 minutes and then some. That whole Ravens thing took 30 minutes more than it should have.
Back on the Sweed train. Choo Choo!
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
by John Stephens on Apr 29, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
It seems like the Steelers really coveted him
Either they had a massive and uncharacteristic lapse in judgment, or we got ourselves a great player.
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever
-Napoleon Bonaparte
The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.
-Thomas Szasz
Cornell University Class of 2014
by LV Steelers Fan on Apr 29, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Tomlin took Cam and his mom aside during his personal proday and talked to him for quite a while.
I think everyone in your front office loved him, and for good reason. He’s a very strong character guy with a great motor and a very high football IQ. Not to mention he can play almost any position on the line. It’s kind of hard to miss on a guy like that.
Some more from Les Carpenter
If you read this article, its pretty clear that he was incredibly well liked by his couches at Ohio State. The more I look the more it seems that the Steelers feel they got a steal.
by SteelerBuddha on Apr 29, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
2-4-5 ....
I can see us taking a OLB or ILB in the 2nd. or 3rd. rd.
Martez Wilson ILB
Dontay Moch OLB
I hope we get Marcus Gilbert -OT, too have chemistry with Maurkice Pouncey since Miami took Mike. Well I guess, after he gets tired of losing in Miami he can come to Pittsburgh after his rookie contract.
I also see us taking Davon House -CB, if he is still available and move Keenan Lewis to Nickel .
Wilson won't be there at 63.
Dontay Moch could be the third round pick… the athleticism does stand out.
I’m curious about moving Keenan Lewis to free safety. I think he might be better there.
Not necessarily sure that it only has to do with running a 2-4-5
I think part of the decision has to do with the fact that 3-4 ends are just more valuable. Half the league is running the 3-4 which I don’t think was the case when Smith and Keisel were drafted, although I haven’t done any research. Now we have a bunch of other teams that also need to fill that spot on their roster, and obviously when there is more demand for something it’s value goes up
Its definitely leaning 3-4 more
I think in the early part of the decade it was like 8 teams with a 3-4 and now its like 12-14 something like that. So yeah those guys, which are already harder to come by because players like getting stats, are becoming more important.
Things rarely are done for only one reason
And yes, your point definitely holds true. The article was more to create a discussion of using the 2-4-5 system more and how the Heyward selection would make sense if it becomes necessary to do so.
I wonder ......
how Heyward will do at corner? Maybe nobody will try to pass against us this year.
I like it
Im sure he could do pretty well at jamming guys at the line :)
by Bringin' the Wood(ley) on Apr 29, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
This does make sense, a change in defensive schematics. The Steelers defense is effective, IMO, due to it’s unpredictability, pretty much the staple of the zone blitz.
Of course, for a defense to remain truly unpredictable, it needs to stay one step ahead of the trend. The rest of the NFL is converting to a 3-4 defense? Screw ’em, go 2-4-5!
Thank you Ned Colletti.
One thing though
Do we really think he’ll start day one? And if he does, will be ziggy 2.0?
This is Pittsburgh Steeler Troy Polamalu getting knocked around by the Pacific Ocean in Hawaii yesterday...
Minutes later, Troy caught the ocean going over the middle and smacked it right in the mouth. The ocean fumbled, Troy recovered and ran it into the endzone. The ocean never messed with Troy again.
There's no way he starts day one
unless we suffer some devastating injuries, which I obviously hope doesn’t happen. Still, it could be a look for next year or the year after.
Nice write up
(though we ran it with inferior defensive backs, and suffered)
Which is why I think we should have traded up for a superior corner. A 2-4-5 is great if you have great DBs. If you don’t it doesn’t matter how good your down 2 or 4 LBs are.
Constantly making Daisy cry
The Daily Faberian
# of 3-4 teams
Around the time they drafted Kiesel there were fewer than 5 teams that ran a 3-4. It’s part of the reason that the Steelers were able to consistently put such a strong defense on the field while drafting so late. 3-4 ends were seen as DT / DE tweeners that didn’t really fit either position. Not strong enough to play the middle and not quick enough to generate a pass rush. By the same token outside linebackers for a 3-4 were undersized defensive ends who weren’t quick enough to play eiither the Will or Mike positions in the 4-3. Since so few teams wanted these players that “didn’t fit” you could get higher quality players with later round draft picks.
When did 3rd or 4th down and less than 3 yards become a passing down?
by Bring Back Dan Kreider on Apr 29, 2011 12:59 PM EDT reply actions
Lots of comments along 2 main points
1. With five defensive backs on the field, we need good d-backs, which we are lacking.
Obviously true. I’m not trying to contend that the scheme switch will instantly solve our passing woes – one of the reasons it worked so well for the Packers is because their dbacks are superb. I can fully understand the point about wanting a defensive back. That isn’t really what the thread is about, but for the sake of argument, it’s highly unlikely a defensive back was the best player available there in any way, especially when you consider that Derek Sherrod was still on the board and we even passed over him in favor of Mr. Heyward. Do we need to address the problem? Yes – or the front office better be ready to take some crap if Lewis and Butler don’t step up next year.
2. The Heyward pick is more about the need to grab 3-4 talent earlier because of the spread of the scheme than a switch to a 2-4-5
Another logical argument, and drafting 3-4 talent is more difficult nowadays. I didn’t mean to imply that Heyward was drafted only because the Steelers are switching schemes. The nickel was being run far more without Heyward anyway. Part of the reason is because of the increased of the spread. Another part was a need to get Casey Hampton off the field. Maybe a year or two down the line, when Heyward develops into a starter to replace the aging Diesel, we could see even more of this scheme, and having Heyward there next to Ziggy, it could be very productive for us. (Provided we improve that defensive back core. Otherwise, it doesn’t matter what scheme we run, we’ll get burned by anyone with a decent QB.
Provided we improve that defensive back core. Otherwise, it doesn’t matter what scheme we run, we’ll get burned by anyone with a decent QB.
Absolutely the truth. I think another thing to address is the rise in the draft of superior defensive backs and the fall of superb running backs. It’s much easier to get a serviceable running back later in the draft than it is to find a lock down corner. Look at some of the best RBs from last year. Blount and Foster weren’t even drafted. And teams that would usually address RB depth are using late round picks or free agency and using their higher picks to draft a DB.
I think the front office needs to realize that if they want to get a top tier DB talent they’re going to need to move up in the draft. They just don’t seem to fall too late in the draft or into the later rounds like they used to.
Constantly making Daisy cry
The Daily Faberian
maybe he wont start
but i can see heyward getting some good playing time so we can send wave after wave of fresh beasts at opposing o-lines. this pick makes too much sense and the more i think about it the more i love it. its also a very cool story i didnt know his whole family is from pittsburgh. i think ironhead sr used to do head and shoulder commmercials in the 90’s that would be awesome if cameron and troy did a commmercial together.
by MAN_OF_STEEL_86 on Apr 29, 2011 2:18 PM EDT reply actions
It was a soap commercial
Zest body wash I believe. Just FYI.
"...and that you can print!.... Jeff Bebe "Almost Famous"
by OhioYinzer on Apr 29, 2011 3:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But Iroooonhead...
BTW Ironhead was a BIG boy wasn’t he?
by SteelerBuddha on Apr 29, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
how bout
2-5-4?
"We didn't worry about the calls," Harrison said. "When you're getting a lot of penalties against you, it brings you together."
by kick him in the head on Apr 29, 2011 3:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
We've did that a lot in 2008
And it served us very well. Heyward helps in this set too.

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