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Steelers TKO Two Miami Running Backs: Ricky Williams Done For The Year, Chatman Hurt As Well

In no way am I gloating about this, and I'm assuming Lawrence Timmons feels worse than anybody. In fact, this news saddens me because I was happy to see Ricky Williams back in the NFL. But, his comeback sure didn't last long. The Palm Beach Post is reporting that Ricky Williams is done for the year with a torn chest muscle. The injury is expected to take nearly 4 months to recover from.

I've heard some grumblings about Lawrence Timmons intentionally stepping on Williams. I don't buy it for one second. In my estimation, Ricky was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and got stepped on by a 250 pound man who was probably wearing longer spikes than usual.

No report yet on Jesse Chatman, who also left last's night game with an injury. Tough, tough break for the Dolphins. They're down to their 4th string back at this point. When it rains, it pours, and unfortunately for the Miami organization and their fans, sunny skies are nowhere to be found on the horizon.

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Bad break for the Dolphins
It'll be interesting to see what they do with Ricky in the offseason.
"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Nov 27, 2007 3:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Chatman
Anthony Smith blew him up on that play. It almost could've been called helmet to helmet though.

by schnifin on Nov 27, 2007 4:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Too bad for Ricky
I wonder what they'll do, too.  How old is he now?  But, they'll probably keep him.  I think he is making the league minimum due to his "retirement," so they don't have too much invested him, other than the signing bonus.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Nov 27, 2007 7:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Timmons "crunch" was intentional
Despite being a full Steeler fan as my car will attest (forus.com/xl/IMG_0004.jpg), my head is not in the sand. This is an embarrassment, up there with the quality of our field, as far as I am concerned.

If you think Timmons did not do it on purpose then you did not look (or are blinded). I replayed it 20 or more times, in high def frame by frame, and the broadcast shot from the front (not replayed much) is clear an conclusive: Timmons looked at Ricky and went out of his way to step on him intentionally to stop Ricky from moving towards the lose ball so that Timmons could assure fumble recovery.

It was malicious, and if he is not fined it is because Miami has not complained.

If Timmons is sorry, it is retrospective guilt - not being bummed at side effects of an unintentional mishap.

And don't give me "these things happen", or you have not watched it. Sometimes these things do happen unintentionally in a high-speed monster-man game. But not in this case: Timmons was in the zone, working at super human speed, and it is clear when you really look at it that he knew what he was doing.

by daball on Nov 28, 2007 1:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

well
I don't have DVR or a high-def TV so I can't speak authoritatively about it - perhaps I sounded too certain in my post, but from the two or three looks I got from ESPN's replays, I couldn't see anything that signaled an intentional malicious act.

If it was, I'd be disgusted. I'd be disappointed and embarassed if any player did it, but especially coming from Timmons, who's not been able to get on the field much this year despite being a top 15 pick.

Question though, if it was obvious, why wouldnt the Dolphins do anything about it?

by Blitzburgh on Nov 28, 2007 2:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Questionable
This reminds me of complaints about officiating and why we have instant replay.  There's a big difference between game speed and slow motion or going frame by frame in HD.  Even if he was looking at Ricky, it's entirely possible that he was unable to move his foot to miss him at gamespeed.  While, in slow mo HD it looks obviously intentional.  It may have been intentional, but like Blitzburgh said, you never know what little dirty things are being pulled on the field that are missed.  It's football.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Nov 28, 2007 2:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

one more thing
Don't players (Steelers, Benglas, Patriots, Jack Lambert, Franco Harris) all do little dirty things out there on the field? Ever wondered what goes on out there under those huge piles? I don't think you can do something truly malicious at that speed when you're talking about going after a loose ball. Was it a dirty move (if intentional)? Yea, but I wouldn't say it was 'malicious'.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 28, 2007 2:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

daball no way
On that turf, there's no way of knowing if Timmons was in total control of his footwork. The other foot prior to the stepping on Williams might have sunk or slipped or caught on some sod. It's unfortunate but to accuse an anxious rookie staring at a FR of intentionally stepping on Williams is way over the top.

And yes of course players get intentionally gouged, punched, clipped, rolled onto from behind and earholed. This is not beach volleyball. Good hustle by Timmons and obviously no fine should result. No Dolphin was upset at the time and their later reaction tells all you need to know.

by steeler lifer on Nov 28, 2007 2:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well, one more thing...
I would say it has only been a couple days; but even at that there may be many reasons Miami might not do anything. Perhaps they don't want to look like they are whining (all the better to wait a bit before raising the issue, thus really addressing the issue than just making it a publicity thing, rather than being public about it), or perhaps they are distracted and/or don't care.

And, yes I concur, there are plenty of non-game related nasties all the time (and frankly we like it). However, that is not any reason for the league to ignore them, or for us to pretend they are "unintentional" and players are "sorry for a mistake". A line needs to keep it in check, even if we might like kickboxing-football. As with most such activity, I think they are better handled "behind the scene" (fine him, and talk with him out of the public eye). While there are many such incidents, the majority of play is above board, and only the NFL players need to be directly kept in check - I don't think public ridicule is productive to keep play in check.

Was it "malicious"? Well it was somewhere in there, but the word definition detail are a distraction not worth much discussion. He knew he put his foot there on purpose, even if motivated by adrenaline, and it caused serious injury as a professional should expect such an action would. He must be intentionally "not-so-malicious" as a pro, or they will kill each other out there beyond the passive damage. They should hit hard, with intention to overpower and do damage, but they all know there are right ways and wrong ways - they are all tough enough to "cheat" and kill each other without difficulty.

As noted, Simons' hit was also wrong, but a bit less calculated - he was at least making a legitimate tackle. Simmons could have turned his head, but did not (at least not intentionally, I am surprised Simmons own neck was not broken when it turned back at high speed). And, he is supposed to know to do that. As you say, it happens all the time, including the facemask to Hines also in the same game.

Mostly, I wouldn't bring it up accept to contradict statements that claim this "step" was not intentional. It was not OK, and not "just a mistake", and that is my only point.

Tangent: "no way" side note: yes there is. You have not watched it, or are blinded.
Tangent: "Questionable": he looked and then "redirected" to set his foot very specifically. It was intentional. That is why we have replay, because we are not as fast as these super-men.

The better point here is: how do you live without HD and DVR (you one of those Cavemen)?

by daball on Nov 28, 2007 2:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

lol
The irony is I have an HDTV downstairs at my house but its in the room of my gf's parents, who were contributors in the purchase of our house. They keep a room for when they are in town like 10 days a year and have a sick TV - total waste for how little they are here. I could go down there and watch in HD, but there's no seating besides a bed. I choose not to snuggle up with my friends who come over to watch my Sunday Ticket. I don't apologize for that decision either.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 28, 2007 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe
I'm not saying it wasn't intentional.  I'm just saying I'm not willing to jump to that conclusion based on replay.  With speed of the game, field conditions, etc., I can think of reasonable explanations for what you saw on replay other than that it was intentional.  The other thing is I'd have to go back and watch the replay myself, and while I do have a DVR, I didn't record this game because, unlike the Ravens game, I didn't think it would be one I really wanted to go back and watch over and over.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Nov 28, 2007 3:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It may not be clear if you have not seen it...
I never made this clear...

Many comments seem to imply that people think that Ricky was in Timmons' possible normal path... he was not. When seen from the front angle (the frist broadcast reply), it is clear Timmons' path and motion was not over Ricky.

Timmons' path was already in the direction towards the ball, up field from Ricky (a shorter path than over Ricky). That includes Timmons' momentum. Timmons redirected to get to Ricky, to stop Ricky, and then pushed back to his original path to the ball using Ricky's momentum.

It is clear. It happened. When you see it, it is not debatable. How important it is is debatable, but it did cost a guy the rest of his year, even if you are not a Ricky fan.

Hey, Timmons' move made sense, but that does not make it "unintentional" or "right". Since this is a major point of the starting of this thread, I will harp on it (but only here).

by daball on Nov 28, 2007 3:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ok, I'll take your word for it
You had the best view of any of us that are posting, so I'll take your word for it.  We'll just hope this was youthful stupidity and not a pattern.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Nov 28, 2007 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm almost positive that I still have it recorded
And I'll definitely be checking when I get home.

Just off the top of my head though, it wouldn't make sense for a guy to go out of his way to step on a player instead of going straight for a fumble. If it is in fact true, I'd have to think it has more to do with a lack of intelligence than maturity. I can't imagine a guy would literally redirect his path at full speed to step on an opponent and run the risk of not recovering a fumble.

"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Nov 28, 2007 3:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The footage... (tinyurl.com/2fekwz)
Damn, I did not record it either.

However, a quick search brings up some low quality footage at www.faniq.com, and the combination of the frames at "-30" and also at "-20" show how far the ball was ahead, that Simmons saw the whole deal, and then how far he had to direct his leg to get Ricky.

You need both angles to be undeniably sure, but the conclusion is clear (even more so with HD quality footage).

tinyurl.com/2fekwz  (goes to www.faniq.com)

Again, Timmons did not need to "avoid" Ricky to be "OK". What he needed to was not go out of his way to jam Ricky in the back.

I've had my bit, and will shut up now. You be the judge.

by daball on Nov 28, 2007 3:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

saw the clip
Several things:

1) it's possible that he needed to step on ricky to change directions and propel himself towards the ball

2)he may have thought stepping on ricky would give him better traction than on that sloppy turf.

But I gotta admit, you're right, it looks as if he could have avoided Ricky if he had tried. Like you said, it's debatable whether this was really malicious or unacceptable for a football field, but I think it's clear that he could have avoided him if he absolutely had to. I'm very very disappointed Ricky got hurt - I'm from Austin and have followed Williams since college - but I'm also not that pissed off at Timmons for trying to make a play.  

by Blitzburgh on Nov 28, 2007 3:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

also on the clip
If you look at the second replay that they show on the clip, it looks like he has to extend his leg to not step on Harrison (#92). It does look very akward but only Mr Timmons really knows if that was intentional. For the record, I'll agree with Blitz about Ricky probably was the best traction and if it took a 'Ricky springboard' to get the fumble, I don't have a major problem with it.
"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Nov 28, 2007 4:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

New light, saw the clip
This is what I saw:  Timmons was coming in fast from Ricky's right and when he saw the fumble he stuck his foot out to change directions.  He was moving east-west and needed to change to directions to north-south to go for the fumble.  From what I could tell his options to miss Ricky would have required him to either step short of Ricky, which probably would have caused him to flip over Ricky and maybe break his own leg, or he could have tried to hurdle Ricky, which would have taken him away from the ball.

Now that I've that seen it, I really don't see the CLEAR evidence of intentional wrongdoing.  

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Nov 28, 2007 5:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

thats how i saw it too
And more I think about it, I just can't imagine Miami wouldnt make a big stink about it if they felt it was intentional. When Albert Haynesworth intentionally stepped on somebody last year he was blasted by the NFL, his organization, and by the media.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 28, 2007 6:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Haynesworth
That was more of a stomp and clearly intentional and malicious. As daball noted, these things are handled internally and, if Timmons deliberately intended to use Ricky as a launching pad to the ball, I'm sure Lebeau, Aaron Smith and others will get the message across to him that what goes around comes around. Miami's job is to take care of its players and therefore it is their responsibility to bring perceived injustices to the league's attention.  They have decided not to, at least to this point in time. His agent Leigh Steinberg could also make a stink about this but nothing from him either. His comment: ''Unfortunately, injuries are part of the game and his return was in the most extreme conditions."

This was a ball-pursuit play in the course of action on a terrible surface. I've reviewed the play and I don't think you can ascribe malicious intent to a split-second physical reaction on a bad surface. You could argue it was recklessly careless but this is football and rarely does a running step on someone result in a debilitating injury. It is certainly not unusual for players, especially linemen, to get stepped on in the course of play and that's just part of the game. A lineman will look at this play and say, ''well that's too bad but ... you should see MY cleat marks.''

by steeler lifer on Nov 29, 2007 12:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

yea, no story here
In Tomlin's words: 'The most violent team will win'. That doesn't mean dirty, but you don't stop and worry about having to avoid somebody during a play that lasts about 5 seconds.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 29, 2007 2:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Timmons must be a BTSC reader
Timmons must be an avid 'Curtain reader as he addressed the "Ricky step" recently (sure they said the heat came from Miami radio but I'm sure BTSC had more to do with it). hehe
"When you are running fast all I saw was the ball," said Timmons. "I was going at that the whole time. I would never do anybody like that. I am not a dirty player, I have way more respect for the game than that. I definitely wouldn't do anything to a player like that with the way he just came back and having gone through all of the stuff he went through. No way, I would never do that."
"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Nov 30, 2007 10:12 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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