Questions About Steelers Salary Cap Situation Need Answers
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 4:37 PM EST
in Steelers Contracts and Salary Cap
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Ya ever have that co-worker who comes in with a look that says "I have a gun and a shovel, and I doubt anyone will miss you, so don't toy with me today"?
A co-worker who, perhaps, is running a fever, and is royally ticked off at his dog's escape from his collar and subsequent trek through four inches of wet, heavy snow this morning.
It may not be rational. Or logical. It may be pure insanity, but that's me today. So I'm going to rant a little. The thought and realistic possibility of the Bengals nabbing WR Mike Wallace away from us with a low-end first round pick just does that to me, and I want answers. Sometimes, Twitter just doesn't give you enough room to ask the questions needing to be asked. Here's what I want to know.
How did the Steelers get locked into Salary Cap Jail? This is a team renowned for its front office savvy. A dream team of numbers nerds, Kevin Colbert and Omar Khan, never steered this franchise into such perilous waters.
Are we just blindly loyal to this franchise, so much that we aren't questioning its leadership right now? I get the fact Colbert walks past six trophies on his way into work, but now, he's staring at a team salary largely increased last season. Were they gambling heavily on a 2012 salary cap that would have been about a 15 percent increase from this season?
Extensions were given to Ike Taylor (a new deal, actually), LaMarr Woodley, Troy Polamalu and Lawrence Timmons last season. Taylor, Woodley and Timmons were asked to restructure those deals less than a year after they were signed. That's not standard business practice on the South Side. Did they not see the problems those decisions may bring this year?
Adding to it is RB Rashard Mendenhall's base salary increase from 2011 to 2012. His cap number went from around $800k to $1.2 million, and all that factors into the cap. Were they planning on him rushing for fewer than 900 yards?
Since they were in the giving mood last year, why not talk to QB Ben Roethlisberger then about an extension? Clearly, the team has its quarterback. That quarterback's legacy is winning. He obviously can win here, but since you know (before training camp 2011) his best friend, Bruce Arians, will be the offensive coordinator that season, why not ask him to take a few bucks less in 2012, and in exchange, you'll tack on another two years, and spread money out from what's left on his deal then? New money for him, cap savings for the team, and none of this "burn the midnight oil to free up money to sign WR Mike Wallace to a long-term deal" junk.
The upside to that (in a manner of speaking) is they have the exact same scenario with WR Antonio Brown next year. They're guaranteeing a lot of money to veterans now, it's reasonable to think some of that is going to have to hit the books next year.
Granted, they may not have anticipated the highest level RFA tender (a first-and-third round compensation) going away in the new CBA, but they had it in enough time where they could have anticipated the scenario we're discussing now.
Giving a restricted free agent a franchise tag seems out of the spirit of its purpose, but at the very least they could have seen Wallace having another big season, and really becoming a possible target in the RFA market. Knowing they'd have to franchise him to protect him, why didn't they talk last year about an extension for Wallace? Maybe they could still have gotten him on the cheap.
The linebacker tag is likely to be $1.5 million less in 2012 than the wide receiver tag.
So someone throw a glass of cold water on my face, or toss me a bottle of whiskey a la Delta House's John "Bluto" Blutarsky, and tell me why we needn't worry about any of this.
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hmmmm. Why shouldn't we worry about this?
Maybe because we face this issue every single year and somehow, someway, Kevin Colbert and Omar Khan find a way to get us out of it and still field a championship caliber team. That is why you should not worry. Colbert and Khan know that in 2014 the cap could go up anywhere from $30 to $60 million and will keep restructuring and back-loading contracts until we get there. Don’t worry about these guys. They know what they are doing.
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by seton hall and steelers on Feb 21, 2012 5:02 PM EST reply actions
Time....
Colbert and Khan know that in 2014 the cap could go up anywhere from $30 to $60 million and will keep restructuring and back-loading contracts until we get there.
Yes, the cap is scheduled to go up at some point, but if that increase isn’t until 2014 then what about next year….
by Hombre de Acero on Feb 21, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
When, since the late 90s, when the salary cap really started to take its toll, did the Steelers have an offseason with more salary dilemmas than this one?
I love the thought of 2014, not saying these issues could very well go away by then, and I really hope this is all just an anomaly, but…ya gotta wonder about it, too. Roethlisberger is 33 in 2014. All of those guys have that much more damage by that point. Back-loading contracts is a dangerous proposition in a game with as much injury as football.
Think of it this way; they just guaranteed $2.85 million to a right tackle who has not played a full game since 2009. That’s a risk, plain and simple. I’m a huge Willie Colon fan, but I cannot believe, if the Steelers felt really confident about the current salary cap situation, they would offer to guarantee that much money down the line to a guy with extensive injuries in each of the last two years.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I agree Neal, this back loading scares me.
by Hombre de Acero on Feb 21, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
what's wrong with back loaded contracts?
NFL contracts aren’t guaranteed. When a player stops playing up to his contract, he gets cut. Problem solved.
by Greig Clawson on Feb 21, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
In this case, they’re back-loading guaranteed money. Willie Colon will get the $2.85 million he took out of his contract this year. That money was not all guaranteed this year, though. Now, it is, just broken out in different seasons.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
they aren't back loading anything
except for the cap hit. That money is spread over future years, for accounting purposes, but Willie will gets paid that money this year. Instead of paying Willie in salary, they are paying him the same amount of money as a bonus.
by Greig Clawson on Feb 21, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
That money becomes guaranteed, though, doesn’t it? If it was already guaranteed, it wouldn’t make a bit of difference. If it’s not guaranteed, why don’t they do that with everyone, then?
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
By converting salary to a bonus
the Steelers guaranteed Willie’s salary for this season.
Why don’t they do it with everyone? Risk. If Willie gets hurt, or the team wants to cut him, prior to the roster being finalized, they are still on the hook for the guaranteed portion of this years salary.
by Greig Clawson on Feb 21, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, so, if Colon gets all of that money guaranteed this year, why is that money not counted against the cap? Besides, they said the money is prorated over the remaining four years of his deal.
Can you teach a course on this, please?
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Willie restructured his deal, which means that the team converted a large potion of his salary, into bonus money. When a player receives a signing bonus, the money is paid to the player in the year the deal is signed. The only thing that is prorated, is the accounting of the bonus on the teams books.
by Greig Clawson on Feb 21, 2012 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
what you're missing
is that if Colon goes down (what are the odds??) for good and he’s to be cut next offseason the entirety of the remainder of his pro-rated bonus money hits the cap all in one year.
Also if they have his contract structured with escalating salaries as most are then in his final year he’ll have a huge cap number.
by Steely McSmash on Feb 21, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
If he goes down, we’ll just do the same thing you’d do to a horse that goes down.
I don't get it, I've bought my wife a vacuum cleaner for Valentine's day four years in a row, and she still doesn't understand.......
just how much I love her
calll the glue factory?
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 22, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Not really a concern
If Willie didn’t restructure, the salary that was converted to bonus, would have counted against this years cap. Once a player makes the final roster, he is guaranteed to collect his salary for the year.
They can avoid Willie’s big cap number in his final year, by releasing him with a year left on his deal. They will take the cap hit for any remaining prorated bonus dollars, but they can get out from under his final years salary. This is most likely what is going to happen to Casey Hampton this year
by Greig Clawson on Feb 21, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Great info, Greig!!!
Never really understood how it all worked and you explained it so that even a dummy like me can understand…thanks!!
by Bradhaw's index finger on Feb 22, 2012 8:09 AM EST up reply actions
...and the June 1 cutoff date helps further
If the Steelers release Colon, for example, after June 1st, then they have no obligations regarding his salary, but are on the hook for all guaranteed money. If they release him before June 1st, then all that guaranteed $ is a 2012 cap hit, but releasing him after June 1st splits that cap hit over the 2012 and 2013 seasons.
That option doesn’t exist with Hampton, whose contract ends after 2012. But if they still intend on releasing Hampton, they may be able to renegotiate the contract so that he gets more as bonus $ (his benefit from renegotiation) and the team then releases him after June 1st to ease cap room (their benefit to renegotiation).
missing the point
Colon is entering year 2 of a 5 year deal
The team has taken 3.8Mil out of this year and spread it over 4 years along with his original pro-rated bonus money.
2.85Mil of that is on years 3-5. If he gets cut this season due to a terrible injury, all that 2.85Mil hits the cap in 2013 as dead money. Not the end of the world considering the amount but that’s the downside.
by Steely McSmash on Feb 22, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
It's a tool for FO's to use
If they plan to keep a player for that year, then converting part of that year’s salary to bonus just spreads the cap hit through the rest of the contract. The Steelers weren’t going to cut him this year anyway, because all of his guaranteed money left for the remaining time (4 years I think it was) would have hit this year’s cap.
I don’t remember exactly what Colon’s numbers were, but say he was given a 5 year deal worth a total of $20M with $10M guaranteed. Then, his cap hit the first year would be his base salary + $2M (or 1/5 of his guaranteed money). Most contracts are back loaded anyway, expecting that the cap will go up. So, a five year deal usually has the first few years with a low base salary. For example, years 1-4 could have base salaries of $800K, $1M, $1.2M, $1.4M, with the base salary in year 5 being $5.6M. In this case, the cap hit in year two, would be $3M.
When teams structure it like this, they usually are planning to cut the player in the last year, or convert the final year into a new signing bonus for the subsequent contract.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 21, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
you're right
The front office sucks and the Steelers are screwed. Now how about you move along and talk to the Bengals fan in accounting. They have doughnuts.
One thing I’ve always loved about Steelers fans…we aren’t ever allowed to question the direction of the team, and if we do, we should root for the Bengals. I wrote this in a tongue-in-cheek joke at that kind of thinking. I’m gonna get ripped for writing it anyway, but I feel they’re legitimate questions to ask, but we don’t collectively feel comfortable asking questions surrounding the decisions of the front office.
We may not typically have the amount of questions we have this offseason, but even that capital doesn’t put them above speculation.
Blind loyalty doesn’t work for me. Being loyal but questioning things seems in line with anyone who watches a game, buys team merchandise or discusses that team at length anywhere in his/her life.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Agree completely
Just because we analyze details and question decisions, we are automatically ungrateful steeler fans. I am a fan. I questions things. I love being a steeler fan and realize how lucky I am Should be allowed to question and worry about our team
Besides. What else is there to do in offseason?
Ps. I am a little worried too
I was just playing along with your crazy co-worker premise. If you show up at my desk with a gun, a shovel, and a crazed look, I’ll agree with whatever and send you to the next guy.
To your point, though, the front office may indeed have let things get away from them a bit. With this veteran group and Ben in his prime, they may feel the urgency to sign who they want and push problems along to the next year.
"but we don’t collectively feel comfortable asking questions surrounding the decisions of the front office"
Neal, I appreciate your concern. Some folks in Steeler Nation really don’t like to question the FO’s decisions or timing for those decisions. We point to the best record over the last 40 years of any franchise in the league, and six shiny silver trophies.
There’s a lot of weight carried behind that way of thinking, as it’s hard to argue.
But the only constant has been the ownership. The other front office components have changed over the years. Thankfully, they have, for the most part, made very good decisions and practiced wise financial strategies that haven’t sunk the franchise for a decade at a time. We have been fortunate.
But this current team of FO professionals has been, thus far, one of the shrewdest, cunning, wise, and creative we have had. There is one thing, though, that they have had to deal with that the FO of 1982-2002 have not had to deal with to the same degree:
Three Super Bowl appearances in six years.
There’s a very big reason that most Super Bowl teams (aside from the Patriots and Steelers) through history have struggled to make it back to the Suoer Bowl, much less just the playoffs, the next year. Other teams poaching players and coaches with Super Bowl experience is a decades old game. We did it ourselves when we nabbed Chas Noll. It works. (Sometimes cough Larry Brown cough* it doesn’t!).
Also, we have several things happening at the same time that we haven’t had to deal with to this degree since the teams of the ’70’s:
[] A bonifide “franchise QB”
[] A once-in-a-generation defensive player
[] Several “high echelon” players on both offense and defense that legitimately make opponents salivate at the thought of obtaining their services.
We’re where we are financially by way of becoming exactly what we as fans want our team so desperately to be. We are Super Bowl champions multiple times in a short period of time. We have attractive, marketable pieces. We have an ownership team that, for the most part, owns and let’s managers manage and coaches coach.
Until I see an absolutely horrible decision from this financial team of number crunchers and salary managers, I’ll continue to drink the Kool-Aid. Unlike Jonestown, the Steelers Kool Aid has never even given me so much as an upset stomach.
Thanks for the good article, once again!
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
by Fifty-Eight on Feb 23, 2012 5:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oooooh, donuts....is there anything they can't do?
I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson
I was thinking of you today, Homer…a guy on Deadspin wrote a piece about the making of the immortal classic “Homer At The Bat,” where Burns brings in pros to play on the company’s softball team.
I literally had tears rolling down my cheeks thinking about Don Mattingly showing up with both sides of his head shaved off cuz Burns wanted him to trim his sideburns.
And I’m laughing again…my wife assumes I’m insane.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
great Simpsons article
I thought it was interesting that the Mattingly sideburns thing had nothing to do with Steinbrenner’s ridiculous “no facial hair” rule but was actually based on a writers grandfather who always yelled at his employees to cut their hair. Also the part about Canseco’s wife not wanting his character to cheat was priceless.
by Dr. Spaceman on Feb 22, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Window and Speculation
Neal, good post, good questions.
I think a lot of things went to bring this about.
1. They probably did not anticipate that the top tender for a RFA would drop from a a 1st and a 3rd to a mere first. Of course, they did have this information when they moved on Woodley and Timmons.
2. From everything I gather, the Steelers brain trust was projecting that the 2011 and 2012 (and 2013?) salary caps would be higher. If I am not mistaken, the actual number for cash doled out went down from 2010 to 2011(although I think the number is higher when benefits are taken into account.)
3. You’re right. Renegotiating deal one year into a contact is not Steelers-like. This kind of non-sense got the Cowboys and 49er’s into trouble in the 1990’s.
As to why they’re doing it now, I think one reason is that they still see the Super Bowl window as being viable and open.
And to that end, it is easier to re-ink contracts before going to Casey Hampton and asking delicate questions about renegotiating for less money. For all of Kevin Colbert’s talk about making hard decisions, it thus far seems like they’re picking low-hanging fruit and kicking the pain down the road.
But perhaps I am wrong, and perhaps future growth in the size of the cap will render this observation moot.
by Hombre de Acero on Feb 21, 2012 5:02 PM EST reply actions
1. True, and I think that piece hurts them quite a bit. Not much they could do there, probably just was something the players demanded. It was clearly two picks so a team would be absolutely insane to sign any RFAs, as evidenced by the fact it never happened (I don’t think…did it?)
2. That had to be the case. If it is, then why were they so far off? No one else is in this kind of a situation. $20 million over is a death sentence to many organizations. Perhaps we won’t have to deal with that, but it’s scary, in a way.
3. Even when the Super Bowl window is viable and open (which it really has been since 2001, even with a down year here and there), they never mortgaged their future the way they are right now.
You’re right though, maybe the cap will jump as early as next year, and everything will be fine.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent Point....
2. That had to be the case. If it is, then why were they so far off? No one else is in this kind of a situation. $20 million over is a death sentence to many organizations. Perhaps we won’t have to deal with that, but it’s scary, in a way.
True. Very, very true.
by Hombre de Acero on Feb 21, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Franchise tag question neal
The bolts want to keep V Jax , but dont really want use the franchise tag on him because the price would be 14 million. The Steelers would have to pay 9.6 million to use the tag on wallace. I thought that when figuring out the price for the player tagged, you took the top 5 players at the position and then pay the tagged player the average salary of those 5 players. What am I missing?
keiselsbeard
#2
2. From everything I gather, the Steelers brain trust was projecting that the 2011 and 2012 (and 2013?) salary caps would be higher. If I am not mistaken, the actual number for cash doled out went down from 2010 to 2011(although I think the number is higher when benefits are taken into account.)
120,375,000 to 123,500,000
by Steely McSmash on Feb 21, 2012 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
Great points Hombre
All stuff I wanted to mention in my response, but no one would have wanted to read something that long, and my attention spam in writing something that long would have….
OOOH! A donut!
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
by Fifty-Eight on Feb 23, 2012 5:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
A couple things
Ya ever have that co-worker who comes in with a look that says “I have a gun and a shovel, and I doubt anyone will miss you, so don’t toy with me today”?
I can honestly say no to this, and if you frequently hear this, you should probably change offices.
Jokes aside, I think you raise some fair concerns. Not only is Brown walking into this situation next year, but Emmanuel Sanders is too. Slightly concerning. But I think going into next year we’re going to see some money come off the cap. I really don’t see Farrior here after this year. Casey Hampton’s deal will probably be off the books this season (cut and resign) and I wouldn’t be shocked if Kemo was too
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
if you frequently hear this, you should probably change offices.
There was this one guy once…oh man, he was a piece of work. You know someone’s really messed up when the office gossip have him as the father of anywhere from 2 to 5 illegitimate children, and you can believe every one of those numbers.
The day we found out he broke into his girlfriend’s email and discovered she was cheating on him, yeah…that was the basis of that comment.
I’m a big fan of Sanders, and I think he’ll stick around in RFA, but if they have to invest in Wallace this offseason, than either tag or invest in Brown next year, it’s tough to sink another $2.7 (it’ll be higher next year) in a receiver. I think they give him the original round (3rd) tender and hold their breath.
Another reason why I see the Steelers looking at wide receivers in this draft.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
One more thing about that guy
He randomly changed his last name. Just out of morbid curiosity, and to see if I could get him to calm the intensity he carried himself with down a little, I jokingly asked him if he got married or something.
Stares back at me, “No, I hate my parents.”
I was power-walking away from him about five seconds later.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Haha damn
He sounds like a trip. Although sometimes people like that make the office that much more entertaining as well.
I’m not sure I see a problem with breaking into someone’s email. I do it all the time .
I love Emmanuel Sanders, and I think he can be highly successful in our offense given the opportunity. If he’s healthy, he’ll get it this year, and I’m excited to see what happens. If they loose Wallace, you almost have to go WR early in the draft. But I think that they could pick up another first, grab someone like Cordy Glenn and Dontari Poe (depending on who gives up their late first rounder), and fill two major needs. I really believe one of Michael Floyd, Alshon Jeffery and Kendall Wright will fall into the second round, and it’ll be a good opportunity to move up and grab them. I think it might almost help them if he signs elsewhere, but I kind of detailed that in the side bar. Call me crazy.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
How does a guy Poe’s size fall to 24, unless he’s a convicted (or even a rumored) murderer or arsonist? Everything written about suggests the only real flaw he has right now is his technique needs work, but he’s a great kid.
He’s 6-foot-5, 340 pounds, and very quick. Teams in the top 15 are gonna want a guy like that. He’s gonna blow up at the Combine, and analysts will have him shooting up 10 spots higher, just watch.
Floyd, Jeffery and Wright all have to perform well and say the right things at the Combine. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Wright climb and Jeffery fall.
I think they’re less of an offense without him in it, but I think they can find comparable players and move the offense in a different direction. One guy can’t be your whole team anyway.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Everything I've seen says Poe isn't top first round
and I’ve seen a lot of places have him outside the first round. Assuming he kills it at the Combine, he may shoot up some boards. But I’ve seen a lot of people rank him 5th among DTs behind Brockers, Cox, Still and Thompson. I wouldn’t be surprised, based on what we know right now, if Poe were around at 24. Like I said, if he kills at the Combine, he may move up, you’re right.
Alshon is the guy I see falling too, I agree. I think Kendall Wright will have a great pro day (helps when RG3 is throwing the ball) and he’ll probably move up. Alshon is going to run 4.5 range and that combined with weight questions will cause him to fall. He would be an ideal “Big Ben” target though. Makes plays down field, huge target, total team player. I’d be a fan (Bias alert: South Carolina student)
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
Did you see him at all around campus during the season? Did he look like much just walking around (The Greg Oden Rule, you can tell a lot about a guy simply by watching him walk. If he looks disjointed and generally old, like Oden, it may not be a good idea to draft him very high. Poor bastard’s having his fourth season ending injury in his fourth season)?
As far as what people are saying about Poe, I’d say it’s going to mostly be because he’s raw. Brockers can get away with being raw, considering he showed dominance in the SEC. Memphis is a bad program. What I know is I’d be perfectly fine with the Steelers taking him at 24, yes, over Cordy Glenn.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
his fifth actually, and as a blazer fan, I can’t believe I have to go through this again watching Durant tear the league a new one, just like when we passed on Michael Jordan for sam frickin bowie….as for Poe being rated 5th, I believe that’s for DTs overall. Amongst nose tackle prospects, he’s been ranked #1 as far as what I’ve seen
I knew it would be like that. I saw him during his year at OSU..he just moved like an old man then, I had a feeling he wouldn’t last long. Sad really, he seems like a good kid.
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
I'd be thrilled to have him at 24
He’s a big zero technique that is talented and still has a ton of room to grow. I’d be happy to get him there. I might not rather have him over Glenn based on need at both positions (although the FO fascination with versatile lineman continues to confuse me). I’ve never seen him on campus, I’m at South Carolina, which is why I’d love to have Alshon Jeffery. I think the reason he could fall to us is because of how raw he really is. Having Casey Hampton available to mentor him and teach him things would be a huge help. If I’m drafting higher and I’m taking DT, I probably want a guy who isn’t as raw.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
Yeah, and that’s definitely a valid argument. Lots of teams won’t take projects as unrefined as him in the first round simply because they need a guy who can get on the field somehow right away.
We’ll see what happens at and after the Combine.
I’m with you on the versatility factor being weighed so heavily, but I think it’s a strategic approach to fielding a oft-injured unit inexpensively (if the O-line is only as strong as its weakest link, it’s most cost-efficient to approach it as making the weakest stronger, and in the event of injury, moving a talented guy over a spot and having someone else fill in can save them roster spots for more skill position and special teams guys).
It also suggests they’re approaching it with low expectations, which, frankly, makes sense, considering you just aren’t going to get a top-flight tackle drafting in the mid-to-high 20s every year. Getting those swing linemen is a good value move because they often didn’t impress enough at one position, but showed enough potential at all of them, they can get them on the cheap and work them all over.
Again, I think it’s largely due to a cost strategy. To the Steelers’ credit, they’ve had lots of team success over the past seven years and haven’t had an overly expensive offensive line in that time.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 22, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
size?
I think you’ve talked yourself into over-valuing this guy.
He doesn’t have short area quickness to cover guard to guard, he’s a little too tall to have immovable object status, He has trouble shedding blocks, his stats (I know he’s a DT so you don’t expect a ton of stats) are mediocre at best and he’s playing for memphis.
D-linemen that are drafted early have an element of pass rush, 3 down players. They either played well against top tier competition or they dominated lesser competition. I honestly don’t see any of that from Poe.
by Steely McSmash on Feb 21, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t say he was a starter from Day 1, he’s got a boatload of potential, and had you read on, you’d see I didn’t only credit his size for what I feel is his pre-24 draft pick.
I did say his technique is flawed, which is why he didn’t perform as well as he probably could have. I think the right team (Pittsburgh) with a reputation for developing defensive line talent (mid-and-late round picks to eventual Pro Bowls Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel, along with 6-time Pro Bowl NT Casey Hampton).
We’ll agree to disagree, but Casey Hampton wasn’t/isn’t seen as a three-down linemen. Fact is, you just don’t find guys that size and strength who are that agile and athletic. I don’t see how they couldn’t teach him to play whatever they wanted him to.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
this
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Feb 22, 2012 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
Only if he changes his name to Unosiete
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
lol
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Feb 22, 2012 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
FINALLY....
…legitimate questions that strip the “gold colored glasses” from our eyes and forces us to look at the FO objectively.
I get the fact Colbert walks past six trophies on his way into work, but now, he’s staring at a team salary largely increased last season. Were they gambling heavily on a 2012 salary cap that would have been about a 15 percent increase from this season?Change the company name to Lehman Brothers, or Colbert’s to Madoff and you begin to see the magnitude of their gamble. They are treating the salary cap like mortgage brokers did home values, betting the company that the value (cap) will go up to cover their investment.
What this says to me is either: (1) the Rooneys have lost control, or more likely, (2) the organization as a whole has decided to “double down” now for that #7 Lombardi, and take come what may later. Maybe Willie Taylor is right with his repeated laments that things coming out of the front office are “different”
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
this
"double down" now for that #7 Lombardi,
by Steely McSmash on Feb 21, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
I understand your analogy, but comparing the steelers strategy for solving cap issues (re: winning #7 ) and Lehman/Madoff is outrageous, completely inaccurate, and inappropriate. If the steelers fail, then private investors suck it up and eat the loss. With Lehman and Madoff, many lost pensions, homes, and are in an economic hole for the foreseeable future, while those that gambled continue to reap massive profits and were bailed out by those that are suffering.
Have you ever heard of Hyperbole?
…you don’t need to save the world in every post.
And frankly, the analogy may not be that far off. It was greed, from the corporate board rooms to the individual living rooms that caused the collapse of the housing market; the corporations selling CMBS at ever rising prices to meet Wall Street quarterly expectations, and the individual home owners throwing caution and prudence to the wind and buying the size and style of homes they had no business buying, because the price was so far out of their reach, and the mortgage brokers, who needed to keep feeding the CMBS gravy train so they kept qualifying greedy homeowners for mortgages they couldn’t afford.
If indeed the Steelers are signing all these large $$ contracts with the intent on then restructuring them a year later, acting under the guise of trying to secure a Lombardi this year or next, then it is greed they have succumbed to, the greed of winning at all costs, the long term ability to compete sold short to maximize the chance to win now; they have lost sight of the long term, they have drfted from the path of building and maintaining a champion caliber team through proven and prudent business practices and instead have themselves become the “young money” wall street brokers and financial corporations looking for the quick score you so despise.
Of course, Kahn and Colbert could also have figured out a brilliant strategy not obvious to insensitive clods like myself, and all this is just overblown sophistry.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Who the f*ck said anything about saving the world? You’re looking for sh*t where there isn’t any. I also don’t need a lesson from you about how the economy was driven into the toilet. I’m very well aware of what caused it. Further, don’t tell me what I despise – you have no idea because we haven’t discussed it. You made another assumption based on who you think I am and what I might think based on previous comments. Nothing about buying short or selling long.
Hyperbole is an exaggeration to create emphasis or effect, however you compared two concepts that had nothing to do with one another other than “gamble.” Not quite the same thing as hyperbole. If you would have said the steelers sacrificed the next 20 years for one super bowl win, that would be hyperbole. I stand by the fact that your analogy was inaccurate and inapplicable to your observation.
I did say however, that I agreed with your original premise, just not how you supported it.
Might want to pause before dropping the f* bomb on me...
hy·per·bo·le /haɪˈpɜrbəli/ Show Spelled[hahy-pur-buh-lee] Show IPA
noun Rhetoric .
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as "to wait an eternity."
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Here is my question
what do you suggest they do? Are you saying not re-sign your top players?
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 22, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
I can't answer that...
…until we see how this thing unfolds over the next few weeks.
If they sign most of the players on the current squad, in hopes of getting #7, then I would argue they mortgaged the future. If they cut a number of long-term vets, and “roll the dice” with the younger guys, then the moves make some sense. Either way however, they are banking a lot on having a much higher cap the next couple of years; cutting some of the current “stars” will result in a lot of restructured dead money against those future caps.
No easy solutions; that’s why they’re doing it, and not me!
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
We will see
I think it will be a mixture of both. Once free agency hits we’ll get a good idea of what the strategy is. I don’t really have an issue with them ‘mortgaging the future’ to win now. It just means that if the cap does not go up in 2014 there is going to be a huge slash in salary for the Steelers, we’ll probably be bad for a couple of years but I don’t mind that risk.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 22, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
I do, because doing that would besmirch...
…the reputation this team has built since 1969, of having sound principles and holding to them. Turning our back on such principles would make us no better than the Brownies, Cryboys, Redskins or the other perennial “buyers of trophies”.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
those were the good old days
We would draft em and then keep them. The Steelers had a way of moving the old out and bring the young up and very seldom brought in any outsiders. It cant be done that way anymore, because as soon as the Steelers get a player developed then some vultures come in and steal them. Its not so bad when they do though because usually shortly after their departure , their new team finds out that the players were better when they were playing in Pittsburgh
keiselsbeard
+7, but those days aren't over...
…we just have to be smart about the money.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
I disagree
what make the brownies and such who they are is the fact that they don’t win.
‘Buyers of trophies’ don’t apply to us. We still are sticking to the same principles, build through the draft and be very selective in FA, and sign your own guys that are worth it.
You have accept that this is a very unique situation that we are dealing with here. The Steelers had two choices, sign their guys or risk losing Harrison, Woodley, Timmons, Troy, and Ike. Are you seriously accusing the Steelers of ‘straying from their sound principles’ because they signed these guys? Also, its not like they knew the cap would dip it was anyone’s guessing game. If the cap didn’t dip then teams like tampa and carolina look crazy for cutting all their guys and stripping their roster. Would you really want to go through the 2-14 season that the panters had in 2010? What about the 10 game losing streak that the Bucs had this past season. that is the kind of thing that happens when you slash your salary without knowing exactly the amount you are slashing to, you get bad performance. It builds bad morale because players know you aren’t trying to win. To me that is irresponsible and straying from their principles. The Steelers have always done their best to put a winning team on the field, at least in the last 40 years.
I don’t think you know what their sound principles are. They have always offered reasonable and fair contracts to their players, with some exceptions cough Rod Woodson cough. Its up to the player to chase the money or not. If a guy is old and the Steelers don’t feel like they offer much more then they will let them walk.
But how bad would this team be if they had let those 5 guys walk? We would have had to draft for a long time to make up for that kind of loss of talent. We’d be worse than the browns. Could you really take it if the Ravens spanked us every year for the last three years?
Their plan also seems to be working just fine, the NFL had another record year for TV audience, next year would have to be a colossal collapse of the economic system for that to change and all signs right now are pointing up for the economy. Also the fact the players are willing to spread out their money to help the team and some will take a pay cut.
I appreciate the Steelers as a fan because they always try to put the best team possible on the field on Sundays. I live in NC, I see what Jerry Richardson did to his franchise. I’ve seen the dismay in fans, half-empty stadiums after halftime, and anger at the owner here in NC. Do we really want that? You are concerned about the future and rightfully so. But your concern stems from where we are in the present, we are here because the Rooneys and the FO do an awful good job of managing this franchise. I have no reason to believe they wont continue to do so. You may say I have gold-colored glasses on but until you can show me facts and hard evidence instead of just hunches and ideological theories, I’m sticking to my guns when I say I trust this front office to keep the Steelers competitive and financially stable. :)
We’ll get younger when we have younger talent. You don’t just get younger for the sake of it. If a guy can’t beat James Harrison out, he isn’t going to get moved until we have someone who can.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 23, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
First vote for BTSC for Best Pittsburgh Sports Blog...
…have you voted?
No, I understand the reasons for the signings, and you are not wrong on keeping the faith of the front office.
I’ve just been dealing with a bunch of issues in my business where decisions were made based on presumptions that market rents and values would continue to rise.
When they didn’t, for reasons external to that industry (e.g. macro economic issues), the result is similar to what I projected could happen to the Steelers if the projected cap increase doesn’t happen. I’ve seen too many companies close down because their corporate parents made such decisions, buildings sold for pennies on the dollar, etc.
I guess my hyperbole got out of control, but I’ve seen too many companies that had the reputation of being fiscally wise, lose sight of that wisdom and make decisions that proved calamitous, and it would be, for me, a personaly emotional disaster if such a thing occured to the Steelers.
Thanks for calling me out on this; I’ll try to tone down my concerns, and re-stoke some of that “homerism”.
…and Roger Goodell is Such an Ass.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Feb 23, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Well I wasn't trying to call you out
I think it came off all wrong.
I agree there is risk in every business, I understood your hyperbole, I don’t think it got too far out of control other than trying to say the Steelers were straying from their principles.
Also, I think the people that tore down our economy knew what they were doing, they were just so greedy that they didn’t care. But that could be my left-winged bias. Either way I like to be able to disagree without you being my enemy. We are all human/Steeler fans.
I don’t want you to tone down your concerns, I like dialogue. Dissension is good on this blog it keeps things from being stale. As long as we do it civilly and don’t attack each other personally.
Cheers!
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 23, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
First vote for BTSC for Best Pittsburgh Sports Blog...
…have you voted?
Thanks for calling me out on this
maybe the wrong way to characterize how I took your post, not meant as a negative, I took your post in the spirit it was meant.
We’re cool.
…and Roger Goodell is Such an Ass
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Again
You compared two concepts. Not the same. The f “bomb” wasn’t exactly on you personally. Yeah, I know how to look stuff up on the internet as well, thanks. ;-)
No need to get snippy....
…I posted the definition to forestall further arguments over what the word specifically means, and why I used it.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Besides
This is a football blog. Why must you constantly bring in politics and economics? Even for metaphor or analogy? Pick something else less divisive.
I use analogies to make a point...
…and use things that others here at BTSC may have in common with me, so they are familiar with the subjects of the analogies.
Just as you have the right to comment on what I post, and base such comments on your opinions, and place qualifiers on what I wrote, I too have the right to recall previous comments and draw conclusions from them.
In both instances, it was you who went postal and started cursing, so the emotive responsibility is yours. I see the world as I do, and you see it as you do. If you don’t like what I write, or how I express myself, sorry but that’s who I am. If you don’t want people to make assumptions about you, based on what you write, don’t wear your heart on your sleeve.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
huh?
Funny, you seem to wear your feelings on your sleeve. Are you projecting?
Let’s just leave this alone, OK?
I admit I do...
…but I don’t react when someone references them.
Fine, alone this is left.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
wow
This is a good place to learn. We have rhetoric, economics, history and english. If it turns to physics or calc its gonna get scary.lol
keiselsbeard
How about Quantum Mechanics?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Wrong. I don’t. Unfortunately, one side doesn’t know what compromise is or what it means to work together. They just stand in one corner and cover their ears and scream “Free Markets!!!” and “Less Government!!.” I’m battling fire with fire. It has come to this. It’s not my fault, it’s what has been created over the last 10 years.
You are with us or against us. Sound familiar?
Why must you constantly bring in politics and economics?
This is from one of your comments. I just find it funny that there you were telling PaVaSteeler to avoid politics, and then you type this…
They just stand in one corner and cover their ears and scream "Free Markets!!!" and "Less Government!!
Yes, we get it. You hate conservatives blah blah blah. Stop being a hypocrite and keep politics out of BTSC.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
This comment will be censored.
Hey smart ass.
Read the thread. Who brought up economics and politics in the first place
Asswipe.
I just read your analysis of the economic meltdown. Lets just say there is a huge segment of the population that disagrees. You seem to be ignoring predatory lending, toxic investment schemes created for profit, good old boy crony capitalism, and blaming those that don’t have any real influence or power.
Yeah, lets leave this alone.
Go Steelers!!!
How are you going to tell him to leave it alone when the first part of your comment is only going to further the argument? Like you’re trying to get the last word or something. Come on now.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
yeah lets be more constructive
Lets bash goodell and the way he is taking the smash outta smashmouth football. You know the irresistable force vs the immovable object
keiselsbeard
Really Jake...?
You read what I wrote huh? Did you read where I referenced the mortgage lenders who lent money to people who couldn’t afford it there’s your
predatory lending
Or where I referenced the CMBS? There’s your
toxic investment schemes created for profit
Or the “young money wall street brokers” who kept the whole CMBS scheme going? there’s your
good old boy crony capitalism
And what
huge segment of the populationdisagrees with me? The home owners who took out loans they couldn’t afford, bought mcmansions because the “money was cheap”, and hey, everyone knows home values always go up, so we can flip it for a profit, right? That segment?; the one that our President even referenced as having to accept some culpability for their greed?
Or don’t you believe in personal responsibility? Would you rather have this country appoint a Handicapper General like in the Kurt Vonnegut Jr.‘s story Harrison Bergeron (I’ll let you look that up yourself)? You want everyone made equal so no one can rise to the top?
Save your banner waving for someone else, IronJake. You’re the one who can’t seem to let this go, when all I did was engage in some hyperbole.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
P.S....Roger Goodell is Such an Ass.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Predatory lending places the blame on those that provide mortgages, not
“The home owners who took out loans they couldn’t afford, bought mcmansions because the "money was cheap", and hey, everyone knows home values always go up, so we can flip it for a profit, right?” You don’t understand the nature of financial and political power. You really don’t.
What created this shithole were bankers, financial officers, mortgage brokers, lobbyists, traders, bond and stock credit raters (croney capitalists), not those that were lied to and sold mortgages that were handed off multiple times so that big wigs could reap the benefits from the poor and disenfranchised. You don’t seem to understand this. Your “assessment” blamed not only those that had the upper hand, but those looking for the American dream, and were hoodwinked.This is inaccurate and propagates the idea that the financial system isn’t rigged. It is, for financial “elites” on wall street and the beltway. Period. In addition, president Obama is playing politics, and if you believe everything he says then you are really naive.
I believe in personal responsibility when the playing field is level, not when it’s tilted towards those that have power, money and influence, and bought legislation and our government. this is the world we live in. Not when people spread misinformation and lies to further an ideology.
And you still need to understand what “hyperbole” means.
I already posted the definition of hyperbole...
…and I used it properly.
Not all the CMBS mortgages were signed by the poor and indigent; many, many people whose mortgages made up the CMBS vehicles signed up for them because they thought they could get something for nothing.
There were victims of predatory lending, no doubt; but you can’t get fleeced if you don’t believe the lies; and if you let your greed cloud your judgement, its your fault.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Pot, meet Kettle
I’m done with this.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Hey folks! Check this out!! it’s not really true, but if I keep repeating it, it’ll stick!!!
Yah, right.
You don’t seem to remember that you’re the one that brought this up in the first place. I haven’t initiated politics or economics in at least a year, but your politics is that of spreading a lie based on one instance that occurred months ago. Nice. Liar.
You are the hypocrite.
First vote for BTSC for best Pittsburgh Sports Blog...
…I’d direct you to the link, but you’ve made it clear you know how to look things up on the internet…
then I’ll consider continuing this fascinating discussion.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Feb 22, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
First vote for BTSC for Best Pittsburgh Sports Blog...
…wait….did you vote yet?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Feb 22, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
And Roger Goodell is Such an Ass
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Feb 22, 2012 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
First vote for BTSC for best Pittsburgh Sports Blog (find link on main page)...
…we can’t continue this discussion until you’ve voted IronJake…assuming voting on a media site doesn’t make you complicit with the “brainwashing” all of the media does, or by voting you become “part of the system”.
You are with us or against us. Sound familiar?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
...and Roger Goodell is Such an Ass
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
I think that is something
we as America can agree on.
Matter of fact the first person to say that, running for president, gets my vote. lol
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 23, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Once again IronJake displays his blatant hypocrisy.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
sounds like you should shut the hell up
get off here and go occupy wall street
Why do we get so emotional about politics?
We can disagree and still love each other like hippys man. Love conquers all!
Can’t we all just get along?
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 23, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
But I agree. I suspect they are in situation because they really believed #7 was around the corner, either in 2010 or 2011. Then cut aging stars, and start anew with “young money” and “young defense” while BR has a few more years left to mentor a new qb. I think they take a qb in this years draft?
I think, to a point, we should back off the assumption that “aging stars” are the root of the problem here.
First off, the Steelers had the league’s best scoring defense last year. And that was with the supposed gawd-awful James Farrior and Larry Foote playing pretty much the whole year. It was also with James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley barely ever playing together.
The youth is already playing. Cam Heyward, because of injuries, played more than any other front-seven defensive player did in Pittsburgh his rookie year. We had a third-year guy and a rookie playing in the secondary sub packages. One of them will start next year. We aren’t starting anew in anything.
Plus, March 13 is the deadline for all of this. It’s Feb. 22. Lots of time to make moves still.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 22, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
I understand that. What I mean is that certain guys just won’t be at the top of their game for long. It’s slow “creep” (to use an engineering term) but when it hits the peak, it’s a rapid decline – like when you heat aluminum to its melting point, it turns to liquid really fast. Not like steel that gets red hot for a while before slowly succumbing. Man, I’m liking this metaphor sh*t.
The “aging stars” I refer to are players like Farrior, Polumalu, A. Smith, Hampton, Ward, even Foote, to a degree. Harrison, although is still a beast, won’t be able to rely on his pure athleticism for the downward part of his career. As much as I like him, it’s not like his brains are what makes him a spectacular OLB. Pursuit, relentlessness, and a motor that won’t quit. That motor won’t last forever. I’m guessing the steeler organization, if engaging in due diligence, is looking forward 5-8 years.
Also, see my comment below. This whole thing is an ever changing problem with variables that change every day. Yeah, lots of time.
sounds like you should shut the hell up,
get off here and go occupy wall street
a comment so nice, you had to type it twice
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
this is worse than our little run in lol
at least it was about football lol
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 23, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Time to fish or cut bait
I really would hate to see Wallace go. But there comes a time when you have to make the tough decisions and move on. In that regard: Goodbye and thank you Smith, Farrior, Hampton, Kemo and J Scott. Offer Ward, and Foote one year veteran minimum contracts (approx. $900 and $700). Restructure Ben and Harrison, and if that still doesn’t clear enough, then time to get real. Let Wallace go. Use additional 1st rounder to fix OL and DL, (Glenn & Poe?). Get Brown and Sanders under contract for 2013 and beyond, and re-up Cotchery for 3 years for $9 million with $5 SB.
and re-up Cotchery for 3 years for $9 million with $5 SB.
Get Cotchery on the phone, he has a new agent!
The guy caught 16 passes last year…c’mon…$9 million and a $5 million signing bonus?
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
for real, extend Brown and Sanders RIGHT THE HECK NOW!!! Not later when Brown is more recognized as one of the best in the game, not after he makes his second pro bowl, NOW!
why when they are so cheap next year?
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 22, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
I’m surprised Neal (who revealed himself as a major Parcells fan) has not quashed the multitude of posts like this with one of Parcells more famous lines
Why Neal is Right to Ask These Questions
One thing I’ve always loved about Steelers fans…we aren’t ever allowed to question the direction of the team, and if we do, we should root for the Bengals. I wrote this in a tongue-in-cheek joke at that kind of thinking. I’m gonna get ripped for writing it anyway, but I feel they’re legitimate questions to ask, but we don’t collectively feel comfortable asking questions surrounding the decisions of the front office.
Neal, there is NO reason why you should feel defensive about asking these questions. The team has some serious salary cap issues, and at first glance they seem to be kicking the can down the road.
As to “no, we shouldn’t ask these questions, the brain trust got us this far and knows what its doing….”
That’s true. Its true that Rooney, Colbert, and Kahn know more about the salary cap than any of us.
But its also true that Art Rooney Jr., Dick Haley, and Bill Nunn know more about scouting players than we do. And by the time the Steelers were winning their second two Super Bowls their drafting was already in the middle of a downward turn that would not be corrected until 1987.
How many fans were asking the same kind of tough questions about drafts that yielded the likes of Greg Hawthorne, Zack Valentine, and Russell Davis (first three picks of the 1979 draft).
The explanation then was “this is what happens when you draft really late, consistently,” never mind that the 1974 draft came after a playoff season and yielded 4 Hall of Famers.
by Hombre de Acero on Feb 21, 2012 6:24 PM EST reply actions
Who the hell is Greg Hawthorne?
You can “draft late” and be ok, you just have to emphasize taking value at that spot, and make the absolute most out of your mid-round picks. The Steelers, like the Colts, have done that, and those were two of the best teams in football from 2001-2010.
The Steelers ran into a bit of a buzzsaw with younger guys grossly exceeding expectations – we thought Wallace would be a player, but not the level that he is, Antonio Brown was the first Steeler to win the team MVP award in his second season since Woodson. Combine those kinds of things with veterans at the end of legendary careers that carry with them hefty contracts, a few injuries forcing other younger guys in the spotlight…there are still tough decisions to be made, but remember in 2009, when the Steelers fell apart in every game that had a fourth quarter? They felt, internally, part of the problem was they didn’t have those veteran sorts of leaders in the locker room. They re-sign a bunch of them (Foote, Randle El, McFadden, Leftwich), they go from 9-7 to the Super Bowl with none of those guys playing an instrumental role.
They’re caught between the future and the past, and the balance will never be as delicate as it is right now. They cannot simply give James Farrior or Casey Hampton away (provided they are physically healthy enough to play it). They cannot go into this draft, reeking of desperation, looking to land starters with four of their first six picks.
Business as usual…value trumps all, continue to reload. Still lots of talent on this team.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"they're caught between the future and the past"
An absolutely brilliant way to describe this proud franchise in a period of transition, Neal.
I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson
“Depressing” is what I was thinking when I wrote it, but thank you all the same. (Cracking a Duff)
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Duff!
Dang, now I want a beer.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 21, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
dont get too depressed neal. One thing the steelers also have going for them are 53 players committed to winning. How many other teams can you think of that have so many players ALL willing restructure their FAAAAAT new contracts to help the team get under the cap? Couple that with our pretty darn good scouting department, cap savvy folks like Omar Khan and Kevin Colbert at the helm as well as a few more weeks to work with, and I think we’ll be just fine. I’m not one of those kool-aid drinking, “all is well”, “america is right and you’re wrong” types who doesn’t tolerate any criticism to the front office. But I definitely think are a lot less bleak than the picture you’re painting
I only hope that our final reaction to Khan's and Colbert's machinations....won't be this:
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Feb 22, 2012 8:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
awesome!
watched it two weekends ago
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 22, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
It was the best of the "old" Star Trek movies...by far
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
you nerd…..
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
lol
i think anyone would like that movie, short, sweet, and very intense. Great story line and I like how they turned the movies into a TV series. lol Its like they didn’t know how to end it.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 23, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
nerd is a compliment
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 24, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
They get theirs, son!
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Feb 24, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
I was thinking more of Jobs and Gates
et al.
One of my kids is a classic nerd except that he plays left guard and has a nasty streak on the field. He really doesn’t like LBs who blitz to hard. Usually, in a game, they don’t try on him twice.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 24, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Greg Hawthorne
Who the hell is Greg Hawthorne?
You can "draft late" and be ok, you just have to emphasize taking value at that spot, and make the absolute most out of your mid-round picks. The Steelers, like the Colts, have done that, and those were two of the best teams in football from 2001-2010.
My point exactly.
Greg Hawthorne was the Steelers first round pick in 1979.
My point wasn’t to comment on their drafting now, but to indicate that what undid the ’70’s dynasty was that in the short span of a few years they went to leading the league in drafting, to drafting duds. Yet, I’d bet you the meager sum in my IRA that when the dud drafting began in the late 1970’s, no one was asking, “Gee, why are we drafting stiffs like this all of the sudden.”
The Steelers have succeded because they’ve managed the salary cap well — committed to building from within, never put too many eggs in one basket, and never threw money around blindly.
Your essential question is, “What’s going on with Steelers cap management?” Now perhaps this is no big deal, but perhaps you’re on to something.
by Hombre de Acero on Feb 21, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
If wallace does go
I hope they have the sense to get Brown and Sanders signed right away to decent contracts. The whole accounting aspect of the nfl is becoming a bit of a bummer, but its better than not having a cap. I thought that I read an article just a couple of years ago that the Steelers were going to continue signing their players to contracts as if the cap was still in place so that when the cap was back in placethey would’nt have the problem that they are having right now. (WHAT HAPPENED)
keiselsbeard
Ya ever have that co-worker who comes in with a look that says "I have a gun and a shovel, and I doubt anyone will miss you, so don’t toy with me today"?
I had that look today because my company screwed me again. The office manager is denying me a promotion I earned by completing grad school.
by steeler_in_maryland on Feb 21, 2012 6:40 PM EST reply actions
Dig into your company’s HR policies, some places require elevated levels of education be paid more than the base. Bonuses sometimes come with it too.
Is your office manager the hiring manager? I’ve come across cases in which the internal culture lead everyone to believe this one lady was in charge of everything, but in reality, she had just been there so long and was so domineering, no one questioned her. It got to the point she was hiring and firing people she had no control over, and it turned into a pretty big lawsuit.
(I’m a total dork, I eat and breathe these kinds of things in my work life. Probably part of the reason I spend much of the day talking about the Steelers)
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
Work is the happy place, the Steelers stress me out!
p.s. I’m not writing a story about how Ben and Haley have finally spoken to each other. I don’t care, neither should any of you. Just my opinion…
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Neil say it with me..........Goosfraba
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
by Pittsblitz56 on Feb 21, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
I prefer “annoyed” to “angry.”
That we consider two grown men who:
have nothing official to do with each other for another two months, and
while both of those grown men have plenty of things to do on their own without the counsel of the other,
speaking for the first time, news, confirms to me the complete wussification of our entire society.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with ya
the thought of Wallace to the Bengals,NE or Baltimore scares the shitzki out of me. Even Houston, to pair with A Johnson. WOW!!!
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
by Pittsblitz56 on Feb 21, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
They don’t have the money either, but if they did…I already expected them to compete heavily for a championship. That would be an extremely difficult offense to stop, and they already have the best defense in the AFC (my opinion)
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't know they had cap issues.
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
by Pittsblitz56 on Feb 21, 2012 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
They have to find a way to keep Mario Williams (untagable, basically), Arian Foster and Chris Meyers, along with finding another complimentary receiver. Challenging offseason there, but certainly do-able.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
'Tis the Offseason
Media Spin and Crappery
I pledge allegiance to the Terrible Towel and the only team in America, and to the franchise for which it stands, one nation under Rooney, indivisible, with the ability to crush you all.
"He was popping off down there the first time they were about to score. So you run your mouth, expect to get something. Everything's between the lines, so he got what he had coming. He was running his mouth and getting in the way of the train, and the train wasn't coming off the track."
-James Harrison on Kyle Orton
I guess
all the drama of the lock out last season has them spoiled.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 22, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Man
we sure agree here Neal. Thats been rare lately. ;)
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 22, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
So, can someone explain to me why the new cba prevents Haley and BR from talking about the playbook? What exactly is the purpose of this? How would the the NFL know if they did?
Unless of course Haley has some inside information about bugs and wiretaps.
I’m more interested (if not mildly amused) at how they expect to discover it. Joking aside, I think it’s really more for the players to have something to lean on if they’re coaches are hammering them in the off-season and setting job expectations during a time they’re not allowed to do so.
The player would turn the coach in, if it was something the player felt was out of line, I would guess.
Roethlisberger doesn’t strike me as a study geek, but he’s ultra competitive. he’ll flip through a few plays if he feels it’ll give him an advantage.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 22, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t understand this. Players get paid a huge amount of money to work for essentially half a year. You’d think they would do anything and everything to get an edge. I would be studying film, practicing with my receivers, and developing the strategy with my OC as early as possible, but what the hell do I know? I ain’t gettin’ a cool mil or so to play in the NFL.
There’s still plenty of time for all that. Besides, you gotta let them enjoy the money they’re being paid in exchange for a healthy post-career life. It doesn’t seem unreasonable to not make them try out for their jobs 25/8/365. Give them some time off, get them back in June and let them get to work.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 22, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Man I'm glad I'm not the only one--
My CEO said he’d pay 40K for grad school then when I was accepted bucked it down to 4K. What a tool. My goal is to get it anyway and buy the company. Anyone wanna go in on it? Only 60 million!
Hang in there. Many times there’s a non-compete when school is completed you can’t jump ship for “X” number of years. Bad thing is many times this enables them to screw talent (YOU) out of a justified higher income.
"My baby...my mechanical masterpiece. So nearly complete. So nearly perfect. If I only had a living brain."--Evil Scientist, Looney Toones, circa 1952
"Well you're better than any player I ever had. And you're the best God damn hitter I ever saw. Suit up."--Pop Fisher, THE NATURAL
by SaratogaSteelerFan on Feb 21, 2012 9:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And the lesson is, as always, get it in writing.
If they’re making you sign a NCA upon graduating and aren’t paying for the whole thing, tell them to go do stuff to themselves. Tell them you’ll pay for it yourself, and let them know when you’re done.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 21, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Faith based upon results
Your article makes some valid points. I would prefer for the team not to be in this cap situation, and I am somewhat concerned. However, the front office has a proven track record of managing the business side of things and putting a competitive team on the field. Things will be tight with the cap over the next couple of years, but as long as they get solid contributions from some younger and cheaper players, they will weather the storm and compete for more Lombardi trophies. Asking these questions is legitimate, but I have faith in the front office at the end of the day
Not sure why
Not sure why Colon should get a contract he hasn’t played in 2 years which was an immediate upgrade to the right tackle position. He guaranteed at least one illegal formation call a game by lining up too far back, he guaranteed at least 2 false starts a game and one holding so just why is he so important? I know Tomlin once said Willie was the best offensive lineman on the team but then Tomlin thought Scott would be a good starting left tackle for the Steeler’s.
And some people...
have no idea what they are talking about! Go find some real facts.
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo (1970)
Colon
In 2009, before Colon had ever missed a game after he took over RT, he was rated as the top right tackle in the league by football outsiders. Also, I am guessing that if you got hurt on the job, you would not give back your worker’s compensation. I can’t blame a guy for not “earning” his money, when he was legitimately injured playing football.
If you think that Willie is penalized like that, then you have not paid attention since 2008.
Sometimes you go all in.
I think our front office looked at our roster and said “Our window is closing, let’s take our shot with this team before we break it up.”
Now don’t get me wrong, we have some young pieces, and our offense isn’t old. However, the group that went to the Super Bowl in 2010 for our defense was still mostly the same group from 2005. Two Defensive starters were not on the team in 2005.
This team had some epic luck in drafting around the turn of the millenium, and now they are declining, we are paying big money because we are keeping together an aging expensive defense, while rebuilding on the fly, which means young players are being kept. I also think we’ve dished out several “reward” contracts for players that have been here and we could have stiffed or let walk, but again, that window is closing, you do your best to keep it open and get one more shot.
The end game for our salary cap hell is a slew of players being gone. That will happen, we are old and a good amount of this team is ready to retire. That will solve the salary cap issues.
I believe both Colbert and Art II have acknowledged this!
I believe they have admitted to taking some liberties in 2010 & 2011 in order to make run both years. I also don’t think they thought the cap in 2012 would be so low, back in 2010 when they made that decision.
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo (1970)
I have no problem with questioning things,
but I still think we’ll be ok with this. My guess is that they chose to get immediate cap relief by guaranteeing some of the guys who aren’t going anywhere, while they take the time to figure out how they want to handle the more difficult decisions. I’d be more concerned if they were guaranteeing non-franchise type players. So I guess Colon is the only one that has me wondering. There is still plenty of space to find among: A. Smith, Hampton, Farrior, Foote, Ward, W. Allen, Kemo, J. Scott.
In fact, from all of those guys, we may even get some space to grab a starter in FA that eases the needs in the draft.
Unfortunately, this is the price a team must pay for trying to keep a championship team together for so long. And I don’t blame them. You ride that horse until is collapses, but sooner or later, you’re going to have to pay the piper.
If the Steelers franchise Wallace, as I understand it, they’ll have to pay him in the $9 million range. And if they want to negotiate a long-term deal, it’ll have to average that per season. Maybe I"m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that’s what I heard.
The question is, what team would be willing to pay a wide receiver so much money that the Steelers would be forced to part ways with him? If the Bengals, or any other team, makes Wallace that kind of offer, wouldn’t they be penalizing themselves in the end? That’s an awfully big contract to give a wide receiver.
for the bengals it would be a win in two ways. A potential tandem of Wallace and AJ Green absolutely scares the jeebus outta me AND it would ensure that Wallace stops torching the Bengals secondary. However, I find it very hard to believe a receiver is worth 9 mil a year unless it’s Megatron or Larry Fitzgerald
Cap
I am not worried about the cap. I think the Steelers will come through. I do think that they could have handled the uncapped year better by restructuring contracts and front loading contracts for Clark, Hampton and other guys, but the Steelers may not have had the resources to do that.
I still think that Wallace will either get franchised or signed. The Steelers cannot go in to next year with so many aging players with large cap numbers. They will have to cut guys like Ward, Foote, Kemoeatu, and I believe, Hampton.
Just need to wait and see
Some post have already said it. If you draft, find or develop talent you will eventually have to pay for it. All there is to do now is sit a wait, There a basically the front office has to do three things.
- Get under the cap.
- Sign talent to support whatever offensive changes there will be
- Lessen the impact of cap adjustment this ear on the future
Hope Wallce stays. We just have to wait a see. Not sure if the Steelers have ever had this much trouble after a 12 – 4 record.
At the Risk of Incurring the Wrath of Khan ...
Somebody needed to write a post like this and call out the Steelers for how they’ve handled (or mis-handled) the planning of their cap situation the past two or three years. Your write-up is much more thoughtful, detailed and better written than anything I could have crafted, but the same damn thing occurred to me a couple weeks ago when news leaked that St. Louis was making overtures to Omar Khan. I’m not looking to blame anybody in particular here — I imagine a lot of people get involved in these decisions — but how is it that the Steelers are in this mess?
To me, the Willie Colon contract extension last year was a head-scratcher at the time and looks like a terrible decision today, even in light of the “restructuring” announced this week. They committed a five-year, $25 million contract to Colon but let Mike Wallace twist in the wind? What’s Willie Colon ever done? … hang out with Ben in Milledgeville?
The Bengals — never a model of how to run a pro football franchise — are $60 million under the cap. SIXTY MILLION UNDER THE CAP! You think they wouldn’t like to sign Mike Wallace? Or the Patriots, or the Ravens? Yeah, the Bengals stink, and I am grateful to be a Steelers’ fan, but how did the Steelers get to this point?
Now they have some decisions to make. Chuck Noll used to say — after he learned his lesson in the late 70s and early 80s — that it’s better to let a player go a year early than to hang onto him a year late. The Steelers are going to have to make those kinds of decisions during the next few weeks, as painful as they will be. Players we love, too: Casey Hampton? Aaron Smith? James Farrior? Charlie Batch? Larry Foote? Decisions will need to made on these players and others.
To me, though, the Willie Colon contract is Exhibit A of a well-intentioned mistake that now is having ripple effects … which may result in the loss of Mike Wallace. I believe — I have faith — that the Steelers will work out something with Wallace. But it should never have gotten to this point.
by Joey Porter's PitBulls on Feb 22, 2012 8:25 AM EST reply actions
There is a long time left before the first game of 2012. Who knows what the FO has up their sleeve?
Managing the books and the roster is a problem with variables that constantly change in light of the current circumstances, and those circumstances will be changing constantly between now and September.
No Wrath for me
If you get talent on your team you will have to play them. This is the problem the Steeler have. It is a nice one to have. Pain to deal with but nice to have. Think about and look at what happen to these players: Casey Hampton, Aaron Smith, James Farrior, Charlie Batch and Larry Foote. If they are healthy and want to play it would not be hard seeing them getting one year contracts at or above what the Steelers are playing them if the are cut. I think if Kemo is cut he would get a couple if team bidding on him.
How are the Bengal 60 Million under the cap?
- They are cheap.
- They have a roster full of young players. At the start of 2011 they we the 22nd youngest team.
- Not many vets on roster rate fat contracts. Some of the vets like Benson are working on "2nd chance contracts.
This is how you get that far under the cap. The cap pain the Steelers are in is a good kind of pain. It is a pain you can work through.
by Willard Taylor on Feb 22, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Bring on the hate
I like Wallace, but he isn’t worth the Tag price. He is still a one trick pony, he is fast as hell and that is it. He doesn’t adjust or fight for the ball, if it doesn’t fall into his hands then it is dropped or picked. He is not a top tier, all around reciever. He helps the offense, but is far from the only weapon. If they find a way to resign him fine, if not the team will survive and be fine.
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Feb 22, 2012 9:03 AM EST reply actions
YEP
I agree Stillergorillar. Ya know what , you dont need to be the fastest guy in the league; you just have to be faster than the guy thats covering you.
keiselsbeard
True
But it’s a much safer bet you can fulfill that requirement if you’re the fastest guy in the league.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
do some research before making assumptions
wallace was one of the most dependable receivers in the league last year. with 113 passes thrown his way, he dropped 4.
by steel.curtain.number2 on Feb 22, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
i didn't
Make any assumptions. I watched the guy play. He was targeted 113 timesand only dropped 4, yet he only caught 72 regular season and 3 more in the playoff. That leaves 34 unaccounted for passes. I never said the guy was garbage, but he isn’t worth top five reciever money IMO.
You don’t agree, fine. But don’t call my observations assumptions when I watched every single game and watched him not fight for balls, make little to no adjustment to passes and make half assed attempts at blocking.
I like Wallace and would like him to stay, but not at the costs that are being bandied about.
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Feb 22, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85cL1HisrNc
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
nice
People don't ever seem to realize that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune.
- William McFee
by stillergorillar on Feb 23, 2012 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
cap
Holding onto a lot of these older players “so the Super Bowl window does not close” is a mistake for sure; this could really hurt PITT for years down the road I fear. They need to “cut ties” with many of these players and move on, or we will be like PITT in the 80’s and early 90"s I fear.
If only they could have done what Belichick could do huh? Maybe we should have traded Tomlin, Ben, Troy, Wallace, and Brown for Belichick and Brady..then we our team wouldn’t suck so bad. Right?
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
I have no idea why they don't just use the non-exclusive rights franchise tag on Wallace
That way the Bengals (or any other team) would have to lose 2 picks, not just 1. With our current salary cap and age problems, I would be open to effectively trading Wallace for 2 first round picks.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Because they don’t have the salary cap room to give him a non-exclusive tag (likely around $9.6 million).
The argument here is whether a team will sign him to an offer sheet after the Steelers give him the first-round tender level in restricted free agency. That may be the Steelers’ only choice, considering their salary cap situation.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 22, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Something I have been thinking about a lot:
All the talk I see is that we want to cap to go up so we can fit in the signing of our players…however, as a small market franchise, don’t we benefit more by having a LOWER salary cap?
The higher the cap goes, the more difficult it gets to compete with big market teams that have more to spend.
I understand its going to go up regardless because of all the revenue the NFL generates, but isn’t this something we should be upset about in the long term?
by jedmiller71 on Feb 22, 2012 11:17 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I see your point, but obviously the Steelers didn’t have a problem racking up a team salary that exceeded the current cap by $20 million, so I’d say they’d be willing to spend pretty close to it.
Besides, in the NFL, revenue sharing and TV dollars bolster a huge amount of incoming cash, if the Steelers chose to invest it, they’d be able to compete just fine. A larger cap means each team is getting more money. Plus, teams that spend the most (i.e. bring in the most free agents) aren’t usually the best teams. Ask Dan Snyder how well that strategy has treated him in past years in Washington.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 22, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
ha ha
Sorry for laughing but every time I see or hear Dan Snyders name it causes me to laugh. For a dude that has so much money , he is an idiot. Just hearing his name makes me feel smarter
keiselsbeard
Living in the DC area all these years...
..it has both brought me amusement watching Lord Danny ruin a great franchise, and saddened me to see such a loyal fanbase treated like peasants who should be grateful for their bowl of gruel. The pinnacle of it all was when L’ Danny sent security guards into the stands to take away signs some fans brought protesting his actions, and the lawsuit he filed against a local free paper reporter for calling him a liar about the season ticket debacle.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
50 Sense
Great post Cool. I completely see your perspective, but perhaps I can help talk you in off the ledge. Well, you don’t seem to be on the ledge, but maybe I can back you away from the open window?
- Why is this year different than others in terms of cap space? The Steelers knew they had a championship window wide open with guys like 7, 43, 86, 92 etc. and moved to exploit as many Lombardi’s as possible. They understand it could be 26 years before they put themselves in this position again and are going to get as much silver right now as humanly possible.
- Colbert & Khan will negotiate the rough cap waters this year and field a competitive team in Pittsburgh. We may have to say goodbye to guys like 86, 51, 98, 78 etc but the Steelers will always compete as long as 7 is suiting up.
- The Steelers are used to drafting WRs high and after getting what they can being content to watch the WR walk for big $$$ and get over paid somewhere else. Burress, Holmes…Wallace? If so we will persevere. Wallace is very good…Holmes was better than Wallace and Burress might have been better than either of the two. The Steelers have Brown and Sanders. Ward will restructure and play for nothing. Maybe if Wallace is gone they will need to run the ball more and control the clock and the ultimate outcome a bit more?
- As long as the Steelers draft well in the first couple rounds they will continue to reload the corps and be competitive. That is why I cringe at the trade down talk. With the success the Steelers have had at #1 why trade down? There is a starter for the next decade sitting there at 24. Take him and move on from 98, 51, 78 or someone else with a big contract that is past his prime.
- To the comment above about Mendenhall and his increasing salary…Mendenhall is gone. He will be PUP until healthy. That won’t be until sometime after the season has started. By then the Steelers will have Redman, Dwyer, Batch, Clay, Moore and whomever else setting the pace. He will be given a injury settlement or an out right release. He is in the last year of a contract coming off a ACL injury, a championship killing fumble in a Super Bowl and a moronic tweet. He will be spinning and falling for another NFL team and perhaps get back up to speed by 2013 or 2014.
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
I think Mendy will be ready for the season
8 months for an ACL til august, season starts in September thats 9 months. We saw Batch running well after his ACL tear after 6 months. So 6 months for Mendy is June, camp starts at the end of July. Of course this all depends on the degree of tear Mendy suffered which I don’t think that info was ever released.
I don’t think the ACL thing is as bad as people are making it out to be.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 22, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think the ACL thing is as bad as people are making it out to be.
It might even help him if hes unable to spin so much.
LOL
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
- Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
Not many running backs come out of them the same player they were.
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
You mean like Frank Gore?
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 23, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
He was also 18 or 19 when that happened
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
Mendy is still young
I could name others Jamal Lewis or Ronnie Brown.
I’m just saying its not a death sentence. We’ll see how he responds.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 23, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks, it was a bit draft by that window
The Steelers knew they had a championship window wide open with guys like 7, 43, 86, 92 etc. and moved to exploit as many Lombardi’s as possible.
Only one of those guys (43) got an extension last season, and while 7 and 92 restructured, so did 24, 56 and 94, guys whom they signed last season. I don’t see how giving them extensions last season when three of those four weren’t free agents. I see your point, I’m just saying if they shot their wad to win championships, why are those guys signed through five years from now? Sounds to me like they were planning ahead, and sacrificing, possibly, the present.
Holmes was better than Wallace and Burress might have been better than either of the two.
Pure skills and all-around athleticism, Holmes leaves both of them quite a ways behind. Main difference is the declining trend of where we picked them. Wallace has by far the most value. That trend, though, shows we should be confident in finding it again. Gotta keep in mind, he’s slightly built and really isn’t all that strong. Hellacious speed, but that alone doesn’t make you a first round pick (Al Davis picks being the exception to the rule).
Mendenhall……(sigh)……..You saw the play was blown up, Rashard…you ran so well that game, even better the game before it. We score on that drive, we win. I don’t care what Packers fans say. In a win, you are the MVP. WHY DID YOU HAVE TO TRY TO MAKE A MOVE?!?!? JUST GO DOWN!!!! AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!
But Neal; the really important question is......
did you catch the dog ?
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.
Oh, I did…it came down to a shoestring tackle around the bridge that goes over the creek. I just wanted it more than he did.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 22, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
well done !
we needed you in the Steeler’s backfield on that last play in Denver
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.
id like to know why its taking so long to make cuts
we’re obviously going to have to cut more than a few guys. why not get that out of the way before spending all this time and effort restructuring contracts?
by steel.curtain.number2 on Feb 22, 2012 2:00 PM EST reply actions
Because I think they want to keep some of these guys.
Also, in some cases, they can reduce the cap hit this year by waiting until June to cut them.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 22, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
From the sound of it on sirius
Wallace wants everything to be perfect , He wants a big time contract and a superbowl contending team to pick up the tab. I lose a little more respect for him each day. Bummer though , because I liked him
keiselsbeard
K. Colbert & O. Kahn weren't born yesterday ...
Steelers will get a deal done with Wallace or franchise him & then work out a long-term deal. He’s a top 5 player on this team and a top 6 WR in the NFL about to hit his prime. The Steelers will give him a 5-year deal with about a $10M signing bonus (they’ll guarantee a lot more money but the signing bonus won’t break the bank).
True no. 1 WR’s don’t grow on trees folks.
by datruth4life2.0 on Feb 22, 2012 3:59 PM EST reply actions
I don’t think I would call him a top 5 player on our team, but I see your point.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
On O the only players that can be considered above him talent wise are Pouncey and Ben. Behind Ben and Troy, it’s a toss up. Deebo vs Mike vs Keisel vs Timmons. I’d rate the top x amount of players on the team as the players the team can least afford to go without.
1. Ben (hands down)
2. Troy
3. Ike
4. Pouncey
5. Woodley (at this point I’d say he is better than Harrison)
You can arrange Ike, Pouncey, and Woodley in any of the last three spots you want, but I would put them in the top 5.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
I'd honestly put it
like this
1. Troy
2. Harrison
3. Ben
4. Woodley
5. Pouncey
Troy has the most talent on this team imo. there is no one else in the world that can do everything he does. Harrison is second because, when healthy, his production is just off the charts from coverage, to sacks, to tackles, to force fumbles, he is just instance with all the things he can do. Then Ben then Woodley who shown this year he can produce without Harrison and Pouncey.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 23, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
I think wallace is top 10 though
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 23, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Great discussion
Almost all of the posts have been great discussions. Just wanted to thank Steeler Nation for that. I guess I generally would lean more toward releasing older players, even if it seems early, and then trusting coaches to develop younger (and cheaper) guys, with the exception of a true franchise QB. In that light, the FO probably deviated a bit from a successful model. But, I also like to see things play out until the cap deadline hits. One of the best managers I’ve ever worked with said, “Don’t make a decision until you have to.” Meaning: don’t preempt any options that may avail themselves. I tend to agree in this case. I’m not relaxed, but not too anxious.
As for Wallace, let him go if he’s too expensive. Receivers are usually very available in later rounds of the draft and in FA. Sucks to lose a good player (especially to a conference foe like NE), but again, trust your scouts and coaches if they’ve given you reason to trust them (open for debate, but generally I think they have).
In fact, should we call Randy Moss? I think he’d play for next to nothing. In a good environment, he’ll play hard. Maybe send our scouts to his place with some stopwatches and cones and see if he still has it physically. If so… why not take a flyer? Just sayin’.
With the salary cap issues we're facing...
Will there ever be a better draft for us to lose Wallace???
If we are outbid by a team with a 1st round pick, we will:
1)save on the big contract to be bestowed upon Wallace
2)obtain a 1st round pick, and we could draft a probable adequate replacement
3)we can use either of the 2 1st round picks as a high value pick to take whoever falls
4)Our WR corps will contain a 1st-rounder, Brown, Sanders at the very least…and it’s still going to be a handful…
In such a situation, the best move should be to offer the tender that would give us a first round pick to Wallace and see what goes… I wouldn’t be disappointed keeping Wallace , but I won’t be disappointed if he leaves either… I think it works out well for the Steelers..
"Ya ever have that co-worker who comes in with a look that says "I have a gun and a shovel, and I doubt anyone will miss you, so don't toy with me today"? "
I have totally gotten that look before!!
That is when I give the look back that says,
“My best friend is in the FBI and I’m well-loved by friends & family, so give your stupid look to someone else ASAP, fool!”
Hahaha, good article, as always!
Http:// tr4f.wordpress.com
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
by Fifty-Eight on Feb 23, 2012 5:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Shovel and gun
I would point out that I have a friend who is paid to kill people for a living and is trained in intelligence work. I don’t bother pointing out that he would be at far more risk of my now elderly redneck brother-in-law deciding that he doesn’t mind a few years in prison at taxpayers expense in exchange for the joy of revenging a family member. Old school doesn’t come close to it.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 24, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
What movie was that?
Does your intelligence friend look like Deniro? I could have sworn Ive seen this before.
no movie
In my world, people who are in the military are paid to kill people… they are also expected to do a lot of other things as well, including military intelligence. It just sounds nastier when I put it the other way. Like I said, the redneck with nothing to lose would be a lot more of a concern. One other is bound by orders and professionalism, the other just by whether he thinks he has a good chance of getting away with it (and what the consequences would be if caught).
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 24, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
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