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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

How the Pittsburgh Steelers Draft on Defense: The Linebackers.

Bumped. Good stuff here. I hope this series continues. Thanks to all of you for keeping the conversation going all week while I've been largely MIA. Tough week in other aspects of life for me, but despite there not being a lick of news really, you all have kept things fresh. Cheers to y'all. No surprise though really. Anyway, here's a nice compliment to the solid thoughts and conversation-starter published about the Steelers' current situation at linebacker. Nice job here by PhantaSkippy. I'll be back a bit later on Friday late morning/early afternoon.

Happy Friday y'all. Be blessed as always.

-Michael B. -

The first installment of this series discussed some trends in  Drafting Defensive Backs.  The Steelers approach to Linebackers is a little tougher to follow.  The Linebackers we target don't look as similar as the defensive backs, where we consistently seek athletic undeveloped Corners with good size, but there are some trends we can follow to see why we target the players we target.

Let's take a look...

Star-divide

Since 2000 we have drafted 14 Line Backers, averaging greater than one each season.  The breakdown by round selected:

1 - 1

2 - 4

3 - 1

4 - 2

5 - 4

6 - 2

7 - 0

Of the 14 selections 6 were inside linebackers 8 were outside linebackers.  At both positions we frequently drafted players in the lower rounds, but only draft a high round LB when there was a need on the roster.  (Bell when we lost Kirkland, Alonzo Jackson right before Gildon was done).  Perhaps a bigger difference in drafting strategy is the difference between 2000-2006 and 2007-2011, between Cowher and Tomlin.

Tomlin accounts for the first round pick (Timmons), two of the 2nd round picks (Woodley and Worilds), One 3rd (B. Davis) Two 4th round picks (T. Gibson, C. Carter), one 5th (S. Stevenson) and one 6th (M. Humpal).

From 2000-2006 the Steelers drafted 6 LB's, two in the second round, two in the 5th, one in the 6th.  Since Tomlin took over we have drafted eight, and used higher picks than we did under Cowher.  A big part of that can be explained by the 1999 drafting of Joey Porter, the signing of Farrior as a Free Agent, and the development of James Harrison.  Add in the development of later round choices Haggans and Foote and the Steelers didn't need to draft replacement LB's.  In the 2007 draft Tomlin was looking at a LB group that was light on youth and athleticism.  Farrior was 31, Porter was leaving, Harrison and Haggans at 29 weren't any younger, and Larry Foote, the youngest of the contributors wasn't exactly athletic.

The Tomlin Draft era started with the quintessential Tomlin Linebacker:  Lawrence Timmons.  Timmons was young, fast, hard hitting and raw.  His second pick, Lamarr Woodley would be the counter to Timmons, and Tomlin would pick more like him, experienced, and likely ready to contribute immediately.  We all know how that draft worked out.  Timmons took time to develop, but is quite possibly in the running with Harrison for our best LB.  Woodley made his presence known immediately, but while he is a great OLB, he is not as athletic, and not as fast as Timmons or Harrison and it shows in his pass rush.  Unlike Cowher, who drafted new starters high in the draft and projects/reserves later, Tomlin tends to draft raw athletes early and more polished ready to fill a roll right away LB's later.  There isn't a perfect split, but I think you can see the ideology.

Timmons, Worilds, Davis and even this years fourth round pick C. Carter were viewed as quick LB's with high potential but they would need time to adjust to system changes.

Woodley and Gibson played similar roles to our LB's in college and both were expected to be able to help (Gibson as a reserve) early on.  Stevenson was drafted as a ST guy, which if you remember that draft, was kind of a theme.

Like I said it isn't a perfect split, as Worilds was viewed as both a future OLB and a body for ST play, and Sylvester is an athletic ILB project.  However at the time of the draft their biggest value was OLB pass rush project, and ST ace respectively.

Humpal, in my opinion was largely a body for camp, fill out the roster pick.

While looking through scouting reports on our Linbackers from their drafts, I noticed there is some correlation between size and speed and success on our team.  I added in Joey Porter since he was drafted in 1999, just missing the Colbert era, and since this is more about success in our system than draft strategy.

Players, with their weight/40 time.

 

Player Weight 40 time
Joey Porter 241 4.68
Clark Haggans 253 4.97
Roger Knight 245 4.6
Kendrell Bell 234 4.64
Larry Foote 231 4.83
Alonzo Jackson 266 4.86
Rian Wallace 243 4.65
Lawrence Timmons 234 4.66
LaMarr Woodley 266 4.74
Mike Humpal 244 4.82
Bruce Davis 252 4.78
Jason Worilds 254 4.65
Thaddeus Gibson 243 4.78
Stevenson Sylvester 231 4.71
Chris Carter 248 4.58

 

Only two Linebackers weighing over 250 at the draft have had success in our system.  Clark Haggans and LaMarr Woodley.  Of the OLB's they are also the only ones to run a 40 time in 4.7 or higher.  Clark Haggans was in no way an ideal OLB in our system, his years as a starter make up four of our 6 worst sack totals of the time period.  Porter's sacks dropped when Haggans took over opposite him, and Harrison's sacks went up when Woodley replaced him.  Woodley is a clear exception to the under 250, under 4.7 rule.  Inside Linebackers don't need as much speed, but still only Foote has done well for us, and he, like Haggans isn't our ideal fit.  Rian Wallace and Roger Knight both fit the rule, but didn't have success on our team.  As 5th and 6th round picks the odds weren't great in their favor, Wallace would stick around on ST and even return an INT for a TD, he was cut in 2007 with Woodley and Timmons forcing lower rank players down the list.  Knight would not even make it out of camp as a rookie.

Jason Worilds is over 250, but his 40 times are very good, so he will be an interesting one to watch.

I was surprised to find that bigger LB's tend to have less success in our system, while smaller faster ones tend to do better, you would think it would be the reverse, especially with our OLB's taking on tackles most plays.  The ILB's being even smaller than the OLB's was also a bit of a surprise, I guess the days of Kirkland and Holmes really are gone.  

While neither of my observations on the draft are without exceptions, the trends appear to be there.  With Tomlin so far we see trends of trying to fill immediate needs with ready to play prospects, usually in the mid rounds, while taking raw athletes to mold into future contributors.  I like this strategy, as it gives your higher picks more time to develop, with a higher upside when they do work out.  The under 250/4.7 correlation was a surprise to me, and is something I will look forward to analyzing in future drafts.

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Rec'd

Very interesting to read this, on the heels of commenting on the other story about Timmons/Woodley.

As for the correlation, could it have something to do with the Lebeau fine-tuning of later years, when the make-up of our DL stabilized? In other words, when Coach Dad knew that when Diesel, Aaron and Snack are in, no need to have too much weight back there, and more athletes to fly to the ball or drop into coverage.

"Blackadder: So in the name of security everyone who enters has to have his bottom fondled by this drooling pervert.

Darling: Just doing my job, Blackadder.

Blackadder: Well how lucky you are that your job is also your hobby. "

by Flying Polamalus on May 12, 2011 3:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I didn't know LT ran a 4.6 40

thought it would have been faster than that

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"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
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by WVPiratesfan on May 12, 2011 3:56 PM EDT reply actions  

timmons' speed

I remember thinking he was going to be too slow based on his forty time. Boy, did I learn a lesson about how much to rely on 40 yd dash times.

by tkired on May 12, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

he has game speed

something Al Davis knows nothing about

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on May 12, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are those combine numbers?

Because if they are then they’re probably off by a little. Those times are notoriously wrong.

Timmons is definitely faster than 4.6.

by StoneColdSteel on May 12, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, combine numbers stink, but they were also the only ones I could get for most of the guys. Also most guys have different on field speed than what their 40 shows. Some guys are slower with pads, others move faster.

by Phantaskippy on May 12, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

LT

Timmons ran a 4.59 at the combine 4 years ago. He seems to be a little more quick than fast.

by rick160 on May 13, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great analysis

Didn’t realize that size/speed situation, good job finding that.

I AM PHIL DAVISON AND I WILL NOT APOLOGIZE FOR MY TONE TONIGHT

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on May 12, 2011 5:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Very good read and a rec from me

Thanks

A long way from Pittsburgh PA, in fact, 8653.2 miles to be precise. My blood still bleeds black and gold like the rest of Steeler Nation, proud fan since 2002.

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by Michael Hewitt on May 12, 2011 9:43 PM EDT reply actions  

and it shows in his pass rush

Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t Woodley been one of the top pass-rushing OLB in all of football the last couple of years?

He may be slower than Timmons, but he has no problem getting to the QB. Not sure I understand that logic.

by mspirate on May 13, 2011 11:29 AM EDT reply actions  

I didn’t mean that it shows in his production, but his style of pass rush, and what kind of sacks he gets.

Woodley gets very different sacks than Joey Porter got, Joey would fire into a gap and hit the QB while being largely untouched. Woodley’s sacks are generally him fighting through a blocker and into the QB. Timmons and Farrior are more likely to get sacks by firing free into the pocket, while Woodley and Harrison fight through blockers. Traditionally the faster LB’s that can make one move and leave a blocker in the dust do better in our system. It’s a credit to Woodley that he can excel in our system while not fitting that traditional role.

Remember that the zone blitz is largely based on deception that allows somebody free access to your QB, yet that’s not Woodley’s style. Credit both Woodley and LeBeau for making it work, but slower bigger OLBs are the exception in our system.

by Phantaskippy on May 13, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get what you're saying...

but a sack is a sack. Who cares how you get it?

by mspirate on May 13, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because he's making a point

Do you not understand that LBs that are as big as Woodley don’t normally have his kind of production in our system?

by StoneColdSteel on May 13, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but Woodley isn't a "normal" LB for our system...

so it’s a moot point. He has a unique combination of size, strength and speed, and the Steelers saw all this in him when they drafted him.

Phantaskippy made a great point that Woodley is an exception in our system. He gets to the QB. Period. I don’t care how he does it. At the end of the day, a sack is a sack is a sack.

by mspirate on May 13, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am in no way saying anything about Woodley, other than he is the exception.

The point is that we normally go after different linebackers. The only reason I mention Woodley being an exception is because other than him every LB we draft of his size/speed flops. Every one. The point is that when we draft LB’s of LaMarr Woodley’s size they are either LaMarr Woodley or a bust. That’s all.

by Phantaskippy on May 13, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder

how this effects Jason Worilds who is up to 262 lbs right now (reduced speed?). Maybe they are looking for 2 separate OLB on the field, an athletic OLB that can easily go into coverage and all fly over the field (James Harrison), and a larger OLB that can give constant pressure and anchor that side almost like an athletic DE that can also drop in coverage causing confusion.

I also notice that they have been drafting alot of LBs that can play both ILB and OLB lately. Harrison was drafted as a ILB and has played some ILB lately in certain packages, we all know Timmons was drafted as a OLB and has occasionally played OLB in Pittsburgh. Stevenson Sylvester has had limited time at both ILB and OLB. Got to love position flexibility.

James Harrison~ "We are not trying to hit nobody hard. We don't want to get fined" *blank stare* /end sarcasm.

by H-burgSTEELfanatic on May 13, 2011 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Most of our guys put on weight after being drafted. Straight line speed for a LB is rarely a key ingredient, overall athletic ability and short burst quickness are much more important. That is why I was so surprised to find that correlation, I honestly can’t tell you it means anything, just that it does exist and is worth watching in the future.

As for Worilds, he had a frame to put on more muscle and being a little slower may not hurt him much, as his speed was really good to start.

One thing I’m going to do (if I have the time) is check the Patriots and Ravens 3-4 OLB drafts and see if a similar trend exists. Sadly combine stats are hard to find for 10 years ago, which is why I had to stick to the 40 yd dash.

by Phantaskippy on May 13, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't worry about Worilds' speed too much

His 10-yard split is what Tomlin was enamored with at the combine last year. That number is always important for 3-4 OLBs.

by StoneColdSteel on May 13, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Awesome post. Rec'd

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by seton hall and steelers on May 13, 2011 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Very interesting stuff. And it is contrary to what I remember hearing from all kind of “experts” especially around draft time. I look forward to what you find on other 3-4 teams’ OLBs

by tkired on May 13, 2011 10:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Steelers got two of my favorite OLB prospects of the last two drafts (Worilds and Carter).

Really wanted my Jets to grab each of them. I’m really interested to see how they pan out over time. Neither are likely to get many snaps other than on specials the next few years, but that could be a blessing, as it allows time for them to hone their skills and settle into the system.

Gibson is another guy I’ll be looking out for.

by Crackback on May 15, 2011 2:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Gibson

Lots of people here were sorry to see him go but we had other issues and he was a victim of the numbers game.

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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on May 15, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sly ran a 4.71?

He sure looks faster than that on the field. I’m not sure if I really care about 40 times for any position except DB or WR. It seems like most of the other positions are better judged by their 10 yard burst.

by lkwdsteel on Aug 16, 2011 5:05 PM EDT reply actions  

LBs are faster due to the evolution of the game.

They need to cover these receiver-only type TEs, as well as deal with slots coming across the middle. Running is totally getting a back seat to the forward pass, so our LBs need that speed to handle coverage.

I’d like to think our system produced the most balanced LBs and TEs in the league; and for similar reason. We drafted a sure-handed throw-me-the-ball TE (Bruener) and he went on to become a really solid blocker, and rarely saw the ball. Miller is pretty balanced out of the box, so he fits our scheme well.

If you look at how Deebo started with us, he lurked on ST for a while until he got his shot – and his ability to drop into coverage was one of the reasons they kept him on the roster.

by Spacemonkey on Aug 23, 2011 8:36 AM EDT reply actions  


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