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Big Ben And The Steelers Sacked By Jets

Hmm, where to start. I'm going to let some of my initial thoughts be known, then open it up to you guys.

  • Let's start with the defense, where there were both positives and negatives. The good? Pass coverage was again sound. Kellen Clemons really couldn't get anything going all day after his 51-yard hook-up with Laverneus Coles on the flea-flicker. As I suspected, the Jets were going to need to strike on several big pass plays to put up a big number on us, and they weren't able to.

Now, what I didn't count on was us tackling Thomas Jones so poorly. It's not like Jones is an All-World runner either. Our inability to bring him down on first contact was mystifying and very uncharacteristic of this group. Overall, I wouldn't say there is too much to be alarmed by, because this unit simply has no track record of poor tackling. The question makr heading into this season was pass coverage, not run defense. You don't go from an elite run-stopping squad to an abysmal one overnight without injuries, so no need to panic just yet. As the saying goes, if it happens once it's a fluke, twice it's a coincidence, and three times....Well, we're only at one, so hold the phone on any major concerns about this defense.

Ike Taylor, Deshea Townsend, and Bryant McFadden all played well yet again. Tyrone Carter is proving to be more than just a big-hitter, and Anthony Smith is filling in for Ryan Clark just fine. Could we have been in better position on several of Jones' runs? Sure, but this was more a matter of tackling than anything else.

  • How about the penalties? 8 total for 100 yards. Ike Taylor was flagged for a costly pass interference penalty on the Jets' third series. Starks and Mahan were each flagged for holding. Clark Haggans unnecessarily held a Jets player on the goal line when Kellon Clemons fumbled the ball into the endzone. Troy Polamalu had coverage behind him if Haggans had just let go. Those 3 points were huge for the Jets. Aaron Smith was flagged for roughing the passer on an incomplete third down play. The Jets didn't score on the possesion, but it killed the momentum we had rightfully won with our 11 play 6:36 opening drive of the 2ndt half. Championship teams don't make that many mistakes, and I'd suspect the Steelers players pay dearly for it during practice this week.
  • As for the banter about the play calling in the previous thread and in the diaries. At least for this game, there's not much ground to stand on in opposition to the argument that Bruce Arians had a very poor day calling plays. However, it would be an unfair assesment to say that we just ran the ball time after time on 1st down. Of the 29 first down plays we ran today, 15 were runs and 14 were passes. That's a plenty reasonable ratio for this team. Let's not forget that the Jets are worst in the NFL against the run, yielding 152.2 yards per game. Any notion Arians had of pounding the rock against the Jets was very reasonable. Only problem was we got out-manned up front by a more hungry, physical front-7. Is this disappointing? Hell yeah it is, but honestly it shouldn't come as a total shock. By now, anybody who's watched the games closely knows this offensive line isn't elite. And when you factor in the fact that the Jets have had two weeks to prepare, and two weeks to be reminded by the New York media just how putrid they've been, it shouldn't come as a total shock that we were beat in the trenches today. Finally, we obviously had major issues protecting the quarterback today. One way to stop a pass rush is to run the ball effectively. Perhaps a few too many runs, but the general plan on exploiting this depleted Jets' run defense was not the problem. Execution was. Again, very disappointing, but our line is what we thought it is: not much better than average.
  • Now for my grievances with Arians play-calling, not just this week, but for the bulk of the season: I don't like that we're constantly trying to throw the ball down the field. Here's the yards per catch breakdown of our Big 3 today:

Holmes - 15 ypc; Ward - 23.5 ypc; Miller - 18 ypc.

Some might ask, 'But Blitzburgh, what's wrong with throwing the ball down field and having a high yards per catch average?' Well, nothing if you have an elite offensive line and you're completing a high percentage of your passes (Big Ben finished at 60%, but 4 checkdowns to Davenport inflated that number). But if your line is just so-so, you're asking to get your QB killed. And on those days when the running game's not clicking, only throwing deep makes it awfully tough for an offense to find any rhythm.  

I also noticed that on most of the checkdowns to Davenport, Big Ben was initially trying to make a big play down the field before dumping it off. You have to be able to stretch the field in the National Football League to be successful, but in my mind, our propensity to try to make the big play is getting out of hand.

There's several major problems with the strategy, the biggest one being that our offensive line is not very good in pass protection. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that deep plays take longer to develop. The O-Line's not great, but it's not Houston Texans circa 2003 miserable. We'd be doing Big Ben and our offense a big favor by throwing some more shorter, timing patterns.

Let me take you back to one of our better executed pass plays of the afternoon. The situation was 3rd and 4 on our own 25. Roethlisberger recognized the Jets blitz scheme, and quickly unloaded to Cedrick Wilson, who was running a quick out. 9 yards and a first down. Unless I'm forgetting something, that was the last of the short stuff we would run, save one quick hot read to Holmes along the line of scrimmage.

The Jets had two defenders on Holmes, Ward and Washington just about every time they went deep, yet we didn't adjust and take what was given to us. Think back to our first TD pass to Holmes. It was a quick swing-out to Santonio, and he waited for Heath and Hines to lock in on their blocks on the edge before turning on his jets and heading to the endzone. That kind of stuff can work when you have WRs who catch the ball well in traffic (Holmes and Hines), and a QB who is tall enough to not get a bunch of passes batted down at the line.

Perhaps Big Ben's success at pulling off the miraculous so often this season has convinced him that there's no play he can't make. I don't know, I'm not inside his head, but it's plausible considering his personality. It should also be noted that Big Ben has more input on game-planning and audibling this year than in year's past. It's not inconceivable that he's been influential in this development.

I'll finish with the play-calling by saying that I hated the two 3rd and long draws we ran to Carey Davis. The first call was less egregious, because we were facing 3rd and 17 and were on the Jets 24. It's hard to squeeze a pass in there when you're in that part of the field, and no sense in falling out of FG range with another sack. 3 points ties the game, so fine, run something conservative. But why Davis? Does he have the burst to even have a chance at picking up that first down? No, he doesn't. Here's an idea. Why don't we take away 3-5 carries from Parker when we plan on plowing straight ahead, and keep him fresh for situations where defenses are thinking pass.  

The second time we ran the draw to Davis was much harder to swallow. Facing a 3rd and 14 from inside our own 20, we ran the same play for 6 yards. Basically we conceeded the ball to the Jets. It's not like we were playing the field position game either. Phil Simms tried to justify the situation that way, but what's 6 more yards when the opponent is going to field the punt at around the 35 yard line anyway. You have to go for the first down there. Very, very passive call. Basically in my mind, we were overly aggressive when we should have been patient and methodical, and timid when we needed to let it all hang out.

  • Weekly update on special teams. I found it sad we resorted to the pooch kick. That's great and all that it minimizes the chances of a huge return, and there's definitely times when that's appropriate. But on every kickoff? Sure we took Leon Washington out of the game in kickoff returns, but we also basically gave them the ball past the 30 yard line on each of their possesions following a score. Again, another sign of weakness displayed by the Steelers on Sunday. I'd rather us figure out which guys we need in there rather than pooching it and giving them the ball past the 30 every single time. Remember, 30 yards per kickoff return is just about good enough for tops in the league. So to just willingly give your opponent on the 30 yard line every time is a sign of just how little confidence we must have in that department of the game. Pooching it in my mind is just putting on a band-aid, not disecting and fixing the cause of the problem in the first place.

As for Jeff Reed? Perfect again, as Spikey continues his very steady 2007 season.

Finally, rookie punter Daniel Sepulveda's mediocre punt in overtime set up the Jets' game winning FG score. It was not Sepulveda's finest day as a pro, that's for sure. He did pin the Jets inside the 20 twice, but he wasn't able to muster any of the booming kicks we've grown to expect this year from him. It cost us in overtime. If you get a chance to see a replay of that return by Washington, you'll notice Najeh Davenport make an asbolutely pathetic effort at containing Washington. First off, why is Najeh Davenport a gunner in our punt coverage? I like him in certain offensive situations, but he's got slow, slow feet, and honestly, not the best instincts out there. Recent acquisition Anthony Madison saved a TD on that return, and had an overall solid game, but Tomlin's got more work to do finding the right guys to put in there.

  • What about the offensive line? Well, it was offensive that's for sure. That's for another post, I've written enough for now. 7 sacks, multiple holding calls, no running lanes created, and it's not like it was a hostile environment. (Jets fans, you're pathetic by the way. That was the least inspiring home crowd I've maybe ever heard since the Bengals or Buccaneers crowds of the early to mid 90s.)  Again though, the line will be mauled by the media and by the fans, but they were hamstrung by poor play calling and Ben's unwillingness to throw it away when the pocket collapses. A sad showing by the line nevertheless.

*************

Let me finish by saying that despite all that, we had a chance to win this game on the road. We had costly penalties, called a poor game, turned the ball over, didn't tackle well, didn't finish off drives inside the red-zone, and still had a legitimate shot to pull this one out and improve to 8-2.  

Are we a great football team? We can be, absolutely, when everything's clicking. But we also have major flaws that have been exposed for the rest of the league to analyze and attack. Fortunately for us fans, this team has shown flashes of brilliance in all departments, including along the line, so there's plenty of reason to think we could get hot at the right time and make a run in January. The flip-side of that coin for us fans is there's going to be the occasional clunker mixed in there. We just don't have the personnel, and lately, the evolving gameplans, to be consistently great.

No need to panic yet though, and I could not disagree more with those who believe that Mike Tomlin is not the right guy for this job.  

These are but one man's thoughts. Discuss. Remember though, Steelers Nation prides itself on being informed, intelligent football fanatics. Let's be appropriately critical, but save the vitriolic lazy bashing for other less fortunate fanbases.

Go Steelers!

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JETS GAME
the steelers played very lethargic and flat.  they seemed very unmotivated to play and with out a doubt, it was the worst i've seen the offensive line play in many games.  defensively, the tackling was atrocious.  when you have poor line offensive line play and piss poor tackling you don't win many games.  it seems when the steelers play teams that are just awful, those teams that they're supposed to just hammer, the steelers play even worse...ie the losses this year....jeese!!!

by tupemissip on Nov 18, 2007 9:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

yea no doubt that
This game was disappointing. But take a look at our schedule and tell me what other games have we dramatically played down to the level of our competition.

The Arizona game? Sure, but on the road before Leinart and Warner got dinged up in a game that meant a ton of Whisenhunt and his staff.

Denver? I guess, but I think you'd be lying if you said that any trip to Mile High should be a cakewalk.

The second Cleveland game? Again, I suppose, but Cleveland's been a hot team and they were aided by 200+ yards of kick returns.

Other than that, I see a lot of ass whipping been done by the Steelers.

This was a bad, bad performance, but losing on the road against a playoff team from a year ago that is coming off its BYE is not the end of the world. It just isn't.

Let's see if this team can rebound and take care of business at home the next two against Miami and Cincy before we declare that the sky is officially falling.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 18, 2007 9:55 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

blitz
good analysis. I agree that we need to use the short passing game more often. I doubt that is Ben's influence though.  I'm sure he likes going down the field but I think his input is probably more along the lines of what formations, combinations of routes and receivers. They obviously have short passes in the playbook (right?) its just a matter of calling them. It was a very frustrating game to watch. We are so used to Ben bailing us out of these situations, today he wasn't getting any time at all to make things happen.

I think that was the most frustrating thing about today was you just wanted them to put the ball in Ben's hands and let him try to make a play but they couldn't even do that b/c everytime he dropped back he was getting hit.

Also, was anyone else hoping that Davenport got more carries towards the end of the game? I realize Parker is our #1 guy but Dookie was clearly more effective today for whatever reason.

by schnifin on Nov 18, 2007 10:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Excellent points, Blitzburgh
I agree with all of your points once again, my man. Think about this, though. If you didn't know the records of these two teams and just watched the game as a fan, who would you say was the team that was 7-2 and who was the one that was 1-8?

If anything, the Steelers played like they were the 1-8 team. The Jets out-physicaled the Steelers on both sides of the ball. They had 7 sacks and 150 plus yards running the ball.

One team was so terrified of the other team on special teams that it wouldn't kick to them. It pooch-kicked instead, guaranteeing that the other team would at least start at their own 30-yard line each time. Our offensive line couldn't block the worst run defense in the league -- again. This team also gave up 7 sacks, and would have given up another 5 or 6 if our franchise QB couldn't scramble.  

Now, for the defense. The no. 1 defense in the league had a second year quarterback (again, think Jay Cutler earlier) at his own 15 yard line with two minutes left and one timeout.

This great defense allowed this second year QB to march the team right down the field by throwing sideline routes and allowing the receivers to get out of bounds on six consecutive catches. Would it be too much to ask to make the Jets run a hot route inside and tackle the person before they reach the sidelines, causing them to at least burn that last timeout? The no. 1 defense in the league SHOULD NOT let something like that happen.

Blitzburgh wanted an unbiased, unemotional opinion on this game and where we go from here.

Here it is: the Steelers are an above average football team. That's it.

It's not elite. Our offensive line can't pass block and it can't run the ball against good defenses. We have a top 5 QB and 3 excellent receivers. Our feature back cannot run the ball against good run defenses, and sometimes, even against bad run defenses.

Our defense have several standout defenders, but the Steel Curtain it isn't. If our offense commit turnovers, this D isn't good enough to consistently overcome them.

Tomlin talked a good game about fixing the special teams, but the pooch punting showed that he has no confidence in them to stop an elite returner. You will see a great return guy throughout the playoffs if you make it there. What are you going to do? Pooch-kick for the rest of the year?

Also, you can't put that last punt return on Sepulvada. When you put a rookie punter inside his own 15-yard line to punt in overtime on the road, when your supposedly elite offense can't pick up a first down, then what do you expect? They still had an opportunity to tackle the man. They didn't and he almost broke one at the worst time. Another weak area that just came back to bite you at an inopportune time.  

This is an embarrasing loss. The most embarrasing of the season and should end all the talk in the world about the Patriots and what this team will do against them. I'll tell you what they will do against the Patriots -- take another L like they did against non-playoff teams like the Broncos, Jets and Cardinals.  

When you lose 3 games on the road all to teams that you are supposed to be better than, either your team is flawed in a lot of areas or you just aren't as good as you think you are. I think this Steelers team is both.

Does anyone agree or disagree? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

by datruth4life on Nov 18, 2007 10:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

question datruth or anyone else
Does anyone know why Willie Colon has been given the nod over Max Starks? Colon has looked absolutely pathetic, while I thought Starks showed some flashes of progressing and being acceptable considering his young age.

Also, did anybody else notice Spaeth get dusted on one of those sacks. As much as we want to pin it all on the line, it wasn't all them. The play calling plus Big Ben holding it too long, plus TEs missing assignments.

No?

by Blitzburgh on Nov 18, 2007 11:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree truth
Rarely disagree with your conclusions truth but I wouldn't call this game a deal-breaker on the Steelers' potential this year or their status as an ''above average'' team that is either ''flawed in a lot of areas or just aren't as good as you think you are''.

I'm not going to try to paint a pretty picture of a very disappointing game. The Jets are better than their record and perhaps the Steelers are not as good as we all want them to be. But I don't think the players are under any illusions that they have had, and will continue to have, a lot of work to do to be a Super Bowl contender.

This team has one fundamental flaw: the offensive line. As I've noted all year, this is a team that has good talent at all skill positions, the best in many many years, but will have to finesse through the deficiencies on the o-line and cross their fingers that Ben does not get seriously injured or too banged up to play at the level he will need to play at in the playoffs.

Special teams play Sunday was much improved until the poor punt by Sepulveda in OT. And yes, I do expect him to do better than a 39-yard line drive from his own end of the field to a dangerous returner. I douibt we will pooch kickoff the rest of the year for all the points noted above by yourself and blitz, but Washington came into the game as the NFL's top-ranked kickoff returner and the strategy to give the Jets field position between the 30-35 was acceptable given the alternatives. Kickoff tackling was excellent.

This is still an elite defense. Not the Steel Curtain certainly but still very good. In the second half of the game they forced two turnovers on downs and another TO on an intercept. They sucked on the long drive to tie the game but Clemens threw the ball well on that drive and their play-calling was excellent while ours was much too passive. Overall they gave up 16 points and 297 net yards, with most of those points attributed to three plays: a long pass, a PI call and a PR.

This loss is almost entirely on the offense's shoulders, from pitiful centre Sean Mahan to the entire line, to Ben and Parker and Arians. They had three second drives inside the Jets 30, twice with first downs inside the 20, and they came away with nine points. They had great field position after the Townsend INT and turned it over on a Ben fumble three plays later, and positive field position in their own end after the two turnovers on downs. Net result: 3 points on one of those turnovers and not even a first down after the other. In OT, deep in their own end, they were 3 and out. The play call on third and long in OT was a total copout. This would have been a 10-14 point win had the offense played anywhere near as well as they have in eight of their nine previous games.

This was Ben's worst game of the year. The INT was a bad decision into double coverage. He looked confused by the secondary coverage. He was playing out of control and without a concrete idea about how to attack a determined but vulnerable defense. And of course he was dealing with a line that continually let him and the running game down. I think this was the first game where the line's problems had an effect on him mentally. He looked frazzled and confused.

Overall we have lost three games by a total of 13 points, two of them games when the defense allowed a late game-tying drive.  We could easily be 9-1 and on merit the 7-3 record is perhaps justified but also the worst that could be expected given the overall high standard of play.

As for potential, the team has obviously played better to date than the 2005 team. Rankings will justifiably put the Steelers lower than the Colts, Cowboys and Packers, but I would like our chances in games against any of those three teams. And I don't think it's overestimating things to suggest they match up better against the Patriots than any other team. Playing our best, we can do the things that can beat the Pats.

The issue is and always has been: how do you minimize the negative impact of a weak offensive line.  Some games we won't. And if Ben doesn't play well in those games, the Steelers are screwed, at least offensively. I think there are rollout blocking schemes for Ben that would work, perhaps some better hot reads and quick passes down the field. Obviously he is going to make some plays on his own. But there are going to be games when everything blows up in our faces and yesterday was one of them.

by steeler lifer on Nov 19, 2007 12:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bravo
Well done, sir (insert golf clap).
As I've noted all year, this is a team that has good talent at all skill positions, the best in many many years, but will have to finesse through the deficiencies on the o-line and cross their fingers that Ben does not get seriously injured or too banged up to play at the level he will need to play at in the playoffs.
Correct. There's going to be some luck involved in Ben being healthy and mobile during January. I'm not talking about whether or not he'll be knocked out all together, but rather whether he'll be feeling good enough physically to make the kind of plays he made against the Browns.
This loss is almost entirely on the offense's shoulders, from pitiful centre Sean Mahan to the entire line, to Ben and Parker and Arians."
It can't be overstated how piss-poor Mahan was yesterday. Made Faneca look like a schmuck on several occasions in pass-protect, and got mowed down in the run game.
This was Ben's worst game of the year. The INT was a bad decision into double coverage. He looked confused by the secondary coverage. He was playing out of control and without a concrete idea about how to attack a determined but vulnerable defense. And of course he was dealing with a line that continually let him and the running game down. I think this was the first game where the line's problems had an effect on him mentally. He looked frazzled and confused."
This is where the good stuff really is. Absolutely perfect assesment as I keep going over the game in my mind. I made an off-hand comment to myself during halftime in the game-day thread about how bad Ben's decision making was in the first half throwing into tight coverage. You stated it more succintly in retrospect: Ben was confused out there by the blitz looks and the coverage. Ben hasn't been that way much of this year, so interesting that it popped up in a game against an inferior defense. Interesting, but not that surprising for a still-young QB like Roeth. We've been spoiled by his play this year, but the bottom line is we're still not a year removed from some incredibly bad play from him. Better enjoy some Thanksgiving leftovers in the film room this week Bruce and Ben. But for those who say the blueprint is now there to beat the Steelers, I'd say let's wait and see. I personally don't have as much faith in Arians as I'd like, because like you said, I think this team has the skill players and the defense to be as good as anybody if we're able to mask some of our deficiencies correctly. If the Patriots can make playoff runs with crappy WRs and a by-committee secondary, surely we can win games with an offensive line that's average. Not terrible mind you, just average.
The issue is and always has been: how do you minimize the negative impact of a weak offensive line. Some games we won't. And if Ben doesn't play well in those games, the Steelers are screwed, at least offensively.  I think there are rollout blocking schemes for Ben that would work, perhaps some better hot reads and quick passes down the field. Obviously he is going to make some plays on his own. But there are going to be games when everything blows up in our faces and yesterday was one of them.
A frustrating, but very true reality for most every team and QB (including all-time greats like Manning). Astute point again to close. Football is so great to watch and follow as a fan partly because of the high-level of emotional involvement before, during and after each game. You get dusted by 45 in the NBA one night or lose by 8 runs in baseball? Big deal. There's a bazillion more games. If you stink it up in just one or two football games over a 10 game stretch, panic sets in. I'm curious to see how we do during the next two against Miami and Cincy, as well as how we do on the road against STL in another tricky road game against an inferior team that should get more dangerous as they get more healthy.

Anyway, great thoughts lifer. I may be biased because that's how I feel as well, but I still think this is a top-5 football team.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 19, 2007 1:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also
Maybe it's just me, but I don't find the fact that we lost to the Jets in and of itself that bad. The way we played was bad, but a loss to the jets on the road in itself is not terrible. I probably stand alone on this one. The fact that they're 1-8 is deceiving first of all. They actually fared better against NE than any otehr team in the league; and they've lost there other 7 games by a combined 48 points - less than a TD differential per game.

There other most lopsided loss besides the NE game was a 24-35 loss against the Giants, but they had a chance to march down the field and win, but were intercepted for a pick-6 I believe to ice it. Bottom line is this team ain't anywhere near as bad as their record indicated.

Finally, it's also important to remember that even if the Jets were a pathetic team, this isn't like Stanford beating USC. These are all professional grown men with only marginal differences in talent. Any Given Sunday is cliched, but it's very true because of the fact that all these guys are so physically talented.

One more finally...also remember that just about every SB team in recent memory has had at least one majorly disappointing loss in their season. Last year's Colts got BLASTED by the Jaguars 44-17, and surrendered 150+ yards to ROn Dayne and the Texans.

Obviously we had sorry losses during our SB year.

New England lost to a below average Miami team in 2004 and got blanked 31-0 by Buffalo in 2003.

Point is, even great teams have major stumbles throughout the course of the year. I don't think we're elite (yet), but I'm also not ready to pull the plug on this season and say we don't have what it takes to get it done. We have the talent to make a deep run, but we're going to have to hide our most significant weakness (the O-line) with better gameplans.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 18, 2007 10:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

good points
I'm not saying that is should have been expected or that they're the better team by any means but every team lays an egg every once in a while. Doing it on the road against a team coming off a bye doesn't mean this team is done. It just means that they have to bring their 'A' game each week if they have any hope in the playoffs.
"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Nov 19, 2007 11:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not buying the rationalization
Sorry, Blitzburgh but I'm not buying your rationalizations. I was willing to do that for the Arizona and Denver losses since both of those teams may in the end turn out to be division winners but not this Jets loss. The "internals" of this one are too troubling - the same internals have been present in many of the wins and but the wins lessened their importance. The fact is that da truth (as pointed out above) hurts, namely:

Our offensive line is below average at both pass blocking and run-blocking - 3 out of 5 linemen started in the Super Bowl so I don't know if they've just gotten worse or if pornmeister Zeirlein's zone-blocking scheme has everyone confused.

Special teams coverage is awful - I found nothing wrong with the pooch kicking - it's a perfectly reasonable coaching move given how screwed up the coverage unit has been all year.

I've seen some irate posts demanding a coaching change. That is definitely not the issue - Tomlin will be the HC for at least 10 years whether you like it or not - remember who owns the team. How many of you would have taken a 7-3 record at the start of the season? That said, Tomlin may well need to tweak the assistant coach roster in the offseason for O-line and special teams. Arians has made some bad calls but he has also produced. We have never had as prolific a passing game as this year. We just need to mix in the short passes more and make Ben take them (instead of trying to shake off pass rushers) so that the O-line deficiences are offset. Also, we need to forget trying to be a smashmouth offense - we just don't have the personnel to do it. The next time I hear the national media say that the Steelers are great at running the ball down people's throats, I'm gonna throw up.

by santhome on Nov 19, 2007 12:09 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

hehe
Yeah it was very frustrating listening to Simms talk about our offensive line, and Kendall Simmons in particular. He said he was incredible I believe several times.

As for my rationalizations. Take them for what they are, but I'm standing by them. Look at the Colts this year. Absolutely miserable for the past two games, yet only a fool would write them off just yet. And their defense went from absolute joke last year to incredible during the playoffs. I know the in vogue phrase is: they are who they thought they were. But really, things aren't that statis in this league. As datruth said, if you didnt know the records of the teams going in, you'd think the Jets were the 7-2 team and the Steelers the 1-8 squad. Lots can still change with this team's offensive philosophy over the course of the next 6 weeks. If these coordinators are worth a damn, they'll at least make some adjustments that demands less of our offensive line in the passing game. If opposing teams get after Big Ben like they have lately in the next two games, I'll be ready to admit that this team has serious limitations.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 19, 2007 2:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

winners vs. losers
yeah the Jets game was a stinker.  But being a believer in statistics the real puzzler to me is 3 losses to 3 teams with horrid records.  It gives the appearance of poor preparation/respect for those teams and dismal player effort.

by islandivan on Nov 19, 2007 9:31 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Gloom and Doom
I feel everyone's pain. I was busy this morning but was anxious to get on here and read all of the "fire the head coach," "the line sucks, and "we're just an average team." But here's my take:

Sure the Steelers played down to an opponent that they should have blown out and they looked like they lacked passion and a desire to win. They didn't look anything like the team that took the field against the Ravens and I'd be willing to bet Coach Tomlin didn't remind them that "the most violent team will win today." The line got pushed around and abused and the defense got him more than they delivered a hit.

With all that being said, it's not the end of the world or the end of the season. The line will be exposed several more times before the season is over but they're not as bad as they looked yesterday. This defense is still among the league best. The offensive gameplan can be tweaked to mask some the offensive line problems with a better short passing game. This is still a team that, when they play thier game, they can play with anybody in this league.

If one play sums up yesterday's game it was running a draw play on 3rd and 14 in OT with Carey Davis (as Blitz already mentioned). At a point in the game where you either 'play to win' or 'play to lose,' that play call was pathetic. Bottom line it's one game out of 16 and they'll still play another game next weekend.

"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Nov 19, 2007 11:11 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
The 2007 Steelers deserve better than doom and gloom even if its the first emotion that one feels at the moment. But I felt a confirmation w.r.t. lowering my own expectations for this year after the loss to the Jets. A division championship and one playoff win are still likely. And they are to be enjoyed no doubt. But if the possibility of winning super bowls is what really excites you, then that hope faded a bit more after yesterday's performance.

by santhome on Nov 19, 2007 12:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

very true man
We want Super Bowls, not divisional titles over the Browns. But still, all you can do is give yourself a chance to make a run in the playoffs. And if you plan on being a fan in the future (which all of us obviously do), you can follow the team both in the present with excitement and also with an eye to the future.

This team's definitely exciting now and we're young enough in so many areas that there's plenty of reason to be optimistic about the future. Not like the Rooneys are going to fail to address the O-line this offseason.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 19, 2007 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Reality Check
Greetings.  First time responding to this blog so here goes: First let me state catagorically that I love the Steelers and football in general.  However, I have a strong dislike of bad football, even if practiced by our favorite team.  That game yesterday was pathetic in many ways but overall is best described as uninspired, undisciplined and poorly coached.  This team looks terrible at times but has been terrible on the road throughout, with the exception of the first Cleveland game.  Why?  Because the coaching staff does not have the players prepared to win.  That means making tough decisions, decisions the players may not like.  Issues:
a) Roethlisberger has more input into the offense and it shows - deep routes, multiple rec'v. sets and lack of commitment to run the ball.  They can't run it because they aren't commited to running the ball like they were in the past.  It's a mind set and requires practice time, time against 8 and 9 men in the box.  Big Ben made the comments himself - he feels more free and is treated 'like a man' etc.  He isn't paid to make team decisions, he's paid to play QB.  Well, teams are starting to challenge Ben's ability to hurt them when they gang up on the run game and he isn't killing them for it.  The other thing is his penchant for holding onto the ball and then losing it once hit.  He needs to take care of the ball better, that is his responsibility.  His fumble and interception were totally on him, he had just evaded the man who caused the fumble and the INT was a bad ball.

b)  Polamalu and the whole secondary are either out of control or passive when rallying to the ball.  Troy doesn't look like the same player as in 2005, he seems slower and is taking big risks trying to make something happen.  Sometimes that has huge consequences.  I think Ike Taylor is too inconsistent. He gives up the short out way too easy but still gets beat deep when playing with a big cushion - makes no sense.  Yesterday I was screaming for him to get to the football in the 4th qtr but he seems content to let others make the tackle... when the receiver is catching the ball and getting both the first down and out of bounds - where is the playside corner?  I don't expect him to prevent the catch each time but get involved!

c) Pass rush is poor and inconsistent.  Le Beau is a great scheme guy, but there is definetly a time and place for 4 D-linemen.  I have been hoping they would blend that in over the past couple years.  When Foote and others rush from off the edge, they are usually ridden deep and outside by the OT.  Harrison is by far the best pass rusher of the LB's.  His play is exemplary but the others are over-running the ball carrier and tackling is getting worse as the season continues.

d) O Line is just bad.  Mahan is forced to single block by any defensive coordinator with a clue and it's big trouble for the offense.  If he can't handle the guy solo, the scheme must adapt to help him. If they are bringing more people than the 5 OL can handle, then the QB needs to audible to a better play or go hot and make it hurt.  The linemen look confused more than in the past ie: coaching is a component here.  With Fanaka on the way out the door, it looks worse for next season.

e)  Tomlin like Cowher before him is a coach with a pretty good team.  Athletically, they are superior to many.  They should not be losing games to teams like the Jets.  The Bronco's loss is looking worse with time and is telling.  The Steelers may not beat the Patriots and that is undestandable given what the Pats have.  But if they play and coach like this against NE, it's going to be embarassing.  Belichek is going to rub their nose in it if he gets the chance.  He'll be out to prove that he can out-coach this Steelers coach just like the last one.

Why is T Carter (#23) not playing more?  The guy looks fast and furious every time he plays.  Harrison is a stud and looks like Def MVP already.  Washington (#85) has played pretty well when given the chance, where's C Wilson most of the time?  Rossum is not getting it done, Holmes would be great if not for threat of injury.  

"Franz" in NoCal

by franz on Nov 19, 2007 1:19 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Better the Jets than the Dolphins
I was really worried about this game coming in.  The Jets were and are far better than 1-8. The Steelers have played well in emotional games and this game had no real emotion behind it for the Steelers where as the Jets are looking to prove they're a good team.

A few other thoughts:
-I still think this is the best defense in the NFL. The only big contender I see is Green Bay.  Their front four are ridiculous right now.  One game's poor tackling doesn't change the stats the Steelers have been putting up.  They forced field goals when needed and shored up the run defense by the 4th.  One note I heard while listening to the Steelers radio broadcast was that the majority of the good runs came against our nickel and dime when they ran the spread offenses.  By the 4th quarter LeBeau was leaving Hampton in till 3rd downs no matter what the package was.  I hope this adjustment stays in place.  

-When the opponent is starting on the 30 or so everytime, I'm fine with the pooch.  Too many teams are getting burnt this year by good returners.  A team with a solid defense like the Steelers should be more concerned with big plays then better than average starting position.

-And like everyone else, I hate the Davis draw in OT.  

-I miss Russ Grimm as an O-Line coach, but not as a Head Coach.

by Chicago Steeler on Nov 19, 2007 1:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

greetings
Thanks for jumping in.
c) Pass rush is poor and inconsistent.  Le Beau is a great scheme guy, but there is definetly a time and place for 4 D-linemen.  I have been hoping they would blend that in over the past couple years.  When Foote and others rush from off the edge, they are usually ridden deep and outside by the OT.  Harrison is by far the best pass rusher of the LB's.  His play is exemplary but the others are over-running the ball carrier and tackling is getting worse as the season continues.
Yup, the rush is weak. Wouldn't be surprised if we adopted some 4-linemen looks next year. Tackling was very poor, but I don't think it's been a trend as of late. We'll see what happens as it gets colder and guys get more and more dinged up.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 19, 2007 1:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Good Points All
I've enjoyed everyone's point of view on this. We can all agree to disagree on some things. We all agree that OL and special teams continue to be the bugaboos with this team. I still think when you lose 3 games on the road against bad teams that you should beat, that is a big red flag.

Instead of pooch-kicking to teams with great returners, how about putting people out there who will stay in there lanes, get off blocks and make a tackle? You still have L. Foote, Kiesel and Troy P. that you haven't used on kickoff and punt coverage. The bottom line is that special teams can be fixed this season. It's too bad the OL cannot be.

There are a lot of posts that says that the Steelers OL will collapse if they don't resign Faneca. Well, it looks pretty bad with him right now. Instead of making Fancea the highest paid guard in the league, like he wants, how about using that money to rebuild the line like Tomlin wants. There's a reason why Starks hasn't played this year. Ben would be on the sidelines instead of on the field if he did. Starks just can't move his feet well enough to be a tackle that you can depend on.

Mahan, Simmons and Colon have all looked shaky these past two games. Mahan gave up 3 sacks to a NT who only had 1/2 sack before yesterday's game. Sean Ellis treated Colon like a turnstile for a good portion of yesterday's game. I'm a homer but also a realist. The Jets game exposed all the weaknesses of this team yesterday. You have to give Mangini a lot of credit. I still love Tomlin as a coach. He has his hands full in overcoming a lot of these issues.

by datruth4life on Nov 19, 2007 5:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

one thing
I don't want to come off as overly homer-ific. This site is a haven for loyal, but objective fans. When you look at this team objectively, you have no choice but to come to the conclusion that there are some major flaws.

I just happen to believe as well that when you look around the league objectively, nobody outside of New England has a team without at least one major flaw.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 19, 2007 5:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Stiller Woes
Yes, they do have some flaws.  I believe he has this year and next to make a run.  After that it's going to be tough to stay in the playoffs.  The current roster has a short shelf life.  Ward is the heart and soul of the team but isn't going to be fast enough to play at starting Z much longer.  He will have to become a #2 rec'v. in the slot - not such a bad thing, but he and a number of others are slowing down.

My biggest concerns with Tomlin coming in were his relative lack of experience and a team full of good players who would be hard to influence quickly.  The Steelers had two long term coaches in Grimm and Whiz who were popular and had credibility with the players.  Not only were they not hired but they no longer coach in Pitt.  That relates to my earlier comment about Ben and him feeling more involved etc.. Maybe that's good but it may also be bad.  Maybe he's not as smart as he thinks he is.  The guy is still young and his play shows it at times.  Elway complained about Dan Reeves, all the while compiling season after season of stats and playoff losses.  How much of a hindrance could Reeves be when Elway puts up record numbers?  Elway won two SB's behind a strong running game, not because Shanahan let him throw it 45 times a game.

Arians seems good at times but alternately clueless.  An OC has to feel the rhythm of the game and keep the defense off balance.  That comes from executing your plays and mixing up the plays which are called.  Right now they can't execute.  Bad offenses can't score because they never find that rhythm, the defense keeps them off balance.  The Steelers offense struggles when the run game is challenged.  Parker comes out of the game in med. to long yardage, so the defense doesn't have to defend him anymore - why?  He is certainly the fastest back - you can't leave him in and only run the same screen pass (almost always to the left) since 2005.  Too predictable.  If he's in all the time - who knows what you're going to call.

That and the Rooney Rule, which undoubtedly had an influence on the hiring.  Think about the team which led the charge in requiring a minority candidate, not hiring one.  I think mgmt. felt the pressure to hire a minority coach.  Tomlin could be the next Lombardi, but because of the Rooney Rule his career as Steelers HC will be judged as suspect if he doesn't win big.  That is unfair to all involved, especially him.  These types of rules are thought of as noble but ultimately keep the water muddy.  

"Franz" in NoCal

by franz on Nov 20, 2007 10:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

window is closing?
You really think the Steelers window is closing in just a couple of years? I thought this was actually a pretty young team. These are the positions that are young IMO: QB, RB, TE, WR, FS, SS, CB, and OLB. The OL and possibly DL are the only units that I could see getting old anytime soon. The OL should get a huge makeover during the offseason, hopefully draft heavy and become a strong point during Ben's most productive years (late 20's). This team is pretty young and poised to be an AFC power for quite some time.
"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Nov 20, 2007 10:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

future bright
I agree golden. The depth and youth on this team should keep the Steelers in contention for the foreseeable future.

On offense, there's no reason to think Ben won't continue to improve and be among the league's best QBs for at least another six or seven years. They will need another top WR in a couple years and a new feature RB not long after that -- or sooner if FWP doesn't get his feet moving and start making a few people miss. Anybody can run through big holes but FWP is going down way too easily lately. The only challenge is the offensive line, which might require a new assistant coach along with 2-3 new starting bodies as soon as next season. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2010 starting lineup includes an O-line that has five different starters than those you see today. Possibly Marvel Smith will still be around but moved to RT.

On defense the only apparent future needs are an elite RCB and depth on the defensive line to accommodate more use of a four-man line.  Age is not an issue at any position except in the case of Townsend and, to a lesser extent, Aaron Smith. Woodley and posssibly Timmons will be in the starting lineup next year. Townsend is near the end but McFadden might be an adequate (or better) replacement.

As for Tomlin and the Rooney rule, it is a non-issue in my mind. The guy has been on an express elevator to a head coaching position for 4-5 years and nothing has happened to make me think he is not capable of being a successful head coach.  We might see some assistant coaching changes next year but that is normal for a new head coach as he analyzes the ability of his staff to execute his vision of a successful team.  He will learn from this year and be a better head coach in year two. In the meantime I for one don't believe his youth or relative inexperience or Rooney Rule ''advantage'' have hurt the Steelers at all.

by steeler lifer on Nov 20, 2007 12:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

totally agree on Tomlin
Maybe we were all a bit too impressed with Tomlin to think he was going to walk into his first head coaching job and not make any mistakes. Overall though he's been pretty good and I see great things in his future and this franchise.
"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Nov 20, 2007 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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