Is It Time To Consider Ben Roethlisberger One Of The Best?

having only read the title of this post..

id say that time has come and gone.

by steel.curtain.number2 on May 30, 2011 11:03 PM EDT reply actions

ok.. just read the rest of it

one of the best ever? not yet. he’s definitely one of the best right now, and having just entered his prime in the last two years he has plenty of time to put up huge numbers. brady was 30 when he set the single season TD record. ben just turned 29. look for these next few years to be really really special.

by steel.curtain.number2 on May 30, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Yea

he’ll need to have an awesome numbers the next 5 years to be considered up there and throw in another SB win and there won’t be any question

But there needs to be a jump, if ben can make that ‘P.Manning’ jump and just starts slicing open defenses like a surgeon then he’ll be there, the offensive line staying healthy together and progressing will go a long way to help.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on May 30, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions

i blame the offensive line for him not making the jump already

getting good protection would do so much for us that we dont even think about. he’s already the best there is at extending the play, so giving him an extra second or two before he is forced out of the pocket would be huge. plus it means we can stop keeping Heath in to block all the time, which adds another incredibly talented and reliable target over the middle. not to mention it keeps ben healthy, the only time he started all 16 regular season games was in 2008, not coincidentally our last superbowl title.

by steel.curtain.number2 on May 30, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions

He is up there for sure

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on May 30, 2011 11:22 PM EDT reply actions

Coming from a Ravens fan I don’t know that he is quite up there yet for best ever, but is definitely is one of the best right now and if he continues playing at this level he very well could be in the mentioning. Hate the guy, but he just knows how to win playoff games. Also Flacco has 7 post season starts, so he should be included in that list as well :).

"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on May 30, 2011 11:59 PM EDT reply actions

I agree with everything here

Except you being a Ravens fan. You should fix that. :P

by tkired on May 31, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm a Cleveland Browns fans that lived in Pittsburgh for 15 years.

@AV23 and tkired,

Thanks for liking my piece and as a Browns fan that lived in Piitsburgh(Brookline,Shadyside, Mt Washington and Greenfield) even I cannot help but agree with my own piece, even though i HATE the guy for being elusive and always clutch, he has the numbers so far and the trings to justify his case as ONE of the best.

If he would have beaten GB, he would easily be mentioned in the same breath as Brady and Montana. Period.

Thanks again and let’s hope that there is a 2011 season.

Robert Cobb

email me at robcobb@gmail.com and follow me on Twitter at @Robert_Cobb

by Robert Cobb on May 31, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah that game woulda helped

Winning the SB with under 2 minutes left and one timeout would have basically had somebody ordering his HOF bust right now.

by Mechem on Jun 3, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Nope

"No disrespect to Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara, but I just think I have better cover skills. They get tested a lot, and that’s for a reason. The other team sees something in their game that they want to attack, and me playing in the same league as Prince, we played the same teams and they didn’t attack me the same. So why does that happen?" - CB Jimmy Smith

by Mr MaLoR on May 31, 2011 3:46 AM EDT reply actions

care to tell us why

My Seton Hall blog: http://thesetonhallblog.blogspot.com/
My Steelers blog: thenewsteelcurtain.blogspot.com
My Draft Blog: draftdatabase.wordpress.com

by seton hall and steelers on May 31, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions

I will say he is one of the best in the league, but not a top 10 QB of all time in my opinion. I need to see Ben absolutely run through the league and put up gaudy numbers like the ones who we consider the best ever. Ben’s success is a major product of the elite team he has around him, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. You have 53 players on your roster for a reason.

Much of the QB’s that we consider the best of all time were typically the most dominating player on their teams and sole reasons why they won Superbowls and won as many games as they did. While I think Ben is good, very very good, I haven’t ever really seen him takeover a game as much as your defense does, but that is just a credit to how damn good your defense is.

Ben has a chance to go into the HOF if he gets another ring, which he probably will because he is just hitting his prime. But I think until we see him putting up 4,600 yards and 36 TD’s year after year, people aren’t going to consider him one of the best ever.

"No disrespect to Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara, but I just think I have better cover skills. They get tested a lot, and that’s for a reason. The other team sees something in their game that they want to attack, and me playing in the same league as Prince, we played the same teams and they didn’t attack me the same. So why does that happen?" - CB Jimmy Smith

by Mr MaLoR on May 31, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with this

He has a lot of work to do before he can be in that category. A lot of fans want their star to be “the best all-time” but look at Randy Moss, for a few years people might have thought he could take over Jerry Rice’s records. But then his career tanked, and Elway is only as high up as he is because he ended up winning his last two years. Let’s wait until his career is over and judge him on his whole record. He still has a lot of work to get there, but he could.

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on May 31, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

He definitely could, but the general football public goes by stats more than anything else, which is why we will never hear Ben talked about in the same breath as Unitas, Montana, Favre, Marino and so on. Hell, he isn’t even mentioned in the same sentence as Manning, Brady, Brees and now Rodgers by most people because they are the pretty boys who put up sick numbers.

You guys shouldn’t even be worried about this “best ever” argument because it most likely will never go the way you all think it should given Ben’s recent image he made through poor decisions off the field. He has the rings, and at least no one can take those away.

"No disrespect to Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara, but I just think I have better cover skills. They get tested a lot, and that’s for a reason. The other team sees something in their game that they want to attack, and me playing in the same league as Prince, we played the same teams and they didn’t attack me the same. So why does that happen?" - CB Jimmy Smith

by Mr MaLoR on May 31, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree

As a Steeler fan I think it would be a better legacy if he won 5 SB’s than if he is considered “best-ever”for stats alone. Marino may be the most prolific QB ever, and he never won.

Even though you are a Raven fan (and thus have few titles in your young franchise’s history), your franchise is similar to ours insomuch as you mainly care about winning titles. Stats aren’t important, especially not on offense. That is what makes our teams so great every year.

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on May 31, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I mean, having great stats is definitely an indication of winning, but I have seen first hand that a QB can win games without having to put up huge numbers, much like Joe has done the last 3 seasons in the playoffs. Sometimes it is what you don’t do that can win football games for you.

"No disrespect to Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara, but I just think I have better cover skills. They get tested a lot, and that’s for a reason. The other team sees something in their game that they want to attack, and me playing in the same league as Prince, we played the same teams and they didn’t attack me the same. So why does that happen?" - CB Jimmy Smith

by Mr MaLoR on May 31, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Exactly

Ben won his first SB letting the team play big for him. Should be fun to watch Joe and Ben continue to battle while getting very little respect. Funny part is, they will probably end up with more SB’s than anyone except Brady that they played with (though they could pass Brady).

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on Jun 1, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

It’ll be like Ben 5 Flacco 0, but they’ll still have more SBs combined than most QBs

by Mechem on Jun 3, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Lolercoaster

This is Pittsburgh Steeler Troy Polamalu getting knocked around by the Pacific Ocean in Hawaii yesterday...
Minutes later, Troy caught the ocean going over the middle and smacked it right in the mouth. The ocean fumbled, Troy recovered and ran it into the endzone. The ocean never messed with Troy again.

by paulamalu on Aug 9, 2011 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions

but if we'd have just drafted Marino... sigh

Then we’d be winning rings for the toes by now. Bradshaw → Marino → Roethlisberger.

That would have been nice.

Marino never won, but I don’t think anybody would say that was because of his play and not a porous defense and no running game. If he had the Steelers teams of the 80’s and 90’s playing with him than his not having titles wouldn’t be part of the discussion.

by lkwdsteel on Jul 15, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

agreed..but

BB would even have been great in the 70s, when QBs didn’t get protected(BB don’t get protected anyway) and receivers got murdered down field..think Brady and Manning would have been good without all the protection?? You can’t touch those guys without a flag…especially Brady, who I think would have gotten murdered in the good old days. BB is the ultimate football player, tough, non-complainer…Flacco to is a non-complainer when he is hit..

A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States

by nycsteelerfan on May 31, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess you are somewhat right, too hard to say he would be good 40 years ago in a totally different era. I don’t think Ben would be very good on about 10 teams in this league right now, but that is not a knock on him. QB needs to be on a good team to win as well.

Flacco to is a non-complainer when he is hit..

He is, but this is always funny to watch. Mamma Flacco must not be happy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiVL_ZdW51o

"No disrespect to Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara, but I just think I have better cover skills. They get tested a lot, and that’s for a reason. The other team sees something in their game that they want to attack, and me playing in the same league as Prince, we played the same teams and they didn’t attack me the same. So why does that happen?" - CB Jimmy Smith

by Mr MaLoR on May 31, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions

remember..

BB came to the steelers when they were a 6-10 team..

A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States

by nycsteelerfan on Jun 1, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions

This.

A puzzle can only come together when all the right pieces are in place.

A long way from Pittsburgh PA, in fact, 8653.2 miles to be precise. My blood still bleeds black and gold like the rest of Steeler Nation, proud fan since 2002.

BTSC's token Kiwi fan. That means I'm a New Zealander. Yes, that small country next to Australia....no we are not part of Australia

by Michael Hewitt on Jun 1, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions

We are almost finished the puzzle. Picked up the last few pieces a few weeks ago.

"No disrespect to Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara, but I just think I have better cover skills. They get tested a lot, and that’s for a reason. The other team sees something in their game that they want to attack, and me playing in the same league as Prince, we played the same teams and they didn’t attack me the same. So why does that happen?" - CB Jimmy Smith

by Mr MaLoR on Jun 2, 2011 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions

Im not disagreeing. If Torrey Smith can be the game breaking receiver you drafted him to be, and if Jimmy Smith can be the lockdown corner, it wouldnt surprise me

There are two things left to be seen by me though, they are:

1. Joe Flacco taking a game by the horns and dragging you guys back into it. He needs to improve his 4th quarter game and be more badass.

2. Another pass rusher, the heat comes from Suggs, other than him, not a whole lot going on there

A long way from Pittsburgh PA, in fact, 8653.2 miles to be precise. My blood still bleeds black and gold like the rest of Steeler Nation, proud fan since 2002.

BTSC's token Kiwi fan. That means I'm a New Zealander. Yes, that small country next to Australia....no we are not part of Australia

by Michael Hewitt on Jun 2, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions

And Flacco came to the Ravens when they were a 5-11 team ; )

"No disrespect to Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara, but I just think I have better cover skills. They get tested a lot, and that’s for a reason. The other team sees something in their game that they want to attack, and me playing in the same league as Prince, we played the same teams and they didn’t attack me the same. So why does that happen?" - CB Jimmy Smith

by Mr MaLoR on Jun 2, 2011 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions

I NEVER said wasn't a good QB!

MaLor, as you know, I have always stuck up for Flacco! yes, I am aware that the ravens had a bad year before they drafted him. I hate the arguments that BB came to a great team, as flacco gets the same non-sense that he went to a great team.

A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States

by nycsteelerfan on Jun 3, 2011 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions

I never said HE wasn't a good QB..

A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States

by nycsteelerfan on Jun 3, 2011 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions

but they were a 13-3 team the year before that 5-11 season

by GDEUCE on Jun 4, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions

And the Steelers were 10-5-1 the year before their 6-10.

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.
– Joseph Joubert

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jun 6, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions

BB is the shiznitz.

no way would trade him for any other QB n the league right now. He’s the toughest and most clutch. Two key ingredients for a QB in the AFC Norris.

by SteelersFnRule on May 31, 2011 8:50 AM EDT reply actions

I'm a huge Ben fan

but I agree with the others that said he needs another stellar year or two and another SB win to be considered one of the best ever

"I don't want to see anyone injured, but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone" - James Harrison

by LifelongSteelerFanInVa on May 31, 2011 9:06 AM EDT reply actions

Easily the best QB ever

Back on the Sweed train. Choo Choo!
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller

by John Stephens on May 31, 2011 9:42 AM EDT reply actions

I don't think Malor heard you.

Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...

by StoneColdSteel on May 31, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions

My rankings

Big Ben
Bradshaw
Dilfer
Montana

Back on the Sweed train. Choo Choo!
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller

by John Stephens on Jun 1, 2011 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions

wrong

Dilfer should be number 1

"I don't want to see anyone injured, but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone" - James Harrison

by LifelongSteelerFanInVa on Jun 1, 2011 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions

You da man

"No disrespect to Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara, but I just think I have better cover skills. They get tested a lot, and that’s for a reason. The other team sees something in their game that they want to attack, and me playing in the same league as Prince, we played the same teams and they didn’t attack me the same. So why does that happen?" - CB Jimmy Smith

by Mr MaLoR on Jun 1, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions

And where is Kyle Boller?

I think Malor would agree with me in saying that Boller should be very high on that list.

Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...

by StoneColdSteel on Jun 1, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Gotta have the ring to dance on my list.

Back on the Sweed train. Choo Choo!
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller

by John Stephens on Jun 1, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Boller is married, that's a ring, right?

(kidding)

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.
– Joseph Joubert

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jun 1, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

He dated Tara Reid at one point, does that count?

"No disrespect to Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara, but I just think I have better cover skills. They get tested a lot, and that’s for a reason. The other team sees something in their game that they want to attack, and me playing in the same league as Prince, we played the same teams and they didn’t attack me the same. So why does that happen?" - CB Jimmy Smith

by Mr MaLoR on Jun 2, 2011 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions

She used to be hot, but never intelligent.

Back on the Sweed train. Choo Choo!
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller

by John Stephens on Jun 2, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Boller and Reid used to come into my old work all the time for dinner. I gave her butter and bread, ohhhhh yea.

"No disrespect to Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara, but I just think I have better cover skills. They get tested a lot, and that’s for a reason. The other team sees something in their game that they want to attack, and me playing in the same league as Prince, we played the same teams and they didn’t attack me the same. So why does that happen?" - CB Jimmy Smith

by Mr MaLoR on Jun 2, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Did you butter her bread?

Back on the Sweed train. Choo Choo!
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller

by John Stephens on Jun 2, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.
– Joseph Joubert

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jun 2, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions

The Ben/Bradshaw talk continues...

by Mini Hulk on Jun 4, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions

He is top 5 right now

And has been for at least 3-4 seasons.

That said, he might be a top 25 QB of all time, but saying he isn’t one of the top-10 best ever isn’t a slight against him. I think these players are clearly above him:

Bart Star
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Joe Montana
Johnny U.
Dan Marino
John Elway
Steve Young
Tom Brady
Terry Bradshaw
Fran Tarkenton
Warren Moon
Otto Graham
Len Dawson
Troy Aikman
Ken Stabler

All of those players are ahead of him. Give him 5 years and another title or two and he moves into top-10 all time. If he plays 8-10 more years, wins two more titles and an MVP (at least a SB MVP) he should be top-5

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on May 31, 2011 9:45 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Agreed whole-heartly, Michael

Well said, Mike. and that was the point I was trying to get across. Good job!

Robert Cobb

email me at robcobb@gmail.com and follow me on Twitter at @Robert_Cobb

by Robert Cobb on May 31, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions

I think he will have to win one more title than Brady to move ahead of him. I don’t think there is much of anything (other than winning 6-7 championships) to move passed Marino, Manning, Favre or Montana.

I think he could pass Young, Bradshaw, Unitas and Bart Starr. The others (Tarkenton-Stabler) he will probably pass if he stays on this current course trajectory.

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on May 31, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions

moe Otto up and Favre down

Yeah he was a brown, but it was so damned long ago we shouldn’t have a bias against him. The guy defined what it means to be a winner. Anybody who can win Championships that consistently has to be ranked at or near the top. If he were a Steeler we’d be calling him the best ever without question.

Favre makes the list mainly because he was a freak who never missed a game, but all of those bone headed picks that cost his team dearly have to count as much as the TD’s and yards.

by lkwdsteel on Jul 15, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

moe = move

by lkwdsteel on Jul 15, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Last year's Super Bowl

Just imagine if Ben had actually pulled off that last minute TD drive. We would definitely be talking about him as one of the greatest ever.

Stay thirsty my friends.

by SteelerMessican on May 31, 2011 12:29 PM EDT reply actions

yep and definitely the greatest QB of this era

What is ridicoulous is that on Yahoo they said Big Ben does not perform well on the NFL’s biggest stage

My Seton Hall blog: http://thesetonhallblog.blogspot.com/
My Steelers blog: thenewsteelcurtain.blogspot.com
My Draft Blog: draftdatabase.wordpress.com

by seton hall and steelers on May 31, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions

If they meant the Superbowl, they're not entirely wrong.

He’s had two games that could be considered clunkers in the big one.

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.
– Joseph Joubert

by NYSteelersFan4 on May 31, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah but

You can sorta give him some slack for playing in one his second season and not knowing much of what he was doing….

The second game was pretty much awesome.

The third wasn’t pretty but all things considered 2 TDs through the middle-end of the game to keep the team in it was pretty clutch. And his two picks weren’t really much his fault. The first was hit on the arm and the second was half him and half wally for not fighting for that ball.

He ain’t a Neil O’Donnell

by Mechem on Jun 3, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Totally agreed.

I give him the benefit of the doubt, but an “outsider” looking solely at the game from a statistical standpoint, most likely wouldn’t. The bottom line is regardless of the details we factor in, in two of those games he played below the level many have come to expect of him. Fair or not, it is what it is.

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.
– Joseph Joubert

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jun 3, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions

could’ve been a third TD , but Wallace stopped running

by GDEUCE on Jun 4, 2011 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Ben overthrew him

Sad but true.

NYSF it’s true most people just look at stats and therefore are retarded. But it’s no tall tale to say Ben had a less than average performance in the last SB.

But even in the first one he made a lot of plays. People forget the running TD and the 3rd and 28 to setup the TD. How many dudes convert 3rd and 28?

by Mechem on Jun 8, 2011 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions

One third down conversion doesn't erase the rest of the game, which was not good.

If those games were on par with what many expect of Ben based on what he does most of the time, this discussion wouldn’t even be taking place, it would be laughed off. His first Superbowl, he completed 42% of his passes and threw two INT’s. His third was, in my opinion, a very average game for a pro QB. If those two are indicitave of him as a player, which they are not, this whole thread would be a joke. We both know that. I watched those games, multiple times each, and Ben was definitely not playing at a high level in either, stats aside.

It’s fair to say he had two below average Superbowls when you look at what he does in other games. Whether it is fair to say he struggles in big games is another story. But, as I said originally, if they’re talking about just Superbowls when they say “biggest stage” they’re not entirely wrong. I don’t agree with the entire Yahoo article myself, but it’s not unfair to find some semblence of truth in it, even if it is reaching at strings on the writer’s part.

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.
– Joseph Joubert

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jun 8, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Bens stats are better than I thought

I hate the argument that Bens success is due to the strong team around him. If thats the case why didnt the Steelers win any Super Bowls without him? This is a QB league and the fact that Roethlisberger has been to 3 Super Bowls says a lot about his ability.

by steelerintexas on May 31, 2011 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

To be fair

Troy only really started seeing the field during Ben’s rookie year.

Also, aside from Hines, who did Tommy Gun/Kordell have to throw to? Sure, those teams had The Bus, but they had Duce “Pocket Pool” Staley too. /sarcasm font-Yay!-sarcasm font\

Ben had Hines, Plex, The Bus, FWP, Troy, Chris Hope, Joey Porter, ETC..

Hmmm…Looking at it now(AKA: doing actual research, as opposed to going strictly on memory), Plex was drafted in 2000. So, Kordell and Tommy Gun had Hines and Plex to throw to…However, neither of those guys had the 1-2 punch of Bus and Willie.

"SteelFever gets #93. Just like Ron Artest. Great game just keep an eye on him that he doesn't go into the stands after a fan."
- 5020 on my making the BTSC active (riot) squad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC0NCHq4v3I

by Steel Spike on Jun 1, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Valid point

I do like how Big Ben was able to come into the team and slowly make it his own. Not every team has a strong core to help the QB develop. No doubt the strong team is a big reason for Bens early success. But its impossible to win in this league if the QB doesnt make some plays to win. Bottom line is The Steelers dont win Super Bowl XL without Ben, but Ben doesnt win Super Bowl XL without The Steelers.

by steelerintexas on Jun 2, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions

I seem to remember...

Fu and Zerroe having a hell of a 1-2 punch. I think Cowher’s insistence on using the bus after being out for so long cost us another Super Bowl shot. Had he stayed with the hot hand, we could have won and moved on (they were regularly racking up over 100 yards between them while the bus was out), the Bus was not getting it done when he came back in, but Cowher wouldn’t relent and we lost a big Playoff game.

"I personally don't subscribe to that hocus-pocus. What happened in the other games will have no bearing on the outcome of this game. Each individual performance stands on its own. We're not buying into that."

Mike Tomlin - When asked about beating the Ravens three times in one season in 2008-2009 season.

by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jun 6, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions

They weren't that great

Fu was a novelty at best… A fullback meant to convert a first down on short yards nothing more.

Famous Amos wasn’t that bad, and I think broke 1000 yards one year. But these guys were behind a great O-line and much like Denver this last decade, could field a 1000 yard rusher with ease.

by Mechem on Jun 8, 2011 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, But -

I didn’t say either of them was great as an individual, but they were working great in concert. Point being, they were getting the job done, and when the Bus came back from injury Cowher was insistent on running him up the gut in what was not only his first start after injury, but a very winnable playoff game and got nowhere. Yet he just kept calling his number – should have started with the other two and spelled him in, it was pitiful to watch.

"I personally don't subscribe to that hocus-pocus. What happened in the other games will have no bearing on the outcome of this game. Each individual performance stands on its own. We're not buying into that."

Mike Tomlin - When asked about beating the Ravens three times in one season in 2008-2009 season.

by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jun 16, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes its about time

This has been discussed over and over again.

"Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."

by PCISteeler on May 31, 2011 5:27 PM EDT reply actions

Ben is one of the best

First off , lets look at the facts . Ben changed the Steelers starting his rookie year . How many rookies have ever came into the league and led their team to 13 consecutive wins as a starting quarterback ? Since that time , the Steelers have been one of the premier teams in the NFL and thats because of Ben . Three Super Bowl appearances with two of those being victories . In addition , Ben has NEVER had a first rate offensive line in front of him the entire time hes been a Steeler and thats a fact . Barely average at best , is more like it . At the end of the day , when Ben is finished he’ll have a mantle with at least three or four Vince Lombardi trophys on it and a spot reserved for him in Canton Ohio .

by tdbragg66 on Jun 1, 2011 6:34 AM EDT reply actions

Ben had a good line once.

Marvel, Faneca, Hartings, Simmons, Starks was a good line.

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.
– Joseph Joubert

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jun 1, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions

get the O line healthy and coached up

and I think we will see a dominant offense marching up and down the field.

by SteelersFnRule on Jun 1, 2011 10:25 AM EDT reply actions

this is very tough for me

i think he’s one of the greatest qb’s in the nfl right now, and probably #1 if you’re only grading qb’s if they’re being a sub-par line…but i’m not sure if he’s better than manning or brady right now. maybe only brees one could say is better, also. rodgers needs to do more than just have 2 or 3 great seasons to be considered better.

given how important the run is for us compared to those other 3 teams (saints, colts, patriots) i think he’s certainly top notch when this careers all done and wins another super bowl or 2.

by t1mmy10 on Jun 1, 2011 7:13 PM EDT reply actions

All time? Maybe

He’s definitely in some sorta top list all time. Somebody above put up like a top 25 and I think that’s accurate.

My thing is, frankly stats don’t mean à lot to me.

I don’t give a rats ass if you throw for 5000 yards and 50 TDs if you can’t win in the playoffs when it counts.

The best players have bad days and still bail out their team in the final minutes when it matters. The best players show up when needed. The best players can play in awkward situations and are almost impossible to game plan for.

That’s what Ben does. He comes through in the clutch, he sometimes has an off day but still manages to usually keep the team in the game. We haven’t been blown out in a loooong time (although this year’s pats game was pretty close). And Ben can create something out of nothing better than anybody.

If he wins another SB, I’d say he’s top 10 of all time.

by Mechem on Jun 3, 2011 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

I don’t know if you did it intentionally, but how do you get the accent over the “a”? I’ve always wondered how that was done, but never asked (I’m still pretty computer illiterate).

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.
– Joseph Joubert

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jun 3, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

oh whoops...

I have my keyboard in spanish mode cause I live in Peru and just tapping the semicolon triggers an accent for the next letter.

Happens by accident. Just change your keyboard settings to allow for a spanish keyboard, then change it in your taskbar. semicolon plus letter = á é í ó ú

by Mechem on Jun 8, 2011 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Thanks man, I'll see if I can actually do it now, hahaha.

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.
– Joseph Joubert

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jun 8, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions

Ben is the best QB ever.

Period.

Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...

by StoneColdSteel on Jun 4, 2011 5:58 PM EDT reply actions

Not on a best ever?

Ben is really good probably top 5 of QBs currently. He however is too incosistant and throw way to many INTs to be considered best ever. With better protection and an improving Wr corp. he can get better.

by Steel34D on Jun 4, 2011 7:04 PM EDT reply actions

INT on the decline

Earlier in his career he was throwing a lot of INT’s, but the last couple of years he has really reigned that in and is turning the trend around (think about the Suggs play struggling to get the ball out of bounds) I think there will be many more TD’s than INT’s in his future, he is making better decisions with the ball than he used to.

"I personally don't subscribe to that hocus-pocus. What happened in the other games will have no bearing on the outcome of this game. Each individual performance stands on its own. We're not buying into that."

Mike Tomlin - When asked about beating the Ravens three times in one season in 2008-2009 season.

by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jun 6, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions

No

Best ever qbs are guys who when they were playing were in the top 2 Or 3 for their position. Ben isn’t and their is a clear difference between him and guys like Brady and manning who are both already in the class of “best ever”. You can’t put a guy in the class of Brady, Manning, Montana, and Marino when their is such a clear gap in the level of their game.

by Crizzle12 on Jun 5, 2011 10:57 PM EDT reply actions

Rings???

When it comes down to it – Ben ain’t pretty. BUT (and this is a big BUT) He wins games. He has also been winning championships. His measure is tainted because he isn’t prototypical – but the guys WINS. I think he is up there, if he can secure another ring or two how can you say Manning is better? Manning has had a stacked offense for years, but can’t seem to get it done (Just for the record – Manning is a beast). Just sayin – he doesn’t do it as pretty as everyone else, but he does it.

"I personally don't subscribe to that hocus-pocus. What happened in the other games will have no bearing on the outcome of this game. Each individual performance stands on its own. We're not buying into that."

Mike Tomlin - When asked about beating the Ravens three times in one season in 2008-2009 season.

by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jun 6, 2011 1:46 PM EDT reply actions

Because Manning has the stats

And fear of every dc in the league. He can completely take over games by himself. Ben has had the benefit of playing behind one of the top 3 defenses in the league throughout his career. You look at the steelers offensive rankings since Ben has been their Qb the numbers really aren’t that impressive.

by Crizzle12 on Jun 6, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

If that were true....

Manning would have more than one ring.

He can be defeated like anybody else. See 2005 AFCDG, any Patriots game, the two SB’s where he sucked….

And people say BEN sucked in the SB… How about manning throwing a pick six? And in the Bears game the bears all but gave that game away with like 8 fumbles.

by Mechem on Jun 8, 2011 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Bradshaw isn't considered the best of all time though.

Rings aren’t everything. They’re important, certainly, but to be the greatest you still need to have good to great numbers.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Jun 8, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions

IMO It doesn't work both ways

I sorta think you need multiple rings to be considered the best. However to me the difference between 2-4 isn’t as big a deal.

But the difference between 0-2 SB rings is really big. Zero is a huge step down for me. Even one isn’t super convincing to me. Dilfer is a case in point.

by Mechem on Jun 8, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions

You can't say someone with no stats is the greatest of all time (exaggeration), regardless of rings.

look at Sanchez. If the Jets win 5 SBs (besides being the death of football), but Sanchez is still only throwing 12 TDs to 20 INTs, and only putting up passer ratings in the 70s, you couldn’t put him in with Montana, Brady Elway, Marino, the pre-merger guys…

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Jun 9, 2011 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions

He wouldn't be the reason they would win,

although he might be responsible for winning it. Same as Eli wasn’t responsible for winning XLII, but he won it.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Jun 9, 2011 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions

there are 10 QBs with multiple SB rings

I would put Ben probably 4th on the list behind Montana, Elway, and Bradshaw after would be Brady, Aikmen, Griese, Staubach, Plunkett, Starr.

by lshaffer_69 on Jul 15, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Ahead of Brady really?

by Chris Kole on Aug 8, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Grant'cha that, but

It’s not like the Colt’s have had a bad squad on defense all these years. They are an offense heavy and offense minded team, but they have had a good squad on defense. another thing to keep in mind is that Ben is getting better, he has made marked improvement the last couple of years. By no means do I think he is top 5, but he is getting up there.

"I personally don't subscribe to that hocus-pocus. What happened in the other games will have no bearing on the outcome of this game. Each individual performance stands on its own. We're not buying into that."

Mike Tomlin - When asked about beating the Ravens three times in one season in 2008-2009 season.

by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jun 16, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Have them trade teams

Manning would have 5 rings with that defense, Ben would have nothing with indy.

by Crizzle12 on Jun 8, 2011 8:29 PM EDT reply actions

Doubt it

It has been shown repeatedly that the way to beat Manning is to punch him in the mouth. You really think that Manning would have 5 rings with our O-Line issues? I do know that a large portion of the sacks can be attributed directly to Ben, but really – Manning having to face the Raven’s at least twice a year? You think he comes back in with a broken nose and gets a win? Doubt it.

On the other side, you don’t think Ben could be successful with the receiving corp in Indy and total cohesion on the O-Line? In beg to differ, I don’t think he has the trigger that Manning has, but I think he would be pretty successful in Indy even though that isn’t his style of play.

Once again, as I said in my first post – Manning is a BEAST, but he seems to fold under pressure, but that is exactly where Ben flourishes. I think Ben would do better in Indy than Manning would do in Pittsburgh.

"I personally don't subscribe to that hocus-pocus. What happened in the other games will have no bearing on the outcome of this game. Each individual performance stands on its own. We're not buying into that."

Mike Tomlin - When asked about beating the Ravens three times in one season in 2008-2009 season.

by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jun 16, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions