A Comprehensive Look at Offensive Coordinators in the NFL for the Past Five Seasons
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 23, 2012 8:15 AM EST
Email
PrintI thought it would be interesting to have a look at the Offensive Coordinator position around the league. As I suspected, there has been a fair amount of liquidity, you might say.
There are several teams that do not have an OC as such. In Cleveland, Dallas, and Arizona the head coach also serves as the offensive play caller, and Chan Gailey mainly calls the plays in Buffalo, although they have a figurehead OC who apparently is mainly the RB coach.
Since the beginning of the 2007 season there have been 76 changes in Offensive Coordinator in the NFL. That isn't the extent of it, since I am also counting new hires for next season, and there are five teams, including the Steelers, who are currently without an offensive coordinator, so presumably that number will go up to 81. It could even be more, as the OC in IND, for example, might be encouraged to move on when they hire a new head coach.
If one were to try to make a flow chart of the movements of coaches between teams, you would quickly get a headache. Or at least I would. During the time when 76 changes were made on teams, 58 men were involved in those changes, which included lateral moves, demotions, promotions, and those who no longer coach in the NFL.
You can find a complete list by team of the offensive coordinators at the end of the post, including where they came from and where they went. Here I've divided them up into what they are currently doing below. As you can see, 10 of them, about 18%, are probably finished coaching. Five of them, or about 8%, are now head coaches in the NFL, and 24 of them, about 41%, are currently OCs in the NFL. Of the remaining 19 men, (about 33% of the total,) five are currently seeking jobs, nine are position coaches in the NFL, and the other five are coaching in colleges or the UFL.
|
HC, NFL |
OC, NFL |
Position Coach, NFL |
|
Chan Gailey, BUF |
Darrell Bevell, SEA |
Jeff Davidson, MIN |
|
Jason Garrett, DAL |
Bob Bratkowski, JAX |
Gil Haskell, CLE |
|
Mike Mularkey, JAX |
Cam Cameron, BAL |
Jim Hostler, BAL |
|
Joe Philbin, MIA |
Pete Carmichael, Jr., NO |
Greg Knapp, HOU |
|
Pat Shurmer, CLE |
Rob Chudzinski, CAR |
Greg Olson, JAX |
|
|
Brian Daboll, MIA |
Sherman Smith, SEA |
|
|
Rick Dennison, HOU |
Mike Solari, 49ers |
|
|
Kevin Gilbride, NYG |
Ron Turner, IND |
|
|
Jay Gruden: CIN |
Alex Van Pelt, TB |
|
|
Dirk Koetter, ATL |
|
|
|
Scott Linehan, DET |
|
|
|
Mike McCoy, DEN |
|
|
|
Josh McDaniels, NE |
|
|
|
[Curtis Modkins: OC/RB coach, BUF] |
|
|
|
Tom Moore, Sr. OC, IND |
|
|
|
Marty Mornhinweg, PHI |
|
|
|
Bill Muir, KC |
|
|
|
Bill Musgrave, MIN |
|
|
|
Chris Palmer, TEN |
|
|
|
Greg Roman, 49ers |
|
|
|
Al Saunders, OAK |
|
|
|
Brian Schottenheimer, STL |
|
|
|
Kyle Shanahan, WAS |
|
|
|
Tony Sparano, NYJ |
|
|
|
|
|
|
HC, University |
UFL |
|
Norm Chow, Univ. of Hawaii |
Turk Schonert: Off. Asst. |
|
Doug Marrone, Syracuse |
|
|
Bill O’Brien, Penn State |
|
|
Charlie Weis, U. of Kansas |
|
The following coaches retired, willingly or no:
Bruce Arians: retired
Jeremy Bates: fired in 2011, presumed retired
Jim Colletto: retired in 09
Steve Fairchild: fired from HC position, CO State, Dec. 2011
Mike Heimerdinger: fired 2/11, died 9/11
Dan Henning: Presumed retired
Jeff Jagodzinski: HC in UFL, fired in 2011, presumed retired
Mike Martz: Retired Jan. 2012
Jimmy Raye: Presumed retired
Clarence Shelmon: Retired
This leaves the following five men who are looking for a job at the moment:
Todd Haley: fired as HC, KC, Nov. 2011
Hue Jackson: fired as HC, OAK Jan. 2012
Rick Neuheisel: fired as HC, UCLA in Nov. 2011
Mike Sherman: fired as HC, Texas A&M, Dec. 2011
Ted Tollner: fired as OC, OAK, 2011
As you might suspect, a lot of the moving around was concentrated in a few teams. I've divided it up, and removed cases where the OC was hired away for a head coaching position. Since it's pretty hard to tell exactly how badly somebody wanted to "retire," I've treated retirements as moves. For clarity, I've treated currently open positions as another coordinator, and also treated situations where no new coordinator was hired as a move, since it was a change in the person calling the offense.
5 4 3 2 1 KC BUF CHI ARI DAL STL OAK CLE ATL GB SF SEA DET BAL IND TB HOU CAR NYG MIA CIN PHI TEN DEN WAS JAX MIN NE NO NYJ PIT SD
Nearly half of the changes were accounted for by seven teams. Consistency isn't everything, but it has a lot to be said for it.
In the current list of 24 Offensive Coordinators, one-third are lateral moves, coming in as an OC from another team: Bob Bratkowski, Dirk Koettner, Rick Dennison, Brian Daboll, Kevin Gilbride, Brian Schottenheimer, Kyle Shanahan, and Darrell Bevell. Very often position coaches are promoted, either from within the team, as is the case with Bill Muir, Marty Mornhinweg, and Peter Carmichael, Jr., or from another team, as with Curtis Modkins, Rob Chudzinski, Mike McCoy, Bill Musgrave, and Al Saunders - position coaches account for a further one third of the current OCs.
Four of the current OCs were Head Coaches previously: Cam Cameron, Scott Linehan, Josh McDaniels, Tony Sparano; Todd Haley and Hue Jackson may well be added to this list within a few weeks. [UPDATE: steelers-chicago sent the info that Mike Tice, former HC of the Vikings, has been names OC in CHI.] Other sources are the UFL (Jay Gruden and Chris Palmer) or college coaches (Greg Roman.) Tom Moore has been the OC for IND since 1998, so it's sort of moot.
As mentioned above, three teams have no OC. The remainder of the teams have open positions at the moment (CHI, GB, SD, TB, and of course PIT.) It will be very interesting to see how the Steelers fill the open OC position. Although PIT typically promotes from within, as we saw with the hiring of Mike Tomlin, they don't necessarily do the expected thing, and if it is true that Kirby Wilson was the heir apparent, they may look farther afield than would have been expected.
Finally, for those who are interested in such things, here is the information I compiled on the OCs for all 32 teams, beginning in 2007. Enjoy!
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Todd Haley: 2 years
No OC after Haley left - Russ Grimm is Asst. HC, with various offensive duties
OC(s) Background:
Haley: WR coach, DAL, 04 - 06
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Haley: HC, KC, 09-11
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Hue Jackson; 1 year (was under an interim HC)
Mike Mularkey; 4 years
Dirk Koetter, hired 1/12
OC(s) Background:
Jackson: WR coach, Bengals, 04-06
Mularkey: TE coach, MIA, 07; released
Koetter: OC, JAX, 07-11
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Jackson: WR coach, BAL, 08-09; OC, OAK, 2010; HC, OAK, 2011; fired
Mularkey: HC, JAX, 2012
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Rick Neuheisel: listed as OC, but actually HC Brian Billick was in effect the OC
Cam Cameron: to present
OC(s) Background:
Neuheisel: QB coach, BAL (2005-06); promoted to OC
Cameron: fired as HC of MIA
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Neuheisel: HC UCLA, fired 11/11
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Steve Fairchild: most of season
Turk Schonert: 1 year
Alex Van Pelt: 1 year
Curtis Modkins: 2010 - present (but Chan Gailey mainly calls off. plays, and Modkins coaches the RBs)
OC(s) Background:
Fairchild: Asst. OC, Rams, 03-05; OC, Bills, 2006
Schonert: QB coach, NYG, 06-07
Van Pelt: QB coach, BUF, 08
Modkins: RB coach, ARI
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Fairchild: left to take HC job at Colorado State
Schonert: fired at beginning of 09 season, now coaching in UFL
Van Pelt: fired at end of 09 season, hired by TB as QB coach
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Jeff Davidson: 4 years
Rob Chudzinski: 2011-present
OC(s) Background:
Davidson: CLE OL coach, promoted to OC in 2006
Chudzinski: SD TE and Asst. HC, 2009-11
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Davidson: OL coach, Vikings, hired 1/11
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Ron Turner: 3 years
Mike Martz: 2 years
Open
OC(s) Background:
Turner: HC, Illinois Fighting Illini, 1997 - 2004; OC, CHI,2005 - 2009
Martz: OC, DET, 06 - 07; OC, SF, 08;
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Turner: fired at end of 2009 season; WR coach, IND, 2010, QB coach, 2011 - present
Martz: retired at the end of 2011 season
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Bob Bratkowski: 4 years
Jay Gruden: 2011 - present
OC(s) Background:
Bratkowski: OC for CIN since 2001
Gruden: HC, Tuskers (UFL), 2010
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Bratkowski: fired at the end of 2010 season, currently OC for JAX
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Rob Chudzinski: 2 years
Brian Daboll: 2 years
(No OC for 2011, as Shurmer is calling the offensive plays)
OC(s) Background:
Chudzinski: SD TE coach, 05-06
Daboll: QB coach, NE, 06-08
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Chudzinski: SD TE and Asst. HC, 2009-11, OC, CAR, present
Daboll: 2010, ?, OC, MIA, 2011
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Jason Garrett: 2007 - present (he is both HC and OC as of 2011)
OC(s) Background:
Garrett: QB coach, MIA, 05-06
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Rick Dennison: 2 years
Mike McCoy: 2009 - present
OC(s) Background:
Dennison: OC, DEN, 06; OL coach, DEN, 01-05;
McCoy: Various offensive positions for CAR, 2000-08
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Dennison: OC, HOU, hired in 2010
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Mike Martz: 1 year
Jim Colletto: 1 year
Scott Linehan: 2009 - present
OC(s) Background:
Martz: HC, ST, 2000-05; OC, DET, 06
Colletto: OL coach, BAL, 1999-05; OL coach, DET, 06;
Linehan: HC, Rams, 2006 - 4 games of 08
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Martz: OC, SD, 2008; OC, CHI, 2010; retired
Colletto: retired
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Joe Philbin: 5 years
Open
OC(s) Background:
Philbin: Asst. OL coach, 04-05; OL coach, 06
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Philbin: HC, MIA, hired 1/12
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Mike Sherman: 1 year
Kyle Shanahan: 2 years
Rick Dennison: 2010 - present
OC(s) Background:
Sherman: HC/GM, Packers, 2001 - 04; HC Packers 05; Offense coach, HOU, 06
Shanahan; WR coach, HOU, 06 - 07
Dennison: OC, DEN, 06-08; ?
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Sherman: HC, Texas A & M, 11/07
Shanahan: OC, WAS, 2010 - present
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Tom Moore: 5 years
OC(s) Background:
Moore: OC, IND, 1998 - 2008
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Moore: Named Senior OC, IND, 09; Offensive Consultant, NYJ, 2011
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Dirk Koetter: 5 years
Bob Bratkowski: Hired 1/12
OC(s) Background:
Koettner: HC, Arizona State, 2001-06
Bratkowski: OC CIN 2001-10
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Hired by ATL 1/12 as new OC
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Mike Solari: 1 year
Chan Gailey: 1 year + (fired at beginning of 2009 season - Todd Haley called the offense in 09
Charlie Weis: 1 year
Bill Muir: 2011 - present
OC(s) Background:
Solari: OL coach, KC; OC, 2006 season
Gailey: left the NFL and returned to Georgia Tech as HC for 1 year; fired
Weis: HC at Notre Dame, 05-09
Muir: OC, TB, fired at the end of 08 season; OL coach, KC, 2009-10
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Solari: 2008-09, OL coach, SEA; 2010, OL coach, 49ers
Gailey; 2009 - out of football; 2010, HC BUF
Weis: left to be OC at Univ. of Fla; became HC at Univ. of Kansas in 2011
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Cam Cameron: HC, but called offensive plays
Dan Henning: 3 years
Brian Daboll: 2011 - present
OC(s) Background:
Cameron: OC, SD, 02-06
Henning: OC, CAR 02-07
Daboll: QB coach, NYJ, 07-08; OC, CLE, 09-10
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Cameron: fired 2008, OC, BAL
Henning: fired 1/2011
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Darrell Bevell: 4 years
Bill Musgrave: 2011 - present
OC(s) Background:
Bevell: QB coach, GB, 03 - 05; OC, MIN, 2006 - 2010
Musgrave: QB coach, ATL, 06 - 09; also Asst. HC 10
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Bevell: OC, SEA, 2011 - present
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Josh McDaniels: OC/QB coach - 2 years
No OC named during 09-10; Belichick called the plays
Bill O’Brien: 1 year
Josh McDaniels: OC, hired 1/12
OC(s) Background:
McDaniels: QB coach, NE, 04-05; OC, NE, 06-07
O’Brien: Offensive Asst., NE, 07: QB coach, 08
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
McDaniels: HC, DEN, 09-10; OC, STL, 2011;
O’Brien: HC, Penn State, hired 12/11
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Doug Marrone: 2 years
Pete Carmichael, Jr.: 2009 - present
OC(s) Background:
Marrone: OC, NO, 2006;
Carmichael: QB coach, NO, 2006 - 08
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Marrone: HC, Syracuse University, 09- present
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Kevin Gilbride: 07 - present
OC(s) Background:
Gilbride: OC, PIT, 99-2000; OC BUF 02-03;
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Brian Schottenheimer: 5 years
Tony Sparano: hired 1/12
OC(s) Background:
Schottenheimer: OC NYJ 06;
Sparano: HC MIA 2008-11
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Schottenheimer :
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Greg Knapp: 2 years
Ted Tollner: 1 year ("Passing game coordinator")
Hue Jackson: 1 year
Al Saunders: 2011 - present
OC(s) Background:
Knapp: OC, ATL, 04-06
Tollner: QB coach/asst. OC, 49ers, fired 12/08
Jackson: OC, ATL, 07; QB coach, BAL, 08-09;
Saunders: OC, STL, 08, Offensive Consultant, BAL, 09-10
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Knapp: OC, SEA, 09; QB coach, HOU
Tollner: demoted for Hue Jackson; fired by Hue Jackson in 2011
Jackson: promoted to HC 2011
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Marty Mornhinweg: 2007 - present
OC(s) Background:
Asst. HC, PHI
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Bruce Arians: 07 - 11
Open
OC(s) Background:
Arians: OC, CLE, 01-03; WR coach, Steelers, 04-06
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Retired
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Greg Olson: 1 year
Al Saunders: 1 year
Pat Shurmer: 2 years
Josh McDaniels: 1 year
Brian Schottenheimer: hired 1/12
OC(s) Background:
Olson: OC, DET, 2005; OC, STL, 06
Saunders: Asst. HC, WAS, 06-07
Shurmer: QB coach, PHI, 1999-2008
McDaniels: OC, NE, 06-08; HC, DEN, 09-10;
Schottenheimer: OC, NYJ
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Olson: OC, TB, 2009 - 11, QB coach, JAX
Saunders: Offensive Consultant, BAL, 09-10; OC, OAK, 11 - present
Shurmer: HC, CLE, 2011 - present
McDaniels: OC, NE, 2012
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Clarence Shelmon: 5 years
Open
OC(s) Background:
RB coach for several teams, inc. DAL and SEA
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Retired after 2011 season
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Jim Hostler: 1 year
Mike Martz: 1 year OC, SF, 08;
Jimmy Raye: 1 year +
Mike Johnson: 1 year
Greg Roman: 2011 - present
OC(s) Background:
Hostler: QB coach, 49ers, 05-06
Martz: HC, STL, 2000 - 05; OC, DET, 06 - 07
Raye: RB coach, NYJ, 06-08
Johnson: WR coach, BAL, 06-07; QB coach, 49ers, 09;
Roman: Asst. HC, Stanford, 09-10
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Hostler: fired at end of 07; WR coach, BAL
Martz: fired, didn’t coach in 09; OC, CHI, 10-11
Raye: fired at beginning of 2010 season; no further jobs
Johnson: not retained at end of 2010: OC, UCLA, 2011
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Gil Haskell: 2 years
Greg Knapp: 1 year
Jeremy Bates: 1 year
Darrell Bevell: 2011 - present
OC(s) Background:
Haskell: OC, SEA, 2000-08
Knapp: OC, OAK, 07-08
Bates: WR/RB coach, DEN, 07-08; OC DEN 09
Bevell: OC MIN 06 - 10
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Haskell: Hired as "Senior Advisor to President" by CLE in 2010
Knapp: QB coach, HOU
Bates: fired by Pete Carroll
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Bill Muir: 2 years
Jeff Jagodzinski: 1 year
Greg Olson: 2 years
Open
OC(s) Background:
Muir: OC, OL coach, TB, 2002 - 2008
Jagodzinski: OC, GB, 2006: HC, Boston College, 07 - 08
Olson: OC, STL, 06-07
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Muir: OL coach, KC, 2009 - 10; OC, OL coach,KC, 2011 - present
Jagodzinski: HC, Omaha Nighthawks, UFL, 2010
Olson: fired 1/12
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Norm Chow: 1 year
Mike Heimerdinger: 3 years
Chris Palmer: 2011 - present
OC(s) Background:
Chow: OC, USC, 2001-04; OC, TEN, 05 - 07;
Heimerdinger: Asst. HC, DEN, 06-07; OC, NYJ, 05
Palmer: QB coach, NYG, 07-09; HC, Hartford Colonials (UFL), 2010
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Chow: fired by TEN; OC, UCLA, 08 - 10; OC, Utah, 2011
Heimerdinger: fired 2/11; died 9/11
Offensive Coordinator(s) 2007 - present; tenure
Sherman Smith: 2 years
No OC named
Kyle Shanahan: 2010 - present
OC(s) Background:
Smith: Asst. Head Coach, TEN, 06 - 07
Shanahan: OC, HOU, 08-09
Changes (if any) and where the OC went:
Smith: RB coach, SEA, 2009 - present
61 comments
|
Add comment
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Holy Cow Momma!
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
So who do you fancy?
It’s surprising to me how few people there seem to be to choose from, although of course adding position coaches to the mix opens things up quite a lot…
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 23, 2012 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
First...
…Great job Ms. Rollett; the sheer magnitude of information is daunting but you summarize it well.
Second: my gut tells me the Steelers are going to promote from within, most likely Fichtner (now that Mr. Wilson is in hospital), and Tomlin will be taking a more active role in play calling. I base this primarily on the fact that Ben’s intransigence with being coached in the past, combined with his displeasure at Arians’ departure (however that may have occured) may prove to be too volatile to risk bringing in an outsider.
If Ben is truly the “team” player he holds himself out to be, I would want to see him be the first Steeler to openly embrace whoever is selected, once it is announced; if he doesn’t, I fear the off season will be rife with media speculation about disharmony in the locker room.
Oh well, what would an off-season be, without some Steeler drama?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
+1
I have agree with what you have to say here.
Kudos Rebecca. Another fine effort.
I wonder if a Fitchtner promotion will lead to Charlie Batch becoming QB coach? I would be good with that one.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 23, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
wondering
This same thing myself
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Jan 24, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Part of me agrees with you
about the in-house hiring, and part of me wonders if, given that the change clearly came from the top, Rooney isn’t wanting to clean house a bit. It’s a tricky proposition either way – a promotion from within, particularly Fichtner, might well be someone that Ben has pretty much under his thumb, but imposing someone without regard for Ben’s likes or dislikes could, as you state, create some real locker room problems. Either way they go, I’d say that the way Ben is handled, and the way he chooses to handle himself, for that matter, is key.
I note, in passing, that he’s not only taking the Arians with him to Hawaii but the Fichtners.
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 23, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry -
“he” being Ben…
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 23, 2012 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
That is interesting and I would not hire Fitchner just because of it
I want someone who won’t be a yes man with Ben.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 23, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
I hear you,
but we’re making assumptions. Ben may have a sufficiently different relationship with, and respect for, Fichtner that it would work just fine. But I would tend to agree with you. If Fichtner is hired, apparently either the FO doesn’t agree, or doesn’t consider it a problem.
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 23, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
You are absolutely correct
But for me looking in from the outside, I would want to know that Fitchner is his own man with his own ideas before I would think about that move, I want to see improvement, not status quo. I fear that an internal hire would give us the same offense we want to see improved and that makes me all itchy. I don’t think that we have had a bad offense, I just think there is a lot of room for improvement of scheme and better use of the various weapons at the disposal of the offense, so an internal promotion really scares me because promotions from within very rarely results in outward change.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 23, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
report on NFL.com says the Steelers are going to promote from within, either Kugler or Fitchner
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Booo. :-(
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 24, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I find the whole retiring-releasing of BA a bit odd..
and hirng within another oddity to me…. seems were short Kirby(god bless him n his family), so will be looking for a RB coach, then to promote within means an unexperienced OC, and as result, another new position coach… all a mystery to me to tear apart a whole offensive coaching staff….
by OR69faithfull on Jan 24, 2012 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
Hopefully the correct decisons will be made, I will hold out on judgement (even if they take the ones I favor)
Until the season is complete, it will be hard to gauge what we have going forward until we have a year in the books.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 24, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
have to agree
and we have to wonder if hired from within if we are going to see more of the same. Ben needs a coach to put him in his place once in a while.
How do you know that the problem is coaches not putting him in his place? And how do you know he needs one who will?
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
So, can we get the answer? Or is it just “you’re wrong” or “clever” quips in lieu of making a point?
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
from your mouth exactly or your little fingers
But execution is something that wasn’t very prominent in Arians’ offense.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan – nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan – nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan – nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan – um yeah, about that…
by StoneColdSteel on Jan 22, 2012 10:39 AM PST upreplyactions
.
I don’t agree with that, once the call goes in, it’s the player’s responsibility. If they couldn’t make it work, it’s on them. If Ben would take the open man underneath instead of forcing it deep, it could work.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
by FrankWyt on Jan 22, 2012 10:52 AM PST upreplyactions
just adding to your quote Frankie
As discussed much before in alot of these blogs. And this is one main subject that the majority agree, including you, that Ben forces the ball downfield deep instead of taking the open man or the check offs. So, in reality, Ben needs to be “put in his place about this”," reigned in", “disciplined on this” , “corrected” or whatever terminology you want to use.
Do you get it? Or, are you going to go against your own words?
And you think that there is some magic OC that is going to “put him in his place”?This guy will be able to do what Cowher, Whisenhunt, Arians, Tomlin, and possibly even the Rooney family couldn’t do? Three of those first four guys are pretty known hard asses, so what is it exactly that you think is going to happen?
The check down thing is an issue, but also one coaches can live with, because outside of this season, the good far outweighed the bad.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Good thing you always have insightful and pertinent comments, and are able to carry out a discussion beyond rambling a bunch of nothing.
I’ll just assume that what you mean is “I don’t know, I’m just guessing” for both questions I originally asked. Lesson learned.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Right!
coming from someone who says outlandish comments just to piss people off. Talk about pertinent comments. Hard to carry on a discussion with someone who is on here to do that.
So no answer then? Sweet. Should have just asked for the usual I guess.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
speaking of usual......another frankwyt post
did you happen to look up what I was talking about? Yeah. I’m not the sensitive type, and i’m definitely not one to do the flag thing, but even I was kind of shocked by this guy’s behavior. And that may sound like a shock from someone who is guilty of saying some outlandish things to piss people off that I felt were doing nothing but trying to piss me off (which got me a stern warning). But even as horrible as either John or Michael thinks I am right now, I would never treat anyone like mikebb did. I know what I said was wrong, but in the context, and the context of the thread, I’d like to believe it was at least understandable. John did say he might unban him in a couple weeks, but I have a feeling if that happens, he’ll just be worse than he was before the ban.
This message will self destruct
Who the hell’s interrupting my Kung Fu? – Black Dynamite
With two D’s, for a double dose of this pimpin’
by FrankWyt on Dec 9, 2011 8:36 PM PST upreplyactions
I REALLY, REALLY wanted Norv Turner. Miraculously he managed to keep his job, so that isn't happening (it was a long shot anyway with no connections to Pitt)
I also realize that there are likely candidates that we won’t hear about because they already have jobs and aren’t being speculated about. There are also guys who are likely untouchable like Gruden and Billick who won’t settle for OC and command big $$. I don’t know enough about the guys under BA to give an honest opinion on them, but I am a bit wary of hiring an “underling” simply because I do want to see change, I do not want to see the same offense next year and I think hiring from within we are much more likely to see that same offense that most of us have issue with.
Out of the folks who are obviously in the running, I like Haley (I know he has a reputation as an Ass, but I think he has the will to be firm with Ben and I think that is needed). Mike Sherman intrigues me and 3rd on my list of available would probably be Hugh Jackson. For the record, I think Jackson is getting a lot of undeserved flack from the Raiders situation, lets be honest, the Raiders have been running a Circus the last 2 decades, I seriously doubt anything coming out of their mouths to the media. The reality is that the boy out there is out matched and has no idea what to do with a football team and Jackson was around when his father would berate him for being a football idiot in front of his staff – Jackson had to go for the young Davis to save face and feel like he actually had a say so with the football operations.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 23, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
Don't know much about Hugh Jackson, other than his team played hard for him...
the Raiders have been running a Circus the last 2 decades, I seriously doubt anything coming out of their mouths to the media
I think Al Davis was proven right with his comments about Kifflen though.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
You may be right about Kiffen, but Davis had been a mess for a long time
and from the things I have read about the organization, he taught the son that was going to get the throne absolutely nothing about football and regularly belittled him in front of staff. For someone that was so “Raiders for Life” (literally), I think that is a huge disservice to the fans of the franchise. I thought for a long time that Al Davis needed to go in order for the Raiders to be successful, but it may turn out to be an even worse scenario than they had previously.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 23, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
one has to wonder
given all the turn over, if its not the grass is greener on the other side syndrome….both by Oc,’s and team management… so many of the variables that go into being successful as a Oc are not within their control… My problem is I dont fancy any of them.. I suppose if I had to pick Russ Grimm would be my first choice of “known quantities” .. not sure he would be interested in the job given us passing on him for HC.. I only hope they hire someone “fresh” … if not hired from within.. my problem from hiring from within for Oc…will that hire really be that much different then BA .. ?. Hopefully they have an inside track on whom they want…
I'm quite sure it is
a “grass being greener” sort of deal. That’s not to say that change isn’t sometimes necessary, just that it probably is a way to shift the burden of blame around a lot of times. When I have a chance I think I’m going to look at some of the Football Outsiders rankings under various OCs and see whether a change appears to result in a substantial improvement for a reasonable percentage of the time. I’m guessing not…
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 23, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
That would be
my guess…..there just are not enough good ones to go around, and the ones who are worth their salt are soon offered head coaching jobs, qualified or not… Norv Turner comes to mind….very good offensive mind, but not necessarily as successful as a head coach
by OR69faithfull on Jan 23, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
That is why I wanted him, and everything pointed to this being the year he got canned, it didn't happen. :-(
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 23, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Bravo, Rebecca
That was an incredible research project you pulled off. Very interesting indeed. Thanks for all the hard work you put into it.
+1
And sorry, I meant to give you props in my reply to you (Rebecca) above, and forgot to add that piece. Great information and lots of it.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 23, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Great job, Momma.
Sorrily the massive amount of information only confused me and brought me no closer to my choice for Ariens’ sucessor. I fear I must leave the choice to the Rooneys.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction
"Most of the time, the most physical team has a chance to win. That is not a reality we shy away from." --Mike Tomlin
by madanthonywayne on Jan 23, 2012 10:16 AM EST reply actions
Magnifique, Momma!
Truly outstanding work; we are without a doubt the most cuddled bloggers in SBNation because of such timely and in-depth work.
My two cents’: my sentimental choice would be Tom Clements, whom we used to watch up here in the CFL. The unknown would be how he gets along with Tomlin and, of course, Ben.
Peter King notes this morning that Jim Caldwell and MT coached together on Dungy’s last staff in TB. Not sure how I feel about that, especially since Caldwell did not exactly wow us by standing up to a strong-minded Pro Bowl QB who likes to function as his own OC.
Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH
by Flying Polamalus on Jan 23, 2012 10:33 AM EST reply actions
We need a new OC like...
…the one in New England, Bill O’Brien, who got into “his high and mighty” Tom Brady’s face, but with whom peace was quickly made. Someone who will call Ben out when needed, but will let “Ben be Ben” within the greater confines of the game plan.
Todd Haley, I think, would be too confrontational, and would act like he had something to prove. I like the idea of Clements. Not that sure of Caldwell, but Ben ain’t no Peyton Manning when it comes to dissecting defensive plays at the line of scrimmage, so Caldwell might have more voice in the matter than he did at Indy.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
+1
But we must also chose from those that are available, I doubt O’Brein would leave NE for PITT (Not to be sarcastic, just saying we have to chose from the available candidates).
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 23, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
O Brien already left NE, to become head coach at Penn State
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I would argue that is a more prestigious move than for the Steelers OC...
Probably nmake a lot more money too.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 24, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Great piece of research. One update – the Bears have named Mike Tice (former HC) to be their OC, although he is in the running for the Oakland HC job.
by steelers-chicago on Jan 23, 2012 11:20 AM EST reply actions
Thanks -
I will note that in the article.
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 23, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
markov transition matrix
with a lot of data of this type, if you set this up as a Markov prob matrix it might easier to analyze.
then again you might find this totally irrelevant.
with the assumption we know how it works...
^means nothing to me…
^ Means even less. And it isn’t worth trying to explain, I am not getting any credit for this course…
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 23, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Neo...
…was the transition in the matrix?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Haley would be great because he’ll hold his ground (sorry Ben – you don’t get to play injured and hurt your team for your ego). Caldwell… I dunno. Seems like Manning kind of ruled the roost in Indy like Ben under Arians. Clement would be interesting, but at what point does Tomlin gets his own stamp on his team and not Cowher’s?
by chicos_pants on Jan 23, 2012 2:03 PM EST via mobile reply actions
but at what point does Tomlin gets his own stamp on his team and not Cowher’s?
2008, when he won a home championship game.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Norm Chow
is now Head Coach at University of Hawaii.
Nice work on this piece. Very extensive, and it fits in with Mr. Gleason’s argument that OCs are often easy to blame for failure in the NFL.
Thanks -
will correct.
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 24, 2012 6:51 AM EST up reply actions
LeBeau is who needs to go also
This is great work. And IMHO I think Arians has become too predictable and that is why he was forced out. But also IMHO, Dick LeBeau is as much to blame as anyone. You can argue that Pitt has a top 5 D every yr under LeBeau and that is warranted. You can argue that they had a good Defensive year and that is warranted BUT I think we should take note of a few simple facts. 1, Lebeau constantly does the opposite and gives the Qb’s the best chance to succeed. Case in point why we never beat a good passing QB unless that offense just decides not to block. Brady, until this year we never beat him. Also, Rodgers in the Superbowl. He plays zone allowing them to pick us apart nearly everytime we play a good Qb. OR he plays man with an overrated #1 in Ike Taylor and a terrible #2 in William Gay and gives bad throwing Qb’s like Flaaco and Tebow the maximum chance to succeed. Secondly, his philosophy of attack and keep everything in front of you only means you allow the O to move the ball at will if you are willing to throw 5 yrd outs all game because he routinely lines up 1 if not both corners 7-10 yrds off the ball. He only really has a couple of stunts that he runs even though he is supposedly a mad genius and has so many different blitzes and it’s soooo difficult to pick up but yet we rarely see pressure against good teams. We maximize against bad ones. It’s almost like the game has gotten passed him. I know many of you will say we had the #1 pass D and that’s true BUT we also have some of the dumbest play calling at the most crucial time. 9 guys within 4 yds of the line of scrimmage when we almost always have a top 5 run D out of our base 3-4? That’s stupid and only opens it up to what happened in OT. For someone so smart, that is beyond stupid.
I believe Ryan was hired as a head coach, not fired. Why ruin a good thing?
If you were the owner of the Steelers and one of the things on your off season “to do list” was replacing Dick, you would probably be the owner of the Redskins or some other horrible franchise.
Teams that are constantly firing their coaches are usually the worst teams year to year. When every player needs to learn new assignments and a new playbook the whole team comes into the season less prepared then they were the previous season.
this is true,
Im not implying the steelers fire DL, and truely think Butler would be promoted anyway. I dont see things changing dramatically even if Lebeau would go. That is what I was implying when Ryan left. Baltimore still has a top defense and they have an aggresive plan. Ultimately it comes down to the head coach and the type of D he wants to run.
Great job
I guess Pittsburgh isn’t the only town that had a hate/hate relationship with the OC over the past half decade.
Something to say? Choose one of these options to log in.
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
"Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history."
Art Rooney Jr.
"Level-headed thinking." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
