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Threat of Concussion Issue Bringing Down the NFL Very Real Possibility

The article linked here by economists Tyler Cowen and Kevin Grier published on grantland.com brings to light the troubling issue of concussions in regards to the future of the NFL.

It should be required reading for any football fan with a genuine interest and concern for the future of the game. Consider yourself warned in advance that you won’t like what you read. But as they say, to be forewarned is to be forearmed.

My 11 year old great nephew Jaylen is a great young athlete in general, and an outstanding young football player in particular. This past fall he led his Pop Warner team to the league championship with an avalanche of touchdowns immortalized on my niece’s Facebook page.

Eleven is a little early to predict success down the road in a sport like football, but there are indications of a bright athletic future for Jaylen.

With athletic parents and grandparents, he has a solid bloodline. The culture of support is robust. His step father is his current head coach as well as an assistant coach for the local high school team. Dallas Cowboys defensive lineman Marcus Spears is a close family friend; so close, in fact, when his branch of the family resided in the Dallas area, Jaylen was a regular in the Cowboys training facility and would travel on the team bus. Yet, it is possible that Jaylen’s football career may not last nearly as long as its promise.

Star-divide

If I had a vote on Jaylen's athletic future (and I don't) I would vote "no" to football, maybe high school, but certainly no further. And I really like football. The issue has to do with risk vs. reward.

It is becoming abundantly clear many of the risks (permanent and life threatening injuries can occur even at young ages) involved with playing the game are outstripping the potential rewards. The gap between risk and reward is even greater for Jaylen, a straight 'A' student from a middle class home who has other athletic options (he may be an even better basketball player and shows exceptional promise in every sport he tries).

I was a Pop Warner coach 20 years ago, so upon viewing one of Jaylen's games this past fall, I saw subtle yet striking differences. We live in Fairfax County, Va., one of the most affluent county in the nation.

The participating families were more working class and generally browner than what would be considered the norm for this area. This echoes the trend predicted by Cowen and Grier in their article.

In that time, football was something of a niche sport in our area. Western Pa. was over-represented on our Reston Youth League coaching staff. The commissioner hailed from Midland High School and was a friend and school mate of the late basketball star Norm Van Lier. Many of our coaches came from Farrell, Aliquippa and other Pittsburgh area locales. We competed with the likes of youth soccer and fall baseball for players, as well as overcoming the higher registration fees because of equipment costs.

Nonetheless, our teams at the time more faithfully reflected the population. It's not so much the case today.

Our area is a pretty good sports barometer. Opportunities and participation over a broad range of options is high, and we have had more of our share of successes. When my daughter and nieces attended South Lakes High their schoolmates and sporting contemporaries included the likes of NBA star Grant Hill and Olympic track star Alan Webb. Their situation was more common than unique as other areas schools produced Mia Hamm (soccer), Kara Larson (basketball), Evan Royster (football), Olympic caliber swimmers and plenty of high caliber athletes in less celebrated sports. So this change in the football participation pattern really got my attention.

It would be tempting, comforting really, to just dismiss this entire concussion business as just an off season tempest likely to blow over eventually with no significant long term impact on the game. It would be easy to believe, especially if you are under the age of 40, the stature and popularity of professional football is pretty much inviolate. But an examination of the longer historical arch of American sports suggests a different story and a much greater sense of vulnerability we ignore at our peril.

In the early to mid- 20th Century the top of the sporting food chain was occupied by baseball, boxing and horse racing. An interesting fact often overlooked by Steeler Nation today is that while the football team struggled competitively and financially in the early days, the Rooney Clan was quite successful with their operation of race tracks. Today, except for the minor blip in national attention associated with the Triple Crown races (Kentucky Derby, Preakness and Belmont Stakes) horse racing has pretty much disappeared. Most who have any memory of sports from the 1980s and earlier have witnessed the decline of boxing from a sport whose championship bouts galvanized the attention of the world to a descent into irrelevance. That descent began to escalate in the early 60s when a fighter named Emile Griffith literally beat an opponent to death on national television. The decline of baseball was less steep but it was clearly supplanted at the top by pro football by the beginning of what we now know as the Super Bowl era. Football's dominance has remained relatively unchallenged for the better part of 50 years.

Football has always been a difficult, potentially devastating sport to those who have played it. In many respects a far more dangerous sport played in earlier years than now.

So why should this particular issue prove to be so disruptive of the sport?

Part of the answer is contextual. The roots of professional football are in the region and culture of western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio (the Pro Football Hall of Fame isn't located in Canton for nothing). Even though the game was more dangerous in those early days, it paled in comparison with what many players and spectators faced in their day jobs working in the mines, mills and factories of the area. Over the intervening years, rule changes, improved technology and advanced medical techniques have seemingly offset many of its debilitating effects. When I played the game, a knee injury, if not a career ending event, usually signaled the onset of permanent decline for a player. One of the best examples of that was when the brilliant career of Gales Sayers was cut short by a knee injury.

Today the expectation for a player suffering a torn ACL, like Steelers RB Rashard Mendenhall, is he will fully recover within a year. However, medical science has no answer for head or spinal injuries (think Peyton Manning). Further, the research indicates that not only concussions, (which didn't rise to level of being much of an injury of serious concern in the old days) can be much more devastating than previously imagined, but the cumulative effect of blows that fall far below the level of concussions can have the same effect.

Put another way you don't have to have had your bell rung to be in danger of having a higher likelihood of suffering from memory loss, dementia, even ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease) as a result of playing football. As Cowen and Grier have pointed out, and most of us can logically imagine, the lawyers are lining up. All that is necessary is for a couple of successful lawsuits to set a precedent that will send insurance companies and sponsors into full scale flight.

(Editor's Note: In the time this article was being edited, the family of former Bears DB Dave Duerson, a man who committed suicide, announced a wrongful death lawsuit against the NFL)

This puts the whole James Harrison/Roger Goodell war in an entirely different light as well. I can't imagine a scenario where the NFL didn't know this issue was coming down the pike. The emphasis on player safety, hastily, even sloppily conceived and executed was designed to, hopefully, inoculate the league if just a little bit from the impact of the litigation that they are now facing. Harrison apparently didn't get the memo, and in any case has proven to be a very useful villain in relation to the more ‘reasonable' approach of league management. Of course, Harrison might intuitively understand what Cowen and Grier also pointed out; namely that the usual solutions probably will not do. Rule changes and improved technology (better helmets for example) probably will be an insufficient deterrent to the problems outlined. And there is nothing immediately on the horizon in the form of a medical science solution that will save the day either.

A couple of years ago I conducted an interview with former Steeler Randy Grossman for the MSP Steeler Annual. During the course of the discussion Grossman continually used terms referring to the game that more appropriately reflected how we would describe engaging in hard, unskilled labor rather than that of a sport. We eventually got around to talking about Myron Rolle (now with the Steelers) and shared a good laugh as we mused over the fact that he could be characterized in the football culture as being disloyal for choosing to pursue a Rhodes Scholarship. It fit Grossman's view that the game wanted their players dumb. We also touched a bit on the general sports landscape. He mentioned, and I agreed, how unlikely it would be to find a boxing gym located in the Fox Chapel community in which he resided. No snobbery involved, just the practical realization that most people would avoid the inherent risks involved in boxing if they had reasonable alternatives which most affluent and middle class folk have.

In the not so distant future will we come to view football like boxing, and how will that effect our engagement with the game?

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+7 and Rec'd for thoughtfulness and perspective...

…and once again, well written and thought provoking.

I have one boy in your county’s school system (Robinson), and 2 others in Prince William county schools. While football is popular, it competes tooth and nail for athletes with sports like soccer, basketball, lacrosse, etc; sports that in my youth in Pittsburgh, were exclusively played in the wealthier school districts, but with no where near the popularity of football. Football, at its grass roots, will always be a blue-collar sport, a means for achieving an education (or at least get into a college), a means for channeling any anger, frustration, from one’s home life into positive endeavors.

I too fear for the future of football and view the League’s pitiful attempts at enforcing H2H as publicity stunts to make it seem like its concern for players safety as a response to these concussion related law suits.

I call the Leagues actions “publicity stunts” because they’re meant to divert our attention away from more practicle solutions such as mandating the wearing of all pads (think Troy would be safer if his head struck a player’s thigh pad, instead of his chiseled thigh itself), mouth pieces, and the safest possible helments, regardless of who has the license to supply the NFL with headgear.

I characterize these attempts as “pitiful” because only selected positions are protected, and its not the positions that are at the most risk, just the most visible. It is the linemen who face the most risks, due to their exposure to hundreds of “mini-concussions” each and every season, for every year they play such a position, from Pop Warner, through college, and while they play in “the promised land” of the NFL.

The Irony of Ironies is that, should football be litigated into oblivion because of the successes of these myriad lawsuits, it will be because of the death of a player from a team that epitomizes the image of football as a violent, hard-hitting, brutal sport. I speak of Mike Webster, who’s death prompted a coroner to investigate its root causes, and whose findings lifted the curtain on this whole matter.

United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.

by PaVaSteeler on Feb 24, 2012 11:55 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

would no helmets fix the game?

i have heard this argument for a long time, that if you remove the helmets and facemasks, injuries would be much less.

i don’t know if i buy this – does anyone here believe that?

by fajita on Feb 24, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Good question

It would be worth comparing the rate of head injuries in sports, such as Rugby and Australian rules football.

by Greig Clawson on Feb 24, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

It'd probably make players less tempted to make big hits and contact

And backs would be more, I guess, reluctant on contact.

At the same time, you’d have to retool the OL, because those guys running into each other without helmets…..

She asked me who I wanted to have a three some with. I said "Why not Zoidberg?"

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Feb 24, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

I don’t even think you have to do away with the helmets. Just get rid of the facemask. As much as these guys are big bad athletes, I really don’t think they want to mess up their faces. Well, lineman, maybe…but tacklers and ball carriers aren’t going to be leading with their head once their nose gets blown up.

by pistil_stamen on Feb 25, 2012 1:17 AM EST up reply actions  

One of the easiest way to kill a man is with the palm of your hand....

….ram it upward against the tip of the nose, driving bone and cartilage into the brain. It is taught in self-defense lessons in the military.

Removing the face mask would lesson certain dangers, but this is one danger that would return. A short, violent hit is all that is necessary to kill.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Feb 25, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions  

This is false

and they do not teach this in military self-defense classes. I have taken many combatives courses in the military (it is required these days prior to and during deployments), and they are the ones that have told us at this is actually not even possible. A sharp upward strike from the palm of your hand to an opponents nose will surely subdue that opponent temporarily but it absolutely will not kill him.

That being said, no facemask on the helmets will result in nearly every NFL player sustaining multiple broken noses throughout his career. I think the if they have a helmet, then they must have a facemask as well.

"If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane" - Jimmy Buffett

by WVSteel6SB on Feb 27, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed. the riddell thing is absolutely ridiculous… corporate sponsorship > health of lesser known players

by klompus on Feb 25, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

30 years ago, there was no effective way to heal knee injuries. It was a serious problem, but eventually the medical field developed surgery and rehab to fix the problem.
I’m sure in 30 years we will look back at head injuries the same way.
The fact that this is a huge issue will necessitate developments in the medical field, in player’s equipment, and even (as we are starting to see already) rule changes to the game itself.
For every parent who won’t allow their child to play football because of the danger involved, there is certainly another child or ten ready to take his place.
This is a $9 BILLION a year industry (that’s just the NFL) and its not going away any time soon.

by jedmiller71 on Feb 24, 2012 12:02 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Knee and Brain Analogy? Not

I am no Dr., but brain cells do not generate – once they die, they die. Muscle tissue is something different which does regenerate.

by Hombre de Acero on Feb 24, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed, they are very different, didn’t mean to compare them that way…But I do believe that in 30 years technology will have found a solution for head injuries as well.
Obviously its just my thought and can’t be proven until it actually happens, but I do think it will.

by jedmiller71 on Feb 24, 2012 1:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

concussions at 180MPH

so did anyone see danica hit the wall yesterday? she hit it almost head on at prolly 180mph.

and she walked away with nary an injury.

so i’m wondering how drivers can hit walls at that speed and walkaway, while we have trouble protecting human beings running into each other…

yes, i understand haans devices and crumple zones and safety walls, but still, are we so stupid that we can safely crash at 180mph in 2ton machines but crumple at 50mph amid 200lb bodies??

as jedmiller71 says, there are a ton of ways to get hurt – anyone see any statistics on girls knees and soccer?

i think the problem is that the czar goodell promotes violence, and then gets squeamish at the violence this produces… he’s a fraking idiot and he needs a concussion himself!!

by fajita on Feb 24, 2012 12:43 PM EST reply actions  

Absorbing energy

The wall she hit is made of foam and craters on impact. The design of the car all the way around does the same thing. Look at the in car camera shots…look at the seat they are sitting in, and the wing that wraps around both sides of the helmet.n Their helmet is tethered as well (not sure how to explain it), which also factors in.

All things learned from numerous incidents, most notably Earnhardt dying. They don’t go from 180/200 to 0, not unless the do a full head-on into a non-giving barrier which are few if any on tracks now.

Does anyone remember that weird cap on the helmet of the Bills player when they were competitive, maybe it was steve tasker or somebody. Had a special helmet because of head/skull issue?

as the military evolves their helmets to absorb energy from explosions, you might get technology which can help, but my feeling is there is no perfect solution.

But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose

by Twell on Feb 24, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

It was Tasker

It was a padded strip along the middle of the helmet running front to back. That type of helmet was very common when I was playing high school ball in Pittsburgh during the mid to late 60s. I don’t know how effective they were.

by Ivan Cole (RickVa) on Feb 24, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

The great Kansas City middle linebacker Willie Lanier wore that type of helmet as well.

by Ivan Cole (RickVa) on Feb 24, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't it Don Beebe?

Following this hit:

Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH

by Flying Polamalus on Feb 24, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry - Technical error

http://williampennmanship.blogspot.com/2009/12/beebe-to-loan-westbrook-padded-helmet.html

Following this hit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu0ihzhCkkk

Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH

by Flying Polamalus on Feb 24, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right, that who I was thinking of

But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose

by Twell on Feb 24, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, I was so sure that one of those two also wore it, but I can’t find any information to support it. Obviously that picture is Kelso, but did Beebe also wear it?

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 25, 2012 1:40 AM EST up reply actions  

its weird, they both wore it, but when you google don beebe helmet you get only images of Kelso……Don Beebe’s helmet even has a facebook page

But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose

by Twell on Feb 25, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I found an interview with Bert Strauss who invented the procap, and he mentions Beebe and Steve Wallace (49ers)

But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose

by Twell on Feb 25, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I remember a guy on the 9ers wearing one. From what I’ve read, it reduced someone’s probability of another concussion from 60% to 3% or something like that.

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 25, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Football isn't going away, but many, many parents are pushing their kids to other sports....

….because they can get college scholarships for soccer, lacrosse, or whatever with a smaller risk of serious injury. And that risk of serious injury is pushing insurance premiums higher and putting a greater strain on high school and college football finances. I would imagine we will continue to see small yearly declines in the number of colleges fielding teams.

At the NFL level, the sport may be more dangerous today than ever, simply because the players are much bigger. The force that a 350 or 400 pounder can exert is enormous, and the strain that puts on a 400 pounder’s heart can be fatal. Korey Stringer was 409 pounds when he became overheated in practice, and his body wouldn’t allow him to cool down in time. Korey may have been 409 pounds, but his heart and internal organs were not built to function at that weight.

The NFL is staring down the tracks at a mortal threat coming its way. I don’t like it, it’s not nice to think about, but the tracks are starting to vibrate and there’s a light and a train whistle in the distance.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Feb 24, 2012 12:43 PM EST reply actions  

I can’t name one player in the NFL who is 400lbs+, but I understand your point.

"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."

by Riddlah. on Feb 24, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

If you trust the media guide, sure.

by Neal Coolong on Feb 24, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t, but I still can’t think of too many players who look close to 400lbs.

"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."

by Riddlah. on Feb 24, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

You don’t think Hampton looks over 400? How about Terrence Cody? The titties alone have to weigh about 150

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 24, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Cody's man-boobs

I doubt they are more than 10 lbs each. Grab a 10 lb bag of sugar. Are his man-boobs each larger than that bag of sugar? If not then they probably don’t weigh more than 10 lbs.

anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 24, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

ok, so I may have exaggerated a bit

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 24, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I don’t think Hampton looks over 400lbs. I’d put him between 350-365lbs.

"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."

by Riddlah. on Feb 24, 2012 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the NFL should of course do more to protect their current players on the field and not this bull crap of suspending James Harrison while letting hte Browns play their QB after getting a concussion. But what really worries me is all the people at high school and younger, and even some college palyers, who are playing the game.

I came from a small high school that had a pretty good football team. We went far in the playoffs and fielded some of the best teams that high school had seen in a while. Only 2 players got a scholarship to small colleges that will likely never give them a chance to even be seen by NFL scouts. And those two players getting htose scholarships is a really big deal in our town, its like winning the lottery. Meanwhile, everybody else was out there playing hard and exposing themselves to these dangerous injuries. I dont understand the point of playing the game when there is such a small chance for so many of it helping them in life.

I realize many players that do play feel they have a chance to get their college paid for, or even win big and play in the pros, but so many young people have very little chance of benefitting from such a dangerous sport and should really have nothing to do with it. Why is it we are talking about ways to make the game safer for those making millions to play it, yet I hear little about the people who are taking the same risks without the perks of playing professionally?

by steelerintexas on Feb 24, 2012 1:28 PM EST reply actions  

I to was living in Texas for a long time and watched a lot of FNL games (5A to 3A), and saw a ton of huge hits. It really hasn’t changed there too much. 10 years ago, it wasn’t uncommon for most players after getting a concussion to continue to play, even after taking a big shot like the one against McCoy. Was it a legal shot – thats all opinion, depending on what side of the stands you are on. Anyway, thats not really what we’re tallking about.

My 11 year old son is 5’6" already and is almost 180 (I’m 6’5" 280), and we’ve been approached by the junior high coach already (just moved to Vegas – sons in 5th grade). Wife is totally against it (I played from pop warner to college level – can’t run anymore, damaged knees to badly) and I’m having second thoughts about a game thats a huge part of my and my families make up. I believe that better padding and helmet technology needs to be brought into the NFL this season and to all levels of the game ASAP. I would love to have my son knock the crap out of other kids and get his aggression out in the right setting, but if it’s got the potenial to mess him up for life, I cannot in good conscious allow that to happen. And that sucks, because I totally love the game.

A bargain is something you don't need at a price you can't resist....
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong!
My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch!
Once you start agreeing with TDSH, you know that you're wrong.

by J. W. on Feb 24, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

High school football is sad IMO. I am a recent High School gruaduate and I agree it hasnt changed much. I think the saddest part of it all is how much the coaches, and even parents to some extent, could care less about those violent hits. I understand that many parents are unknowing of how much the game can hurt a person in the long run, but coaches should be looking out for the safety of these students that are playing their heart out. I have not seen any studies about the effects of just high school and younger football alone on a kid but I remember recieving some very nasty hits that made me feel not so well and the coaches just throwing me back in telling me to suck it up. They did this to everyone who got hit hard. I am sure there are many coaches that do care about the safety of the students, but there are a lot who do not.

Anyways, good luck to you and your kid and I hope whatever decision you make will be the right one. A lot of good can come from the game, but a lot of bad also. I am sure as a parent educated about the risks your child is in good hands regardless of whether he plays or not.

by steelerintexas on Feb 25, 2012 1:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Problem is Serious + NFL is not + Suggested Solutions

This is a serious problem. I am just old enough to remember Muhammad Ali’s final title reign, back when boxing meant something.

The sight of Ali in the 80’s, barely able to speak as much as anything else, sent boxing on its downward spin.

This is a serious problem. It is serious because of the danger to players, it is serious because of the legal implications, and it is serious because of the perceptions it creates.

Unfortunately, the NFL is only worried about the issue as a PR issue as opposed to a real issue, or otherwise they would have punished the Browns for knowingly putting Colt McCoy back into the game. And Roger Goodell would be talking with the NFLPA about the possibility of reducing the regular season to 14 games instead of this 18 game insanity.

There are three things the NFL could do to begin addressing the problem:
- Go back to old style helmets. Yes, that’s right. Go back to the helmet technology they used in the 70’s. As someone on BTSC pointed out in a response to a similar post, improvements in helmet technology in the 80’s did protect the head more, but had the opposite effect, it allowed players to use it as a projectile.
- Widen and lengthen the fields – This was a favorite of Washington’s sport’s radio guru Ken Beatrice. Little chance of it happening but such a move would put the emphasis on smaller and lighter as opposed to bigger and stronger.
- Phase in weight limits – Again, this is a serious suggestion. A HUGE part of the problem is that the players of 2012 are much bigger, faster, heavier than was dreamed of even as recently as the 80’s. Chuck Noll had 220 pound offensive line man playing for him…. This one is about simple physics. The force generated by a hit from a 250 pound linebacker running 4.4 in the 40 is greater than the force generated by a hit from a 225 pound linebacker running a 4.45 in the 40…. It could start with a maximum limit over all, with specific weight limits getting gradually phased in for other position areas. Heck, the league could even toy around with granfathering in veterans.

Finally, Gene Collier of the Post-Gazette has talked with experts about this and floated the idea of reducing the amount of head trauma by asking lineman to line up in 2 instead of 3 point stances. I am not sure how feasible this is given how much this would change the nature of line play, but I will throw it out there for discussion.

by Hombre de Acero on Feb 24, 2012 1:42 PM EST reply actions  

Not only did Noll play 220 pound lineman...

But he was a rather undesized lineman himself for the Browns. Difficult to imagine anyone his size playing in the league today.

by Ivan Cole (RickVa) on Feb 24, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

No doubt

There are wrs and corners that are about that size in the nfl now, and definatly Tight ends

keiselsbeard

by rainman d on Feb 24, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

reality

As a former player and a father of two sons who played football; I understand and always understood the inherent risks of the sports. The fact that young men have and will always play football speaks to the reality of it. There is only so much that can be done concerning the safety of the players; inherently it is a violent sport where men throw themselves towards each other. I attended a coaching clinic in the 90"s where Lou Holtz and Barry Switzer were the guest speakers; Holtz said what I consider the profound truth about football; “Football is a violent sport played by unruly and aggressive young men, it is in many cases the closest that our youngsters will get to battle, so it produces a very martial attitude amongst its players. This sport in many cases keeps these young men out of serious trouble and gives them an outlet to focus on.” Players know going in that they can get hurt; it doesnt matter, anyone who ever played has dealt with this and will continue to. The only real solution would be to have players agree to sign a waiver stating that they were aware of the risks and decided to play regardless. But the idea that there is a solution is amiss; you cant take the violence out of the sport without changing the sport; it is what it is.Same as boxing; it is what it is.

by wmd3 on Feb 24, 2012 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

'Twas ever thus....

James Wright was born in a river town just down the Ohio….he won a Pulitzer Prize in Literature….and is immortalized for “Autumn Begins in Martins Ferry, Ohio.” I first saw this poem at the Smithsonian Museum of American History, right next to Lou Groza’s kicking shoe. Lou the Toe came from one of those Ohio River towns…

Wright’s poetry captures Friday nights in the places where most Steeler fans grew up, and it captures – in many ways – the soul of the sport we love….

In the Shreve High football stadium,
I think of Polacks nursing long beers in Tiltonsville,
And gray faces of Negroes in the blast furnace at Benwood,
And the ruptured night watchman of Wheeling Steel,
Dreaming of heroes.

All the proud fathers are ashamed to go home.
Their women cluck like starved pullets,
Dying for love.

Therefore,
Their sons grow suicidally beautiful
At the beginning of October,
And gallop terribly against each other’s bodies.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Feb 24, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

wow, James Wright is from the valley? Did not know that.

I grew up near Steubenville, Toronto, Weirton areas. The violence in football starts as young as 6. The neighborhood kids would target certain kids and relentlessly force them to accept hand offs and smash em. My nose stopped looking like a nose way before HS. The Herald Star front page was always about HS football in the late summer/early fall.

by SteelersVT on Feb 25, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Not only was James Wright from Martins Ferry.....

…so was Lou Groza (which explains why his shoe was next to Wright’s poem at the Smithsonian). And so was John (Hondo) Havlicek. And Pittsburgh’s favorite TV weatherman, Joe DiNardo. A lot of good and hardworking people hail from those tough river towns.

The town is directly across the river from Wheeling, and only 38 miles from Pittsburgh, it only seems a million miles away. The last time I was in that neck of the woods was 1978, covering a UMW strike. They sent me to a place called Dilles Bottom, Ohio, where some union local had a midnight vote on a contract proposal. My assignment editor said with a name like that, the town had to be the asshole of the world. When I got back, I would only reply that the union folk were nice, but the town was not in my vacation plans.

I did ask how the hell the town got a name like that, and was told it was “bottom land,”
a low-lying area near the river in what is otherwise a hilly or mountainous area. And the Dille family (pronounced Dilly) were among the original settlers. So, unfortunately, the town was not named after the rear end of an exotic dancer.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Feb 26, 2012 3:02 AM EST up reply actions  

football and teens

We tried to get our son interested in soccer, volleyball, basketball, curling and a few other sports. The only thing he liked/loved was football. I don’t think he will be large enough to play in university so the long term effects likely will not matter. Maybe he will get into biathlon or something after his football career ends though I think he will miss the strategy aspects of football.

anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 24, 2012 4:09 PM EST reply actions  

COSF: I assume he plays the Canadian version of the game, with a bigger field...

Do you believe Canadian football, with the bigger field, fewer downs, and less emphasis on the running game, is less dangerous than the version we play here in the US? It seems like Canadian football favors speed and quickness over extreme size and power. Are there any injury studies or anything like that.

Also, you could always transition the lad from football to the winter biathalon. It would be fun to see him take the field in November in full pads, on skis, and carrying a rifle. That would make for an awesome defensive back.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Feb 24, 2012 4:42 PM EST reply actions  

He does play Canadian rules

but he has already had a mild concussion (last summer). Athletes are athletes and though the coaching isn’t to the same level the kids still hit as hard as they can.

Even though passing is more prevalent at the pro level, the running game is still big at high school and university level. The number of downs is mostly irrelevant since that just means more special teams play which still means high speed hits (there is no fair catch in Canadian football though there is the 5 yard rule.

I will likely push curling/golf over biathlon if only because they are more social sports and I think he needs to spend more time socializing.

anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 24, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks. Hadn't thought of the increase in special teams play in the CFL....

…but I do live the “yards” penalty.

Can you imagine what Antonio Brown could do on punt returns with the rules enforcing a five yard halo around him at the time of the catch – and no fair catches? Wow!

Homer can understand Canadians love of donuts (is there anything they can’t do?), and even poutine. But Homer simply cannot figure out curling. I guess it’s social, because if you were out there on the ice with that ridiculous broom, you might want to buy a cold, delicious Duff Beer, and perhaps buy a round for your whole team. It’s enough to drive most anyone to drink.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Feb 24, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Curling

It is far more fun to participate than to watch though once you understand strategies and ice conditions (it can be a thinking man’s game) then you might appreciate it as a spectator sport. For most Canadians it is the winter equivalent of slo-pitch. A little exercise and then beers and conversation afterwards. At the national championships the most popular venue (other than actually watching or participating) is usually the beer garden (or what ever they wish to call it).

anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 24, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Slo-pitch and beer. Curling and beer. Homer understands, now.

Maybe we could get together a curling team down at Moe’s.

Alcohol: the cause of and solution to all problems. Homer could enjoy a cold one right now.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Feb 24, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

curling has mixed teams

so curling, beer and hubba hubba

anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 24, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I Enjoyed....

…mixed teams neighborhood football games – ; )

United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.

by PaVaSteeler on Feb 25, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Touch football can be really fun that way.....

….letting those curvy receivers catch the ball, and then you have to touch them as part of the game. Much more fun that mixed team slo-pitch softball, where you have to wait until the game is over before you can get frisky.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Feb 26, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Just about every sport I play now is mixed. There isn't a better way to go.

Of course, now that I have a girlfriend, it takes half the fun out of playing flag football.

by Anthony Defeo on Feb 26, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I actually kind of like the CFL version. You get a ton of passing plays there and It’s awesome to see a 50 yard pass completion.

A bargain is something you don't need at a price you can't resist....
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong!
My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch!
Once you start agreeing with TDSH, you know that you're wrong.

by J. W. on Feb 24, 2012 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

One thing I've noticed, over the past 13 years

…is how much the CFL has become the refuge of the ‘tweener. Doesn’t mean that it’s less dangerous, but you scarcely see 340 lbs OL, 320 lbs DT, 290 DE, 270 LBs, 220 S, etc. You’ re much likelier to see relatively nimble 310 OL, 280 DT, 260 DE, 220 LB, 190 S, etc.

I’d be curious to see a comparison of size-speed ratio on violence of hit: which of the 2 components is more important. If it’s speed, then the CFL would theoretically be more dangerous.

One thing is certain: my buddies and I are more likely to shout 3 or 4 “jacked up!” per CFL game than watching an NFL game.

Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH

by Flying Polamalus on Feb 25, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Jacked Up hits

I wonder if the difference in talent between different players in the CFL is greater than in the NFL as I would think that greater differences in skill levels will lead to nastier collisions when a better trained, more athletic player comes into contact with someone who is less skilled, less athletic player.

anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 25, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't want to go there, but...

it used to be a concern of mine with the non-import (read Canadian) quotas. However, you now find higher quality Canadian players who have carved-out niches (for instance, Montreal and its all-Canadian OL) who can compete with, and more than often beat, marginal US talent.

I still do see however greater discrepancies once in a while than I see in the NFL. Having a season ticket for thirteen years in Montreal has led me to temper my expectations upon finding out a player is non-import, when he does not perform up to what I’m expecting on Sundays from a colleague in the NFL.

When all is said and done, however, the slightly lower quality of product (I go to one NFL game a year) combined with a 40% (you read right, forty percent) hike in the cost of the same seat has led me to drop my ticket this year. I’ll still travel to a game once or twice (I live 120 miles away after all) a year, but they’ve lost this fan, at least in person.

Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH

by Flying Polamalus on Feb 25, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Bomber games

I may not get to any Bomber games next year even though they are, eventually, playing in a bigger stadium that is closer to home because the demand for tickets has become a bit crazy and the new stadium will not have anything like enough parking. It will be a one hour walk each way which may be faster than trying to find parking spot near the U of M then fighting traffic through streets that are not meant to deal with 10s of thousands of vehicles at once. On the plus side, all the season tickets being pre-sold means there shouldn’t be any blackouts.

There is talk of building a new pedestrian bridge over the Red River to link St Vital with the U of M. Depending where it is situated, it may improve things from my point of view.

anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked

by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 25, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Geez, sounds a lot like McGill stadium, when they came back to it in 1998

You know the story, right? U2 was playing the Olympic Stadium, bumping the Als, which had to play old, decrepit McGill Stadium (a tree was growing in the concrete stands!). The rest is history…including crazy demand, not enough parking, an hour’s walk, etc. Until the FO started taking everything for granted, and was busted by media artificially inflating crowds in order to get subsidies for expansion from government.

Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH

by Flying Polamalus on Feb 27, 2012 8:26 AM EST up reply actions  

What's up with this banner ad

That keeps asking if I want Steelers updates sent to my email address?
How many times do you have to click: never show me this again", to actually never see it again?
If I enter a bogus email address, will it finally go away?
Any info will be appreciated!

"They timed it perfectly, they just went too soon." - Darrell Waltrip commenting on an illegal restart.

by alfresco on Feb 24, 2012 4:54 PM EST reply actions  

They’re just curious if you changed your mind. I mean, “never show me this again” is an awfully large commitment.

by Neal Coolong on Feb 24, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I probably just closed it 50 to 70 times, before clicking “more info”.
So it’s on to step 2, the bogus email address. Think Bean would mind if I used his email address…

"They timed it perfectly, they just went too soon." - Darrell Waltrip commenting on an illegal restart.

by alfresco on Feb 24, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like your browset isnt caching right

You should only see it once per SBN site you visit, and should be once per browser. . Perhaps you are switching browsers or clearing out your recent history (use ‘private browsing’ instead of outright cache purges if history or marriage is catching up to you :)

by SteelersVT on Feb 25, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

hahaha, his mother is reading this….

by klompus on Feb 25, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

So if I delete my sbnation cookie, so it will be recreated at my next visit, will I lose anything profile related?

"They timed it perfectly, they just went too soon." - Darrell Waltrip commenting on an illegal restart.

by alfresco on Feb 26, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Switch to Google Chrome...

…and activate adblocker – that should take care of it.

United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.

by PaVaSteeler on Feb 25, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Speaking mainly of pro football

I think the huge salaries these guys get paid has also had an impact. The fact is, most of the guys out there playing pro ball on Sundays are millionaires. When people have this kind of money, they aren’t nearly as willing to sacrifice their long-term health as the old-time players who were playing ball to survive.

Sure, if enough lawyers jump in there, they could easily ruin the sport. But I’d say the big money being raked in by both players and owners is having just as corrosive an effect on the game as the physical risks. And I know more than a few people who have stopped watching pro sports entirely because a lot of the fun has already been squeezed out by the pursuit of the almighty buck.

by Billy52 on Feb 25, 2012 12:41 AM EST reply actions  

When people have this kind of money, they aren’t nearly as willing to sacrifice their long-term health as the old-time players who were playing ball to survive.

You know, I’ve heard you say this stuff before, but you simply have no proof of this. You have no idea how motivated players are. Sure, some take the money and phone it in, but that’s a small percentage. Others are extremely motivated by things like honor, respect, pride, proving something to someone, peer pressure from other great athletes, their families and friends that they support, or any host of other factors. Just because you feel like everything was so different back in the good old days doesn’t mean it was. Those “old time” players went out drinking, took horrible care of their bodies, and did these things without a care about how it affects their team, and the teams fans. Football players don’t even get “huge” salaries. You want huge salaries, go look at the ridiculousness going on in baseball. And how they can even afford it is beyond me. All but two stadiums in the league ever have more than 1/3rd capacity. And still, a guy that is projected as a fifth starter, who went 6-8 last year with a 5.47 Era, will be making 48 million over four years. And NFL players contracts, with their guaranteed 8 million for their entire career (if they are a running back) is what’s ruining the sport? You one of those people that would prefer the rich owners keep all the money, while the players who bring in the money beg for handouts?

Unless you’ve experienced that side

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 25, 2012 12:48 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

yeah, I really woudl like to see the line of demarcation as far as "millionaire players" goes

I would wager that the true millionaires are a faint 30% or less. Probably even as low as 20% 5 years after being out of the sport and if they start goofy burger chains with their cousin Jed.

by SteelersVT on Feb 25, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Thank You Ivan

Great article & Rec.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Feb 25, 2012 9:26 AM EST reply actions  

Great article, and anytime I hear or read about these stories, it's very sobering, to say the least.

What I would like to know is why certain players have these kinds of issues later in life while others do not.

Why did TE John Mackey suffer from dementia in his later years, but TE Mike Ditka is still going strong as a studio analyst on ESPN?

Why isn’t Dermontti Dawson suffering from the same problems at this stage of his life that Mike Webster did?

Why does Paul Martha have the issues he has while a contemporary of his, Dick Lebeau, is still in the NFL and one of its brightest and most innovative minds?

Does it come down to poor technique? After the concussion problem really got traction two seasons ago, I remember seeing an interview with Merril Hoge where he was prettty adamant about teaching young kids the proper techniques, and if you do that, it might alleviate a lot of these problems.

Is it the equipment? I don’t know if this is true or not, but I’ve heard it said a time or two that OJ Simpson was really self-conscious about the size of his head and played without padding in his helmet because he thought it made his head look even bigger.

I know for a fact he never played with thigh pads because he actually said that, so maybe there is something to the helmet story.

I hope this doesn’t ultimately ruin the game of football, but I’m sure back in the 1950’s, nobody could have envisioned that baseball and boxing would fall so far in popularity, either.

by Anthony Defeo on Feb 25, 2012 8:45 PM EST reply actions  


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