Romo vs. Garrard vs. Ben(please)
Well, we have had a Terry sighting, something that hasn't happened in a long time. Much debate has been made about Romo, Ben and David Garrard in another post, so I thought that I would put most of the information in one place.
In comparing Romo and Garrard, there really isn't too much of a comparison, as Romo beat Garrard in almost every category last year, Garrard's only full season as starter. Since Garrard has only started one season, it seemed fair to compare the two just for last season...
Romo - 520 att, 335 comp, 64.4%, 4211 yds, 8.1 avg, 36 TD's and 6.9 TD%, 19 ints, and a 97.4 rating.
Garrard - 325 att, 208 comp, 64%, 2509 yds, 7.72 avg, 18 TDs, 5.5 TD%, 3 ints, and a 102.2 rating.
There is something to be said about the fact that Romo has better recievers and the Jags run a LOT. However, that doesn't explain away the comp. percentage, average yds per pass and the TD percentage. Those 3 stats are a bit more important to me, since it shows how consistent they are, and Romo is better in all three. The 3 ints are an amazing stat, and finishing with a rating over 100, something which Romo has not done in 2 seasons as a starter, is quite an accomplishment. All in all, the two are fairly similar in the regular season. You can't really argue strongly for either one being 'better'.
Postseason-wise, Romo is 0-2, compared to Garrard who is 1-1. Both guys have been in 2 playoff games, and the lines are as follows:
Romo
vs. Seattle - 36 att, 18 comp, 50% comp, 201 yds, 5.58 avg, 1 Td, 1 int, for a 89.6 rating.
vs. NYG - 29 att, 17 comp, 58% comp, 1889 yds, 6.52 avg, 1 TD, 0 int, for a dismal 64.7 rating.
Garrard
vs. Pitt - 21 att, 9 comp, 42% comp, 140 yds, 8.02 avg, 2 Tds, 3 ints, 79.2 rating.
vs. NE - 33 att, 22 comp, 66% comp, 278 yds, 8.42 avg, 2 TD, 0 ints, 100.3 rating.
Take what you will from that, to me it looks as though there isn't too much difference, neither qb has done much in the postseason, although Garrard's line in the NE loss is very good.
As for the claim that Romo is better than Ben...
Romo's first season as a starter -
337 att, 220 comp, 65.3% 2903yds, 8.61 avg, 19 TDs, 5.6 TD%, 13 ints, and a 95.1 rating. Record was 6-4.
Ben's first season - 295 att, 196 comp, 66.4 comp%, 2621 yds, 8.88 avg, 17 TDs, 5.8 TD%, 11 ints, and a 98.1 rating. Record was 14-0.
So first season comparison is a joke. Romo barely cleared .500 winning percentage, Ben set a rookie record for winning his first 13 games as a starter. 13 - 0! Amazing first year run.
Playoff records -
Romo is 0-2
Ben is 5-2, 2 AFC championship games, 1 SB ring
Defining playoff moments -
Romo - botching a hold for a game winning field goal.
Ben - game-saving tackle on a fumble return.
Say what you want about that terrible performance in the superbowl, they still won, and it was one playoff game. Ben still has a ring and 5 playoff wins.
Regular season winning percentage -
Romo: 19 - 7 for a .730%
Ben: 40 - 16 for a .713%
pretty even, considering that Ben had one monster bad season, and has been in the league longer.
Overall career stats -
Ben - 55 games started, 1437 att, 909 comp, 63.3 comp%, 11677 yds, 8.13 avg, 84 TDs, 5.8 TD%, 54 ints, for a rating of 92.5
Romo - 26 games started, 857 att, 555 comp, 64.8 comp%, 7114yds, 8.30 avg, 55 TDs, 6.4 TD%, 32 ints, and a rating of 96.5
Bens records:
1 Pro Bowl
Most wins by a rookie - 13 games
Highest qb rating for a rookie - 98.1
Longest win streak to start a career - 15 games
Best won-loss record thru 4 years for a qb - 44 and 18
First qb to start two AFC championship games in his first two seasons.
Youngest qb to start the superbowl
Highest comp% for a rookie qb - 66.4%
Oh yeah,
and worst rating for a winning superbowl qb - 22.7
Romo's records -
2 Pro Bowls
One more interesting stat - Ben has 3 career perfect passer rating games. Since it's inception, there have only been 40 perfect ratings, thrown by 34 qbs. The only other multiples are Peyton(four) and Kurt Warner(two). Oh yeah, Romo has a big goose egg.
When comparing these stats, you have to look at the fact that the Steelers do run a predominantly run first offense, and that the Cowboys have had more talent at the reciever position. I think that those two facts are changing though. I think we will get more and more balanced and that Holmes will get more talented. But comparing Owens and even my man-crush Hines, Owens is by far the better reciever. Pure talent wise, may be the best in the league, and he doesn't seem to be slowing down with age. Hines does a little bit.
Terry, your comments like
"Romo is being paid as much or less than most franchise QBs including your boy Ben, who by the way has a less than impressive resume than Romo unless you want to count that SB win which was won in spite of his horrendous performance that day (25 qb rating, worse ever for a winning SB QB)."
are waaaay off base, not to mention grammatically incorrect. Their actual stats are pretty similar, but their actual RESUMES don't compare. Ben set multiple rookie records, has a better playoff record, a similar regular season record, 3 perfect passer ratings, nearly the same amount of Pro Bowls, two AFC champ appearances and a superbowl win. Romo has a tiny better winning percentage, and two playoff losses.
And last but not least you made this comment:
"Romo doesn't draw attention to himself, he's automatically going to get tons of attention no matter what he does because he's the QB of the Dallas Cowboys. Whoever that person is, they are going to be viewed under a microscope 24/7, thats just the way it is."
So, did Bledsoe draw the kind of attention that Romeo has drawn for himself? What about Henson, Wright, Carter, and Testaverde? All of these guys were starting qbs for the Boys in this decade and none of them made the tabloids on a regular basis. Just because you are a qb for the self-proclaimed "America's Team" does not mean you are under the media's microscope. The Cowboys are not what they once were, despite what so many of their fans want to think. Hell, the biggest news for your team this decade has been the hiring of a troubled reciever, the hiring and subsequent quitting of a primmadonna coach, and a playboy qb having girlfriend issues.
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Comments
Terry
In reading Terry's arguments in the other diary, I was amazed at how weak his arguments have been, and this post just totally destroyed his arguments. The reason for this is that unlike regular contributors to this site, who have realistic views of our team's situation, Terry seems convinced that Tony Romo is already guaranteed to win multiple SBs, despite Tony's poor to mediocre post season performances thus far in his career.
Perhaps I was off to say Romo didn't deserve what he got in his contract, but at the time that he got it, he was just then nearing a full season as a starter. A much more reasonable approach would have been to sign him to a two or three year extension for around $20M, then to have given him a raise at the end of this year with a deal similar to what he actually got. Still, you're paying him to win championships, not regular season games, and he hasn't gotten past round 1 in the playoffs.
Again, Terry assumes that he will win multiple SB's but the fact remains that he hasn't one a single playoff game. To assert that he will before he does just shows a lack of rational thought.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 26, 2008 2:00 PM EDT 0 recs
Tom Brady
by TheMostViolentTeam on
Mar 26, 2008 2:56 PM EDT
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Sensible ownership
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
Mar 26, 2008 3:26 PM EDT
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one thing
vs. NYG - 36 att, 18 comp, 50% comp, 201 yds, 5.58 avg, 1 TD, 1 int, for a dismal rating of 64.7
vs. Seattle - 29 att, 17 comp, 58% comp, 189 yds, 6.52 avg, 1 TD, 0 int, for a rating of 89.6
by steelerark on Mar 26, 2008 2:21 PM EDT 0 recs
nice try comparing "has beens"
A letigimate franchise qb for the Dallas Cowboys is like playing shortstop for the Yankees, they will AUTOMATICALLY draw media attention no matter what.
Like I said before, obviously all Steeler fans think Ben is better than Romo and all Cowboys fans think Romo is better than Ben, and in reality most teams would take either guy to QB their team. Of course I'd take Romo over Ben every day of the week and twice on Sundays, but I'm a Romosexual and I think Tony is the best.
Its all subjective and the only thing that matters is what they'll do in future years to come. I'm obviously putting my money on Romo. I do look forward to their battle at Heinz Field this season, should be a good one.
by Terry on Mar 26, 2008 5:13 PM EDT 0 recs
oh man, how did i miss this???
by steelerark on
Mar 30, 2008 2:50 AM EDT
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Not only has Romo not won a playoff game
It's one thing to have never won a playoff game; it's on another level when you bonehead a victory into defeat. My 12-year old daughter would have caught that snap and held for the victory.
But enough is enough with all this Romo nonsense. Who cares? Let's just agree to disagree and hope we meet in the Super bowl.
by maryrose on Mar 26, 2008 5:46 PM EDT 0 recs
that drop occured as a holder
I seriously doubt that either you or your daughter could receive a hold from a NFL snapper, willing to bet my paycheck on it.
BTW, a 4th Cowboys/Steelers SB would be awesome.
by Terry on
Mar 26, 2008 8:29 PM EDT
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It is not all subjective
Romo has no playoff success whatsoever. NONE!
Ben has overcome a close encounter with car windshield with aplomb.
Romo can't handle Jessica Simpson.
A 4th Cowboys/Steelers SB? Why would you want to torture yourself?
by RickVa on Mar 26, 2008 8:47 PM EDT 0 recs
well, to see Romo whoop Ben of course
If Romo had been in the league several years, you might have a point, but to judge him on playoff success only after less than 2 seasons is ludicrious.
by Terry on
Mar 26, 2008 10:35 PM EDT
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been in the league how long?
by cgolden on
Mar 27, 2008 7:58 AM EDT
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you don't read very well cgolden
Like I said, if he was the starting qb for several years, everyone's argument regarding playoff success would hold water, but judging a player when he hasn't played even 2 full seasons yet is simply not a fair indication of his ability or talent.
by Terry on
Mar 27, 2008 9:31 AM EDT
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by the same token Terry
by TheMostViolentTeam on
Mar 27, 2008 10:07 AM EDT
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I never said he will be great
by Terry on
Mar 27, 2008 10:38 AM EDT
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Maybe he didn't play poorly
Also, GREAT players overcome poor performances to win games.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
Mar 27, 2008 10:44 AM EDT
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Congrats on his regular season greatness then
by cgolden on
Mar 27, 2008 10:46 AM EDT
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These are you're exact words?
Is five years not more than several?
Fact is, he's being paid like a franchise quarterback now. It doesn't matter now that he wasn't drafted or that he's only started 26 games. He's being paid 10 million a year and he needs to play like it otherwise he'll fall in with the Marc Bulgers of the world in my mind. Romo still has plenty of time to prove his worth in the playoffs and he should get numerous opportunities over the next several years but for right now he's a playoff failure and any speculation about future sucess is nothing more wishful thinking.
by cgolden on
Mar 27, 2008 10:13 AM EDT
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He was in the league several years
by RickVa on
Mar 27, 2008 3:57 PM EDT
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Terry is hilarious :)
Terry, your arguments have no coherence. Reading your responses here have provided me with great entertainment, because you're so obviously delusional. :)
If you want to seem reasonable, just say that your glad he's your QB. He has let you down in the playoffs so far, but he's still relatively young so you have reason to be hopeful. Any outside observer (not a fan of either team) would say that Ben has a more accomplished resume at this point in time, he had more accomplished resume after two years as a starter, and he's two years younger, so he still has a larger window of opportunity.
And, yes, as little as you want to admit it, championships and playoff wins do mean something. I just saw a little of the NFL's Greatest Games yesterday, and it was about SB XIII (I'm sure you have fond memories of that:)). Roger Staubach was lamenting that more Cowboys would probably have been HOFers if they had won that game. So, obviously history remembers the Steelers of the 70s as greater than the Cowboys of the 70s. And, more Steelers made the HOF because they had 2 more SBs than the Cowboys. That's just how it is.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 27, 2008 10:41 AM EDT 0 recs
+1
by cgolden on
Mar 27, 2008 10:45 AM EDT
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I'd like to put this guy in a room with wiggins.
by HinesField on
Mar 27, 2008 12:18 PM EDT
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Ohh, Silver
by cgolden on
Mar 27, 2008 2:45 PM EDT
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lol..thats funny
by Terry on
Mar 27, 2008 2:59 PM EDT
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Black and Gold
by cgolden on
Mar 27, 2008 3:11 PM EDT
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Black and Yellow
Notre Dame, current Rams, Pitt, Colorado, Saints, those teams are gold, the Steelers colors are black and yellow and they hidious.
by Terry on
Mar 27, 2008 4:51 PM EDT
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Romo didn't let me down at all
Just ask Peyton Manning about supporting casts, he was in the exact same sitauation in his playoff loss to the Chargers and didn't overcome his teammates poor performance. So I guess Manning gets a pass since he already won a SB...yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It took Manning 7 years to win a SB, but I guess he wasn't that great until 2006, huh?
by Terry on
Mar 27, 2008 2:40 PM EDT
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You said IS great now
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
Mar 27, 2008 3:07 PM EDT
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Excuse me
by RickVa on
Mar 27, 2008 4:02 PM EDT
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But he
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
Mar 27, 2008 4:13 PM EDT
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But
If Brady never won a superbowl and did what he did last season, he would of been view differently like Mario is viewed against how people view Troy Aikman (someone who doesnt have Mario like numbers but wins alot of superbowls and playoff games.)
by LiveinDCbutsteelerfanbyheart on Mar 27, 2008 11:10 AM EDT 0 recs
Staubach wannabee
Dwight White said it best. The world is divided into three groups football wise. Those who have won more than one SB (Brady, among active players), those who have won one (Ben, Farve, Warner, Dilfer, Johnson, both Mannings) and the third group doesn't count. That includes your boy Romo. Come see us after he gets a ring.
by RickVa on Mar 27, 2008 4:27 PM EDT 0 recs
I really
Marino himself has said many times that his records mean nothing in the face of never winning it all. In the NFL, nothing means more. Nothing. If you can't win in the playoffs, you more than likely will not last. Just ask Marty. Sure, there are exceptions, Marino being the biggest(oh lordy, why did we ever pass him up in the draft? Still stings). Kelly is up there too. A great qb, but never able to pull it out. Is Trent Dilfer judged as a better qb than Kelly? Of course not. But that does not change the fact that he is a SUPERBOWL WINNER, and Kelly is not. I am not saying whether or not Romo is better than Ben. I personally think that skillwise, the two are pretty similar, and their stats say the same. I am not saying that Ben will one day be in the HOF, and Romo will not. Obviously, it is moronic to try to predict something like that. But to say that Romo has had better acheivements, and to place him on such a pedestal for what you believe he will do in the years to come is foolish. Your prerogative sure, but foolish all the same.
by steelerark on Mar 27, 2008 7:56 PM EDT 0 recs
I'm not basing it on achievemants
Just my opinion, as I'm pretty confident in Romo's abilities.
by Terry on
Mar 27, 2008 11:45 PM EDT
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So you're basing it on your feelings
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
Mar 28, 2008 10:45 AM EDT
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not feelings, but what I see
My opinion is therefore more qualified as I'm sure you only watch highlights and only a few games a year of Tony, if that.
by Terry on
Mar 28, 2008 12:04 PM EDT
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I wish
by cgolden on
Mar 28, 2008 12:07 PM EDT
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then you should know how good
by Terry on
Mar 28, 2008 2:03 PM EDT
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geez
by cgolden on
Mar 28, 2008 2:25 PM EDT
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I've conceded that from the
by Terry on
Mar 28, 2008 4:10 PM EDT
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You're inconsistent
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
Mar 29, 2008 10:05 AM EDT
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