Steelers Confirm Mike Tomlin is Interviewing Todd Haley Tuesday
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 3:34 PM EST
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PrintDespite the ramblings of naysayers, Steelers coach Mike Tomlin is reportedly interviewing Todd Haley for the team's offensive coordinator position.
The news came on the Steelers own web site, the first story appearing on there referring to the job opening since a story with quotes from Tomlin after former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians' alleged retirement.
To make the issue more compelling, Tribune-Review reporter Mark Kaboly Tweeted Tuesday afternoon that it's "very uncharacteristic" of the Steelers to post such information on its web site.
That lends credence to the notion the interview may really only be a formality.
Haley's father, Dick Haley, was Pittsburgh's director of player personnel from 1971-90, making the story a bit more newsworthy for Steelers fans. But Haley's name is a hot one, and judging by the comments from Steelers fans (with Chiefs fans weighing in on the matter), many seem to support the idea of Haley taking over the Steelers offense under Tomlin.
From Steelers.com:
Coach Mike Tomlin continued his search for an offensive coordinator when he interviewed Todd Haley today at the team's practice facility.
The Steelers are looking for an offensive coordinator to replace Bruce Arians.
Haley, 45 on Feb. 28, most recently worked in the NFL as the coach of the Kansas City Chiefs. Hired there in 2009, Haley took the Chiefs to the AFC West title in 2010 but was fired 13 games into the 2011 season with Kansas City at 5-8.
Before being hired in Kansas City, Haley worked as an NFL assistant for four different teams over a 10-year span. He started as a wide receivers coach with the New York Jets in 1999; moved to Chicago to coach the Bears wide receivers in 2001; became the wide receivers coach/passing game coordinator in Dallas in 2004; and then was hired as Arizona's offensive coordinator in 2007.
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What should we make of
the fact that this report is listed on the team website? Is this SOP, or does should this be an indication that the Steelers are VERY interested in Haley?
To be honest, I’m not sure of when there’s even precedent. I don’t remember if they even interviewed externally in 2007. I think they selected the internal candidate (Arians) as a way of keeping some continuity with the players in Tomlin’s first year.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
one way or the other
I’m sure we will find out soon enough
by Greig Clawson on Jan 31, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
Isn’t Haley known as, you know, a real asshole? Do we really want to deal with this guy?
Honestly, I wouldn’t hire him, but if the Steelers do then we should trust them.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
It’d be nice to be a Rooney…blind allegiance from all his brand’s fans…
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
lol well when you have the track record like they do
then you get that.
The trouble is building that track record.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
It’s constantly challenged, all the time. Right now, I think they’re putting a lot of capital on the table with this decision.
The team’s site did not report Butler was interviewing anywhere else. Butler ended up not leaving. It reported Haley is being interviewed. I really think it’s because they’re nearly certain they’ll offer him the job.
I haven’t heard Haley formally interviewing anywhere else, and I don’t think there are more than maybe one or two other jobs left. No OC position has the talent the Steelers have, so I’m guessing this was the plan all along.
Excuse me while I go throw up.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
lol
i’ll help clean up
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Why shouldn’t we trust them?
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
I don’t like Todd Haley. Obviously they don’t need my approval, but they aren’t privy to any kind of exclusive information that automatically dismisses all of my concerns.
My issues with him are valid, legitimate problems. If Haley is hired and he works out well, it will be because he is NOT doing any of the things I have a problem with, not because the Rooneys feel his past behavior is acceptable and want it to continue.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
My point is that if he is hired we should assume that they did the right thing, considering their amazing track record and all. I don’t like the guy either, but if the Steelers hire him it means one of two things:
1. No good OCs want to come here (very, very doubtful).
2. They like him and think he can run our offense with a lot of success.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
Everyone on this web site hates Bruce Arians! How can you bring their amazing track record into it?
Outside of that, yes, No. 1 is definitely valid (i.e. it will attract the best). What I’m worried about is they’re basing it on reputation. Maybe that’s the best they can do, though.
Maybe I just don’t like the guy.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Have faith Neal
There is no guarantee that Haley ends up a Steeler, but why would that be so bad? He is a pretty decent offensive mind who has shown he can get the best out of his players if they buy into his system. Plus, I am looking forward to someone on the sideline showing some Cowher-like emotion again. It’ll be fun watching Ben getting yelled at for throwing the ball deep and getting intercepted (which is bound to happen at least 3 times).
Could be good to get a guy like that on the coaching staff, since everyone else is liked. Someone has to be the bad guy…
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jan 31, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
"his system"
I donno do we really need a new system? With less injuries we may have made a pretty deep run in the playoffs. What is “his system” anyway? I don’t watch many Cheifs games.
"Kompromise, my friend, is the essence of diplomacy, and diplomacy is the kornerstone of love... sweeeeeet looooOOOve"
Maybe I just don’t like the guy.
Does anyone?
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
I'm with you, sir. He seems like a poor leader and a real twit
Any clue what happened to our alleged interst in the Green Bay QB coach?
I'm your huckleberry
We are interesting in Tom Clements
but is he interested in us?
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
I don't like him
but I trust the Rooneys and willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until they are proven to have made a mistake.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
unlikeable, but ...
he seems like a jackass, but he’s had success in the past with lesser talent and he’s young enough to get better … let’s get a guy on the rise, not a guy who’s treading water
will definitely give the FO the benefit of the doubt here if this is their choice
You are not alone
An OC with attitude issues who makes BA looks like a proponent of the power run game isn’t my idea of the direction the Rooneys have discussed in the past. The only thing I can think, if they aren’t hiring him, is that they are interviewing him as a favour to someone.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
"who makes BA looks like a proponent of power run game"
whaaaa?
Didn’t KC have the #1 rush attack just a year ago, or did I miss something?
He was pass happy in AZ because that was their strength and there run personnel was iffy. He was run happy in KC because Cassel isn’t a franchise QB. What makes you certain he won’t have a balanced attack if we can get the personnel to make our run game better?
did they?
Sorry I thought he was characterized as a pass 1st, 2nd and 3rd OC.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but
if they are hiring him as a favor, why would they be so public about it? Unlesssssss…. there is some deep sort of behind-the-scenes stuff going on here. Like they are trying to make Tom Clements jealous, so that he’ll interview. Or they are trying to help Haley get an offer from a different club, who will feel compelled to rush in with said offer when the Steelers are showing such public interest, and somebody owes Haley’s dad a big favor. Gosh, the possibilities are endless. Maybe we should have a contest : )
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 31, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I will leave that up to you
The winner gets to send in a photo of them self wearing a tin foil hat! or whatever reward you feel is appropriate.
I do wonder if the Brad Van Pelt thing is in case Fichtner wants out.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
lol
Sorry, it’s Alex Van Pelt. Please tell me I didn’t write Brad at all.
Brad(lee) Van Pelt was a QB at Colorado State a while back.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
It probably is alex
I am just old enough to think Brad was recent.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 1, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Hahaha...
Brad(lee) Van Pelt is a very close friend of a very close friend, and went to my rival high school. Very talented athlete, but a QB in the fashion of Tebow. He ran for more scores in high school than he passed, and when he played soccer, he’d crush guys into a heap. Strong, tough guy who’s dad played NFL ball.
Terrible NFL quarterback though.
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
Also
It could be Fichtner said eff you if you don’t hire me as OC I’m out of here. Tomlin then calls Fichtner’s bluff by contacting another QB coach while interviewing Haley.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'm in!
Could be, they want somebody for one year, because they really want to give the job to coach Kirby, when he recovers.
It may also be a way to help Ben “tweak” his game too. Ben would probably be down with anything Kirby wanted to do, after a year with Haley.
"They timed it perfectly, they just went too soon." - Darrell Waltrip commenting on an illegal restart.
Who?
What I’m worried about is they’re basing it on reputation. Maybe that’s the best they can do, though.
The Rooneys?
Fans on this site?
That guy in the mirror?
All of the above?
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
The Rooneys and Tomlin are basing their decision to possibly hire Todd Haley as their offensive coordinator on Haley’s reputation.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
And what are you basing your perspective on which is different than that?
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
good points -
Haley had a great passing attack in AZ, then 2 years later led the NFL in rushing with KC … that’s pretty damn good balance. And he’s still learning new tricks.
I’m basing it on the perspective that he’s an ego-maniacal tool…perhaps that’s another rep he has.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
+7001
(looks kinda like “tool”) :)
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
It’d be nice to be a Rooney…blind allegiance from all his brand’s fans…
The price of such blind obedience is having a fan base that can be quite vocal and vitrolic when they are not happy with the decisions made, which the Rooney’s are sensitive to, even if they make the decisions anyway.
Exhibit A – hiring Tomlin when it appeared all but fait acompli that Grimm had the job.
Exhibit B – hiring Noll, when at the time the “thing to do” was to bring in a successful college coach with a proven track record.
I was anti-Haley before today, but having read some comments from Chief fans, have admitted to self (who is quite opinionated) that maybe there’s more smoke than fire. At the end of the day, can only take the position: “In Rooney’s We Trust” until proven otherwise.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
+1
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction
"Most of the time, the most physical team has a chance to win. That is not a reality we shy away from." --Mike Tomlin
by madanthonywayne on Jan 31, 2012 7:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm leery
But ultimately, the leader of the team is Tomlin.
Gilbride ran a run-and-shoot in San Diego, was fired, became the Steelers offensive coordinator, and ran the ball. Coordinators work a game plan at the direction of the head coach. It’s Tomlin’s job to smooth Rooney and Colbert over, and sell them on the direction he sees fit. If he gets them to trust him, and has Haley do what he’s supposed to do, I have faith the team will succeed.
If that's true...
Then it would be nice to know Tomlins take on offensive direction.
Because if the O.C. Is an extension of the HC’s vision/preference, the Arians was even more stubborn than we imagined, or Tomlin has a vision that doesn’t jive with the Rooneys.
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
by Fifty-Eight on Feb 1, 2012 5:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wasn't his offense ok when Chuck Weis was the OC in KC, but soon went to shit after Haley tanked Chuck and called his own plays?
I pledge allegiance to the Terrible Towel and the only team in America, and to the franchise for which it stands, one nation under Rooney, indivisible, with the ability to crush you all.
"He was popping off down there the first time they were about to score. So you run your mouth, expect to get something. Everything's between the lines, so he got what he had coming. He was running his mouth and getting in the way of the train, and the train wasn't coming off the track."
-James Harrison on Kyle Orton
No it tanked when Weis decided to go to UF as OC
Weis basically quit on the team because the farther they went in the playoffs the later he would be able to begin recruiting, meeting the team ect.
I'm getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
"It would be tough for me to care less about their opinion, to be honest with you." Mike Tomlin
Not my call
nor likely anyone who posts on these boards but, other than a small minority, he hasn’t been on anyone’s wish list.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Really? You mean you aren’t choosing the Steelers next offensive coordinator? Why not?
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
I decided to delegate
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
So Arn passed the buck to you,
and you passed it to – who? ; )
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 31, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Well that is easy
I passed it to… oh what was that… shiny!… What were you saying?
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Squirrel!
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 31, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Where?!!??!?!?
A.D.D. means never having to finish a sentenc…
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
So... put on your tinfoil hats
Maybe he is being hired as a temp till Kirby is healthy enough to take over. If Haley does well he has a shot at a HC gig and Kirby will be the nice guy riding in to rescue the players from the clutches of the then departing OC!
Okay, you can remove you aluminum headgear.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Lets all hope that Kirby will once again be healthy enough to return to coaching
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 31, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
fingers crossed
and this is a scenario I could live with.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds good to me
I just don’t necessarily see Kirby returning in any capacity, 40% of the body is pretty serious stuff, I would be surprised to see him come back to coaching after he heals
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 31, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
The HC gig would be elsewhere btw
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
shucks, I'm late to the party again
I thought the contest was above! Hadn’t gotten this far down the thread, before having the same thought that you had.
When we win, I’ll concede the prize to you, since you did post it a day earlier. Big of me, yes, I know.
"They timed it perfectly, they just went too soon." - Darrell Waltrip commenting on an illegal restart.
I think people need to calm down
Has Haley appeared to be a real butt in the past? Yes.
Would the Rooneys hire him if they didn’t think that would change? No.
I trust the rooneys here.
They have earned that trust.
I love the Steelers.
+3
I took one point away. You are now up 3.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
*sniff* *sniff*
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
he's been a real butt as you say in the past
but I don’t think him changing is a requirement for them to hire him. The offense was bad in situational football in the red zone, time management, and avoiding losses in FG range. The line had penalties and blown assignments (on top of getting beat which will require some personnel changes). The QB tried hitting the home run instead of throwing it away when we were already in FG range on occasion that cost us points directly. The issues with time management at the end of the first half and games came up again and again…
The solution to these problems is to bring in someone who will hold them accountable. Haley is a candidate in part BECAUSE of that attitude, not in spite of it IMO.
Fair point, but you’re acting as if they can’t regress offensively.
It’s entirely possible Haley makes the offense worse. I’m on the fence whether I feel it will be, but the point is you can’t just assume they’ll stay where they are, and all someone needs to do is come in and fix the red zone.
That certainly needs to happen, but they’re going to start largely from scratch.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
that chance happens no matter who they hire
if the players don’t buy in, then the offense will regress.
I for one think that Haley and many other candidates can call a better game than Arians. That doesn’t mean that Haley won’t have faults, but Arians was horrible at making adjustments.
Why would they be starting largely from scratch? I would suspect that Haley will come in and learn the current play book – modify sections of it – and then move forward. There are areas that were horrible with the play calling and redzone, but that doesn’t mean the plays didn’t exist. It just means they weren’t called at the correct time. I don’t see them changing the system entirely. Some modifications to the run game, some to the redzone, and having an IQ above an insect in when to call what play would go a long way.
Ok, thank you, this is EXACTLY my point:
if the players don’t buy in, then the offense will regress.
I for one think that Haley and many other candidates can call a better game than Arians.
What difference does it make if he can call a good game? If the players don’t buy into what he’s selling them, he can’t POSSIBLY call a good play.
My issue with him is not his alleged great football mind, it’s his ability to piss people off, act like a classless jerk and end up failing. He has far more examples of all of those things recently than he does running a solid, well-coached unit.
I don’t care what Chiefs fans say.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Well is there a chance that his experience with the Cheifs
has humbled him? Is he stubborn like Arians? IDK. I would hope not but getting fired would be a humbling experienced to me, but thats me.
Anyone they hire has the chance of failing.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
good point
Belichick stunk up the place in Cleveland before his cheating days at NE….
I'm your huckleberry
This is perhaps unfair
But I have yet to come across a football coach who isn’t extraordinarily competitive, stubborn and proud.
Take that for what it’s worth.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
well being a friend didn't work with the offense
Arians didn’t piss them off and they repaid that by being #21 in scoring, bad in the redzone, and bad in situational football.
I don’t care if they are pissed off. I do care if they score and perform. Ben doesn’t have to like Haley. He only has to respect him and take the coaching from him. The #1 job of an OC is to be competent in his job. If a few egos get bruised en route to a title then I could care less.
Would the Rooneys hire him if they didn’t think that would change? No.
“Mike, start running the ball, or Arians is out of here.”
-Art Rooney II, 2009
Did Arians run the ball in 2010? Yeah, little bit…in 2011? No. So did Arians change or not?
thats a bit out of context
given our injuries to OL and RB positions..but he was let go as a result of (what I feel was bit of scape goat) approach for the teams whoa’s…I do share your concern of his sincerity or ability to be a true steeler coach…
by OR69faithfull on Jan 31, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I’m only pointing it out as a way to suggest they’ve banked on a guy changing in the past and it didn’t really work out.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Well that is why he is now gone isn't it?
How can we blame the rooneys for arians not changing?
Thats on Arians not the rooneys.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Again, my point is OR said they wouldn’t hire him if they didn’t think he could change. They kept Arians in his job expecting him to change. I don’t think he did.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
right
again how is that fault of the rooneys?
You’re saying that Haley to his core is who is his, and this could be a failed experiment. Then wouldn’t hat be just as bad as hiring a bad OC? Haley has far more potential so you warn him that the stuff isn’t tolerated here and hope for the best. If he listens then great and if he doesn’t then we’re looking for another OC.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
No, that is NOT what I am saying.
I wrote that specifically to OR, refuting his theory that we can be confident in their decision because they wouldn’t hire him if they didn’t think he could change.
They gave Arians a chance to change, and he didn’t. It has nothing to do with Haley. I am not blindly going to buy into their choice simply because they are able to warn him beforehand.
I don’t see why we’re so enamored with a guy who had some success with elite players (no, we do not have a passing connection like Warner to Fitzgerald) four years ago.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see why we’re so enamored with a guy
Who are you talking about? I don’t see anyone here openly supporting the hire of Haley. We’re saying that we should trust the FO to do the right thing based on their impressive track record.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
This is what I'm saying
All things equal, I thin there are better candidates than Haley, however if the Steelers hire him, then they believe he can do the job. Not many people were happy with Tomlin, and that worked out OK.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Jan 31, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Neal
They gave Arians a chance to change, and he didn’t. It has nothing to do with Haley. I am not blindly going to buy into their choice simply because they are able to warn him beforehand.
So because Arians didn’t change does that mean that Haley can’t change either?
Like you said, It has nothing to do with Haley, so you have to look at it separately. Just don’t assume because BA didn’t change that means Haley won’t change. I’m not saying that he will just saying we don’t know.
As far as his record, I think his stint with KC is pretty impressive, he had the #1 rushing offense with KC, he has shown to be proficient in the run and the pass if he has the talent around him. He has the talent around him here if we get an offensive line so I don’t know why you are so down on his record.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
You're still missing the point
It was an isolated conversation, I wasn’t making a larger point. Again, just refuting the notion I can feel comfortable because the Rooneys will tell Haley to change, and he will. Did it before and it didn’t work out.
I’d rather just hire the right guy now. I don’t feel Haley is it.
We do not have the passing talent you think we do. Roethlisberger is not Warner, and Wallace/Brown is not Fitzgerald. Even then, they were a 9-7 team before Fitzgerald was bigger than even Rice ever was in four playoff games. Hasn’t done squat since then.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
I see
And my counter point was that they fired Arians which leads us to where we are now. If Haley doesn’t change they will fire here and we will look for another OC, basically the same risk we have with anyone we hire.
I never said the talent was equivalent nor similar in style. I just said we have talent.
Hasn’t done squat since is underselling his playoff year with KC, a team that hadn’t made the playoffs in almost a decade.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
He got waxed in the playoffs after beating up on a bad division, and has won five games since then.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
We got waxed in the playoffs
after beating up on a weak schedule. Whats your point?
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Also if we lost
Troy, Mendenhall, and Ben in the same year, I’m pretty sure we’d win around 5 games too.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
We won 12 games
And lost in overtime against a tough defensive team.
I think Kansas City had 47 yards of offense in their playoff game.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
well Neal
I concede, we’ll have to wait and see what happens.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
he had the #1 rushing offense with KC
Why do people conveniently give credit to different areas. People give him credit for Arizona, but don’t give credit to Whisenhunt. But then he goes to KC, all the sudden he’s responsible for KC’s improvement, but the OC obviously did nothing. Which is it? Arians was always the only one at fault for our offense, so that means Tomlin wasn’t at fault. How does it work so differently depending on what we’re talking about?
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
He didn't really have an OC in KC
he went through 3 in 3 years and was always at odds with Scott Pioli
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Clemson should've stopped turning the ball over" Dana Holgorsen when asked about running up the score in the Orange Bowl
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 2, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Ok…so assuming that what you said matters, he gets credit for KC’s offensive success. Why does he get credit for Az’s success? Shouldn’t that be Whisenhunt? I’d be more willing to give Whiz credit because I remember what he did for us. I guess it just depends what information someone chooses to use to make their point.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
im not sure i wrote that.....
i did suggest his interest in the position would have to convince the FO and Tomlin as to his ability to take a selfless approach to joining a Winning frachise and hoped if hired realized the joint commitment to it not being a transition to a coaching job elsewhere…..
either on this thread or the last….. so much, so fast, its hard to keep track of things…
by OR69faithfull on Jan 31, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Its so hard to discuss these kinds of things
we all have knowledge of football…. obviously out steeler team and its player, personel, coachs, front office, and all mixed views and reasons for out feeling based on obsevation…
Of course, non of us own football teams, or are head coachs in the NFL, advantage steeler manangement as they I’m sure have all the concerns of whats been posted here either side, with the advantage of having more insight and experience to make this tough decision.
by OR69faithfull on Jan 31, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
It's "woes"
But every time I saw his play calling, I’d say “Whoa!”
He was no scapegoat, he brought it on himself.
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
He would be a good hire for you guys...
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Charter Member of Chief Fans for Neck Beards...Viva La Orton
I don’t understand this, if all Chiefs fans loved the guy, I would think he was doing something positive. If he was doing something positive, why did he get fired in the middle of the year?
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
good question....
apparently Tomlin will be asking those very difficult questions…
by OR69faithfull on Jan 31, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
He was in over his head as a head coach, sure, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a good OC.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
Him not being successful as a head coach doesn’t mean he CAN be a good OC either. It also doesn’t mean he can’t be an astronaut or a ditch-digger.
My issue with him as a head coach is how he handled the responsibility when he had it. I think I’ve written maybe 40 words on Tomlin as an xs and os coach. I’ve written thousands on his leadership ability, organizational habits and ability to prepare his team to succeed.
A coordinator still needs to have those kinds of traits. I saw Haley ride Larry Fitzgerald to a Super Bowl and a head coaching job. That was four years ago. Nothing he has done since then has impressed me in the least.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
he was a good enough OC to get a head coaching job
Arians hardly had anyone knocking down his door to give him that chance.
yes really
Name me one team that asked to interview Arians for their HC job while he was with the team. They don’t exist – and that speaks volumes considering some of the coordinators that have been given that chance.
there were no rumours
of BA being in the search for a HC job, not even an inquiry.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
as an offensive coordinator
that’s a lateral move. Nobody ever asked to interview him for a head coaching job. Who the hell cares if he was only unemployed for 10 days to be hired into the same job? I was pointing out that no organization saw him doing a good enough job at OC to interview him as a HC. They did see enough in Haley to give him that chance however.
Yeah
Until they fired him midway through a losing season after he won the year before. I didn’t hear Haley linked to a head coaching job this year either and there were plenty of them available.
Ironically, many of them went to offensive coordinators without head coaching experience….
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
He lost his starting QB, RB, FS and TE
are you expecting miracles from him. Take away those four people from the Steelers and see how well we do. I’m sorry most orgs aren’t run the like the Steelers and make knee-jerk reactions based on how well the GM likes the coach
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Clemson should've stopped turning the ball over" Dana Holgorsen when asked about running up the score in the Orange Bowl
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 2, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Nope, no one is. Anyone with a brain would know that losing what he lost seriously handicaps you. He was STILL fired. That tells the world that he is such a douche, or whatever, that he is expendable despite a 10 win season. Trust me, Pioli knows how football works.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
disregard prior posts
I’m working on something else and thought you were talking about anothe OC position. Sorry for misreading that.
I'm your huckleberry
lol
disregard my reply
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
and also, using “he was good enough to get a head coaching job”
How does that mean anything? You’ve never seen a stupid hire in the NFL before? Just because one team had a GM that was dumb enough to try him out, doesn’t mean he’s so much better than anyone else. They could have been friends, or were friends of friends.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I never said he could be a good OC, and if it were up to me I wouldn’t hire him. However, there is a reason that we are sitting around, surfing the web and eating Cheez-Its and not making big time decisions for pro football teams.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
yes there is a reason
it’s called the season was still in progress. Nobody was hiring him as their OC mid season, but then again nobody would be expected to hire anybody during the season for that position.
I love this argument
Yeah, you’re right, in the feudal system that is our country, there’s no possible way anyone can be as knowledgeable as a GM of an NFL team.
I’m sorry, but that is so blindly ignorant it’s funny. If Haley succeeds, it will be because he isn’t doing the things he did in Kansas City that caused him to fail. You don’t need to be inside a team’s board room to see that.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
If Haley succeeds its because he changes how he treats his players.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Let me just say a few things before I move on from this thread:
1. You probably aren’t as smart as the Rooneys and you definitely don’t have the information that they do concerning Haley. This isn’t an insult so don’t get offended.
2. My main point is that IF the Steelers hire Haley, we should trust that they made the right decision. We aren’t the Raiders. We don’t have to question our FO’s every move and until they severely screw up, they deserve out trust.
3. Your whole argument is based on the assumption that we’ll hire Haley, which may or may not be true. In fact, I doubt he is the OC we hire. However, if he is I suggest you go back to point #2.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
by Riddlah. on Jan 31, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Move on indeed, that’s fine. I don’t take point 1 as an insult, but I do wish to point out there’s no way they do not have the same concerns I do. If they hire him, it will be in full knowledge of these things, and a faith in him he can still do the job. It will NOT be due to anything we currently do know know about or understand. I’ve seen plenty of the only thing that matters; his team’s performance on the field. They don’t play secret games in the NFL.
I’m betting you aren’t a music or movie producer, but I bet you know a good movie when you see one, right?
As for 3, yeah…I’m aware of that. The purpose of this thread, though, is to discuss that possibility.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
would you at least agree...
that the Steelers organization has more information about this candidate to make a decision on than you do…and they are better qualified to do so.
And coaching is not a popularity contest. Buddy Ryan was a A- hole of the highest order…but he sure could coascn a defense.
I'd also say that the organization might not mind him being a bit tough on the offense
Seriously – under Arians we had the bone headed mistakes on the field, and the unreal boneheaded mistakes off of it. I know Ben’s now settled down, but that fiasco was only a couple of years ago, then there was that tone thing etc.
I’m just saying that the offensive side of the ball hasn’t been as tight of a ship as the defense as of late. A coach who is a bit less of a BFF isn’t a bad thing.
by lkwdsteel on Jan 31, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Now I have seen it all, you are actually blaming Bens motorcycle accident and alleged assaults on Arians. And I thought I was just exaggerating how crazy people got when talking about Arians. Turns out, I was dead on.
I have to thank you though, that was some seriously funny stuff. I think I’m going to blame Hurricane Katrina on him too. Maybe the earthquakes in Haiti. Why the hell not.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I think he was implying discipline and accountability were lacking nothing more.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 1, 2012 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Any information the Steelers may have on him that any of us cannot find ourselves are either based on private conversations specific to the position he interviewed for, or various other tidbits having known the guy basically since he was born.
No, I don’t have “more” information on him, but I watched the same games he coached as they did. I saw the same incidents he had both on the field and off. While no one’s asking me to interview for a GM job (nor should they), I do think it’s naive to assume Todd Haley has some kind of top secret file in the Steelers organizational vault that’s eyes-only.
In other words, I feel I have enough information to make an educated opinion about the man’s managerial chops (I have experience and education in that regard), and those things along with what his team looked like when he coached them are what I based my opinion on.
I’m sorry, I just don’t accept “The Rooneys said so, so I believe it” as a main reason to support a move the team makes. However, I don’t disagree with them often. I was totally on board with Tomlin when he was hired, and I supported Arians through this year.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
"you watched the same games"
I’m suddenly reminded of the old Jim Mora quote.
“You don’t know when it’s good or bad. You really don’t know, because you don’t know what we’re trying to do, you guys don’t look at the films. You don’t know what happened. You really don’t know. You think you know, but you don’t know. And you never will.”
What we as fans look at vs what the professionals breaking down game film are two different things. There’s a reason they are doing what they do for a living, and there’s a reason we don’t do the same thing.
I’m not trying to be That Guy, but I’ve broken down film for teams before. I’m not a genius, and you’re right, there are things you just won’t know about, but that’s not what I’m referring to. I don’t question his football acumen. I question his leadership and managerial skills.
You don’t need a football education to know body language, and looking at Chiefs players, they didn’t convince me they were into the game. I blame the coach for that – the reason is irrelevant, it’s his responsibility to get them to play.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
I blame the GM and Players if they aren't professional
There’s a reason the Steelers value drafting character guys. If anyone in the organization quits on the team then they’ll be traded to the jets for a 7th round pick.
The players at this level are being paid as professionals. It shouldn’t make a bit of difference to them if they like their coach. They are being paid a lot of money to follow whoever their owner says. Getting beaten physically can be explained. Forgetting assignments can happen. Quitting on your coach, team, and organization cannot ever be tolerated.
He was traded for a 5th
And KC was a team of Santonios (incidentally) against the Jets. You can’t trade the whole team for 5th round picks. You find a coach who gets them to play hard.
There are 53 players, and one coach. If they coach can’t get them to play, they find a new coach, and yes, perhaps some new players. Rest assured, though, you are wrong; it’s the coach’s job to get them ready to play the game. They do not simply dump the player.
Why did Haley get fired, then? Jim Caldwell? The 9,000 coaches the Browns have gone through?
And please don’t give me more front office rhetoric about how they never draft the right players.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
To be honest
I thought it was a huge jump of the gun when the Chiefs fired him. It’s hard to win when 3 of your best starters go out earlier in the season.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe it wasn’t just because they were (sort of) losing. Maybe it was because the players were near a revolution and looked like they completely quit the game prior to his termination.
There’s way more than just simply winning and losing. There are 53 guys on the roster and one coach. The coach needs to get those 53 guys to play, and if they aren’t they need to find someone who will make them.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
We aren't asking him to be HC though.
So I don’t see how that applies here. That won’t be his responsibility. Will he be able to act within the realms of his responsibility without pissing people off remains to be seen. But there is no perfect candidate out there, everyone will have their pros and cons.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
He still needs to lead, manage and organize
Universal truths of coaching at that level. Doesn’t matter what his position is, he needs to prepare himself in a manner befitting a champion.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
He just need to do it on a smaller scale in relation to that of a head coach.
If they hire him, then we’ll see.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
That or they just had Tyler Palko at QB.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
ding ding ding
maybe it was less of a revolt, and more of just revolting. Bill Walsh would have been fired with Palko as his QB.
Interesting theory
I didn’t think he played that well on defense to hold a team that held a +4 turnover margin to 13 points, but he really must have gotten after the passer, huh?
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
I think you're missing the point
Palko at QB = no hope of winning
No hope of winning = unhappy players
unhappy players = apparent revolution you described.
If KC had a real QB and were winning games, then odds are they would have had far less of a beef with Haley and his personality.
I'm not, actually
Sounds like Haley did a great job of motivating them. I would like to point out Haley used Palko as his back-up QB. Pittsburgh played with a back-up QB and managed to win.
Apparently, Tomlin will have to teach him “The standard is the standard” pretty early in his regime.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Batch >>> Palko
you can get by with an average backup, but you can’t get by with one that’s plain horrible. The bears found that out, and so did the Chiefs. All the motivation in the world doesn’t make someone better than they can possibly be. Palko was horrible. Didn’t he account for about half of the interceptions we got this season in that one game?
Did you even look at the box score?
The D did give up a TD early, but then they followed that up with shutting the Jets down for 3 straight drives. How’d the offense help them out? Essentially six staight 3 and outs. They did get a FG, but that was after a big return and they mustered 6 yards. The last one of those 3 and outs was an interception that led to 7.
Then they started the second half by punt, punt, punt
Cassell, Berry, and Charles going down killed the morale of that team. It wasn’t Haley.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
No, I find watching the games tell you more than the box scores do.
If guys going down kills the morale of the team, again and for the 500th time today, I question the leader of the team. I’m not questioning his ability to win, I question why he can’t get his players to play hard despite who’s not playing that day.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Right, you watched the game and saw what no one else did?
Also, for the “500th time” it didn’t kill the morale. It just made them not as good. Exactly how when Ben goes down our offense isn’t as good. When Troy goes out our defense isn’t as good.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
You were the one who said it killed morale. I totally agree it made a mediocre team less good, but going off your suggestion morale was bad, that indicates poor leadership.
If you aren’t arguing morale, then I don’t have any issue with what you said.
I’m not sure where I said morale, but if I did it wasn’t the main point of my argument. I was saying they sucked and were inconsistent because that’s exactly what Palko is as a QB.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Feb 1, 2012 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
Then they started the second half by punt, punt, punt
Cassell, Berry, and Charles going down killed the morale of that team. It wasn’t Haley.
“It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them.” -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 7:00 PM CST up reply actions
It’s cool, I’m just saying that was the reason I responded. I agree, Palko is an absolutely terrible quarterback. He’s Tebow without size and mobility.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 1, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I know you don't believe the Chiefs fans
But you have to stop thinking this is a fact:
Maybe it was because the players were near a revolution and looked like they completely quit the game prior to his termination.
here’s the direct quote, from the chief’s players mouths:
Some of the Chiefs players voiced their opinions over the Haley firing.
"It was a little bit of a shocker," running back Jackie Battle said. "Todd is a very passionate coach and wants to win. It caught me off guard a little bit. We went to the playoffs last year and won the AFC West, but I guess the team’s moving on.
(Going to the playoffs last year) has to mean something. The season didn’t go the way we wanted this year, but he’s proven that he can win in the league."
All-Pro Linebacker Derrick Johnson, once a recipient of Haley’s "tough love" program, said that the players still believed in Haley.
"We definitely believed in him," Johnson said. "My best wishes are for him, and I hope he does well in the future. "Me and Todd have grown closer in the time he’s been here. We’ve had our ups and downs, of course, but my hat’s off to him for sticking with me and being passionate about what he believes in. We’ve shared some good times. He’s a fun guy to be around. He’ll definitely be well missed."
Johnson went so far as to say, despite the injuries, its the players’ fault for the 5-8 season.
I can’t understand why you will not be open to acknowledging that some of your reasoning is not supported by reality, other than whatever you have decided it is. Its ok to be open minded and looki at things in a fresh way that might go against your currently held or previous beliefs.
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
by Twell on Jan 31, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you Twell
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
lol
I can’t understand why you will not be open to acknowledging that some of your reasoning is not supported by reality, other than whatever you have decided it is. Its ok to be open minded and looki at things in a fresh way that might go against your currently held or previous beliefs.
You’re hilarious, dude.
hey, do me a favor, go find a quote from a player openly celebrating the fact a coach just got fired. You won’t find it.
Also, him blaming the coach and not at least kind of shouldering the responsibility makes him look like an a-hole, so do me a favor, take your “fresh looks at things” somewhere else. It’s not my fault you’re naive enough to believe what they say to the media.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
link to the sources that verify that your outside opinion has any validity. You made an assertion that comes across as your opinion from watching film. Sorry if I missed you referencing that somewhere, but can you pose evidence of your assertion.
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
You made an assertion that comes across as your opinion from watching film.
I know that. Sports are ultimately subjective, and there is often very little empirical evidence to prove anything. This isn’t a court of law. However, it’s hard for you to say that’s not a credible way to formulate an opinion. Decisions to draft players and pay them millions of dollars to be cornerstone members of franchises are made by watching film.
If you don’t agree with me, that’s cool, we can have differing opinions and have neither of us be wrong. Based on what I saw of that team last year, I don’t think he got the most out of his players. I have reason to question his judgement. Offensively, they were inconsistent, not from as much a physical perspective but from a mental one. I didn’t feel they looked to be all there all the time, and I didn’t like what I saw.
Obviously I have no way of verifying that as a fact, and you don’t have any way to prove my opinion wrong. That’s just what I see, and I stand by my opinion. I have no problem with your disagreement because I very well could be wrong.
Props to your reasonable-ness
but I do think you shouldn’t have brushed off the chiefs fans who came over to share insights. I think the real story is somewhere in between.
I don’t think it would have been a bad idea to try him out, but obviously Rooney & Tomlin passed on him, so maybe there was something to be wary of after all.
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
No, you’re right, it’s likely something in between the two.
To be honest, I wrote that out of the idea it would be happening quickly. The fact it didn’t has thrown me for a loss…
The only conclusion I can come to is the main candidate is someone on the Patriots or the Giants staff.
Read the main page at 7 a.m. Thursday.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 1, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
and your starting QB goes down mid-season
even though they acquired Kyle Orton, its not Madden where you can just put anyone in an offense and succeed you have to let a guy learn the playbook and terminology before you put him out there.
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Clemson should've stopped turning the ball over" Dana Holgorsen when asked about running up the score in the Orange Bowl
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 2, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Your question rests on the supposition that....
…the Chiefs FO and/or Ownership operate in a logical and understandable manner.
That may not be the case..I wouldn’t know, but there are plenty of teams out there who defy logic (e.g. Browns, Dolphins, Raiders, etc).
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Probably wrong
but maybe the Rooney’s think Tomlin is too soft and they want a bad cop to balance his and DL’s good cop routine.
I'm your huckleberry
That dog don't hunt anymore (in southern accent)
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Oh no you didn't!
But I’ll leave it be.
Good to see you around again. So who is the OC going to be coach?
"They timed it perfectly, they just went too soon." - Darrell Waltrip commenting on an illegal restart.
I'm indifferent
I was against it, but the Chiefs fans had some good things to say about him.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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When was the last time that team was viable?? They don’t even know the difference anymore.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Uhh, the season before this one?
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, a great AFC West that year…10-6 and a complete ass-whipping in the first round of the playoffs, that’s really a viable team, huh? Your standards for excellence now rival Ravens fans.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
If it wasn’t for Charles going down on a late (imo) hit, they would have competed in the second half. I remember it being pretty close in the first, a Joe Flacco Special
Did you know Kansas City held the ball for 18 minutes in that game?
161 yards…yeah, if Charles was in there in the second half, the offense clearly would have picked it up.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Where's the hate coming from?
I mean seriously. Haley isn’t the dream candidate maybe, but the point that makes me happy is he’s not Arians. I’d be willing to give a monkey throwing feces at a board with plays on it a year to see if it works. Arians has proven beyond a doubt what we can expect under him:
2011 – 20.3 PPG
2010 – 23.4 PPG
2009 – 23.0 PPG
2008 – 21.7 PPG
With our talent on offense, averaging that low of a total in points scored per game (especially with the previous 3 years having a defense that was a turnover factory) is pathetic.
Embrace the change. If you’re right then Haley will be fired after a year and you can post about how he should have never been hired. I’m betting that even if he flops miserably though, the points per game total won’t drop below what we know we’d have with Arians. In fact, I’d be shocked if it doesn’t go up by at least a FG.
Ok, fine, if you want to aim for nothing more than Arians, then sure, maybe he’ll be an upgrade.
I’d be willing to give a monkey throwing feces at a board with plays on it a year to see if it works.
You still think this is all purely about plays and xs and os, don’t you? This isn’t Tecmo Bowl, where you just pick on a list of plays. Coordinating an offense is about preparation, it’s about managing and trusting your players, and getting them to do the same with you. Play selection is not rocket surgery; getting your players to execute is the trick. And when I see a coach’s players quitting on him (yes, I watched them play) I question whether I would want him in charge of my offense.
Working a spread offense with Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald had better come with a high level of success. We don’t have Jamaal Charles, either, so running the ball – especially when you run it as often as KC does and Charles breaks as many big runs as he does – isn’t a huge challenge either.
We don’t have the kinds of guards KC had, and we don’t have a breakaway back (at least we haven’t seen one).
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it's not all x's and o's
but when you’re at 3rd and 2 on the 18 yard line then yes the x’s and o’s of going empty set tells the defense they don’t have to worry about the run. Whether or not the players up front can make the play work is a big part of it, but telegraphing the play and eliminating half of the defenses responsibility makes it easier to defend.
The OC can’t cure world hunger, but at the very least he should make the defense wonder what could be coming next. Eliminating half of the options before the ball is snapped every freaking time. You can’t succeed in a play that everyone knows is coming consistently in this league. Talent level is too even across the board.
Oh, good! So, the 50/50 choice the defense has on every play, it’s either a run or a pass, gets solved.
Now what? If the backfield is empty, you’ve got five receivers. You only start four defensive backs commonly, so you’ve got your fifth best at a unit on the field – or you’ve got a linebacker, who is usually too small to cover a tight end or too slow to cover a receiver.
The defender also doesn’t know the route the receiver is going to run. A quick snap, quick drop and quick throw on the money can get two yards pretty easily, and is extremely tough to defend if run properly.
The question is, what advantage do you have over a team that will help you get two yards.
If you think the Steelers have the run blockers to line up and get two yards, you’re crazy, because the opposite of what you said is true too. You can’t go double tight and expect defenders to get out of the box.
And FYI, the Steelers ran on 3rd and short as often as any team in the league, look it up.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Now what? If the backfield is empty, you’ve got five receivers. You only start four defensive backs commonly, so you’ve got your fifth best at a unit on the field – or you’ve got a linebacker, who is usually too small to cover a tight end or too slow to cover a receiver.
How often did that work though?
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Dunno
It happened far less often than you think it did. Pittsburgh ran on 3rd and short very often.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
I don't have any stats on it
but I think they started doing it again more this year after giving it up for a couple years because of the all the struggles running the ball on 3rd and short in ’08.
I just recall that most of the time that they went empty set, it seemed that Ben ended up getting sacked. Maybe I just remember the bad more than the good.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jan 31, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
It happened far less often than you think it did.
That’s all you need lol. Seriously the stuff lkwd is saying, and other as well, is not accurate. Their minds are playing tricks on them. Much like the people that say we go deep “too much” when really it’s usually somewhere between 2 and 5. But they are so convinced we do it at least 50% of our plays.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
The amount of deep passes didn’t concern me nearly as much as the lack of success they had with it. That, of course, brings into question the amount of times they tried it. That’s fair. If the well is dry, why tap it?
It’s a game of inches. Despite everything I said earlier, I’m a ground-and-pound kind of guy. Teams win or lose championships based on their ability to convert third and short. It’s the most important situation in the most important down.
Ultimately, I don’t believe an overhaul of the offensive system is needed. Just the ability to pick up one or two more of those a game. Another touchdown for every three field goals, instead of one every four. That raises your average quite a bit, and makes a tight game (like x2 vs. Cleveland, Kansas City, Baltimore, etc.) a bit more loose. Instead of a one-possession lead, it’s two. Instead of being a field goal behind, you’re four points up.
It’s the little things, and in the end, you’re going to need more than one way to convert a 3rd-and-2.
Were you talking about our offense?
A quick snap, quick drop and quick throw on the money can get two yards pretty easily,
"They timed it perfectly, they just went too soon." - Darrell Waltrip commenting on an illegal restart.
Even though I am not on the same page Neal, I am rec'ing for Rocket Surgery.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 1, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
Arians secret play calling strategy is finally revealed:
a monkey throwing feces at a board with plays on it
Suddenly, the reason behind calling empty backfeild sets on 3rd & short is apparent.
Bound to cover just a little more ground.
Over half of them were from Charles. I can’t be assed to look it up but the Ravens weren’t setting the world on fire in the first half
It was 10-7 at the half. Why that matters is beyond me. Half of Charles’ yards came on one run. Decent day, for sure, but I struggle to claim a team is really good when their offense completely dies when that player goes down.
They weren’t a great team; they were an alright team in a bad division with a game-changing offensive player. 10-6 sounds reasonable, but a 30-7 whipping in the first round isn’t anything to brag about.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
our offense beyond dies when one player goes down. lets throw batch in a playoff game and watch him get demolished by teams worse than the ravens for worse than 30-7. if you don’t have a good QB, you have to have a homerun threat like charles to even compete in this league.
My favorite part is how NO ONE gave Arians any of these excuses, but we’re passionately defending the strength of the Chiefs’ 2010 offense as a reason to suggest Todd Haley is better than Bruce Arians.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
arians only had to go without ben for a handful of games, and he called play to the detriment of his offensive line/skill players. we’re talking consistent fades in the endzone to 5’10’’ receivers here? i was more defending the chiefs against the ravens in the 09 WC round.
the chiefs were grossly overmatched by a seasoned and hungry Ravens team, yet they held with them until their star player on offense went down. that’s all im saying
Gotcha
And the Chiefs were not a good team, that’s why they got beat as badly as they did, that’s all I’m saying.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'm saying Haley is better
because the rest of the league obviously thought so. He was a hot ticket coming out of AZ. Arians went to 2 SBs as our OC and nobody even asked him to interview.
I’d also take his personal best vs Arians personal best in scoring offenses. Arians has had 9 games in 4 years where we reached 30 points. Exactly 1 game where we reached 40. In 2008 alone AZ had 5 30 point games and 1 over 40, then tacked on 3 30 point games in the playoffs.
If more than half of Wallace’s yards come on one pass did he have a bad day? That’s pretty much how he became a good WR.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say Charles had a bad game
I’m saying the fact he was their only option and he got hurt exposed a razor thin team that was not competitive with the better teams of the league.
I recall scoring just fine on Baltimore the following week, and we didn’t have a great offense last year.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
This is absolutely absurd. Who cares if Charles was by far their biggest playmaker or not? He opened up things for the rest of the team. Without him they were clearly not as good. I think that’s evident by 10-7 half, and then 30-7 finish.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
No
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
Well, maybe not exact, but it seems as though you’re both saying without Charles, the team sucked.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
It's not exactly what I said
I was just pointing out the fact the team was drastically worse when one player went out. To me, that’s not a good team.
Our argument really comes down to our opinions of how good that Chiefs team was. I can’t argue 10-6 and a division title, John can’t argue how badly they got worked in the playoffs.
When the rubber meets the road, it doesn’t matter. We’ve gone way off topic.
I can argue how badly they got worked in the playoffs by pointing out when their best playmaker got injured the game was within a field goal. Without him, it’s a 20-0 score.
What I was saying, is it doesn’t mean they are a bad team because they stalled without him. I’m sure a 49ers team without Rice hurts, the Cowboys without Smith, the Vikings without Peterson, the Titans (when they were good) without George or recently CJ. A lot of teams have been very dependent on one player and they are still good teams.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Feb 1, 2012 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
How were they once AJ Green got injured? Oh wait.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Feb 1, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
10-7 at halftime. Charles had a TD and only 9 carries for 82 yards before he went down, with one fumble – same as Ravens team during first half. Charles is not there in second half, Thomas Jones is exposed as old and slow by Ravens D and a green Matt Cassell has absolutely zero running game (Charles had 82, their team had 108 on the day), throwing 3 second half interceptions. And throw in a fumble from McCluster for 30-7. Certainly sounds different that way
All fans aren’t snobby Steelers fans where if you don’t win the SB it’s automatically a failed season. That team clearly was making steps in the right direction and then it lost it’s QB, RB, and arguably best defensive player.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Rookie Eric Berry was NOT the team’s best player.
None of this answers for me or anyone else why they fired Haley in the middle of the season if the only thing wrong was an unlucky string of injuries. You can’t pack up the year if a few guys go down. In fact, that’s when coaches need to be at their best.
Call me a snob all you want, if you don’t want to accept the fact you can win 10 games and not be a good team, then fine. 10-6 and getting whipped in the first round is a far cry from the Super Bowl. That’s not a good team.
Plus, dig a little deeper, Cassel played a bit last season, and their defense did just fine without Berry. That team was as bipolar as it gets. One week, Haley had them prepared, the next week he didn’t. I really don’t understand what’s so hard about this concept. The guy had issues managing his team.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
Eric Berry was NOT a rookie. And I said arguably their best defensive player. In other words, you could make an argument for him, Flowers, Hali, or Johnson.
You’re the only one saying he packed it up. No one else is. Not Chiefs fans. Not Chiefs players. Just you.
I guess I have to bunch you in with the other snobs if you say making it to the playoffs with a home field game is an unsuccessful season.
and their defense did just fine without Berry.
What’s the point here? I’m sure they would have been a lot better than “just fine” with Berry in there.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Eric Berry was NOT a rookie.
You’re right, he wasn’t, but the only time he’s really played has been as a rookie. He wasn’t their best player in 2010, or going into 2011.
My point is the defense was better in 2011 when Barry wasn’t in there. So how good was he? Hali is the best player on that defense, I was only pointing Berry’s absence and the defense’s improvement without him as a way of saying he’s not their best defensive player.
Where did I say any one person packed it up? What are you talking about? I said the team played uninspired, bipolar football for most of 2011.
Considering Haley left the job and accused them of bugging his phone, I could believe the argument his paranoia led to a mismanaged and ultimately an ineffective team. You cannot argue, however, that team was either consistently good or consistently bad all year. I even wrote about that before we played them. You just flat-out don’t know what team you’re going to get.
How on earth you’re choosing to overlook those things while blaming injuries to an unproven safety, a shaky quarterback and a young tight end as the reason the team was so up and down is beyond me, but hey, have at it, hoss!
And while you’re at it, bunch me wherever you want, I could care less. I never said anything about success, I simply said a team that gets crushed at home in the first round of the playoffs is not a good team.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
My point is the defense was better in 2011 when Barry wasn’t in there.
What?! The defense didn’t get better without him. They took steps back from 2010. Or are you saying from this year? Because Berry got injured in the first game, I have no idea how you could make that ridiculous conclusion.
Where did I say any one person packed it up? What are you talking about?Seriously?
You can’t pack up the year if a few guys go down
And FFS, the reason they were inconsistent was because Tyler effing Palko was their QB. You cannot be consistent with him at QB. It’s the exact damn thing that happened when the Raiders tried using Gradkowski as their starter.
How on earth you are choosing to overlook the injury of your starting QB and replacing him with garbage, your 1st round drafted safety, and your best playmaker on offense and pretend like the team should produce consistently is absolutely beyond me, but hey, have at it, hoss!
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Jan 31, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Way to be original
I still don’t understand where I said one person packed it up, so yeah, seriously. Please enlighten me.
My opinion is their defense looked tougher in 2011 than it did in 2010. You disagree. Great. Let’s keep this about the offense.
Telling me Haley lost games and ultimately, his job in Kansas City because Cassel got hurt and Palko had to play is you missing the forest for the trees. You’re assuming Haley is in no way responsible for the team’s production when it isn’t at 100 percent. I completely disagree with that.
Apparently, so did the Chiefs’ front office.
I don’t need a coach to be at his best when his team is 100 percent, I need him to be at his best when he’s in a less-than-ideal situation, because injuries happen to every team, and the best ones play through it.
Haley put him No. 2 on the depth chart. Ultimately, he’s held accountable to those decisions. I don’t care nearly as much that he lost games with Palko in there, I care about the fact Palko looked like a lost child during the game. Haley shoulders at least some of the blame for that.
You’re clearly against Palko as a player, and that’s fair. Why did Haley put him in there? Why isn’t he ready? You can’t argue that Haley clearly thought he’d be good enough to be a stop-gap in the event of an injury. If you disagree, then tell me why he’s No. 2 on the depth chart.
You keep wanting to act as if my argument with Haley is strictly about stats and winning and losing. I’m watching his team play (not simply reading over box scores), the offense in particular. They’re disorganized, confused, tentative and lacking any real fire. That gives me a perfectly valid concern as to Haley’s abilities as an offensive manager and leader as well as gives me reason to question his judgement.
So I’ll ask you, why do you want Haley running your team’s offense? I’m legitimately asking, because I’m sick of defending my point of view. Tell me why you aren’t concerned about the things I pointed out. Is it because Chiefs fans liked him?
Again, I don’t need my coach to be at his best when everyone is healthy, I need him to find a way to keep the ship sailing when a few holes get punched in the hull, not sit back and blame the person responsible for those holes.
Haley’s decisions with Kansas City this season don’t give me the feeling he’s the right man to do that. If they hire him, and the offense takes off, John, I will toast a beer to you and your great football mind, fully admitting I am wrong. For now, though, I don’t feel I am.
Peace, brotha!
What a chicken poop argument
My opinion is their defense looked tougher in 2011 than it did in 2010
“Tougher” gave up more points, more yards, more yards per play, had less sacks, and forced less fumbles. You’d figure “tougher” would = better, but I guess not. We’ll have to trust your unmeasurable “eye test”.
I have no objection to questioning why Haley had Palko second on his depth chart. That’s a fine argument to make. However, to say that he didn’t have his team prepared week in and week out is junk. Their play was inconsistent based solely on Palko’s arm. The defense was still playing tough by your standard and the offense didn’t have a QB.
I’m watching his team play (not simply reading over box scores), the offense in particular. They’re disorganized, confused, tentative and lacking any real fire.
Why did all of the Chiefs fans who visited completely disagree with you?
As I have said, I am indifferent to the hire. I don’t like his overall attitude, but after reading what some Chiefs fans said about him and seeing Tomlin do his research and decide he is worth an interview (I think we can safely conclude that Tomlin’s football mind far surpasses yours or mine) I am not totally against it. I just thing this entire barrage of Anti-Haley you have gone on looks childish and could come back to bite you in the ass if you’re wrong.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Feb 1, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
You called the s$$t poop
"Tougher" gave up more points, more yards, more yards per play, had less sacks, and forced less fumbles. You’d figure "tougher" would = better, but I guess not. We’ll have to trust your unmeasurable "eye test".
I said “tougher” and not “better” for a reason. I saw that defense play lights-out several times throughout the year. They also played terribly at times. I don’t feel their best defensive games in 2010 compared to their best defensive games in 2011. What offense the likes of Green Bay’s in 2011 did they stop in 2010? They kicked the tar out of us for four quarters, and really socked it to the Patriots until the wheels fell off. They held Denver to next to nothing, something our defense couldn’t do.
You’re right though, if we can’t or don’t measure it, it must not exist.
However, to say that he didn’t have his team prepared week in and week out is junk. Their play was inconsistent based solely on Palko’s arm. The defense was still playing tough by your standard and the offense didn’t have a QB.
Did Palko start every game? How well was Cassel doing before he got hurt? You’re entitled to your opinion, but you’re fitting a square peg into a round hole. My overriding point in suggesting Haley isn’t the right guy for this job is not based in the success or failure of the Chiefs’ team – something you cannot seem to get past. I don’t care that he didn’t win. They didn’t win because their quarterback wasn’t good, we both agree with that. However, his decision to have Palko in a back-up role and Palko’s obvious failure in that role goes straight to the credibility of Haley as an offensive leader and a key decision-maker on a football team.
You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken sh1t, but the smart coach doesn’t bother trying. He finds a better option. Haley failed to do that until it was too late. He stubbornly held onto a player who couldn’t play.
Why did all of the Chiefs fans who visited completely disagree with you?
I don’t know. Why did the Chiefs front office fire him in the middle of the season?
I find it humorous you passively call into question my credibility by saying Tomlin knows more about the game than I do (true), yet, you’re willing to take Chiefs’ fans opinions over those of their own front office (I’m assuming they know more about these matters than their fan base does). It’s especially funny, because you still can’t get over the fact I’m not talking about what he knows of the game of football. I’m talking about his ability to manage people, and I hate to point this out, but I have plenty of education and experience in the subject.
I just thing this entire barrage of Anti-Haley you have gone on looks childish and could come back to bite you in the ass if you’re wrong.
lol Yeah, I’m wrong for sharing my opinion on a web site in which I’m contractually obligated to do so. I’ll apologize as soon as I need a favor from Todd Haley.
As for his proposed success in Pittsburgh, it may happen. That won’t change his display of classlessness by refusing to shake his opponent’s hand after a game. It won’t change his decision to put a grossly unqualified player at the game’s most important position for multiple games. It won’t change the fact he clearly has shown he lets his emotions get the best of him during games.
Those things may not be on stat sheets, John, but you’re not going to hear anyone say those are keys to success.
I’m sorry you can’t handle the fact I disagree with you, and that you aren’t comfortable with the strength of my conviction on the matter. I also accept the fact my opinion could turn out to be baseless and Haley could have a lot of success in Pittsburgh, should he be offered and accept the job.
I was trying to make peace earlier, if that’s not cool with you, fine, but I’m done with this. I’ll keep writing my opinion. I encourage you to do the same. Now please, have the last word.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 1, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Your passive aggressive arguments only point out the point I was making about you being childish throughout this entire thread.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Feb 1, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Your passive aggressive arguments…
You really don’t know what that means, do you?
Don’t answer, cuz if you think anything I’ve said is passive aggressive, you’re a complete moron.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 1, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of morons.
Now please, have the last word.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 2, 2012 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Arrrggghhh!!
Please, no offense, but you really can’t talk about his management skills because you have absolutely no idea what is going on in the chief’s organization. You judge Haley by the results – wins, losses, stats, (in which you’re earlier comments sound like you are talking about the steelers, btw), and what you percieve as bad decisions, both in personnel and preparation.
Did the FO or Piori tell Haley they wanted Palko as #2? Maybe they even discussed it and he directed Haley to make decisions contrary to his own process? Were you at practice? Meetings? From the article posted in another thread about the working conditions in KC, I don’t doubt that what you describe as ‘bad management’ might be attributed to his superiors, work environment, etc. There are also over 50 different players with different personalities, along with coaches and other staff that set the tone. You can’t simply blame Haley for everything, but hey, it’s the HC fault for everything right?
I think I might be able to give Haley the benefit of the doubt because anybody can lose it (side line arguments) when you have to go back to your boss and he treats you like shit, second guesses you, tells you to do what you know is wrong etc – day in and day out for months. His firing during the season means jack shite.
If you have so much experience and education in management, how can you ignore context? Especially when you don’t know it or any real details? Final results or media fodder don’t always tell the whole story.
…and you have pretty much gone on a tirade about Haley How can you keep your credibility when you express so much emotion about a subject just like Haley does on the sidelines?
Just sayin’
Call it what you want. I’m secure in my opinion. Sounds to me like you’re bothered by the fact someone has an aggressive opinion and you don’t like the fact I have something to support it, so you lean on “you don’t know everything about it!”
What I know is he failed. Please, all of you, continue to argue with me about that. Please. Obviously, he had a world of success I’m missing.
Hey, did he get hired yet? I wonder why. It couldn’t possibly be any reason I mentioned, right? Cuz you don’t like that, therefore, it must not be true….
Thanks!
by Neal Coolong on Feb 1, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
So you really think he won't get hired?
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 2, 2012 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
We would have hired him by now
If he was the guy the Steelers want. I suspect he will be on the list but not near the top. I think there are probably a couple of other people ahead of him on the list.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 2, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn't talking about us
I was talking in general.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 2, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I can't answer that
I would be surprised if no one would hire him unless he is asking too much.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 4, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t have an opinion, and I’m not bothered. I simply don’t know the details, but you sure are quick to throw me into the pile that is arguing with you.
I just want to point out that you are contradicting yourself, and are really riding this anti-Haley wave to the max – sometimes innaccurately. I wonder why.
..And no, I don’t give a fuck – it isn’t affecting my observation about you.
Hey, did he get hired yet? I wonder why. It couldn’t possibly be any reason I mentioned, right? Cuz you don’t like that, therefore, it must not be true….
I’m on the fence on this issue, because if they do hire him and it works out, great, if he doesn’t fire him and get someone else.
I do believe that the reason no one has been hired yet is that the Rooneys will NOT hire someone the week before the SB. They wouldn’t want to try to grab headlines away from the teams in the game.
After all, we need to find out the important things, like what are the Patriot players favorite Madonna songs…
"Ziggy got weight-room strength, I got grown-ass man strength" -- Casey Hampton
When was the last time they had a good draft?
Their run of bad draft picks isn’t Haley’s fault. That started way back with Vermeil.
I'm getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
"It would be tough for me to care less about their opinion, to be honest with you." Mike Tomlin
well....this is a hot bed of debate
which may or may not have to be discussed mid season if hes hired…. enjoy your day all
I am sure Arians was a good man
I am sure Arians was a good man and Haley is a total d-bag. However, the Steelers are in the business of winning football games. If Big Ben hates Haley but the Steelers don’t stagnate offensively like they did under Arians, then too bad for Big Ben. I remember Big Ben didn’t necessarily like Whisenhunt either and that worked out pretty well too. If Fichtner becomes the new OC, I have a feeling it will be Arians all over again.
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.- Mark Twain
by steeler_chris_5 on Jan 31, 2012 4:27 PM EST reply actions
Haley
COME ON, I GUARANTEE YOU the at Pitt will due major due diligence; talking to a lot of people and checking out EVERYTHING in depth, before they hire Haley (or anyone else for that matter), All this is speculation as far as what kind of Coach he will be.
Why not.
Someone has lead BB on the path to the open receiver 8 yards down the field, and to forget that feel good of making thata 40 yarder in double coverage. BB has too much leeway on the team. Even a 100 million $ QB can learn some new tricks. He might even get Mendy to stop dancing behind the line.
If things don’t work out, Fichtner is ready.
by ibygeorge on Jan 31, 2012 4:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
So Neal, just want to be clear -
you are against this hire?
LOL Just messing with you man, you are pretty adamant about this one, I think it will work out for the best if he is hired, if I am wrong, you have my permission to take it out on me.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
lol
Yes….and I am also very hungry. Makes me crabby
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
get something to eat homie
:)
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 31, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Somebody get Betty White a Snickers please!
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 31, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
mm, Snickers...
"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 31, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Jan 31, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
not the biggest haley fan....
but i would actually be in favor of this type of hire. His offense’s out in the desert where good, and you could say the cast here if not better, is surely deeper. Fitz is top 5 @ wr, with a younger bolding & breaston, compare to wallace, brown, sanders, and its pretty even to me. and there is no comparison in the rb’s. So the pieces are here for a great offense. I’ll be excited with some imaginative play calling. BA would get in these ruts where I ( who lives in IL & sees like 5 games a year on tv) could call run/pass for a whole series or 2 or 3 or a half.
It’s not very often the steelers hire a big name or “hot” coaching name. Yes, i’ll admit its not always good to hire the big name, but sometimes can provide a little spark on its own even if the improvement is a net even.
"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"
I do find it interesting
that the info posted onsite was very letter, and word short….
Like most of this OC transition….not a word more or less of the truth has been officially posted or released… and the simple fact, "tomlin interviews haley " quite intentionally left out other parts of management involved in the process… cant help but wonder if hes getting a bit more of the reins in making the decision and putting a bit more of his stamp on the team…
He's a SB winning head coach
I’m sure that he’s had the reigns for a while. If he would have really wanted Arians back, then he would have been back. The Rooney family normally doesn’t operate like Jerry Jones.
Excellent point
To be fair though, press releases are typically not full of details. They’re supposed to be black-and-white and obviously controlled information from the source.
Plainly, it said Tomlin was interviewing Haley. It’s not going to get into who’s making the final decision, or even who’s decision it was to interview him. It just says Tomlin interviewed him. It lets us read into it however we’d like.
I'd rather see us not hire any OC than hire Haley.
MT ought to cover these duties and save the team some money. He couldn’t possibly do any worse than Arians. In Pittsburgh parlance, Haley’s just another jagoff that we don’t need.
Well, having BA was like not having any OC.
So why hire somebody just for the sake of filling the position?
Tension can breed positive results.
Some of the best music ever made was created when bandmates were feuding. Check out the Fair Warning album by Van Halen. That album was the beginning of the tension between David Lee Roth and Eddie Van Halen. Dark, brooding stuff that kicks your ass from the word “go.”
If you want to stick to football analogies, look at the Bradshaw/Noll years. Those two are known for their tenuous relationship.
Then again, tension can also breed disaster. Look at what happened when Lane Kiffin coached for the Raiders. From everything that’s ever come out about that train wreck, those two were constantly stepping on each other’s toes.
If Haley is hired and there is, indeed, tension between Ben and him, let’s hope it breeds results more along the lines of Noll and Bradshaw.
Ultimately, though, let’s hope Haley can just stifle his inner-jagoff, be a leader, and call plays. And, of course, still get the results of Noll and Bradshaw.
Those who can...do.
Those who can't... post on message boards using a screen name boasting the name of those who can.
by Craig Sager's Wardrobe on Jan 31, 2012 5:40 PM EST reply actions
Haley meets my criteria for a major upgrade at OC
1) he’s breathing
2) he’s not Arians
Anything above that is pure gravy.
I'm definitely willing to give the guy a shot.
Those who can...do.
Those who can't... post on message boards using a screen name boasting the name of those who can.
by Craig Sager's Wardrobe on Jan 31, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Van Halen
New Cd out Feb 7th " A Different Kind Of Truth"
Your right “Fair Warning” kicks arse
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
by Pittsblitz56 on Jan 31, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Their new single makes me sick
Have you seen the video?!? What’s with Eddie wearing New Balance shoes?!? It’s depressing thinking that he’s reached the “I don’t care how I look I just want to be comfortable” stage of his career.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
I myself am just glad he seems healthy and happy.
Since the mid-‘90s, he’s battled cancer, a bad hip and, perhaps worst of all, alcoholism. During those years of silence, so many people were ready for the day they would wake up to ready his obituary on TMZ. And I speak for a large contingent of the VH fan community when I say that.
As far as the new music goes, don’t let Tattoo fool you into thinking Ed’s lost it. Samples of each song on the album have surfaced and, from the sounds of the samples, it might just end up being the worst song on the disc. Certainly sounding like the least “classic VH” tune. Here’s one of the album cuts.
Those who can...do.
Those who can't... post on message boards using a screen name boasting the name of those who can.
by Craig Sager's Wardrobe on Jan 31, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think he’s lost it, the guitar work on the song isn’t bad, I just think it’s a dumb song.
I am really glad to hear it could be the worst song on the disc though. A bunch of friends of mine from high school and I have an email chain that’s been going on since we were freshmen in college, and it blew up after the release of that song. We all pretty much gave up on them, but I’m still planning on seeing them when they’re here in March.
Thanks for the link
Works been nuts, not enough time for everything.
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
Definitely not their best
Still a huge VH fan and anything Eddie is good
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
give ol’ boy a chance. if he crash, he crash. if he fly, he fly! like the cardinals of 09.
this would be one of the most exciting moves the steelers have made in yurs
It hasn’t been officially announced, but whether it’s Haley or Clements or Fitchner(?), it is indeed exciting to think next year opposing defenses have nothing on the O.
Arians was predictable and inflexible with game plans, sometimes genius. Just not enough genius consistently, especially in the red zone. This may have even come from inside – Tomlin, Roethlisberger, Fitch. Rooney’s take the fall. Last year’s contract was because of the shortened off season and prep time. Supposedly easier for veteran teams. Times up.
lol
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
+1
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 1, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose
by Twell on Jan 31, 2012 5:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
lol
For a moment I thought is was a bare bones A.D.&D. map.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
A map for people with attention deficit disor....oh, lunch.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons
The game without a board that was played whilst eating cheezies and drinking cola.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 1, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Played it quite a bit in college myself...
….growing my Druid character to a very high level before being betrayed by a Dungeon Master with a twisted dark side.
Don’t remember drinking cola though; it was something else…and the “eating cheezies” was more a by-product of another indulgence – lol !
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
My AD&D group
My AD&D group (all IT people at the time when it formed) included a VP (formerly a director at our firm but he left for the promotion), a director, an assistant director, 2 managers, head of a programming team and me (low man on the totem pole). We played on week nights which meant alcohol consumption was kept to a minimum especially after the VP went home half drunk (his wife was not amused) because my next door neighbour (she decided this guy was cute and was hoping he would stay over) dropped by and quietly poured my bottle of whiskey into his coke a bit at a time. Happily he caught a ride home from one of the other guys but his wife wouldn’t let him play anywhere but his place after that.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 4, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Nice Twell, nice.
Rec’d
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 1, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
Would be different and intriguing to say the least
I may have mentioned before that my brother and Haley were best friends while playing football in middle school when we lived in Pittsburgh. We moved a few years later but I remember him and my brother pal-ing around. They lived down the street when his dad was in the midst of his career at the Steelers. I mention that only to confirm his deep Pittsburgh roots. I’m sure Haley would be thrilled to coach in Pittsburgh as a kid growing up watching them in their heyday of the late 70s.
He definitely has a strong personality and may be gruff and demanding. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. I’m sure he comes off as an arrogant bastard much of the time but you would think the ups and downs of coaching may have worn off a few rough edges at this point. Coming back to Pittsburgh and working for the Steelers could be the situation which will enable him to excel. Great organization, good players and competent ownership gives him or any coach a better chance of succeeding than almost anywhere else.
I have mostly liked his Xs and Os from what I have seen over the years. KC was dessimated by injuries later in his tenure. At the beginning, they were still suffering from a roster with numerous malcontents and whiners. Wasn’t that the era of Larry Johnson and others publicly complaining about everything?
Not for certain he is the guy but it would make for some headlines and lots of buzz. Not normally the “Steeler way” but something tells me Art Rooney II wants to make a statement with this hire. It may be – “It’s Mike’s decision and we support it fully” or “We feel this is a good hire for the Steelers organization”. Either way, you know he is very interested if not intimately involved. He expressed his dissatisfaction with the offense a few seasons ago and that was not the “Steeler way” either.
"Franz" in NoCal
He didn't come arrogant at all
He did come off wanting to win more than anyone I ever saw. He talked a lot about the success of the Steelers as a model for KC. This year he talked about the 89 Steelers after the team got off to a rough start. Most people in KC wish he was still coaching here.
You guys will be locked and loaded if you pick up Haley
He’s 100% winner and you’ll get 100% + from everyone he coaches. Most fans in KC would of kept him and fired Pioli. Haley is one hell of a good coach, he’ll get the absolute best out of your boys.
I have to say I am REALLY digging the Chief's fans love for Haley...
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 1, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
Unless they're playing the Trojan Horse game...
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Well...
that is some devious thinking. Hadn’t considered that, but seem genuine. Although I don’t see the upside, it won’t change the minds of the decision makers, only the fans perspective.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 1, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
I agree that it is nice to see the fan support
I still don’t want him but I have to respect those fans for their support.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 1, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it does make me feel a lot more secure about the prospect
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 2, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
True
but I am thinking they are not going with Haley till they have exhausted other possibilities, otherwise they would have hired him already.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 2, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure you are correct on that note
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 2, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Sometimes people do not make a good HC but are brilliant
OC or DC. wade phillips is a brilliant DC but a really poor HC.
it seemed at times the offense was playing half asleep if haley can light a fire under their @$$ then that might be a good thing.
by steeler_in_maryland on Jan 31, 2012 6:41 PM EST reply actions
Yes, absolutely
Todd Haley is the offensive equivalent of Wade Phillips. Agree 100 percent.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
who do want Tom Clements ?
nothing in his profile suggests that he would run the ball more than BA. GB learned the hard way what having no running game does to you. The Giants in the second game played keep away and they won. The same thing with NO they had no clock control.
Ravens though have the opposite problem by running too much and not having a passing game.
by steeler_in_maryland on Jan 31, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
You're acting like he'd have a choice
The coordinator calls the game based on what the head coach wants called.
Far too much emphasis on this board about the specific plays being called. It’s not simply about that, it’s about the game plan, about preparing the team, knowing your opponent inside and out, being aware of the strengths and weaknesses of every player you have, and, as a byproduct of that, having success with a play call.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Tomlins style of leadership is delegation not hands on
I am sure he has a say in the game plan but I get the feel he is more of a defensive guy and not a offense guy.
by steeler_in_maryland on Jan 31, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Delegation is telling him he wants the ball run x amount of times when in the red zone, and y amount of runs called overall unless told otherwise.
Hands-on would be telling him to check with him on each play call.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
no what you describe is
the difference between being a micro manager and a blatant dictator.
Delegation is where you tell them that you want to hit a goal and then letting them be a professional as to how they go about it.
You have obviously never spent time around a football team
In corporate America, your definition is closer to the reality, but it’s certainly not the case on a football team.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
p.s.
Run the ball x times in the red zone is a goal. Those are the kinds of goals coaches tell the guys calling the plays to achieve. That can be adjusted in game, they’re often seen as something flexible, but overall, that’s the direction the coach wants.
In fact, the coordinator usually scripts the games first 10 or 15 plays, and the head coach checks off on them before the coordinator puts them in.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
You are right about game planning and even scripting at times but
that all depends upon the HC, his style and his expertise on that side of the ball. Most head coaches are not telling the coordinator what play to call or even to run or pass on any specific play. If in FG range or at the goalline, yes they get involved directly many times but not throughout the course of the game.
The coordinator needs to develop a flow in his play calling and that is gained by what success or failure you had the play before in large part. Big difference between 2nd and 2 or 2nd and 8. The play calling is momentary but is backed up by the scouting and game planning beforehand. Also, success or failue in prior series with certain play types and formations is noted progressively. The OC is looking to call plays vs anticipated defensive alignments and adjustments. If those anticipated scenarios are not what he sees in-game, then that changes the tactical play calling.
So, with all that going on in his head – there isn’t a lot of time for continuous HC input. The HCs wanting that kind of control are usually the play caller themselves. I would imagine Tomlin is doing what a lot of HCs do during the game, saying things like “Next series, let’s take a shot” or “Next series let’s run the ball and run some clock” or “Run it left and we’ll kick the FG on 4th down”.
"Franz" in NoCal
I'll see your Wade Phillips and raise you a Norv Turner
It’s called being promoted to the point of incompetency. Sometimes one step back is the perfect fit.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 1, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
No, I agree with that, it’s totally true (Peter’s Principle of Economics, which I’m lobbying we re-name the Goodell Principle of Logic), I’m just saying the best examples we see of that today are people who had far more success than Haley has (Turner, Phillips, Lebeau).
by Neal Coolong on Feb 1, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Totally agree Neal, wasn't really arguing a point as much as accentuating one
I would also agree that we do not have a huge body of work to judge that on. I will say this though – there were a lot of folks up in arms about the Tomlin hire – he is pretty damn well loved now. I will trust in the folks meeting face to face with him and that have actual relationships (however superficial) to make the decisions, and at this point I am not sure there are any other qualified candidates I would push over Haley anyway. I do believe that if he is brought in, you will eventually end up liking the move. But of course I have been wrong before. The FO seems to usually get it right though.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 1, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
I'd take a great OC
He’s been a head coach, I’ve never had a problem with grabbing a fired head coach, it doesn’t kill me if he’s viewed as an asshole, maybe it just means he’s more aggressive than passive and doesn’t settle for someone to half ass it through the game
Success With honor
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 31, 2012 7:18 PM EST reply actions
If nothing else, he made a great gif:
Success With honor
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 31, 2012 7:19 PM EST reply actions
lol
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 31, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
What is Flacco doing here?
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
by Riddlah. on Jan 31, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ernie loling in the background
must have said something about wide left
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Feb 1, 2012 7:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
On Haley...
He is a straight forward in your face coach. He works great at getting the WR to understand all the important parts of route running. He did a great job with Breaston in AZ and Bowe in KC. He knows how to adjust to his roster and can manufacture yards.
In a year when many speculated Ben wasn’t listening to the coaching staff or forcing them in a situation why not have a guy who will challenge Ben to make the right reads and throw the ball instead of holding on to it every play.
Look what the guy did with Matt Cassel. If he can make Matt Cassel have a Pro Bowl year when they had a bad o-line and no WRs then imagine what he can do with our receiving corps and Ben Roethlisberger.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
Gotta know your QB
I think Ben is going to hate this guy. Although I agree that Ben had too much freedom under Arians, we don’t need an OC that is going to piss him off and perhaps cause locker room issues. I thought Clements was a great choice because he could make Ben a better player without letting him totally run the show. Haley will be like Whisenhunt on Steroids, and I think the Steelers don’t need that kind of drama.
by Steelerfaninboston on Jan 31, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Ben is quite a bit older now too
Maybe a bit more mature and able to take criticism (guess not fact)? I am hoping for the best on this one.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 1, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
"I think Ben is gonna hate this guy"
I think you’re not giving him credit for being a professional. Ben is interested in one thing – winning.
Said so in another thread.....
Knee jerk reaction was firmly against it.
But the more I think about it the more I think he may be a good fit. His personality and maybe his evaluation of talent are my biggest concerns.
The fact that he through the ball in Arizona and the fact that he ran the ball a ton in KC demonstrates to me he can adapt to his personnel and isn’t a slave to HIS preference *cough Arians *cough.
Pardon my being out of touch...
Can someone please briefly outline the incidents about Haley that have been referred to? Thank you.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
The refusal to shake McDaniels hand after a loss against Denver
An alleged offensive genius only created offense through a big-play running back he wasn’t a part of drafting, and even went out to sign a veteran (Thomas Jones) to play ahead of him.
Sideline beratings of veterans such as Anquan Boldin
Termination of offensive coordinator Chan Gailey after three preseason games, thus destroying an off-season of work because Haley himself clearly would not need a veteran mentor in his first head coaching job
Two previous stints both had him in charge of one-dimensional offenses; passing in AZ (with Warner and Fitzgerald) and Kansas City (all run with Jones and emerging stud Charles). The Steelers don’t have players like the guys who carried Haley’s offenses.
And that I just don’t like him. Admittedly.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
That’s just my take. Plenty of people on here are in favor of Haley’s potential hire, and make good arguments for adding him. Most of that seems to be based in a “he’s not a feces-slinging monkey like Arians” motif.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
So when was Arians supposed to addapt his offense to suit the steelers talent in the run game? How many steeler o lineman have made the pro bowl since Fanaca left?
by Micculus on Jan 31, 2012 9:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions
After the 09 season. The run game came back in 10, but left again in 11 – although some would argue the opportunity wasn’t always there. I think he could have run a bit more, but it wasn’t as pass heavy as some say. Yards per carry were pretty decent this year, without really any big runs after Week 5.
Pouncey went to the Pro Bowl in 2010. No others since Faneca left in 08.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Conider this
Maybe BA was let go because Haley and Caldwell were available this year and wouldn’t be after another 1 Yr deal with Arians . The team needs consistency and has about a five year window to take few more shots with Ben , Troy ,et al. The roonys know they have a contender and they’re gearing up to make the most of it . Haley grew up in black and gold, had success with whisenhunt, it makes sense to me. Maybe they know something we don’t.
by Micculus on Jan 31, 2012 10:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Could be…I guess we’ll wait and see what happens. I don’t even know if we have better options anyway.
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
Chiefs fan here
Haley wasn’t as bad as people link him to be. He was well respected from the players and he wasn’t offered the right opportunities in Kansas City. I think the Steelers need to at least give this guy a chance. I’d like to see if he honestly is good or if he tanks.
Haley has passion and is willing to take chances. Remember in 2009, when the Chiefs beat the Steelers…oh wait, footage time ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVtcc3mTErA&context=C39c3c82ADOEgsToPDskIMpfRhvuckLSDrqpr-A2uO
My girlfriend is a Steelers fan so she’ll keep me updated on everything.
Well, thank you
Hey…you guys did beat us during the 2011 season, but next season will be more fun.
You know if Haley goes to the Steelers, maybe they can pick up Tyler Palko as well ;)
We already had him!
It’s another team’s turn. Oakland, perhaps?
by Neal Coolong on Jan 31, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Tanked implies he is a failure
Belichick didn’t start out so hot but that was no true indicator of his talent as a coach long term. Guys like Dick Vermeil and Marv Levy had lots of success but also had down years with numerous teams. Talent is the first prerequisite of any winning coach.
"Franz" in NoCal
thanks I have permentaly forgoten the 2009 season
even though that loss was tough it still was not tough as losing to the browns that year. all i can see is that 3rd and one and ben taking a sac. that was worst moment as a steeler fan. our former OC did not run the ball once against a 32 ranked rush defense. it was awful.
by steeler_in_maryland on Jan 31, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not willing to have the Steelers be the laboratory where we find out if he’s good or a tanker. One leads to wins, the other losses. One is acceptable across Steeler nation, the other not so much.
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
by Fifty-Eight on Feb 1, 2012 5:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Can we get Branden Albert and one of those cornerbacks to come with him ???
by Micculus on Jan 31, 2012 10:29 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Hey xxflashxx
You got any footage of that Hank Stram superbowl from 1840 or just meaningless regular season stuff?
by Micculus on Jan 31, 2012 10:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Ha...
So what if we haven’t won a Superbowl in 42 years…we still have a lengendary franchise.
Lamar Hunt was an extrodinary man. I miss Marty Schottenheimer.
you may be the first person to utter the words “I miss Marty Schottenheimer”
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
marty did play for the steelers as a linebacker, traded to the steelers in the offseason, then trade to the colts before the season started. yup. about the right amount of time he needed to spend here.
was fun to poke at him when he coached the browns tho (anyone remember when steelers, bengals, oilers all made the playoffs and the brownies were the only ones who didn’t?)
good times
Good call
Until this year, that was the last time more than two teams from the Steelers division made the playoffs.
Worse is that Snyder didn't give him a real chance in Washington
That meddlesome dude can’t get out of his own way to let football people coach his teams.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 1, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
.......
George Carlin : "I used a lot of cocaine, and man, it was fun."
by steeltech on Jan 31, 2012 10:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
About as much as I want muddy cowboy boots on my couch
Formerly known as Steeler_
BTSC's token Kiwi fan. That means I'm a New Zealander. Yes, that small country next to Australia....no we are not part of Australia
by Michael Hewitt on Jan 31, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
F*ck Yo Couch
I dont think Haley is a bad guy. I dont even hate his personality. Its just that the only images I have of him are when hes fired up and screaming and I dont see how that can be accepted with the Steelers. Funny, I saw him scream more than anyone and yet hes not an ass like the harbaughs. Its one of those decisions I can watch develop and hope my impression of certain coaches wont cloud my opinion of any moves the FO makes with this offense.
George Carlin : "I used a lot of cocaine, and man, it was fun."
cowher was screaming his head off and I guess he had a few expletive
out his mouth. so does that make cowher less of a coach
by steeler_in_maryland on Jan 31, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Cowher was worked up.
He wasn’t inherently a phallus majorus.
He screamed, but there’s a HUGE difference between what Cowher was doing and Haley. Add a mouth that throws people under busses, chastises players openly in a demeaning fashion on the sideline, etc. etc.
Besides….we all went to school with this guy. He was the ass whose identity was tough guy football. Cowher? His was in his family first and foremost.
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
Haha, my reply was more a reference to his gif
Eh, like I said after Bruce Arians, at least we knew what we had with him, he certainly was not as bad as many people seem to think he was.
I’m neutral on it. Once we make a hire, then I will decide whether to agree with it or not. Haley has a solid resume, but he almost seems too “big name” to be brought in.
Formerly known as Steeler_
BTSC's token Kiwi fan. That means I'm a New Zealander. Yes, that small country next to Australia....no we are not part of Australia
by Michael Hewitt on Feb 1, 2012 4:14 AM EST up reply actions
What did the five fingers say to the face?
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
I can't express myself any stronger without using profanity ;)
Haley is a dick.
If Haley comes on board, he steps in line.
He shuts his mouth, he understands WE have accomplished more than he has, or ever will. So in that case, he puts his head down and goes to work.
He draws up schemes, he coordinates with Tomlin and the other coaches.
He shuts his big fat yapping hot-headed no-filter mouth of his.
He rereads line three, and understands line one.
We will have an O.C. again sooner than later, so don’t unpack too much in your office.
Your dad worked here. Whoopee. You have no tenure.
Nevermind. He’s just not welcomed here. I can’t stand the #$%&@!
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
Why Todd Haley
I dont understand the negative comments here on Todd. The fact is no one really knows him and the fact that you post personal comments that are negative are your right , but are ignorant. Ive been a proud Steelers fan for 30 some odd years, and the biggest characteristic, of the Steelers organization, that I am proud of is there class. I disliked BA as much as the other fans here, but some of the rhetoric written on him was just tasteless. I like Todds emotion(think Bill Cowher), and I personally have new founded hope for our offense with him. Unfounded fear can cause us to lose potential diamonds in the ruff. I trust our leaders to make the right choice.
I’m not sure anything I said can be characterized as personal attacks on him. My tone may be a bit strong for your tastes, but that’s how I feel about him.
You are right, class is paramount in the Steelers’ organization. I don’t feel Todd Haley’s past shows us great examples of that class. That’s one of the reasons I don’t feel he’s right for the job.
You’re excited about the prospect of him joining the coaching staff, and that’s fine. I have my reservations, and that’s fine. We can discuss it, throw down a bit and in the end, walk away knowing more about the other point of view. That’s all I’m trying to do here.
The Steelers neither need our trust nor our opinion on the matter, and I don’t think they’ll weigh in with the fans on who they think should run their offense. However, we’re here to discuss it, not to empower them to make decisions. All opinions are welcome and encouraged.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 1, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
by Fifty-Eight on Feb 1, 2012 5:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Could there be
anyone on the Giants staff, that the Steelers may be waiting to interview?
not pointing at you, but in general
Why can Haley get emotional and is disliked and Cowher is emotional and liked? All Tomlin has to do stand by Haley if the players get in his face. This is not a player league like the NBA, and Im so glad of that. Foot bvall is a emotional sport and i for one miss Cowhers fire and passion for the game.
We're turning into the Beatdown
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Feb 2, 2012 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
Hey - penalty laps for using vulgarity!
We’re turning into the Beatdown
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
This thread was an entertaining read
Formerly known as Steeler_
BTSC's token Kiwi fan. That means I'm a New Zealander. Yes, that small country next to Australia....no we are not part of Australia
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