If not Bruce Arians as Offensive Coordinator, Then Who, and Why?
by PaVaSteeler on Jan 18, 2012 9:55 AM EST
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PrintIn his Tuesday "State of the Steelers" address, Steeler President Art Rooney II is reported to have said that: "...a few coaches are considering retirement", but he wouldn't name them.
There aren't many coaches on the Steelers who are near retirement age, and Coach LeBeau has already stated he wants to return. This then, raises the possibility that Arians might be one of the "few", despite reports that he will return. There have been multitudes of posts and comments criticizing Arians, and either calling for his replacement, or his head, or both.
So that begs the question, if not Arians, then who best to direct the Steelers offense, and why?
However, before you hit the send button on your response, please see a few salient points of information about this issue, some from steelers.com, after the jump...
Bruce Arians has been the Offensive Coordinator for the Steelers for five years, following a three year stint as the wide receivers coach. He has 17 years of experience in the NFL, including three years as offensive coordinator for the Cleveland Browns (2001-2003) and three years as quarterback coach for the Indianapolis Colts (1998-2000) where he worked with (then) rookie quarterback Peyton Manning.
Since Arians' ascent to the Offensive Coordinator position in 2007, the Steelers have been to two Super Bowls, winning one.
In 2009, the Arian's directed offense became the first Steeler offensive unit to have a 4,000 yard passer, two 1,000 yard receivers and a 1,000 yard rusher in the same season.
Arians has been instrumental in the drafting of the group of wide receivers known as "Young Money" currently on the Steelers roster, as well as in their ongoing development into a potent force to be reckoned with.
Arians and Ben Roethlisberger have a strong relationship, with little apparent disagreement over the type and style of offense the Steelers should employ.
Thus, there are key factors on the side of keeping Arians that should be factored into your consideration, in addition to the obvious statistics pertaining to the Steelers' offensive rankings during his tenure that can be used against him.
One Request: This poast is not meant to be a "bitchin board" for complaints about Bruce Arians; there have been hundreds of such comments already. This poast is meant to encourage an informative dialogue over who would be the best candidate to direct the Steelers offense, and why. So please, no SHOUTING, name calling or derogatory comments about the subject of this poast, or other people's opinions.
Thus, the question: If not Bruce Arians, then Who, and Why?
P.S. - Shout out to jmiller71 for pulling current list of NFL Offensive Coordinators off of a blacked-out Wiki:
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That the Million dollar question
I was hoping for Todd Haley he a SOB but a good OC
Not sure at the moment.
I was really hoping for Norv Turner to get fired. He’s a crappy head coach, but a pretty solid offensive coordinator. (I know Rivers had a down year, but I really think that was on Rivers/the players more than Turner). I also like his offensive system.
Not to be a homer, but the guy I’d REALLY like is Don Treadwell – he was Michigan State’s offensive coordinator in 2010 and is now the head coach at Miami of Ohio… the guy was awesome. His system would fit our players and he was a GREAT play caller. Always took advantage of his personnel and used their strengths. He was a huge reason why MSU did so well that year and he was the guy they picked to take over for Dantonio for those games after D’s heart attack. Too bad it will never happen.
I was on the Turner Train as well...
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 18, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
As a Miami grad, I'd like Treadwell to stay put...
but since I think the Steelers won’t be picking up somebody else’s carcass, he would be the type of longshot/outside the box pick that I think they might make.
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo (1970)
I can name a few...
1. Russ Grimm. I think Grimm’s stay in Arizona has run its course and he probably realizes that because he has yet to call plays on the NFL level, some NFL teams are hesitant to bring him in as a head coach. I think he could bring toughness back to the Steelers’ offense, something sorely missing this year and parts of last few season….why it would not work: Ben Roethlisberger would never sign off on Grimm because Grimm would tell Ben to shut up. Also, it would be awkward 5 years later for Grimm to work for Tomlin after both were candidates for the head coaching job. Odds: 100-1
2. Todd Haley: Haley has a rep as a SOB but you cannot deny his imagination and timing calling plays on offense. He helped make Steve Breaston a star and helped to revive Kurt Warner’s career. Sure, he found out he is not head coaching material after nearly three years in KC. He also has Pittsburgh roots with his old man working for us during the 1970s. Haley would be like Whisenhunt if Whisenhunt acted like a crazed SOB every once in a while… Why it would not work: Come on, you really see Haley and Ben even talking to each other in a civil manner? I would bet on the pool that Haley would stop talking to Ben by the 4th day of training camp. Odds: 75-1
3. Hue Jackson: he recently got fired and although he showed he is likely not head coaching material either, he has had success as an assistant in Cincy and Oakland with a short stay in Atlanta. Jackson might be a head case but I always thought he was a solid playcaller who got better results than Arians with lesser talent…why it would not work: Jackson is a head case, Big Ben is a head case, you figure it out. Odds: 200-1
4. Randy Fichtner: our current QB coach should be considered for play calling duties and a promotion to OC…why it would not work: Fichtner for all we know could be an Arians clone, a spineless yes-man who enables Big Ben too much. After all, that is the key issue with Arians. I bet if Arians does fall on the sword, then Big Ben will lobby hard for Fichtner to take his place. Odds: 25-1
I have come to the conclusion that why we all really hate Arians is that one, he took away some of the basic things on offense that we in the Steeler Nation have grown accustomed to: running the ball, clock control, and using a fullback. You know, tough football to define a tough working class city.
The real reason why we should hate Arians is that he is a spineless enabler who lets Big Ben get away with anything he wants. In the past, Big Ben’s backyard football and the defense bailed Arians out of trouble and out of the spotlight. This year, it did not work. The next OC must be someone with a backbone who can one, best use ALL of the skill players besides the WRs and two, will have the guts to tell Big Ben to shut up and put him in his place. Essentially Big Ben needs to change his mindset as a football player and actually be willing to be coached.
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.- Mark Twain
by steeler_chris_5 on Jan 18, 2012 10:28 AM EST reply actions
Interesting
I think the responsibility to tell convince BB to change falls on BB and Tomlin – Not the OC. The OC just provides the plays but the HC has final say(or should) on the plays to be called based upon the personnel at the time. Yes – Arians needs to go and we need to stop the nonsense that he puts on the field however none of this matters until our OL improves…. They type of Offense has to match the players… For example… Mike Shanahan in DC. Uses Zone Blocking Scheme not a Trap Blocking scheme… That requires different style of player… So if Arians is going to be let go then they need to do soon so the new OC has time to prepare for the draft and evaluate the current line..
I agree – would of loved Turner. BB would flourish under that system… When was the last Turner Coached Team with out a top 10 Scoring Offense? Its hard to say about Haley… But it may be what BB needs to stay in this league long enough and injury free to win 2 more superbowls
Do you believe that Tomlin, and/or the Rooneys...
…would provide the necessary “or else” to allow the next OC to
tell Big Ben to shut up and put him in his place
or do you think that could lead to locker room dissention? One risk you run is forcing the other Offensive players to have to choose between their coach or their QB; this dilemma would be even worse if its a new OC, and magnitudes worse if its a new OC that doesn’t have a proven track record elsewhere.
Food for thought.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Jan 18, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
As long a new OC isn’t a complete jerk about it, I would expect Ben to work with them as a professional. From all that we read about the team and staff, locker room dissension shouldn’t be an issue. I am starting to think that Ben needs someone to reign him in, much like Favre needed late in his career. Look at how he was his last year in GB and his first year in MN when he had someone getting in his face and making him play within the system.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jan 18, 2012 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
and wasn’t that Favre’s best year statistically, or was it the following one?
Things can always be worse....
agree
I’ve always thought they were fairly similar QBs in many ways. Both do better when someone forces them to improvise less, and not throw into ridiculously tight coverage.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jan 19, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Good breakdown
I would like Haley or Jackson, not sure what Grimm has to offer and don’t know enough about Fitchner. I do think that who ever it is needs to reign Ben in a bit and get him to start thinking about playing 16+ full games a year and trying to avoid injury.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 18, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm maybe a former Steelers player can come in and be the OC? It worked with Lake.
Any former Steelers in the college ranks or assistant coaches in the NFL?
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." ~Jack Lambert.
"Superman ain't got nothing on me, ... Kryptonite? C'mon now. It's just that you're never going to hear me say that somebody is tougher than me, ... Because I don't believe somebody else could be tougher than me." ~James Harrison
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Jan 18, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think it is Ben hate
but I could be wrong.
I do think Ben needs to make changes to his play if he is going to continue playing QB in the NFL for many more years. You can’t play if you can’’t walk, and he may be tough but he is also human. His body is getting badly beaten up and he was not nearly as effective once his leg was injured. He needs an OC that is going to make him adjust his play to the needs of the team and the situation without killing the things that make Ben special.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 18, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
…accurately while reading what the D is giving
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
+1 on the accuracy
and an occasional dump off. That’s all I will ask for, maybe a guard. Faneca type :)
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
by Pittsblitz56 on Jan 18, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
He not adapting to quickly throw the ball or look underneath caused him his ankle injury
Which kind of ended our season.
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
I wish I knew for sure it was this simple
Essentially Big Ben needs to change his mindset as a football player and actually be willing to be coached.
but my hunch is that his third ring and #7 for the franchise in the next three years kind of depends on it. Tomlin being more of a ‘D’ guy, well, I wonder how much he depends on Arians. Include in that as well that Ben was established pre-Tomlin.
Another random thought, can anyone picture Ben doing a Batch impression? You know, holding a clip board and coaching up other QBs on the roster? I don’t. Draft or acquire a QB. Maybe Yeats or Schaub will become available? Probably not, but you know they don’t say no to Ben about going back in when injured when you have questions about the #2 and # 3. And somebody needs to push Ben to change, and that would be competition.
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
The real reason to dislike BA
is because we has a 4000+ yards passer, two 1000+ yards receivers, a near 1000 yard runner, were #10 for total yards, ~#7 for time-of-possession, etc. and were #22 in scoring. You can say that is because of the OL, but it is the same OL that brought the rest of the stuff as well. Something changed inside the reszone and I don’t think it was the OL!
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo (1970)
well the reason why i dislike Arians
A short list: terrible playcalling, no adjustments, bubble screens, no FB, no running plays planned, no game planing, bad clock management, takes too long to decide plays and we end up wasting timeouts, 3 and 1 and empty backfields, no use of the RB and an optional receiver, a terrible OL, 4 tries from the 1 and we cant score a TD, WR routes too complex.
"Everytime NE Patriots lose, Football wins", myself
This is all very well,
but outside the parameters that PaVaSteeler set up for the post. You’re not supposed to be bitching about Arians, you’re supposed to give possible alternatives. After all, it’s possible that the Rooneys are very unhappy with Arians, but if they don’t see a viable alternative, they aren’t going to dump him or “suggest” that he retire.
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 19, 2012 6:01 AM EST up reply actions
I understand you like Arians
And had this discussion before, i was answering to Andy the reason why i dislike Arians, he mention we why dislike him and i was completing my reasons, btw i am not the only one “bitching” about him..
If the Rooney take care to read this blog and will determine his new OC by what we discuss in this post then your right, but honestly i dont think they will care a lot about what ideas we bring, otherwise they will have dump Arians a long time ago.
Anyway, in another post here, i mentioned i will love to have Todd Haley as our OC.
"Everytime NE Patriots lose, Football wins", myself
I don't much about the names out there
But I would imagine either Todd Haley or Hue Jackson might be good options.
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
Is bringing in a new Offensive Coordinator going to suddenly enable the O-line to pass protect? Or enable them to open holes for Mendenhall to run through? Or cause Ben, after 8 years, to change his style of holding on to ball for 6 seconds every play? I doubt it. We need to draft a new Guard or 2 to keep Ben upright. This group has been there before and can be there again. Is there a precedent in NFL history where a team on the brink of championship contention changed O-coordinators and that put them over the top?
Please, no change just for the sake of change.
by jedmiller71 on Jan 18, 2012 10:59 AM EST via mobile reply actions
One argument might be that...
…if Arians gets credit for the drafting and training of wide receivers, shouldn’t he get the blame for the drafting/training of the offensive linemen?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Jan 18, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely, I am no Arians lover,
But if there were a guy capable of doing both so successfully, he wouldn’t be job hunting to be an offensive Coordinator. The Bruce-Ben combo is a consistent winner; IMO the grass is greener on our side.
by jedmiller71 on Jan 18, 2012 11:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm more and more thinking
that instead of getting blamed for the play of the O line, he should be blamed for not making Ben see reason. In other words, if you can’t run around enough to escape the pass rush, you can’t continue to play sandlot football. As to the O line, I don’t think there is any question that we need a replacement for Kemoeatu, and at least some competition for Foster. But just that, without Ben modifying his playing style at least somewhat, isn’t going to solve the problem.
And just to play more devil’s advocate, since Arians became OC there has never been a WR drafted higher than the 3rd round. I’m under the impression that it’s a lot easier to luck out with a later-round WR that can make an impact right away than it is with an O lineman. The only O linemen drafted in the top two rounds since Arians took over are Maurkice Pouncey and Marcus Gilbert, and I don’t think anyone would argue that both picks were on the money. The “dud” would be Kraig Urbik in the 3rd round (which I’m thinking is low for an immediate-impact player) and he’s a starting lineman on another team, so maybe there’s where Arians can be blamed, for not seeing the potential. That is, assuming that Urbik is playing well for the Bills, which I don’t know.
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 19, 2012 6:16 AM EST up reply actions
Play calling
Protection stinks because too many deep routes are called and BA doesn’t build checkdowns into most plays.
BA needs to go because he is not good. Red zone is poor. Clock management is poor. Plays are late coming it. He doesnt adjust. Loves the deep ball when we don’t need it. Runs reverses from half yard line. Calls a pitch sweep to your slowest RB when on the verge of FG range to win the game. I am not an emotional ranting fan. Just call it like I see it. He is not very good
But who do you suggest instead?
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 19, 2012 6:17 AM EST up reply actions
Don't know who
Cohwer promoted from within twice with malarkey and whiz. I would take A chance on any hungry up and comer. BA has proven to be a poor OC so what do we have to lose
Is there a precedent in NFL history where a team on the brink of championship contention changed O-coordinators and that put them over the top?
IIRC, Chuck Noll changed OC’s in ’77 or somewhere around that time.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jan 18, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
If Turner became the OC...
Big Ben would not throw for just 4,000 yards, but also 30 TDs easy
Rashard Mendenhall would get 2,000 yards from scrimmage
Heath Miller would get 1,000 yards receiving
The next kicker would not be asked to kick a lot of 30 and under FGs (which happens too much for my liking already)
The offense would be top 10 in scoring.
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.- Mark Twain
by steeler_chris_5 on Jan 18, 2012 11:03 AM EST reply actions
But why....?
…forget about what the players would achieve, why would it work so much better under Turner.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Jan 18, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
his balance is what i like most about him.
and he’s the biggest reason Rivers has developed into the QB he is today. he knows how to use ALL his weapons on offense. he knows where his playmakers are and gets them the ball. Vincent Jackson, Antonio Gates, Ryan Mathews all get the ball in situations where they can excel, and he has taught Rivers how to go to the right one and not force it to the wrong one.
by steel.curtain.number2 on Jan 18, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Look at his track record as an OC
The examples that I know of are him being the Cowboys OC in ’92, and then he was the ’49ers OC before being hired by SD. At SF, he had Alex Smith looking his best outside of this season.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jan 18, 2012 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
You forgot to mention
that more clock would be eaten up thus limiting how much time the defense has to spend on the field.
by ThoughtsAndSox on Jan 19, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
FINALLY...
Yes – agreed but Turner may be a yr away
Uggh, Turner is just like Martz Living off of a reputation he built because he had great players.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Not exactly...
Martz proved his system works as long as the right player is at QB.. They had no line to begin with (sound familiar) but he did little to nothing in 2 yrs to improve that line (Sound a bit familiar) for Cutler and once Cutler was hurt there went the talent at the QB. Plus.. Great OC doesn’t translate into a GREAT HC. When was the last time Philip Rivers was sacked. So lets compare Sack Totals since BB and PR tend to have similar playing styles and hold onto the ball and drafted in same draft..
PR: 171
BB: 314
Other career stats clearly favor Rivers because of the offensive scheme implemented by Turner in 14 fewer games ( nearly a full season worth)… Hard to argue numbers
What about it? It’s certainly not what anyone would call great, or even really good.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
after Cutler basically tole Martz that he was getting killed
he called a lot more short passes and that offense took off. Then Cutler and Forte went down and the offense went to hell in a hand basket rather quickly
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Clemson should've stopped turning the ball over" Dana Holgorsen when asked about running up the score in the Orange Bowl
by WVPiratesfan on Jan 18, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
A little off on a tangent here...
We have a 4,000 yard passer. But it may be because the New Collegiate Football League has trended that way for a while, finally coming to fruition. And while we DO have a 4,000 yard passer (and passing is way up across the league for many teams), that stat decreased significantly the last number of games, due to injuries to Ben and dropped passes by receivers, bad blocking and Ben spending too much time in the pocket wanting to throw to far down field. The last is the fault of both Ben and Bruce for not making or even trying to make proper adjustments to situations.
What concerns me more is when the offensive line needed replacements because of the injuries and those replacements were not as good as the starters, the same game plan continued and the same plays were called time after time expecting progress but resulting in poor performance. It’s the same with every team but when you put in 2nd stringers, you need to make changes. It’s just basic that you can’t do what got you there with people who just aren’t as good as those who start. I saw very little change in the Steeler attack with all the substitutions. That was inexcusable.
The other point about a new OC is how he would get along with Tomlin. I’d imagine that’s rather important, too. And also, how much control he’d be allowed over the offense by Tomlin or even comments by the Front Office.
Lastly, for what it’s worth, I’ve noticed a change in Dick LeBeau’s scheme the last couple of years. Again, much may be due to injuries and age but it’s also possible there’s “influence” from outside his control. If that’s so, it could explain a lot.
Just some thoughts.
Def Agree with ...
Adjustments are not in Arians Vocab.. I think a healthy BB with the no huddle is the best game plan since nothing else seems to happen depending upon the replacement but I blame this on Tomlin… He should know better and work more with the OC to make sure that happens. Id wager if we can get s great OLINE id bet Arians system works great but not when the line is so battered.
Is...
when the offensive line needed replacements because of the injuries and those replacements were not as good as the starters, the same game plan continued and the same plays were called time after time expecting progress but resulting in poor performance.
a product of poor coaching/stubbornness on the part of Arians, or is it the Steelers adhereing to Tomlin’s “The Standard is the Standard”?
If you attribute it to Arians’ poor coaching and/or stubbornness, does Tomlin get a pass on that, or do you hold him responsible as Head Coach? If instead you believe its part of Tomlin’s “Standard” mantra, wouldn’t any new OC be faced with the same thing- no matter the substitutions, the accepted game plan must be adhered to?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Great point
The standard is the standard sounds all well and good, except it is a departure from reality. All players are not equal, all players do not possess the same skills and multiple injuries call for adjusting the playsheet on a weekly basis.
Not sure if Tomlin or ownership really believes that stuff. But, if he is held to the same standard regardless of injuries, contract disputes, illnesses, family emergencies etc., then he is kind of setting himself up when things don’t go so well.
Is Jim Caldwell responsible for Manning’s injury, the Colts not having a competent back-up, the Colts not having invested in line positions ??? He got fired even though I’m sure he had no control over these issues. I don’t know what kind of HC he is but they were in the SB a few years ago. Now, he gets thrown out with the rest of the gang in an effort to rebuild the entire organization.
The standard can only be the standard when all parts are equal and readily replaceable. That is not possible given limited talent at the elite level and the salary cap.
"Franz" in NoCal
PaVaSteeler
Ultimately, Tomlin is responsible for all the actions and inactions of his staff so he’s accountable for the good and the bad. Part of the job.
I question just how much Tomiln inputs to the offense Arians runs. It’s entirely possible Bruce is a good soldier and is following orders from Tomlin or even higher. It’s also possible many questionable calls were not made by Arians. Look at the decisions concerning a couple of field goals and punts late in the season. Tomlin made the decision. Why? As I recall, they didn’t work out the way Tomlin hoped. Maybe Bruce wanted to do something different. We just don’t and probably won’t ever know that. As an aside, I also question how much input Tomlin uses on defense being a former DC even though LeBeau has probably forgotten more than Tomlin knows about that side of the game. And there possibly could be a little bit of ego there although that’s hard to believe. Tomlin “suggesting” defenses may account for some bad OR good results. Again, we just don’t know.
That “Standard” crap is bogus. It’s time to stop playing 1970s offense or no matter who you put on the field, unless you can put together another great offensive line, a 260 pound fast full back (Bettis), a great blocker for him, we’ve probably seen the last of the great unning days of Pro Football, at least for a while.
And yes, if Tomlin or someone higher has more than a passing amount of control over the offense, any new OC will be handcuffed to varying extents.
It used to be an accomplishment for a back to gain 1000 yards…when there were only 12 games per season. 80 plus yards per game predicated on a running league was excellent. Upping to 14 per season dropped that requirement to about 70 per game and it became easier to accomplish. Now with 16 games (and hopefully not 18) 62 yards per game to reach 1000 yards per season is not a tough target even for many QBs. Sooner or later Vick or even Tebow will reach that plateau then all we’ll hear about is how great they are rather than the dumbing down of the requirement.
The same can be said for receivers through the years.
This next year will be a metric for Tomlin with all the injuries, FAs and possible trades and retirements.
Vick got to 1000, breaking the record that was in the 960s by some 1980s QB I think. Some white guy to boot. /racism /pun
Bobby Douglas
I remember him. He wasn’t very good. Sorta a Tebowesque player but lacking the fame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Douglass
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 20, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Coach Dad has had to change partly b/c of injuries but maybe more b/c the league does now pass more. The 3-4 Defense is meant to confuse and attack the QB and contain running backs however, as Brady and others have shown, a 3-4 HAS to have top notch CB’s or get torched especially since Godell has handcuff defenses from performing optimally. We have not had those type of corners since the Lake and Woodson and even then I wonder how good they would be today with the Godells Rules
With Wikipedia blacked out...
…I’m having trouble finding a list of current NFL Offensive Coordinators to post here, to return the discussion to:
Who, and Why?
Anyone want to through names other than Turner, Haley or Martz into the mix?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Yeah I will
Peter Carmichael Jr.- OC New Orleans Saints for the last three years adn QB coach for the three year prior to that. Took over play calling while Peyton was injured and the Saints didn’t lose a beat.
Aaron Kromer- OL and Running Game coach New Orleans Saints- He has 20 years of coaching experience including the last 3 with the Saints. In his first year at OL coach after being RB coach 3 of his OL were selected to Pro Bowl.
Rick Dennison- OC Houston- 2 years as OC in Texas and the Running game was renewed for the Texans, was the OC for Denver from 2006-2008 as well.
John Benton- OL coach Houston, been that position for the last 6 years
Chick Harris- 10 seasons as Houstons RB coach done a pretty good job their no matter whose running the ball.
Greg Roman- OC 49ers- He has done a decent job with his pieces with the 49ers and was with Stanford prior.
Scott Linehan- OC Detriot Lions
Todd Downing- QB Lions
Tom Clemens- QB coach Green Bay
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
or
Curtis Moken- Bills OC and RB coach last two years with Buffalo and Fred Jackson and C.J. PSiller looked good, in 2009 he was Cardinals RB/ running game coach and the Cards had one of their best years ever in running the ball with Beanie Wells and Tim Hightower. He had his team with a 3,000 yard passer, and 2 with a 1,000 yards from scrimmage. Also former Georgiua Tech RB coach where he coach a guy like Tashard Choice to a draft pick.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
New OC?
Why limit the choice to the NFL? There are a lot of good college OCs out there and since the NFL is basically an extension of college ball, it could be a seamless transition.
Plus, while 2012 will not basically be a rebuilding year, it’ll be as close to one as they can get so a very good college OC could wet his feet in 2012 and really help in 2013.
And he’d be a LOT cheaper than an established Pro!
I didn't intentionally limit it to NFL Coordinators...
…but I have a hard time believing a college OC, with no NFL rings or experience to back him up, would be able to come in and exert sufficient authority over Ben to enforce a new game plan.
Now, a current college OC, with past successful NFL experience, might be a different matter.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Remember Cohwer
twice promoted unproven tight ends coaches to OC. Mularkey then Wisenhunt.
Hard to say who on his staff is a promising young coach with potential.
Fitchner has many years as OC in college. Other than that, who know?
need offensive line
If you watch playoffs all the QB where never touched like bigben gets rough up every game, i think we get some good offensive line men this offense will take off.
Thanks for the link...
….based on A. Rooney’s comments Tuesday, and now Dulac’s conjecture, its starting to look a little more possible that a great many Steeler fans will get their wish; hence this post.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
you made my day, i have hope for the Steelers now
"Everytime NE Patriots lose, Football wins", myself
My top two picks aren't happening
After he was fired from the Dolphins, I wanted Cam Cameron. He OC’d excellent offenses when he was Marty’s OC with the Chargers. I hear that Ravens fans hate him, but I think that if he had Ben at QB, his offenses would reflect more what you saw when he was at SD than what he has now with Flacco at QB.
Norv hasn’t been fired yet, but he’d be even better than Cam. He coordinated one of the more dominant offenses in memory, when he was the Cowboys’ OC back in ’91-92. They did have an excellent OL, but they also made great use of the TE and FB in the passing game while still showing a top running game. How about a little PA at the goal-line?
After that, I could see Tomlin hiring a young up and comer, much like the approach the Rooney’s took with him. As has been noted elsewhere on this blog, every new hire that Tomlin has brought in has been a success (OL, special teams, and CBs all saw improvement with his new coaches brought in). I trust Tomlin to find a good young OC to bring improvements to the offense.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jan 18, 2012 8:48 PM EST reply actions
I’ll take pretty much anyone but Arians. He is completely unrhythmic in his play-calling, gameplanning seeming to be minimum and his adjustments at halftime even moreso. I’m going to take heat for this, but I’d take Bryan Schottenheimer. He has done a pretty good job masking his qb’s weaknesses for most of his tenure there. Let’s face it, Sanchize is definitely in the bottom half of QBs in the NFL — TJ Yates reminded me a lot of him. He did this with good play action and good running games. I’d give him a shot over Arians.
Sanchize is definitely in the bottom half of QBs in the NFL
Don’t tell the Jets fans. They still think he is a good QB.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
He is technically in the bottom half, but I’d go farther and say he’s in the bottom eighth of QB’s
(I think that’s right, what I’m trying to say is, he is one of the 4 worst starting quarterbacks in the NFL)
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
What about Sean Kugler?
Arians has just never seemed to “get” just how limited our o-line is, as can be seen by his penchant for Playstation football, which forces Ben to be a sitting duck out there while his guys try to get open.
They say you can’t polish fecal matter, but Sean has pretty much had to do just that since arriving in Pittsburgh last year. He understands how limited this o-line is and, presumably, will be for the next year or two. His playbook would probably be more tailored to our offensive line’s capabilities. My vote is for Kugler.
Those who can...do.
Those who can't... post on message boards using a screen name boasting the name of those who can.
by Craig Sager's Wardrobe on Jan 18, 2012 9:53 PM EST reply actions
How bout Sterling Sharpe or Brian Baldinger?
Those guys seem to know their X’s and O’s and are pretty damn entertaining too. I’m sure Spaceman would have a ton of material for his posts.
Stay thirsty my friends.
by SteelerMessican on Jan 18, 2012 11:01 PM EST reply actions
Baldinger would accidently keep poking someone’s eye out in meetings with that crazy-finger.
by Dr. Spaceman on Jan 19, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Trust in the FO
Im pretty sure the FO has some-one waiting in line to take over from BA. Probably some-one already in the organization that most of us have not heard of. That is what I would like to see anyway. TE coach has done a great job. So has WR coach. Too early for OL Kugler and not a good time for RB coach.
Pretty much the same as they have done for DC with Mitchell waiting for LeBeau to retire.
who? anyone, really
Seriously, with all the talent we have anyone with a little coomon sense could do a better job than Arians.
Todd Haley will be fantastic.
"Everytime NE Patriots lose, Football wins", myself
you think Ben is going to have some asshole that has accomplished nothing in his coaching career screaming and talking down to him? What makes you think Haley would work in Pittsburgh?
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I love coaches like him that makes his point noted
Some entusiasm every once ina while motivates players
"Everytime NE Patriots lose, Football wins", myself
being a raging asshole
isn’t enthusiasm….
"Leave the gun. Bring the Canolis."
Guiding the Cards offense to a SB is nothing
So what you will about how he had Warner, Fitz and Boldin. They had no running game and as evidenced by how Boldin has disappeared in Baltimore, he ran an offense to get him open and resurrected Warner’s career after it was widely considered he was done.
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Clemson should've stopped turning the ball over" Dana Holgorsen when asked about running up the score in the Orange Bowl
by WVPiratesfan on Jan 24, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I’m going to be here laughing at least once a day next season if we get a new OC and our offense is even worse.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I totally understand the sentiment,
as I get really sick of Arians bashing, but on the other hand I would hate to see our offense get worse…
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 19, 2012 6:45 AM EST up reply actions
The only way this can get worse is if Ben get injured
And this scenario is more likely with Arians and his stuborness of not getting a good OL for Ben, not planning a running game and plays, and wr routes too complex that need a lot of time to accomplish.
"Everytime NE Patriots lose, Football wins", myself
you know Arians has absolutely nothing to do with who is drafted right? Or any personnel decision for that matter. He can make suggestions till he’s blue in the fact, that’s as far as that goes.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
+1 was waiting for this
you know Arians has absolutely nothing to do with who is drafted right?
by Steely McSmash on Jan 19, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Same will apply to Lebau?
You are incorrect, of course he tells them his priorities
"Everytime NE Patriots lose, Football wins", myself
Not likely but...
How about John Gruden. He’s out of coaching, but certainly still in the game, he might not be getting HC job offers, but as an OC he could climb back into the saddle. He’s got ties with Tomlin, and would certainly be prestigious enough of a coach to get Ben to change and improve some. I agree that the enabling has to stop, but it takes a major player to get it accomplished, otherwise it’ll be chaos and dissension. Problem is the salary would have to be pretty good because I’ll bet he gets top dollar for the job he does for the networks.
Dick, what would Woody (Hayes) say to you now: "He'd say, 'LeBeau, get your hair cut.'"
If I’m not mistaken he just signed an extension to stay in the booth. I think he likes it, or he likes making Jaws hate his life
thaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttt guuuuuuuuuuuuuuyyyyyyyyyyy
is one heck of a ball player.
Oh, and BTW
interesting post, PaVa! I really appreciate hearing the possible alternatives.
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 19, 2012 6:46 AM EST reply actions
Thanks, Ms. Rollett...
…I felt a little like a “school marm” asking the kids to play nice, but given the sheer quantity of BA bashing and the accompanying vitriol, prefered to try to set the tone up front. And I am truely curious who the Steelers could replace BA with, though as some have pointed it out here, it very well could be a non-OC, some other postional coach from within, or from another team.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Just anyone else
But Arians, I could less about all the yards we gain, we don’t score enough points as a whole and never score enough TD’s or put teams away. I could get into how unimaginative and uncreative and how I can tell which of the 10 plays they are going to run when they line up, but it really doesn’t matter, if they ran one play over and over but scored points then none of it would matter but they just don’t for a plethora of reasons. The saints and Pats had no-name OC’s and look how good that worked. Any competent offense should be able to score with the rules and we just don’t score enough.period. And 5 years of underperforming is enough, time for him to go, they really couldn’t be worse at scoring with anybody else anyhow, I see it only improving the offense no matter what and replacing one coach can make the most improvement.
by SteelCity G on Jan 19, 2012 9:30 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
As the announcer says “Any time they motion Mike Wallace they throw a screen to him” the entire defense ignores the rest of the play and runs downhill on Wallace. He’s predictable, especially in the RZ, and while it’s not a simple 10 plays he’s running, to suggest he is anything other than unrhythmic at the very least is as you so eloquently put it: bullshit
Obviously
They run more than 10 plays, but not many and really, you can’t tell when they line-up that the bubble screen is coming? You can’t tell when they line-up single back with a TE tight to each side on 1st down that they are just gonna slam the RB straight ahead? You can’t tell when they line-up on 3-1 in shotgun,empty backfield they are gonna pass the ball? You can’t tell on 2-8 when they go five wide that they are going deep? And there are more but I’ve made my point, so while I did exaggerate some, it’s still not far from the mark and considering they run each play what seems like 5 times a game, it becomes very easy to see what they are going to do. It’s a very predictable and stupid offense, why have 3 TE’s and never throw them the ball, Johnson is a decent blocking TE but not as good as a fullback and he drops 1 of 2 so why even have him? Why do routes take multiple receivers into the same area where neither goes for the ball and draws 3 or 4 defenders to that area anyhow? We have had a Super Bowl D every year under Tomlin but maybe 1, while the offense has underperformed in it’s entirety under Arians, 21,12,12,and 20 in scoring the last 4 years while the D has been 1,1,12,1 in scoring defense. If the defense finished with those rankings it would be unacceptable so why in a league where it is set-up for offense is it alright to perform so poorly? If he does return it’s delaying the inevitable of him leaving anyhow, cut the shenanigans now, they can’t be any worse without him.
Not at all bullshit.
I can be slightly zoned out while watching the game from the couch and know what’s coming.
Your response to this represents your ability to predict Arians' offense, not others'.
And there is a reason he is not coaching our offense anymore.
Ken Anderson?
I know he retired last season from his position as Ben’s QB coach, but he might be willing to come back for a promotion to OC.
Randy Fichtner also makes sense. He is more of a Tomlin guy, than a BA guy. Tomlin and Fichtner where both on the same coaching staff at Arkansas State, along with Keith Butler.
Brad Childress?
A former OC with Tomlin ties. Was Eagles OC when they made the AFC championship game 3 years in a row. I don’t know how the FO would feel about moving in the direction of a West Coast offense. I don’t think I would like it.
You didn't REALLY think...
You could open up a post on Bruce Arians and NOT get some bashing, did you??? Arians is up there with Obama, man…
I expected some bashing...
…but I also expected a lot more concrete, practical suggestions, with reasons why, especially from the “BA Bashers” crowd.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Jim Wexell just made a great suggestion on 93.7
He likes Tom Clements; current QB coach for Green Bay, and who was a former QB coach here in Pittsburgh. Says he’s a firm hand that would be more controlling but not a control freak over Ben’s style of play. Look at Rodgers’ style of play for a sample; you think of him as a pocket-passer, but he actually makes quite of few plays on the run. The only issue is is that Clements is currently interviewing for the HC position in Tampa. If he doesn’t get the job, and Arians TRULY is done (I’m not completely buying it), I’d love to see Clements brought in.
by Tim Mullhaupt (HSS) on Jan 19, 2012 3:15 PM EST reply actions
+1
That would be a great hire. Plus, he’s one of my all-time favorite CFL QBs! He was our Joe Montana for a while up north, just ask Cold_Old_Steelers’_Fan.
Dick, what would Woody (Hayes) say to you now: "He'd say, 'LeBeau, get your hair cut.'"
One of the best to play in CFL
IIRC he didn’t have a lot of arm strength but did it with accuracy and smarts.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 20, 2012 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
He had touch, savvy and he was cool under pressure. Plus a class act if memory serves.
Dick, what would Woody (Hayes) say to you now: "He'd say, 'LeBeau, get your hair cut.'"
I am trying to remember who the backup was that year
All I can remember the backup was a former starter with the Stampeders plus he had held a clip board for the Broncos in the NFL. When Clements started to struggle (as all QBs do at some point) the Bombers would throw in the backup for a series then put Clements back in. It worked well.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 20, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Really?
Clements was league MVP his last year, I don’t remember him ever struggling.
Dick, what would Woody (Hayes) say to you now: "He'd say, 'LeBeau, get your hair cut.'"
He had moments during some games
but overall he was good. IIRC his backup was Hufnagel.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 21, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Kordell had one of his best years with Clements as his QB coach.
Those who can...do.
Those who can't... post on message boards using a screen name boasting the name of those who can.
by Craig Sager's Wardrobe on Jan 19, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
According to this story, our new OC is in the hospital
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
And is probably one of those who will retire...
…that whole story is quite sad.
by SteelheadOH on Jan 19, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
Merrill Hoge for OC
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest." Jack Lambert.
YOU GET A SEAM HERE AND A SEAM HERE
AND YOU RUN RIGHT DOWN THE ALLEY. This would be our whole offense, I’ll pass
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Clemson should've stopped turning the ball over" Dana Holgorsen when asked about running up the score in the Orange Bowl
by WVPiratesfan on Jan 24, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Clements would be nice...or Haley.
Impose your will.
I just want someone
who will emphasize that Ben need to get the ball out of his hand quickly when he see the blitz. Arians openly admitted he didn’t want to coach that into Ben because he didn’t want ot take that away from him.
Ben and the offense need to be able to recognize blitzes better and get the ball out hot.
Then later in the game if blocking has been good you can go to the deep ball.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
Those in the running and those not considered
I really have no idea who they will bring in to be OC. However, some of the big names may not be the best out there.
1. Haley and Hugh Jackson may come with a lot of baggage and mixed results.
2. Martz and Norv Turner are they just looking for their next HC gig
3.. Caldwell. was never and OC and did he really develop Peyton or just ride the ship. He could obviously not develop and decent #2 qb so I would stay away from that ship at all costs. The fact Tomlin has ties here worries me.
4. Fitchcner — Could be intriguing. I know the arguement is he an Arians clone but that can come out in the interview. He has a history with high powered offenses at least at Memphis for what that is worth. Plus if Arians was a Whizenhunt clone we would not be looking for an OC right now.
5. Clements. First I wonder if GB will promote him. Second he is a good choice to me. Yeah I know he was oc in Buffalo a while back but come on did he really have a chance. Plus look at what he did with Matt Flynn and had to learn something being in that offense and organization for several years.
6. Also, is there a QB coach somewhere like New Orleans, Detroit, or somewhere that is the budding star. Remember all of the people who are now considered the offensive guru’s in the NFL were either QB or WR coaches once upon a time.
Also whoever they bring in expect growing pains with learning a new system.
Does Steeler Nation have the patience for growing pains?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Jan 22, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
Probably not
Everyone will complain no matter what.
However, struggles in camp can be worked through. Plus with our defense we don’t have to score 40 a game to win (like GB, NO, and at times NE).
To me what will be interesting is if they go outside of Fitchner how many of the asst coaches will be retained and what it will mean for the roster make up next year.
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