Steelers Found Their Offensive Coordinator, Now, What is Their Plan?
With confirmation that Todd Haley is at the Steelers South Side facility today and will be named the team's offensive coordinator, Phase I of the modification of the Steelers offense is complete: they found their leader.
Now, there are plenty of broader picture issues that Haley and Steelers Head Coach Mike Tomlin will need to prepare for come minicamp, which is just three months away.
This list is far from all-inclusive, but much of the offensive transformation will be based on these three concepts:
Managing the relationship with QB Ben Roethlisberger
The adage "no one man is bigger than the team" is true, but it is with the exception of the franchise quarterback. It's particularly applicable in this case, as Roethlisberger and former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians are good friends and there's little chance that won't be in the back of Roethlisberger's mind when Haley works with him. Ben is a professional, and will no doubt follow the coach's instructions, but his willingness to do that - and way more importantly, his ability to deal with issues behind closed doors, away from the young players on the team - will be essential if this relationship is to work at a high level.
Haley must take on a willingness to meet Roethlisberger on a 60-40 basis. Good leaders have the humility to be able to recognize he or she is not more important than all of the people s/he is leading. In order to win the hearts and minds of the offense, he must get Roethlisberger to buy into the direction he's leading them. Therefore, he must know when to fight, when to concede and how to keep Ben engaged.
Haley certainly can do that, but if he fails, it will halt the progress of this talented offensive group.
Staying committed to the run
A commitment to the running game is not solely displayed by the amount of rushes a team has - it exists in the one-off situations. It's about choosing to run when the situation calls for a run, and being successful in those efforts.
To that end, it's not about the play-calling. It's about the amount of time Haley will spend in training camp working on those short-yardage plays. It's about making sure the back is running at pad level and securing the ball. It's about the linemen firing low off the ball and engaging their assignment with passion.
If those details are emphasized and fine-tuned and the players digest it, the play-calling itself is a snap. Instead of choosing the "right" play, Haley can choose from a slew of plays he knows the team can execute, and the real skill of a coordinator - being unpredictable - is achieved.
It makes little difference whether RB Rashard Mendenhall and Isaac Redman lead the league in carries, yards per carry or touchdowns. The Steelers will achieve the front office-mandated commitment to the run simply by watching how well they execute in short-yardage situations, including the goal line. Speaking of that...
Understand the problems in the red zone come from emphases placed outside it
Aaron Schatz of Football Outsiders made an excellent point earlier this season on how there is no direct correlation between a team's overall offensive efficiency and its efficiency when inside the opposing 20-yard line.
The Steelers may stray from that statement a bit, considering they were 12th in the NFL with 373.2 yards per game, but tied with Tennessee for 21st in the league at 20.3 points per game. To put this into context, the Steelers needed 18.33 yards for each point they scored this year. That figure was the 27th highest total in the league.
No team lower than them (Washington, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Kansas City and St. Louis) even sniffed the playoffs in 2011.
What this anomaly illustrates is the Steelers' core philosophy last season: rip off big chunks of yards at all times. That may work between the 20s, and red zone efficiency may not be anything more than another way to judge an offense's success overall, but physical properties establish there aren't as many yards to grab in chunks when you're that close to the end zone.
In other words, they moved the ball when they had room to move it. They failed when they needed less yards.
That is because Roethlisberger's elusiveness is far less valuable, because receivers don't have the same amount of real estate they had 40 yards earlier in the drive. Defenders know they have the back of the end zone as an extra defender, and that cut off Roethlisberger's ability to make big plays off-schedule.
The decisions made before the red zone are made before the game. A red zone commitment to the ground doesn't mean only call running plays inside the 20, it means recognizing the situation for each down and distance as well as the location on the field from which the play will be run.
Arians' play-calling decisions and failures were ultimately made before the opening kickoff. Haley must prepare this team to challenge its opponents in the short field as well as the vertical one.
All of these things should keep Haley, Tomlin and the rest of the offensive staff busy between now and the next set of organized team activities. Perhaps with 14 hours a day, every day, until the start of OTAs, they could have it down pat.
Unless, of course, something happens to a player entering camp looking to become a prominent member of the offense. What's Wes Saunders up to?
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Do you think we will draft a TE now?
I could see us spending a late round pick on one
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by seton hall and steelers on Feb 7, 2012 2:30 PM EST reply actions
Dejan tweeted that the NFL has some explaining to do not Saunders
I don’t know how to post a tweet or I would
Hmmmm...interesting

Is that preparation for the infamous “the company listed the ingredients, I didn’t know what was in there” bit?
If that’s true, I would believe it could have happened. Saunders neither looks nor plays like he’s using any significant kind of steroid or HGH. The Union is really going to have to figure out how to get lists of approved products, or insurance from the manufacturer it’s up to code.
I bet companies would line up to offer that insurance though.
The guy whose tweets I really like won’t say what the hell is going on. He says he was using a “therapeutic drug” that isn’t weed. I have no idea what the hell that means.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 7, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Hey....Speaking of "therapeutic drugs".......or natural ones.....looks like Ricky Williams Retired
Jason La Canfora
✔
@JasonLaCanfora
Ricky Williams informed BAL officials he’s retiring. Ends a distinguished if unconventional career. Team would have welcomed him back
I'm not sure there are many other players I respected less
Than Ricky Williams. Joining the Ravens made me like him even less.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 7, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn’t be surprised if it was amphetamine, which is found in Adderall.
This has happened with a few players (Jon Dwyer before the draft tested positive for it), and they have prescriptions, and even tell the league before the test, providing the appropriate info.
They fail the test, and the league still reports it the same as if it was pot. Perhaps if the league put their subcontracted testers on something of a confidentiality agreement, word wouldn’t leak as quickly as it does.
how about an early round pick.
Gronk, Hernandez, Graham. All 2nd and 3rd rounders I think.
Pretty valuable in todays game.
Stop ignoring the position.
Because every TE drafted early is going to turn into Gronk/Graham, amirite? Besides, Saunders isn’t going anywhere.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
No but
You don’t get a good tight end the way we go about it. Miller was first round. Since then we ignore the position
Just want an athlete at the position
We have a damn good TE in Miller, and another TE with loads of potential (Saunders). Our TEs are fine.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
From personal experience, Tunch's life had to be Hell in recent months or years.
And now he just lost his best friend on top of it. It’s a crazy damned world alright.
I had to turn off 93.7 the fan
I was getting tired of them contemplating the “release” of Bruce Arians as some offensive genius and Ben as some petulant baby thats going to cry and whine about Haley. As I had written in another discussion Arians wasn’t “bad,” he was average and as for Big Ben, he is a professional football player and a leader on the team, he is going to embrace this change like a trooper and make it work. I have no doubts. Sometimes I think 93.7 feels as though they need to drum up this highly hypothetical situation and then pound it until it almost seems true (ex. Pirate talk) when all they have to do is conversate evenly about the situation.
What has Ben done these past two seasons that would give you any indication that he was going to be unprofessional? Sure he was none to happy about losing a friend (I certainly wouldn’t be), but in the end, he is an employee and I believe he understands that. His comment about going and talking to the Rooneys was so overblown it was pathetic, it is common for a valued employee to seek direction and guidance from his employer especially when the employer changes things so drastically as to removing the OC.
Just another quick note, to the comment by Arians about having “63000 Ofensive Coordinators in the stands,” dude man up. The amount of money it takes to go to a Steeler game (or the amount it costs me for Sunday Ticket because I live in Balt) I reserve the freakin right as a fan to question everything. Thats the beauty of being a “FAN.”
Conversate?
"In football, there are football players and there are footballs. A lot of times in football, a football player will be running with a football, and a lot of times, he carries the football into the end zone. Now, when a football player running with a football takes that football into the end zone, boom! It's a touchdown." - Anthony DeFeo
by chewiesteeler on Feb 7, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Converse
I suspect
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 7, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Hey one of my kids has sneakers like that sorta
Except his are hightops and are made of leather.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 8, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Are you sure it's their fault? How many of those class did you sleep through?
"Kompromise, my friend, is the essence of diplomacy, and diplomacy is the kornerstone of love... sweeeeeet looooOOOve"
Where did you go...?
J. Jackson School of Elocution?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
another pitt fan in Bal
Are you going to see the Pirates when they come into Baltimore this year
by steeler_in_maryland on Feb 7, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
Most definitely...
The only problem is dealing with the Baltimore fan (in general)…
NEW GUY IN TOWN
Excellent post.
Ben and Todd will need to work together in order to get a SB victory, the weapons are there waiting for a good draft or someone in the open market to help in the OL
Both guys need to have the humility to make this thing work properly
Win, lose or tie a Steeler's fan forever and until I die.
God is our coach.
The luck doesn't come easily you need to look for it
Look for Haley to add speed and toughness
A speedy 3rd down back will be signed or drafted and he’ll likely look at veteran experience up front on the line; he had major success with Jamaal Charles and utilized Dexter McCluster in a lot of ways after missing out on Darren Sproles in free agency. He loves the Sprint Draw and backs who can catch the ball out of the backfield and get to the outside. He knows it starts up front though, and I’m sure that’s a conversation he had before taking the job: the offensive line needs rebuilt.
It’s going to be a lot of fun watching him bring his type of players into the system. I’m excited.
Baron Batch
Speedy third down back. If he gets healthy there is no need to draft one.
"I've been trying to justify you, in the end i will just defy you" Dream Theater
>_< Fingers and toes crossed
1st-4th down back… Faulk 2.0… Faulk 2.0… Faulk 2.0…
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 7, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
backs aren't the problem
Speed and toughness are great. I just want our OL to have some of it.
"Kompromise, my friend, is the essence of diplomacy, and diplomacy is the kornerstone of love... sweeeeeet looooOOOve"
by CheekyMonkey on Feb 7, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Amen x2
I have seen some ridiculous mock draft of late on this board… you can get everything this team needs in 1 draft. We MUST address the OL FIRST then NT before any other position. Our Dbacks played much better with Lake coaching them than in recent yrs so lets give him some more time to develop the ones we have draft the past 3 drafts. The D can survive (with a few tweaks) if the Offense can generate 1TD per quarter per game and take half a quarter or loner to do so. But none of the mock drafts mean squat until we know for certain the off season moves that have to be done to get under the cap…
Add determination to that
In KC, we had problems with Derek Johnson not sticking to his assignment. He spent much of training camp in 2009 on 3rd string. Why? He didn’t listen. In his college days, he just followed the ball. Haley wanted him to stick to the script, play the gap assigned, and stuck to his guns about it. DJ finally came around; had a career year in 2010. He bested that in 2011 and made the Pro Bowl.
Jamaal Charles spent time on 3rd string in 09 camp (and early season) also. A big part of that is he didn’t take care of the ball the way Haley wanted him to. Didn’t handle his blocking assignments well enough. He too wised up, got his chance in 2010. Missed Jim Brown’s YPC record by .1 yard (yes, one tenth of a yard). While sharing duties with Thomas Jones in 2010, Charles missed the rushing title by less than 150 yards (Jones had just shy of 900).
In both instances it was “This is what you’re expected to do at your position. Do that, and then we’ll talk about giving you a chance to showcase your abilities.”
Biggest thing I liked about Haley was he’ll analyze what he’s got, determine what they do best, and pound that down his opponents throat. I remember he’d talk about his time growing up in a Steelers household in a few of his press conferences while at KC. It was obvious it left a big impression on him. With that history, and his dedication to detail, you have big things in store Steel City!
"Coach Haley isn't always a butthole" Steve Breaston
Heres to hoping
that Todd Haley gets the red zone offense running better. I’m sick of the Steelers dominating on field, dominating the box score numbers, yet still losing. Its all about the points and the W.
If he adds weapons like he did in KC
I don’t think it’ll be problem, because he’ll have a QB who can execute, which he didn’t have in Matt Cassel. He’ll also bring a mental toughness and confidence to this offense that Arians didn’t. Gonna be fun to watch.
It "should" be - the weapons are DEFINITELY there
I like the hire. Just hope that it pans out.
I don't think the Steelers have great weapons outside of Wallace, Brown, and Sanders
We need an overhaul at RB, FB, and TE.
We need a real FB and that is it. We are fine at RB and TE.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
Hey probably thinks Mendenhall is garbage
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 7, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Not exactly my favorite player
but give him a true FB and I bet Mendy changes some minds.
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
What do you call Heath Miller? - to MattHoover
AND, if we can straighten out the mess with Wes Saunders – I think that he can be just as good as Heath. Heath, in my opinion. is one of the best TE’s in the NFL. There are only so many receivers that you can throw to. Schmitt from Philly would be someone to consider if he is available for FB. I am sure that we can find a “sleeper” in the late rounds. Tampa got Blount as an UDFA.
I’m just joking, please don’t take that the wrong way.
Heath is one of the best TE’s in the NFL. Anyone who knows anything knows this.
I hear it on EVERY broadcast during our reg season games. I know it from watching him.
If Heath was afforded the opportunity to be a receiver, he’d get the recognition he deserves. Just like Ike would get the recognition he deserves if he could make an INT or two (though, the memory of his last game might cloud that.)
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I am hoping for everything to gel here
Haley was around Pittsburgh growing up and is basically coming home to a good franchise which should keep him in good spirits. he is inheriting a plethora of talent on the offense, with a need for shoring up the O-Line. Kugler made great strides with the guys he had last year, so any additions should make the line significantly better. I have high hopes that Batch turns out to be a steal similar to A. Brown and gives us another big threat. I think Ben will take some steps forward under Haley’s guidance and blossom while chasing those next 3 rings he wants before retiring. I think this will work out for the best.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
gel together it should
Looking at the team in AZ when Haley was OC, I can say that the offensive line actually provided pretty decent protection for one of the more immoble qb’s in the NFL at the time. They had to be creative with the running game because of the lack of talent at that posistion. As mdsteelerfan states, Kugler pretty much performed a mirical with the mash unit we all referred to as the Steelers OL. Now, we look and see how Haley turned Jamal Charles into a rushing threat in KC before the injury, gives a lot of optimism yo what he can accomplish with Mendy, Redman, Clay, Batch and Dwyer. I really don’t see moore coming back this season, so I think they can really surprise teams this coming season as long as there is a committment to improving the OL and a more concentrated effort top providing a better and more productive running game. For those that see this as a win for all Steelers both fans and team…kudos to you ..because it is. For the others, well, once Haley does for the Steelers running game what he did with KC, there will be some believers after the backs run them over…..just like he made them believe in Charles.
Way to get inside the yards!
27th in yards/points just isn’t going to cut it for a OC. Should not be hard to get to the middle of the pack for Haley.
by ibygeorge on Feb 7, 2012 3:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Todd Haley called .......
He wants to know if any of you have a worn-out, faded Steeler hat & a worn-out, faded Steelers sweatshirt he can borrow on game days
" I think this is probably the best team ever assembled. They talk about the Vince Lombardi Era, but I think the Chuck Noll Era is even greater. " - Mel Blount
by michaelbro8 on Feb 7, 2012 3:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Since he grew up in the Burgh in the 70's...I bet he still has one of these....We all had this hat :)
That knit cap
went well with the varsity winter jacket from that era. The jacket was black with the logo on one side of the chest, and had yellow sleeves. Only problem with the yellow sleeves is they weren’t made of cloth, so when it got real cold, it became more difficult to bend you elbows if you were under ten years old.
I have that hat and it is my prized winter possesion. Thank you Mom for saving it for me.
"You might as well appeal against the thunderstorm."
-William T. Sherman, the Battle of Atlanta
I still have mine!!
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 7, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
My late dog ate mine years ago...
…and I still resent it.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
is that why he is late?
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 7, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Hahaha....no, he died of old age...
…damn dog ate everything from grapefruit off the table to TP off the roll.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
TP off the roll.
I really wish you had video evidence of that.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Meant the paper roll...
…not the kind of “roll” you find at DBN.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
I still have that hat
It was given to me as a kid
by steeler_in_maryland on Feb 7, 2012 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
Does Haley use a FB?
Is the running game more of the same or will we have a power FB who can also make an occasional catch out of the back field?
by Steeler Nation VA on Feb 7, 2012 3:41 PM EST reply actions
If Jones doesn’t retire you better hope your team doesn’t sign him.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
Curious as to why you say don’t sign him.
Personally, we don’t need him. I think his best yrs are way behind him.
Still curious as to why the strong anti-recommendation
Because he’s terrible. He’s played in KC for two seasons. He had a decent half season the first year and hasn’t done a thing ever since. Every once in a great while (as in when the line opens a 5 foot wide hole) he breaks a decently long one, but most of the time he’s down at the line of scrimmage.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
Yeah. Haley didn’t suspend him, though, and Baldwin’s the one who got hurt. The story’s not exactly clear except that they got in a fight. I think the only reason he was brought back was to help build the culture. The guy’s a freak and appears to work hard, just doesn’t have the talent to get it done anymore.
McClain, on the other hand, would be a great pick up. I hope he comes back to KC and that Daboll has a better idea of how to use him than Haley did. I wouldn’t judge Haley on 2011 though. I think you’ll be happy with the hire.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
Jones
I thought the Jets had pretty much run the wheels off him in NY before you guys got him. Good back but was overworked.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 8, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'll second this.
He’s a great leader and locker room presence, but his playing days should be over.
McClain would be a great pickup
And I think he liked Haley. He has a ton of heart and can run & catch and also block like a Mack truck.
I'm guessing he'd be available for $2-3 million per year, but could be less
There wasn’t much of a market for him last year which is in part why he signed with Kansas City for just a year. He played very well though. I can’t find any salary information for him to see what they paid him.
Agreed, found some 2011 fullback salaries
And it’d likely be in the $1.5-2 million range. With the Steelers’ cap problems, it’d likely be on the lower end.
He doesn't really use a FB
We picked up McClain in the offseason and he spent most of his time on the sideline. He will use a FB to block some but otherwise we had a lot of 1-back sets.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
Overall a positive hire
I don’t know that Haley would have been my first choice. Then again, I have never worked in the front office of an NFL franchise.
Regardless, I’m glad they went outside the organization to find someone to lead the offense. The coaching staff on offense had become complacent, content to rely on Roethlisberger’s improvisation and the speed of our wideouts. For as good a friend as Arians claimed to be to Roethlisberger, he sure didn’t seem to care how many hits his quarterback took in a game or season. And that’s certainly no way to endear yourselves to ownership, putting their 100 million dollar QB on the injury list week in and week out.
If all Haley does is get the line to protect the QB better, and departs from the bubble-and-chuck offense, then we come out ahead in this deal.
Managing the relationship w Ben
First of all Ben is not a true professional yet. The stench of the bathroom incident is still in the air and he just finished telling the world how he was going to discuss getting the offensive issues corrected w Mr. Rooney.
Ben doesn’t seem to realize that he doesn’t go over the head of the coach to talk about getting the offensive scheme worked out to the owners preference. That’s the coaches job. That’s major arrogance by Ben to even suggest it and It’s way out of line.
Secondly there will be no 60-40 negotiating crap behind closed doors w Haley, that’s not his style at all.. Haley is the OC and while he will listen to Ben’s input he will do it his way. If anything Haley will be tougher on Ben in front of the young players.
I suspect Ben’s arrogance is a bit out of hand and that’s one of the reasons they brought Haley in. Your assessment in the first paragraph after the jump is totally off base.
First of all Ben is not a true professional yet.
That’s major arrogance by Ben to even suggest it and It’s way out of line.
I suspect Ben’s arrogance is a bit out of hand
You seem to know the man awfully well, considering the fact that you’ve never even had a conversation with him.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
he just finished telling the world how he was going to discuss getting the offensive issues corrected w Mr. Rooney.
I don’t think that’s what he said. He was disappointed with the decision to not bring Arians back, and he wanted to discuss with Mr. Rooney what, exactly, he wanted to see. To me, that’s suggesting Ben didn’t feel the fault was on the coordinator.
Secondly there will be no 60-40 negotiating crap behind closed doors w Haley, that’s not his style at all.. Haley is the OC and while he will listen to Ben’s input he will do it his way. If anything Haley will be tougher on Ben in front of the young players.
Roethlisberger’s achieved a bit more than Matt Cassel has, and while he may not be Kurt Warner, it’s 2012, not 2008. I’m not suggesting he should allow Roethlisberger to do whatever he wants, but he needs to unify the offense, and coming in guns a blazin’ against a two-time Super Bowl winning quarterback is not, in my opinion, the best way to handle things.
If you disagree, fine.
Your assessment in the first paragraph after the jump is totally off base.
You don’t think there’s any reason in today’s NFL to suggest the quarterback is without question the most important part of a team?
I appreciate your support for Haley, I like what you have to say about him. These aren’t anti-Haley comments, though. There is a level of diplomacy that’s needed. This team, unlike Kansas City when he got there, is not in need of an overhaul. It needs a shift in direction. There are plenty of experienced members of this offense who have won far more than Haley’s teams did, and to disrespect that, and them, will not end well for either side.
Your thoughts on this:
“Was told from good source that Cards ownership wanted Haley back but not 1 member of staff wanted to work with him again”
You are a pro-Haley guy, it seems he draws a pretty hard line of like or hate.
He does
But our world is so split 50/50 these days too. Where did this quote come from? I haven’t heard that about the Cards. Odd given that he spoke with them several times this offseason about a job.
It was a tweet from a radio guy in Pittsburgh
93.7.
I think the quote explains perfectly why he met with them multiple times. The coaches hate him but ownership likes him. Not saying it’s a fact, but it certainly can be supported.
Boiling it down, some guys love him, some guys hate him. That’s really all I’ve learned about Todd Haley in the last two weeks.
You're correct
It’s a love/hate thing, but I’m finding that the fans that pay attention and know football are the guys that love him. The guys that hate him tend to be the uniformed, ESPN-only crowd. Just my 2.
You don't really know why he met w them multiple times
and media guys are not great sources. They usually have an ax to grind or have politics involved.
and you can’t support anything. you reference a quote that you don’t name and that’s nothing but hearsay. Come on man.
Come on man.
Are you not bright enough to realize that the top of the page is his unbiased reporting (although he says he’s fully biased toward our team) and that the bottom of the page is for discussion and opinion?
If you’re not, you’re welcome for the lesson in common sense
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
yes, you did. Peppered with insults that sort of told everyone that you do not know the difference between the top and bottom of an article like this on a forum.
You also made claims about our QB that, if they were true, you could only possibly know by actually having inside information. But you don’t
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I'd give him this
Ben is probably arrogant. Ben is definitely a quarterback. That’s the way they are. It probably helps them in their job. They can’t ever feel like they’re anything less than the best.
Contrary to the sentiment, though, Haley is not going to “put Ben in line” or any other rhetoric being spewed here. His job is to put Ben in a position to succeed. If he doesn’t, it falls on both of them, but Haley’s the one who will be out of a job.
I would think that any starting QB not named Mark Sanchez or Joe Flacco would be arrogant. They are the best of the best….
Second paragraph….YEP. People’s nostalgia glasses paint Cowher as a God….he was “tough” and blah blah….he bailed instead of trying to deal with Ben..
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I don't think you know what you're talking about
I didn’t insult anyone, I gave my opinion. You don’t like it that’s your problem.
Having been a reporter, I can tell you the mistrust with media sources is understandable, and in some cases, appropriate. However, I can assure you the supposed ax you’re mentioning is ground far less with media people than it is with readers.
As for the source, it was a radio guy from 93.7 in Pittsburgh, I forget his name. It was on Twitter. If what he’s reporting is somehow undermined in your estimation because I didn’t write his name down, you’re not interested in objectivity, you have your own ax to grind with people who don’t like Haley. I posted it to generate some discussion on the web site. A reasonably-minded person won’t discount it for lame reasons because s/he doesn’t like the overarching point it’s making (that there are people who don’t like Todd Haley).
It’s easy to suggest unnamed sources are less credible, because it makes you more comfortable. In sports in particular, I promise you, unnamed sources are far more honest than people speaking on the record. If you disagree with that, and you have some kind of paranoid delusion that a reporter is making stuff up, you’re ignorant. Most major news outlets don’t run stories unless they have confirmation from two separate sources. I don’t know if that’s what happened here, it’s really not strong news, but he has less to gain in making it up than you think he does.
The fact is, like a good reporter, he contacted people inside the situation, and got their take on it. Even if he doesn’t support the hiring of Haley (I honestly have no idea whether he does or not), his information is not his opinion. He’s stating he spoke with people inside the Cardinals organization and they said the coaches didn’t want to hire him back.
It does not mean, however, Todd Haley is a horrible person, or he’s a bad hire for the Steelers. He’s simply giving his audience something to talk about, which, frankly, is the essence of sports reporting.
I'se sure Ben will get back ta tendin' the field...
… under your management style. Please, if I wasn’t on a mobile device I’d parse all the absurdities of your stmt, but I see Riddlah already did.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
It wasn't arrogance on Ben's part....
The reason he said he wanted to speak to Mr. Rooney directly is because Mr. Rooney himself said that Ben needs to “tweak” his game a little bit. Couple that with the fact that the OC had just “retired”, then I think he had every right to go to him for some clarification. This thing with Ben wanting to talk to Rooney is still being blown out of proportion.
"If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane" - Jimmy Buffett
something positive
Chiefs completed 85 passes to running backs last year.
We completed a little over 30. Clear weakness in my eyes all year.
hopefully haley puts that back into the playbook.
He will
threw a lot to Charles & McCluster….likes to motion to or line them up in the slot or throw out of the backfield
Yes, that’s the kind of offense you have to run when your quarterback sucks, and you only have one decent receiver. Does that sound like the Steelers to you?
You’re like one of those guys that just says “we need to run more”.
In this case, you’re “we need to dump off more” when in reality, we needs to dump off in the right situations, when it’s appropriate
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
One decent receiver? Maybe in 2010.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
isn’t 2010 his last full season? What else do we have to go off of?
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
You were replying to stats from 2011 so I assumed you were talking about 2011. If not I’m sorry, you’re right. The Chiefs had one good receiver in 2010.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
No…it turns out I was replying to that. Sorry. But still…you lost your QB in 11, so..with players like Palko…dump offs were a more viable option when you are playing with someone like Palko..
The Chiefs may have had 2 good receivers in 11, but they had 0 QB’s until Orton came on (after Haley if memory serves) So….dump offs were bound to be more prevalent.
I just don’t see what scottd7 says is positive. He’s one of our classic “blame everything on the OC” people, and he is completely ignoring the circumstances
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
He’s one of our classic "blame everything on the OC" people, and he is completely ignoring the circumstances
I didn’t read that in scott’s statement. He just expressed his desire to run more screens (when appropriate is another matter) and that the steelers don’t really do that. They can’t run an effective screen, regardless of situation. We’ve all discussed that if you get Mendy in the open field, he can have great success. Screens accomplish that – regardless if they have good receivers or not. The steelers are notoriously bad at running screens (i don’t include bubble’s) – and I think that’s what he was alluding to.
Never said focus on dump offs
Watch other offenses and you will notice it is hard to cover and it prevents sacks
You're referring to Baldwin, right?
How’s he looking? I was really curious about how he would do his rookie year. Looked really raw at Pitt, but definitely has elite skills in some areas.
Baldwin and Steve Breaston. Breaston’s amazingly underrated.
Baldwin looked good when he got on the field.Check out this catch which didn’t make any highlights because it got called back on a stupid penalty. He made several great catches, though, and looked good most of the time. When Orton came in the biggest problem was timing. There were several plays every game where he was open and Orton made the pass, Baldwin either turned late or went the wrong way. I think that will be fixed with a full off season with one QB.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
Thanks
But all offenses use RB as a weapon. Did you see brees check down 14 times in playoff game? Better than a sack right? Even good offenses do it RB passes are easy completions. I didn’t say we need to dump off more. Needs to be part of the game plan especially when protection breaks down . you may have noticed this happens to us sometimes
I’m not necessarily sold on making running backs the primary on passing plays more often, but getting Ben to check down and take what they give you instead of always trying to buy time to make a big play would probably help.
The thing with Ben is he doesn’t fear third and long. Remember the first Cincinnati game? He and Brown were dialed in, and they completed three third-and-10+ plays. That makes him think it’s the kind of thing he can do all the time. Gotta give him credit, he has the confidence to do it, but it’s kind of like winning the battle instead of winning the war.
If he threw it short, teams would look more for it when he’s moving around. You don’t need more than a quarter second of hesitation from a defensive player to make a big play. If he instilled his willingness to use the whole field, he’d be much more effective.
There are two basic concepts I think of when it comes to a quarterback: 1. The QB is the CEO of the team. The CEO’s job is not only to make a profit (make plays), it’s to not take losses. Alex Smith is a good example of that. It wasn’t so much that he was good, it’s that he eliminated the bad. That leads me to 2. Any possession ending with a kick is a positive thing. An extra point, a field goal or a punt. That’s 7 points, 3 points or field position. Take what the defense gives you, keep moving the ball, maintain possession of it and good things will happen.
Haley needs to work with Ben on getting past the idea he needs to be an all-or-nothing passer. That doesn’t mean Rashard Mendenhall has to get four catches a game by design, but he can use him just as effectively.
I think there could be a clear benefit in balance
Looking at what the “Greatest Show on Turf” did, the touches that Faulk was getting were not interfering in Holt, Bruce, Hakim and Proehl getting their numbers. If anything I think it made the receivers more dangerous because the defensive front 7 had to be so focused on the backfield of the offense.
I have no illusions that we are going to put up those kinds of numbers with Roethlisberger’s style of play, but having guys like Mendy and Batch coming out of the backfield could be very dangerous.
"My mentality is singular in that I want to be world champs each and every year, so that's what we work toward. I have a tough time acknowledging levels of success short of that. That's just how I'm wired." - Mike Tomlin
by MDSTEELERSFAN on Feb 8, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
I "really" like your first and lat sentences.
We solve that problem with Ben and he will avoid a lot of injuries and sacks. Enjoy the entire post. Wish Management would read these sometimes. I am sure that they already know it. But why are they not correcting it? Hope Haley will get Ben’s respect without trying to be his “buddy”. also, it wouldn’t hurt for Ben to come in minus a few pounds that he carried last year.
OL and FB are our only offensive needs.
I have no idea why people are getting so down on our RB’s and TE’s.
RB- Mendy is a top talent and ACL tears are not as bad as they used to be. Redman is a horse. Dwyer and Batch have great potential. Even Clay seems capable of pounding it.
TE- Miller is one of the best in the game. Saunders has talent to become a great receiving TE.
Just want to clarify that these two positions are solid and nowhere near a need for this team.
Agreed that the line is priority #1.
I still see a lot of need for speed & versatility at HB, FB, and TE; overall the group is average and they’re mostly one-trick ponies, and not necessarily great at those tricks. There will be fresh blood at all 3 positions.
We love the one trick pony line on here
That’s how they’ve been used, not what they’re necessarily capable of doing.
Mendenhall is a very talented running back. He can catch the ball, but his quarterback doesn’t throw it to him. He’s plenty fast, that’s for sure.
He ran like a pussy all last year
He’s not the long-term solution
He’s not the long-term solution
I disagree. He is good, not great, and that is all we need him to be. We don’t need an amazing RB with the offense we run.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
He could even be great.
With a line and OC that uses him right, he could be LT 0.9
Are you forgetting he tore his ACL just over a month ago?
He may not even be ready for the beginning of the season. The Steelers will add talent to this position – bet on it.
He’ll start the year on the PUP, probably won’t be ready for Week 1. Redman has shown he can run the ball as the primary three-downs back, but you’ve got two running backs with experience behind him (Dwyer and Clay) along with Mewelde Moore. Should Moore’s salary not work, the coaches were raving about Baron Batch before he blew his knee out, and he’ll be 100 percent by mini-camp.
Yeah, they may bring in someone, but probably not a draft pick. Dwyer, 6th round, Batch, 7th round, Redman, undrafted, Moore, free agent. Mendenhall’s in the deep minority.
They’ve got talent they can compete with, and if they bring someone in, it wouldn’t be shocking, but it won’t be a draft priority.
Dwyer and the other young guys
I think Dwyer has a lot more upside than he has been given credit for. Before he tested positive for Adderall he was being considered a 2nd round prospect (likely headed to Texas according to one report). People are too ready to give up on him.
I think Clay has the least upside of the young RBs but he still can pound and is getting better with playing time.
B. Batch may or may not be a breakout player that everyone is hoping for. At worst I think he will be able fulfill Moore’s role, assuming Moore is a cap casualty. At best we could be very happy campers.
I don’t put Redman into this conversation because he has proven himself and I am very happy with how he was turned out.
I doubt we draft any RB before the 5th round and wouldn’t be surprised if we only signed UDFA RBs after the draft. We have too many other holes to fill.
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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 8, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Not to mention, I was much more impressed with the vision of Mendenhall after getting to see him live in the Browns game at Heinz. The holes were just not there, and the ones he found were amazing. Assuming he gets his explosion back, our stable of backs is more than stocked.
"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."
-- so says Rex Ryan.
I agree
I don’t think he’ll be a great running back, but he certainly has proved he can get 1,400 and 13 scores. If he did that five or six years in a row, he’d be great. Probably won’t sniff that next year, but he can can be a very effective all-around back.
I think Mendy ran with a lot of heart last year
The guy tried to make the most out of every carry. There’s really only about 3 or 4 guys in the league I’d take over Mendenhall.
On Miller
He is one of the best blocking TEs in the business and catches damn near everything thrown to him. I will give you speed but he is fast enough to stretch the field in seam routes. He is not used enough.
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
And I don't think you can put Miller in the top tier of NFL tight ends
He’s 2nd-tier at best.
You’re not considering how he’s being used. Because the offensive line has so many holes, he has to stay in-line on most passing downs.
Miller has boatloads of talent, you’re just seeing Jimmy Graham and thinking he’s what a tight end is supposed to be. In reality, he’s a gigantic wide receiver, but by shifting him in, the Saints can get him in mismatch situations.
They’re afforded that because they can pass protect and their quarterback will get rid of the ball.
Outside of jumping for balls, Graham is a horrible tight end, one of the worst blockers in the league, doesn’t run good routes and doesn’t have great hands. He’s just really big and fast enough to beat safeties down the seam.
If all you want a tight end to be is a receiver, though, then sure, he does pretty well. Put Miller on the Saints, he has more success than he has here. Put Graham on the Steelers, I’m not sure he even makes the team.
Your points are valid....to a point
We still have no receiving threat at the position. Miller is a dependable possession receiver when needed and a very effective blocker, but he is not a threat that opposing defenses have to gameplan for. He doesn’t stretch the field or create mismatches. He’s just a very solid tight end.
This offense needs a weapon at TE. Look at Graham, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Moeaki, Vernon Davis…the list goes on. Miller would be a GREAT 2nd TE to pair with a receiving threat, and they’ll look for one. Haley likes TE’s. There will be a good spot for Miller, but the position can be upgraded.
He’s just a very solid tight end
What else do you want from a TE. Fix the damn O line where he doesn’t have to stay in and block and he will put up 700+ again.
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
Blocking blocking blocking
You don’t see blocking in the stat sheet. We’re not talking fantasy football.
And as I said, he's a very effective blocker
And a reliable possession receiver, but he’s not a game changer, thus an upgrade is very possible.
You don’t need to have a game changer at every position. No team does, and no team ever has or will. We do, however, have game changers at the QB/WR positions, which are two of the most important positions on an NFL offense. We don’t need a top 5 TE and we sure as f*** shouldn’t spend a high pick on one. You also keep forgetting that we have Saunders as our #2, and he has a huge amount of upside.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
Ugggh… why do you have to bring him up?
I wish I could be granted executive power for 5 minutes for the Steelers, then 5 minutes for the NFL.
I’d cut Johnson and actually, literally kick his ass out the door, then when I switched to my NFL powers, I’d make Cleveland take him, and play him. Because that’s where he belongs, he’s their type of player
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I would agree he doesn’t have the seam speed like Graham or Hernandez, but he can run those routes. The Steelers’ offense just hasn’t used him in that way.
He can get open down the seam, maybe they’ll utilize him in that way a bit more this year.
I did say in my offensive draft analysis a week or two ago they may look into a TE in one of the earlier rounds, though. That’s not cuz Miller is a POS, it’s because having two of them would be nice. Who knows where Saunders will end up? Bring in another guy, create some competition.
I think they definitely will
Aside from Miller not being extremely athletic and on the back half of his career, Haley will want to find a quality 2nd or heir apparent. I’d watch for rounds 3-5.
You certainly like to think big, Mr. Hoover.
What are your thoughts on our needs at other positions? Probably gotta bring the next Aldon Smith in there because Woodley’s hamstring clearly shows he can’t hack it anymore, right?
Entire team needs to get young
Lot of work to do. Only set positions are QB, WR, C. LB is still a strength. Almost everyone else is getting old or less effective. It’s not about thinking big, it’s about thinking long-term.
You think long term every year
Of course they’re going to get younger, that’s why they have seven draft picks (before compensatory picks).
Right equals right, whether that’s young or old. What I mean by you thinking big is you are suggesting we need big upgrades at several positions – mostly if you think we need to upgrade our running back and our tight end, two higher level players, I’d say you’ve got some lofty expectations.
I think the back you’re looking for (that quick, shifty guy) is already on the roster. I think Miller can do just fine in the role he’s in, and the addition of a big field-stretching tight end only creates another receiver, and that isn’t our problem.
We need a better commitment to the run, and allow those receivers to work without such a obvious pass defense in their faces all the time.
What an expert diagnosis for such a poor performing team...
,Entire team needs to get young
. Forget the salary cap, the possibility that a player(s) had a down year, and those things called contracts; let’s just cut everyone and play with the rookies we draft, that way we’ll be the youngest team- sure to win a lot of games then!
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
I'm not saying forget the cap & contracts
But as of opening day this year, the Steelers had the oldest roster in the NFL, including the #1 oldest defense in the league. And it showed when they broke down at the end of the year. Not to mention all of the big contracts that players in the 2nd & 3rd deals get.
My point was, it’s time to cut the older guys who are eating up cap space and start making moves to get youth & speed on the roster. That also means maybe trading down several times in the draft in order to stockpile picks. The offensive line is in shambles outside of Pouncey, the secondary needs a quality starter AND depth, and the D-line is going to see 2-3 new starters this year. The team needs to rebuild/reload whatever you want to call it, but you’re not going to keep winning with the oldest team in the NFL, and I don’t know how you’re going to argue that you are.
Well, being that we’re so far over the cap, you won’t have to, because some of these vets are going bye-bye.
Yes, there will be vets who aren’t on the team next year, and that’s something that happens every year.
Simply cutting veterans does not get you under the cap, though. A chunk of that money still stays on the cap, and then you have to pay someone else. If you really want Sylvester or a rookie replacing James Farrior this year for a whopping $1 million of saved cap space, you’re more optimistic than I am in Sly and most younger players.
Average age
Assuming that Smith, Hoke and a couple of others will be gone before training camp, I wonder what our average age will look like this year.
Heck, I wonder what it was compared to other playoff teams when the playoffs started if you don’t count people on IR.
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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 8, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Starting day roster
A lot of people off that roster were essentially gone before the end of the season because they were on IR. Many will not make it back to training camp this year. Of the older player who do come back, some will only be back with reduced roles and reduced salaries. This will be a much younger team next year.
I expect the youth movement to focus on o-line, ilb, d-line and S. We have 3 young CBs who all look like they are going to play with Ike there to provide the vet leadership. Our d-line at the end of the play-offs was probably 9 or 10 years younger than the line that started the season. Our WRs will get younger because I expect one or more of Battle, Cotchery and Ward will be gone. The OLBs, with the exception of Deebo, are not old at all and the RBs are a young group other than Moore and Mendenhall (and Moore is almost certainly gone).
I will not be surprised to see 8 or more veterans (11 or 12?) gone as salary cap casualties or because they have been replaced by a younger player who can do the job just as well if not better.
This will not be an old team next year.
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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 8, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
But…the QB is in the back half of his career. and so are half the starters at LB
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
yes
but that doesn’t play to his narrative.
I do think we will get a young QB and at least one young ILB.
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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 8, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not to mention the guy will be 30 this year
Safe to say he’s peaked physically.
There is only one ball to go around
They don’t need a Vernon Davis type at TE, he will still be asked to block atleast as much as catch passes. You want a 1 dimensional TE when we have no need for one. Heath does everything that you can ask a TE to do and does it at a high level. The only downfall with him is speed which has no bearing on him because he isn’t needed for his speed, we have enough game breakers at WR. He’s perfect because he doesn’t ever need to come off the field, you won’t find a better blocker when he’s asked or a better reciever when asked and def not in the same player. There are more needs that need addressed early than a back-up TE. They tried this with Spaeth when they felt he was better than where he was drafted and let him walk after his first deal, Saunders has as much upside as a pure receiving TE that they would need to spend an unwarranted early selection on. TE is as solid a position as any on the team and I would even rather them get rid of Johnson and get a true blocking FB instead of another TE.
I'm not saying it's a huge priority
But it’s got to be a priority at some point. Miller is more than solid but Haley used 2 & 3 TE’s and behind Miller the cabinet is pretty bare.
I’m with you on getting an upgrade at FB.
Let’s keep in mind, too, if you want to add a fullback and add a tight end, that’s an additional roster spot that David Johnson (dirty cheap = cap friendly) is currently filling.
If you want a fullback and a highly drafted tight end, you’re getting rid of Ward (no room) and not signing Jerricho Cotchery (no money), and putting probably a rookie or a vet minimum roster-tomato at the 4th and 5th WR positions, if not low-level rookies. You may be able to get Ward to take a paycut to the vet’s minimum (a 50+ percent pay decrease), but still need a cheap receiver in there, and you lost a roster spot to the new fullback.
Do you cut a lineman, then? We were down to practice squad guys last year, and we’re already going to cut Kemoeatu, a veteran guard. That leaves two guards, and Trai Essex on the roster now. Two starting tackles and a back up, and a center. There’s your offensive line. Thin…
So what if David Johnson isn’t in a three-point stance in the backfield? He’s an H-back who can play on the line, or go in motion and lead block. If you’re going to go out and sign a fullback, you either sign an expensive one who can have more of a role than simply clearing out the 3-hole, or you draft one, and pay him nothing because he has no experience. Either way, Johnson’s role seems a bit redundant, so you’re cutting a player with three years experience and is still cheap to upgrade a position that, frankly, Mendenhall’s style doesn’t really fit all that great with anyway.
He’s a speed back who can get outside and get fast. He can run between the tackles, and he’s not bad at it, but I really don’t see the same huge boost in stats if he’s given a fullback the way everyone else seems to think.
Point of fact, too, the Steelers have started in a 2 TE set for a long time. Saunders will play more this year too. They have guys behind Miller, regardless of how many tight ends Haley rotated through. He can use what’s there now.
You do realize that Haley used 2 and 3 TE’s because he only had 1 receiver, right?
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
This
I'm getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
"It would be tough for me to care less about their opinion, to be honest with you." Mike Tomlin
Yeah it's got to be a priority at some point...
like maybe 4 years from now, when Heath is actually old. Or maybe 10 years from now if Saunders becomes what we think he will.
Ahhh he may be a homer but he is correct
I’m sure if you asked any player in the league about top tier TE’s, Heath Miller will be in the top ten. If you ask Joe Blow who sits on his couch crunching chips and fantasy numbers, he might not even know who Miller is.
yep.
even if you don’t like Mendy, Redman is pretty good starter.
"Kompromise, my friend, is the essence of diplomacy, and diplomacy is the kornerstone of love... sweeeeeet looooOOOve"
I think of Redman as a 1B RB
We can run Redman as a #1 till Mendy is healthy but I think he would take too much of a beating as a cowbell back. I think he would work best splitting the carries. It will keep him fresher and extend his career. I still feel sorry for Thomas Jones trying to pound his way to 100 yard games, 3.4 yards a carry or whatever it was.
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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 8, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Good to see little Haley bashing
I was afraid after all the dumb media speculation about Haley having conflicts with players that there’d be a dumber current worming into the conversation.
The thing that killed me with all that talk is if you have a rough season like KC had last season, you’re a screamer. But, if you win, you’re called fiery.
by theobserver on Feb 7, 2012 5:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Happy you’re pleased…much of the issue surrounding Haley on this site was not from last year alone.
And I don’t care what you call it, fiery, emotional, passionate, blah-blah-blah, you don’t see Dick Lebeau doing that. I’ll take his way as a model for success over Haley’s example any day. The results speak for themselves.
What was LeBeau like at Haley's age?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Does it have sound?....
Or just fancy written script shots?
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
So Bill Cowher's not a good coach because he yelled? Coughlin? Parcells?
By your logic, all coaches should be like Jim Caldwell and Old Man LeBeau.
No Bill Cowher isn’t a good coach because he lost 4 home championship games and only won 1
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I forgot that was all his fault
I mean, 53 other guys had nothing to do with it, right? Not to mention the opposing teams and coaches (gee, are you one of those Belicheat guys?)
Gotta disagree....
Cowher was an excellent coach who lost with bad QB’s. He lost with O’Donnell who was an average QB but not great. He lost 2 with Stewart who was NOT a good QB and by the way he lost those to Brady/Bledsoe and to Elway. He also lost with a rookie Big Ben who was hitting that rookie wall near the end of the season and was not playing as well. When he finally had a “good” QB (you know, a second year player in Big Ben), he won the SB. And then he retired, which was not a knock against Ben (someone mentioned that up above – not sure who), as he has remained retired…. Point is, different styles can be effective, it just comes down to preference.
I bet you said the same thing about Cowher
Point is what works for one doesn’t necessarily work for another. Cowher did fine as a screamer, just like Parcells and plenty of other coaches.
Looking for that passive image may be at the root of your bias.
I bet I didn’t. I honestly lost patience with Cowher a few years before he was fired (or…resigned…much like Arians retired)
I don’t know what you consider fine…but I consider 1-4 in HOME AFCCG’s to be not fine.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
But winning a road AFCCG doesn't impress you?
Or being the first team to ever win the SB as the 6 seed?
I'm not wild about the hiring
Mostly because I think we could have done better. But, I do think the Haley anger issues were overblown.
Where I see upside in the hiring is that Haley has shown to be flexible with the personnel he has. This is one area where I think Haley represents a clear upgrade over Arians. BA’s biggest shortcoming is that he had one gameplan and come hell or high water that was the gameplan, without regard to personnel, matchups, injuries, etc. Haley has shown a willing to take the personnel he has and try to maximize whatever talent it is they have.
The person who ought to be happiest is Rashard Mendenhall. Mendy is the type of multi-tool RB who should thrive with Haley at the helm.
As for Haley’s shortcomings, I have a hard time thinking that Tomlin and the Rooneys arrived at this decision without a firm belief that Haley could fit in to the organization as it is presently conceived.
Flexibility
If Haley can be flexible and bring the best out of the offense by creating and offense that suits our players, instead of forcing us to go out and replace them with new pieces, then I am looking forward to see what he can do.
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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 8, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
The mark of BA's tenure
Was a high-flying offense that could suddenly grind to a halt.
It’s the one thing I hated with Arians. Five receivers on first down, half the time with no motion and no bunching and no disguising anything. You go run and I’ll throw it to you.
Not an awful gameplan considering the personnel, but it ground to a halt every damned season as Ben got dinged and the OL slowly rotted away. And BA’s response? Throw it even some more! And less pass protection, too!
I struggle to believe that, from a gameplanning standpoint, opposing defensive co-ordinators were in fits over BA. Defending the Steelers was frankly starting to get too damned easy. Lock down Wallace, suffer the catches to Brown and keep Roethlisberger contained. Tackle Mendy should the ball accidentally end up in his hands. Don’t both anticipating a RB or TE screen — the Steelers only threw screens to the wideouts.
The simple fact that sometime in week on we will get to see Mendy on a screen is enough to justify, if not Haley’s hiring, at least BA’s firing.
you called Haley "little"
Meanie!
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 8, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Nice post Neal!
You make some really solid points, especially about what needs to be done on offense. If Haley can get Ben to have a bit more awareness when he drops back and maybe master just a couple more “hot read” plays to get out of trouble, I think he’ll be successful. Plus, we obviously need some draft help on the OL.
Really looking forward to the tweaks from the offence
I was mad at first because of Haley’s reputation and just the way he was on the sideline of games i saw, but after it settled in, i’m actually kind pumped about this.
Welcome home Todd Haley. Let this be prosperous for many years to come!
Welcome Todd Haley!
What is their plan? Good question. Anyone have any info on the length of the contract?
Whatever it’s duration is, this year I really am looking forward to seeing our offense!
Go Redman!
"They timed it perfectly, they just went too soon." - Darrell Waltrip commenting on an illegal restart.
Looking forward to the change
I hope Haley has grown up and grown wiser in the last year. No matter the particulars, he has been knocked down a peg and that should always provide for some self-reflection. Rightly or wrongly, Pioli excused him in KC and that always hurts. This and the fact that he is coming back to Pittsburgh should fill him with resolve and also the knowledge that people who know him are looking. More dignity and class may accompany his energy and desire to succeed.
Football-wise, he has a decent breadth of experience and should provide some much needed change in game planning, personnel and their usage, and tactical play calling. The Steelers will be more unpredictable simply because they have a new OC working with new personnel to him.
I’m also hoping he can add some expertise on the NE offense as it relates to our defense stopping them. He was a part of it so he has incite to their philosophies and methods.
"Franz" in NoCal
He was a part of it so he has incite to their philosophies and methods.
What do you mean? He was never involved in anything NE did. (although he saw them twice a year as a Jets asstn
Strangely, at one point, I too was convinced he worked for NE at some point. I think association had me think “Pioli-Haley….must have NE ties”
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
He broke into the league and coached with a bunch of NE guys
Parcells, Pioli, Weiss, Crennel, Mangini, etc.
from everything I hear about Haley, he's kind of a jerk who is hard to play for and get along with. I can't see how this is going to end well.
Don't believe everything you hear
His players love him, even if he has to be a dick to motivate them. Fitzgerald credits Haley with making him the receiver he is today. Dwayne Bowe, Derrick Johnson, Steve Breaston, Kurt Warner – all these guys have spoken very highly of him, even though Haley was extremely hard on them.
Read Kurt Warner interview
Changed my mind about Haley
Now I am cautiously optimistic
Not necessarily. I have no idea what it’s like to work with Haley, but I can’t trust over half of what I hear about him, or any other individual for that matter.
The only people who really know probably won’t tell. You think Warner and Fitz want to burn bridges? Or at least bad mouth a guy when it would reflect badly on them (nobody likes you speaking ill of other coaches)? Conversely, those that have an ax to grind find multiple opportunities to spread rumors of his disposition.
Both sides are probably highly exaggerated. This article, which you’ve already read, is relevant.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12039/1208718-87-0.stm
The part that gets me about Haley is that he’s never played. This could be a bone of contention in camp and practice. I don’t know how that is viewed in the NFL among players. Is it an issue? Maybe with the players he’s had friction with used that as fuel. I also question the fact that his dad had such success with the steelers, that he is going to try almost too hard, or push himself and players to equal that success. Having said that, I’m sure Tomlin and LeBeau discussed which offenses gave the steelers’ defense trouble, and AZ and KC did in fact make it difficult..
We Will See
To me that is what the plan is. Here are my benchmarks for what ever plan is made for the next five years.
5 Straight Winning Seasons.
Minimum of 3 Division Titles
Minimum 2 SB Appearances
Minimum 1 SB Win
I think this is a fair ask. These are the only numbers I am looking at to look at this move as a success or failure.
Just an off the wall thought.....
One of the local papers posted his resume on their website. It looks his average time with an organization is 2-3 years. Could there be a line of thinking that he will come here to shake things up. And if he is successful, great, if not then just see if Kirby or Fitch is ready? Just wondering because normally the Rooney’s look for long term solutions,but could they (Art II) be trying something new?
that's typical of younger coaches
I wouldn’t read much into that. Assistants have to change if the HC loses his job for one, and I’m pretty sure he’d still be the OC of AZ if he hadn’t been offered a head coaching job. Whiz was singing his praises when asked about the job he did there.
Haley's new plan
How about scoring more points and running the system instead of sandlot football?
I’m very happy with this hire because I think Ben NEEDS someone like Haley to get him to work more within the play called to reduce his hits. If he can improve on getting rid of the ball faster and throwing an occasional check down then he might make another 7 or 8 years. If he continues playing like he has into his 30’s then he’ll be done within 3. I’d guess that’s a major reason Rooney wanted the change (along with us scoring about as often as a nerd at a frat party). I’m sure they’ll clash at times, but I also think there’s an untapped area of greatness in Ben that Haley can bring out. Warner gave him a ringing endorsement, and I’m sure he wouldn’t have if the guy didn’t know what he was doing.
I also love how Haley can adapt to his personnel in the run or pass game (he actually uses a FB). He doesn’t have to run more, but what a novel concept it would be to run from pass formations and pass from run formations on occasion! No more empty set on 3rd and 3… I guess I’m just looking forward to see what this offense can do with a competent OC after years of Arians and his sand lot program.
Wait just a gosh darn minute there Gilbert...
(along with us scoring about as often as a nerd at a frat party).

United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
As I remember...
Terry Bradshaw and Chuck Noll were not best of friends. Bradshaw turned out pretty well.
by Steeler Nation VA on Feb 8, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
On Ben's comments
Getting tired of hearing this. Ben did exactly what any good professional employee in a leadership position should do when they don’t know what their boss is expecting of them. They ASK.
Haley is a freaking awesome hire, assuming he doesn’t try to rewrite the entire offense’s playbook from a terminology standpoint.
I’m totally stoked for next season.
You go to your boss quietly, not your boss’ boss’ boss after anouncing it to the entire company that you are not happy.
OK – Tomlin is the boss not Art Rooney.
by Steeler Nation VA on Feb 8, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
did you see the interview?
Sorry, if a $100,000,000.00 Employee, can’t ask the owner of a company to clarify what he is supposed to be doing, then either the employee is an overpaid idiot or the owner is a d-bag. We know that neither is the case. Quit trying to create drama where there is none.
Do you think Crosby picks up a phone and calls Bylsma to make sure it’s ok if he shouts across the street to ask Mario if the Mail man has shown up yet?
Get over yourself. Rooney, Roethlisberger and Tomlin work with each other. They should be allowed to talk. Didn’t you ever play the relay message game in kindergarden?
by masterblastor on Feb 8, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
They asked him a question
he answered it, stop making it like ben sought it out.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Feb 9, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
The Plan?
I hope the plan is to stay aggressive…bring more tempo and urgency to the offense. I would, like othere suggested, see us run more out of passing sets…and for Gods sake, throw more to the RB’s, more dump offs.
Also…how about better clock management inside two minutes? Spiking the ball in the right situation and calling a timeout in right situations. How about being less predictable?
I was not a BA hater and more often than not, defended him. But, since Haley is here I’m actually excited about it. Hopefully he makes the offense a little sharper, more crisp…I do like his aggressive nature and would hope that attitude rubs off on the offense.
Summary...
Based upon what I have read here the attitude starts with the FO then through Tomlin and so on. BA didn’t fit that mold. I’m not sure any other QB that wasn’t an elite QB could of survived BA Scheme. The bottom line is with regards to certain position players is a wait and see situation. It starts with the OL ( passing and running). Until they have an attitude that we don’t care you know what we are going to do you still have to stop us from doing what we will do nothing will matter. Outside 2 maybe 3 players on the OL that attitude is MIA and has been since Arian’s scheme was fully implemented. Ben doesnt need to throw 40+ times a game to have a stellar season… He need to have time to connect on 30 passes a game being more accurate and efficient.. but to do that he needs a vastly improved line with a nasty attitude from the starters through the backups… Same goes for any RB we have (all capable of reaching 1000 yrds in a season). In some ways I suspect this team to resemble the Cardinals (SB yr) in terms of the offense but even THEY had a much better line than we did at any point the past two seasons. We won because or D and Ben willed it – PERIOD. Not because Arians scheme. Once Ben scrambles – its back yard football not a schemed play.
IMO having a double headed TE threat would take pressure off of the offensive line. Heath always has to stay in to block, same with Mendenhall, but isn’t one of the best ways to reduce pressure quick passes to the TE and RB?
Ben and BA got to be to good of friends and the Steelers seen this and it was slowing down the offense and BA was not going to improve Ben’s QB play and there is always room for improvement and Ben could use some, So Haley will push Ben to be a great QB and make better decisions on his reads. We have 4 good WR that can be the best WR corp in the league and 1 and possibly 2 (Saunders) TE’s so there has to be someone open at all times they cannot double everyone and use the running game when not so predictable when to run and what happened to the screen play with the RB we have and no more 10 bubble screens a game. We need to be great not good.
Good Hire in Haley
I like the hiring of haley and hope that he is mean. Mean coaches make you work harder. Ben should understand that all of your team mates should get some shine. I do not see him lighting up the score board passing. The run game needs to be geared up. That being said the Steelers should primarily draft 1. Guard 2. Cornerback (Minnifield @ Virginia) 3. Tackle 4. Running Back that hits the hole and has speed 5. Line backer 6. Nose Tackle. If the Steelers do no get a corner in the draft they will not win the Super Bowl. Notice I said they will not win it.

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