Ben Roethlisberger vs. the Field: How Big Ben's First Seven NFL Seaons Stack Up Against Other Great NFL Quarterbacks
As some of you may remember, I've enjoyed contributing a statistical post to BTSC every now and then. There are a couple of my posts still linked at the left side of the main page, comparing the numbers of the some of the top RBs, WRs, and QBs in NFL history. I also posted an article comparing Big Ben to Eli Manning several years ago while I was between jobs and free to do more research and writing than usual.
After a long hiatus since then, I thought it might be a good time to look back at Roethlisberger's statistics through seven NFL seasons, and then compare his numbers with other QBs, both retired and active, who have started a sizable number of games like Roethlisberger has since 2004.
I pulled my data from Pro-Football-Reference.com. Using their Player Season Finder, I ran a query on all QBs that had 16,000 or more passing yards in their first seven NFL seasons. That would, of course, include some of the all time greats, but it also includes some of the "Hall of Very Good," as well as some "just ok" QBs. But, my goal here was not another comparison of all time greats. I just wanted to see how Ben stacked up against a fairly large sample size. I set the bar at 16,000 passing yards in order to include Tony Romo, because he is one of the QBs in my mind that has been one of Ben's contemporaries, a la Eli and Philip Rivers. I also thought about Aaron Rodgers, but he's only started three seasons, so I would have had to drop the bar to 12,000 career passing yards. I just thought that would open it up too much.
While this analysis is not exactly the same as the ones that I mentioned above, I followed the same general process. I looked at variety of statistics that were provided by the PFR query, then ranked the players in each category and took the average of each player's rankings. I used the average rankings to determine an overall aggregate ranking for all of the players. For more information the process, I recommend taking a look at one of the posts that I mentioned above (they are under the Statistical Comparisons section).
With that brief intro, let's take a look at the numbers. First, we have the raw statistics from PFR, broken down into two separate tables. Each row of data is sortable.
| Player | From | To | Tm | G | GS | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Yds | TD | Int | Rate |
| Dan Marino* | 1983 | 1989 | MIA | 103 | 101 | 2174 | 3650 | 59.60% | 27853 | 220 | 125 | 89.3 |
| Peyton Manning | 1998 | 2004 | CLT | 112 | 112 | 2464 | 3880 | 63.50% | 29442 | 216 | 120 | 92.3 |
| Kurt Warner | 1998 | 2004 | TOT | 63 | 59 | 1295 | 1965 | 65.90% | 16501 | 108 | 69 | 95.7 |
| Daunte Culpepper | 1999 | 2005 | MIN | 81 | 80 | 1678 | 2607 | 64.40% | 20162 | 135 | 86 | 91.5 |
| Trent Green | 1997 | 2004 | TOT | 88 | 83 | 1705 | 2822 | 60.40% | 21607 | 133 | 82 | 87.9 |
| Marc Bulger | 2002 | 2008 | RAM | 87 | 87 | 1829 | 2924 | 62.60% | 21345 | 117 | 87 | 85.6 |
| Drew Bledsoe | 1993 | 1999 | NWE | 106 | 105 | 2192 | 3921 | 55.90% | 25966 | 147 | 123 | 75.7 |
| Philip Rivers | 2004 | 2010 | SDG | 84 | 80 | 1564 | 2455 | 63.70% | 19661 | 136 | 58 | 97.2 |
| Carson Palmer | 2004 | 2010 | CIN | 97 | 97 | 2024 | 3217 | 62.90% | 22694 | 154 | 100 | 86.9 |
| Brett Favre | 1991 | 1997 | TOT | 97 | 93 | 1971 | 3205 | 61.50% | 22591 | 182 | 95 | 89.3 |
| Drew Brees | 2001 | 2007 | TOT | 91 | 90 | 1921 | 3015 | 63.70% | 21189 | 134 | 82 | 87.9 |
| Warren Moon* | 1984 | 1990 | OTI | 99 | 99 | 1701 | 3025 | 56.20% | 22989 | 134 | 112 | 79.9 |
| Jim Everett | 1986 | 1992 | RAM | 97 | 96 | 1712 | 3003 | 57.00% | 22106 | 134 | 111 | 79.7 |
| Ben Roethlisberger | 2004 | 2010 | PIT | 99 | 98 | 1766 | 2800 | 63.10% | 22502 | 144 | 86 | 92.5 |
| Jim Kelly* | 1986 | 1992 | BUF | 102 | 102 | 1824 | 3024 | 60.30% | 23031 | 161 | 108 | 86.9 |
| Tom Brady | 2000 | 2006 | NWE | 96 | 94 | 1896 | 3064 | 61.90% | 21564 | 147 | 78 | 88.4 |
| Joe Namath* | 1965 | 1971 | NYJ | 78 | 73 | 1144 | 2281 | 50.20% | 17283 | 107 | 122 | 68.8 |
| Aaron Brooks | 2000 | 2006 | TOT | 93 | 90 | 1673 | 2963 | 56.50% | 20261 | 123 | 92 | 78.5 |
| Mark Brunell | 1994 | 2000 | TOT | 89 | 84 | 1608 | 2672 | 60.20% | 19212 | 106 | 66 | 85.1 |
| Eli Manning | 2004 | 2010 | NYG | 105 | 103 | 1932 | 3332 | 58.00% | 22646 | 156 | 113 | 80.2 |
| Bernie Kosar | 1985 | 1991 | CLE | 94 | 92 | 1671 | 2857 | 58.50% | 19937 | 103 | 71 | 81.6 |
| John Elway* | 1983 | 1989 | DEN | 100 | 98 | 1665 | 3070 | 54.20% | 21195 | 120 | 114 | 73.6 |
| Boomer Esiason | 1984 | 1990 | CIN | 101 | 93 | 1520 | 2687 | 56.60% | 21381 | 150 | 98 | 85.8 |
| Jeff Garcia | 1999 | 2005 | TOT | 91 | 86 | 1695 | 2785 | 60.90% | 19076 | 126 | 71 | 85.8 |
| Johnny Unitas* | 1956 | 1962 | CLT | 86 | 81 | 1252 | 2316 | 54.10% | 18010 | 148 | 119 | 79.4 |
| Ken O'Brien | 1984 | 1990 | NYJ | 98 | 87 | 1697 | 2878 | 59.00% | 20444 | 109 | 78 | 82.2 |
| Jake Plummer | 1997 | 2003 | TOT | 95 | 93 | 1729 | 3056 | 56.60% | 19804 | 105 | 121 | 71.2 |
| Jeff George | 1990 | 1996 | TOT | 87 | 84 | 1588 | 2712 | 58.60% | 18126 | 91 | 78 | 77.9 |
| Phil Simms | 1979 | 1986 | NYG | 85 | 82 | 1326 | 2492 | 53.20% | 17585 | 104 | 103 | 72.5 |
| Donovan McNabb | 1999 | 2005 | PHI | 94 | 88 | 1718 | 2943 | 58.40% | 19433 | 134 | 66 | 84.1 |
| Jon Kitna | 1997 | 2003 | TOT | 85 | 76 | 1589 | 2704 | 58.80% | 17537 | 103 | 98 | 75.7 |
| Neil Lomax | 1981 | 1987 | CRD | 94 | 87 | 1562 | 2710 | 57.60% | 19376 | 116 | 79 | 82 |
| Kerry Collins | 1995 | 2001 | TOT | 94 | 88 | 1616 | 2959 | 54.60% | 19200 | 100 | 104 | 71.3 |
| Jim Zorn | 1976 | 1982 | SEA | 94 | 92 | 1483 | 2768 | 53.60% | 18876 | 100 | 124 | 68.5 |
| Mark Rypien | 1988 | 1994 | TOT | 83 | 75 | 1303 | 2335 | 55.80% | 16622 | 105 | 78 | 79.3 |
| Troy Aikman* | 1989 | 1995 | DAL | 98 | 98 | 1704 | 2713 | 62.80% | 19607 | 98 | 85 | 83.5 |
| Norm Snead | 1961 | 1967 | TOT | 89 | 85 | 1162 | 2323 | 50.00% | 17232 | 112 | 131 | 67.3 |
| Neil O'Donnell | 1991 | 1997 | TOT | 87 | 81 | 1438 | 2519 | 57.10% | 16810 | 89 | 53 | 80.5 |
| Vinny Testaverde | 1987 | 1993 | TOT | 86 | 78 | 1256 | 2390 | 52.60% | 16617 | 91 | 121 | 66.4 |
| Otto Graham* | 1946 | 1952 | CLE | 90 | 79 | 1057 | 1943 | 54.40% | 17049 | 137 | 101 | 85.8 |
| Tony Romo | 2004 | 2010 | DAL | 89 | 61 | 1326 | 2070 | 64.10% | 16650 | 118 | 62 | 95.5 |
| Joe Montana* | 1979 | 1985 | SFO | 103 | 79 | 1627 | 2571 | 63.30% | 19262 | 133 | 67 | 92.4 |
| Jay Schroeder | 1985 | 1991 | TOT | 87 | 79 | 1092 | 2158 | 50.60% | 16245 | 94 | 88 | 73.1 |
| Steve McNair | 1995 | 2001 | OTI | 87 | 79 | 1333 | 2288 | 58.30% | 16035 | 86 | 61 | 81.3 |
| Fran Tarkenton* | 1961 | 1967 | TOT | 98 | 91 | 1228 | 2276 | 54.00% | 17667 | 142 | 114 | 79.3 |
| Steve Grogan | 1975 | 1981 | NWE | 93 | 86 | 1123 | 2188 | 51.30% | 16485 | 114 | 140 | 67 |
| John Hadl | 1962 | 1968 | SDG | 98 | 74 | 1081 | 2188 | 49.40% | 16773 | 133 | 134 | 69.9 |
Table 1
| Passing | Passing | Passing | Passing | Passing | Passing | Passing | Passing | ||||
| Player | From | To | Tm | Sk | Y/A | SkYds | AY/A | ANY/A | Y/G | TD/G | Int/G |
| Dan Marino* | 1983 | 1989 | MIA | 83 | 7.63 | 670 | 7.3 | 6.95 | 270.4 | 2.1359 | 1.2136 |
| Peyton Manning | 1998 | 2004 | CLT | 139 | 7.59 | 941 | 7.31 | 6.82 | 262.9 | 1.9286 | 1.0714 |
| Kurt Warner | 1998 | 2004 | TOT | 153 | 8.4 | 913 | 7.92 | 6.91 | 261.9 | 1.7143 | 1.0952 |
| Daunte Culpepper | 1999 | 2005 | MIN | 228 | 7.73 | 1214 | 7.29 | 6.27 | 248.9 | 1.6667 | 1.0617 |
| Trent Green | 1997 | 2004 | TOT | 190 | 7.66 | 1179 | 7.29 | 6.44 | 245.5 | 1.5114 | 0.9318 |
| Marc Bulger | 2002 | 2008 | RAM | 240 | 7.3 | 1778 | 6.76 | 5.69 | 245.3 | 1.3448 | 1 |
| Drew Bledsoe | 1993 | 1999 | NWE | 212 | 6.62 | 1493 | 5.96 | 5.29 | 245 | 1.3868 | 1.1604 |
| Philip Rivers | 2004 | 2010 | SDG | 140 | 8.01 | 868 | 8.05 | 7.28 | 234.1 | 1.619 | 0.6905 |
| Carson Palmer | 2004 | 2010 | CIN | 160 | 7.05 | 1116 | 6.61 | 5.97 | 234 | 1.5876 | 1.0309 |
| Brett Favre | 1991 | 1997 | TOT | 194 | 7.05 | 1240 | 6.85 | 6.09 | 232.9 | 1.8763 | 0.9794 |
| Drew Brees | 2001 | 2007 | TOT | 126 | 7.03 | 938 | 6.69 | 6.13 | 232.8 | 1.4725 | 0.9011 |
| Warren Moon* | 1984 | 1990 | OTI | 242 | 7.6 | 1906 | 6.82 | 5.73 | 232.2 | 1.3535 | 1.1313 |
| Jim Everett | 1986 | 1992 | RAM | 168 | 7.36 | 1202 | 6.59 | 5.86 | 227.9 | 1.3814 | 1.1443 |
| Ben Roethlisberger | 2004 | 2010 | PIT | 274 | 8.04 | 1821 | 7.68 | 6.41 | 227.3 | 1.4545 | 0.8687 |
| Jim Kelly* | 1986 | 1992 | BUF | 201 | 7.62 | 1544 | 7.07 | 6.15 | 225.8 | 1.5784 | 1.0588 |
| Tom Brady | 2000 | 2006 | NWE | 182 | 7.04 | 1150 | 6.85 | 6.11 | 224.6 | 1.5313 | 0.8125 |
| Joe Namath* | 1965 | 1971 | NYJ | 19 | 7.58 | 180 | 6.11 | 5.43 | 221.6 | 1.3718 | 1.5641 |
| Aaron Brooks | 2000 | 2006 | TOT | 235 | 6.84 | 1454 | 6.27 | 5.36 | 217.9 | 1.3226 | 0.9892 |
| Mark Brunell | 1994 | 2000 | TOT | 235 | 7.19 | 1335 | 6.87 | 5.86 | 215.9 | 1.191 | 0.7416 |
| Eli Manning | 2004 | 2010 | NYG | 166 | 6.8 | 1177 | 6.21 | 5.58 | 215.7 | 1.4857 | 1.0762 |
| Bernie Kosar | 1985 | 1991 | CLE | 217 | 6.98 | 1340 | 6.58 | 5.68 | 212.1 | 1.0957 | 0.7553 |
| John Elway* | 1983 | 1989 | DEN | 207 | 6.9 | 1589 | 6.01 | 5.15 | 212 | 1.2 | 1.14 |
| Boomer Esiason | 1984 | 1990 | CIN | 186 | 7.96 | 1475 | 7.43 | 6.44 | 211.7 | 1.4851 | 0.9703 |
| Jeff Garcia | 1999 | 2005 | TOT | 133 | 6.85 | 703 | 6.61 | 6.07 | 209.6 | 1.3846 | 0.7802 |
| Johnny Unitas* | 1956 | 1962 | CLT | 7.78 | 6.74 | 209.4 | 1.7209 | 1.3837 | |||
| Ken O'Brien | 1984 | 1990 | NYJ | 295 | 7.1 | 2204 | 6.64 | 5.33 | 208.6 | 1.1122 | 0.7959 |
| Jake Plummer | 1997 | 2003 | TOT | 229 | 6.48 | 1399 | 5.39 | 4.58 | 208.5 | 1.1053 | 1.2737 |
| Jeff George | 1990 | 1996 | TOT | 232 | 6.68 | 1739 | 6.06 | 4.99 | 208.3 | 1.046 | 0.8966 |
| Phil Simms | 1979 | 1986 | NYG | 268 | 7.06 | 2077 | 6.03 | 4.69 | 206.9 | 1.2235 | 1.2118 |
| Donovan McNabb | 1999 | 2005 | PHI | 234 | 6.6 | 1462 | 6.5 | 5.57 | 206.7 | 1.4255 | 0.7021 |
| Jon Kitna | 1997 | 2003 | TOT | 165 | 6.49 | 1039 | 5.62 | 4.93 | 206.3 | 1.2118 | 1.1529 |
| Neil Lomax | 1981 | 1987 | CRD | 316 | 7.15 | 2385 | 6.69 | 5.21 | 206.1 | 1.234 | 0.8404 |
| Kerry Collins | 1995 | 2001 | TOT | 180 | 6.49 | 1216 | 5.58 | 4.88 | 204.3 | 1.0638 | 1.1064 |
| Jim Zorn | 1976 | 1982 | SEA | 191 | 6.82 | 1418 | 5.53 | 4.69 | 200.8 | 1.0638 | 1.3191 |
| Mark Rypien | 1988 | 1994 | TOT | 84 | 7.12 | 589 | 6.51 | 6.05 | 200.3 | 1.2651 | 0.9398 |
| Troy Aikman* | 1989 | 1995 | DAL | 167 | 7.23 | 1080 | 6.54 | 5.79 | 200.1 | 1 | 0.8673 |
| Norm Snead | 1961 | 1967 | TOT | 7.42 | 5.84 | 193.6 | 1.2584 | 1.4719 | |||
| Neil O'Donnell | 1991 | 1997 | TOT | 211 | 6.67 | 1545 | 6.43 | 5.37 | 193.2 | 1.023 | 0.6092 |
| Vinny Testaverde | 1987 | 1993 | TOT | 214 | 6.95 | 1650 | 5.44 | 4.36 | 193.2 | 1.0581 | 1.407 |
| Otto Graham* | 1946 | 1952 | CLE | 8.77 | 7.85 | 189.4 | 1.5222 | 1.1222 | |||
| Tony Romo | 2004 | 2010 | DAL | 106 | 8.04 | 660 | 7.84 | 7.15 | 187.1 | 1.3258 | 0.6966 |
| Joe Montana* | 1979 | 1985 | SFO | 151 | 7.49 | 1067 | 7.35 | 6.55 | 187 | 1.2913 | 0.6505 |
| Jay Schroeder | 1985 | 1991 | TOT | 159 | 7.53 | 1248 | 6.56 | 5.57 | 186.7 | 1.0805 | 1.0115 |
| Steve McNair | 1995 | 2001 | OTI | 156 | 7.01 | 940 | 6.56 | 5.76 | 184.3 | 0.9885 | 0.7011 |
| Fran Tarkenton* | 1961 | 1967 | TOT | 7.76 | 6.76 | 180.3 | 1.449 | 1.1633 | |||
| Steve Grogan | 1975 | 1981 | NWE | 156 | 7.53 | 1317 | 5.7 | 4.76 | 177.3 | 1.2258 | 1.5054 |
| John Hadl | 1962 | 1968 | SDG | 7.67 | 6.13 | 171.2 | 1.3571 | 1.3673 |
Table 2
Before going forward, just a couple of notes about the statistics above. First, the only statistics in Tables 1 and 2 that are not straight from PFR are the final 2 columns in Table 2. I calculated the TD/G and Int/G by simply dividing each player's total TDs and Ints by the number of games played in their first seven years in the league. Second, some of the players have sack statistics listed (or very small numbers) since the NFL has not always tracked quarterback sacks (Wikipedia says that the NFL began tracking how many times QBs were sacked in 1963, while they began tracking defensive player sacks in 1982).
As I touched on above, I followed a similar process to what I used in the RBs, WRs, and QBs articles that are posted on the left side of the front page. Basically, I ranked the players by completion percentage, passer rating, and the per attempt and per game statistics given in the tables above by sorting the players on those statistics. I then averaged each players rankings and gave them an overall ranking by sorting according to their mean average ranking. The results were placed into the table below.
| Player | Cmp% | Rate | Y/A | AY/A | Y/G | TD/G | Int/G | ANY/A | Mean Avg |
| Philip Rivers | 4 | 1 | 5 | 1 | 8 | 7 | 3 | 1 | 3.750 |
| Kurt Warner | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 29 | 4 | 6.000 |
| Peyton Manning | 6 | 6 | 15 | 8 | 2 | 2 | 27 | 5 | 8.875 |
| Ben Roethlisberger | 8 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 14 | 16 | 14 | 9 | 9.250 |
| Daunte Culpepper | 2 | 7 | 9 | 10 | 4 | 6 | 26 | 10 | 9.250 |
| Tony Romo | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 41 | 26 | 4 | 2 | 10.750 |
| Trent Green | 15 | 12 | 11 | 11 | 5 | 12 | 17 | 7 | 11.250 |
| Dan Marino* | 18 | 9 | 12 | 9 | 1 | 1 | 39 | 3 | 11.500 |
| Brett Favre | 13 | 8 | 30 | 14 | 10 | 3 | 20 | 14 | 14.000 |
| Jim Kelly* | 16 | 14 | 13 | 12 | 15 | 9 | 25 | 11 | 14.375 |
| Joe Montana* | 7 | 5 | 19 | 7 | 42 | 28 | 2 | 6 | 14.500 |
| Tom Brady | 12 | 10 | 31 | 15 | 16 | 10 | 11 | 13 | 14.750 |
| Boomer Esiason | 29 | 16 | 6 | 6 | 23 | 14 | 19 | 8 | 15.125 |
| Drew Brees | 5 | 11 | 32 | 21 | 11 | 15 | 16 | 12 | 15.375 |
| Carson Palmer | 9 | 13 | 29 | 23 | 9 | 8 | 24 | 17 | 16.500 |
| Marc Bulger | 11 | 18 | 22 | 18 | 6 | 25 | 22 | 23 | 18.125 |
| Mark Brunell | 17 | 19 | 24 | 13 | 19 | 36 | 7 | 18 | 19.125 |
| Jeff Garcia | 14 | 15 | 37 | 24 | 24 | 20 | 9 | 15 | 19.750 |
| Otto Graham* | 36 | 17 | 1 | 3 | 40 | 11 | 31 | 19.857 | |
| Warren Moon* | 32 | 28 | 14 | 16 | 12 | 24 | 32 | 22 | 22.500 |
| Johnny Unitas* | 38 | 30 | 7 | 19 | 25 | 4 | 43 | 23.714 | |
| Jim Everett | 28 | 29 | 21 | 25 | 13 | 21 | 34 | 19 | 23.750 |
| Ken O'Brien | 19 | 22 | 27 | 22 | 26 | 37 | 10 | 31 | 24.250 |
| Troy Aikman* | 10 | 21 | 23 | 29 | 36 | 46 | 13 | 20 | 24.750 |
| Bernie Kosar | 22 | 24 | 34 | 26 | 21 | 39 | 8 | 24 | 24.750 |
| Donovan McNabb | 23 | 20 | 44 | 31 | 30 | 18 | 6 | 26 | 24.750 |
| Neil Lomax | 26 | 23 | 25 | 20 | 32 | 31 | 12 | 33 | 25.250 |
| Eli Manning | 25 | 27 | 40 | 34 | 20 | 13 | 28 | 25 | 26.500 |
| Mark Rypien | 34 | 31 | 26 | 30 | 35 | 29 | 18 | 16 | 27.375 |
| Fran Tarkenton* | 39 | 32 | 8 | 17 | 45 | 17 | 37 | 27.857 | |
| Steve McNair | 24 | 25 | 33 | 28 | 44 | 47 | 5 | 21 | 28.375 |
| Aaron Brooks | 31 | 33 | 38 | 33 | 18 | 27 | 21 | 30 | 28.875 |
| Neil O'Donnell | 27 | 26 | 42 | 32 | 38 | 45 | 1 | 29 | 30.000 |
| Drew Bledsoe | 33 | 36 | 43 | 40 | 7 | 19 | 36 | 32 | 30.750 |
| Joe Namath* | 45 | 43 | 16 | 36 | 17 | 22 | 47 | 28 | 31.750 |
| Jeff George | 21 | 34 | 41 | 37 | 28 | 44 | 15 | 35 | 31.875 |
| Jay Schroeder | 44 | 38 | 18 | 27 | 43 | 40 | 23 | 27 | 32.500 |
| John Elway* | 37 | 37 | 36 | 39 | 22 | 35 | 33 | 34 | 34.125 |
| Jon Kitna | 20 | 35 | 45 | 43 | 31 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 34.875 |
| John Hadl | 47 | 42 | 10 | 35 | 47 | 23 | 42 | 35.143 | |
| Phil Simms | 41 | 39 | 28 | 38 | 29 | 33 | 38 | 39 | 35.625 |
| Norm Snead | 46 | 45 | 20 | 41 | 37 | 30 | 45 | 37.714 | |
| Kerry Collins | 35 | 40 | 46 | 44 | 33 | 41 | 30 | 37 | 38.250 |
| Steve Grogan | 43 | 46 | 17 | 42 | 46 | 32 | 46 | 38 | 38.750 |
| Jake Plummer | 30 | 41 | 47 | 47 | 27 | 38 | 40 | 41 | 38.875 |
| Jim Zorn | 40 | 44 | 39 | 45 | 34 | 42 | 41 | 40 | 40.625 |
| Vinny Testaverde | 42 | 47 | 35 | 46 | 39 | 43 | 44 | 42 | 42.250 |
Table 3
While this analysis is not as exhaustive as the previous ones, I think it still gives a good idea of how the different players compare with each other. My goal here was more a quick assessment on how Ben compares with other QBs through 7 seasons. And frankly, I think that my results were probably pretty similar to what they would have been had I followed the same process that I did in the previous posts, but they only required about 1/10th of the time and effort. Anyway, let's take a look at the results.
Not surprisingly, Ben stacks up pretty well in every category. He's tied for fourth overall with Dante Culpepper, with an average ranking of 9.25 across the various categories. Of the eight categories, he ranks in the top 5 in 3 of them, top 10 in 5, top 15 in 7 and top 16 in all 8. It's not surprising that most of the top QBs in this analysis are players who played since 2000, but it's interesting to note the players in this analysis that Ben is ahead of: Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Carson Palmer, and significantly higher than Eli Manning. He also compares favorably with Peyton Manning and Kurt Warner, although slightly behind them.
Some have said that Ben is just a "game manager," benefiting from the Steelers' defense and run heavy offense, but he is 14th in yards per game in NFL history through his first seven years. The "game manager" tag may have fit his first 3 years (although few game managers excel as Ben did in his first couple years), but as we all know, the Steelers have not been a top tier rushing since 2007. In fact, given the more limited nature of Ben's offensive game early in his career, his yards/game ranking is actually higher than we would expect. He has obviously made up for it in years 4-7. While increasing his yards/game in recent years, Roethlisberger has still maintained his high completion percentage and passer rating.
On the negative side, we all know about Ben's sack numbers. In fact, I only count 2 QBs with more sacks in their first 7 seasons.However, in ANY/A (adjusted net yards/attempt), which is the one stat in this analysis to incorporate sacks into it, Ben still looks pretty good. Even though I believe Ben has been the most sacked QB in the last 5 years, it has not had an overall huge impact on his productivity. He is still the 9th ranked QB for ANY/A in this analysis.
Taken together, I think these results tell us what we already knew in Steeler Nation. Ben Roethlisberger is one of the elite QBs in this league. After seven seasons, he has one of the best career starts in NFL history. To be fair, some of these QBs' per game numbers are adversely affected since they were not starters in their first season or two. Tony Romo, for example, ranks low in yards/game and TDs/game. But, I actually think that's fine because this analysis sort of builds in some additional credit for being ready to start as a rookie. Players like Big Ben who were up to the task of playing at a high level as rookies should get credit for that. Besides, the players who did not start as rookies were also assisted in Ints/game (Romo ranked 4th in that category), so it is offset somewhat.
I know that Ben's sack totals are a concern, and could conceivably shorten his career, but I think there are a couple of things that we can take some hope in. One, Ben is only 29 years old. While not the average, there are certainly players who have played into their late 30s. The second item to give us hope is related to the first. That is the fact that the most sacked QB in NFL history, John Elway, was one of those players who played into his late 30's. So, I fully expect to see number 7 in a Steelers uniform for at least another 5 years, if not longer. And, based on his performance so far in his career, I expect him finish his career as a sure Hall of Famer.
On a side note, as an NC State alum, I would be remiss if I didn't point out Philip Rivers at the top of this analysis. I know, many of you don't like him, but he is clearly a great QB. He has not had the playoff success that Ben has, but I partly chalk that up to having Norv Turner at Head Coach.
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Some have said that Ben is just a “game manager”
And each time they do it drives me insane. Stereotypes die hard. Like most stereotypes, this particular truism manages to breathe despite a mountain of countervailing evidence. Perhaps it’s because this one was born during Ben’s rookie year, and as such represents a first impression — often the misconceptions most resistant to change.
Anyway, very nice work. It’s nice to see the things I think systematized. It helps me reassure myself that I’m not crazy.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Oh Brother...
Yep, and these are probably the same people that claim Peyton Manning hasn’t won more in the playoffs because of his ‘lackluster’ surrounding cast. How about this: one guy steps up when it matters most, the other guy plays his best in October versus Houston.
by pistil_stamen on Aug 30, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
AY/A gives 20 yards for a TD and -45 for an INT. ANY/A adds in sack yardage and sacks to the # of attempts.
It is a small margin (~.007) but Romo does beat Ben in Y/A.
by Phantaskippy on Aug 29, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Just wanted to let you know that I can't sort the tables on Google Chrome. Don't know if its just chrome or if its just me
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by seton hall and steelers on Aug 29, 2011 8:52 PM EDT reply actions
should be fixed
that was my bad.
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
by Michael Bean on Aug 29, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
yep it works know
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by seton hall and steelers on Aug 29, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
Many will point out that wins should often be credited to the defense or the running game. However, credit must also go the QB whose talents can match the style of the team.
"They eat fish and are majestic" - Great Sergios Ghost
There is a reason why when discussing how good or bad a QB is, their record always comes up as one of the first points made. When have we ever seen a RB or LB discussed based on their record?
The QB’s only objective is to dictate the flow of the game, and it is the most important factor in winning and losing. Ben does just that, as does Flacco (most of the time).
"'If there isn't a bone sticking out of my leg, I'm playing" - Marshall Yanda
Do the wins count for a QB if the stats aren’t that great?
"'If there isn't a bone sticking out of my leg, I'm playing" - Marshall Yanda
yes
Dilfer
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Aug 30, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Saw Darren Woodson’s top 10 QB’s in the NFL and he had Matt Ryan at 6 and Ben at 8. I wanted to vomit.
"'If there isn't a bone sticking out of my leg, I'm playing" - Marshall Yanda
What a freaking idiot. So dumb
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by seton hall and steelers on Aug 29, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
what?
i’m going to have to…………………..go ahead and sorta……………..disagree? with darren woodson
what the hell has matt ryan done in this league? besides disappear when it mattered? wow..i am flabbergasted by this claim, but at the same time, it makes me feel good that i don’t waste any more time watching espn
Romo and Freeman were in the list as well if you care.
Flacco was like 16 when they asked him where he ranks.
I would go like this.
1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Ben
4. Brees
5. Rivers
6. Manning (he is on the fast decline)
7. Flacco
8. Eli
9. Ryan
10. Freeman
"'If there isn't a bone sticking out of my leg, I'm playing" - Marshall Yanda
Eli
I don’t see him as a top ten QB after watching him yesterday. I didn’t see the entire first 1/2 but Eli and Sanchez seemed to be having a competition to see who was worse. Eli would do some decent stuff then do something really stupid whereas Sanchez didn’t seem to know where his receivers were going to be going.
"Canada is a great country, one of the hopes of the world. We can be a better one – a country of greater equality, justice, and opportunity." Jack Layton (R.I.P.)
"My city's still breathing (but barely it's true) through buildings gone missing like teeth. The sidewalks are watching me think about you, all sparkled with broken glass. I'm back with scars to show. Back with the streets I know. They never take me anywhere but here. " John K Samson (Left and Leaving)
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Aug 30, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I put Eli there because of what he was able to accomplish in 2007. He has definitely struggled since then, but his performance in all 3 playoff games and the Superbowl that year was historic. He will always be in my top 10 because of that.
"'If there isn't a bone sticking out of my leg, I'm playing" - Marshall Yanda
Eli
PFR blog had a look at Eli’s career a year or two ago and it basically looked like he had about an 8-10 game stretch at the end of 2007 (through the playoffs) where he was playing at an elite level, but his numbers before and since have been pretty mediocre. Maybe I can dig it up when I get home tonight. It’s harder to do on a Blackberry.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 30, 2011 3:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I believe it. Eli has always been a 4,000 yard, 30 or so TD’s and 20 or so INT guy. While not the greatest, certainly not the worst.
And in my opinion, big time players step up in big time moments and he did just that in 2007. If he had continued performances like that, he would be in the top 5 most likely. But turning to ball over 30+ times in one season is definitely dropping you.
I would still take Eli over Cutler, Cassel, Schaub, Romo and a few others.
"'If there isn't a bone sticking out of my leg, I'm playing" - Marshall Yanda
your list is pretty accurate
but i would definitely have romo in there. if i were to start a team and i had to choose between eli romo freeman and ryan….it would hands down be romo
"i dont subscribe to hocus pocus"
At this point
I’d take Freeman. Romo’s already choked too many times, and as far as I can tell, Eli basically caught lightning in a bottle for one half season.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 30, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree on eli
romo is a good QB. though it was embarassing he choked once. i think he is on a team full of me guys with a sub par defense. if he can stay healthy he will have a great season. i am not a cowboys fan by any stretch of the imagination but i could see him having anywhere between 30 and 35 tds this year
"i dont subscribe to hocus pocus"
+1
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Aug 31, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
how is manning on fast decline?
his stats last year were in line with what he always does, and he got that awful team to the playoffs on his own again? for the most part i agree, but peyton is still number 1 in my opinion until he is proven not to be, instead of speculated not to be.
good move leaving the vastly over rated romo off the list, and the 27th best starting qb in the nfl (sanchez) off.
I mean it is Darren Woodson
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Aug 30, 2011 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
So Wait...
According to someone who gets paid to analyze the NFL for a living, there are currently 7 quarterbacks better than Ben Roethlisberger? Based on what metric(s)? Last time I checked, wins, and specifically, wins in the playoffs are what matter most…no?
10-3, 3 super bowls, 2 rings. And there are 7 guys better than that? Haha…good one Darren Woodson.
by pistil_stamen on Aug 30, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Playoff wins obviously don’t matter in this league. It is all a matter of how pretty your face is. Why do you think Ben and Joe get dogged on so much? They are arguablt the two worst advertising faces in the league.
"'If there isn't a bone sticking out of my leg, I'm playing" - Marshall Yanda
I am not complaining about Flacco's looks
"Canada is a great country, one of the hopes of the world. We can be a better one – a country of greater equality, justice, and opportunity." Jack Layton (R.I.P.)
"My city's still breathing (but barely it's true) through buildings gone missing like teeth. The sidewalks are watching me think about you, all sparkled with broken glass. I'm back with scars to show. Back with the streets I know. They never take me anywhere but here. " John K Samson (Left and Leaving)
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Aug 30, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Brady vs. Ben and other thoughts.
If you add in rushing TD’s (14BR-3TB) Ben pretty much beats Brady across the board. Tom wins the fewer INT award, but loses just about everything else.
A valuable tool for anyone that goes to PFR and runs this query, the advanced “index” numbers are a comparison of the QB’s stats compared to the players of their day. When you sort by those, Otto Graham and Joe Montana shoot up to the top of the list, showing how much better they were than the QB’s of their time.
I was surprised to see Otto only rank 4th in rushing TD’s among these QB’s, one of my favorite stats on Otto Graham is that he is 15th all time in rushing TD’s scored from 1 yard or closer, 3 more than Jim Brown.
Also in sack%index, or how often the player was sacked per pass attempt vs. their peers, Ben is the lowest at 81. (100 is league average, 120 is super good, 80 is super bad.)
Impressive compilation of stats
Maybe Ben isn’t quite at the top of the heap yet, but none of those other guys can/could throw defensive ends and LBs off of their backs before completing passes. Ben is truly in a class by himself.
new to the site
but where have you been all my life? all on yahoo, all i hear is how steelers fans are stupid rednecks blah blah blah…two days on this site…i’d say we have some of the most intelligent fans in the league, almost all of the comments are well spoken, the writers write thought provoking articles with solid points all around..
just want to say thank you, to the author of this, and pretty much every other story i’ve read
and the people who comment.. you are all awesome
thanks for finding us!
Stick around, we keep things humming year round. Thanks for the kind words.
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
by Michael Bean on Aug 30, 2011 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I'd say stick around...
Great articles all year round…real fun around draft time to hear people’s perspective on some of the lesser known guys that may be on Steelers radar.
This is a damn good post
Great work.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
One of your posts was the one of the first I read on BTSC...
And it is articles like these why I keep coming back. I wish I had the time to put together an statistical article, the closest I cam to that was a post on the Yahoo story about "Every one being Elite comparing the sacks per game of Ben, Peyton Tom Dree and Aaron to attempt to prove Ben’s O-line troubles was one reason he hasn’t put up the number a Tom Brady has. I even took away 20% or 1 out of every five sacks of Ben to account for his style of play. The hater however stated stuff like “Ben causes 60-80% of his sack”. Tht is getting off topic though great post!
It was the one "Comparing the best Defenses in NFL History"
Where you compared the 08’ Steelers to the best in history ’00 Ravens, ’76 Steelers, ’85 Bears etc.
Do you have a link to that one? I would like to read it...
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Aug 30, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, great information.
That is a ton of analysis – Funny, I had never paid any attention to the ’77 Falcons either until seeing the same show on the NFL network.
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Aug 30, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I wish I had more time to do these, but my new job (well its been over a year now) doesn’t allow the amount of time that my previous job did. Better than having no job, though.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 30, 2011 12:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Where is Terry Bradshaw on the list?
And how does he so often get left out of the great Quarterback discussion, especially in the ’burgh?
Bradshaw had just under 11,000yds in his first 7 years.
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Aug 30, 2011 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
If Rings were a column, he’d have to be up there, and I didn’t realize he was that far back with the fantasy stats.
by Blade of Steel on Aug 30, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a running era
"Canada is a great country, one of the hopes of the world. We can be a better one – a country of greater equality, justice, and opportunity." Jack Layton (R.I.P.)
"My city's still breathing (but barely it's true) through buildings gone missing like teeth. The sidewalks are watching me think about you, all sparkled with broken glass. I'm back with scars to show. Back with the streets I know. They never take me anywhere but here. " John K Samson (Left and Leaving)
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Aug 30, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
He was big when he needed to be
otherwise he was handing off.
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Aug 30, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
But by the standards of his era, he was still an incredibly dominant QB.
This is why Rings count for a lot when it comes to the Hall.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Aug 30, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
No Doubt
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Aug 31, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I am surprised not to see Steve Young on the list?
But then did some research, he din’t get the start in SF until his 8th year and 29,000 of his 33,000+ yards came in SF. Wow, kind of a big guy not making the list.
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
Since I was just looking at the first seven years of a players’ career, there are probably some big names left off. Anyone who didn’t start a lot in their first 3-4 years may not have made the cut.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 30, 2011 12:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That one just jumped out at me as not being on the list
so I went to figure out why and did. ;)
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Aug 30, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed
Growing up a 49ers fan, most of us were sure, for several years, that Young was NEVER going to develop into a starting caliber QB, just because he tried to run nearly every time things got hectic, rather than passing.
We were wrong about that. Also, I think Young may go down in history as the most under-appreciated Hall of Fame QB of all time, simply because of whom he came directly after.
Jeff Garcia has a similar argument among “pretty good” QBs.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Aug 30, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Overall great post
Thanks for the work you put in for the rest of us! great info.
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
If I was Ben's agent, this is probably the ammo I would be going into negotiations with.
Wonder if they even know this stuff.
brought to you by Carl Jr's.
doomsday 2015
lol
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Aug 30, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Great contrast to the new QBR developed by Trent Dilfer and ESPN
Can this be used to generate a QB rating?
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
Woodson is completely misguided
But I do think There is a black mark on Ben in and around the league. Whether it’s his rumored arrogance (I said rumored) or Midgville…….there is something going on. Rarely is he spoken of as an elite QB and He gets hit late all of the time…again this preseason with no flags. Also, he should have been the MVP of the cards Super Bowl. How he wasn’t is still beyond me.
Every elite QB has a bit of arrogance
Ben has been described as a bit of a douchebag before, but that is no different from a guy like Phillip Rivers.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Aug 30, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
On that note, I hate rivers
I would probably love him if he were ours, because the guy is a good QB. however Rivers and LT just came off as some whiny B*tches to me a few years back – and the whole thing with being a douche to Cutler while they were pounding the Broncos – just don’t like the guy…
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Aug 30, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
why?
how can you hate rivers? that guy is the embodiment of a “good ol boy” all he cares about is football..he played with a torn acl because his team needed him in the playoffs, while LDT (i won’t disgrace the name of lt by giving it to this whiny little b) is sitting on the sidelines with a stubbed toe…he is definitely not a a whiny b. and on top of that, he also seems like a great guy to hang out with
Eh
Without weighing in on it one way or the other, at least the other top QB’s, even if they are not likable people, have stayed out of legal trouble. I think that’s the reason for the somewhat different standard, and I have no sympathy for him with regard to it.
Friends in SD have also met Rivers, and, while they are incredibly biased, said he comes off as approachable and competitive, rather than just a jerk. He and Cutler both need someone to advise them on how to NOT look pouty on camera.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Aug 30, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Don't like Cutler either
not sure if he is a B*tch or just makes that face all the time, but really – you are getting paid to play football, cheer up. I just thought the whole thing with Rivers was completely classless and for lack of a better term – “unsportsmanlike conduct”. It isn’t like they were losing and something went down and he was pissed, they were winning and he was being a douche on camera – can’t stand the guy since then.
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Aug 31, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
no offense
but you don’t know what’s going on in that mans life…it’s easy to look at it in simplistic terms like "you have money’ and “you play football for a living”
but for all you know, his girlfriend that he loved broke his heart, at the same time that his mom had cancer, and his dad killed himself… whether this is true or not is irrelevant, the point is..you don’t know what another person is going through..all you know is what you see on tv
Agree, again...something is going on. Not big on conspiracy theories...but this is funny
My kids play madden and they tell me when they playBen can have 3 td’s and 300 yards and yet the MVP of the game is someone like Kiesel because he recovered a fumble in the end zone. They always laugh that Ben can never win the game MVP no matte what.
that's weird
i have a steelers franchise on madden 10 that i’ve been using since it came out (up to year 15, when ben retired)
and i’d say he was the player of the game in about 98% of my games that i won
Good stats but only tells part of the story
as evidenced by the fact that Daunte Culpepper has the same overall rating as Ben. In Culpepper’s case, the stats don’t show that he was throwing to Cris Carter and Randy Moss. There are so many variables influencing overall production, that true positional comparisons really have to be more limited/specific (i.e. which QB would do best in a given situation) and include scouting.
True
Unfortunately, I just didn’t have time to go as deep as I would have liked. This analysis just gave me a quick way to see how Ben compared against other QBs 7 years into their careers. It would be interesting to do the same kind of query on DVOA and/or DYAR, but I don’t even know if FO has that capability on their website. I’d love to see it, though. That would give comparisons based on in game situations.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 30, 2011 3:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good idea, I am gonna run with that
"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Aug 31, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions

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