Ben Roethlisberger vs. The NFL QB Crop
We looked at the RBs. Then did so more closely. Now, a gander at the QBs in the National Football League. Again, this is just subjective opining from me, and I'm not evaluating careers, just who I think is the better bet at QB for the future.
The Gold Standard
Tom Brady, New England Patriots: Sure he has an inherent advantage every time out, you know, with all the insider information he is armed with. But his ability to get rid of the ball quickly, and deliver such catachable footballs with pin-point precision, is nearly unrivaled. The stats, records, and SBs all qualify him as a can't miss Hall of Famer. Edge: Brady
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts: Will probably go down as the greatest pocket passing QB in NFL history, especially if he can win one or two more SBs. The records will definitely be all his. Can he get it done in the postseason a few more times? Edge Manning
Tier 1 - Franchise QBs
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers: I know we've all see Big Ben play plenty, so I'll keep this brief. I think that Roethlisberger can go down as the greatest Steelers QB ever but for now, there's still plenty to work on. Namely, throwing the ball away, protecting his body as he enters the middle and later stages of his career, and not making the costly turnover when everything's on the line. He did it against Arizona this past year, and then the problem that plagued him all of 2006 resurfaced in the first half of the Jacksonville game. Let's see him eliminate some of those mistakes, while continuing to make plays with his arm and feet, before we're ready to mention him in the same breath as Manning and Brady. For my money, there's not many, if any at all as you'll see, that I'd rather have at QB than Big Ben. His dearth of experience, both positive and negative, his playoff experience, plus his age and unique skill set all give us plenty of reason to believe that our organization will be extremely compeititve for quite some time.
Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints: I actually think this is a very tough call. Obviously I'd take Ben's play-making ability with his feet over Brees' any day, and the physical differences between the two are substantial - Brees stands at 6'0" (generously) vs. Roethlisberger's 6'5". But I'm not sure there are many better QBs when given time than Brees, and that's including Manning and Brady. Brees is probably the most accurate pure passer in the game, and he does a fantastic job getting rid of the ball quickly when nothing's there, as evidenced by his astoundingly low number of sacks for the only so-so line he plays behind. If you need proof that Brees is unbelievably accurate, take a look at his completion %'s from the past four years. His lowest makr? 64.3%. Wow. Don't discredit the fact that Brees has basically played a ginormous role in turning around two moribound franchises this decade. Edge: Brees
Carson Palmer, Cincinnati Bengals: If you had asked me this a year ago, I would have given the nod to Palmer. But I was unimpressed with his play this year. He's still as good as anybody on any given day, but did you know that his 20 INTs were tied for the most in the league in 2007? Palmer is still a QB the Bengals should feel blessed to have, but like Big Ben did in 2007, he'll need to rebound in 2008 to again have his name mentioned as one of the 3-5 best QBs in the league. Palmer will turn 29 in December of this year. It's time for him to take a few steps forward as a leader and as a winning QB in this league. Edge: Big Ben
Tier 1A - Franchise QBs With Something To Prove
Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys: I made up the silly category Tier 1A for guys like Romo, David Garrard, and Marc Bulger. These are QBs who either earn, or will soon earn, top dollar, but in my mind, are not yet quite as accomplished as their brethren above them, or who have had their careers stalled by injuries. Let's start with Romo. Find all the comparison between Big Ben and Tony in this comment thread and decide for yourself. For my money, I'd take Big Ben though I have ample respect for what Romo can do on the field. I'm not one to judge by such a small sample of playoff games (it's for this reason why I think Schottenheimer is given one of the most unfair raps in all of sports), but I still think Romo has got lots to learn and not as much time as Roetlisberger to get it done (let alone experience at this point). Romo did put up huge yardage and TD numbers, but his 19 INTs and 10 fumbles leave plenty of room for Romo to shore up his game. Romo turns 28 in late April. Will he figure it out soon enough to put up big numbers and lead the Cowboys to the Promised Land while he's still in his physical prime? Edge: Big Ben
Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia Eagles: When he's healthy, he still can lead a team as good as anybody. With Chris Webbeter retiring from the NBA yesterday, now might be a good time to compare the two. Both incredible talents who seemed to have everything going for them when they first entered the league. But a string of playoff disappointments, plus injuries, derailed both of their careers from the glorious destinies they seemed to be heading towards. Now, it's not clear if McNabb will ever be able to recover fully enough to lead his team to a SB again and cement himself as one of the better QBs to play in the league in the past 20 years. Instead, he'll likely go down as one of those infamous 'what could have been' type athletes that probably don't get a fair shake when they are judged after the fact. Edge: Roethlisberger (for the future; let's just hope Big Ben can reach the heights Donovan did in his hey-day)
Marc Bulger, St. Louis Rams: Before last year's disastrous season, Bulger had posted only one season with below a 90 QB rating (2003), and 0 seasons with a completion % under 62%. The guy can throw the ball when he has a running game to compliment him and an offensive line that can keep him one piece. It did not in 2008. Did you know that Bulger had 37 sacks in just 12 games last year? Give him a few more games and he most certainly surpasses Big Ben's ridiculous 47 sacks in 2007. Bulger, who makes big bucks, turns 31 next week. I can't see how the Rams are able to stay competitive enough to maximize the next several years of Bulger's career. If they are not, he'll likely be just a mere footnote in the annals of NFL history, a poor man's Drew Brees of sorts. If the Rams are able to keep him upright, Bulger still has the big arm and instinctual prowess in the pocket to post more 3500+ yard seasons, something he's done 3 times in his career compared to just once at this point for Roethlisberger. Still, when you factor in age + mobility + playoff experience, only a fool would select Bulger to lead their organization in 2008 and beyond over Roethlisberger. Edge: Big Ben
David Garrard, Jacksonville Jaguars: I'm awfully hesitant to put David Garrard in this class of QBs based on his skimpy resume, but I'm also willing to acknowledge that in some respects, he's as good a QB as an organization can hope to have outside of the top 2 guys, Manning and Brady. The stats aren't there for Garrard at this point, and given his age, they most likely never will be. But that's more a product of circumstance and opportunity rather than ability. Since been given the chance, Garrad has been oustanding, especially protecting the football. I absolutely abhor the term 'managing games' as a QB - it usually means the QB stinks and can't be trusted to throw the ball. But in Garrard's case, he does actually fit the bill. He's capable of throwing the ball on 3rd down accurately and efficiently, and when nothing's there, he almost robotically decides to turn things back over to his defense rather than taking a sack or throwing a pick, something our boy Roethlisberger has yet to master. In his last 27 games as a starter, Garrard has thrown just 13 picks, including a league low of 3 in 2007. His 7.7 yards per attempt were only .1 fewer than Roethlisberger's and good for 7th best in the league. At 30 years old however, I can't say I'd take him for the long haul. Maybe, for the absolute immediate future, but only if my team was as complete in other departments like Jacksonville's team is. Pittsburgh's is not, meaning we need more big-play capability from our QB, something I believe Roethlisberger holds the advantage over Garrard on. Edge: Big Ben
Matt Hasselback, Seattle Seahawks: Some like Matt's game more than others. I'm not sure precisely how I view him as a QB in this league. Looking at his career stats, I basically conclude that he's a safe, proven commodity, but not necessarily one that's talented enough to single-handedly lead your team to greatness come playoff time or under tough circumstances against the league's best teams. Here's basically what you're going to get out of Hasselback every year: 58-63 completion %, 20-25 TDs, 12-15 INTs, and roughly 3,500 yards passing. Hard to dismiss that type of production over the course of a career, but at the same time, there are no oustanding outliers amongst his season totals. There's no 30+ TD seasons, only one season with a QB rating over 95, and only two for that matter over 90 (including last year, when he posted a 91.4 rating for the year). When we played Hasselback (without Clark or Polamalu mind you), I saw a QB who looked confused, emotionally frustrated, and incapable of stabilizing his team on a day when the group desperately needed some fire and emotional uplifting. Matt turns 33 next season. I imagine he'll continue his solid play for several more years, but I just don't see him as a franchise-savior type QB like Brees, Roethlisberger, Brady and Manning. That said, he's still one of the better QBs in a league filled with mediocre signal callers. Hasselback has led his team to the playoffs for a number of years now, so if we're going by career accomplishments, he belongs near the top for his entire body of work. When selecting for the future however, it's a different story. Edge: Roethlisberger
Tier 2 - Plenty to be optimistic about, but still question marks
Eli Manning, New York Giants: Let's start by giving Manning his due for a phenomenal late season run and for his remarkable poise, consistency, and leadership during the playoffs. If he can carry that type of play over to the regular season in forthcoming years, Manning will quickly catapult himself into Tier 1 in my mind. For now, he's not quite there, even though he deserves tremendous kudos for his durability, having started 48 games in the past three regular seasons. Even with his solid play late last year, Manning still tied for the league lead in picks, and again failed to post a QB rating over 80, something he's yet to do in his 4 year career. He's also failed to complete 60% of his passes for the year yet, or average at least 7 yards per pass attempt. Some of that can be explained by the rough weather he plays in; some can be attributed by the handcuffs his coaching staff put on him earlier in his career; and some can be explained by the fact that Tiki Barber anchored one of the league's best rushing attacks for his first three years in the league. However, that doesn't excuse him of all the poor decisions and bad mechanics he's displayed since being drafted #1 overall and refusing to play in San Diego. Just show us it wasn't a fluke Eli and we'll take you seriously for years to come. Cool? Cool. Edge: Big Ben
Phillip Rivers, San Diego Chargers: Time to make these assesments a bit shorter, now that we're down a bit on the food chain. Rivers has talent, we know that. But his mechanics are funky, his arm strength isn't as good as initially advertised, and he doesn't have the same calm demeanor that is needed at times to successfully lead an NFL offense over the course of an adverity riddled 16 game NFL season. His win-loss record is outstanding. And his wealth of college experience has seasoned him plenty for big moments, as we saw demonstrated in the playoffs and at times in 2006. We'll have to see how he fares as LT is phased out of the offense a smidge over the next 3-5 years. Edge: Big Ben
Matt Schaub, Houston Texans: Who knows. Has looked good at times as a starter, but a huge void in data makes it hard to assess this guy's potential. I'll put him here because he doesn't make a ton of mistakes, has a good command of the huddle, has a decent enough of an arm, and actually has the Texans thinking they're close to breaking through, something I'm not sure was ever possible. Edge: Big Ben
Yet to be determined but worthy of recognition
Vince Young, Tennessee Titans: Young, gaining experience, and much improved as a thrower, despite the hideousness of the statitistics. Bottome line is he's won a lot of games leading a very suspect collection of offensive talent.
Jay Cutler, Denver Broncos: Lots of talent; all the skills; prototypical frame and skill set. Zero history of winning tough tight games though. Denver has plenty to be optimistic about, but it's about time Cutler led a playoff march, even in the tough AFC.
Derek Anderson, Cleveland Browns: An enigma of sorts. Has looked All-World at times and All-Arena League bound at others. He's young and extremely raw. If he gets the mental part of the game down, he should settle in to a long NFL career somewhere. Then again, he might be one of those big-armed QBs (see Jeff George), who jumps from team to team over his career due to teams not quite wanting to invest their long-term future in him at QB.
Jon Kitna, Detroit Lions: Only mentioned because of his competitive spirit. On a one-game basis, he's an accpetable option capable of willing his team to victory. Over the long-haul, he's not consistent enough I don't believe to ever lead a team to sustained excellence over the course of multiple seasons. At his age, we pretty much know what to expect from him: lots of numbers, lots of sacks, plenty of printable quotes, and a losing team record.
********
I'm out of time for now. Who else might deserve to be in one of these tiers. I raced through this due to time constraints, so it's entirely possible I've left out a very obvious name.
0 recs |
63 comments
Comments
Nice analysis
by BadMaafala on Mar 27, 2008 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to know
What have they accomplished to be ranked higher and in a separate tier, makes no sense to me.
by Terry on Mar 27, 2008 5:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
garrad, romo
by Blitzburgh on Mar 27, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know
by TheMostViolentTeam on Mar 27, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
although
by TheMostViolentTeam on Mar 27, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not career accomplishments
You're somehwat correct though that Palmer belongs in the same class as those guys in Tier 1A. He too has question marks.
But I clearly stated that guys like McNabb and Hasselback have had the best careers, only that they are either older or injury riddled.
As for Brees, his numbers are gawdy, he's missed hardly any games, he;s lead two terrible teams to the playoffs including the NFC title game.
by Blitzburgh on Mar 27, 2008 6:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
IMO
Personally, I would rank them as follows, based not on numbers or rings, but just QBs I would want leading my team if I needed a win.
Romo
Hasselbeck
Brees
Garrard
Palmer
Roethlisberger
Bulger
McNabb
by Terry on Mar 27, 2008 11:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What?
by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is tiresome
Time for Terry to return to his silver and blue playpen.
by steeler lifer on Mar 28, 2008 3:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thats really funny
by Terry on Mar 28, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My take on a few guys
Palmer - He's in danger of being nothing more than just a name, in my opinion. He still has all the tools but I fear his abilities less each time we play the Bengals. That and the fact that he's only guided his team to one winning season during his four years as a starter are enough for me to question his skills as a quarterback and more importantly a leader.
Romo - Until he reels in his game a bit, I'll still think of him as a young Farve. Just keep the game close and he'll give you a cheap turnover before it's over.
Bulger - I've always wondered if he's really a good quarterback or just a product of the environment. Either way, I wouldn't need half a second to pick Big Ben.
Hasselback - I don't know what it is about him but I've never feared Hasselback at all. He just seems like a decent quarterback with absolutely nothing special.
VY - I like him because he's from Texas and he seems like a great, great leader. His performance in the Rose Bowl is one of the greatest single game performance's I've ever seen, but he's shown nothing to make me think he's a NFL quarterback yet.
by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 8:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
eli
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not that stats are everything, but...
by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense
by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
palmer or anderson
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eli vs. ben last 3 years
Ben 84 TD's 11673 yards 54 int passer rating 92%
Both have one super bowl
both good QB's
with the exception of the passer rating it's pretty close. So i ask you what makes Ben teir 1 and Eli teir 2?
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
comparison
by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
Ben 63.2 completion%, 8.1 yards per attempt, 208.4yards per game.
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's your answer
You can't even say that Eli is getting better since his interceptions have increased every year he's been a starter. He threw less touchdowns and had a lower QB rating in 07 than he did in either 05 or 06. He didn't set a single career high except for interceptions and passing attempts.
by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...
by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
look
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We hear you
It is kind of comforting that a division rival would favor a marginal-at-best quarterback over other Pro Bowl level players.
by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
opinion
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I see what you're saying though Blitz. If he shows almost anything in the next season he'll get an auto-bump in just about everyone's rankings. His play in the superbowl was impressive, but he still tried to give the game away a few times (paging Asante Samuel's usually good hands, are you in the building?).
All told I'd put him up above Garrad, Hasslebeck, and McNabb at this point.
by Chicago Steeler on Mar 28, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: agreed
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on
In Brees' 6 seasons as a starter he's only had one with a QB rating below 75, one with a completion % below 60, and three seasons with a yards per attempt over 7. Oh yea and he's thrown more touchdowns and less interception than Eli for every season that Eli has been a starter.
Palmer has never had a season with a QB rating below 77, a completion percentage below 60, and only his rookie season did his yards per attempt go below seven. With the same numbers of seasons as a starter Palmer's TD/INT ratio (104-63) blows Eli out of the water (77-64).
Sure Eli won a Super Bowl and thats a hell of an acomplishment but that doesn't mean he's a great quarterback. Fact is, without that on his resume he's probably down in the "Yet to be determind" tier.
by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you kidding me?
Bottom Line: Ben and Eli don't even compare.
by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
teir 1+2
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler vs Big Ben
How about the game versus Denver?
Where Denver won 31-28 kicking a FG as time expired? How is that not a tight game??
Elam is an obvious choice, as many in Denver might consider him the MVP of this team, but Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler completed 22 of 29 passes for 248 yards and three touchdowns. Cutler also had two interceptions, but the key was that Cutler didn't let the interceptions get to him. Cutler was good when he needed to be, including on the final drive, when he guided the Broncos into range for the game-winning kick.
by cutlerfan on Mar 28, 2008 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
cutler
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Denver Game
by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree
by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler?
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
VY's barely even a QB in my opinion
He was an amazing college QB and had an offense that couldn't have been more tailored to his skill set, but he's not a pro quarterback. He had a piss poor rookie season by nearly every measurable season except for wins and he followed it up with a season in which he threw 9 TD and 17 INTs (and he had half as many rushing TDs to lower his overall total even more). He's a great leader but not even an average QB yet.
by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
some other good young qb's
D.A.
Schaub
Rivers
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
others
Rivers and DA are both really close. I'd have to seen another season of DA before I put him above Cutler though. I'd probably say push on Rivers.
by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
young QB's
by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
unknown
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eli vs. Big Ben, Giants perspective
I have no real objection to you preferring Roethlisberger to Manning at this point. While it is very close, I came to the same conclusion in a recent post on the subject.
My problem with your entire post is that Eli, considering what he just did for the Giants, has to be in your Tier 1A -- if not higher.
To put him below Garrard, Bulger, Hasselbeck and a fading McNabb is dumbfounding. I don't know if it's ignorance, stupidity, or stubbornly clinging to the belief that he isn't very good, but he belongs higher on your list.
Also, I'm fine with you saying Big Ben is a franchise guy. But, you can't say Drew Brees is and Eli isn't. Eli performed as well as anyone ever has during a playoff run.
He outplayed Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo and Brett Favre on the road, then outplayed Tom Brady in the Super Bowl.
Don't insult the guy and David Garrard is a better player. Give me a break!
by ETVal on Mar 28, 2008 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Here we go again, but...
I think there is a good chance that Eli builds on the SB run and truly becomes a top 5ish QB, but there's no guarantee that he won't turn back to his old ways. He's done it before after putting together a nice stretch. Part of me is actually rooting for the guy to be a good QB, but you need more than a hot streak to be considered an elite QB. You, like CulterLover, come back in a year or two. We already have an elite QB.
by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ben
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats
I didn't realize you were an authority on bias.
by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
5 is elite?
by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eli
Garrard vs. Eli - Here's a stat just to chew on, Garrard thrown less interceptions over his 30 NFL starts than Eli has thrown in any full season. I'm not saying....I'm just saying.
by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To Big Blue and others
As for Ben. When he won fifteen straight games as a rookie everyone (outsiders) were saying it wasn't about him, he was being carried by a very good football team. When he led that historic (Yes, historic. Sixth seed to world champion. Who else has done that?)run to the SB including two magnificent performances AT Indianapolis (clearly outplayed Manning) and AT Denver (put up 24 in the first half with no running game to speak of), then the knock was his performance in the SB was subpar. Who won that damn game anyway? In his third year his performance drops due to a car accident and losing his appendix and he's labeled a fraud. Regains form this year, is second ranked qb in the league behind a suspect o-line and is considered over-rated as a top tier qb. Listen NYC, Cleveland, Dallas; the man is for real. You heard it here first.
by RickVa on Mar 28, 2008 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Plenty of Giants fans?
by HinesField on Mar 30, 2008 6:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wow
That's f'n hysterical.
by Blitzburgh on Mar 31, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until
by Burgernazi on Mar 31, 2008 12:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
by bereadawg on Mar 31, 2008 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Favre
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 31, 2008 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
....hold on
by bereadawg on Mar 31, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's ok :)
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 31, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Brett Favre
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 31, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
13 years
by bereadawg on Mar 31, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tough
by Burgernazi on Mar 31, 2008 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
good pts
by Blitzburgh on Mar 31, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

















