Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger Already Working Out, Confirms Right Shoulder Injury in 2011

Not a single possibility of a negative consequence by calling.

Thats just where I disagree. He could call ben and piss him off. Just like talking on here its hard to gauge tone and context because you can’t see someone’s facial expression or even hear their voice. 80% of communication is non-verbal or something like that. There could always be a mis-understanding. At least in my opinion there could be.

Whether you think he doesn’t need to humble himself, or whether I think he does need to means nothing.

Exactly. Also for the record, I don’t know what he needs to do. There are things I want him to do but what he needs to do is dependent on what tomlin and the rooneys ask from him and what works best with ben to product the optimal results.

Him not reaching out to our big money quarterback can easily be construed as a continuation of his normal pattern of "I’m big bad mothafuckin Haley, I make the rules around here".

It could be. Its just not a definitive sign to me, that’s all.

Someone says Tomlin needs to go…what out of that makes you think what you think about why they feel he needs to go? That’s not what they showed you.

Uh, yea. There are motives behind why people say things. If someone just wants tomlin to go and doesn’t do anything to support their argument then there is a reason there its just not present. All that is left is to ask questions, look at the context and circumstances, and find the most logical reason why someone would want a super bowl winning coach in his 5th year gone. There has to be a good reason that we can look at objectively by looking around the league to see what other reasons coaches get fired and see if we can find something in the way tomlin conducts business that would lead to a fireable offense. If there are none then its most likely personal bias. Its just deduction. Like with BA, people forget how he would talk to media and say how this is his offense and its not changing. We all thought he was talking to us, but the Rooney’s were listening also. So when they asked for a change and it kinda happened one year and didn’t the next they pulled the trigger. I think the Steelers Depot had an article about it expanding into great details. But there were objective signs of ineffectiveness and insubordination that were fireable offenses. And I’m not trying to argue about that here, just showing the thought process. I don’t just jump to conclusions, there are a lot of things to consider and when things become illogical that is usually when personal biases are present. As with our conversation, if Haley did call, wouldn’t you feel better? I mean, you wouldn’t have the concern anymore because he reached out. All I am saying is its not a need until it is determined a need by ben, tomlin, haley, or the rooneys. Will we know if ben is negatively effected by him not calling, probably not. Like you said he received so much crap for supporting his friend Arians when he got fired I doubt he would be willing to be honest about how he feels about Haley not calling. So we currently don’t know. The fact that you used the word need there did show me something. It showed that you thought it was essential, if it didn’t happen something bad would happen. Thats the definition of need. We can’t clearly prove that right now so thats why we don’t know if its a need or not, right now its a want. I just personally feel that how Ben is treated during the course of the next 10 months will matter a lot more than Haley reaching out. You think Haley reaching out is at least a concern thats fine, I just don’t agree. It could be there is just no evidence that it will lead to an issue right now. Thats why I still believe that its not a need, its what you want. Am I wrong for that? If I am then, I dunno what to say, I mean we’re having a discussion and I’m asking you to prove your concern with facts that I thought were relevant. If you can’t prove it or can’t at least show that those facts that I asked for are not relevant, why should I change what I believe? To me, what is important, is what Tomlin, Rooney, and Ben think. If they don’t tell Haley he has to call then he doesn’t need to call right now. Do we know for sure if they have asked, no. I hope not because if they did that would mean that Haley is being uncooperative or insubordinate, neither of which are good.

But there are definitely times when it appears you are arguing for the

I don’t really mean to, there is always a reason for me to argue. There are plenty of times where its not worth it, it almost got to that point here but Frank I wanted to get to a point where we were clear on things because I respect you as a member here. If you were some troll I wouldn’t have wasted the time to explain things. I actually value what you think so take it as a compliment. :)

The problem I have is the condescending way you address people some times, and the way you try to pretend you have a deep psychological profile of people.

I don’t mean to sound that way. Sometimes its hard not to in a discussion. Like I said 80% of communication is non-verbal and we don’t even have the verbal part here on the internet. You can’t tell my tone, facial expressions, or body language. I certainly don’t take a comment and label a person. I don’t even pretend I really know people, just because I try to find motive in a comment doesn’t mean I consider that motive to be the driving point in who that person is. It just means within this context, this conversation, this person shows some motive, nothing more. Hopefully no harm is done. I’ve seen you mention it before in your comments, about knowing people, and didn’t think it was a big deal but hopefully I’d clear it up. I don’t pretend to know everything about people, especially on the internet. People are way to complex, it takes years to truly learn someone, trust me I know, I’m married. :)