Five Burning Questions: Free Agency Edition
by Hombre de Acero on Feb 25, 2012 4:00 PM EST
in Five Burning Questions
Email
Print
Free Agency is still a few weeks away, but there's plenty of fuel to fire our 5 Burning Questions: Free Agency edition.
1. Steelers Nation no longer has Bruce Arians to kick around. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with his dismissal, do you think the way it was handled, with Rooney II over ruling Tomlin and the team attempting to pass it off as a "retirement," tarnishes the concept of "The Steelers Way?"
2. The range of differing opinions over the underlying wisdom behind Todd Haley's hire is as wide as the parting of the Red Sea. Do you agree or disagree that Todd Haley is the man to lead the Steelers offense?
3. Given the age of James Farrior, Larry Foote, and James Harrison, the arrested development of Lawrence Timmons, and what we've seen of Stevenson Sylvester and Jason Worilds how high of a priority should linebacker be for the Steelers?
4. Massive free agent defections are no longer a staple of Steelers off seasons as they once were in the 1990's, still its rare when you can keep everyone you want. If you had to pick one Steelers free agent, other than Rod Woodson, that you wish hadn't gotten away, who would that be?
5. The Steelers are renegotiating contracts with players they signed to long-term deals with reckless abandon. Are you concerned that they might be setting themselves up for a Salary Cap disaster?
There you go, have at it folks!
85 comments
|
Add comment
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
#3
I think Inside linebacker would be the only high priority. Inside lb is probably the 3rd biggest need of the Steelers, and I would think about going into the draft for an inside linebacke, not in free agency.
Quick 5...
1.Fine with Rooney over rule, got caght a little with the retirement thing. Should have just not said anything.
2. I’m willing to give him a shot. If redzone improves, he’s done the job he was brought in for.
3. Yes. Donahoe used to be one who said you could never draft enough linebackers in the 3-4.
4. Not sure if it was free agency or not- but I always wished we had held on to Hardy Nickerson.
5. No. I believe it is a calculated risk based on the expected cap increase in 2014. Success in life is often about risk, and furthermore the front office has proved itself worthy of the benefit of the doubt.
1) no
2) neither
3) ILB should be a priority in the draft but not the #1 priority (which isn’t saying that if the BPA is an ILB at 24 we shouldn’t take him).
4) too far back to worry about today
5)I think we may pay for this in the future but hopefully we will have another ring to show for it. It will probably mean a year or two of rebuilding vs reloading at some point but I don’t view it as a long term disaster that some seem to worry about.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 25, 2012 4:27 PM EST reply actions
Thoughts
- - No. I think the Steelers are still doing things the same way. The coverage of the happenings on the south side by local and national media types effected people’s perception of how things went down. I think Arians actually said he was going to retire when the Steelers said they weren’t renewing his contract. Heck he talked about it the last two off seasons. Regardless of how we got here, I think Haley will be fine. We are adding one personality into an established organization. I don’t think he will change the culture. I think he will be encouraged to go along with everyone else behavior wise.
- - I guess I overlapped this answer with answer #1. I think the Haley hire is the best fit given the available candidates. Pardon my muddled answer for these two, but the whole situation is more complicated than I can express appropriately.
- - I wouldn’t disagree with a talented ILB being selected first then moving on to fill our G needs. Tackle is just thin this year. I would rather not reach for one. We may have to wait until next year to get a good tackle to pair with Gilbert.
- - Leon Searcy. He was just going into his prime, and he went on to have a lot of great years with the Jags. Of course there is probably someone else I can’t remember, but he is the first one who came to mind.
- - Not really. The cap will go up in 2014, and that will probably bail us out. The FO did make a mistake in the uncapped year with the way those contracts were setup but nothing we can do now. I am scared, but I will trust in Colbert and company to figure it out.
hhhheaaattttthhhhh!
"You have to under promise and over deliver." Mike Tomlin
Searcy
Yeah…I agree with that one. Good call…
Answers
1. I have no problem with the way that went down. Arians had to go, Tomlin seemed too loyal.
2. Slightly concerned with his personality, but I like the signing. He rejuvenated Kurt Warner in AZ then built the league-leading rushing attack in KC. This should become a good balanced offense that uses all of its weapons.
3. Right after O-line and NT.
4. Kendrell Bell, if he could shake the injury bug and reach his potential.
5. I think they have run into trouble with keeping all of these franchise type players, but will avoid a cap disaster until the big cap increase.
his physical abilities were unreal. he was too mentally slow to pick up the game. Look how quickly his career was over after he left and had to learn a new system. Same as Willie Parker.
by Didyagetstung on Feb 26, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
injuries
Kendrell was rookie of the year…he wasn’t mentally slow. In both his and Parker’s case, it was injuries that took them down.
Good questions
1. – We as fans never hear or see the whole ins and outs. But tarnish the “Steeler Way”, I would say no. Atleast in the eyes of Steeler Nation.
2. – Agree, Haley will make the Redzone-O better.
3. – Would like them to draft both inside and outside. Carter never was healthy enough to get playing time. Worilds didn’t play all that bad but shouldn’t feel he has the back up spot sown up. ILB has to be addressed, not just for age but an increase in talent.
4. – Alan Faneca
5. – Don’t see how but I’m just a humble warehouse employee. They get paid the big bucks to make it work. GO STEELERS!!!!!!
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
Go Steelers!!!! Whooooot!
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
by Fifty-Eight on Feb 25, 2012 5:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Oh, wait! I forgot the questions....;)
Faneca has to be one, but my affect was Franco. A Seahawk?
I think LB will be an area addressed for sure. It’s wide open, which is interesting… 1st round, 2nd, you name it. Fun times…
At work, gotta get back or I’d go for the other ???’s. Good stuff, Hombre
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
Mountainbiking the Continental Divide in 2012 to raise awareness of human trafficking.
by Fifty-Eight on Feb 25, 2012 5:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
slacker
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
by Pittsblitz56 on Feb 25, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Answers
1. I think the Steelers way is for the Rooneys to get involved only when they feel strongly that something may be being overlooked by the coaching staff, and this was potentially the case here. I have a man-crush like no other on Mike Tomlin, but I think his judgment may have been a little clouded when it comes to Arians, and he needed someone else to make the difficult decision for him (which is rare).
2. Todd Haley, in my opinon, is a polarizing figure, which means that this could go either of two directions. If the players accept his style of confrontational coaching and his intensity, they’ll do fine. Ben, however, has always verbailized his desire to have someone “just talk to me like a man”, so I don’t know how that relationship is going to pan out, frankly. I do like that Haley seems to be able ot adjust his style to the strengths of the team, and that could proove valuable in the long run.
3. I agree that ILB is up there in priority, I just don’t think we’re looking at top priority here. If we have solid ILBs (TImmons, Foote for another couple years, Sylvester), and beasts on the outside, we’ll do fine. We have GOT to find a way to protect Ben better, and that starts in the offensive trenches for me.
4. Mike Vrabel for me, Smart player, very versatile, proved his worth in NE for many years after he left the ‘Burgh.
5. I agree with the previous response that they are handling things with an acceptable amount of sensible risk, knowing the cap should escalate significantly in two years’ time. The Steelers have never been accused of frivolous spending, for good reason, and I think they continue to know just what they’re doing, which benefits Steeler Nation citizens everywhere….
by WestCoastSteel on Feb 25, 2012 5:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
4. Chad Brown
Believe he would have been perrenial pro bowl in our system. Plus the dude had a killer snake business.
Stay thirsty my friends.
by SteelerMessican on Feb 25, 2012 6:12 PM EST reply actions
he is one for me
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Feb 26, 2012 8:03 AM EST up reply actions
he had a good career after Pgh, but he would have been a freak in our system
by Didyagetstung on Feb 26, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
#1 A tempest in a media teapot
- Wait and see. I’m more optimistic than when I first heard of it.
3. We should pick up one or two through draft and UDFA. Don’t know whether it should be highest priority.
4. I agree with Vrabel, but Nickerson is another.
5. As long as you have Ben at qb, you want to field the most competitive team possible. Keep as many of the good players as you can. Rebuild after he’s gone. Also, with the additions in ownership the past few years the team’s pockets are a bit deeper than in past years; therefore they can apparently afford to dish out the signing bonuses necessary for the restructurings. Shouldn’t be a surprise given that one of your owners is producing Batman movies.
by Ivan Cole (RickVa) on Feb 25, 2012 6:33 PM EST reply actions
5
Interesting. I’m guessing that has everything to do with there being a clip from Heinz Field in this summer’s release…
"I think the beard will decide when the time is right to come back. It will know when the time is right and all of a sudden appear." -The Deisel
by count'em_six on Feb 25, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
FIVE BURNING FREE AGENCY AND POLICY DECISIONS MADE BY THE STEELERS.
FIRST OF ALL THE FIRING OF BRUCE ARIANS WAS NOT HANDLED IN THE TRADITIONAL STEELER MANNER OF “BUSINESS”… HOWEVER, THE HIRING OF TODD HALEY IS A PLUS FOR THIS ORGANIZATION.
EIGHT DAYS AGO “AMBASSADOR” ROONEY TOOK A SHORT SABBATICAL FROM HIS POST IN IRELAND AND RETURNED TO THE STEELERS TEAM COMPLEX FOR THREE SIX-HOUR SESSIONS OF TALKS WITH “THE NEW REGIME” IN THE FRONT OFFICE (I HAVE A COUSIN WHO HAS BEEN A PART OF THE STEELERS ORGANIZATION FOR 22 YEARS, THE LAST EIGHT SPENT IN THE “FRONT OFFICE”). I WAS TOLD THAT THE MAIN SUBJECT OF THESE TALKS WAS TO RE-ESTABLISH THE “STEELER TRADITION AND CHARACTER” AS AN ORGANIZATION… SO FAR, SO GOOD, AS THE (SLIGHTLY) “LISTING” SHIP SEEMS TO BE “RIGHTING” ITSELF.
SECONDLY, LINEBACKERS JAMES FARRIOR (@ AGE 37 AND COUNTING AGAINST THE SALARY-CAP TO THE TUNE OF $6.375 MILLION DOLLAR$, & LARRY FOOTE (@ AGE 33 AND COUNTING FOR $3.225 MILLION AGAINST THE SALARY CAP), WILL BE RELEASED. THE STEELERS ARE “TARGETING” ALABAMA INSIDE LINEBACKER DONT’A HIGHTOWER WITH THEIR FIRST-ROUND SELECTION (#24). THEY ARE ALSO TARGETING, IN THE FREE AGENT MARKET, CORNERBACK CORTLAND FINNEGAN OF THE TENNESSEE TITANS, AND NEW ORLEANS SAINTS ALL-PRO GUARD CARL NICKS. THEY HAVE PUT TOGETHER A FOUR-YEAR $36 MILLION DOLLAR OFFER FOR NICKS, THAT THEY INTEND TO PRESENT TO HIM @ HIS LOUISIANA HOME THIS WEEK. THE CONTRACT BREAKS DOWN TO $16 MILLION IN “SIGNING BONUS”, AND $5 MILLION DOLLAR$ PER YEAR IN BASE SALARY. THEY ARE VERY “HIGH” ON NICKS AS HE IS A PROVEN COMMODITY, HAVING ALLOWED O-N-L-Y TWO SACKS OF QUARTERBACK DREW BREES OVER THE LAST THREE SEASONS! “BIG-BEN” HAS BEEN ON HIS “BACKSIDE” AN OUTLANDISH 135 TIMES OVER THE SAME SPAN, AND HAS BEEN SACKED MORE TIMES THAN ANY OTHER “STARTING” QUARTERBACK IN THE N.F.L. SINCE 2007!! A TREND THAT THE STEELERS BELIEVE NICKS CAN REVERSE. HE IS A “ROAD GRADER” AS A RUN BLOCKER (IN THE MOLD OF ALAN FANECA), AND HIS PASS PROTECTION SKILLS ARE “TOP SHELF!!”. ALL OF THESE SALARY CAP “MOVES” ARE SHORT-TERM SOLUTIONS TO LONG-TERM ISSUES. BUT IN THIS AGE OF THE “SALARY CAP” WE HAD NO CHOICE (@ $29 MILLION DOLLARS OVER THE CAP BEFORE THESE MOVES) OTHER THAN TO MAKE THESE DEALS. THE INSTALLATION OF THE NEW, “MORE BALANCED” OFFENSIVE ATTACK WILL BE THE MOST DIFFICULT THING FOR TODD HALEY TO INSTALL. AS RUNNING BACK RASHARD MENDENHALL WILL BE PLACED ON THE (P-U-P) PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO PERFORM LIST FOR THE ENTIRE 2012 SEASON, HORRIBLE “TIMING” FOR MENDENHALL, AS THIS IS HIS “CONTRACT” YEAR, AND BEING “ON THE SHELF” ALL SEASON, IS NOT GOING TO HELP HIS CAUSE TO RECEIVE A NEW LONG0TERM DEAL FROM THE STEELERS. ALL THE STEELERS HAVE AS VETERANS @ THE RUNNING BACK POSITION ARE ISAAC REDMAN, AND JOHN CLAY. AND CLAY IS STILL YET TO PROVE ANYTHING, AFTER “SPOT” DUTY LAST SEASON. THE STEELERS MAY “HAVE” TO BRING IN ANOTHER VETERAN RUNNING BACK THROUGH FREE-AGENCY THIS OFF-SEASON, AND THAT WOULD THROW A GIANT “WRENCH” INTO ALL OF THEIR OFF-SEASON PLANS.
I DO THINK THAT @ THIS POINT I SHOULD ADDRESS THE SUBJECT OF WIDE RECEIVER MIKE WALLACE… THERE IS “RAMPANT SPECULATION” THAT MIKE WALLACE WILL BE LEAVING THE STEELERS. HOWEVER, LET ME MAKE YOU AWARE OF A COUPLE OF POINTS FIRST, BEFORE YOU “GRAB YOUR CHESTS” IN SHOCK OVER THIS POSSIBILITY.
FIRST OF ALL, THE STEELERS HAVE PUT TOGETHER A DEAL SIMILAR IN NATURE AND NUMBERS TO THAT OF THE OFFER FOR NEW ORLEANS ALL-PRO GUARD CARL NICKS. IT IS REPORTED TO BE A FOUR-YEAR, $34.8 MILLION DOLLAR DEAL. THE CONTRACT WOULD BE STRUCTURED IN MUCH THE SAME MANNER AS THAT OF THE CARL NICKS DEAL. $14.8 MILLION DOLLAR$ WOULD BE A “SIGNING BONUS”, AND WALLACE WOULD ALSO COUNT AS O-N-L-Y $5 MILLION DOLLAR$ AGAINST THE SALARY-CAP OVER THE NEXT FOUR SEASONS! ANOTHER "B-A-R-G-A-I-N’ – NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK @ IT!!
IF THEY DECIDE TO DEAL MIKE WALLACE THE STEELERS WILL RECEIVE ANOTHER FIRST-ROUND SELECTION IN THE 2012 DRAFT. THE MOST LIKELY CANDIDATE TO APPROACH THE STEELERS ABOUT THE SERVICES OF MIKE WALLACE IS THE CINCINNATI “BEN-GALS”, @ &60+ MILLION DOLLARS UNDER THE SALARY CAP, THEY HAVE THE MOST MONEY TO THROW AROUND IN THE FREE-AGENCY MARKET! IF THE “BEN-GALS” DO APPROACH THE STEELERS, THE COMPENSATION PRICE WILL BE HIGH! THE STEELERS ARE PREPARED TO DEMAND THE FIRST OF THE “BEN-GALS” TWO FIRST ROUND SELECTIONS, THE (#17) SELECTION THAT THEY RECEIVED FROM THE OAKLAND RAIDERS FOR “DISGRUNTLED” QUARTERBACK CARSON PALMER. IF THE “BEN-GALS” BALK @ THAT IDEA, THEN THE STEELERS WILL TAKE THEIR SECOND FIRST-ROUND SELECTION (#21), AND A THIRD ROUND SELECTION (#63) WHICH THEY ATTAINED IN THE TRADE OF (ALSO DISGRUNTLED) WIDE RECEIVER CHAD “OCHO-CINCO” JOHNSON TO THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS LAST SEASON. (SIDE NOTE: JOHNSON QUICKLY SHOWED THE PATRIOTS HIS INABILITY TO ABSORB A NEW OFFENSIVE SYSTEM, AND THE HE HAS “NO GAS LEFT IN THE TANK!” – HE WILL BE RELEASED “OUTRIGHT” BY THE PATRIOTS BEFORE THE START OF TRAINING CAMP IN JULY… ALSO, REMEMBER A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN HE SAT ON THE CINCINNATI SIDELINE DONNING THAT “FAKE” YELLOW HALL OF FAME JACKET, EMBLAZENED WITH THE WORDS “H.O.F. 20??” ON THE BACK?? WHAT A JOKE THAT HAS TURNED OUT TO BE. IF HE E-V-E-R GETS INTO THE HALL OF FAME FOR ENSHRINEMENT, IT WILL BE A “TRAVESTY”…)
ALSO, THE “TRUTH” BEHIND THE HINES WARD SAGA IN PITTSBURGH IS THE FACT THAT HINES WAS ISSUED A D.U.I. CITATION IN LATE SEPTEMBER OF 2011, AND DESPITE IT RECENTLY BEING THROWN OUT, AND HIS HAVING TO PLEA TO RECKLESS OPERATION, THE STEELERS WERE TRYING TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM THEIR ALL-TIME LEADING RECEIVER DUE TO THE “LEGAL” ISSUE HANGING OVER HIM. HINES WARD HAS OFFERED A SALARY REDUCTION FROM $4 MILLION DOLLARS TO $1.325 MILLION DOLLARS FOR THIS SEASON. A TRUE BARGAIN BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION! I THINK HE WILL BE RETAINED IN THE END, AS HIS VALUE TO THE TEAM GOES FAR BEYOND THE PLAYING FIELD. HIS “COACHING” OF THE “YOUNG-GUNS” @ WIDE RECEIVER HAS BEEN INVALUABLE! HE HAS TAUGHT THEM ABOUT OFF-SEASON CONDITIONING, COMING BACK TO THE BALL, WHEN (AS USUAL) “BIG BEN” HAS BEEN SCRAMBLING FOR HIS LIFE. AND THEN HIS GREATEST ATTRIBUTE – “DOWN-FIELD BLOCKING”… I HOPE THAT THEY GIVE HIM A PROPER SEND-OFF AND THAT THE “TALK” OF HIS BEING ASKED TO TAKE OVER @ WIDE RECEIVERS COACH @ THE END OF HIS CAREER IS NOT “POPPY COCK!!”
SO, IN CLOSING… “DO NOT FRET” STEELER-NATION, GOOD THINGS ARE HAPPENING "BEHIND THE SCENES IN PITTSBURGH! THEY SHOULD (ONCE AGAIN) FIELD A TEAM CAPABLE OF “ASCENDING THE STAIRWAY TO SEVEN” (LOMBARDI TROPHIES) IN 2012!!
by MICHAEL S. MARSHALL on Feb 25, 2012 6:55 PM EST reply actions
You shouted so loud, and for so long...
…I had to stop listening.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Of course, I stopped also when...
…you said the Steelers were targeting Courtland Finnegan
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Same here
The only target the Steelers have for Finnegan is the target he wears when the Steelers WR’s give it back to him in spades. Blow ‘em up. BOOM. He’s a non-factor with a big mouth.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
"Oh... you're a northerner. What exactly do they call 'you people' from Pittsburgh?" "They just call us LUCKY."
Stop shouting. Homer has a headache.
I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson
His "cousin"...
…Del Usional
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Feb 25, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Uh...
I’m sure you didn’t notice, but your caps lock is on.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
seriously dude
we aren’t trying to be mean… typing in all CAPS is painful to read. all lower case isn’t a big deal tho… nice thoughts tho to add to the discussion
by BoiseSteeler on Feb 26, 2012 2:22 AM EST up reply actions
She asked me who I wanted to have a three some with. I said "Why not Zoidberg?"
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Feb 26, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
tampering
I am pretty sure it is tampering for the Steelers to talk to another team’s free agents prior to March 13. This whole post sounds like a silly fantasy. There is no way the team can sign Wallace, Nicks and Finnegan with their cap situation.
PUP & Veteran RBs
PUP is “not” a season-long “thing”
Is “John” Clay “a” veteran? Jonathan Dwyer “has” been around “longer” than Clay"."
in theory
they are both “veteran” though neither has a full season under their belt iirc.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 28, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
My two cents...
…(1) I don’t believe the Rooney’s over-ruled Tomlin; I believe he stated he “…believed…” the coaches would return, but made no definitive statement about Arians. Rooney’s felt Arians couldn’t be counted on for more than a year at a time, so declined to renew his contract, and to help save face for Arians, called it a “retirement”. Nothing nefarious.
(2) Can’t know ahead of time any more than we could with any other hire; Haley has his attributes, as well as negative, but there have been “no brainer” hires in the past that have failed to produce up to expectations. Only time will tell.
(3) Very high, but I don’t necessarily believe, first round high, unless BPA at pick 24, is a linebacker.
(4) Joey Porter.
(5) Yes, it is a major concern, but I can’t (or don’ want to) believe they are being as short sighted as they appear; there must be some master plan, with factors they’ve taken into consideration, that we just don’t (nor should) know about. Would I be happier if I did know, yes. But I will fret and moan, but will have faith they know what they’re doing. If I’m wrong, there will be disappointment and disillusionment far beyond anything I’ve experienced with the Steelers, since the 70’s.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
answer
1. No
2. Agree
3. Low- maybe 4-7 round unless Farrior is cut
4. Neil O’Donnell
5. No
4
Surely you can’t be serious.
"I think the beard will decide when the time is right to come back. It will know when the time is right and all of a sudden appear." -The Deisel
by count'em_six on Feb 25, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
He is serious, and don’t call him Shirley.
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
very good sir...
"I think the beard will decide when the time is right to come back. It will know when the time is right and all of a sudden appear." -The Deisel
by count'em_six on Feb 25, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You learn quickly Frank
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 26, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Old movies
One of my kids has been sick for 5 days (some kinda sinus cold with a very nasty cough). For the first 4 days all he did was watch old movies including the Airplane. On the fifth day he started playing video games which is when I knew he would be healthy enough to go back to school.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 27, 2012 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
Steelers would have been favorites in 1996
Neil O’Donnell was an above-average quarterback for the Steelers. Late in 1995, the Steelers were hitting their stride with the offense. That likely would have continued in 1996. It certainly would not have been worse than trotting out Jim Miller and Mike Tomczak. The Steelers made the playoffs with that awful QB situation but were blown out by the Pats because their running backs were hurt. If you have a crap QB and your running backs are down, you are going to be in trouble. In fact, the very next year the Steelers beat the Pats in the playoffs with Kordell. The loss of Neil O’Donnell was the only free agent loss by the Steelers since the beginning of free agency that pretty much doomed them to non-SB contender. I like many other players much better, but neither Searcy nor Nickerson nor Faneca nor Porter nor Thigpen nor Brown affected the Steelers the following season as much as the loss of O’Donnell did.
…and no single player affected the SB and sealed a loss like O’Donnell did.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
"Oh... you're a northerner. What exactly do they call 'you people' from Pittsburgh?" "They just call us LUCKY."
Not accurate
That was not just O’Donnell’s fault. The receiver ran the wrong route. Corey Holliday was a sixth receiver who was only playing due to Ernie Mills injury. Sure, O’Donnell screwed up, but it is not as simplistic as you state.
Regardless, let us say that it is. Is that worse that Kordell’s interceptions against the Pats and Denver, Tomczaks pukefest against the Pats, Tommy Maddox in general. I would rather have the team lose in the SB, then lose before that. Hell, you could say that Ben R lost the GB game and Peyton lost the Saints SB too.
I'm not saying that at all.
Kordell Stewart was not a reliable franchise QB. He was put into the slot that was way over his ability. Every draft that came and went without the drafting of a REAL franchise-capable QB I loathed. Tommy Maddox was mediocre, at best.
I’m not a QB apologist. The whole “the receiver ran the wrong route” thing is hogwash. O’Donnell wasn’t under duress twiceand simply threw a poor pass. He had time in both situations where he made the defender who was at least as mediocre as him look like a Pro Bowler. Ben helped tremendously in our SB loss. He played a bad game. He is, however, a true franchise QB that a team can and will win with. Including last second game winners in the SB. IMHO, it wasn’t Ben’s INT’s that were the back-breaker for us… it was Mendy’s fumble in the redzone that sealed the loss. (offensively speaking, anyway)
We could debate this all day, especially since the defense, as a whole didn’t play their best game either. But I’ll take Roethlisberger with the flu over O’Donnell anyday.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
"Oh... you're a northerner. What exactly do they call 'you people' from Pittsburgh?" "They just call us LUCKY."
I would take Ben in the 49ers game over O'Donnell
Kordell Stewart gets a bad rap. He was a qb who brought alot to the table, but was often used poorly. They changed his coordinators on 4 occasions when Kordell was not the greatest at learning offenses or reading defense. I blame Cowher for some of it.
Holliday did run the wrong route. You can say it was hogwash, but that means very little. O’Donnells first pick was all on him.
Kordell was an outstanding athlete. He would have excelled in a back-up position but was way out of his league as a starter. He played games emotionally vs. cerebrally. Cowher believed in Kordell: he believed in his desire to be a leader and a QB and I’ll never fault him for that…. even when I personally believe Cowher should have dumped him 2 years prior to that happening. Oh and btw… I also believe that one of the reasons the OC was changed 4 times was because they were searching for the “one” who would be able to simplify the game enough that he COULD learn to read defenses and develop the ability to run an offense.
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
"Oh... you're a northerner. What exactly do they call 'you people' from Pittsburgh?" "They just call us LUCKY."
That was not just O’Donnell’s fault. The receiver ran the wrong route.
WHAT???? Both times? With Neil looking on that side of the field, which means he could see the receiver “run the wrong route”
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
Sorry Kevin
That is not accurate. It really IS as simplistic as he states. On BOTH players (both blitzes) the receivers ran the hot toutes and Kneel O’Donnell threw the outs. And still he threw them SO LATE that he could have SEEN there was nobody there except an out of position DB and he STILL threw them.
The Receivers could have run to the water cooler, and it STILL would have been O’Donnell’s fault.
Iron sharpeneth iron... Proverbs 27:17
Neil O’Donnell? I think you may be the only Steeler fan in the world to think that. I’m thinking you must be a Cowboy fan to say such a thing. (j/k, but he has to be up there in the all time great Cowboys list)
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
O'Donnell
Why? I think the Steelers would have gone to the SB the next year with O’Donnell. He screwed with the help of Holliday. People want to blame O’Donnell, but he did get to the SB, which more than alot of QB could do. It is definitely more than his replacements did.
I disagree that the Steelers would have went to the SB the next year. But we’ll never know, so no sense debating it. As to your question of why you’d be the only one to think so, I just think that people don’t think too highly of a guy that was probably paid or threatened to throw a Super Bowl. I know you think it was the receiver’s fault, but I don’t think so. he was staring that side of the field down, he could see the guy wasn’t doing the right thing. He still just threw it directly in to the guys hands. I had a party when I found out he wouldn’t be back.
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
Sure, they might not have gone to SB
I used to buy every football magazine that came out back then. I distinctly remember multiple magazines indicating before the signing and after the signing that the Steelers would be the favorite if O’Donnell returned and that they would have been if he had returned. Who knows what would have happened. It is indisputable that the 1996 Steelers offense was much worse than the 1995 offense. Regardless, Neil 1995 stats
1995
PIT 12 246 416 59.1 2,970 7.14 17 7 1 87.7
1996 Tomczak
PIT 16 222 401 55.4 2,767 6.90 15 17 6 71.8
You are completely mischaracterizing my argument. I am saying that there are multiple persons are responsible. You are selectively ignoring that. O’Donnell screwed up, but so did his receiver. Also, to suggest that O’Donnell threw the SB is just silly. You say that it probably happened. I say that it is probable that you are making things up. You have no evidence. It is great to disagree, but what is believing conspiracy theories that have zero evidence to support it. If O’Donnell threw the SB, you can believe that the FBI would have investigated.
If you threw a party because a guy left, then we must have different definitions of fandom. I don’t get excited going into the season with a guy with 0 career starts as a low round pick and a guy with a career QB rating in the 60s.
You say that it probably happened. I say that it is probable that you are making things up. You have no evidence.
Well duh, nobody would ever know for sure. I really doubt the FBI would get involved, but I wouldn’t call it a conspiracy theory to think something really fishy was going on. Those were two of the worst throws I’ve ever seen, and there was no reason for either of them. Saying that it’s impossible that he threw the game is just as silly.
I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but I certainly think this is possible.
You are correct that you said there were multiple person’s responsible, I didn’t ignore it. I just completely disagree that the receiver had any responsibility there.
we must have different definitions of fandom
This is possible, it seems we disagree on his value as well. I waited my entire life to finally see my team get to the Super Bowl, thinking it may never happen, then we get there and Neil forgets what team he’s playing for. So, sorry, I was happy he couldn’t possibly ruin another SB run. I remember how big of a deal it was that he was an all time leader or something in fewest int’s per pass attempts.
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
IMO...
1. No problem with it at all. The whole story was media driven like the “Ben and Haley haven’t met” story. This organization has given me reason to trust it.
2. Won’t know til the season starts. I hope so. BA’s weaknesses as OC were so aggravating to watch.
3. I would like to see 2 LBs in the first five picks. Along with a NT and 2 OL
4. Some great answers so far. Faneca was our last real good guard. I will go with my original thought. Chris Hope. Nothing against Ryan Clark, but having Hope paired with Troy this whole time would have been amazing
5. I keep reading that the cap is going to jump significantly in the next year or two, so I guess the FO knows what they are doing.
1. no problem
2. I’m very, very intrigued
3. two words for the LB position…Ronnell Lewis. i’m not sold on Worilds at all.
4. I think the f.o. does an amazing job of letting the right players go at the right time…and keeping the ones who we should keep
5. again, I trust the f.o. completely. They are smart, patient and willing to take risks when necessary. Balancing the cap while fielding a competitive, SB caliber team is not easy…I like the idea of keeping the veterans together for a SB run last year. Kevin and Omar know what their doing!
1. +1 on no problem.
2. Was very concerned about Haley at first, but starting to warm up to it. I think BA catered to Ben too much, I am hoping to see more running on a consistent basis.
3. ILB is a big need, and can never have enough backers. I think Timmons will be fine, but need to find the heir apparent inside. I hope they hang on to Farrior this year to teach, but the cap…
4. Chad Brown was the first to come to mind. Then Plaxico, although off field issue wouldn’t have been tolerated. A game changer in his prime.
5. I have faith in them – pretty good at what they do! Also, the media angle of their cap situation being mismanaged is ridiculous. I see a team retaining and paying quality veterans to make a championship run every year. What’s the problem with that? Tough decisions this year, but would have come anyway due to age, money aside.
1) In today’s media age, it was bound to get messy one way or the other. Bruce does/does not want to retire; Steelers want a long term committment which he wasn’t able to give…in the end there seems to have been enough issues that he had to go. We can have all the yards on O we can get, but if we’re not good in the Red Zone, they don’t really mean much. Bruce wasn’t very good in the red zone (players have to execute granted, but the last 3 years were not very good).
2) Haley – don’t really know if he’s the answer or not. I’m not a fan of his to be honest, the sideline crap bothers me, but if he can get us into the endzone more often, then I’ll be more than happy to change my mind. Plus, I kind of like the whole thing about he’s not here to make warm & fuzzies, but to win. Ben probably does better without his coordinator being his best bud.
3) Tough one, but I’m going to say priority 3 for the 2012 season. I still think NT has to be #1 with McLendon the stater, Big Snack on the shelf (for at least part of the season), and no one after that (Ziggy isn’t an option in my mind). Close behind at #2 needs to be the o-line and only because it’s a deeper group than NT. Quality is still there afte the top 2 guys. Then I go ILB.
4) Searcy was a great choice, I’m a Georgia guy so Kendrell Bell is there also, Chris Hope…but I’m going with Faneca. When he left, our line dropped off dramatically and I think having him around would have been as big a help with teaching the younger guys as his play.
5) Before Omar started waiving his magic wand, yes I was worried. Now that I see him work his magic again (sorry for doubting you Omar!!!), I’m feeling pretty good about the situation. The new TV deal should help, and don’t forget that whickever vets end up hanging around this year and completing their contracts likely will not be around next year.
1. Like I’ve said before, if the Rooneys could overrule Chuck Noll, then Tomlin is above it, either. In a perfect world, I’d like to see the coach have the final say on who his assistants will be, but the NFL is a billion dollar business.
2. To me, it all comes down to execution. I’m willing to give Haley a chance. He proved that he knew how to work with a great receiving corps the last time he was a OC. He’s got another one to work with, this time around.
3. I’d say it’s a big priority, but how they address it will come down to who is available when it’s their time to draft.
4. Alan Faneca simply because of the void that he left at his position. A void that has yet to be filled.
5. I’m concerned. I’d hate to see it hurt them to the point where they wind up where the Cowboys and 49ers were for so many years, especially the 49ers.
My free agent was chad Brown
Impose your will.
by ALDOG on Feb 25, 2012 10:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Good questions
1. I don’t see anything wrong with how Arians was handled. None of us really know exactly how went down, but it was time for change.
2. Wait and see. I do think that someone pissing Ben off may actually help his performance. Ben’s a very competitive guy, and if Haley can push the right buttons, maybe Ben will work harder to prove he can meet Haley’s challenge.
3. I don’t think both Farrior and Foote are gone. I think Farrior is gone, Foote stays. They may sign a reasonably priced FA, then look for young talent in the draft, as usual.
4. Yancey Thigpen was the first that came to mind. I agree with those that brought up Hardy Nickerson, and especially Leon Searcy.
5. I think that everyone assumes that all this restructuring will land the Steelers in Salary Cap hell. It’s possible, but I think that enough of the big contracts that are being re-structured are players that are young enough (Timmons, Woodley, Miller, etc.) that they still have the options in the next couple of years to extend these players’ contracts as well to get them through the lean cap years.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 25, 2012 10:56 PM EST reply actions
1. I think they did the right thing to get rid of Arians. It doesn’t matter to me who in the organization made the decision and have no problem with Rooney II over-ruling Tomlin. Rooney is the boss.
2. I’m looking forward to watching Haley’s offense. The dude is creative. I’d like to see us have pass plays that develop more rapidly than Arians’ did. Slow play development was, IMO, a big reason for the constant pressure on R-berger. I think Haley will figure out a way to use Brown, Wallace and Sanders :)
3. Very high priority. I’d actually say #1 priority, even over NT. I think we can find an acceptable NT in the mid-late rounds or even on the free agent market. Really, it just has to be someone who can anchor really well, they don’t need to get much penetration. A Chris Hoke-type guy gives us what we need at that position. In contrast, we NEED star linebackers (esp. OLB). i’m not sure Hightower is the ILB we need (I think we need quickness/fluidity at that position) but we need a solid starter at ILB out of this draft. We also need to find that next great OLB (Worilds doesn’t look like that guy to me).
4. Good call on Hardy Nickerson. How about Mike Vrabel if for no reason than the Pats wouldn’t have had him.
5. I think the cap will rise and we’ll be ok.
My .02
1 Yes – I like no drama. When the Front Office dealt with the problems of Ben and Santonio in 2010 their actions were clear and decisive. Dealing with an OC whose contract had expired should have been a lay-up. The Front Office seems to be tripping over itself. To me this feeling has been reinforced by the leaks around Hines’s roster status.
2. Disagree – When a 12-4 team, that has 4 offensive representatives voted to the Pro Bowl, if you change OC you should feel at bear minimum the team should be able to maintain its 12-4 record. I do not get that feeling. Too much time has been spent telling people that Haley is not as nuts as you think he may be. "Don’t believe your lying eyes" and "He’s not nuts. He just cares a lot… a whole lot." are generally the things that are said. I would have preferred to hear less about how Haley was going to beat Ben into shape (by the way does it bother people that "experts" are talking about Ben like he was Marc Sanchez and not a QB with 10 playoff wins and 2 rings) and more about how Haley’s offensive philosophy will get 3 – 5 more point per game. Fewer offensive turnovers, more defensive turnovers and fewer games lost to injury by key starters would get 3 – 5 easy IMHO. Think about it this way. If the Steelers had won the SB this year and Arians had really retired, what with people be saying about the choice of Haley as OC?
3. No – To me injury and not lack of talent has hurt LB development. By Draft, Undrafted Free Agents and Free Agents the Front Office has brought in plenty of talent over the past decade at LB. I do not see this changing. Because of this LB is not a priority.
4. Nate Washington WR – May seem like an odd pick to some, but it would have given stability to the Steelers ever changing WR corps over the past decade. He was just entering his prime when he left. When Chad Brown left, LB’s were deep and "sick". Needed Faneca foe more than 3 years. I do miss Matt Speath’s run blocking in 2 TE sets but Nate Washington would be my choice.
5. No – Cap hell with no talent with no talent, like resent Redskins teams, is different from cap hell with an abundance of talent which the Steelers may be heading to. Hell or not a roster with players that people want can always be turned into a plus, both short and long term.
shorts
1. Seriously? No.
2. Wait and see. Sure to start many debates here for a while.
3. Best player available – period.
4. Faneca. If money doesn’t count, I’ll second O’Donnell – there’s one thing worse than five more years of him and that was the five years of Kordell. What a mess.
5. Minor concerns. We do have a shitload of talented men. Might have a rough 1-2 years at some point.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction
"They say that when you're the champs, everybody will try to beat you. Well, I'm glad we're champs, so bring 'em on, bring 'em all on. If we die, we ain't gonna die running. It's gonna be a fight." Joe Greene
by madanthonywayne on Feb 26, 2012 7:44 AM EST via mobile reply actions
4. Franco Harris
I don’t remember if it was FA but when he played with I believe the Seahawks his final games I hated it.
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
also Kevin Greene
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Feb 26, 2012 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
Question: What NT's are available in FA?
She asked me who I wanted to have a three some with. I said "Why not Zoidberg?"
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Feb 26, 2012 10:28 AM EST reply actions
Mike Vrabel
A lot of people have tagged Mike Vrabel as ‘the one that got away.’ No real arguement there, as the guy had a great career in New England.
But remember that:
1. Vrabel’s had injury issues during training camp in both ’98 and ’99 after an outstanding rookie year in 1997.
2. Both Joey Porter and Jason Gildon posted double digit sacks the season before Vrabel became a free agent.
It is true, the Steelers could have and perhaps should have done more to “find a place” for Vrabel, but letting him go wasn’t necessarily a bad decision at the time.
by Hombre de Acero on Feb 26, 2012 11:01 AM EST reply actions
Oh.. and...
It’s hockey day in Pittsburgh~ I always wanted to see what it looks like when a player is so hot he melts the ice: That was Geno Malkin, yesterday! Holy MVP.
On ice or grass we’ll kick your ass… and then we’ll pay the fine. LET’S GO PENS!
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
"Oh... you're a northerner. What exactly do they call 'you people' from Pittsburgh?" "They just call us LUCKY."
LOL, +1: The New Slogan for Pittsburgh Professional Sports...
On ice or grass we’ll kick your ass… and then we’ll pay the fine.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Available in t-shirts, coffee mugs, magnets and those neat little covers for your beer bottle. I own the set. lol
HERE WE GO STEELERS!
"Our Father, who art in Pittsburgh, Football be thy game. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, at Heinz Field as it is in Heaven. Give us this day, a stellar D and forgive us our bogus fines, as we (sorta) forgive Goodell who trespasses against us. And lead us not into defeat, but deliver us a Victory. For thine is The Steelers, the power and glory of climbing the STAIRWAY TO 7."
"Oh... you're a northerner. What exactly do they call 'you people' from Pittsburgh?" "They just call us LUCKY."
#5
No No No
In Khan We Trust, he’s not simply shrewd with the restructuring, his economic genius begins with the contracts themselves. There is NOTHING to worry about, we are not mortgaging the farm. Things are good mia familia.
I pledge allegiance to the Terrible Towel and the only team in America, and to the franchise for which it stands, one nation under Rooney, indivisible, with the ability to crush you all.
"He was popping off down there the first time they were about to score. So you run your mouth, expect to get something. Everything's between the lines, so he got what he had coming. He was running his mouth and getting in the way of the train, and the train wasn't coming off the track."
-James Harrison on Kyle Orton
by TVsCHACHI on Feb 26, 2012 1:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions
5 answers
1) Yes, the FO should’ve just fired BA within a week of season end – it was wholly justified and overdue
2) Not many better options than Haley for this team, you’ll see – he can run, he can pass and we’ll score points with a bit of fire
3) ILB is a high priority for this team – #2 or #3 behind Guard and NT
4) Chad Brown in ‘94 by a long shot – team could’ve signed him for very little before Lloyd got hurt, then he blew up and got 6x what Steelers would’ve paid
5) Not at all – those signings were not “reckless”, they’re very good or great players that Steelers needed to retain – Chris K has been a bust and Colon’s been hurt, but everyone else has earned those contracts and team is winning 12 games/year
Great Post
1) I don’t really care
2) Love Haley coming in and don’t get why people think he’s going to cause personality issues. And if there are issues, it’ll be the players who are probably the problem.
3) Yes, we need linebackers. It’s funny how we have a very good football team, yet we really need a lot of help in a lot of positions.
4) Alan Faneca
5) Looks a little scary, but I never really know how all the contracts and cap room works
don’t get why people think he’s going to cause personality issues
Because that’s what he’s done everywhere he’s been?
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
"because that's what he's done everywhere he's been"
I think that’s an over statement. AZ would have gladly kept him, and he did a good enough job there that he was given a HC position in KC.
Yes he was over the top fiery with the Chiefs, but that team sucked for so long that they needed a real kick in the pants. He took over a horrible team and made them competitive. I think they would have won the west this year too except for a ton of injuries which Haley had no control over.
It’s funny how many people were upset with the hire in Steelers nation, especially considering how many KC fans wish he would have stayed. Most comments I’ve read from Chiefs fans were positive with Haley. A good chunk of the issues that lead to him leaving KC can also be pointed back to the mega ego of their GM.
Well, the topic wasn’t whether he was a pretty good coach or not, it was about whether or not he’s going to cause personality issues. People being concerned is completely valid. He’s a hot head and a hard ass. And as far as KC fans, I really only remember two of them, and one of them is still coming over here just to fight the good fight for Haley, as well as fighting for Cleveland’s honor. Seems weird to me.
One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
Cap Nightmare
Yes I think the Steelers are heading for a cap nightmare. I know Khan and Colbert are moving these salaries trying to get them out and beyond the ‘14 season when the cap expands tremendously. The problem is there is going to be a lot of dead money by this time. I know Steeler Nation saw a lot of free agents walk in the 90’s but the team was still very very competitive. I fear that reworking these contracts is going to dent the depth and success that the team will have long term. Do I wanna them to win a SB now? Of course but I don’t want the Steelers to become a bottom feeder either and feel this philosophy very well could do that.
Something to say? Choose one of these options to log in.
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
"Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history."
Art Rooney Jr.
"Level-headed thinking." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Related FanPosts on Behind the Steel Curtain
Related FanShots on Behind the Steel Curtain
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
