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Ben Roethlisberger vs. The NFL QB Crop

We looked at the RBs. Then did so more closely. Now, a gander at the QBs in the National Football League. Again, this is just subjective opining from me, and I'm not evaluating careers, just who I think is the better bet at QB for the future.

The Gold Standard

Tom Brady, New England Patriots: Sure he has an inherent advantage every time out, you know, with all the insider information he is armed with. But his ability to get rid of the ball quickly, and deliver such catachable footballs with pin-point precision, is nearly unrivaled. The stats, records, and SBs all qualify him as a can't miss Hall of Famer. Edge: Brady

Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts: Will probably go down as the greatest pocket passing QB in NFL history, especially if he can win one or two more SBs. The records will definitely be all his. Can he get it done in the postseason a few more times? Edge Manning

Tier 1 - Franchise QBs

Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers: I know we've all see Big Ben play plenty, so I'll keep this brief. I think that Roethlisberger can go down as the greatest Steelers QB ever but for now, there's still plenty to work on. Namely, throwing the ball away, protecting his body as he enters the middle and later stages of his career, and not making the costly turnover when everything's on the line. He did it against Arizona this past year, and then the problem that plagued him all of 2006 resurfaced in the first half of the Jacksonville game. Let's see him eliminate some of those mistakes, while continuing to make plays with his arm and feet, before we're ready to mention him in the same breath as Manning and Brady. For my money, there's not many, if any at all as you'll see, that I'd rather have at QB than Big Ben. His dearth of experience, both positive and negative, his playoff experience, plus his age and unique skill set all give us plenty of reason to believe that our organization will be extremely compeititve for quite some time.

Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints: I actually think this is a very tough call. Obviously I'd take Ben's play-making ability with his feet over Brees' any day, and the physical differences between the two are substantial - Brees stands at 6'0" (generously) vs. Roethlisberger's 6'5". But I'm not sure there are many better QBs when given time than Brees, and that's including Manning and Brady. Brees is probably the most accurate pure passer in the game, and he does a fantastic job getting rid of the ball quickly when nothing's there, as evidenced by his astoundingly low number of sacks for the only so-so line he plays behind. If you need proof that Brees is unbelievably accurate, take a look at his completion %'s from the past four years. His lowest makr? 64.3%. Wow. Don't discredit the fact that Brees has basically played a ginormous role in turning around two moribound franchises this decade. Edge: Brees

Carson Palmer, Cincinnati Bengals: If you had asked me this a year ago, I would have given the nod to Palmer. But I was unimpressed with his play this year. He's still as good as anybody on any given day, but did you know that his 20 INTs were tied for the most in the league in 2007? Palmer is still a QB the Bengals should feel blessed to have, but like Big Ben did in 2007, he'll need to rebound in 2008 to again have his name mentioned as one of the 3-5 best QBs in the league. Palmer will turn 29 in December of this year. It's time for him to take a few steps forward as a leader and as a winning QB in this league. Edge: Big Ben

Tier 1A - Franchise QBs With Something To Prove

Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys: I made up the silly category Tier 1A for guys like Romo, David Garrard, and Marc Bulger. These are QBs who either earn, or will soon earn, top dollar, but in my mind, are not yet quite as accomplished as their brethren above them, or who have had their careers stalled by injuries. Let's start with Romo. Find all the comparison between Big Ben and Tony in this comment thread and decide for yourself. For my money, I'd take Big Ben though I have ample respect for what Romo can do on the field. I'm not one to judge by such a small sample of playoff games (it's for this reason why I think Schottenheimer is given one of the most unfair raps in all of sports), but I still think Romo has got lots to learn and not as much time as Roetlisberger to get it done (let alone experience at this point). Romo did put up huge yardage and TD numbers, but his 19 INTs and 10 fumbles leave plenty of room for Romo to shore up his game. Romo turns 28 in late April. Will he figure it out soon enough to put up big numbers and lead the Cowboys to the Promised Land while he's still in his physical prime? Edge: Big Ben

Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia Eagles: When he's healthy, he still can lead a team as good as anybody. With Chris Webbeter retiring from the NBA yesterday, now might be a good time to compare the two. Both incredible talents who seemed to have everything going for them when they first entered the league. But a string of playoff disappointments, plus injuries, derailed both of their careers from the glorious destinies they seemed to be heading towards. Now, it's not clear if McNabb will ever be able to recover fully enough to lead his team to a SB again and cement himself as one of the better QBs to play in the league in the past 20 years. Instead, he'll likely go down as one of those infamous 'what could have been' type athletes that probably don't get a fair shake when they are judged after the fact. Edge: Roethlisberger (for the future; let's just hope Big Ben can reach the heights Donovan did in his hey-day)

Marc Bulger, St. Louis Rams: Before last year's disastrous season, Bulger had posted only one season with below a 90 QB rating (2003), and 0 seasons with a completion % under 62%. The guy can throw the ball when he has a running game to compliment him and an offensive line that can keep him one piece. It did not in 2008. Did you know that Bulger had 37 sacks in just 12 games last year? Give him a few more games and he most certainly surpasses Big Ben's ridiculous 47 sacks in 2007. Bulger, who makes big bucks, turns 31 next week. I can't see how the Rams are able to stay competitive enough to maximize the next several years of Bulger's career. If they are not, he'll likely be just a mere footnote in the annals of NFL history, a poor man's Drew Brees of sorts. If the Rams are able to keep him upright, Bulger still has the big arm and instinctual prowess in the pocket to post more 3500+ yard seasons, something he's done 3 times in his career compared to just once at this point for Roethlisberger. Still, when you factor in age + mobility + playoff experience, only a fool would select Bulger to lead their organization in 2008 and beyond over Roethlisberger. Edge: Big Ben

David Garrard, Jacksonville Jaguars: I'm awfully hesitant to put David Garrard in this class of QBs based on his skimpy resume, but I'm also willing to acknowledge that in some respects, he's as good a QB as an organization can hope to have outside of the top 2 guys, Manning and Brady. The stats aren't there for Garrard at this point, and given his age, they most likely never will be. But that's more a product of circumstance and opportunity rather than ability. Since been given the chance, Garrad has been oustanding, especially protecting the football. I absolutely abhor the term 'managing games' as a QB - it usually means the QB stinks and can't be trusted to throw the ball. But in Garrard's case, he does actually fit the bill. He's capable of throwing the ball on 3rd down accurately and efficiently, and when nothing's there, he almost robotically decides to turn things back over to his defense rather than taking a sack or throwing a pick, something our boy Roethlisberger has yet to master. In his last 27 games as a starter, Garrard has thrown just 13 picks, including a league low of 3 in 2007. His 7.7 yards per attempt were only .1 fewer than Roethlisberger's and good for 7th best in the league. At 30 years old however, I can't say I'd take him for the long haul. Maybe, for the absolute immediate future, but only if my team was as complete in other departments like Jacksonville's team is. Pittsburgh's is not, meaning we need more big-play capability from our QB, something I believe Roethlisberger holds the advantage over Garrard on. Edge: Big Ben

Matt Hasselback, Seattle Seahawks: Some like Matt's game more than others. I'm not sure precisely how I view him as a QB in this league. Looking at his career stats, I basically conclude that he's a safe, proven commodity, but not necessarily one that's talented enough to single-handedly lead your team to greatness come playoff time or under tough circumstances against the league's best teams. Here's basically what you're going to get out of Hasselback every year: 58-63 completion %, 20-25 TDs, 12-15 INTs, and roughly 3,500 yards passing. Hard to dismiss that type of production over the course of a career, but at the same time, there are no oustanding outliers amongst his season totals. There's no 30+ TD seasons, only one season with a QB rating over 95, and only two for that matter over 90 (including last year, when he posted a 91.4 rating for the year). When we played Hasselback (without Clark or Polamalu mind you), I saw a QB who looked confused, emotionally frustrated, and incapable of stabilizing his team on a day when the group desperately needed some fire and emotional uplifting. Matt turns 33 next season. I imagine he'll continue his solid play for several more years, but I just don't see him as a franchise-savior type QB like Brees, Roethlisberger, Brady and Manning. That said, he's still one of the better QBs in a league filled with mediocre signal callers. Hasselback has led his team to the playoffs for a number of years now, so if we're going by career accomplishments, he belongs near the top for his entire body of work. When selecting for the future however, it's a different story. Edge: Roethlisberger

Star-divide

Tier 2 - Plenty to be optimistic about, but still question marks

Eli Manning, New York Giants: Let's start by giving Manning his due for a phenomenal late season run and for his remarkable poise, consistency, and leadership during the playoffs. If he can carry that type of play over to the regular season in forthcoming years, Manning will quickly catapult himself into Tier 1 in my mind. For now, he's not quite there, even though he deserves tremendous kudos for his durability, having started 48 games in the past three regular seasons. Even with his solid play late last year, Manning still tied for the league lead in picks, and again failed to post a QB rating over 80, something he's yet to do in his 4 year career. He's also failed to complete 60% of his passes for the year yet, or average at least 7 yards per pass attempt. Some of that can be explained by the rough weather he plays in; some can be attributed by the handcuffs his coaching staff put on him earlier in his career; and some can be explained by the fact that Tiki Barber anchored one of the league's best rushing attacks for his first three years in the league. However, that doesn't excuse him of all the poor decisions and bad mechanics he's displayed since being drafted #1 overall and refusing to play in San Diego. Just show us it wasn't a fluke Eli and we'll take you seriously for years to come. Cool? Cool. Edge: Big Ben

Phillip Rivers, San Diego Chargers: Time to make these assesments a bit shorter, now that we're down a bit on the food chain. Rivers has talent, we know that. But his mechanics are funky, his arm strength isn't as good as initially advertised, and he doesn't have the same calm demeanor that is needed at times to successfully lead an NFL offense over the course of an adverity riddled 16 game NFL season. His win-loss record is outstanding. And his wealth of college experience has seasoned him plenty for big moments, as we saw demonstrated in the playoffs and at times in 2006. We'll have to see how he fares as LT is phased out of the offense a smidge over the next 3-5 years. Edge: Big Ben

Matt Schaub, Houston Texans: Who knows. Has looked good at times as a starter, but a huge void in data makes it hard to assess this guy's potential. I'll put him here because he doesn't make a ton of mistakes, has a good command of the huddle, has a decent enough of an arm, and actually has the Texans thinking they're close to breaking through, something I'm not sure was ever possible. Edge: Big Ben

Yet to be determined but worthy of recognition

Vince Young, Tennessee Titans: Young, gaining experience, and much improved as a thrower, despite the hideousness of the statitistics. Bottome line is he's won a lot of games leading a very suspect collection of offensive talent.

Jay Cutler, Denver Broncos: Lots of talent; all the skills; prototypical frame and skill set. Zero history of winning tough tight games though. Denver has plenty to be optimistic about, but it's about time Cutler led a playoff march, even in the tough AFC.

Derek Anderson, Cleveland Browns: An enigma of sorts. Has looked All-World at times and All-Arena League bound at others. He's young and extremely raw. If he gets the mental part of the game down, he should settle in to a long NFL career somewhere. Then again, he might be one of those big-armed QBs (see Jeff George), who jumps from team to team over his career due to teams not quite wanting to invest their long-term future in him at QB.

Jon Kitna, Detroit Lions: Only mentioned because of his competitive spirit. On a one-game basis, he's an accpetable option capable of willing his team to victory. Over the long-haul, he's not consistent enough I don't believe to ever lead a team to sustained excellence over the course of multiple seasons. At his age, we pretty much know what to expect from him: lots of numbers, lots of sacks, plenty of printable quotes, and a losing team record.

********

I'm out of time for now. Who else might deserve to be in one of these tiers. I raced through this due to time constraints, so it's entirely possible I've left out a very obvious name.

0 recs  |  Comment 63 comments

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Nice analysis
That's a pretty good run down of the QB's.  Brees is an interesting (and difficult) comparison.  Brees is very accurate and has to have the best sense of the pocket in the NFL, unless it's Brady.  It's great to watch him calmly take a step this way or that, setting up his blockers to give him more time, and it's pretty hard to argue with his consistency.  If given a choice, I'd have to pick Ben, but mainly because he's younger and I get the sense he's still going to get better.  They are completely different, but roughly equal QB's.  

by BadMaafala on Mar 27, 2008 5:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to know
what Brees and Palmer has ever done to be ranked over Romo, McNabb, Bulger, Hasselbeck and Garrard??

What have they accomplished to be ranked higher and in a separate tier, makes no sense to me.

by Terry on Mar 27, 2008 5:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

garrad, romo
I think they go there because of the low number of career starts for both. Same with Schaub. All three have been great, but the sample size is so small that it seems too much to me to put  them in the same class as guys in their late 20s with closer to a 100 career starts than 25 like the two of them.

by Blitzburgh on Mar 27, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you know
Terry, read the context of the post.  He says MANY times that it's based on right now/the future.  Not past stats.  McNabb would probably be #3 if it was based on past play.  He put up huge numbers.  But the past 2-3 years he hasn't.  Simple as that.

by TheMostViolentTeam on Mar 27, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

although
I slightly disagree on Palmer.  his physical skills are absolutely the best.  he throws the best deep ball in the league.  unbelievable arm.  something is just missing with him.  he reads defenses and everything well he just doesn't seem like a winner.  could just be a product of that awful environment in Cincy also.

by TheMostViolentTeam on Mar 27, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not career accomplishments
I said as much, Terry. If it was career, Donovan and Hasselback go above.

You're somehwat correct though that Palmer belongs in the same class as those guys in Tier 1A. He too has question marks.

But I clearly stated that guys like McNabb and Hasselback have had the best careers, only that they are either older or injury riddled.

As for Brees, his numbers are gawdy, he's missed hardly any games, he;s lead two terrible teams to the playoffs including the NFC title game.

by Blitzburgh on Mar 27, 2008 6:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

IMO
there is Brady and Manning at the super elite level and QBs like Romo, Ben, Brees, Palmer, Hasselbeck, McNabb, Bulger and Garrard are all in the same tier, none are that much better or worse than each other.

Personally, I would rank them as follows, based not on numbers or rings, but just QBs I would want leading my team if I needed a win.

Romo
Hasselbeck
Brees
Garrard
Palmer
Roethlisberger
Bulger
McNabb

by Terry on Mar 27, 2008 11:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What?
Did you just say Garrard over Palmer and Roethlisberger?

by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is tiresome
Obviously Terry has taken too many knocks to his silver and blue chromedome. Each of the seven QBs he listed below Romo would have given the Cowboys a better chance to win a playoff game the past two years. Most of them have already won big games, all of them have more experience and most of them are just flat out more talented. Add to that list guys like Rivers and Manning and even Jeff Garcia who still has something left in the tank and would at least have shown more composure than Romo has displayed when things aren't going his way. Romo has proved nothing yet except he's the best QB currently employed by the Dallas Cowboys. He has talent but has a long way to go before he develops the maturity and consistency required to win playoff games and championships. Right now he is more about style than substance, which is pretty much the defining characteristic of the Dallas Cowboys for the past decade and obviously applies to their fans, too.

Time for Terry to return to his silver and blue playpen.

by steeler lifer on Mar 28, 2008 3:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

+1
Sums it up perfectly: more about style than substance.

by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats really funny
I guess 4200 yards and 36 TDs and 13 wins isn't substance in your book. They're better numbers than Ben so I guess Ben has no substance either, right?

by Terry on Mar 28, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My take on a few guys
I'll start by saying that I'm no quarterback expert. I basically grade a quarterback by how much I fear their abilities when they play my team.

Palmer - He's in danger of being nothing more than just a name, in my opinion. He still has all the tools but I fear his abilities less each time we play the Bengals. That and the fact that he's only guided his team to one winning season during his four years as a starter are enough for me to question his skills as a quarterback and more importantly a leader.

Romo - Until he reels in his game a bit, I'll still think of him as a young Farve. Just keep the game close and he'll give you a cheap turnover before it's over.

Bulger - I've always wondered if he's really a good quarterback or just a product of the environment. Either way, I wouldn't need half a second to pick Big Ben.

Hasselback - I don't know what it is about him but I've never feared Hasselback at all. He just seems like a decent quarterback with absolutely nothing special.

VY - I like him because he's from Texas and he seems like a great, great leader. His performance in the Rose Bowl is one of the greatest single game performance's I've ever seen, but he's shown nothing to make me think he's a NFL quarterback yet.

by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 8:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

eli
Eli won a super bowl and he's teir 2?  Carson Palmer and brees haven't done that and they got teir 1??  Damn no respect!!!!!!!!!! I mean big ben won ONE whats the deal?

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not that stats are everything, but...
I'm not saying Palmer is perfect, but his stats are ridiculous, even this this year.  If you watched Brees, you'd understand why he put him above Derek Anderson.  And if you watched Eli Manning before the '07 playoffs, you're know why he's not in the 1st tier.  He also has a half decent defense, which is a lot more than Brees or Palmer ever had.

by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defense
Well, except that one year in SD.

by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re
Ben won his super bowl on the running game, is it his fault NO he still won it. If a QB has a good Defense thats just more weapons he can use

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

palmer or anderson
I am a browns fan and i would take palmer over D.A.(not a D.A. fan at all) I think he is a one year wonder, i also think Quinn is going to be an EXCELLENT QB in the NFL. but thats only my opinion.

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

eli vs. ben last 3 years
Eli 77-TD's 11385 yards 64 int passer rating 73.4%

Ben 84 TD's 11673 yards 54 int passer rating 92%

Both have one super bowl

both good QB's

with the exception of the passer rating it's pretty close.  So i ask you what makes Ben teir 1 and Eli teir 2?

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

comparison
Why don't you post completion percentage and yards per attempt as well?

by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok
eli 54.7 completion%,6.3 yard per attempt, 199.7 yards per game.

Ben 63.2 completion%, 8.1 yards per attempt, 208.4yards per game.

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there's your answer
I'd love to hear your explanation for how Eli is a comparable quarterback when he's obviously much less accurate despite throwing shorter passes. He's even averaged less passing yards per game despite throwing almost 400 more passes in his career.

You can't even say that Eli is getting better since his interceptions have increased every year he's been a starter. He threw less touchdowns and had a lower QB rating in 07 than he did in either 05 or 06. He didn't set a single career high except for interceptions and passing attempts.

by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
i dont care for either, im just saying maybe ben dont deserve teir 1 or eli should get some more respect (teir 2).

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...
you're saying that with the exception of an average of all the stats, the stats are pretty even?  A 73.4 career QB rating is lousy; 92.5 is fantastic.  

by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

look
all im saying is MAYBE cause this is a steelers site ben got bumped up higher than he deserves OR Eli isn't getting the respect he deserves. if i needed a qb for next year i would pick ben over Eli but i would also pick Eli over mcnabb, bulger,and hasslebeck.

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We hear you
We've heard your opinion and we've given you numerous stats along with our opinion as to why we don't agree with you. Unless you have some facts or stats or anything more than "well this is what I think," you're not going to change anyone's view.

It is kind of comforting that a division rival would favor a marginal-at-best quarterback over other Pro Bowl level players.

by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

opinion
I'm not trying to change your opinion even if it is a bias one, I think ben is a GOOD qb (better than Eli).

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
For the most part Eli has some of the largest upside.  He's shown that he can get it done in the biggest games.  He's still scatterbrained and occasionally jaw-droppingly awful, but if you're building a team around talent you've got to include Eli in the mix at the top.  

I see what you're saying though Blitz.  If he shows almost anything in the next season he'll get an auto-bump in just about everyone's rankings.  His play in the superbowl was impressive, but he still tried to give the game away a few times (paging Asante Samuel's usually good hands, are you in the building?).  

All told I'd put him up above Garrad, Hasslebeck, and McNabb at this point.  

by Chicago Steeler on Mar 28, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re: agreed
What has garrad provin? the only thing i can see that he has provin is that he is a Great backup and deserves to be a starter which he has gotten. Thats it! Yes he had a great year but one great year proves nothing.

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

come on
Eli played well for four games to get his team a ring but that doesn't replace four seasons of poor play. His career QB rating is below 75. He's never had a season with a completion percentage above 58% or a yards per attempt above 7. All that and he's thrown at least 17 interceptions every season he's been a full-time starter.

In Brees' 6 seasons as a starter he's only had one with a QB rating below 75, one with a completion % below 60, and three seasons with a yards per attempt over 7. Oh yea and he's thrown more touchdowns and less interception than Eli for every season that Eli has been a starter.

Palmer has never had a season with a QB rating below 77, a completion percentage below 60, and only his rookie season did his yards per attempt go below seven. With the same numbers of seasons as a starter Palmer's TD/INT ratio (104-63) blows Eli out of the water (77-64).

Sure Eli won a Super Bowl and thats a hell of an acomplishment but that doesn't mean he's a great quarterback. Fact is, without that on his resume he's probably down in the "Yet to be determind" tier.

by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok
So does Ben deserve being a teir 1 then?

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

are you kidding me?
Ben's never had a season with a QB rating below 75, his 06 season was the only one with a completion percentage below 60 (59.7), and he's never had a season with his yards per attempt below 7. Oh yea and even with his horrible '06 his career TD/Int ratio is 84-54.

Bottom Line: Ben and Eli don't even compare.

by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

teir 1+2
not to piss any steelers fans off but i dont think ben is a teir 1 QB, BUT he is well on his way.

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cutler vs Big Ben
I like Big Ben and have respect for him but you stated Cutler has "Zero history of winning tough tight games though"

How about the game versus Denver?

Where Denver won 31-28 kicking a FG as time expired?  How is that not a tight game??

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap?game_id=29296&displayPage=tab_recap&season=2007&week =REG7&override=true

Elam is an obvious choice, as many in Denver might consider him the MVP of this team, but Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler completed 22 of 29 passes for 248 yards and three touchdowns. Cutler also had two interceptions, but the key was that Cutler didn't let the interceptions get to him. Cutler was good when he needed to be, including on the final drive, when he guided the Broncos into range for the game-winning kick.

by cutlerfan on Mar 28, 2008 11:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

cutler
That was ONE game and Ben had 290 yards and 4 td's. Cutler wasn't even the best qb in that game.

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Denver Game
It helped that Culter got spotted 14 points in that game, but I really do think Cutler is going to be a very good QB.  He's played well without a great supporting cast (kinda like Vandy).  It'd just be hard to put him in the top tier for the same reason it's hard to Schaub in the top tier; they're young QB's who have played well, but haven't done anything amazing yet (like beat the 49ers, win their first 15 games or win the SB).  Despite the turnovers, Culter might be the most promising young QB in the league; he's just not a pro-bowler yet.  I'd take him over Young and Leinart, though, and I'd be happy that the hardest position to fill should be locked up for the next 15 years.  

by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree
I think Cutler is definitely the best young QB (3 yrs experience or less).

by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cutler?
best young QB? What about Vince Young?

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

VY's barely even a QB in my opinion
Before I say this I want to get it out there that I'm a VY fan. He's from Texas and might be the best college player that I've ever seen. I hope he develops into a great quarterback but:

He was an amazing college QB and had an offense that couldn't have been more tailored to his skill set, but he's not a pro quarterback. He had a piss poor rookie season by nearly every measurable season except for wins and he followed it up with a season in which he threw 9 TD and 17 INTs (and he had half as many rushing TDs to lower his overall total even more). He's a great leader but not even an average QB yet.

by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

some other good young qb's
first of all young means still unproven, but here are some other young QB's

D.A.

Schaub

Rivers

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

others
Schaub and Rivers have each been in the league four years, which is why I said 3 or less. But I'd take Cutler over Schaub without even thinking twice but I know I have a lower opinion of Shaub.

Rivers and DA are both really close. I'd have to seen another season of DA before I put him above Cutler though. I'd probably say push on Rivers.

by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

young QB's
They could all be pretty good, but I'd put my money on Cutler right now, or Schaub if he can stay healthy next year.  VY is an option QB, and it's unlikely he'll grow into much more.  He has brought the team together, but looking at his numbers, I'd say the defense has done more to win games.  We should see the first real action of Aaron Rodgers this year (finally), who could enter the ranks of top young QB's as well, especially since he now has a good supporting cast and has had a mild transition into the NFL.  

by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree
i know that schaub and rivers been in the league for 4 years, but they haven't started for 3 years that the only reason i included them.

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 12:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

unknown
Can't wait to see what Quinn can do no matter wher it happens.

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eli vs. Big Ben, Giants perspective
As the Giants blogger here at SBN, the subject of Eli vs. Big Ben is obviously one we have covered extensively.

I have no real objection to you preferring Roethlisberger to Manning at this point. While it is very close, I came to the same conclusion in a recent post on the subject.

My problem with your entire post is that Eli, considering what he just did for the Giants, has to be in your Tier 1A -- if not higher.

To put him below Garrard, Bulger, Hasselbeck and a fading McNabb is dumbfounding. I don't know if it's ignorance, stupidity, or stubbornly clinging to the belief that he isn't very good, but he belongs higher on your list.

Also, I'm fine with you saying Big Ben is a franchise guy. But, you can't say Drew Brees is and Eli isn't. Eli performed as well as anyone ever has during a playoff run.

He outplayed Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo and Brett Favre on the road, then outplayed Tom Brady in the Super Bowl.

Don't insult the guy and David Garrard is a better player. Give me a break!

Ed

Big Blue View

by ETVal on Mar 28, 2008 1:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

big blue
I totally agree with that

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here we go again, but...
Do four good games make a top 5 QB?  I have to say I was impressed by Eli's run (although you'd have been calling for his head if the richest CB in the country held onto the damn ball).  If those were his first 4 starts, I'd be ready to crown him the best young QB ever.  However, if you took away those 4 games, the Giants very well might be cutting their former 1st overall pick.  He's been a lousy QB with a fairly talented team.  

I think there is a good chance that Eli builds on the SB run and truly becomes a top 5ish QB, but there's no guarantee that he won't turn back to his old ways.  He's done it before after putting together a nice stretch.  Part of me is actually rooting for the guy to be a good QB, but you need more than a hot streak to be considered an elite QB.  You, like CulterLover, come back in a year or two.  We already have an elite QB.  

by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ben
Eli has done the same thing as Ben but he didnt do it with AS good numbers. But since this is a Steelers site you pittsburgh fans thinks he is a god, which he is not by far.  I think Ben is a good QB but he isnt ELITE neither is Eli.  This site should be called BIASbehindthesteelcurtain.

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stats
If SB's are all that matter and wins and stats don't, then Dan Marino was just an average QB, and Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer have had as good of careers as Peyton Manning and Brett Favre.  Ben has his faults, and he's no Manning (the older) or Brady, but he did go 15-1 as a rookie, win the SB the next year (largely by his own doing, see: Colts game), and finish with the second highest QB rating (ahead of Manning) this year despite having a terrible OL and coordinator (thanks for him, btw).  Maybe saying he's the 3rd best in the league isn't objective, but saying he's in the top 5 is, which still qualifies as elite to me.  

I didn't realize you were an authority on bias.  

by BadMaafala on Mar 28, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

5 is elite?
there are only TWO elite QB's in the whole league Brady and P. Manning. There is a big gap between elite and the rest.

by bereadawg on Mar 28, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eli
I agree that Eli played great, absolutely great, for a four game stretch but that doesn't change by opinion about his first four seasons in the NFL. He may come out next year and pick up right where he left off in the playoffs but until I see him duplicate that production over a full season, he's still just an average quarterback, IMO. He hasn't progressed to this point in his career. His QB rating and touchdown total were the lowest since his rookie season and he set a career high in interceptions.  Again I'm not saying that Eli won't become a really good quarterback and I'm not arguing his greatness over a four game stretch in the playoffs, he's just not there yet.

Garrard vs. Eli - Here's a stat just to chew on, Garrard thrown less interceptions over his 30 NFL starts than Eli has thrown in any full season. I'm not saying....I'm just saying.

by cgolden on Mar 28, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To Big Blue and others
Don't tell me that before that playoff run that there weren't plenty of Giants fans and football fans in general who weren't ready to throw Eli under the bus. Prior to this year there was talk that he would be a big, fat bust. Now it remains to be seen if he has passed a threshold or falls back to mediocrity.

As for Ben. When he won fifteen straight games as a rookie everyone (outsiders) were saying it wasn't about him, he was being carried by a very good football team. When he led that historic (Yes, historic. Sixth seed to world champion. Who else has done that?)run to the SB including two magnificent performances AT Indianapolis (clearly outplayed Manning) and AT Denver (put up 24 in the first half with no running game to speak of), then the knock was his performance in the SB was subpar. Who won that damn game anyway? In his third year his performance drops due to a car accident and losing his appendix and he's labeled a fraud. Regains form this year, is second ranked qb in the league behind a suspect o-line and is considered over-rated as a top tier qb. Listen NYC, Cleveland, Dallas; the man is for real. You heard it here first.

by RickVa on Mar 28, 2008 4:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Plenty of Giants fans?
I think I can name at least one Giants fan who was ready to throw Eli under a bus.

by HinesField on Mar 30, 2008 6:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wow
Nice find man.

That's f'n hysterical.

by Blitzburgh on Mar 31, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Until
your qb goes 15-1 in his rookie season, wins three games on the road in the playoffs as a huge underdog, is the youngest qb to win the SuperBowl, tackles a car with his face in the off season and doesn't miss training camp and goes on to the Pro Bowl behind a crappy offensive line.........stop yapping. Ben is the baddest man to play qb since someone named Favre and may surpass his marks. Roethlisberger's intangibles put him ahead of any and all of the qbs mentioned in this thread.
I wasn't hired for my disposition!

by Burgernazi on Mar 31, 2008 12:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

+1
You forgot to mention that year (2006) he had 23 interceptions. Don't get ahead of yourself Ben is no Brett Farve.

by bereadawg on Mar 31, 2008 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brett Favre
is the all-time interceptions leader as well as all of the other good records.  And, I'm not knocking Brett, he's one of my favorites, but using that to say he's no Brett Favre is kind of ironic. :)

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 31, 2008 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

....hold on
no no, i wasnt using that to say he no brett favre. i just thought it was funny that was left out.  

by bereadawg on Mar 31, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's ok :)
I just thought it was funny because that's Brett's one knock on him.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 31, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Brett Favre
Ben has about 13 more years to go before he can discussed in the same terms as Brett Favre, unless he wins a couple more SBs in the next 5-8 years.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 31, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

13 years
and alota yards......There may NEVER be another Brett tho.

by bereadawg on Mar 31, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tough
My only meaning in my reference to Favre is Ben's toughness. Ben is the ONLY qb I have watched in the last 10 years that approaches the toughness of Favre (Kitna is a tough S.O.B. but we are discussing elite qbs, not journeymen). By comparison, did you see Brady's eyes misting up after being hit in the SB? He was glaring at teammates and rattled by the Giants rush and looked like a five year old girl who lost her dolly. That amount of contact for Ben meant the o-line played better than normal!
I wasn't hired for my disposition!

by Burgernazi on Mar 31, 2008 5:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

good pts
Big Ben is a warrior and yes, it was nice seeing Tom Terrific tear up upon contact. If his line wasnt so solid and if he wasnt so adept at getting rid of it quickly, he probably would have sustained an injury or two by now, because he's definitely not a huge guy.

by Blitzburgh on Mar 31, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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