With the 24th Selection in the 2012 NFL Draft... The Steelers Trade Up
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 8:44 AM EST
in 2012 Steelers Draft
Email
Print
You don't need to be Jimmy Johnson, dangling Herschel Walker in front of a naive Vikings organization to enact the concept of duplicity in the 2012 NFL Draft.
You simply need to be in the right spot, just as someone else's right player becomes available. By handing in a few extra picks, a team can move up to grab a player they feel they need moreso than the other players available.
It could go up, and it could go down. The "up" this year, as far as Pittsburgh is concerned, centers around Stanford offensive guard David DeCastro. The question isn't the talent or the need, it's the price.
A smart and mobile guard, DeCastro would start from Day 1, filling arguably the Steelers' biggest position of need. The question in regards to trading up isn't usually about the talent of the player a team would draft, but rather, what they'll need to give up to get him.
In the Steelers' case for DeCastro, he may simply be out of reach. It's a strong team, top to bottom, but there are some obvious holes, ones that need to get plugged quickly. While a good portion of SteelerNation suggests the need to draft 2012 starters in the top three rounds of the draft, such skill and efficiency in personnel evaluation is extremely difficult to obtain. A team starting three rookies drafted in the first three rounds is typically not coming off a 12-4 season, but rather, heading toward a 6-10 season.
Using that logic, if DeCastro is truly a second coming of Steve Hutchinson, locking up that kind of player can be worth a few less picks in this draft.
The problem is, the Steelers aren't the only ones likely to see DeCastro as a very positive addition to their team. There isn't a franchise that wouldn't benefit from the addition of the 6-foot-4, light-footed and highly intelligent interior offensive lineman. Because of that, DeCastro could become to become the highest drafted guard since Chris Naeole went 10th overall to New Orleans in 1997.
Taking a guard between picks 15-19 has been sort of en vogue the last four years. In 2008, the Chiefs took Branden Albert No. 15 overall (he was a guard at the University of Virginia but has played left tackle for the Chiefs). Mike Iupati went 17th overall to San Francisco in 2010 and Miami selected Mike Pouncey (plays center for the Dolphins) 15th overall in 2011.
It's hard to see Kansas City passing on DeCastro at 11 or 12. The Chiefs and Seattle are subject to a coin flip at the Combine Feb. 22 for the rights to the 11th pick.
Going off Jimmy Johnson's Trade Chart (the concept, if not the exact numbers, are what teams use to weigh trading decisions) suggests jumping ahead to No. 12 from No. 24 would cost the Steelers their first, second and fourth round picks in this year's draft. It would probably have to be a first, second and third to move to the 11th spot.
Or, a bit more than the Steelers gave up to leap from 27 to 16 (first, third and sixth) to draft USC SS Troy Polamalu in 2003.
Incidentally, that trade was with Kansas City.
It may just simply be that DeCastro is out of reach. However, Kansas City has other needs (tackle), but DeCastro is a better prospect than any tackle who is likely to still be on the board at 11.
Considering no guard has gone as high as 11 in quite some time, it's possible he may fall, and the Steelers should consider trading up if it doesn't mean mortgaging this draft for his services.
This is the second part in a collaborative effort from the editorial staff at BTSC, providing some arguments behind possible positional directions the Steelers may go with their first round pick - currently scheduled for the 24th overall. These will be posted each day this week, and will not be distributed based on order of preference.
121 comments
|
Add comment
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
It's me
Or every single team in this league complains about o-line? I listened days ago that the Giants line, except Chris Snee, was horrible (unhappily, I can’t say anything deeper about it). Steelers fans says the Bengals o-line is better than the Steelers own line. And Bengals fans blame the o-line for the lacking of efficient rushing game and somewhat irregular pass protection. And the Bengals pass-rush did a fine job this year and stopping the run wasn’t an issue until the end of the season (supposedly, because o-lines weren’t that good and, therefore, needing upgrades). If we ask Ravens fans, they’ll have one or two things about their line, AND David DeCastro probably will be off the board soon after the 10th pick, and none of the teams I cited will pick him. I didn’t even say Brady got pwned during SB.
D*mn, build an good o-line is quite hard.
+1
You’re spot-on, good sir. I agree with everything you said.
No, it isn’t easy to get five guys who are not only talented but work well together doing something that involves strict attention to detail and intense mental preparation, but keeping those five guys healthy in an extremely physical job.
At some point, we should probably begin to look at 1.) the talent of the pass rushing specialists around the league. 2.) The amount of times teams are throwing the ball and how that relates to defensive game-planning.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks
For the “good sir”. I’m not used to that. :)
I would approach your points about pass rushing specialists and the amount of times the ball is thrown (and defensive game-planning), because these are major factors about the production of any o-line. But the comment got bigger than expected.
Yeah, clearly, I absolutely hate long comments…ahem…
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
I find its the same with offensive coordinators
thats why i wasnt a rabid arians hater like everyone else seemed to be
Is DeCastro the only player worth trading up for?
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 14, 2012 9:17 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Courtney Upshaw?
That’s if you think Worilds isn’t going to pan out
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
Dude's a beast
You can never have too many pass rushers, right?
What do you think of Brockers?
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
Love his motor and he is so quick off the snap. I think he needs to work on his hands and leverage. Are you thinking as a 3-4 DE?
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
I’m stuck thinking of sub packages, Geno Atkins kinds of roles for athletic pass rushing interior guys. He doesn’t need to play in the base 3-4 (right away, at least), but stand him up, move him all over. Lebeau loves bringing pressure inside, and Brockers looks quick enough to get inside on guards.
His hands aren’t great though, I agree, and that’s why I could see him falling within trade-up range. I just love raw, SEC-bred talent.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
Do you think
That the Steelers would trade up to replace a backup? Or would that signify the end for Deebo?
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 14, 2012 9:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well, he is on the wrong side of 30.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
He's also a demi-god
And he really started his career much later.
I think we still have 2-3 years out of Deebo but we should definitely get another OLB in this draft, Worilds may be good but after him who do you got?
Trading up is really situational, and it’s obviously targeting one player. I don’t think the Steelers would fundamentally be opposed to trading up for a guy who isn’t going to start from Day 1, but I think they’d shy away if he’s in no way ready to compete for snaps.
Pouncey won the starting job in camp, but Polamalu and Holmes weren’t starters right away. Sort of depends on the position. I don’t think anyone could come in and supplant Harrison next year (barring injury), but Harrison will be tough to keep in 2013.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I guess if they see someone as the next Lawrence Taylor (minus the coke), they’d make that move.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 14, 2012 9:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
A starter from day 1
Also, from a talent perspective, the player would need to be vastly superior than the rest of the players available at the position.
by Greig Clawson on Feb 14, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Upshaw is interesting case
Watched him several times and while I like him as a player, he is a little too big to be a great pass rusher. Mike Mayock was talking about him not having an elite “getoff” during the Senior Bowl as well.
If you watch him closely he doesn’t really bend the corner that often, partly because Saban doesn’t ask his OLBs to play like a Harrison or a Ware and just rush the passer. He looked very good in the championship game, especially against the run. Upshaw talked about losing some weight before the combine so that he could get faster, but I’m not really sure how much quicker he can get with that frame.
Its a shame, because that would be a classic Steeler pick.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 14, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Is DeCastro worth mortgaging the 2012 Draft for....???
…because historically, the Steelers have been FAR more successful in the lower draft rounds (3 through 5) than in the first two rounds.
Is DeCastro another Polamalu; that “once a generation” athlete who will last far longer than the average pick at that position?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Feb 14, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
It’s tough to compare him to a different position player, but I’d say an argument could be made about Steve Hutchinson being a Polamalu-like guard in terms of ability and consistent dominance at his position. DeCastro has similar skills to Hutchinson – very athletic, lean (in younger years) but technically proficient. Combine his quickness with his technique and he just bashes guys on pulls and has no problem reaching that second level. He’s also really intelligent, has great character and has played in a pro offense for three years. He’s as pro ready as any player in the draft, including his former quarterback.
If we apply recent Steelers history to it, in 2003, they were coming off a decent year (10-5-1, one playoff win), but they lacked a real dynamic safety. they traded up, it worked out well. In 2006, they were coming off a Super Bowl win, but lacked a real vertical-challenging receiver. They traded up for Holmes, and it worked out well (for a little bit).
Just my opinion, but I think the precedent is there to trade up, but they gotta move a bit further ahead than they did in 06 and 03. If he’s on the board at 15, though, I think they look to make a move.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
You really think they are more successful in the 3-5 than 1st? Our best players are first rounders, no? Ben, Mendy, Heath, Pouncey, Hamptonm Timmons, Troy.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You're exactly right
I think that’s where the artistry of Kevin Colbert comes in to play. By what you said (and I agree with it, with the obvious exceptions of Ike Taylor, LaMarr Woodley, James Harrison, etc.), if he’s a first round pick, he’s one of the Steelers best players.
Transitive property: If the Steelers draft a player in the first round, he’ll be one of our best players. Obviously that’s not a guarantee, but it SHOULD be. Recent history supports that claim.
So if the Steelers are on the clock at 24, they SHOULD draft a guy who’s capable of being one of their best players. To me, that goes beyond the position. Take the whole draft pool, and pare it down to just the guys who are worth being a first round pick. Then take the ones still available, and worth being the 24th pick.
From there, you get into positions. Take out QB, all kickers, any other position you feel you already have enough ahead of that position to not merit a first-round pick.
From that list, look at the positions, and weigh the best players at the positions you’ve targeted as priorities in this draft. That piece is all science, but the art comes in weighing the best combination of positional need and overall talent.
If that player will not soon become similarly skilled in comparison to the other first round picks the Steelers have taken, they should not draft him, regardless of what position he plays. If there is a guard at 24 who’s worth the 24th pick, I’d bet the Steelers would take him. If there just isn’t, then yeah, they’re gonna have to repeat the process in later rounds and see what they come up with.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
one more point
the guy we draft in the first round not only must be all of the things you stated above, but also have the CHARACTER. Colbert never drafted a talented guy in the first round who lacked character. We don’t draft Dez Bryants in the first round. And that’s the cornerstone of Colbert’s success as a GM.
Didn’t Santonio have three kids from three different women when he was drafted at 21 years of age?
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
And Troy
…jk
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
I thought that was Cromartie
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 14, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Bluntonio
Never did no wrong, just wanted to hit that peace pipe a little bit. Obviously it helped him get two toes inbounds in the biggest game of his life.
In California nobody would have cared at all.
He did do wrong, he smashed a beer stein or something over some girls face. He was also causing problems in the locker room. Also, I don’t have anything against that, but I do have a problem with getting caught, then caught again, then caught again. No matter how relaxed your views are on it, the fact is, he knows the NFL doesn’t allow it. He didn’t care that he’d be hurting his team.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Our draft history shows this is the right way to go
As Mr. Coolong said above, DeCastro is as sure a thing as any player in the draft right now. We have not truly whiffed in the 1st round since 1999 when we took Edwards. Here iare our draft picks dating back to 1999:
2011:
1-31 Cameron Heyward DE
2-63 Marcus Gilbert T
3-95 Curtis Brown DB
4-128 Cortez Allen DB
5-162 Chris Carter LB
6-196 Keith Williams G
7-Baron Batch RB
2010 -
1-18 Maurkice Pouncey C
2-52 Jason Worilds LB
3-82 Emmanuel Sanders WR
4-116 Thaddeus Gibson LB
5-151 Chris Scott T
5-164 Crezdon Butler DB
5-166 Stevenson Sylvester LB
6-188 Jonathan Dwyer RB
6-195 Antonio Brown WR
7-242 Doug Worthington DE
2009
1-32 Ziggy Hood DT
3-79 Kraig Urbik T
3- 84 Mike Wallace WR
3-96 Keenan Lewis DB
5-168 Joe Burnett DB
5-169 Frank Summers RB
6-205 Ra’Shon Harris DT
7-226 A.Q. Shipley C
7-241 David Johnson TE
2008
1- 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB
2-53 Limas Sweed WR
3-88 Bruce Davis LB
4-130 Tony Hills T
5-156 Dennis Dixon QB
6-188 Mike Humpal OLB
6-194 Ryan Mundy FS
2007
1-15 Lawrence Timmons LB
2- 46 LaMarr Woodley LB
3-77 Matt Spaeth TE
4-112 Daniel Sepulveda P
4-132 Ryan McBean DE
5-156 Cameron Stephenson G
5-170 William Gay CB
7-227 Dallas Baker WR
2006
1-25 Santonio Holmes WR
3-83 Anthony Smith DB
3-95 Willie Reid WR
4-131 Willie Colon T
4-133 Orien Harris DT
5-164 Omar Jacobs QB
5-167 Charles Davis TE
6-201 Marvin Philip C
7-240 Cedric Humes RB
2005
1-30 Heath Miller TE
2-62 Bryant McFadden DB
3-93 Trai Essex T
4-131 Fred Gibson WR
5-166 Rian Wallace LB
6-204 Chris Kemoeatu G
7-228 Shaun Nua DE
7-244 Noah Herron RB
2004
1-11 Ben Roethlisberger QB
2-38 Ricardo Colclough CB
3-75 Max Starks T
5-145 Nathaniel Adibi DE
6-177 Bo Lacy T
6-194 Matt Kranchick TE
6-197 Drew Caylor C
7-212 Eric Taylor DT
2003
1-16 Troy Polamalu DB
2-59 Alonzo Jackson LB
4-125 Ike Taylor CB
5-163 Brian St. Pierre QB
7-242 J.T. Wall
2002
1-30 Kendall Simmons G
2-62 Antwaan Randle El WR
3-94 Chris Hope DB
4-128 Larry Foote ILB
5-166 Verron Haynes RB
6-202 Lee Mays WR
7-212 LaVar Glover CB
7-242-Brett Keisel DE
2001
1-19 Casey Hampton NT
2-39 Kendrell Bell ILB
4-111 Mathias Nkwenti T
5-146 Chukky Okobi C
6-181 Rodney Bailey DE
6-182 Roger Knight LB
7-218 Chris Taylor
2000
1-8 Plaxico Burress WR
2-38 Marvel Smith T
3-72 Kendrick Clancy NT
3-77 Hank Poteat CB
4-103 Danny Farmer WR
5-137 Clark Haggans LB
5-163 Tee Martin QB
6-173 Chris Combs DE
6-204 Jason Gavadza TE
1999
1-13 Troy Edwards WR
2-59 Scott Shields DB
3-73 Joey Porter LB
3-74 Kris Farris T
3-95 Amos Zereoue RB
4-109 Aaron Smith DE
5-136 Jerame Tuman TE
5-166 Malcolm Johnson WR
7-214 Antonio Dingle DT
7-219 Chad Kelsay LB
7-228 Kris Brown
Based on the success we have had in the 1st round, and our failures in 3-5, particuarly taking QBs in round 5, I hope we do everything we can to guarantee that we move up and grab DeCastro.
I'm your huckleberry
You aren't allowed to use the name of the first-round pick from 1999 on this site.
Kidding. Sort of.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough....
I still get sick thinking about that selection and out 2nd rounder in 2004… which I have always asssumed happened because we were still celebrating getting Ben in the 1st.
I'm your huckleberry
Yeah, their evaluation of the corner position has improved a bit since then.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Nope, I meant 2004
I can still Coclough missing those punts and costing us games, etc. At least Jackson had the decency to suck right from the outset
I'm your huckleberry
DeCastro
Do you really think DeCastro will go as high as 11th? It seems a little odd to pick up a OL, however talented with the same pick that got us our franchise QB.
That said, I think trading up for either a OL or maybe the NT people are talking about would be the best idea. As CLK47’s graph points out, the Steelers have a pretty good track record when trading up.
"Kompromise, my friend, is the essence of diplomacy, and diplomacy is the kornerstone of love... sweeeeeet looooOOOve"
by CheekyMonkey on Feb 15, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Luke Kuechly
extremely instinctive ILB and a great leader. would be a great pair with Timmons
by steel.curtain.number2 on Feb 14, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
He could fall. He’s not the biggest guy out there. Tough for some teams to pull the trigger on a guy in the top half of round 1 if he needs basically a redshirt year to bulk up.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
You dont need a whole year to bulk up
Just the whole summer really. Now getting the “grown man strength” that Casey Hampton was talking about? That will take a few years.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 14, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
A bad combine could make him plummet. I read somewhere on a site the other day that ILBs rarely go high in the draft.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
It’s not as much a position of need as your standard top-15 guys: QB, OT, WR, CB, OLB/DE.
You get a few here and there, you’ve got McLain from a few years back, Jerrod Mayo was 10 overall I think. Cushing’s an inside guy, he was top 15 I think.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Cushing was an OLB at USC though
And he still went high, just like Timmons.
Kuechly isn’t as athletic as those two, but has better instincts and is a smarter player than both of them. I’d take that kid in the 1st and wouldn’t look back. Classic Steeler pick.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 14, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Will he fall?
I don’t know much about him, but if he runs really well at the Combine I would figure he’s not gonna get past Philadelphia.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
If he doesn't run a good 40, then anything can happen
I’m kinda hoping Burfict performs well, so that some team takes him instead of Kuechly. Plus, there are a lot of DEs in this draft, so we could see a run on them in the 1st.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 14, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
I starting to see him as a 2nd rounder.
Name the last non uber talented LB to get drafted in the 1st? Is he better now than Laurinaitis was when he came out? I don’t think so. The same may apply to Hightower depending on how they perform at the combine.
I'm getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
"It would be tough for me to care less about their opinion, to be honest with you." Mike Tomlin
I found the quote I was talking about
Luke Kuechly: Only once in the last 10 years has more than one ILB been a first round pick (except for position switches later in a career), and recently Rey Maualuga, James Laurinaitis, Paul Posluszny, and Brandon Spikes (among others) have all found themselves in the second round. For as great as Kuechly has been, Laurinaitis and Posluszny were nearly his equal. I don’t believe I have seen a mock draft without Kuechly in the first round. I guess mine will ge the first?
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Ingram
Konz if we think he’d be an upgrade at guard.
I'm getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
"It would be tough for me to care less about their opinion, to be honest with you." Mike Tomlin
20th
I know it is unlikely , but if DeCasto. Upshaw or Klutchy falls to 19 – 20. I hope they trade up.
The more I learn -The less I think I know! Just enjoy reading and sharing.
My only problem with Kuechly is size
He’s very good in coverage, but his size makes him a liability against the run. He could stand to put on some muscle.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
He can get bigger
But sometimes I worry about his sideline-to-sideline quickness. He looks great a lot of times, but then when he’s playing against a more athletic team (like FSU this past season) he looks kinda average.
Even saying that, he looks like a classic Steeler pick.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 14, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
He does
He’s a great kid too. I’ve seen some of the interviews with him. He’s smart, well-spoken, and seemingly an overall nice person.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I think thats the perfect guy to call the signals for the D for the next 10 years
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 14, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
well than you would have a problem with Timmons size too
Timmons is 234, Kuechly is 237.
Difference being that
Timmons is 6’1, which means that size is packed into a smaller frame, AKA more muscle.
And, it’s different when we have already have the Mack and need the Buck. Farrior and Foote were the Bucks to Timmons Mack.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 15, 2012 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
sorry
Kuechly
The more I learn -The less I think I know! Just enjoy reading and sharing.
The Steelers are one of the best in the NFL at drafting guys who become quality starters.
With that in mind I would not want to give up 3 picks here, as I am confident that whoever we get at 24 will be a good player, plus there’s a good chance at 1 or 2 more starters with the picks we save. But I can’t say I would be too upset at this move if it happened, Decastro looks really good.
by jedmiller71 on Feb 14, 2012 9:44 AM EST via mobile reply actions
There’s just no way this guy isn’t going to be in several Pro Bowls, right?? The rational side of me thinks like you do (stay put, draft a quality player, things work out well when you do that), but he’s a superbly technical blocker who can pull better than most guys in the league now. He can easily (and definitely will) bulk up a bit…yeah, I’m going crazy again. Love to have this guy on the Steelers.
If he survives KC and Arizona, I’ll be second-guessing a decision to not move up. If we want to run power, we need a better guard combination than Doug Legursky and Ramon Foster.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
The worst part about this is-we won’t know which way was the right call until at least 3-4 years from now when we see who pans out.
I think we will be fine either way, the worst 1st round choice in the last decade…Kendall Simmons? He was an OK starter. I’m confident in Colbert.
by jedmiller71 on Feb 14, 2012 9:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree dude
I wont be upset either way , but the Steelers always seem to get good value from their picks. Heck we used to have to sit through the draft watching them take nonskill position players in the first couple of rounds while building up their o line and def, but They seemed to do a fantastic job through the draft. This is one of the years I am looking forward to the drafting of o linemen but I dont think its wise to move up.
NO FREE CHEESE
I actually hope we stand tight and not give away draft picks. Yes I agree that decastro is a super good lineman, but there are others that are very very close to his skill set. The Steelers should settle for what they can get in the first round and continue building through the 2nd and 3rd round. The higher a player gets drafted, the more we have to pay him and with the way the Steelers cap space is right now , there isnt alot of money to give away. drafting 24th overall is a better draft spot than the teams that advanced further into the playoffs than the Steelers did so we may find the missing cog that makes the machine run better. GO STEELERS
…decastro is a super good lineman, but there are others that are very very close to his skill set.
I’m not so sure about that.
The higher a player gets drafted, the more we have to pay him and with the way the Steelers cap space is right now , there isnt alot of money to give away.
Part of the space they’re creating now will go toward the rookie pool. However, that may be an issue with trading up, you’re right.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Im just ranting a bit neal
Im a bit testy about Hines Ward being a question mark as far as being a Steeler in 2012 and I just think that they shouldnt be trying to give away draft picks to move up and then sacrificing a second and or 3 round pick they can actually grab 2 high quality linemen in the first 2 rounds , considering that the majority of our oline werent drafted that high to begin with, it should be an improvement regardless. Have a great day GO STEELERS
No worries
I rant all the time. Just sayin’, DeCastro is the best fit for the Steelers in this draft in terms of talent and need.
It’s unlikely to happen because of the price, though, not his talent. He’s worth the price, in my opinion, we just can’t afford it.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
DeCastro
I would love to have DeCastro, but I agree that the price might be too high. The price would definitely be too high to trade up to #11 or #12.
DeCastro will likely not fall past San Diego at #18. As such, the Steelers would likely have to trade up to at least #17. If the Bengals were willing to deal the #17 pick to the Steelers, it would likely cost the Steelers their 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks. In a vacuum, DeCastro might be worth such a price, as he is said to be the best G prospect to come out in years.
However, the Steelers have needs at other several positions, including ILB, NT, S and OT. Giving up 3rd and 4th round picks to get DeCastro would force them to pass on solid prospects at those other positions.
Also, the guard position is pretty deep in this year’s draft. They have a shot at getting one of several solid guard prospects in the 1st 3 rounds (Cordy Glenn, Kevin Zeitler, Brandon Washington, Amini Silatolu, and Kelechi Osemele if they see him as a guard and not a tackle). Glenn and Zeitler in particular would have a chance at starting immediately and being an upgade over what we currently have at LG. They are better off not paying the price to trade up for DeCastro, taking one of the other guards, and filling needs at their other positions.
However, if DeCastro were to fall to #20, they should definitely try to trade up for him. At #20, the Steelers would likely have to give up and a 1st and a 3rd rounder, in exchange for the Titans’ 1st and 5th rounders. This would be worth it in my opinion.
However, if DeCastro were to fall to #20, they should definitely try to trade up for him. At #20, the Steelers would likely have to give up and a 1st and a 3rd rounder, in exchange for the Titans’ 1st and 5th rounders. This would be worth it in my opinion.
We’re in Dream Land now…If that’s all we had to give up to get that player, I would be more excited about this draft than any I’ve ever been, and I’m one of those annoying people who’s always excited about our draft.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Price would be two high
If we could get away with not trading our second round pick, the idea would be great, but we need as much new, young depth as possible. I’m ringleader, president, and marching captain of team ‘Draft O-Linemen’, but trading all that opportunity for one man is denying ourselves of drafting more quality depth on both sides of the line. The Steelers have enough holes that we can fill one of them if we stand pat.
One no vote, for trade up
I’m hoping for a guard, tackle, and inside linebacker, with at least one of them starting this year, and all three starting next year.
If we have to spend any of our early picks to trade up (very far), I don’t see the above happening. We need highly skilled players at all 3 of those positions, more than we need one great one, with the other two being average.
This doesn’t even account for NT. With two first rounders used on the DL recently, issues with other positions are taking my early round priority this year.
"They timed it perfectly, they just went too soon." - Darrell Waltrip commenting on an illegal restart.
This is a unique year for the Steelers
Given our cap situation and the probable need to adopt a bit more of an “out with the old” approach than they usually take, I think there is a lower probability than usual that the Steelers would give away draft picks to trade up this year.
If important veterans are going to be cut, and we don’t have the cap room to pursue quality free agents, those draft picks are more valuable than ever for a team that believes in buiding through the draft.
I agree
I think it’d be more likely to trade down for more picks if nothing sticks out at 24.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
DeCastro will need to fall to the Jets at 16
for us to trade up for him.. theres no way the Bengals pass on him at 17, so jumping them would be a good idea. using the Troy Polamalu trade, it cost a 1st, 3rd, and 6th to go from 27 to 16. if we can move up to 16 from 24 for just a 1st and 3rd id definitely do it.
by steel.curtain.number2 on Feb 14, 2012 11:49 AM EST reply actions
I reject this idea
but then I thought it over, and it’s not that crazy of an idea. DeCastro would give the Steelers two elite players on the interior of the O-line. Assuming Colon is able to stay healthy, the weak link on the Steelers O-line would be Ramon Foster, which isn’t a bad weak link to have.
Giving away a bunch of picks would suck, but that just means that other players on the roster will need to step up. If the Steelers aren’t able to draft a NT this year, I think Ziggy can be an adequate stop gap for a year, with Heyward taking over at DE. Someone will need to step up at ILB, which means Sly finally proves he’s up to the job, or the Steelers see if they can coach up one their other back up LB’s to play the position (Chris Carter?).
Even if the defense takes a small step back, they will still be very good. The question really comes down to whether adding a talent like DeCastro on the O-line, allows the offense to generate more points, than the additional points the defense the defense gives up, due to the holes.
Cordy Glenn or Peter Konz
and keeping valuable picks in the 2nd and 4th would suit me just fine. DeCastro would be awesome, but there is no such thing as a “can’t miss” prospect, and he is no exception.
If Konz can play Guard
then he makes sense for the Steelers. Who knows if Pouncey’s ankle will hold up this year. If would be nice to have another solid player on the O-line, who can play center at a high level if something happens to Pouncey.
by Greig Clawson on Feb 14, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
At 24?
I think if he’s the best option at that point, they should go in another direction.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry
I wasn’t saying take him at 24. If they could get him in a later round, I think he has a lot of upside for the Steelers.
by Greig Clawson on Feb 14, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, his career progression will be The Future Doug Legursky to the Current Doug Legursky to Holding a Spot For the Future Doug Legursky.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Konz isn't short and fat like Legursky
And his arms aren’t mini
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
We really shouldn't take another C high in the draft
Take his teammate, Zeitler. Good pulling guard and good pass blocker. Just a solid football player in general, and doesn’t have a lot of weaknesses.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 14, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
I just mean his ability
He’s Legursky 2.0. He won’t out-muscle people. Legursky is a precision kind of guard cuz he’s not big or strong enough to maul.
Because he’s got some strength, he’ll be a first-round guy, but I don’t think he’s got enough to start at guard.
(this isn’t one of those things I “made up,” either, my brother-in-law coached at Wisconsin, watched a lot of games with him this year.)
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I personally think he has the speed and toughness to play G and I think he’s miles better than Legursky at C or G. I haven’t read a single scouting report on him that doesn’t praise his strength, especially in his lower body. And when I watched his tape, I saw him pushing guys off the line.
Agree to disagree, again. lol
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I’ve read similar stuff, I dunno, maybe my expectations are a bit lofty.
Calling him Legursky is probably a bit unfair.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
True, but...
…guys like him will only miss because of an injury.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Not even guys like Suh?
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Peyton Manning was a "cant miss" player
So was Adrian Peterson.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 14, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
well so was Ryan Leaf
ugh
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 14, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I firmly believe if Ryan Leaf came out during the Internet era, there’s no way he would have gone higher than the third round.
All Leaf demonstrated was the absolute necessity of background, reference and character checks. Stories came out after he failed about how big of a jerk he was, and basically, how he just never seemed to love the game of football.
The draft has turned into the circus it has in terms of information and discussion because of his epic failure. All the negative information on Leaf that was essentially concealed then would be easily available now. He’d be like Ryan Mallett.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
yea good point
but ppl still get it wrong sometimes :P
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 14, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
The Raiders in particular. Faced the same exact problems with Russell, but didn’t want to hear about them.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
internet era
So those aol scouting reports don’t count? lol
Instead of Konz
I would vote to take his teammate, Kevin Zeitler. I’ve watched a couple of highlights of their offense and the dude can really play. Plus, he shows good ability to pull and trap, which means we might be able to stick him at LG next year.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 14, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
To me he was kind of like Cam Heyward. Yeah, decent player, but if he’s ever gonna be dominant, it won’t be for a little bit down the road.
Sort of a jack of all trades, master of none kind of guy. I dunno, what do you think? You follow this quite a bit.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Cam Heyward type player?
That isn’t too shabby,
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 14, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree about Heyward
When Cam was at his best, that dude could flat out wreck an offensive line. The only think that held him back from being a top 10 pick was his consistency and his lack of pass rush skills. Other than that, he was an exceptional prospect, which is why Tomlin and Lebeau were so giddy last year when he was still around at 31. Just watch his games against Arkansas and Iowa from last season.
Zeitler is probably not going to be dominant, but his skills are good enough for him to stick at LG.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 14, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough. Is he the guy at 24?
I didn’t meant to imply Heyward can’t dominate, but that lack of consistency was one of the marks against him. That’s why I’m suggesting if he’s gonna put it all together, it’ll be at a point down the line a bit in his career. Needs some time to marinate, so to speak.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
If his combine is good, then I'd say yes
If no, then he’ll probably drop and there might be a better prospect at 24.
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 15, 2012 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
i worrry
that ben won’t be able to adjust to having time to throw. he’s been running for his life so long, it may just destroy his mind. i am reminded of a line from a favorite movie-
“animal mother is a fine human being on the battlefield. He just needs someone to throw grenades at him for the rest of his life.”
we should trade down not up...
If we’ll be able to trade our first rounder for 2 second rounders I’ll be very happy! Than we could take 2 quality Olinemen and 1 stud NT in the 2nd round! I think, it’ll never happen though. But I have a right to dream :)
P.S. whoever said that there are guards in this draft with the similar skill set as DeCastro are living in a dreamland :) He is by far head and shoulders above all the draft prospects. He is so good that he’s taking his pal (Tackle) with him to be taken in the first round :)
Trade up...........
Good article and sounds interesting, but personally I think the Steelers have too many spots they want to fill for it to be practical to give up that many draft picks. Better by far to move down in the draft………. with extra picks and develop the players they need from the lower draft spots……….
DeCastro
This is one of those dream things but with the number of older players who are retiring or on the verge of retiring I don’t think we can afford the luxury of trading up unless a top 15 player we can use drops to 20 or lower. We are just a bit too thin in too many places.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 14, 2012 1:16 PM EST reply actions
There is a possible trend I have noticed the last couple of years with our 1st round picks
They have been highly ranked prospects that fell to our spot. 2 years ago Heyward was considered a possible top 10 pick after his strong junior season. After struggling in his senior season his stock fell to where he came available to us.
Pouncey was BPA and his value matched where we picked.
Ziggy was considered a top 20 pick with most mocks having going to Atlanta at 24. Instead he fell to us at 32.
In 2008 Mendenhall was considered the 2nd best Rb behind Darren McFadden, with most mocks putting him in the teens. instead he fell to us at 23.
This is the reason that I find Jeffery so likely. Last year he regared as a top ten pick. Now he’s anywhere from late 1st round to late 2nd. As for trading up Decastro seems like the only one worth trading up for. None of the other 1st round talents ranked around the 20’s seem worth moving up for.
I'm getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
"It would be tough for me to care less about their opinion, to be honest with you." Mike Tomlin
Someone mentioned this yesterday, I have no idea if it’s true or not, but they said he weighed over 240 and was running in the 4.8s.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 14, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
made up rumor on twitter
nothing to it
by Greig Clawson on Feb 14, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
I heard it was over 250.
I guess we’ll see at the Combine.
I really hope we don’t draft Jeffery
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 14, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Possibility...
If we want DeCastro that bad then
trade ourt first (#24) second (#56) and third (#88) to the Arizona Cardinals for their 1st (#13) and fourth (#109).
Then draft
1st #13- David DeCastro OG Stanford
4th #109- James-Michael Johnson, ILB Nevada
4th #120- Josh Chapman, NT Alabama
5th #152- Brandon Taylor FS LSU
6th# 184- Andrew Datko, OT FSU
7th #206- Carson Wiggs K Purdue
It be taking a chance on Chapman and Datko but if they get fully healthy you get a solid,.NT who can be in the rotation and play snd an OT who can be a starter if he regains full strength in his arm and shoulder is healthy. Add to that a prospect that can play both safety positions and nickle corner if needed and a kicker with a string leg.
This wouldn’t be the draft that made me jump out of my seat but getting DeCastro and a couple of guys who can start it would be great.
Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert
Chapman won't be there in the 4th
Houston is allllllll over him by the 2nd.
OG is our biggest need?
Our starting nose tackle will almost surely miss the beginning of next season because of an ACL tear in January, and his backup just retired. Our starting running back will also miss the beginning of the year, if not more. Farrior and Foote are old and losing a step, our starting left tackle missed half of last season for being too fat, our starting right tackle keeps having season-ending injuries, and we have so little faith in our backup QBs that we send Ben onto the field when he can barely walk.
And we’d want to trade up for a guard? The single least-important position on offense (or defense, for that matter)?
Something to say? Choose one of these options to log in.
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
"Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history."
Art Rooney Jr.
"Level-headed thinking." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Related FanPosts on Behind the Steel Curtain
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
