Salary Cap Issues: What Decisions Are The Steelers Faced With in 2012, Part I
With the releases of CB Bryant McFadden and WR Arnaz Battle, the Steelers are taking their first steps toward getting their top 51 players under the salary cap by the start of the 2012 league season - March 13.
Other moves will certainly be coming, but there are several options the team could pursue by that date.
In part I of this two part series, we'll dive into the looming cuts expected within the roster, and some projections for restricted free agency.
Smith's Decision
There are two choices, both between the team and Aaron Smith. After an outstanding career in Pittsburgh, Smith could decide to hang them up. The team would then eat the remaining balance of his contract, but not the whole thing, and save around $1 million.
Option 2 is a bit more blunt (but at least as realistic). If Smith doesn't retire, he won't play for the Steelers next year. The time and money they've sunk into the defensive line came through most of last season, and young players like Cam Heyward and Ziggy Hood have nowhere to go but up. It would, perhaps, be ideal to have a healthy Smith play through a farewell tour in 2012, provide adequate amount of playing time and continue to foster the development of the younger players. The financial reality is his physical condition makes him too much of a liability to risk paying that much, and a reduced salary may not be of any benefit, should he get hurt again.
Pay Reductions
The Steelers will also ask some guys to take paycuts. WR Hines Ward said he would, and is under contract for one more year. Getting him down to the veteran minimum would save another $1 million and change, and regardless of his stats from 2011 (under former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians), he can still contribute as the team's 4th receiver. WR Jerricho Cotchery is a value guy, not a necessary guy, and likely won't be back in 2012, judging by the current cap predictions of around $120 million.
NT Casey Hampton tore his ACL Jan. 8 at Denver. That means the 35-year-old began the rehabilitation process in 2012, and the likelihood of making a full recovery in the same calendar year at his age (let alone conditioning issues) is very low. Nine months is the typical stated recovery time for a torn ACL - even if you don't factor in the time to get back into shape after that many months of relative inactivity, Hampton would have to exceed expectations if he'll be ready to play by Week 1. He likely does not have much of a choice but to take a pay reduction and start the year on the physically-unable-to-perform (PUP) list. That would give the Steelers a roster exemption to keep Hampton there until he's able to play.
With James Farrior and Larry Foote - the current buck linebackers - it seems at least one of them will have to take a paycut to stay in town. The Steelers could decide to cut one and reduce the contract of the other, but the main concern with this is depth. The buck is the quarterback of the defense - the guy who makes the pre-snap adjustments at the line. The Steelers will not find anyone this year more experienced and ready to play the position in this regard than Farrior or Foote, so the release of either of them will hurt this team on the field in the short run. It's something that likely has to be done though, so expect the Steelers to find someone in this year's draft to groom for the spot in 2013.
Contract Restructures
OLB LaMarr Woodley and ILB Lawrence Timmons have agreed to contract restructures, which will provide some needed relief (exact figures were not released, per the Post-Gazette).
While the Post-Gazette reported they may look into restructuring the contracts of SS Troy Polamalu and QB Ben Roethlisberger, it seems more likely that Roethlisberger's contributions to the cap issue could come in the form of an extension. If he agrees to tack on another two years to his current deal and spreads the money due to him in that time frame a bit more evenly, he'll get more in the end and help keep the team financially viable so he can continue winning (he has to be aware that it'll be hard to compete with the amount of rookie and veteran minimum guys the Steelers will need to sign if money doesn't get freed up). Now that Patriots QB Tom Brady has been to five Super Bowls and Giants QB Eli Manning has won his second, Roethlisberger knows he's got some work to do.
March 13 and Restricted Free Agency
Some combination/variation of those moves would probably get them to the point where the top 51 guys are under the cap - required by March 13.
March 13 is also when restricted free agency begins, concerning players whose contracts have expired but who have no more than three years of experience.
The Steelers restricted free agents are WR Mike Wallace, TE David Johnson, LG Doug Legursky, RG Ramon Foster, CB Keenan Lewis, and FS Ryan Mundy.
Restricted free agents are allowed to pursue offers from other teams, but depending on the level tendered by their current team, the new team must provide a draft pick as compensation. That compensation is based on the following scale:
- First Round (highest tender), $2.742 million
- Second Round, $1.927 million
- Original Round/Right of First Refusal $1.26 million
The highest level tender used to be for a first and third round pick, but that level no longer exists under the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Each of the Steelers' restricted free agents will receive one of the top three tender offers. Steel City Insider's Jim Wexell estimates the total amount tendered to those six players will be around $7.75 million, so the Steelers will need to do restructuring and releasing beyond simply becoming compliant with the cap. The amount of room those additional cuts will provide depends on the structure of the contracts: some players are owed a certain amount of money if they are still on the roster on the first day of the new league year, meaning that they would have to be cut before March 13 (like McFadden and Battle); others are owed certain money if they are on the roster a few days after the start of the new league year.
With that, it's likely that LG Chris Kemoeatu and S Will Allen will be released in order to free up money for the restricted free agents.
Part II will deal with some of the specific tactics used in restricted free agency, as well as a potential candidate for a contract extension.
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This is part of the job....
…that ought to make the multitudes in Steeler Nation who wish they had such a job, or believe they can “do it better” think twice.
This is the hardest part of management; balancing performance vs cost vs cost of replacement and drop in production, all overlaid with a level of emotion, loyalty, and sense of family that doesn’t normally exist in an organization. I don’t envy the FO the task they face, and the angst they will go through to make some of these decisions (e.g. Ward vs Cotchery).
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Feb 9, 2012 10:57 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed - Just doing THAT part of the job in Madden Franchise Mode is tough
And you don’t have to consider “extra” factors such as humanity, team spirit, reputation, attractiveness to FAs, etc.
Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH
by Flying Polamalus on Feb 9, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Yep. Always the worst part of Madden
when I get to like 2014 and I have to decide to cut two of the following to stay in the cap: Woodley, Harrison, Pouncey, Polamalu, Mendenhall
Brutal. Now imagine having to walk up to a guy like Harrison who poured his blood, sweat, tears, and cash into building the Steelers into what they are and telling him you don’t have the money to keep him
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by seton hall and steelers on Feb 9, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
My nine year old son...
…finds it hilarious that I’m even scared of Deebo’s picture in Madden 10, a fun fiction I use to instill into him the fear of the Steelers (he’s a Jaguars fan, because of MJD).
Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH
by Flying Polamalus on Feb 10, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Seems...
(he’s a Jaguars fan, because of MJD).
…a home DNA test kit might be in order – lol !
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
by PaVaSteeler on Feb 10, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
My wife's a Packer fan, you do the DNA math :-))
Of course, I’d never allow any thoughts of Raven, Cowboy or Raider fandom entering my home, that’s where I draw the line.
Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH
by Flying Polamalus on Feb 13, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
Lol. There got to a point in my franchise mode (I think it was after the 14th season, just as Ben retired) that I just couldn’t do anything. Started off like 35 million over the cap, even with the 21 million that came off because of Ben’s retirement. That was about the 5th straight season I had been in cap trouble, but that season, it was just too much. I still don’t know exactly what I did so wrong, because I only had like 4 “high paid” guys on the team. I think I got myself some cap penalties.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
It's the contract structures
Madden is maddening because it WONT let you decide how to structure a contract. The money is already backloaded, which is what usually happens in real life. But you can’t determine the percentage of the bonus, which is how teams really skirt the cap.
Plus league minimum veteran pay raises too which I think makes your whole lineup more expensive anyway.
But yeah in Madden if you keep signing guys to 7 year contracts one day they’ll all come home to roost and it’s gonna suck.
I did that at first (7 year contracts) for all the players I really wanted to keep till they retired (Woodley, Polamalu, a few others) But after that, by about the 5th season or so, I started giving out different length contracts to try to avoid having so many become free agents in the same year. but yeah…I suck at that part.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I have no choice but to wheel and deal anyone
…who won’t take what I offer, just in order to manage. Most of the time, I end up feeling dirty when I do that to the Steelers, because the draft pick stockpiling and brutal handling of beloved vets makes me feel like Bellicheat.
Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH
by Flying Polamalus on Feb 10, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
I end up feeling dirty when I do that to the Steelers
LOL, I know what you mean. But at a certain point, it’s either make some deals, or start over. This particular time, I wanted to play through Ben’s entire career. I don’t think I ever went farther than the 5th season before.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Man our FO is good
Every year it seems we struggle to get under the cap and people worry about it. But every year we find guys willing to restructure their contracts, we cut the necessary folks, and we find guys willing to step in for a good price.
Our FO never ceases to amaze me when it comes to this. It’s such a delicate and intricate system. Cyril FIggis probably couldn’t handle this stuff but somehow the Rooneys do.
Props to our FO, I am in no way concerned about the cap this year. And hopefully soon it’ll go way up and we can make some more moves.
by Mechem on Feb 9, 2012 10:58 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Archer reference!
Are you on Facebook? Have you connected with BTSC's page yet? You should.
by barnerburner on Feb 9, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Just caught archer for the first time this week
And it has immediately shot up my charts to near “arrested development status”
Agreed
That’s a bold statement, Mr. Lloyd, one so powerful I’m gonna look into this show based on your indirect recommendation.
“Yeah, the guy in the $3,500 suit’s gonna push the elevator button…C’MON!!!!”
I wouldn’t put it up there with AD but it is a dang good show.
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
Less than Kind
There is a locally produced show that I like called “Less than Kind”. It may be an acquired taste.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 9, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Well
I think AD is awesome but the plots can get a little repetitive, usually one family member screws another over and then has a mini epiphany that doesn’t last more than two episodes. Granted all the parts of it are hilarious but I find the overall show itself lacks a little something in the flow of an episode.
A lot of AD’s actors have gotten into Archer too. Tobias was in a 3 part series, Jessica Walters is awesome as ISIS head Mallory Archer, Judy Greer plays Cheryl in Archer and her character is awesome and has developed well.
I really enjoy the variety of situations and the subplots and running jokes are epic. Archer is the best thing on TV at the moment, and IMO in my life it’s in the top 5 shows I’ve ever watched. Breaking Bad takes the top spot though.
I agree with you about Breaking Bad. It is definitely my favorite show ever, with the Walking Dead in second. After that I’d say It’s Always Sunny, then American Dad, and maybe Archer in 5th. I also agree that while AD is funny, it is somewhat over-hyped, kinda like The Godfather is. Oh well, time to go get destroyed and watch Archer on Netflix ;)
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
Breaking Bad is fantastic, and I am a big Archer fan, and Arrested Development is maybe the funniest show ever. But if I have to rank my all time favorite shows, there is no question The Wire is number one.
I must be missing something with Always Sunny. I’ve tried watching that show about ten times, I can’t even crack a smile at anything that goes on there.
BTW, there is no way the Godfather can be over rated.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I’m with you on Always Sunny. I think it’s one of those shows where everyone I know loves it, and I got in on it after the hype. There are funny parts but mostly it’s just kinda pointless to me.
Unfortunately, The Wire is like Always Sunny. I got it way overhyped for too long, and I watched the first season without really having any desire to watch the second. Maybe I will some day.
Sons of Anarchy was also hugely overhyped, but I absolutely love that show.
I’ve never watched Breaking Bad, but need to at some point.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 10, 2012 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
Saving Breaking Bad to watch until after Season 5
Currently, I got myself into watching Rome while waiting for The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones (!, if you are into that sort of thing) to come back. Needed to find something after Chuck ended.
But yeah, I agree on Always Sunny, and still have not made it around to The Wire.
Any Curb Your Enthusiasm fans here?
"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."
-- so says Rex Ryan.
The Wire was pretty much the same for me as well. I watched the first season, and it’s not bad, but I kind of felt like the hype was too much. I may watch it again sometime down the road.
I love Sons of Anarchy as well, but I’m actually not aware of the hype surrounding this one, because no one I know personally watches it.
As far as Breaking Bad..you should give it a shot. I don’t want to get the hype machine’s gears going too hard for you though.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Yeah, Breaking Bad is certainly up there. What’s weird about that show is, the first three seasons were really freaking good, but the fourth season just blew those away. And that is not a knock on the first three, just that four was out of this freaking world
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Of course, you have to argue with everything I say don’t you?
Just kidding. But I don’t know, I loved three, but four was like….monumental…splendiferous, supertacular..
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Samauri Jack and Invader Zim...
…my top two favorites.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
the buck
“The buck is the quarterback of the defense, and many adjustments are made at the line by this position.”
does this have to be the case? excuse my ignorance of the workings of the lebeau defense, but why couldn’t a different player/position call the defense? with some mock drafts predicting hightower as the first pick, it would seem illogical to stick with this notion.
does this have to be the case?
No, and I think you’re touching on a very interesting story of this offseason. In the Steelers’ current defense, making those adjustments and providing zone/gap run defense and coverage is the role of the buck linebacker.
If they changed their defense up this offseason (I’m feeling stronger about the possibility each day), it could make for an easier transition at that spot. Doesn’t need to be anything revolutionary, but they can mix things up a bit more than usual.
wasn’t it last year that the powers were debating the use of a miked helmet for the captain of the defense? what ever happened to that idea?
it just seems that there are enough experienced players on the defensive side of the ball that someone other than foote or farrior could make such calls. it’s one thing to milk a few extra years out of a great player- it’s another to keep playing that player even if he’s lost too many steps because he’s the only one who can make adjustments at the line.
by SamTheButcher on Feb 9, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
They’ve had mikes in the defensive captain’s helmet for a few years now. Farrior uses it for the Steelers. I haven’t thought to check, but I believe Foote is the other one. Only certain players can use it, and it’s something assigned before every game.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 10, 2012 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks, Neal
Will Part II take on who – or whether – to franchise?
Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH
by Flying Polamalus on Feb 9, 2012 11:23 AM EST reply actions
Something has to be done with Hampton
Draft a NT early and ask Hampton to restructure. If not, we have to cut ties. We can’t afford him.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
+1
Ta’amu or Poe. if we wait any longer and lose both of them we’ll be in real trouble at NT next season.
by steel.curtain.number2 on Feb 9, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Haley intro going on right now
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
Haley seemed to say the right things...
…especially when asked about offensive systems – his answer was its not about systems, its about winning.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
The vaugeness was mine...
…he went on, and in response to another question, to talk about fitting plays to the players, not making the players fit the plays.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Neal almost had me convinced that Haley would be a bad hire with his article last week….but I’ll trust the Steelers on these decisions just about every time.
My comment wasn’t a reflection on my thought of him as a coach, it was just expressing humor over a classic question-dodge.
What he’s saying is he’s not going to go over schematic details in a press conference, but he’s going to put a winning team on the field.
understood
I usually trust your insight and opinions which is why I wasn’t thrilled with the hire.
but if he does indeed “fit plays to the players, not making the players fit the plays” then I think he’ll be starting off on the right foot
I usually trust your insight and opinions
I wouldn’t necessarily recommend that.
Yes, you’re exactly right, if he’s gonna draw up a scheme based on what he has, then great. I would have said that about anyone. I think having an offensive system that travels with you like those weirdos who take their pillows with them on trips, you’re missing out on a lot of things.
p.s. I’m nominating “Will The Colts Have Peyton Manning Killed?” as Headline of the Year, mostly because of the large handgun right below it. I nearly fell off my chair laughing.
I can think of one recently departed OC...
Yes, you’re exactly right, if he’s gonna draw up a scheme based on what he has, then great. I would have said that about anyone.
…to whom this would not apply!
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
The standard is the standard, anyone?
Fly by night, away from here
Change my life again
Fly by night, goodbye my dear
My ship isn't coming and I just can't pretend
RUSH
by Flying Polamalus on Feb 10, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
Also
On topic, they just restructured Timmons and freed up $5 million
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
No link yet
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 9, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Link to Post-Gazette - Woodley/Timmons restructuring 2nd story on 1st pg of link
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12040/1209038-66.stm
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Well, excuuuuussssseeee meeeeee for helping

United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
lol
Sorry, I was just pointing to the link in the story as well. It won’t have that $5 million figure though, so it’s good to get it all out there
Anne a mel ma hey
"you will hardly know who I am or what I mean"-Walt Whitman
by Pittsblitz56 on Feb 9, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
downside
to all the restructuring is that you’re increasing the amount of bonus money those players get.
if you need to cut them prior to their final year, due to injury or off the field issues, that bonus money hits the cap in a huge lump sum. Essentially we’re doubling down on these guys playing through their contracts.
true.
but they’re safe bets to make with Timmons and Woodley. both have been very durable so far in their careers.
by steel.curtain.number2 on Feb 9, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
True == Two concerns
The one major concern is that if someone does not see the end of the contract you take the hit. Maybe the only on in Jeopardy there is Harrison but you never know. Just seems like we have restructured more contracts recently than in the past.
I also think certain players should be locked up now to long term deals (such as Brown, C. Allen, C. Lewis, and others) Allen needs another year to show his improvement. My thought there is that we are told there will be a big jump in the cap for 2013. However, we are already baking that into our calculations withthe restructures. I am wondering of other teams are going to have tons of cash for FA in 2013 and we could lose some key guys.
However, I do have faith in our front office. Colbert, Khan, Rooney, Tomlin, and the others have played this dance better than all but maybe one or two teams over the past 10 years.
Why would we want to lock Brown in now? He doesn’t have any free agent rights until after next year.
yea. too early for most of those guys
Wallace and Lewis will be tendered this year, with maybe Wallace getting a long term deal if theres time/cap space. as for the Browns and Allen, they’re still on their rookie contracts and the Steelers have a history of not re-upping until the rookie contracts are done. if Woodley can wait, these guys can wait too.
by steel.curtain.number2 on Feb 9, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
+1
It’s been one year for Brown. Let’s see if he can do it again, then he can talk. Wallace had to do the same thing. Timmons started for two years before he got an extension. Woodley for three.
Keep him at the cheap, let’s see how he handles success before they drive a dump truck full of cash to his door.
Chris Carter, James Harrison, Ivy Mortty, Sylvester Stevenson, L. Timmons, L. Woodley, J. Worilds, ( B. Hicks, M. McFadden) cant see both Farrior and Foote making the squad Buck backers or not.. Frankly, rather have a young guy starting, do we have both Worilds and Stevenson sitting the bench?.. someones gotta step up..
Im not sure I would want to release Allen, both are safies are up in age, would prefer to keep the safty net of Allen, and Mundy, (with Rolle in training) and not make safty a priority in this years draft..
Couldnt agree more about Kemo, and after some thought, I dont think Essex will be back, he’s a versitle Olineman but, his contract is up and very unlikely signing him will be cap friendly….
A. Smith, Hines, Farrior… I appeciate everything theyve contributed, I just dont see how youth doesnt trump their need on the roster…
Whom ever we draft in the first, (ILB-DT/NT-G) Id rather throw him to the wolves and play him snap one…..
Stevenson Sylvester….ha ha….I bet nobody ever gets his name right. I liked what we saw of him— but that was mostly pre-season. I wonder if he could step in and start
i’ve heard the Steelers are very high on Chris Carter (I think it was Bouchette who said it on the radio a couple weeks back). he said they like his upside more than Worilds.
He’ll be a good one to watch in camp. Looked far more aggressive than Worilds. Quicker. Just really small, and not very strong.
I don’t remember it too well, but I can’t imagine Harrison was any different. I’d be happy to read that Carter was working out with Harrison in at least two of the five sessions Harrison lifts each day.
only 5?
hes been slacking usually he has at least 8. what a crappy work ethic just cut the guy already.
by steel.curtain.number2 on Feb 9, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Lifting dead Volkswagons takes some skill
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 9, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Especially with the hippies still in them
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
heh
A friend of mine wrote a punk toon called “dead hippies”. It was very funny. I don’t think he has it online anywhere.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 9, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
Is your buddy Eric Cartman, or related to him?
Pittsburgh Steelers fan - nuff said.
Miami Hurricanes fan - nuff said.
Georgetown Hoyas fan - nuff said.
Cleveland Cavaliers fan - um yeah, about that...
by StoneColdSteel on Feb 11, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
lol
I don’t know if he even watches that and he definitely isn’t Cartman. He loves hockey, music and his wife and I am afraid to ask in what order.
I found the song on his myspace page but the vocals in the recording are far too quiet so it is difficult to hear what he is singing. I don’t know how old the song is but I first heard it over 20 years ago. I will talk to him about posting the link. It’s been a very long time since I posted anything but since all I post is filler and since there has been a lot of interesting, well written and thoughtful stuff, I will wait till things are dead before I put anything up.
anyone trying to contact me via my yahoo account should be aware it has been hacked
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Feb 12, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Great article-
Omar Khan is possibly going to take a GM position this year as reported by NFL network he has been approached by the Rams organization for the GM pos.
Impose your will.
Essex, CHris K are gonners
Allen will also get cut- but should the Steelers need tocut one of 2 ILB’s I think they will turn and take one in the 2nd or 3rd rounds as a must. Do you think Timmons can QB the D? And what about WOrilds and Sylveswter taking up the slack?
The oline seems to haunt me nightly- I would love to see them free up some space to sign a veteran C/G adn then draft one in the 1st or second. The real issue is who replaces Hampton? He will not be ready for opening day and Hoke is retired. Hood may lack the size and instinct to penetrate and i see him as a vback up to Haywood and Keisel. Not sure how they will address this issue.
Impose your will.
My view is
we really need to trade off late rounders and get 3 bonifide starters this year…honestly, should be easy, just due to the depth at our 3 primary position needs….. ILB-DT/NT-G…
We need immediate starters….this is a great yr for us to get them…
by OR69faithfull on Feb 9, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
You gotta keep in mind, though, even the great future first-ballot Hall of Fame SS Troy Polamalu struggled his rookie year. When you’re that young, it’s far more about knowledge than physical talent. Asking a team to draft three guys anywhere in the draft who can come in and perform better game in and game out than those who were before him is crazy, and it won’t happen.
This is without question Colbert’s most difficult offseason. I get that you’re against guys like Farrior and Foote because they’re old, but their impact on a game is mostly felt through their teammates. Foote and Farrior make the guys around them better, even if they aren’t themselves the greatest players on the team.
Some will agree with me, some won’t, but knowledge and experience are critical at that position. You can’t just get rid of that because a guy is younger than he is. If there was someone who was capable of playing that position at a reasonable level, I may agree with you, but we do not have that guy right now, and we cannot play a rookie there.
Disagree.
Maurkice Pouncey came in year one and dominated. Kendrell Bell came in year one and dominated. Casey Hampton came in year one and dominated. Ben Roethlisberger came in year one and dominated. Lamar Woodley came in year one and dominated. Antonio Brown, Mike Wallace, Cam Heyward, and even Cortez Allen, all played well their first year.
Young players are going to make mistakes. But they are also going to make big time plays with their athleticism. Old players don’t make as many mistakes but they are greatly lacking in the big play department. That is what killed us this year. We march Hampton and Smith onto the field and then wonder why don’t get sacks. We put Farrior and Foote out there because they know the defense sooooooo well and then wonder why we get torched by opposing running backs.
Remember any rookie taking the field is going to be surrounded/supported by talent. If we plug in a rookie NT he’s going to be flanked by two first round picks (Hood, Heyward) and a pro bowler (Kiesel). If we plug in a rookie ILB he’s going to be flanked by a first rounder (Timmons) and a second rounder (Woodley). If we plug in a rookie OG he’s going to be flanked by a second rounder (Gilbert) and pro-bowl first rounder (Pouncey).
The sooner these rookies take the field the sooner they will get over the growing pains and master they playbook. Cordy Glenn LG, Bobby Wagner ILB, Josh Chapman NT, could ALL contribute/rotate in immediately. Rooney said last year he wants our rookies to see the field sooner. This year, Heyward, Gilbert, Allen, Brown all saw the field and all performed well. I think Rooney will get his wish this year as well.
by StarSpangledSteeler on Feb 9, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
On the contrary, Casey Hampton did not dominate in his first year. Neither did LaMarr Woodley (he barely played more than 50 snaps, if even that), Antonio Brown, Cam Heyward, neither in the dominating category their rookie years. How was Cortez Allen a “dominant” player? Methinks your black and gold glasses are a mite thick.
There are exceptions to rules, but Pouncey and to an extent, Ben, are really the only offensive ones, and Bell is the only defensive one, and that was in a different overall defensive philosophy (Tim Lewis did not run the same defense as Lebeau).
Suggesting younger players are the only guys who can make plays based on athleticism is sort of short-sighted. Polamalu isn’t a “young” NFL player, he certainly makes plays all the time. And if what you’re saying was unilaterally true, why don’t rookies start across the board on every team?
Which other players “flank” the rookies is irrelevant. A zone blitz is a very intricate plan based on deception. To achieve that, everyone must know their responsibilities and hide them until the final second. The guy orchestrating all of those movements on the field in Lebeau’s defense is the buck linebacker. He calls out adjustments to all three defensive units (DL, LB, secondary). To be able to understand all the nuances of each of those positions takes time to learn. You’re grossly underrating the difficulty of learning all of that while at the same time learning to adjust to a speed of the game they have not come close to experiencing yet, as well as being fully immersed in terminology and scheme from coaches they barely know.
I don’t recall anyone in the Steelers organization ever saying as a mandate they want rookies to play more, but I think his point was he wants to see them develop into great players as soon as they can. Who doesn’t want to see that? I just see the best way to do that is what the Steelers have done; bring them along at the pace they’re ready for, and nothing more than that.
If we draft a guy who’s ready to start on defense on Day 1, then great. If you’d like to make a wager on whether that will happen, I’d be happy to set something up.
Well
without reading into both the above posts….
My view is…. draft the ILB 1st start him, I dont care if he makes mistakes, those mistakes will offset both Farriors and Footes lack of ability and age, if that means Timmons has to be mack back for part the year, so be it…
Guard is an instant toss him in and get playing time as is DT/NT…its not exactly rocket science plugging the run, or run/pass blocking IF we trade off lower round picks for legit starters of higher caliber at those positions which this draft is uniquely suited to do, and as such gives us lots of options to dumb cap heavy veterans… comes a time for better or worse where you need to move to a youthful lineup, and this seems the perfect year to move in that direction…..
by OR69faithfull on Feb 9, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think a guard or a nose could play right away
I don’t think an ILB could. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t draft one, but I’m telling you, the defense will suffer a great deal if someone with little experience starts there on day 1.
well....
a guy whom can cover….. cant be worse then watching Farrior or Foote… and there is a kid you know whom has called the D for his current college team… Von Miller( i know he’s OLB) did a fine job as a rookie…. part of putting a rookie LB on the field and having success is having veterans beside and behind them… and we have that… Hardest part is judging how much Stevenson has progressed… but… you either gotta play him at ILB this year, or draft someone whom can play ILB this year… the day’s of Foote and Farrior has passed….
by OR69faithfull on Feb 9, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
If Farrior and Foote were such gaping liabilities in coverage, why were the Steelers the league’s best pass defense unit? Why did they hold opponents to less than 10 points in nearly every game down the stretch?
It’s because you can’t ask any linebacker to consistently cover Ray Rice and Vernon Davis without help and expect great results. Farrior’s not the same player he was, but he didn’t play as badly as you’re suggesting.
I would
argue that our ILB’s pass coverage was near the worst in the league…and those stats metioned skewed toward the rest of our D’s pass coverge….
by OR69faithfull on Feb 9, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
well....
make it a Rogue River ale then…..lol….. or at least a Yuengling that I cant get in Oregon…
by OR69faithfull on Feb 9, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose
it was glaringly obvious to me this year watching both of them, how they couldnt fight off a RB to make a tackle and got plowed over most all year long, as well as being nothng more the pass complete zone coverage backers… just dont see how we can allow that for another year….
by OR69faithfull on Feb 9, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
just an add to some of our discussion above neal
Did our inside LB’s have even 1 passed defended this yr?…. I cant remember one…
by OR69faithfull on Feb 9, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
I think Timmons had one against the Pats, but I dunno. What I know is teams struggled to throw the ball on us for the vast majority of the season. Again, it seems weird that would happen if our linebackers were on the same level as the Vikings secondary.
the post was aimed at the two linebackers mentioned..
Not Timmons… funny thing is in read a bit of what youve written in other posts on this thread….re taking the mack back responisbilites some what off of that position, I couldnt agree more… and given that, dont you think a 1st round ILB this yr or Stevenson could quite nicely fill the second ILB position… I do..
I recall watching that SF game and just seeing both Foote and Farrior both getting blown of the ball…
All thought here anyhow… Over 43 yrs now following the steelers and watching at times their failure to move new players into the mix, guess I hope they have an eye toward getting more youth in the lineup…. Id much rather have a rookie-sec yr player get beat, and learn something…then watch a 15 yr veteran unable to make the play…
by OR69faithfull on Feb 10, 2012 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
Well, you said ILB.
I have little to no faith in Sylvester.
In reading other stuff I’ve written, you’ll see I’ve advocated selecting an ILB with the first pick. It’s early in evaluation, but I think the player most likely to be available with the most talent at 24 this year will be an ILB.
That does not mean that player, if taken, should start.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 10, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Timmons had 5 passes defended, with one interception, Farrior had 3 passes defended, and Foote had 1.
Also Timmons had 93 tackles, second most on the team, with 68 solo, also second most on the team. Farrior was fourth on the team with 78 tackles, 54 solo, and Foote was 8th with 47, 30 solo.
See for yourself http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers
You....your not worth my time..
your shallow point of view isn’t worth discussion…
You must of had your eyes closed when decent running teams opposed us…..because thats exactly what happened…
in reply to your post below…
by OR69faithfull on Feb 10, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
It’s you’re and must’ve, a contraction of must have.
If Tomlin and company think that the best thing is to play someone else at linebacker because they beat out Farrior and/or Foote, then I believe that is the best for the team. If Farrior is back at the starting position next year, then I know that is what is best for the team. Simple as that.
Very well articulated
counterpoint… small minds, blind insight…. your welcome to have your hold on to the past opinion, I prefer moving toward the future…
by OR69faithfull on Feb 9, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, clearly if I think comments like
how they couldnt fight off a RB to make a tackle and got plowed over most all year long, as well as being nothng more the pass complete zone coverage backersare absurd and moronic must mean that I am holding onto past opinion and you are the one who is forward looking
I’m sorry, but when you say something like this
I would
argue that our ILB’s pass coverage was near the worst in the league
What do you expect? Why would you argue that? Do you have anything to support your argument? Or is it just random rambling?
He showed you why you were wrong, you didn’t show him why he was wrong. You showed him insults though…so there is that.
You can’t just make stuff up, then when someone challenges it, resort to insults and telling us how long you’ve been a fan.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
first frank......stfooi
His original post was nothing more then a punk comment interjected between a conversation between Neal and I..
And his subsequent reply and off point end around on the tailings of the content of Neals and I converstaion…..
And yes, I feel both Farriors and Foote’s play was sub par this season…… but As Ive noted with you in the past….. you just like to be the energizer rabbit….go onnnnnn and onnnnn and onnnnnn…
If Worldtrip wants my respect, then perhaps he might reevaluate interjecting a punk comment with no context….. Wasnt even going to touch this today, cause frankly not worth my energy ……..but, as youve all continued on with it…..
Lets move on to Andy34’c comment……. Ive no idea whom he refers to…perhaps me, perhaps another……but…….exactly who the f does he think he is?… Does he think he holds some senoirty of consideration of his post or content…?…rather reminds me of sitting at a bar, and a guy 2 seats down talking shi* about you to his buddy sitting next to him…. like to just smash his face in…putting the male bravado aside a bit….
If you dont like a post I make, youve no obligation to reply to it….If you find something Ive written in contradiction to my view, …couterpoint it…just normal behavior….Neal and I have often shared our thoughts and I agree with most all his views, caause they come from his personal insight, but more, he has the courage to put a spin on the obvious ….weve agreed to disagree on more then one occasion……
Often my views are a “whole” of my 43 yrs as a die heart steeler fan… A view which most here dont have the deepth of…not all, but most… So,if I post something suggesting I dont want to see the Steelers holding on to the past, is because I suffered thru that same heart wenching decision in yrs past…. If you want to place the context of me saying in perhaps your view (not u specifically) of a 10yr time frame on Farrior, then perhaps you would have different sentiments… but then again, I dont have to live in the context of others views, only try to share my own……
On any given day I come here, Life has me in various moods…sometimes just for a quick post, or sometimes passionate….
On a whole, I try to give respect when Ive seen it displayed by another…. the two poster ive mentioned Worldtrip, or Andy34 have not gained mine… As for you Frank, my first impression of you was your a bit of a hot air bag…though, over time, Ive come to realize thats just part of your personality, and your not a bad sort.. Ive seen some constructive post on your behalf, and a lesser mature side of you….thats life on the internet……
I try to post mostly to things that interest me…. there are different authors here, some meat and potato some more cotton candy… Im not much of a cotton candy guy, so mostly wont add much to such threads…. no disrespect to any authors here… but as for me, your dealing with a guy whom busted his azz his whole life, had nothing handed to me by mom and dad, with a 6-2 270lb N. Jersey Saprano Italian heritage muscle type bravado… Ive done well enough through all my efforts in life to retire some yrs back at 48 yrs of age… I visit the site for enjoyment…not arguement, and certainly not to be insulted…. enjoy your day all, off for morning coffee…..
by OR69faithfull on Feb 10, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
In all of this poor grammar and misspellings you still don’t respond to the incongruity and absurdity of the statement that the Steelers inside linebackers are among the worst in pass defense in the league, yet the team had the number 1 pass defense in the league.
The thing that annoys me about people like you is the attitude that you know more than the coaches and personnel men of the Steelers who see and coach the players every day. Because you have been a fan for 43 years? Ya know what, so have I, but I would never be so conceited as to think that gives me some kind of knowledge beyond the coaches.
If you had simply said something along the lines of, I hope Stevenson Sylvester or a drafted linebacker steps up and plays so well that they beat out Farrior and Foote and make one of those two expendable, that would be fine. I wouldn’t feel compelled to tell you what an overblown gasbag you sound like. But no. You have to state that they are the worst linebackers in the league and virtually any linebacker could come in and take their position and play better (I’ve paraphrased, but not by much). That is just patently false, and makes you sound like a complete moron for stating it.
You want to have a an intelligent debate about the pros and cons of one player vs another, I’m all for it. Perhaps you should consider how you phrase things and then you won’t feel so compelled to tell us your life story.
You really should go back and read all my comment....... in fact, i sadi just that....
Im done with youWoldtrip….. not even read past “if u had saaid Steevenson should step up” Ive no time for your type…… both bother posting to my posts, and Ill do the same……
Next time in summary, you want to have a debate about a a player ot topic (per your last paragragh) maybe you should consider not posting a punk no context jump in to others conversations…..
by OR69faithfull on Feb 10, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Funny…..how a simple….your right, that was a punk azz comment…. just eludes the manners of the ignorant….
by OR69faithfull on Feb 10, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Once again, it’s you’re, and I agree, so why do you refuse to acknowledge your “punk azz”, and not to mention moronic, comments?
You seem to be
under some illusion that after Neal and I had been discussing some issues, that after you posted your punk comment, that in some way Id be interested in discussing it further with you… not to mention your rude opinion of my thoughts….your sadly mistaken…nor will I allow you to some how justify your rudeness in the context of my life… If spelling or pun"k"uation had relevence to context of my statements to you, then certainly Id of taken the time to apply them….but, you cant double talk a straight shooter….so… off to things that actually have meaning and life, and done with wally world…
by OR69faithfull on Feb 10, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
“I’d have” taken the time. Seriously, read a book or two. It will do a world of good to your grammar and vocabulary.
And since you are obviously too dense to recognize it, but Neal’s comment of
Mr. OR, I’m going to drink a beer in your honor tonight.was just his much more polite way of saying that your comment was so moronic that it didn’t even bear a response.
Also, you should recognize that when discussing a topic on this board it is anybody’s prerogative to add their two cents at any point. If you want to discuss something with only one person, then you should exchange email addresses. Otherwise this is an open board. Continue to make stupid comments, I’m going to continue to point out that stupidity.
You go right ahead twit
I’ll go right ahead pointing out your rudeness….. 2 cents to me doesnt equate to rude mannerless behavior, nice of you to read into Neals thoughts, and speak for him, as well as ignore my jest post in reply… perhaps the one of us whom should be you…. perhaps youd like this one… “little book of manners” by Karen Katz, its a simple abc manners book best suited for your dense personna….
by OR69faithfull on Feb 10, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
me?
by a internet nitwit?… whom in real life would get his lights punched out by being blatantly rude to a stranger….
Your right about one thing Klompus.. He’s not worth another breath….
by OR69faithfull on Feb 10, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll acknowledge that I was rude. I apologize for my rudeness.
Will you acknowledge that many of your comments about Farrior and Foote were absurd?
No apology needed
consider the hachet buried… as for my opinions of Foote or Farrior, thats all they are.. if my extened view of their contributions wasnt main steam thinking….is only that, a different point of view….perhaps another time we can both enjoy discussing it… enjoy your day worldtrip……
by OR69faithfull on Feb 10, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Is this guy the return of...
Hi 5 STEELER…without the caps? Makes as much sense…
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo (1970)
kendrell bell?
he was basically assigned one duty…smash. i don’t remember him ever dropping into coverage. so, yes, i suppose you’re correct in that he dominated smashing people, but it was a vastly more simplified playbook.
by SamTheButcher on Feb 9, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
He couldn't hold Timmons helmet...
in today’s defense. Which is why he had one good year and then went south…er, well…ultimately west to KC.
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo (1970)
smith is a free agent. the steelers won’t have to eat any part of his contract
hines restructuring his contract would save the steelers closer to something like 2 or 3 million
His contract calls for $2 million and change this coming year
If he restructures/takes a pay cut, the least he can be paid is $975k (CBA rules).
Hines, I mean, not Smith
Although Smith’s situation is similar to that. He won’t be given a choice though, I don’t think.
Farrior and Wallace seem like the only two big issues
Presuming of course everyone plays nice and renegotiates in good faith.
The Smith and Hampton thing has been a long time coming. While I wouldn’t consider it option 1A, McClendon can hold down the NT spot, especially if they opt to rotate Hood in there sometimes.
Persoanlly, I hope the Steelers seize this opportunity to retool the DL a bit and maybe experiment with some Ravens-style 4-3 mixes in with their 3-4.
Interesting thought as Woodley certain ly has the size to get down as a 4-3 end...
but your Mike in that situation is whom? Both Farrior and Foote lack the speed to cover the middle in passing situations. Like the idea of showing different fronts. Thought that the Steelers needed to do this against the Broncos when the D line was left w 3 healthy starters. By that I mean go to 2 or dlineman and force Tebow to figure the assignments and coverages. We saw nothing of the sort.
Impose your will.
Farrior would still be the Mike, but you could use Timmons or Foote there as well, depending on the situation. You’d probably want Timmons playing the Will and Harrison playing the Sam with Woodley on the ground.
The Steelers run packages like that now – their nickel oftentimes had essentially four guys on the line. Harrison didn’t always put his hand down, but he was right there. Two backers, five d-backs.
Point is, however we line up in 2012, we need more/better depth at our inside linebacker positions.
Wish we did that against the broncs
Impose your will.
by ALDOG on Feb 9, 2012 8:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, well...
Hindsight’s 20/20. They dared Tebow to hit deep passes in man coverage. He did that.
by Neal Coolong on Feb 10, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Been having that game replayed in my dreams at least 2 x a week.
Need therapy!,,,
Impose your will.
Wish we did that against the broncs
Impose your will.
by ALDOG on Feb 9, 2012 9:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not done YET .
DB’s still need alot of help yet. How about starting with the next worse DB Gay. I never understood why he plays off WR’s 7 to 8 yds. when the WR’s only need 2 to 3 yds. for a first down . Plus he can’t cover most of the WR’s
Dont count on Rolle
He has not been garnering attention from anyone else. I think they may go late round with another CB and simply ride the guys they have. Gay is by far the most dpendent on the system Lebeau employs. He is going to look for a lot of help where its needed. But they love his tenacity on run support. He stays unless Allen or Brown unseats him.
Impose your will.
Gay won’t be resigned. We don’t have the cap room, especially considering the amount of investment they’ve put into the young corners.
This sounds weird, I know, but he’s now a luxury, last year he was a necessity. Three dogs (Lewis, Allen and Brown, in that order), two bones (starter, nickel) all of whom make less than what Gay can get on the open market.
Never say never, Neal...
many, many people said on here last year that Gay was a goner. Brown played almost no CB last year after pre-season. Mini-camp and OTA’s will tell the FO if he has progressed any. Now I do suspect that Madison is gone again.
As to Rolle, he hasn’t shown anything to anybody yet. He’s behind DSC who keeps getting cut and re-signed…sort of like Harrison did. Probably won’t, but it would be nice if it panned out the same way. Steelers must like something in him as they keep re-signing him.
Oh, BTW…nice article…good stuff for stimulating discussions!
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo (1970)
Hard Decisions... Keep Cotchery?
These are hard decisions. I love Hines, but I would much rather see Cotchery on the team next year (not that there is necessarily a decision between the two).
grain of salt
I agree, I want Cotchery and they need to lock him up before free agency. Time to say good bye to SMith,Hampton,Foote,WArd. Reduce Farrior for one year( to teach the Buck),Restruct Harrison this is his last year and Possible trade. Reduce Chris K and trade during the draft if not cut June 1st.
Bye J Scott,Will allen and I’d approach Max Starks now and say heres 2.2 mil and a 2 year contract Now take it or its time to move on. (they can keep him on pup until he heals. giving us insurance of a solid tackle by the 6st game)
Would agree
but the heart disagrees and, rather than disregarding that, something makes me wonder if Hines’ ability to teach and get guys to run through brick walls, especially during the dead days of offseason workouts does not give him a substantial advantage over Cotchery.
"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."
-- so says Rex Ryan.
Cotchery
Even though the Denver playoff loss is a bad memory, Cotchery made that spectacular TD catch which brought the Steelers back into the game. I have no clue how he held onto that ball after the Denver player hit him hard in the chest in the end zone.
+7
We need to keep Cotchery – not an “excellent” player, but a good, steady, reliable receiver, and he would maintain some maturity in the WR corps.
United we Stand, melded like Steel
To Roger Goodell, We'll never Yield.
Ward
What is the general consensus on Ward? Did he not play much because of his concussion? Arians/Ben conspiracy? Too many better receivers ahead of him? I don’t know if I know the answer, but having Ward instead of Cotchery (as clutch as I think Cotchery was) doesn’t scare me so long as he can actually still play (not sure…).
by Nate36bus on Feb 10, 2012 3:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

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