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Pittsburgh Steelers Win Preseason Finale Over Carolina Panthers, Final Roster Spot Decisions Only Made Murkier Thursday Night

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The Pittsburgh Steelers finished off their 2011 preseason schedule with a 33-17 win over the Carolina Panthers on Thursday night. It's late and I've had a long week, so I'm not going to bother with recapping the game here. There are game recaps, newspaper articles, fanposts, and perhaps even other writers' posts here on BTSC this morning that can fill you in on the details.

As you'll see shortly, this post doesn't touch on the offense for the simple fact that you'll find a link to a fairly long piece I wrote about the offense and my projections for the 53-man roster on that side of the ball on SB Nation Pittsburgh. I'll synthesize it all prior to Saturday afternoon's deadline, or shortly thereafter once we know who Mike Tomlin has chosen to chase Super Bowl glory with. But for now, here's a few thoughts and talking points to get us started. Happy Friday. 

  • Nobody got injured. The starters, per fourth preseason game tradition, played sparingly, if at all. Obviously they stayed out of harm's way. But though not as important in the grand scheme of things when looking ahead to the regular season, it was equally agreeable to see no reserves go down either, regardless of how big or little their chances are at making the team or practice squad. 
  • Nobody played their way out of a roster spot. Frankly though, several guys made Mike Tomlin and Kevin Colbert's job that much more difficult. And for different reasons. It's been well discussed that the final cuts at cornerback will be the toughest that Tomlin must make. Curtis Brown and Crezdon Butler both got beat, with Butler's allowing a 41-yard score. Cortez Allen, meanwhile, suited up for the first time this preseason and held his own. It's hard to put too much stock into any tipped passes or other sound plays because of the watered down talent level he was competing against. Bottom line though is that Tomlin and Colbert have tougher choices than merely taking the best talent available. Game theory is in play here, something Homer J. (Mike Silverstein) alluded to in his preview post about this preseason finale. There's 31 other teams waiting to see who loses out in the numbers game, eager to snatch up the next James Harrison potentially that just may not be quite ready to occupy a roster spot on a Super Bowl contender like the 2011 Steelers. 
  • The only guy I think might be able to be stashed away is Donovan Warren. But the more I see him play and think about the situation, I wonder if Warren might actually make the team. I at least hope he does, for reasons I'll elaborate on in greater detail on Friday. (Hopefully he's still on the team before I finish doing so.) In a nutshell though, why not part ways with either Keenan Lewis (25 years old) or Crezdon Butler (24 years old) over the 22-year old Warren who appears to be more durable than Lewis and more naturally instinctive than Butler. Probably won't happen, I know. But he's sure looked good. I suppose the Steelers could activate him were a team to try to come and scoop him from our PS. By the way, if you're curious why I didn't mention William Gay, well, as much as it might pain you to accept, being that Gay is playing under a modest one-year deal, there's very little chance that he's cut. He's dirt cheap and we're going to be SB contenders. We know we can get to The Promised Land with Gay; it might be harder than it perhaps would be if we had better talent at his position. But we just don't know yet enough about the other options at nickel back to risk going blindly into a SB year with entirely unproven talent. He'll be gone next year, believe that. But he should be around this year, hopefully just forced to share time with any number of young guys that are being groomed to be his successor. 
  • With his 52 yard field goal, Shaun Suisham not only locked down the starting kicker duties, but also probably bought himself an extra two weeks of goodwill were he struggling for, say, a two-week stretch at some point. On a similar note, Swayze Waters earned himself a spot in Kevin Colbert's Rolodex with his 53-yard field goal in the fourth quarter. Good work by both of them.
  • Were the National Football League a true meritocracy, Jason Kapinos would be the starting punter of the Steelers in 2011. He beat out Daniel Sepulveda Thursday night with his two 60-plus yard punts. Kapinos did not become Shane Lechler over the summer, but he's punted the ball as well as Robo Punter and obviously carries far less drastic injury concerns. But Sepulveda is a former fourth rounder with significant money already invested in him. There's plenty other Kapinos's out there to bring in in the event of another emergency. 
  • I intend to write more about my 53-man roster projections on the defensive side of the ball, but the primary reason why you haven't seen me write much about the offense and who I think earns one of the precious 53 roster spots on that side of the ball is because I just finished writing a 1000-plus word feature on SB Nation Pittsburgh. 

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Great writeup as usual Michael

That coaching staff have an unbelieveable job ahead of them. So much talent and so little room. Lets hope they make the right choices but history proves they will.

"It's a dog eat dog world and I'm wear'in milkbone underwear" - Norm

by Tx_STEELER on Sep 2, 2011 7:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Are you crazy?

I can’t believe you would even suggest getting rid of one of those DBs and keep Warren…I see Keenan Lewis as a comer and it’s time and you don’t let go Brown, Butler or Allen.

by ColinP on Sep 2, 2011 7:22 AM EDT reply actions  

call me crazy if you want

But I don’t think Lewis is any better than Warren. So if that makes me crazy, then okay.

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Michael Bean on Sep 2, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Money invested?
Kapinos did not become Shane Lechler over the summer, but he’s punted the ball as well as Robo Punter and obviously carries far less drastic injury concerns. But Sepulveda is a former fourth rounder with significant money already invested in him.

A punters salary is not an investment. He’s on a one year deal so there’s no cap hit.

by Steely McSmash on Sep 2, 2011 7:25 AM EDT reply actions  

Partially true...

While it’s true cutting Sepulveda wouldn’t cause a long term cap hit, that’s not the full scope of his investment. Colbert and company took a lot of abuse for using a 4th round pick on a punter. Then they paid him several million dollars over the past few years to make him a part of this roster, only to see him repeatedly land on IR. So I think the investment he’s talking about is both reputational and past salary-wise- and for a punter, those investments have been significant. All other things being equal (and performance wise they appear to be), that kind of investment can save your roster spot.

by Iamroosh on Sep 2, 2011 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

It’s more of a time investment than a financial one. They’ve spent several months rehabbing his knee and training him to punt in the NFL.

All things being equal, they would keep Sepulveda. That’s IF all things are equal. I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave Sepulveda the boot (pun intended), but either way, both guys are going to be punting in the NFL this year.

by Neal Coolong on Sep 2, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

See you Sepulveda

It is called cutting your losses. At some point the Steelers have to admit that drafting Sepulveda was a mistake and that every year he will be an injury risk.

 Kapinos has proven to be Sepulveda’s equal as a punter with less injury risk. The Steelers do not need to be scrambling for a replacement punter in mid-season again if Sepulveda’s ACL blows out a 4th time.

I thank Mr. Sepulveda for his contributions to the Steelers but I hope the front office and coaching staff realize that it is time to move on.

by Ziggy's Hood on Sep 2, 2011 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

sunk cost

the time and effort and money they’ve spent should not affect the decision whether to keep him. It often does, but it shouldn’t.

At this point it should be future performance for the (future) money.

by stylepoints on Sep 2, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Donovan Warren

I have argued vehemently the thought of cutting Cortez in account to keep Warren. However, I’ll admit he played SOLID last night. He didnt do anything SPECTACULAR, no splash plays. But he didnt give up the long ball, and he was actually really really good in the red zone. He looks pretty comfortable in ZONE coverage.

Sure he’ll probably only amount to our next Deshea Townsend at best, but hey maybe that isnt a bad thing.

Stay thirsty my friends.

by SteelerMessican on Sep 2, 2011 7:43 AM EDT reply actions  

On the other side

of the argument it was good to see Allen’s potential finally and I hope he makes the roster. But I still want Warren to make it to the 53 also

People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee

by stillergorillar on Sep 2, 2011 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tough to keep both. Wouldn’t mind seeing Gay cut in favor of Warren/Allen. I really doubt that happens though.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter

by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta Agree with you John

Gay seemed to have a bullseye painted on him last year. Whenever a team wanted to complete a critical pass – they threw it to Gay’s area if he was in the game.

by Allen F on Sep 2, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Even Cam knew it

thats embarrassing

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Sep 2, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

to bad Douchemenzhada is terrible in the clutch

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
CM PUNK IS MY HERO
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Sep 2, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was going to say

If Donovan Warren can become the next Deshea, I’ll be one happy fan.

by Simonsen on Sep 2, 2011 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Donovan Warren can be the next Deshea Townsend that would be awesome. Deshea was solid and it was more toward the end of his career that he has major problems.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter

by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

he could still make some plays for you as a nickle corner though

just ask Tony Choko

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
CM PUNK IS MY HERO
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Sep 2, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

OUCH!

“only amount to our next Deshea Townsend at best”? Sure, when Deshea and the Steelers finally parted ways he had one foot in the grave already, but if any other cornerback on the team not named Ike could “Only” amount to Deshea Townsend, the Steelers would be SB favorites.

I think I now what you’re trying to say, his ceiling is that of a good NFL CB, a marginal #1 a very good #2. Still think that’s a stretch, but good luck to the group the Steelers keep.

by steelerwheeler on Sep 2, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jeremy Kapinos...

Not sure who this Jason Kapinos person is you speak of… can he play nickel corner so we can cut Gay? :D

by Iamroosh on Sep 2, 2011 8:15 AM EDT reply actions  

We should really consider keeping Kapinos

I don’t believe the Steelers have ever won a Superbowl with a roster devoid of Nittany Lions.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Sep 2, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

didn't Legs play at Penn St.

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
CM PUNK IS MY HERO
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Sep 2, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds like a PSU name

but I am pretty sure he went to Marshall.

"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."

-- so says Rex Ryan.

by sctx109 on Sep 2, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I forgot about that school down in Huntington

it’s easy to do

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
CM PUNK IS MY HERO
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Sep 2, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

randy moss went down there and they had a movie about the team how can you not remember that school down in huntington?

by klompus on Sep 2, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Guessing because they are a rival…

"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."

-- so says Rex Ryan.

by sctx109 on Sep 2, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

"rival"

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
CM PUNK IS MY HERO
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Sep 2, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

im really hoping they cut gay, stash cortez, and keep warren

im still convinced allens potential alone isnt enough for another team to invest a spot on the 53 for him. keep in mind most teams are concerned with keeping as many of their own players as possible. i still dont see why everyone wants to keep gay. sure he has experience, but its not as if he’s a solid guy who rarely slips up. he’s possibly one of the most erratic defensive players we have.

by hasay on Sep 2, 2011 8:20 AM EDT reply actions  

Being an experienced screw up still makes you a screw up, doesn't it??

Cut Gay. Please. At this point I’ll take youth and potential over proven failure

by Iamroosh on Sep 2, 2011 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think Gay’s camp/preseason performance was enough for him to be advised to look over his shoulder; his nickel job isn’t as secure as he may like. But cutting him not only forces a young player with basically zero experience into the nickel role, it means the fourth and fifth CBs have no experience either. Both starting CBs missed most of the preseason with injuries. Depth is important, and quality depth is highlighted by experience.

It’s not just on the field, either. It’s about preparation, the “right” film study, mental reps, etc. Having several guys who haven’t done that in a starting role is a lot riskier, in my opinion, than the value of keeping a young, potential guy in there.

I know people tend to want to choose the devil they don’t know (Butler, Allen, Brown) over the devil they do know, but they can’t let go of a veteran for a rookie in the secondary. I’ve said this before, William Gay is not the next coming of Champ Bailey, but he knows the defense and the secondary knows what they’re going to get out of him. You’ve got to keep him.

I think they’ll try to get Warren on the PS – he doesn’t have great speed and in my opinion, he’s best suited for the Steelers kind of defense. The Jets cut him twice too, and his godfather was/is a coach there, so it’s not as if there’s 100 percent certainty he’ll get picked up. From another team’s perspective, did he go enough to make their 53 man roster? That’s the question.

Dunno…I guess I can see Warren going either way, but I’d be surprised if Gay gets cut.

by Neal Coolong on Sep 2, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Neal, all good points,

and here’s one more. The Steelers are less likely to keep a “potential” guy because they are feeling Super Bowl. Gay’s been there. He belongs on this squad.

My heros have always been Steelers...

by wozzle on Sep 2, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Your 20 words are much better than my 300! That’s really it, this is a Super Bowl contender. Maybe the Panthers keep a guy like Warren over Gay, but not a team that will play a lot more than 16 games this season.

by Neal Coolong on Sep 2, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gay's been there..

and failed at that.

Seriously – how you play is who you are! Gay sucked last year, he’s sucked this preseason, and if we keep him he’ll suck every time he wears a helmet. I don’t understand the logic that he’s making the team because he’s got experience. He earned his roster spot his rookie year by outplaying mediocre competition at CB that preseason, and in my opinion he’s lost his spot by being out played during this preseason.

Out of all the potential CB’s we could cut, Gay would be the least likely to be scooped up by another team. Anybody who plays against us has a simple game plan – if you throw it then first find out where he is and throw it at Gay. Not the kind of resume that other teams will be eager to clear a roster spot for.

Another one that in my mind has no guarantees would be McFadden. Yes I know he’s hurt, but he was also hurt all of last year (or wasn’t that the excuse for his poor play?). On the rare occasion he’s at 100% he’s a serviceable CB, but he’s a liability when injured. Now he’s dinged up yet again, so I’m wondering why he’s a shoe in to make the squad when Lewis could possibly take the #2 spot. If we cut Allen then we know we’ll have to draft another CB next year. If we keep the youth there’s a chance we are already set. I don’t want us cutting a potentially good future for a known commodity that just doesn’t cut it at CB.

by lkwdsteel on Sep 2, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

It would be a really poor move

To take your #2 and #3 CB and just cut them after you went to the SB with them. The Steelers think they can return to and win the SB this year. You don’t do that by cutting proven veterans for potential talent. Whether you like it or not, BMac is good when he is healthy. He makes plays, honors the zone, and doesn’t give up big plays. William Gay is serviceable on the inside. He isn’t great, but he is not awful. He does get beat here and there, but we know that he can handle coverage against most #3 WRs.

The only thing we know about Keenan Lewis, Crezdon Butler, and Curtis Brown is that they did good in preseason (and they were not even perfect themselves). They did good against some NFL starters, but more often against backup players fighting for a roster spot like them. And again, they were not completely shutting down those backups.

Cutting two guys you know that can play for three guys you hope can play is not the way you put together a winning team. The Steelers have over the years showed they have a preference for keeping known veterans over unknown potential. And that has worked out pretty well for them. I’d be shocked if it changed this year.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter

by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just because you make that statement, doesn’t make it true.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter

by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Might not want to insult someone has the ability to ban you

Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...

by StoneColdSteel on Sep 2, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh Please

Please don’t ban me. Please ,please ,please.

Hows about you shut the hell up too.threaten me with a ban? Get a life, who gives a shit?

by biggcat on Sep 2, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you dont care if you post here or not?

Then why exactly are you here?

Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...

by StoneColdSteel on Sep 2, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

ignore

the biggcat negative nancy, I have never heard anything but crap like they posted above outa them.

People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee

by stillergorillar on Sep 2, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

How did he insult your opinion? You certainly made the statement as if it was a fact rather than an opinion. I personally don’t agree with your opinion. Did I just insult you as well?

by worldtrip on Sep 2, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Piss off

Short and to the point.

Nobody was talking to you.

As I recal, you were a total douche last season too. If you wanna go further, lets get together.

by biggcat on Sep 2, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes you were every bit as confrontational last year as well. If someone disagrees with you, you get defensive, angry, and, well, exactly how you are being right now. What is your problem exactly?

by worldtrip on Sep 2, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

A little testy, are we?

I’m just saying if you are going to make a snide comment at least back it up with something. I put in an in depth explanation and you just make some childish one liner.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter

by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

So

Every opinion must come with 1000 words of garbled jargon to be considered worthy?

If you don’t like it then just keep moving, no reason to talk down to me. You were an ass last saeson too so I should have expected as much. Just because you type a pile of non sense doesn’t make your opinion more valid.

OOOoooohh Ban me!!!!

by biggcat on Sep 2, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes

“OOOoooohh Ban me!!!!”

After seeing your attitude I think there are worse options.

"Canada is a great country, one of the hopes of the world. We can be a better one – a country of greater equality, justice, and opportunity." Jack Layton (R.I.P.)

"My city's still breathing (but barely it's true) through buildings gone missing like teeth. The sidewalks are watching me think about you, all sparkled with broken glass. I'm back with scars to show. Back with the streets I know. They never take me anywhere but here. " John K Samson (Left and Leaving)

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Sep 2, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are we sure he isnt just a troll?

Sounds like that “Who Dey” guy that used to post here and leave stupid comments all the time.

Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...

by StoneColdSteel on Sep 2, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

quite probably

"Canada is a great country, one of the hopes of the world. We can be a better one – a country of greater equality, justice, and opportunity." Jack Layton (R.I.P.)

"My city's still breathing (but barely it's true) through buildings gone missing like teeth. The sidewalks are watching me think about you, all sparkled with broken glass. I'm back with scars to show. Back with the streets I know. They never take me anywhere but here. " John K Samson (Left and Leaving)

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Sep 2, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

you can win by cutting the suck factor out of your veterans

and Gay is the very definition of the suck factor.

Ok let’s keep him and cut say C. Allen who will get picked up. We can again watch Gay pad every QB’s stats and make them look like Unitas and then we can all have a confab over why we should use our #1 next year on a CB because our CB’s suck. Meanwhile we can watch Allen potentially become a very good player for another team – I’m not saying he definitely will, I’m just saying that Gay definitely won’t become a very good player ever.

by lkwdsteel on Sep 2, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think he sucks. He’s not great, but he has shown the ability to make plays here and there. If Gay makes every QB look like Unitas out there, then why was our defense ranked 2nd in passer rating against? Why didn’t they just constantly throw at Gay and have passer ratings above 100? It doesn’t add up.

Like I have said before, Cortez Allen is still a big question mark. He is a project player that was a fringe 4th round pick. I’d be shocked if a team picked him up for their 53 knowing he probably wouldn’t be able to contribute for at least 8 weeks and probably more.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter

by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

don't try to put out my anger towards Gay this morning

my damned coffee maker is broken, and Gay is the target I want to vent my anger on. LOL

I’ll concede he’s not the worst in the league, but I do think he’s the worst we have regularly on the field. Since we always pick low in the draft (thankfully) there are few options for upgrading the weakness at CB except to have some faith in the young guys.

by lkwdsteel on Sep 2, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

To be honest, I wouldn’t mind if we cut Gay. If the coaches do, that means they are comfortable with Butler or Lewis filling in. I would be very pleased with that. I’m just making the point that if they keep Gay its not the end of the world.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter

by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gay needs to step up or pack his bags.

The guy still shows a few, small flashes of potential, but he needs to take the next step. Trouble is, I don’t think he has what it takes.

by Billy52 on Sep 2, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

and I'm not saying we SHOULD cut BMac

but I don’t see why doing that move is not in the conversation. The guy hasn’t had it since 2008. 1 bad year is a fluke, 2 bad years is a trend, if he doesn’t step it up this year then that is just who he is – a not very good CB.

by lkwdsteel on Sep 2, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not in the conversation because BMac is damn good in our scheme

As you know, we play the zone blitz. Our scheme is set up to keep the WR in front of you and prevent the big play. That means the CBs give up a cushion to make it almost impossible for a WR to get behind the defense. The scheme gives up short routes, but it recognizes that no QB is perfect and won’t make a mistake on an 80 yard drive.

I always use the comparison of Darelle Revis to BMac when I try to explain this. They are polar opposites in their scheme. Revis plays mostly man coverage and BMac plays in a zone. When you look at the surface of their numbers that much is apparent; Revis has an elite comp% of 38.6 and BMac’s is a below average 69.7. Clearly, Revis is better as a cover corner. However, there is more to it than that. What about yards per completion and even more important yards after the catch per reception? Revis gives up 16.8 Y/R and 6 YAC/R. Compare that to BMac’s 10.7 Y/R and 2.6 YAC/R. IMO this shows how good BMac is in the zone. He does give up a lot of receptions but he is an elite tackler and keeps his man in front of him. He does not give up a lot of yards, which is ideal for what we ask.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter

by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

You almost become spoiled by how rarely B-Mac misses a tackle.

"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."

-- so says Rex Ryan.

by sctx109 on Sep 2, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lewis was doing good at the same time Gay wasn't - same competitition.

I look at it this way since the NFL is a form of entertainment. If I go to a movie and see someone horrible like Richard Gere sucking on the screen, then I know the next time I go to a movie I’m more willing to take a chance on an unknown actor than ever seeing another horrible Richard Gere film. He is who he is – a crap actor who makes me want to punch his teeth.

Gay to me is the Richard Gere on the Steelers. I know he’s going to get picked on. You know he’s going to get picked on. Hell any junior high football coach knows that he’s the weakest link in the secondary. I see no benefit of keeping suck because we’re afraid the next guy up might suck worse.

by lkwdsteel on Sep 2, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I still disagree with you about Gay

But punching Richard Gere in the teeth does make me laugh.

by Weirtonite on Sep 2, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember Gay making some impressive goal line plays against the Ravens first matchup last year.

by klompus on Sep 2, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

hey

that doesn’t support their argument, dont bring that stuff up

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Sep 2, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember that too

then the rest of the season happened and well…

I’ll give him this – he’s the #1 CB in the league in tackling the receiver AFTER he’s gotten a first down or touchdown. He’s also right up there in making a tackle shortly after the announcers make a statement starting with “ finds <Gay’s receivers name> wide open in the Steelers secondary”

He and Mcfadden really should have been great at tackling last year, they get quite a bit of practice at it.

by lkwdsteel on Sep 2, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

All of the rookie wunderkind CBs everyone loves more than Gay, will, if I was a betting man, get burned more than Gay when the season starts up. Excepting Lewis.

by klompus on Sep 2, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yea

C. Allen and C. Brown are not ready for prime time. C. Bulter might be ready for that nickel position, I think he’ll have it before the end of the year. Lewis is ready too but he is an outside guy, doubt we’ll see him in the nickel.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Sep 2, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good points Michael.

We know that we’re bound to lose a few good young players. At least a couple of these guys will probably catch on with other teams and have decent NFL careers, but that’s simply a fact of life in this league. But I think when a head coach keeps playing a young DB during the preseason, as Tomlin did with Donovan Warren over the past month, it indicates that he likes what he’s seeing. So I agree with your take on #30.

by Billy52 on Sep 2, 2011 8:36 AM EDT reply actions  

How did Trai Essex play at the C position?

"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).

by Han on Sep 2, 2011 8:54 AM EDT reply actions  

I heard Essucks actually played fairly well. But, the Panthers don’t have the best DL in the world.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Listening to the commentators

last night, they said half a dozen times at least how deep and talented the Steelers are. That said, I do not envy the task ahead for Tomlin and Colbert.

by Larrybob8187 on Sep 2, 2011 9:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Definitely a good problem to have. The thing we should all keep in mind is you get these kinds of good problems when you consistently focus on drafting well, and developing younger players. The core group is in place, and this preseason – and the last few – was about developing the younger guys. We’re stockpiling talent, especially when you get guys like Antonio Brown in the 6th round, and have great tryouts from undrafted guys like Donovan Warren.

The cut down to 53 won’t make or break this team, in my opinion, and yeah, there are going to be a few guys who will get released and catch on somewhere else. All that means is the guy we kept over him was determined to be a better player, a decision made by the same personnel group that has loaded this team past capacity with talent in the first place.

I trust their judgement. Super excited they find themselves in this spot though. Only good things can come from it.

by Neal Coolong on Sep 2, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't want Tomlin's/Colbert's jobs to be easy.

I like it murky, especially when we’re deciding who’s the best, rather than who’s the least bad.

My heros have always been Steelers...

by wozzle on Sep 2, 2011 9:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Just finished your 53-man prediction for the offense

I personally want Lyons to make it over Battle, because I’d rather lose a bit on special teams to possibly gain more with Lyons, but I wouldn’t be heartbroken if he is cut. He should be swooped up by another team though, he proved enough this preseason to be on a roster (though I’ve been disagreed with for similar statements at other position, so who knows).

Other than that, I completely agree with your analysis. I think Cotchery and Saunders will make our team more dangerous and deeper offensively, and if people remain healthy, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a top-10 offense.

by Michael Uhlhorn on Sep 2, 2011 9:25 AM EDT reply actions  

Battle

Because of the infrequent KO returns this year, Battle’s importance as a ST player could be lessened. I like having that 6’8" guy (Lyons) as an option in the Red Zone. Also maybe he could play some ST to keep his instincts sharp.

by Allen F on Sep 2, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lyons

Was that a fantastic catch or what?

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Sep 2, 2011 3:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

That is my line of thinking too

I just am not sure that it will happen. I think Lyons could make it to PS, and the Steelers may not want to lose Battle. I trust in the FO though.

by Michael Uhlhorn on Sep 2, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tomlin and Colbert earn their salaries today....

There are half a dozen guys – at least – who have earned a spot on the roster with their performances at camp and in the games -- but there’s no room for them on the 53. And if they cut them, other teams will claim most of them before they make it to the practice squad.

The rub here is whether to lose those guys or hold on to veterans who have been on Super Bowl teams and add to the Steelers experience advantage in this post-lockout year: guys like Sepulveda, Gay, Hoke, Battle, McFadden.

I’d opt for Kapinos and a couple of the kids, but absolutely trust Tomlin and Colbert. Nobody’s better than these guys in player evaluation and preparation. That said, it’s a crap shoot.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Sep 2, 2011 9:29 AM EDT reply actions  

+1

and I am not jealous of them for their jobs right now.

"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin

by MDSTEELERSFAN on Sep 2, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am

the pay bump is worth it. lol My wife will understand.

I love the Steelers.

by tannofsteel84 on Sep 2, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only disagree with Kapinos

Even if Danny gets hurt and Kapinos is signed elsewhere, there will be plenty of serviceable Punters available. I would rather go with someone like Danny in hopes he can live up to his draft pick.

by Michael Uhlhorn on Sep 2, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

And, I would have to watch again, since I had to watch the Panthers feed, but distance is not the only factor. Hang time and, directly correlated with that, net return yards are also significant, and Sepulveda has the superior hang time.

"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."

-- so says Rex Ryan.

by sctx109 on Sep 2, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

At the Redskins game

During warmups Kapinos couldn’t hit them with any direction and he never once landed one inside the 10 without them going to the endzone. Sepulveda couldn’t have performed better. I know this was a while ago, but I still think that Danny is the better player given my personal viewing.

by Michael Uhlhorn on Sep 2, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then, we are in complete agreement.

"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."

-- so says Rex Ryan.

by sctx109 on Sep 2, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

i dont understand why thats so important

if he isnt the best punter on the team, why keep him? because colbert would sacrifice better performance so he doesnt have that blemish on his draft record? seems silly to me

by hasay on Sep 2, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he is the better punter

They are at least equal. But while I agree it might seem silly, I think these factor into the decision when you have two equal candidates.

by Michael Uhlhorn on Sep 2, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just because the tie goes to Sepulveda...

does not mean that Colbert is trying to save face. There is a reason Sepulveda was drafted in the 4th (as a punter) and why Kapinos was not. Kapinos is a solid punter, but Sepulveda is the superior athlete and has more potential. And yes, punters can also have higher ceilings. Plus, neither of his ACL surgeries have been on his kicking leg.

"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."

-- so says Rex Ryan.

by sctx109 on Sep 2, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ego has nothing to do with it. These guys canned Madison, then realized they had screwed up....

…and brought him back. The special teams had gone straight to hell without him, and stabilized when they re-signed him.

The beauty of working in the Rooney Organization is that you don’t have to watch your back every second and you are allowed to make the occasional mistake. That means you can admit your mistakes by changing course.

If they think Kapinos is the better choice, or if they believe he gives them a better bang for the buck, they’ll go with him. No one will be sent to Mr Rooney’s office for a lecture or a paddling.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Sep 2, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we agree with each other

I was trying to say that, if there was any sort of ‘tie goes to Sepulveda’, it would be for the above reasons, and not for ego

"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."

-- so says Rex Ryan.

by sctx109 on Sep 2, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

We do agree.

It’s just that many owners micro-manage and second-guess, and GM’s and Coaches spend too much time covering their asses. They’re afraid to admit they might have made a mistake for fear the Dan Snyders of this world will be all over them.

We do things differently in Pittsburgh, and the Sepulveda-Kapinos decision will be based on merit, rather than CYA or ego. And we agree on that.

I don’t know how much Robopunter signed for, and how much less Kapinos would get. If the amount is substantial, I think the tie might go to Kapinos, to help free up cap money for free agent flexibility. But if it’s not a substantial difference, then I agree the tie goes to the veteran who is a superior tackler.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Sep 2, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're all Pessimists

We don’t need no Stinkin’ Punter!

by steelerwheeler on Sep 2, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Theismann did it for the Redskins

Ben should be able to cover that duty!

"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin

by MDSTEELERSFAN on Sep 2, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

He'll probably hold the ball too long

Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...

by StoneColdSteel on Sep 2, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

So glad to see my boy, Sanders, back in action

That just rounds out our silly WR core. That gives us 3 guys who can run at or around a 4.4 and then 2 really good possession guys. If the passing game doesn’t get it done this year I will be shocked. It should open things up for the running game too. I can’t ever remember being this excited about our offense.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 9:45 AM EDT reply actions  

Agreed - with the exception of the O line

We are CRAZY deep on offense for the first time I can remember – I only wish that Batch was available too. But he can help us next year, this year is going to be exciting.

"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin

by MDSTEELERSFAN on Sep 2, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I actually like the OL more than previous years. I think Scott/Kemo/Pouncey/Legs/Colon is solid. Also, Gilbert has shown flashes that he can ball and Tony Hills is a competent back up at G or T. I’m still not sold on Foster or Essex though.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

I actually like the offensive line better than in year’s past as well… And I am okay with Foster and Essex as backups, they both have starting experience and can hold the fort if someone gets injured until Gilbert gets a few more reps and Hills gets used to playing guard. They won’t be elite, but I don’t think they will be horrible this year.

by Simonsen on Sep 2, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wish I could see Gilbert put Scott on the bench. I hate him!

by klompus on Sep 2, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

I won’t be surprised if we’re talking about how good the OL is as the season unfolds.

by Billy52 on Sep 2, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

And PLEASE let's not forget Heath

He is definitely one of the best TE’s in the NFL. Johnson showed that he can catch when thrown to. And am hoping that Saunders can be a second coming of Heath.

by Allen F on Sep 2, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I want swayze over suisham

only because another swayze proved that you can solve all your problems in life by kicking them…ok…maybe that’s not solid roster shaping logic…oh well

by FrankWyt on Sep 2, 2011 10:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Nice Fuzzy logic Frank

"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin

by MDSTEELERSFAN on Sep 2, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Suisham

I am always a little nervous about Suisham. I watched him fail miserably while with the Redskins. But I have to admit he has come a long way and I am feeling more confident in him. Swayze has a strong leg, but am not convinced that he can be as accurate on FG’s over a long stretch.

by Allen F on Sep 2, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

lets keep both kickers

 anf refer to them as swayze suisham

57-105 come on "sale the team"

by sweetleb on Sep 2, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Solid points all around

If Mike Tomlin and co. have shown anything, it is that one of their most sought-after characteristics is consistency. Sometimes it takes a game like yesterday to realize how solid the Steelers are on fundamentals, especially tackling. I saw quite a few deep-depth-chart cornerbacks and linebackers miss tackles that went for big gains… leaving me to take a mental note that they are probably gone.

As far as Gay, I would love to see one of the young guys, at this stage, most likely Keenan Lewis, push B-Mac to the nickel and then Gay to the dime. Reasonably, that would only take place four or five weeks down the road after Lewis shows the aptitude to play well when the lights are on. Otherwise, consistency and stability remain key to the Steelers.

I like Warren, but I do not see him causing Allen to be cut. Something in the quote from Tomlin that it would be ‘unfortunate’ if either Harvey or Allen could not go. Sounded to me as though they would need to show something to validate any faith rewarded. Allen looked solid, Harvey did not. And Allen seems able to break on the ball fairly well, which I have not seen Warren do too well.

I also was rather disappointed in Will Allen- missed tackles left and right. I think Bouchette mentioned a few weeks back the possibility of moving Butler to safety and cutting Allen. Have not seen anything recently about it though it would open up a spot for an extra CB/S.

By the way, Steve McClendon looks every bit of a stud, and I can not see anyway that he does not make the 53. Too young, too dynamic. Combine him with Hood and Heyward, and you have the makings of a pretty speedy front-three to use in passing and/or no-huddle situations to give the others a break.

Finally, I am perplexed where all the love for Kapinos comes from. Good punter, nothing more, nothing less. And he may have outplayed Sepulveda last night, but he certainly has not in the other three games. I did see one poor punt by Sepulveda last night, but then again, it is tough to tell what Everest asked him to do. He very well could have asked for a huge hang-time, directional punt to cause a bit of nervousness in the returner. Advantage in situational punting= Sepulveda. Advantage in hang-time and overall leg =Sepulveda. And, probably a difficult position to support, but I would hesitate to over-use the ‘durability’ slight. It seems partially something that can be fixed by being more judicious with the amount of contact he seeks, something that he seems to already be working on.

"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."

-- so says Rex Ryan.

by sctx109 on Sep 2, 2011 10:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Datruth's Final 53 ...

3 QBs – Ben, Batch, Dixon

4 RBs – Mendy, Redman, Memo, Dwyer

3 TEs – Heath, D. Johnson, W. Saunders

5 WRs – Ward, Fast money (M. Wallace), All About da money (A. Brown), Easy Money (E. Saunders, Jerricho Cotchery

9 OLs – J. Scott, Big Juicy, Pouncey, Bronco Legursky, W. Colon, M. Gilbert, T. Essex, R. Foster, T. Hills

6 DL – A. Smith, Keisel, Big Snack, Z. Hood, Cam Heyward, S. McClendon

9 LBs – Deebo, Farrior, Timmons, Woodley, Worilds, Foote, Sly Sylvester, C. Carter, M. Ivy

11 DBs – Ike, BMac, W. Gay (praying 4 D. Warren instead of Gay but … ), K. Lewis, C. Butler, C. Brown, C. Allen, Troy P., Clark, W. Allen, R. Mundy

3 STs – Suisham, Sepulvada, G. Warren

That’s all Folks.

by datruth4life2.0 on Sep 2, 2011 10:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Almost completely agree

I think Battle might have played himself onto the roster in the last couple games. Pretty solid job all around. Strong call on McClendon over Hoke… maybe they find a way to keep both by cutting Will Allen or someone else.

Agreed on Saunders- his blocking has come on in leaps and bounds. The only other difficult call would be Chris Carter, given his inactivity the last couple games. Maybe Baraka Atkins sneaks on there, but all in all, I would be happy with that roster.

"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."

-- so says Rex Ryan.

by sctx109 on Sep 2, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can't argue with that list

and I’m with you on your prayers regarding Gay being replaced.

by lkwdsteel on Sep 2, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

So you didn’t end up keeping 4 STers? Haha

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol

love the nicknames for our young receivers

by blitzzburgh on Sep 2, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

hmmm

I am not sold on W Allen making the 53 nor Ivy. I think Battle makes it and Warren.

"Canada is a great country, one of the hopes of the world. We can be a better one – a country of greater equality, justice, and opportunity." Jack Layton (R.I.P.)

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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Sep 2, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heard Ivy was just released

Same with Swayze

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get the love for Tony Hills..

Why do people think he deserves a roster spot? I don’t think we need to give Hills a spot of all ppl.. He plays too high!! both at guard and at tackle. hes just not good! its been a couple of years now and he still hasn’t learned that he can’t be a starter by playing with the leverage that he does. I don’t want him as a backup.

by rav3nx92 on Sep 2, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

For the 53rd roster spot, do you want ...

DE Corbin Bryant, WR A. Battles, or ILB M. Ivy?

Knowing the Steelers, I think it will be Morty Ivy and they will try to put Bryant on the practice squad. However, if the Steelers had Ziggy, McClendon, Cam Heyward, and Corbin Bryant waiting in the wings on that DL, then everyone can stick it when talking about the age on the DL. That is some serious young talent waiting in the wings.

I just don’t see how S. McClendon doesn’t make this team. I watched Chris Hoke intently last night. Hokie, bless his heart, is a plugger but he could not beat his man one on one last night while McClendon was ‘BALLING’. Gotta start the youth movement somewhere.

CB Donovan Warren to the practice squad. I would definitely keep him over William Gay but most people here think it is better to keep someone who is known to be a liability that teams regularly target rather than someone who is a better player now and will grow into the position the rest of the year and get better the more he plays.

You gotta love Crezdon Butler’s length and athleticism at the position. Young, long and raw, and Tomlin and LeBeau can mold him into what they want him to be. The same with CB Curtis Brown and TE Wesley Saunders.

And even Dwyer is starting to pick up the blitz now. One more year, and the kid will be Redman status.

by datruth4life2.0 on Sep 2, 2011 10:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Completely agree on McClendon

As far as the 53rd guy, I think it needs to be Battle just on the numbers. He proved very consistent the last few games.

Definitely with you on Butler. Also not reading too much into the long TD. He was up in press coverage, did not redirect sufficiently, and the WR was faster. Seems like a ‘teachable moment’, especially given the desire to have Butler play more man-to-man around this forum.

I disagree on the Gay characterization, however. He might be inadequate, but from what other players on the roster do you know with certitude how they will play in the playoffs? We have Ike and B-Mac, that is it. Maybe one of the younger guys shows enough throughout the year, but that is not now. It seems, for better or worse, cutting Gay is a moot issue.

"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."

-- so says Rex Ryan.

by sctx109 on Sep 2, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

McClendon

I was and still am an Anthony Gray booster, but I have to admit that McClendon looked very good in pre-season. Wish he was about 10 pounds heavier though. He is much faster than Casey (but who isn’t), he shedded blockers well, and he followed the ball until the whistle blew. I really liked his game. Was also impressed by this kid Bryant. he showed a lot of potential.

by Allen F on Sep 2, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good calls on all three guys.

I tried my hand at picking the roster and when I looked up, I had both McClendon and Bryant on the list, and had both Gray and Hoke crossed off. Really tough call, but with the two young guys in McClendon & Bryant taking advantage (both literally and figuratively (sp?)) of their playing time, I thought they impressed more than Hoke & Gray.

I hope we can PS Gray somehow and give him time to watch and grow more familiar with the system. While I hate to have left off Hoke, I thought the other two really showed up (fumbles, sacks, tackles, etc.) and looked hungrier.

I hate hearing about how old we are, especially on Defense, so the trade off in age also appealed to me. The bigger question is if we carry 7 on the D-line versus the plethora of CB’s – which is an entirely different question.

by dawgs144 on Sep 2, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gray

It really bothered me to see Gray get cut. He is the perfect size for a NT. The guy is built like a tank and was the strongest player on the team. I don’t think that he was well coached in high school and college to play his position. He needs to learn how to shed blockers and to keep driving with the powerful legs that he has. I really liked this kid Drake Nevis (LSU) that the Colts drafted. He keeps his hands and arms moving like a windmill and does not let one man control him. He is in pursuit until the whistle blows. If Gray would learn those skills and was just a little meaner, he could be unstoppable. McClendon showed those skills, but in my opinion, he would be a better DE (the same applies for Bryant). We need a younger (replacement) person with speed and strength at NG. That would give us a solid group of DL and LB backups. I think that Hoke can be expendable. This Defense that we have is going to be awesome this year. Our only weakness is that we need another CB who can play man coverage. We give up entirely too much yardage because we play too soft pass coverage..

by Allen F on Sep 2, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very true on the pass coverage.

But it’s also worth pointing out that our coverage is dependant upon our pass rush. When the pass rush is getting good to great pressure, the coverage doesn’t have to be quite so spot on because the passes are rushed and that throws off the timing of wideouts.
Our weakness is the one-on-one coverage, and if the QB gets the pass off quickly, those are the guys that tend to expose our secondary.
McClendon, I agree with you, would be better suited in our schemes to DE rather than NT. I think part of that is due to how well Casey plays and how big he is. Let’s face it, we’ve been spoiled the last 11 years. Fingers crossed on Gray to the PS…..

by dawgs144 on Sep 2, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you wholeheartedly

And hopefully our pass rush will be as explosive as it is capable of being. I then see opposing QB’s trying quick hitters across the middle. We have enough capable backups for our starting DL & LB’s to go full tilt for as long as they are in there. I think that we are two deep at all positions. A lot will ride on how well Casey can move the opposing Center. He has got to put a lot of pressure on him and move him into the QB. Once (and IF) he successfully accomplishes this, our LBS will be able to record a lot of sacks. Also we can throw in a few safety blitzes into the mix.

by Allen F on Sep 3, 2011 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let's hope the influx of some younger bodied does two things then,

1) Keep our starters fresh by getting some more relief than the past couple of years and
2) Get those young-ass engines into high gear and keep the play at a high level.

by dawgs144 on Sep 4, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like your thinking

We infused some of the young’uns in with the first unit Defense last year and hardly anyone noticed. Am crossing my fingers that we have no significant injuries on the O line. Wish that Dixon could show some promise so that we could throw him into the mix on occasion this year. He would really confuse the defenses if he lines up in a shotgun or as a WR. Would love to see him run the play that Randall ran and threw it to Hines for a TD. Brown ran it on one occasion this pre-season.

by Allen F on Sep 4, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a little ironic.

The FO seems to be doing a damn good job in acquiring young talent to supplement the D-line and LB’s. We seem to have a dearth of mid-talent DB’s and stable safety support. Could use a 1st or 2nd round CB going forward – assuming our young DB’s don’t play out of their minds this season. Point being that all we hear about is how old the D is. Startes maybe. Seems to me there are quite a few youngsters that seem to be ignored.

On O, the RB’s and Wideouts are all young (outside of Hines); Ben is still entering his prime (I think his best is yet to come to be honest). The TE’s are definately young (including Heath). The O-line this year is very young; the caveat is that the young O-line is not quite matching up to the progress that our young D-line guys are making. I was always a firm believer of tossing into the fire to get experience and learn through mistakes, but I will admit that the D getting a year or two to learn seems to get them better prepared than what I’m seeing on the O-line. Hope Coach K gives us another leap forward like last year where all things considered, the O-line was better than I expected.

Looking forward to a great season!

by dawgs144 on Sep 5, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Backups

As I see it, we have 3 positions to cover with future replacement. that is (1) a capable backup for Casey. McClendon seems talented , but I think he is more suited to be a DE in our scheme. I know that people are probably tired of me touting Anthony Gray. But to me, he seemed a natural for the NG position with his physical attributes.. Was he "really* that bad that the FO saw no “promise” in him? (2) a replacement for Troy that he can work with and “school” as to how he plays his position. And finally (3) a capable person to be Ben’s future replacement. I got a lot of “flack” here when I suggested Terrell Pryor could be that person if he were taken and is patient enough to wait (at least 3 or 4 years to graduate to #1 backup) and learn from Ben and Charlie. He would not be thrown into the fire too soon. I am not buying that spiel that he play tight end or WR. I think that his future will be “severely” damaged if he stays with the Raiders. I will let this matter rest for the time being. Dennis Dixon just doesn’t seem to be hungry enough to take control. It would be great for Management to fit him into the Offense on certain situations to keep him sharp. I think that Carnell Lake will whip our DB’s into shape in due time. Oh, and also a backup for Lamarr Woodley at OLB. We have a very deep team and a good mix of veterans and “young’uns”. I will quietly hope that these thoughts will bear fruit. they are just my personal thoughts and Management will be the one who determines what is best for us.

by Allen F on Sep 5, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good points.

I agree about McClendon better as a DE. I thought they would grab the NT of the future this year, but I guess not. And if they let Gray go so early, my guess is they didn’t see enough from him.
Good luck finding another Troy so easily! Instincts like no other. Mundy is pretty good, IMO, but there isn’t another Troy out there right now. Plus, because he and Clark compliment each other so well, doesn’t make sense that they’d have to find a pair of guys that mesh well enough to let one go freely? I don’t know, but it makes sense to me anyway.
Backup to Ben…hhmmmm…he’s only 29 and while he does get hit a lot, I don’t know that we’re quite at the point of needing a long term replacement. Better back-ups? Absolutely. I don’t think Dixon is the answer either. Pryor has a lot of talent, but I have to admit, I’m no fan of his decision making. Let’s circle back in 5 years and see what his maturity level has become. For now, I’ll pass on him.

by dawgs144 on Sep 5, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Troy

I didn’t mean some one to replace him, I meant some one to “sub” for him when he needs a “blow”. And to learn from him. And when he slows down, to eventually replace him. As for Pryor, I definitely agree that he needs to mature. Batch has been a mentor for him and also he is from the Pittsburgh area, so maybe he can have family there to keep him on track. It would be a " big project" that would require a lot of patience from us and from him. I just hope that the Raiders do not “ruin” him by trying to throw him into the fire too soon. Wherever he ends up, I would like to see him be successful. He is young and has a lot of “growing up” to do. We’ve all been there before, but not with the money that is available to these young athletes.

by Allen F on Sep 6, 2011 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kudos on that!

I forgot Batch was mentoring him. Guess we’ll find out, and I hope it goes better than J. Russell!

by dawgs144 on Sep 7, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would leave off Ivy.

I think the choice of Battles vs. Bryant is the harder one. Both DL and WR have had, or do have, questions on durability.
Is Sanders foot ok, or will it linger? Cotchery is a good safety policy, however, Battles I thought played well for much of the preseason.
DL we know there are questions with Mr. Smith, and while Hoke has been terrific in giving Casey a breather, it sure would be nice to have some extra young players – who looked the part – in the mix. Plenty of games last year that had me concerned with the lack of gameday active DL spots (Titans in that heat was one that comes to mind).

by dawgs144 on Sep 2, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dwyer

Our RBs could be scary good, like our WR are now, with the addition of Batch and the maturing of Dwyer. Even Memo has looked good this preseason (from what I saw of him) and we may have a minor dilemma. We can worry about that when we get there though. Things will happen between now and then.

"Canada is a great country, one of the hopes of the world. We can be a better one – a country of greater equality, justice, and opportunity." Jack Layton (R.I.P.)

"My city's still breathing (but barely it's true) through buildings gone missing like teeth. The sidewalks are watching me think about you, all sparkled with broken glass. I'm back with scars to show. Back with the streets I know. They never take me anywhere but here. " John K Samson (Left and Leaving)

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Sep 2, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was at the game

Great seats too. Right in front above of the Steelers tunnel. Also it was 50/50 Steelers/Panthers fans.
Swayze Water looked good today, but he’s not making the cut. He missed a 27-yarder earlier this preseason and that was his doom. Suisham looks fine.
Battle looked good, so did most of the CBs fighting for roster spots. Curtis Brown was not good. I think he’s got to go. Didn’t even turn his head for one big gain throw.
Mostly I’m glad nobody got hurt. Big decisions for coaches coming up.

by plasmasnake on Sep 2, 2011 11:01 AM EDT reply actions  

It was a big play...

but he also saved a touchdown on the play, IIRC. Every CB is going to get burned at some point, it happens. What is important is how they react to the play they just gave up. Did they learn from it and come back stronger, or did they let it get in their head and make them overcautious the next play. I think he learned from it.

Things can always be worse....

by ncmt40 on Sep 2, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's not based on one play

Compared to the other guys I think he’s the most expendable.
Would you rather get rid Gay? Butler?
Somebody’s gotta go, I think it’s him. He hasn’t looked as good comparably imo.

by plasmasnake on Sep 2, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

also it's not that he got buruned

he didn’t even know the ball was coming because he wasn’t aware at all

by plasmasnake on Sep 2, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mr. Bean,

I thought I had enough to think about with the choices, you just made it more difficult! I’m not sure that I agree with Gay making the roster, cheap or not. It looks like Keenan had started to turn the corner (no pun intended) this year, and the famous “potential” of C. Butler makes me want to keep him around longer. I think Warren makes the team, he has been a pleasant surprise. All three, to me, are at least as good as Willie Gay. As far as experience, since we keep reading about how old our D is, shouldn’t we rely on the other vets to keep the younger guys up-to-speed?

Tough choices any way you slice it.

by dawgs144 on Sep 2, 2011 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

At least Cortez is not Gay

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Follow me on twitter. @steelcurtain67

by DwightWhite's Missing Tooth on Sep 2, 2011 12:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm sooo excited about our offense.

Too bad all our talent is directed by the near talentless BA. Arians’ success is a direct result of the talent on the team, not his talent as an oc. Hating on Arians.

Looking forward to the cuts!

by Damnscot on Sep 2, 2011 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

fine

I thought Gilbert looked fine. No major problems. Idk if he should replace Scott yet though

by plasmasnake on Sep 2, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are we sure we're done?

Wouldn’t it make sense to see if we could find a quality OL guy in place of Foster?

I do think Gay will get the ax. If you can’t trust Lewis or Butler at nickel at this point, you need to let one of them go. Frankly, i don’t think it’s asking a cb much to play ten yards off the ball and give up 9 yard passes. I figure lewis or butler can do as well.

by Steelzombie on Sep 2, 2011 2:33 PM EDT reply actions  

well put

"The standard is the standard" - Mike Tomlin

by MDSTEELERSFAN on Sep 2, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok

I have a “friend” who is in Maui right now, and wants to watch the steelers baltimore game. How is that going to happen? Anybody know if there is a way without having to subscribe to the nfl?

He can’t even watch highlights of the carolina game, seeing how there is no football team in Kahalui!!

Any Ideas? Streaming, I guess….

by IronJake on Sep 2, 2011 3:01 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah

He’s already scoped out two, will call to see if they will have the game.

by IronJake on Sep 2, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Steelersdepot reports Mortty Ivy and Swayze Waters are released

how about someone starting an open thread about the roster cuts? :)

by Simonsen on Sep 2, 2011 3:56 PM EDT reply actions  

More cuts coming in

To add to Ivy and Waters, we have Bryant, Harvey, Atkins, C.MCcoy, Warren, Harris, Greenwood, Cromatie-Smith.

Shocked at Warren and Atkins. Looks like Cortez Allen gets a roster spot.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 4:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Hearing Wes Lyons cut too

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

6th round pick Keith Williams cut

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

MarkKaboly_Trib Mark Kaboly
#Steelers cutt Clay, Johnson, Robinson, Lyons, Grisham, McCoy, Miller, Turner, Maloecki, Jolly, Williams

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lefty put on IR

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Sep 2, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can someone please explain why we need a roster spot for LS?

It’s a talent – I get that, but Webster used to do it. Other starting centers have done it in the past. I hate cutting a real player to keep a guy who is only involved in a handful of plays. I find it hard to believe that Pouncey or Legursky couldn’t get the hang of it with a little practice.

by lkwdsteel on Sep 2, 2011 5:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t want Pouncey running down and trying to make tackles on punts. Snapping the ball isn’t the only part of the job

by worldtrip on Sep 2, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  


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