Butler over Lebeau
I found today that Butler will remain as our LB coach, waiting for Coach dad to retire. Now, i love Lebeau, he is a genious. but for the last few years there is something wrong with the D. Yes I know Top 3, but at the end only counts the last game you played, and usually the D has played terrible in that final game. Maybe its time for Lebeau to turn over the crown to the next in line. Butler is a Steeler since 2003, he is the one that develop Timmons, Woodley, Harrison, etc. I don't know if Tomlin is afraid of what could happen with the team if he fire Lebeau, but at least he must try to convince him to retire, and let Butler contribute with a fresh approach. And i really love to know what Steeler Nation thinks about it.
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wow
so you’d throw out Lebeau because of the last game played. I guess the fact there were no D-linemen available to rotate at altitude made no difference?
Butler may be a great DC, or he may wind up with brain cramps on game day. He has potential – that is all he has at this time.
Lebeau IS a great DC and has proven it for years.
By this logic, we should trade Roethlisberger to the colts for their #1 pick. After all, Luck might be a HOF caliber QB someday…
its not just the denver game
how may QB has own our D. our current D, is not made for what the game has evolved to. Lebeau is a great DC, but he is obsolete now. I love the guy, and he is one of the reasons the steelers has been so successful in the last years, but we need to renew of die. Put a statue of Lebeau in the stadium entrance, but i think its time to step down.
Brady would disagree with that statement this year - Lebeau owned him.
How about another idea – lets cut Roethlisberger! He couldn’t score in the final drive to beat Denver. What a bum!
Troy didn’t get a pick in Denver this year – cut him.
Harrison didn’t get a sack – cut him.
Woodley made no impact – cut him.
And the biggest no brainer – cut Ike because, wow what a bad game he had.
Thankfully the argument is mute because the team isn’t run by a bunch of knee jerk reactions. There isn’t a coach or player in this league that could stand up to the scrutiny you are dishing out. Anything less than perfections ALWAYS is unacceptable and we should cut bait and just roll with potential. Following your line of thinking would keep a team high in potential every year, because I guarantee you that team would be picking top 3 every draft.
What have you done for me lately?
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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Voted no - A great debate that deserves more than this summary execution
After a few years of viewing Steeler games enhanced by the “thoughtful discussion” at BTSC, I have come to believe that the Lebeau D is a thing of beauty, like an exotic car, but that it does not withstand very well the rigors of the typical season AND requires such a continuous stream of highly-trained, top-physically performing personel as to render it vulnerable to the vagaries of today’s NFL, year-to-year.
For instance, it is generally accepted that any injury to the incumbent starting NT, SS and either or both OLB, decreases exponentially the efficiency of the whole defensive squad. We have won despite injuries at DE, ILB, CB and even FS (although Clark was sorely missed in Denver); we saw with Troy, Snack, Deebo and Woodley missing significant time the last two seasons what happens when they do. With three of the four above-mentioned incumbents on the wrong side of 30, this reliance will be tested sorely in the next few years, driving a lot of our draft discussions here.
The adaptability of coach Lebeau within games, or for longer than an exceptional matchup (read NE game this year) to changing conditions lead us to believe that, more than other 3-4 teams, we will live or die with his system. It’s just a matter of discussion as to how long the “zombie state” i.e. the length of time Mr. Goodell’s parity-driven NFL will keep us down next cycle, will last.
Coach Dad, as he’s affectionately known in these parts, will turn 75 this September. Here’s to hoping that the deal with Butler will allow coach Lebeau to step down gracefully, and on his own schedule, as long as succession planning discussion is allowed. Coach Butler is the first part of such; the second might be for the FO to start debating internally the adaptability of future acquisitions (draft, FAs) to a defensive system that may have to evolve into something less exotic than the aforementioned exotic car.
The ride was great while it lasted, and we may yet view a few very interesting spins around the track over the next few years; I just don’t see the successors to Snack, Troy and Woodley/Deebo out there yet. Rather than see coach Lebeau have to change his marvelous ways in coming up with this system, I’d rather see him riding off into the sunset with one last ring next season, with succession solidly established.
Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH
by Flying Polamalus on Jan 31, 2012 3:07 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Well
When was the last time Pittsburgh’s defense stopped someone when it REALLY mattered:
2007: Jacksonville
2008: Arizona
2009: Oakland
2010: Green Bay
2011: Denver
With the exception of “The Drive II”, which saved the Steelers in SB XVIII, the defense has not stopped an opponent from scoring at the point of make/break, with the season on the line, in the past 5 years. Now, I’m sure that everyone deserves some of that blame, but eventually the buck has to stop with the guy calling the plays, no?
All I see out of that is two Super Bowl wins in six years. IDGaF about the rest.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
by Riddlah. on Jan 31, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You just said all that needs to be said. Thank you for stating it so perfectly.
by jedmiller71 on Jan 31, 2012 3:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree....
since we’re talking about the defense and we’re ignoring the offense, the fact that the offense was required to win the game on one of the greatest drives in Super Bowl history after the defense failed to hold a lead is irrelevant.
/sarcasm
Nice
Compelling rebuttal…
We are both stating facts, aren’t we? I’m not griping about the obvious success that Pittsburgh has enjoyed over the past decade, I’m merely pointing out that the defense has not held when it has mattered most and asking who should shoulder the blame for those (relative) failures.
by pistil_stamen on Feb 1, 2012 3:38 AM EST up reply actions
Most DC's lose there last game.
11/12 playoff teams included.
Around 10/20 of the, I’ll go 7/20 due to some teams already wrapping up the season.
So 21/32 DC’s lose there last game of the season.
If you buy a foreign made product you give money to a person who will not be buying an American made product that you get paid to make. Think about it next time you're at the store.
I think my math is wrong, but point is ok.
If you buy a foreign made product you give money to a person who will not be buying an American made product that you get paid to make. Think about it next time you're at the store.
I can not believe this is even a conversation
Say I grant you all of Lebeau’s deficiencies. What are you expecting out of Butler that will improve this defense? I still have not read 1 comment telling me something to expect from him that Lebeau can not do.
To improve the pass D that got ripped up by elite QB’s? Oh wait, they were number 1 in that category this year. How about the huge games the D DID win?
The 2 Ravens playoff games, the Indy playoff game, the Denver AFCCG, Dallas in 08, ravens in 08, how far should I go? I assure you the good list goes on a lot longer than the bad.
by jedmiller71 on Jan 31, 2012 3:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions
This is I believe one of the greatest story in Steelers History actually.
A smooth transition from Coach Dad to Butler, what a marvelous guy Lebeau is.
"Everytime NE Patriots lose, Football wins", myself
Your post is a textbook example of Sophistry...
…which, for your edification, is: sophistry:
1. a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.
2. a false argument; sophism.
Your argument is a false argument (definition #2), because there is no need to eliminate LeBeau in favor of Butler, because the succession has apparently been agreed upon, maybe not to the timetable of your liking, but its not your call.
Also, your argument is fallacious (definition #1), because if the defense is to blame for the calamity of that “final game”, would not Butler be just as liable for the performance as LeBeau? He is afterall, one of the coaches on the defense, in particular the linebackers.
Your argument is specious, because
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Well, I was going to continue...
…but I think you get my point.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
I doubt he gets it
but great point.
"Leave the gun. Bring the Canolis."
well said
and thank you for bringing logic to bear on this conversation.
The problem I have with our coaching staff, and that is our entire coaching staff, is that they never seem to make significant at halftime. I’m not saying we should fire all of the coaches and start over, but I would like to see better adjustment in the future
I'm your huckleberry
Anyone who thinks the D
Lost the SB to the Packers obviously didn’t watch the game.
"Leave the gun. Bring the Canolis."
No.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
"Oh... you're a northerner. What exactly do they call 'you people' from Pittsburgh?" "They just call us LUCKY."
I think LeBeau should be allowed to coach until he's at least 82
provided there are no scandals/crimes occuring beneath his supervision.
Stay thirsty my friends.
by SteelerMessican on Jan 31, 2012 8:56 PM EST reply actions
LeBeau
I think he’s a bit stubborn at times. I think there are games when instead of changing up a couple things to adjust to the opponent’s offense, he stays the course and waits for the defense to make a play and turn the tide. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn’t. This was a strange year. Typically, it takes a QB like Brees, Manning, Brady, or Rodgers to beat the Steelers. This year, they beat Brady, but it was Shaub, Flacco, Tebow, and Alex Smith that won. Weird. The Denver loss stings, it really does, but at the same time, it was a blessing. The team was really beat up.
Could a split work????
Is anyone aware of a situation ever where two men split def play calling?
Not sure how that would work. Series by series or first half 2nd half. Would be good to see him get some type of shot at it. However, I have a felling the front office knows what they have in him.
Yup...
…the Good Bruce Arians and the Bad Bruce Arians…and you saw the results.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Love him but....
I wonder if a fresh approach would be better. I watched Arizona defense under our former assistant. He called creative blitzes to create pressure with a mediocre front 7. They sacked a QB 6 or 7 times and we played same team next week and had zero ( cant recall which game)
When is the last time we stunted and had a wide open guy on the QB? Not often. I think coach relies on talent and not scheme. We don’t give up a lot of points. But late game collapses cannot be ignored.

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